The UK is likely to have a substantial surplus of vaccine doses over home needs, thanks to its early and substantial actions to help firms develop and produce them including placing advance orders. The UK success also included working with Astra Zeneca who came up with the cheapest vaccine on offer and promised to sell it profit free, thanks to the UK taxpayer backing the project in its early days. It is perhaps understandable that some other countries, some higher charging companies and the EU are jealous of this success.
The UK took a big risk, as no-one could be sure which companies if any would succeed when the UK made investments and offered contracts. As a result of good choices the UK will have substantial supplies of vaccines from other companies as well as Astra. This will allow the UK to offer many millions of doses of various vaccines to others. The issues arise, which countries should we choose and on what basis should the additional vaccines be supplied?
There is a case to be made to supply some of our surplus free of charge to low income countries who did not have the rich country advantages of a strong domestic industry to develop the products, or the cash to forward order in quantity. This would be a good use of our overseas aid budget, paying for the vaccines from that source. It is difficult to see why we should similarly supply free to any higher income country that would like our diverted orders. There is a case for charging them what they cost us. Some might argue we should charge them a higher market price. In the case of Astra product that would raise the issue should any part of a UK taxpayer profit be shared with Astra who otherwise have a break even price, and might raise issues for Astra about their promises over general pricing and supply. There is also the issue of what criteria we should use to select the countries that we help. I suspect many UK taxpayers would be unhappy to help any country that had recently imposed trade bans, restrictions or sanctions on us or who had tried to undermine the reputation of Astra product. I would be interested in views.
March 30, 2021
There is a case for charging developed, wealthy nations more to recoup some return on the investment for AZ and help our balance of trade.
It would surely still be cheaper than the Pfizer jab?
March 30, 2021
âŠ.and the leaders of the so called economic 3rd world still drive round in rolls royce and fly in private jets, have large military budgets and plans for the moonâŠ.its all about choice â theyâre waiting for the handout while robbing their own nation
March 30, 2021
You appear to be confusing the actions of psychotic, demonic, evil, sadistic political leaders with the private citizens who have to suffer living in those nations governed by these creatures. If we choose to punish the private citizen of those nations led by these animals who indulge in this form of vicious politics then that makes us no better than the the political leaders who see an opportunity to exploit for gain even when the event is one in which peoples lives are at risk. This sadly, is now the world in which we live. A world in which political control over others trumps morality each and every time
I have become convinced over the last twenty years or so that most political leaders are dangerously sadistic concealing their lust for pleasure from punishing others behind the veneer of virtue signalling. This fascist politics will destroy our world. We see it all around us today. We now see it on an almost daily basis in the UK.
I still believe the average Tory MP is a decent, moral human being but most are now cowed by Marxist Brownshirt thug intimidation that they hide their true opinions as a form of self protection and only choose to express an opinion on issues that they know won’t trigger a violent or thuggish response from the fascist left. That leaves us all open to blackmail
March 30, 2021
So is the first qualification for help from the UK, having a despotic regime in charge, who would make sure they were the first to profit. No, family come first.
March 30, 2021
WE would not be punishing the people of our rich neighbours who have shown their hate for us and disregard for the lives of OUR people recently if we did not gift them any excess vaccine, THEIR governments would be punishing them. Yes, Iâm thinking France and Ireland specifically, both with regard to Brexit where their actions for 5 years have been to damage us, and for COVID where French politicians have been vehement in their outpourings born of their jealousy.
March 31, 2021
The southern Irish seem to have a love hate relationship with us Brits/English but just on Brexit their politicians had good reason to fear the economic damage it could potentially cause to the Republic.
This is from last October:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/irish-food-trade-could-slide-by-one-third-if-eu-and-uk-fail-to-cut-deal-1.4368738
“Irish food trade could slide by one-third if EU and UK fail to cut deal”
But long before that Ireland had been identified as the country which would be most severely damaged if the UK defaulted to WTO terms of trade:
https://order-order.com/2019/03/06/german-economists-no-deal-will-hit-ireland-three-times-harder-uk/
“Germanyâs prestigious IFO Institut has crunched the numbers on the economic impact of no deal on 44 countries and predicted that Ireland would be hit three times harder than the UK by a no-deal Brexit, taking a massive 8.16% hit to their economy.”
But given the way that both Theresa May and Boris Johnson caved into their unreasonable demands there was really no need for Irish politicians to get so aggressive and start hinting at a renewal of IRA terrorism, we could have come to a reasonable agreement which if nothing else could have given the Irish economy a soft landing over a long transition period.
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
I agree Dom.
March 30, 2021
A major reason given by the government for the imposition of the lockdown measures was to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed. There is no danger of it being overwhelmed now. Why are we still in lockdown?
March 30, 2021
Because governments lie, James 1.
The really interesting question would be why so many people believe them.
March 30, 2021
“Why are we still in lockdown?”
Your MPs voted for it because they are brain dead.
But do not worry, they all think the Great Resest – World Econom Forum – Klaus Schwaab will save us all.
WAKE UP PEOPLE
March 30, 2021
Are we nearly there?
Are we nearly there?
Are we nearly there?
And so forth.
April 3, 2021
Injection of experimental concoctions can only happen under emergency powers. If the lockdown is released then the legality of the emergency will be void. No more jabs. We have, for the past 12 months, been saturated with propaganda which has resulted in the general population being scared beyond the point of rational thought. I could go on, but you get the general idea I trust.
March 30, 2021
To what extent should the citizens of a state be blamed for the bad actions of their government, or conversely be given credit for its good actions? As France is a democratic state, should condemnation of the irresponsible comments made by their elected President about the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine apply to all French citizens, so that we would be justified in refusing to supply that or any other vaccine to help save their lives?
March 31, 2021
We answered this question in 1944 when we and our allies invaded France to relieve them of the embarrasment of retreat, capitulation, and collaberation with the ethnic cleansing nazis. The politicos of France have never forgiven us for exposing their behaviour 1939-1945 said while acknowledging the bravery of many individual frenchmen and the suffering of the people under nazi occupation.
March 30, 2021
It is about having influence. We cannot hope to change these regimes and, given our past record, I am not too sure we should even if we can.
I see no reason to punish individuals just because they are unfortunate enough to be born into poverty and / or living under harsh rule. This global tragedy is an opportunity for the UK to put its global foot forward. That said, I do not believe that we should be giving these vaccines free or at a loss.
March 30, 2021
I would indeed be ” unhappy to help any country that had recently imposed trade bans, restrictions or sanctions on us or who had tried to undermine the reputation of Astra product”. (I would add that “unhappy” is a polite, mild word to select in this context.)
The Evil Empire should not be assisted at all, except perhaps the Republic of Ireland but only if that is necessary to help protect the U.K. and then a full commercial price should be charged.
Let us give preference to those countries in serious difficulty from Covid and otherwise to fellow Commonwealth countries.
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
I would only be prepared to be generous to Ireland if the current government is fully cooperative in sorting out the unmitigated disaster caused by the insistence by Brussels and Varadkar in weaponising the GFA.
As for France and Germany, what is the point in sending A-Z vaccine when they already have millions sitting on the shelves unused ? As they clearly don’t like the A-Z vaccine, they should get nothing from the UK.
Any EU country we do decide to help, needs to be charged enough to recuperate at least some of the investment we have made in developing it. That money should go back to A-Z to fund further research and expansion of the UK’s own vaccine production.
March 30, 2021
Indeed, but we should certainly supply vaccine on the strict condition that it is put to use in the most effective way into arms as quickly as possible,. single shot first with second shots delayed until all vulnerable groups have been done. Also that men are vaccinated about 5 years younger than women as risk and logic dictates. In the UK the failure to do this has killed about 1000+ so far. Still increasing still at about 3 people per day. Just because JCVI and MPs idiotically had âno desireâ to save these 1000+ lives is no reason to allow an extra 50,000+ deaths to occur worldwide due to the same negligence being repeated.
It seems that in denying some people ICU treatment the NHS did indeed use the higher male risk from Covid and age to justify non treatment. Heads you lose, tails you lose for men it seems with UK healthcare.
March 31, 2021
All a bit hysterically hyperbolic considering this is a virus that is of no real risk to over 99 per cent of a population – and especially those under the age of 50. Also LL seems to be confusing the deaths ”with” covid (ie a questionably positive test within 28 days) and those ”from” the virus, a number that is negligible.
March 30, 2021
We also need to consider offering free vaccines for Europeans that want to work in key essential short term posts in the EU farming sector, nursing and other key industries/jobs.
As for the republic of Ireland yes to anyone wishing to travel around the UK, otherwise their government is always lording it over the UK in the press each week, they stopped our drivers going there with deliveries only certain HGV’s are allowed and they insist on two weeks quarantine before you can deliver and a PSA test. Let’s stop thinking the Republic of Ireland are friends to the UK they are not at the moment.
