After many months of looking to the state to guide or control our actions we need to rebuild individual and family responsibility quickly and comprehensively. We should not need to ask the state permission to go to a cafe or entertainment. There should not be special rules about trips to the supermarket. Public sector facilities from libraries to toilets should be reopened fully and available for use. Social distancing and mask wearing should be a matter for individual decision.
Of course people will still value medical advice, and many will want to listen to experts about how they can keep themselvesĀ and their familiesĀ safe. We all might learn more about cleaning, airflows and exposure to possibly infected groups of people to the benefit of our health. It would be good if we pressed on with an airflow revolution in health settings and public places as it is not just CV 19 we can pick up from such exposure. It is a good idea to keep hands and home surfaces clean to cut our risk of catching something.
What surely we now wish to avoid is missing out on so much normal life, particularly the things we do with friends and family and for our entertainment. These are the things that makes life worthwhile and more enjoyable.
July 26, 2021
Agreed.
However, the government wants more control. Passports to go to football matches or nightclubs are being considered. The government can announce āfreedom dayā(as if freedom is in their gift) then get other agencies to take it away on their behalf.
āWhere are your papers?ā
July 26, 2021
Exactly.
Averaged over the population Covid has cost people about 4 days of life. Meanwhile everyone has has been locked down and heavily restricted for well over a year. Hardly a sensible balance! The