March 30, 2021
Why should the Irish Republic get special treatment? It is an enthusiastic member of the EU, it treats us in the same agressive way and never backs away from anti-UK propaganda.
March 30, 2021
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/common-travel-area-guidance
We could change it.
March 30, 2021
Give surplus doses to Liz Truss, in her capacity as Equalities Minister.
March 30, 2021
The Republic of Ireland should only be helped on conditions that they stop this stupidity over the border and start behaving like grown ups.
The EU should not even be given consideration.
March 30, 2021
The Irish government can only get away with it because the UK government lets them get away with it, and the UK government can only get away with letting the Irish government get away with it because almost all Tory MPs are content to let the UK government get away with it …
Here is part of a reply I had from one of them:
“… it is my personal view that the TCA is a good deal for the UK as it ensures there are no tariffs or quotas for trade in goods between the UK and the EU.”
The reality is that the average tariff that would be imposed on UK exports to the EU is so low that the gain for the UK would be negligible to trivial even if we were running a trade surplus in goods with the EU rather than a stonking great chronic deficit:
https://briefingsforbritain.co.uk/for-the-last-time-an-eu-trade-deal-isnt-worth-it-for-the-uk/
and the country which will benefit most from the trade deal is not the UK but Ireland, because the UK tariffs of their meat and dairy exports could be very high, as the Irish Central Bank notes here:
https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/quarterly-bulletins/boxes/qb1-2021/box-c-the-eu-uk-trade-and-cooperation-agreement.pdf
“The agreement preserves the zero tariff and quota free trade in goods that existed under EU membership and goes beyond EU free trade agreements with Canada or Japan by allowing for tariff and quota-free access on all goods that comply with the appropriate rules of origin. This is especially important for exposed sectors such as agri-food. Without the agreement, exports of certain meat or dairy products would have faced tariffs above 40 per cent under WTO rates.”
March 31, 2021
I am not so sure that stupidity over the Irish border emmanates from Ireland. It seems to concentrate in Brussels where it was devised as a means of causing us maximum difficulty after Brexit. The UK was stupid in accepting such a manufactured minefield.
March 30, 2021
The sooner we realise that ‘our friends in Brussels’ are not ‘our friends in Brussels’ (or at least not yet) the better. Unfortunately but predictably there is a coterie of unelected elite bureaucrats in Brussels who see it as their mission to try to punish the UK for having the temerity to leave their monstrous construction. Far from accommodating them we should push back until they see sense or are replaced by people who see sense.
March 31, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
Nobody wants our assistance because they know it will come with conditions- not Ireland not France- they know us too well
March 30, 2021
Billb , the same France that is threatening to stop British expats in France to take a French driving licence because the French leader is such a jolly good fellow who doesnât put in lots of conditions against the U.K. at all. Every day we read of one French threat or another, yet we allow their exports to flow in freely and their drivers untested.
The same Ireland who expect British people to quarantine in Ireland for two weeks even though they can travel freely, so much for a common travel area. It is time we did put in these âconditionsâ you accuse us of, if weâre gonna get strung up anyway.
March 31, 2021
It would be good if some MP asked why truck drivers coming from Ireland are exempt from having to take a Covid test while there is no reciprocal exemption for our drivers entering Ireland.
March 30, 2021
Sometimes the question should be asked – what are their own Governments doing to help their people! In some Countries, there have been years of conflict and Civil War. If they had a decent government, and were well run, they could have set up companies to make some vaccines themselves.
It sometimes seems, that we are the âbad guysâ in the world, until they want something, and then it is to us they turn, often with very little thanks, and much criticism.
March 30, 2021
There is no likely about it. We will have vast quantities of surplus vaccines.
We need around 100m doses of vaccine to jab all adults twice. We have bought 500m. This is not down to âgood choicesâ as you call it. It was down to desperation.
In the middle of last year the government was doing so appallingly badly with Covid they literally spaffed our money up a wall buying vast quantities of just about every vaccine they could -and paying too much for it too.
As a result we have ordered far more vaccines than we need all at an unnecessarily high price. Effectively we are hoarding it – stopping other countries getting supplies they need.
It is, perhaps, the most appalling thing the government has done during this pandemic because this strategy guarantees people will needlessly die in other countries. They will not be able to get their jabs because we have bought too many.
The AstraZeneca jab is also the result of a global effort. The EU and US put money into it too. The notion that we have done something unusual is simply not true. It will also ultimately make AZ a handsome profit. Its commitment to sell on a not for profit basis extends only for the duration of the pandemic. Though AZâs appalling behaviour has guaranteed that many countries will not want to deal with it. Canada is the latest to restrict use of its jab.
The behaviour of the U.K. and US in particular over vaccines has been appalling. You do not beat a global pandemic by hoarding and by only looking after your own. We have exported no vaccines. EU countries have exported 80m vaccines. 20m of them to us. That needs to stop.
Europe needs to understand the Conservative Party and its supporters are not its friends – they are its enemies. Many elderly Tory voters will have only had one dose of their Pfizer jab so far -and Europe should no stop exporting Pfizer, preventing them having their second doses, until the UK supplies AstraZeneca as ordered. UK vaccine strategy is to let people die in other countries, including in Europe. Their strategy should be the same to us.
March 30, 2021
Coincidentally, that number of shots that the UK has bought is enough to vaccinate the whole of the European Union’s adults.
Curious that, isn’t it?
It’s interesting what you can get if you waive liability too.
March 30, 2021
Canada is not restricting use of the AZ vaccine because of what you call AZâs âappalling behaviourâ.
March 30, 2021
Andy, This morning you have outdone yourself : your comment is nothing more than a tissue of lies and half-truths.
Is there nothing you have to say about our country that is positive and goes anywhere near making up for the expense and time spent educating and nurturing you ?
In fact, I have to ask, are you actually British ?
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
You can be English without being British- it’s what this diary is about
March 30, 2021
Actually Billb perhaps you didnât go to an English school, we were all taught we were British with a Union Jack Flag, none of this anti-Welsh or anti-Scottish nonsense that other nations in the United Kingdom were taught.
March 30, 2021
I deliberately didn’t ask whether Andy was English, I asked if he was British.
By British, I mean a citizen of the United Kingdom which is the entity that seems to upset Andy so much.
March 30, 2021
Yes first came England and with Wales became Britain
Then in 1707 was joined by Scotland became Great Britain
Then in 1800/1801 joined with Ireland became the UK of GB and Ireland
In 2021/22 was renamed UK of GB and NI
so take your pick
March 30, 2021
ChrisS, your comments about this “Andy” are so on-target. I couldn’t believe what 100 octane garbage this bloke is spouting.
For a start the EU exported nothing/nil/zilch to the UK. AZ signed a contract for manufacture with a private enterprise company who happened to be located in an EU country.
That company then supplied under the terms of a private contract – the EU had not the slightest involvement until those idiots threatened to interfere with the arms-length contractual arrangements between two private companies.
March 31, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
You are so transparent. Your judgement (lack of) solely based on your anger you cannot enjoy your house in France. Pure self interest.
March 30, 2021
The EU has pre-purchased 2.6 billion doses of vaccine so far and are still negotiating to buy more. Their population is 400 million. So they are “hoarding” far more than UK. So let’s wait and see them give their away first shall we ?
The UK has donated $735m to the Covax scheme to buy vaccines for poor countries. The entire EU (bar Germany) has donated $439m. Typically tight-fisted and mean-spirited.
As you are well over 50 Andy I assume you’ve been vaccinated. My relatives in the EU of the same age haven’t. You should be thankful for Brexit.
I think when we have spare vaccine we should donate it to the Republic of Ireland – the border there is open and it is in our mutual interest to take over vaccination from the bungling EU.
March 30, 2021
Nobody is phyiscally ‘hoarding’ anything, they’re like us, they have just negotiated an ‘option’ to buy……its all on paper
March 30, 2021
I am not over 50. I have not had the vaccine. I have not been invited to have the vaccine.
On a trip out today I saw lots of elderly people – obviously all vaccinated – ignoring social distancing, ignoring 2m, not wearing masks etc etc etc.
They are okay now so they donât care about anyone else. The entitled generation at its most entitled – risking the lives of younger people who have made a genuine sacrifice over the last year.
March 30, 2021
You are under 50, yet you went somewhere where there were ‘lots’ of elderly people, without masks, whom you ‘know’ had been vaccinated….
Was it one of those raves that I keep reading about, where police have to step in and break them up? Were they all high on cocoa, while dancing to Edmundo Ros records?
March 30, 2021
Iâd have to say you are simply lying – to support your tiresome ageism. My observation at the beach yesterday was lots of people of all ages behaving pretty much as normal. I think most people are just fed up with the nonsensical lockdowns and are beginning to revert to normal behaviour regardless of the inane government. Over the last year, if anyone has clearly broken the rules it has been young people. And I am very happy for them to love their lives as normal. Apart from, of course, freedom of movement. They must be denied what I have enjoyed for most of my adult life.
April 3, 2021
If you catch it, being under 50, your risk is 99.7% survival. Maybe stay at home if you think it’s too much of a riskđđ
March 30, 2021
Your comment is bang on target, Roy. Well said!
March 30, 2021
If the saintly EU has been exporting vaccines to countries outside its borders, why are Poland and Hungary (EU members) having to run to Moscow to ask for the Sputnik jab?
March 30, 2021
And may I add that the Slovakian PM has had to resign, as he ‘acquired’ 2 million Sputnik vaccine doses without notifying his coalition partners or the public????? And half his cabinet has now resigned.
March 30, 2021
When the pandemic first started it was “Not enough PPE ! Not enough PPE !” Now we’re winning in the vaccine battle it’s “Too much vaccine ! Too much vaccine !”
Meanwhile the EU hoards millions of doses of AZ vaccine having lied to their people that it was dangerous (in order to hobble Brexit Britain) and China makes vast profit selling us face masks and rubber gloves.
There is a haughty white, middle class, left-of-centre bunch of snobs who have an instinctive hatred of of country and countrymen and who will never say a good thing about us and whose every interpretation sides with other nations – without realising it those are who we voted against when we voted for Brexit. We didn’t vote against the EU but against the English middle class Left who abused our membership.
Well done !
March 30, 2021
All government’s have done “appallingly badly” if the criteria are applied equally, but at least the UK government, whether in desperation or not, decided to do whatever was necessary to protect its citizenry, including risking money on vaccines that might never be delivered.
Having now a surplus, although a much smaller one that you imagine as it is likely that top-up re-vaccination will become a feature of our lives for some time, I do not believe that the first recipients of our largesse should be wealthy countries that failed to take similar action to the UK and instead think that they should be able to seize the intellectual or physical property of others.
There is an argument for us being more generous to Ireland, as we share a land border, and also perhaps to Poland as many UK residents have family ties there, but in the main our generosity should be focussed on our poorer Commonwealth friends with whom we have long standing relationships.
March 30, 2021
As you feel so strongly about it perhaps you should protect yourself from any ethical taint by boycotting this iniquitous UK vaccination programme. But you need to consider that if you refused to be vaccinated and died of Covid then your mum might miss you, even if nobody else was much bothered … and please do not come whining and complaining to the rest of us if you do catch it, a problem I see looming in the future.
March 30, 2021
Andy, what proof do you have that we are ‘hoarding’ vaccines? I do not believe we are hoarding because the program is not rolling out as quickly now as doses that could be given are being held up for the necessary second doses for our over 70’s. Really you hate your Country you never have a good word to say about anything, even our successful vaccination program. If we have bought too much we can sell it on at a slight profit if necessary to equally wealthy nations. Buying stock and selling it to people that require that is how business works every day.
We saw France and Germany hoard PPE at the start of this crisis were you out condemning all the nations that did that? No you weren’t.
March 30, 2021
As a result we have ordered far more vaccines than we need all at an unnecessarily high price. ???
I think you will find that by ordering much more than we needed, we were actually assuring a much lower price (close to cost price) and securing many more jabs than we need for our own population. This gives us the benefit of now being able to choose whether to supply other countries that cannot afford to pay a full commercial price.
March 30, 2021
Andy, you are bonkers!
Our government ordered a large quantity of vaccines which, at the time, did not exist. All were still being developed. This is called sensible hedging of one’s bets and I praise the government for their foresight.
It was always the government’s intention to supply the surplus to poorer nations. Your beloved EU are rattled purely because they did not have the foresight our great country did. It must have hurt their massive egos a lot.
I hope we supply our surplus to our commonwealth friends first and then other poorer nations.
Sir John, I am concerned that those of us with suppressed immune systems appear to have little protection due to the length of time between jabs. It would appear that our government took notice of an egotistical former PM rather than the manufacturer. What are your thoughts?
March 30, 2021
I could list quite a lot of words to describe what Andy is intent on doing on this blog, and also to describe what I think of him. Suffice to say my occasional few lines suggesting all is not above board in this Government and indeed prior ones, get the red pen treatment.
Sir John rarely allows more than a slight rebuke against members of his party even when not named, yet the insane vitriol expressed on here continues unabated.
March 30, 2021
You should get your jab from the EU Sndy, 2022 perhaps.
March 30, 2021
Wow, what an amazingly warped interpretation reality. It looks like the best courses of action would be to do the exact opposite of whatever you advocate.
March 30, 2021
Will you ever have anything good to say about the UK?
March 30, 2021
You âll be giving up your two doses then, Andy?
March 30, 2021
Your first question is one I would ask charities demanding our generosity for fresh water systems and protection for abandoned children. I can see the need but think that the countries in which such happens should be villified at the UN and in the TV pleas.
March 30, 2021
@CG; “In some Countries, there have been years of conflict and Civil War.”
Conflict and Civil War doesn’t just happen, for example, are you suggesting the UK should not supply vaccines to the Red Crescent for use in Iraq, Libya and Syria for example, what about some parts of ex-colonial Africa, the Palestinian areas of the Middle East?
March 30, 2021
No, Iâm suggesting that their governments should start governing in the interests of their people. Whats the problem with that?
March 31, 2021
@CG; What governments (in the case of Iraq, Libya and Syria)?!
March 30, 2021
The UK is not a charity and most people do not care much about anyone outside their family . That is why we have a Conservative Party. So what we do not need is a Government pontificating about helping Africa in the middle of a vaccine trade war their own founding principle brought about. If we have to schmooze our larger neighbour a bit , it is the least of our worries.
It cannot be stated enough that it is inconceivable that the UK Government would have handed control of its vaccine programme to Europe and inside the EU there would be no problem in the first place . The years of bile poured onto our erstwhile friends have of course , not helped. Sadly that mistake has been made . Start from where we are and just do whatever has to be done , the rest of it is waffle .
March 30, 2021
Newmania, regarding your first sour sentence: I first became actively involved with local Conservative politics in the mid-1980’s. One of the things that struck me as I got to know more about the ‘foot soldiers’ was just how many were closely involved in voluntary work for the community in one way or another, and had been for many years. School governors, charity shop workers, unpaid members of NHS committees, advisory or management members of community institutions – all of that in a constituency and wider area that was rapidly becoming more marginal as far as the Conservatives were concerned.
March 30, 2021
I care very much about people (family or not). That is why I am so keen to avoid socialism, to have far lower simpler taxes, to protect the family, stop the moronic war on CO2 plant food, deal with our second rate state healthcare and education systems, to encourage self reliance and and have a bonfire of red tape.
Alas this Conservative party is now just Socialism light, indeed not even very light really with Boris, tax to death Sunak and this counter productive lockdown.
March 30, 2021
Well, if it’s a choice between socialism-light and full-blooded socialism, which do you choose?
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
I have, in my life frequently noticed that people who do “good things ” in a public sense, are if anything more rapacious dishonest and happy to trample on anyone in their way than the rests of us. Far from sour, I consider the decidedly fallen nature of man a source of endless amusement .
March 30, 2021
@Newmania
That says more about you than it does about them. Because MOST people that do involve themselves in local politics – on a voluntary basis – do it for their community. I know you hate the idea that anyone British is nice but, despite those like you that are self-evidently unpleasant, most of us are nice. Where I live, in a town of just over 2,000, almost 1,000 volunteered when the town council asked for volunteers at the beginning of the pandemic. I was amongst them. As were most people I know.
March 30, 2021
Thus our differences with the EU on this crisis and the Credit Crunch (the two biggest calamities to have befallen the EU) are what got us out of trouble, rather than what we had in common.
Rest assured that a vote for Remain in the referendum would have been the signal for full absorption into the EU and that vote would have been for Hard Remain and accelerated union – we’d have been in the euro by now, we’d have been taking the lead from Germany. We would have been tied to the slowest ship in the EU convoy on the vaccine front.
March 30, 2021
“The UK is not a charity and most people do not care much about anyone outside their family .”
This is just not true, do you know how much money all the UK charities raise for good causes both in the UK and abroad? The Rotary clubs, the government contributions, Red Cross I could go on and on.
March 30, 2021
@a-tracy
Well said.
March 30, 2021
About ÂŁ10bn in total which is not at all bad , its just over 1% of the total revenue from taxes , or say about half as much as we spend on alcoholic drinks or about 10% of what we spend on food . No its not nothing
if all that red nose day and poppies went on the UK`s track and grace system it could pay for it in just under 4 years.
Its fine ..but its not really a big deal
March 30, 2021
Feels like a big deal when it is paid after we have given half our earnings in tax. Yes, add it up. Income tax, NI, council tax, VAT, car tax, duties on fuel, tax on insurance premiums, stamp duty, parking charges, air travel taxes, duty on a pint- if you can afford one after the government has emptied your wallet.
March 31, 2021
Newmania,
Your original comment was: âThe UK is not a charity and most people do not care much about anyone outside their family .â
Were you using data from cafonline “Between January and June 2020, the public donated a total of ÂŁ5.4 billion to charity â an increase of ÂŁ800 million compared to the same period in 2019.” and doubling it? I’m trying to find a breakdown of how they arrived at that figure because Cancer Research alone declared ÂŁ656m, Red Cross ÂŁ247m, BHF around ÂŁ151m. I spotted this in the Guardian archives – There are around 160,000 general charities in the UK. According to the UK Civil Society Almanac 2012, these charities have a combined income of around ÂŁ37bn so the ÂŁ10bn you say would be a large drop.
You’re forgetting the value of volunteering in the UK. The most recent ONS figure from 2016 estimated the value of voluntary activity in the UK to be ÂŁ23.9bn. UK volunteering soared during the covid crisis – With each individual contributing, on average, about three hours of their time, the work this volunteer army is doing is estimated to have an equivalent economic value of more than ÂŁ350m a week.
“Since the crisis took hold, millions of Britons have been serving as an informal âvolunteering armyâ, whether it is helping with grocery shopping for others, picking up prescriptions, ringing up people living alone, or helping out at a local food bank.” Guardian 26 May 2020 “Nigel Wilson, Legal & Generalâs chief executive, said: âWe have become a nation of volunteers during the Covid-19 crisis. And â judging by the millions who plan to continue after the lockdown â it is a change that is here to stay.â
March 31, 2021
A-Tracy, absolutely true.Well said.
March 30, 2021
Priorities:
(1) UK, Crown Dependencies and British Overseas Territories.
(2) Any Commonwealth friends (e.g. Cyprus). (Cost to be born by overseas aid budget or by recipients.)
(3) Tourist destinations favoured by UK tourists (e.g. Greece) – so as to help put out travel industry back to work.
We are NOT responsible for helping the entire world. And I can’t find myself with enough love to want HMG to assist hateful, seed-potato banning, non-Commonwealth Ireland.
March 30, 2021
Agree almost apart from Ireland. Politically very interesting (stir things up a bit re their relationship,with the EU) and operationally help NI with cross border contamination.
Certainly a pan Commonwealth initiative, rebuild what we/they lost when we had to switch our loyalties.
March 30, 2021
The Commonwealth is certainly in need of a purpose or two. I think we’ve missed a trick by not coming up with a simple ‘off the shelf FTA’ to offer to all of the Developing/Third World members. And perhaps the more advanced Commonwealth members could give some thought as to how to help Mozambique, militarily.
March 30, 2021
The practicality is that we have a Common Travel Area, and apparently part of that is that trucks can come into the UK from Ireland without the drivers being tested for Covid-19:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/get-a-coronavirus-covid-19-test-if-youre-an-hgv-or-van-driver
“You do not need to take a test if you arrive in England from Ireland, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man – known as the Common Travel Area (CTA). You must have only been in the CTA or the UK in the 10 days before arrival. If you have been outside the CTA in the 10 days before you arrive in England, you must take the tests.”
March 30, 2021
And yet Denis Regular drivers canât all go to Ireland from the UK, they have to quarantine for two weeks before the delivery is done, they have to have PCE test too at too high a cost. The Common Travel area doesnât exist in the other direction.
March 31, 2021
As above, MPs should be asking the government to explain this asymmetry.
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
“This would be a good use of our overseas aid budget, paying for the vaccines from that source.”
No, that would be a diplomatic blunder, it would be seen as a real-time cut in our overseas aid budget, if the UK can supply low income countries with vaccines (especially the Astra Zeneca product) we should do so in addition to our overseas aid budget. Even more so if, due to shelf life, unused doses would otherwise end up having to be destroyed.
As for which countries should be offered any excess, fore example those who have or are threatening trade sanctions, whist lowering ourselves to their level might appeal to some might I suggest the opposite course of action, Covid is a humanitarian issue not trade -nor political (despite the best efforts of a past resident of the White House), much diplomatic credit could be secured by offering any excess on a countries needs not deeds.
All that said, if any of the vaccines have an exceptionally long shelf life, and appears to be affective against variances, is there not a case to simply keep them in store for use here in the UK?
March 30, 2021
A real time cut in the Aid budget? Good , I would happily see that virtue signalling exercise gone for good. It was deamt up by a Christian group in the 1950’s, and the 0.7% figure plucked out of the air. There is no economic logic supporting the Aid budget. In the 60 years we have been shovelling money out the door via the Aid budget no country has been helped from developing status to developed.
March 30, 2021
Iain, so basically you do not give a damn about soft diplomacy?
That is not to say aid doesn’t need to be carefully watched and controlled, hence why DfID was absorbed into the FCO, not abolished.
March 30, 2021
I tend to agree with Iain – aid and soft diplomacy doesn’t work
March 30, 2021
Couldn’t disagree more.
Whenever possible overseas aid should be provided using UK products and services. I’d be very happy to provide poorer countries with vaccine but I would fund it through our aid budget. I would also be happy to provide wealthier countries with excess (to our requirement) does but at cost + – certainly no freebies.
March 30, 2021
Yes, because we are just so rich. We have no debt. We never borrow money to keep going. We have a cash surplus. Let us spend it.
March 31, 2021
@Mike Wilson; If the UK is so poor, so fiscally contained, then surely we should withdraw forthwith from the NATO front line, nor maintain (beyond safety), nor replace, our nuclear deterrents, remaining in NATO on the same bases as Switzerland is a member – no?…
March 30, 2021
“There is a case to be made to supply some of our surplus free of charge to low income countries who did not have the rich country advantages of a strong domestic industry to develop the products, or the cash to forward order in quantity. This would be a good use of our overseas aid budget, paying for the vaccines from that source.”
I agree with this suggestion as long as these ‘low income countries’ exclude the likes of China, India, Pakistan and also self serving greedy dictators etc. If they can afford space and defence projects, or fleets of cars and jets for their personal use, they should not even be recipients of British tax funded foreign aid.
We now also have a growing number of poor people, as a direct result of the government and the opposition voting for continued draconian policies, resulting in over million people losing their jobs/businesses, so the foreign aid needs to be reduced substantially anyway.
March 30, 2021
@J Bush; Your last paragraph is hyperbolic nonsense when compared to other periods of economic distress, how many lost their jobs (as a percentage of the working age population) or businesses in the 1930s, the 1980s?
Unlike the 1930s and 1980s, decades that also had some truly ‘draconian’ polices enacted (if you were on the receiving end of them), the last 12 months is more akin to a correction to our economy, not that is any comfort to those now out of work, but unlike a recession (never mind depression) once it is safe, health wise, there is every indication that the economy will bounce back quickly, and with new opportunity.
March 30, 2021
I agree with that it is no comfort to those unemployed.
Depending on where you live in the country “Some [job centres] will only ask you to apply for three jobs per week, others will expect 15 or more”. Or lose this meagre benefit.
With so many businesses closing their doors, the unemployed are still expected to apply for this number of jobs, what jobs? How?
So yes, I actually do strongly believe this is a relevant issue.
March 30, 2021
@J Bush; “Depending on where you live in the country âSome [job centres] will only ask you to apply for three jobs per week, others will expect 15 or moreâ. Or lose this meagre benefit.”
I assume anyone who is expected to apply for 15 jobs per week must have accepted such a condition when they agreed their ‘job plan’ (or what ever it is called these days), and been happy for their advisor [sic] to think they are able to do so, having access to and being able to use IT etc? But I sympathise with such a UC claimants plight, it is one of the reasons why I have found it increasing difficult to support the current (post 2010) Tory party – they are as out of touch now as they were in 1981, if not more so, when it comes to the real world, real lives, real people. đ
March 30, 2021
I certainly agree that if the UK decides to redistribute its excess vaccines to ‘poor’ countries, the costs should come from the Aid budget.
However, how will poverty be defined, and by whom? Is India to be considered a ‘poor’ country? Many central and sub-Sahel African countries are poor only because of gross incompetence and corruption on the part of their governments, or because of Islamic terrorism – there is a serious moral dilemma waiting in the wings there. Much the same would apply to some South American countries and the Middle East, up to and including Afghanistan and Bangladesh.
And yes, I do empathise with the fact that millions of people are not to blame for their own countries’ severe problems and should not therefore suffer, and that we all have an interest in making the world a safer place.
March 30, 2021
How can India be defined as a poor country when they are able to afford to send rockets into space?
March 30, 2021
When we get into an over supply situation I would put those parts of our Dependencies and Commonwealth that are not big enough to have negotiated their own supplies of vaccine on the list for help. Countries such as the Falkland Islands, islands in the Caribean and Gibraltar come to mind. In the case of the latter I would include enough to cover the 10,000 Spaniards who work every day in Gibraltar. The Commonwealth are family so anyone needing supplies should get them.
I would then consider Greece, Croatia, and Spain if any of them needed supplies, on the grounds that many UK citizens holiday in these areas. Apart from being good sense it would put one up the EU who have earned such a gesture in spades.
With the manufacturers agreement on price I would set it with need, what the market can afford and the UK taxpayer in mind. Yes the Overseas Aid budget would be a good pot to use for the needy. Please do not let those who administer it spend the budget just because it is there, a normal civil service modus operandi.
Properly handled the whole exercise could be very good PR for a newly sovereign UK, emphasising our world reach for good. Just as with the vaccine programme we need one highly competent administrator to set it up, lest it become a UK departmental unseemly scramble for browny points.
March 30, 2021
Yup!!
March 30, 2021
I say two fingers to the EU !
March 30, 2021
I just hope we don’t engage in export control games, like the EU have been talking about. Let pharma companies know the UK is a good place to do business and develop manufacturing.
As to spare vaccine the government has bought – sell it to the highest bidder. That’s the Conservative way.
March 30, 2021
Offering the EU, and other countries, an ‘at cost’ excellent vaccine, which is easy to store and distribute is an altruistic and very generous act on behalf of the UK, which appears not to be appreciated by some. The EU should realise there are ‘consequences’, as they like to constantly remind us with their threats and blackmail. Sell to the EU with a decent mark up as the EU do with the Pfizer vaccine. How could they fairly criticise the UK for doing as they do?
March 30, 2021
Offer some to the EU with the proviso that the WA is amended to prevent them imposing an energy blockade on the UK over fishing rights when this is revisited after five years under the WA.
March 30, 2021
++
Offer some to the French president – he would no doubt throw a hussy fit and provoke more distrust by claiming that the UK government was only giving them vaccines because they knew they were dangerous.
March 30, 2021
I would hope that in 5 years we will be self sufficient in energy ergy. France will be in no position to supply us as there ageing power stations are becoming less reliable.
March 30, 2021
It doesnât really appear that the covid solution is allowed to circulate!
I read that the Italians seized some travelling meningitis vaccine believing it to be covid.
What a political storm when surely during a terrible plague the focus should be on the sick and dying.
Shameful! What a pantomime. ( Another one).
And what a truly GENEROUS government we have. Worldwide cooperation..Ahhhhhh!
March 30, 2021
How vividly I remember that fizzy drink advert with the catchy tune!
Are we convinced yet?
We need a nice world government!
If we donât already have one.
To whom does our government answer?
March 30, 2021
The People!
March 30, 2021
are you serious ???
March 30, 2021
Yay!!
March 30, 2021
Or as Boris helpfully tweeted ( today I think) encouraging world leaders to sign some sort of âpactâ….
âNo government can address the threat of pandemics alone â we must come together.â Quoth he.
Yeah.
March 30, 2021
I do hope we are not being released from custody just for the May Elections?
According to one much respected Lord the tories will do well.
So..âget out of your boxes to vote ( the right way) then back in again with you.â
That would be almost as bad as pretending to be a libertarian.
March 30, 2021
I suggest we use our excess vaccine doses to negotiate the setting up of camps for our failed asylum seekers and export them at the same time.
March 30, 2021
Interesting question and suggestions, especially using the foreign aid budget, which is an excellent idea.
Once we have reached the point where all who want a jab has had one and sufficient doses for a booster are at hand, we should use any spares to help our friends and allies, for example, the Commonwealth. As there won’t be enough for everyone, let the Commonwealth decide who gets what.
In view of their hostile behaviour and threats, under no circumstances should a single dose go to an EU country, especially Ireland, although an exception could be argued due to contamination affecting the North.
As an aside, I do hope Boris stops referring to the EU as friends and allies. They are unfriendly neighbours, nothing more and to think otherwise is naive.
March 30, 2021
+1
Agree with all of your post, and it should be supplied at cost for those Commonwealth countries that can afford it. For those who cannot then pay for it out of our foreign aid budget.
We should not seek to make a profit out of a pandemic for vaccines.
We should not allow despot countries any from our stock, as it will be probably only be resold on the alternative market for profit, with the population ignored, other than those working in Government positions
Interesting one for you, if we did offer it to an EU Country direct, would the EU even allow it given they would not be in control of distribution. ?
March 30, 2021
Boris can call the EU as he sees them, but please distinguish them from Europeans.
March 30, 2021
If the EU has a shortfall, and we are in a position to help, then perhaps we should consider that. We need to have good relations with them.
March 30, 2021
You need to tell the EU of the need for good relations. Can you think of a single threat from the UK to the EU in the last 5 years, and think back on the many threats and aggressive actions towards us from the EU?
March 30, 2021
@Wokinhamite – Why? they have reneged on everything since we voted leave. They reneged on their own Laws an Rules for a WA, they reneged on a Trade Agreement between the UK and the EU. They have reneged on the WTO. They have reneged on the Belfast Agreement. They wont even ratify the small parts of the TA.
The EU’s shortfall is simply and only because they(the EU Commission) stood back and waited. Waited to see they lie of the land, they waited to pressure for better prices. All the time they were killing EU citizens. Their answer to this mistake is to threaten the life’s of UK’s citizen rather than asking as friends and neighbours for help.
The UK Government took one hell of a gamble, agreed payments from the UK taxpayer here there and every were for something no one knew existed or could be created. While the EU Commission stood back. The UK Government according to official figures as with the US has spent 10 times what the EU has spent per head of population to solve a World crisis. The EU Commissions answer is to threaten your life, that of your family, friends and neighbours until we offer up enough vaccine to solve there mistake and get ahead.
The rest of the World that is not threatening the lives of UK citizens and is not as rich as the EU deserves our help and deserves to be in front of them
March 30, 2021
Trouble is that appeasing a bully only reinforces their behaviour. We bent over backwards in the Brexit negotiations to be nice to them, giving them ÂŁ39 billion that we didn’t owe them, our share of the EU’s assets, and five years of free access to our fisheries. And still they search for new ways to do us harm.
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
The EU has a shortfall because British company AstraZeneca failed to deliver to them – while delivering to us. The U.K. government refused to share those supplies whilst EU countries continued to share millions of doses of Pfizer jabs with us.
The EU ordered plenty of doses, from plenty of suppliers, in plenty of time. It was betrayed by the British supplier.
The behaviour of Britain and this British company have been appalling.
I doubt the EU27 will forget such treachery – even though they have little interest in little Britain.
Reply Astra followed the contracts which committed to the Uk because the Uk backed the project and signed the better contract.
March 30, 2021
Andy, do you really think if the shortage was the other way around that the EU would be falling over themselves to help us? They are already gloating that they are stopping supplies to us. This kind of behaviour could be expected in a counttry like China but in Europe I find it most abhorrent. Without going over history the countries of the EU wouldnt be where they are today without us.
March 30, 2021
What ‘British’ supplier ?
March 30, 2021
I think you have a poor grasp of contract law, Andy.
March 30, 2021
Andy I totally agree with you
March 30, 2021
Andy
The EU has not made any doses of the vaccine. Simples !
Yes a Commercial Company Pfizer has a manufacturing plant in the EU, but this plant also imports some of the ingredients which then goes to make up the vaccine from outside the EU.
Thus the product does not belong to anyone, other than Pfizer, and those who pay for it.
March 30, 2021
Lies from beginning to end. Trump would be proud of your fake news.
March 31, 2021
The EU was late to order, placed far to few orders, with no vision , showing exceptionally poor risk management.
They use vaccines or lack of them as part of an integrationist political power play. Health was and is secondary to the Eu-religion.
Placing multiple orders early with multiple potential providers at the potential phase and supporting the development costs for some at cost . The UK/US & others have helped to ensure rapid vaccine production and use.
We must move to WTO asap and cut EU dependence. Sure help others but we need to be aware of those who are allies and those with highest need. Yes fund through overseas aid. It would be an effective use of funds and if OAZ covered costs plus some it would not be wrong.
March 30, 2021
Good relations with europeans produce benefits in both directions and are desirable. The EU is something else. If you have to deal with them, wash your hands, wear latex surgical gloves and a mask. They suffer democracy defecit syndrome and aim to spread the contagion, not cure it.
March 30, 2021
We need to be a good neighbour – yes – but also one who makes it clear that we are also capable of defending our own interests should anyone try to take the ‘Michael’.
March 30, 2021
And if they are still saying it is a slightly dodgy vaccine, do we cut the price to below cost price, find some means of coercing them to accept our offer, or send security guards to force it into their arms?
March 30, 2021
It’s too late for good relations with them- Farage and Widdecombe saw to that when they put the final nail before they left and like that huge container ship stuck in the suez there is only so low you can go- the same as this notion of bartering medicine in a time of pandemic
March 30, 2021
No. We must be unhinged to assist the French or Irish.
There should be a price to pay for the disgraceful way they have dragged out our departure from the EU, and the continuing niggles at every turn.
By all means offer vaccines to countries that have shown cordial dealing with us rather snide hotstile opportunism.
March 30, 2021
I do not think we should punish the people of the EU for the idiocy and immorality of their political leaders. Fools like macron and von der Leyen, and even merkel, who have launched politicised attacks on a company which has triumphantly produced an excellent vaccine – now confirmed to be be even more efficient than at first thought. And done it at no profit. These attacks have been attempts to divert from their incompetence and failure. But according to opinion polls in the EU itâs not working. People recognise the EU has failed them massively.
A couple of points on the AZ issue, since so many sound off without obviously knowing anything about business or trade (including one or two here). First if the EU had any contractual case against AZ they would just take it to court, not threaten to implement property and IP theft and block implementation of legal contracts in a way hitherto unprecedented in advanced democracies.
Second, it is not the âEUâ selflessly exporting, it is the EU not – so far – illegally and immorally preventing companies from fulfilling contracts. Just as it is not the U.K. exporting vaccine ingredients as a matter of policy. Companies are doing so, and of course the U.K. govt isnât preventing that.
All thatâs happened is the U.K. got its vaccine programme well organised and the EU did not. The one did not cause the other.
March 30, 2021
It would be in our interests to follow Arlene Foster’s suggestion to provide surplus vaccine to Eire. They provide much of our food and as one of our closest neigbours, would inevitably be a potential source of infection if they remain unvaccinated.
In spite of the pro-EU Tanaiste Simon Coveney’s well known anti-British views, we should help the Irish. A great deal of goodwill would result.
March 30, 2021
Sakara only when they stop treating us as pariahs. They are stopping our imports, demanding two weeks quarantine of visitors. They are forever in our newspapers threatening this that and the other. There drivers come and go through the UK without PSA tests ours donât, none HGV deliveries are in effect cancelled.
March 31, 2021
Not ‘PSA’ sorry ‘PCR’ “a negative/ânot detectedâ result from a pre-departure COVID-19 Reverse Transcription Polymerase Chain Reaction (RT-PCR) test carried out no more than 72 hours prior to arrival in Ireland. Small van drivers then have to go into quarantine until another test proves they’re negative.
March 30, 2021
And in other news we read the Government is seeking bids for a âGreensillâ type invoice discounting arrangement across all departments not just the NHS.
Seems to be an acknowledgment of the inefficiency of their payment systems. On the basis that there will be a cost to HMG or suppliers to help with their cash flow, why doesnât it get it right first time making this unnecessary?
March 30, 2021
Andy you stated the following:-
As a result we have ordered far more vaccines than we need all at an unnecessarily high price. Effectively we are hoarding it â stopping other countries getting supplies they need.
Where is your evidence of this? Just because we have hugely over ordered we have not received them .Boris has said we will pass them over to other countries when all our people have had the jab.
March 30, 2021
Andy is incapable of reading and learning. Bless.
March 30, 2021
Make ten doses available with every illegal immigrant accepted back in their home country in Africa.
March 30, 2021
If there are at risk (vulnerable) populations able to give fully informed consent then that is where the prophylactic vaccines should be focussed. Presenting them as something they are not and pushing them at low risk populations is immoral enough, hoovering them up and using the supply as an international weapon is beyond the pale.
March 30, 2021
Not much sign they want good relations given the pathetic and hugely damaging behaviour of Macron and Mercel over the Oxford A/Z vaccines, NI and trade. They clearly do not even care about their own peopleâs lives very much.
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
1. “Some might argue we should charge them a higher market price. In the case of Astra product that would raise the issue should any part of a UK taxpayer profit be shared with Astra who otherwise have a break even price, and might raise issues for Astra about their promises over general pricing and supply.”
Strikes me you’re becoming scared of the word “profit”.
2. Sell on at cost to Ireland first, then Commonwealth, then third world, ensuring no profit-taking. If the remainder of the EU comes knocking, it’s ÂŁ100 a shot.
3. Hope nobody gets any bright ideas about arbitraging between different parts of the NHS.
March 30, 2021
The focus should be on the economy. We should include cross border workers into Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and Cyprus in our existing efforts.
British embassies abroad could vaccinate people needing to travel here for business. We can then prioritise those working in UK travel and logistics living abroad. Also close friends and relatives of British residents to enable family reunions.
March 30, 2021
I see Johnson is going to pen our name to a new international treaty making us legally obliged to hand out vaccines. It seems our political class never learn, they always rush to sign us up to more international burdens. Their desire to make us the world’s keeper knows no bounds.
March 30, 2021
Iâm getting sick of Johnson and his knee bending.
If he doesnât level the playing field soon, the British public is going to have to take retaliation into our own hands before he allows the EU to cause more problems for our businesses and people. I donât mind level playing fields but at the moment weâre at the bottom of a sloping pitch.
March 30, 2021
Give our surplus, not sell it.
If we labour to grow fruit and veg, are blessed with surplus, but our neighbour is in need, we would give. If our larder has more groceries than we need and our neighbour has a shortfall, we would share freely. Similarly, if we have bought more vaccines than we need, view our expenditure on them as a sunk cost: give the surplus to those without enough of their own.
If we have to prioritise: UK, CI and Crown dependencies, New Zealand and Australia, Eire and continental Europe, ROW. Ignore the nastiness of some EU politicians; it is to the people that we have a humanitarian commitment.
Better not offset it against the aid budget; we do not seek plaudits for doing the right thing, but nor do we want brickbats.
March 30, 2021
We should remember that people are grateful for kind acts that you are about to do; gratitude for past acts is in short supply.
March 30, 2021
I would be happy to contribute my share of vaccines to any country that wants them.
This brings us back to the subject of health passports / certificates – The following ministerial quote from just a week ago tells us all we need to know about duplicity:
Then there is the EU passport scheme the UK has been invited to join…
With so much deceit on the subject of CV and CV vaccines is it any wonder that so many people would prefer to trust their immune systems rather than take an experimental vaccine
March 30, 2021
I agree.
March 30, 2021
The more the government attempts to coerce the public to accept vaccinations or vaccination passports, the less inclined they will be to do so.
March 30, 2021
165 countries are now part of Covax including 92 low- and middle-income countries. Covax aims at having 2 bn doses of Covid vaccines (from at least 5 possibly 11 pharmaceutical companies) available by end of 2021. Why could the UK not simply participate in that effort? AstraZeneca (Serum Institute of India) is already the major provider of Covid vaccines to Covax. Does any vaccine originating from the UK need to have a red, white and blue on the syringe?
Is today not another day of Sir John playing Kaa (the Jungle Book) to his usual audience?
March 30, 2021
The UK joined Covax in September last year.
March 30, 2021
Has the UK provided vaccines to Covax? No, it has provided ÂŁ250 m to Covax (www.gov.uk âUK meets ÂŁ250m match aid …â) but no vaccine. If anything the UK is expecting 10 m doses from the SII locally-made version of the AZ vaccine.
India has so far administered 52 m vaccines, 47 m are the SII-AZ vaccines.
March 30, 2021
You’ve made the key points:
– Free vaccines to low income countries should come out of the foreign aid budget
– Vaccines supplied to other countries should be at cost or with profit. I don’t see why we shouldn’t make a profit from selling vaccines to rich countries that have played no part in developing a vaccine.
And one important ground rule: any country with nuclear weapons is not ‘low income’.
March 30, 2021
Perhaps, we need to take a step back from judging what’s a fair price? It’s relative, and any price that’s lower than those profiteering from their vaccine will be beneficial to “low income” countries, even when it attracts a profit at this end.
Surely, the real issue is how to ensure that the vaccine actually reaches the general population? With any aid it can be argued that exploited peoples will be kept in poverty to attract continuing support. This also makes the vaccine an asset with a high resale value for the destination country, so it needs to be priced as an investment for them. It’s morally difficult to set ourselves up as judge and jury over poor governance, but we know enough about the virus to understand the best way to support the general population by setting our own criteria for our finite resources, e.g. infection:population:implementation plan. We can’t save the world and everyone thinks their need is greater, so to be seen to be fair the final choice of beneficiaries could be left to chance by drawing “names from a hat”! Subject to meeting our criteria, even the EU could find itself enjoying our largesse!
March 30, 2021
Obviously we should start with the Irish Republic because of the Common Travel Area, that is if the Irish government is interested in a bilateral arrangement rather sticking with the EU scheme.
March 30, 2021
Incidentally this has not received wide publicity:
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/repayment-of-bailout-loans-reminder-of-a-lost-high-point-in-anglo-irish-relations-40244779.html
“Repayment of bailout loans reminder of a lost high point in Anglo-Irish relations”
“It didnât feel like it at the time, but in hindsight the worst yearâs of the Irish financial crash were a golden age for Anglo-Irish relations. In the current era of Brexit snarl ups, vaccine nationalism and Boris Johnsonâs dangerously casual approach to the Good Friday Agreement, it is easy to forget.
Yesterday, Ireland repaid the final installment of ÂŁ3.23bn (âŹ3.8bn) of emergency loans that David Cameronâsgovernment provided as part of the wider EU/IMF 2010 bailout.
The UK loan was secured when Ireland was on its financial and diplomatic knees. It actually came with little fuss and almost no conditions from Cameron and his Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne, despite their having to face down opposition at home from the ant-EU wing of their own backbenches to sign the cheques.”
It’s a pity that Irish politicians decided that attack was the best means of defence against Brexit.
March 30, 2021
You are correct, and in addition, the UK later reduced the interest rate on its loan to Ireland, as Ireland’s debt began to climb.
March 30, 2021
In todays Telegraph it is said the Boris and other World leaders are signing up to a World Pandemic Treaty.
Part of me thinks( because there is a lot of it) it is just virtual signaling. Then further doubts creep in when you see the others that are said to be in agreement. The French and German leaders may suggest they are willing to get involved, but then again they have signed over their responsibility to the EU Commission. Is the EU a Trading Association or is it a Country also creeps in as an unanswered question. The EU likes rules and laws but is also the first to break them for them they are only meant for others. There ‘out’ of course is they run their own Courts, are un-elected and un-accountable – so who cares.
Any international agreement on current form with the EU should be seen as to risky. As they have said in recent weeks if they don’t get what they demand they will steel it. Reciprocity, to the EU is not a mutual contribution between neighbors it means if a neighbour has something they forgot to order, didn’t want to contribute in bringing it to the market they have to give it up or have it stolen.
March 30, 2021
Helping out other countries is a good idea, especially if the contributions are paid for by the foreign aid budget. I believe that this is precisely the sort of thing that budget was designed for, ie assisting other countries with their health (and education). Thus would be a most satisfactory use of UK Taxpayers money.
I am concerned that any vaccines sent to The Republic of Ireland could make their way to the EU, contrary to the aims of the NI Protocol. May I propose that we invite those of the Republic that work in or visit Northern Ireland on a regular basis to be vaccinated FOC in NI. That would help secure the ‘health border’ without raising concerns about smuggling.
March 30, 2021
That’s ok we in the ROI can wait our turn within the EU only a month or two behind you but we’ll get there
March 30, 2021
I think poorer countries of The Commonwealth should be given first refusal.
Some of those countries have had only a low level of the virus, so I donât think that vaccination should be done regardless. Especially as it appears that for a short period after the jab (Pziser mainly) infection is more likely so for some countries the jab could actually be a cause of an outbreak!
March 30, 2021
Lets not rush to start making the grand political gestures just yet – as much as Westminster likes to be seen to be strutting the world stage. Lets await for the Covid dust to settle before we start assuming that the UK is “safe” and the surplus doses are no longer required. But to answer the question – possibly the first countries to select are those that we know would help us.
March 30, 2021
In normal circumstances it would be ridiculous to vaccinate any part of the population which is not at risk from a disease. This is the case with anyone under fifty in good health. Being a more traditional vaccine than the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA type, it is less likely to have unknown side effects which have
been predicted by some senior doctors.
The squandering of NHS resources on experimental vaccines is another disgraceful episode after a list of others.
The AZ vaccine is already out of date, with another already being developed.
The sale of excess vaccines should be to any country wishing to take them and as soon as possible. The countries in Africa, Asia and America will not need the vaccines as much as is expected because they are already using ivermectin and have a younger demographic. It would be better to flog the stuff to the countries in Europe that have not gone out of their way to damage trade. France, Holland and Belgium would not be included in the list.
March 30, 2021
Stred: where ivermectin is being used here in S Africa against Covid, it is being used illegally. It has not been approved by either the SA Medical Authorities or by the manufacturer, as it has serious side effects and its anti-Covid efficacy is dubious.
March 31, 2021
It was used extensively in SA until the government banned it after listening to the American regulators or big pharma. It has been used for treatment of parasitic diseases for forty years and has been recommended by the WHO. It is one of the safest drugs and is safer than commonly used over the counter dtugs. If your government is suddenly saying that ivermectin has serious side effects, it is wrong. The drug is off patent and manufactured by more than one company. Only Merk recommended it was ineffective against covid. Although they invented it, they have a new patented drug in development. Two meta analyzes have been done on the 14 blind trials throughout the world and found that it is 80% effective in cutting death rate.
Reply This site cannot adjudicate medical claims and they are best referred to qualified people.
March 31, 2021
You can find information by finding interviews with Dr Tess Lawrie or on the Tice Talk videos.
March 30, 2021
Good morning Sir John,
There is a pressing need for UK resilience in vaccine production and we must not lose sight of this.
Uk based vaccine producers should be incentivised and that requires the freedom to sell overseas at a profit.
This does not impact the provision of vaccines to poor countries as overseas aid.
March 30, 2021
I am a firm believer in the principal that taking risk entitles you to any reward that is going, but I suppose that could come in ‘Brownie points’ as well as hard cash. I would be a bit careful on that one though, given the tendency of recipients of ‘Charity’ to resent the donor. I also think that Charity begins at home, and I would want to be very sure indeed that we had enough for our own foreseeable requirements before parting with a drop to anyone else, however desperate their need.
We need to make it clear that giving the vaccine poor nations with incompetent or oppressive Governments is a gift to the people, and not to their Governments, and such benefactions should certainly come out of, and not be in addition to, our Overseas Aid budget. Injection of the vaccines in such places should be under British supervision so we can be sure it gets to the right people. Perhaps for once then, we might be sure that it does provide aid, and does not just finance Government corruption in the recipient country.
AstraZeneca’s decision to distribute at cost is its own decision, and I do not think the British taxpayer has any right to profit from that. Is that perhaps a reason to keep our supplies of the Oxford AZ vaccine for our own use, taking a turn on surplus stocks of others where possible?
Appart from the most obviously needy cases, any exports of British surplus vaccine should be made to places that are in our own interests, which we would like to see protected because thay provide goods we need, or we might want to visit, and are friendly to us. The latter, by definition, excludes a good deal of Europe.
March 30, 2021
âIt is perhaps understandable that some other countries, some higher charging companies and the EU are jealous of this success.â
It is because the Oxford AZâs non-profit making vaccine undercut the profit being made by other EU produced vaccines that that the EU has tried to first question the efficacy and then the safety of the vaccine.
AZ have said they will not do this again.
March 30, 2021
Soriot, the CEO of AZ, has said that he finds the French “deeply irrational” to deal with.
March 31, 2021
The US regulator has dragged its feet over approval of the AZ vaccine, while approving two other US vaccines since the Pfizer was approved in December. The American vaccines are around ten times the price of AZ.
March 30, 2021
When I read that our PM has joined more than 20 world leaders in calling for a new “global settlement” to help the world prepare for future pandemics I know that our country and its taxpayers are destined for another fleecing.
Such âglobal settlementsâ, treaties and commitments should not be made without the countryâs consent through a referendum.
Mrs. May signed us up to the UN Global Compact for Migration without even a vote in Parliament.
March 30, 2021
Have an up vote from me. International treaties are a loss of sovereignty and something not easily clawed back, as we saw with the EU. The asylum system has become a circus to benefit people smugglers and human rights lawyers and beyond any sort of control. We should be asked before any Prime Minister signs us up to obligations that bind the hands of future Governments.
March 30, 2021
I, too, read this with deep dismay.
March 30, 2021
Try looking at it this way. A global scheme to head off future pandemics will obviously require a Biotech R&D infrastructure and the UK already has a very large one. It would be very good both for the economy and for research for this R&D to be done in the UK, with UK researchers leading it, with UK and other students training for it in UK Universities.
March 30, 2021
Iâd be happy for any unused supply to be returned to manufacturer, and with âjust in timeâ that number would be small, at cost
Iâd be happy for any planned option weâve pre purchased to be cancelled
Governments should stop acting like âdistributorsâ of health products and leave the distribution, sale and retail to the manufacturers
Countries shouldnât have to negotiate with other countries (carbon trading scheme again) they need to deal directly with the supplier in the market place
Once again its about power â less governments please
March 30, 2021
Sir John,
I agree with your suggestion of using the overseas aid budget, and I would prioritise smaller commonwealth countries in need. Especially Pacific island nations with populations that could be treated relatively quickly.
The EU is not a country, but if any individual member state requested assistance then that should be taken into consideration. In the EU some countries are more equal than others.
March 30, 2021
Quite.
March 30, 2021
Equal to what?
March 30, 2021
The way the EU has been behaving towards us over vaccines demonstrates very clearly that we should ensure that we are totally independent from the EU for any critical supplies, such as our energy.
March 30, 2021
We should meet our commitments to assist other countries via the Covax initiative.
In addition we should assist Australia and any other of our Commonwealth family & friends, especially those whose shipments were appropriated and wasted or blocked by the EU.
After that demonstrably friendly countries, even if in the EU but nothing to or via any EU organisation.
Countries that can afford it should pay what we contracted for our allocation.
March 30, 2021
We are being misled on an epic scale. More than 90% of the population do not need to be vaccinated.
March 30, 2021
A classic example of the misleading you complain of Iago, or did I misunderstand you.
March 30, 2021
+1
March 30, 2021
It is in everybody’s interest that as many people in the world get the vaccine regardless of their sometimes despotic governments, so it should go those living in dire conditions in Africa and the Middle East – maybe starting with refugee camps. Perhaps overseas working charities could help with distribution rather than corrupt governments.
March 30, 2021
We shouldnât give the vaccine nor any aid to any country that doesnât agree to only using electric vehicles by 2030 ? Whatâs good for the goose is good for the gander
March 30, 2021
We must be firm in defending and protecting our ditect interests which must be put above all. We are subject to vaccine jealousy and the idea is to diminish us.
The EU was months behind in placing vaccine orders and they must suffer the consequences. We have nothing to gain from pretending we are a major wealthy global force and will benefit by giving away what we worked so hard to achieve.
We are not a global power that the world respects. There are sadly many otherwise intelligent politicians and leaders who naively fool themselves into thinking we are but they are a danger to us because other countries use that to exploit us.
March 30, 2021
Give the surplus to anyone but our European adversaries, they simply don’t deserve it or our help. They are not our friends,friends don’t behave the way they have. The government should stop referring to them as our friends or allies as they are not.
March 30, 2021
We should offer to sell the surplus vaccine to recoup some of the cost we have expended. The cost for poorer countries should be taken out of our foreign aid budget.
My preferential order would be:
1) Those countries with the largest Covid outbreaks e.g. Brazil
2) Our Commonwealth friends
3) Once the people of Northern Ireland have been vaccinated allow the Southern Irish to register for vaccination. This will allow the Irish to use their supply for those living too far away to attend.
We all know that if the UK gives any vaccine to countries in the EU it will be the EU that will take credit for it.
March 30, 2021
Commonwealth countries yes, EU no. Funny how they make export of everything to the EU very difficult but not so with the vaccine. The EU are normally not our friends and won’t be in the future. As with our contributions when we were members they are only interested in us when it benefits them. Screw them.
March 30, 2021
I would give preference to Commonwealth countries, particularly African ones such as Kenya and Ghana. There is a case for Ireland and possibly some EU countries. Macron can stew.
March 30, 2021
I must say I groaned at the mention today of a global vaccination treaty. Yet another ( expletive ) treaty, do we really need one. Mutual accountability, rules and norms, global community, shared responsibility and transparency. All sounds good, a global ‘fix’ but hinged around a degree of kneejerk sentimentalism and will no doubt bring its own challenges, inadequacies & I suppose expense. Am all for strengthening of the WHO framework & making it more agile and accountable so will reserve judgement.
March 30, 2021
Yes. I agree with that. With the caveat that it is not allowed into the hands of tin-pot dictators who have Swiss bank accounts and fleets of Mercedes.
March 30, 2021
That’s all of them !
March 30, 2021
As a slight aside – notwithstanding the discussion about whether one will need a vaccine certificate to have a beer or go to a football match – when as many of us as want to be are vaccinated – when numbers are right down and lockdowns have ended – WILL THIS INANE GOVERNMENT ALLOW PEOPLE FROM ABROAD INTO THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED?
March 30, 2021
Mike
Surely the idea of an international vaccine certificate is exactly that, they cannot travel into the UK or anywhere else without one !
I cannot believe we would allow people coming into the UK to be excluded from producing one to gain entry…………………………… Oh wait a minute !
March 30, 2021
Climate change update
BBC reporting temp today 24c in London hottest day on record since 1968
But isnât that date before mass car usage, airline travel and industrialisation of China and India ?
Therefore logic would dictate that manmade carbon output via the internal combustion engine has little to do with climate change and global warming
March 30, 2021
Sadly kindness is seen as a weakness by many – just look at the SNP who use it against us and the EU headed by UVL a Doctor who should know better …….
Those countries who are our allies should be helped first – after all Commonwealth countries came to our aid and paid with their lives.
We are arguably in some kind of new war with an invisible enemy!
March 30, 2021
The EU is not jealous as it has the world leadership qualities. The UK is a minor country by comparison to the might of the EU on the world stage.
The EU does not need our vaccines as it has it’s own big production capacity and I’m sure by June most of the citizens will be vaccinated .
UK Surplus vaccines should be initially focused on Common wealth Countries then wider to world countries that have shortages. Forget about money and costs we are dealing with peoples lives and money is not important, forget the cost just give it away free. Once I pay my tax (and non of us pay enough tax) I cannot be bothered about what its used for I simply leave it for the state to decide.
Off topic – good to see the debate about banning over 70s from driving, on balance probably be better to ban all carbon fueled vehicles from towns and city centers in favour of public transport park and ride.
March 31, 2021
@David Brown
What inane bolleaux is this? None of us pay enough tax!!!!! Speak for yourself, matey.
By the time we have paid income tax, national insurance, council tax, VAT, duties on fuel, car tax, tax on savings interest, parking charges, tax on insurance premiums and a whole raft of other taxes and charges (capital gains tax, inheritance tax to name but two) – we all pay far too much tax and the government pisses much of the money away. ÂŁ350 a day for showing your face in the House of Spongers – yeah, thatâs the way to spend our money. ÂŁ6000 a day for consultants – bargain! ÂŁ11 billion on failed IT system – a mere bagatelle! Plenty more tax to waste.
March 30, 2021
Yes Sir John. Why should UK tax payers subsidise vaccines for other countries?
Why should vaccine producers sell at below market prices to other countries?
You have raised the right questions.
U.K., Britain, England, has no need to beg for acceptance on the world stage.
March 30, 2021
We should supply Ireland as they are in close touch with our N Ireland and without doing so we will risk our people but only on the condition that they cooperate with us rather than obstruct. After all fairs fair.
The rest of our surplice should go to the poorer members of our Commonwealth family. All of this should be covered by our overseas budget.
The EU has shown its self to be our enemy and they should not be supplied.
March 30, 2021
I question the need for a âvaccineâ a recovery rate of 99.95% doesnât indicate that the virus is a problem, shouldnât we rely on our immune systems and the vulnerable to self isolate!
Mass medication is worrying and the destruction of the economy a crime and for a disease which requires the unreliable PCR test with its notoriously high false positives
March 31, 2021
+++
March 31, 2021
My thoughts exactly, Lester. Thank you for expressing them so well. And all this in an atmosphere of censorship, and suppression of drug therapies like Ivermectin – one has to wonder what is really going on. Don’t answer – for those who want to hear, we already know!
March 30, 2021
He Who has signed a reasonable trade deal with us, gets the doses, he who has tried to split the UK does not
Seems fair, japan is apparently in a pickle and would probably be thrilled to receive our surplus on buy 1 for yourself buy 1 for someone else deal,
At no cost to us we vaccinate Japan and Chile and Morocco and Tunisia, just random picks.
March 30, 2021
To me it’s quite odd that when you ask if the UK should donate vaccine shots to low income countries, immediately most of the comments are about the EU. I think that is good example of the way that EU membership has distorted UK perceptions about the outside World – to a lot of people of all persuasions, the World is us and the EU and that’s it.
The UK donating vaccine doses to the low income World has nothing to do with the EU. The days of our foreign aid ending up where the EU wants it to go, with a big EU flag on it, ought to be over.
I think we ought to ignore the EU and make this a Commonwealth project. Announce how many doses the UK has to donate, and ask the Commonwealth Secretariat to organize a donation scheme – I think India could also be a big donor. This would not just help to solve some serious problems, but it would send a loud, clear, “We’re back” signal to low-income countries.
Countries that get vaccine donations from the UK will then naturally begin to think of the UK as a direct trading partner rather than as a remote country you only talk to about trade with EU permission and on EU terms.
March 31, 2021
Dear Sir John,
I am happy for the UK to distribute surplus vaccines to so-called third world countries as part and parcel of the aid budget and charged at cost against that budget. However, their distribution in the destination country should be contingent upon a plan that provides the vaccine across the wider populace and does not favour the privileged in the seat of Government and their supporters. Difficult to do, I’m sure, but something that should be stipulated at the outset.
If we have any left over then we should make it available at cost to near neighbours, such as Ireland, so as to show that we have the well being of all the inhabitants on the island of Ireland in mind.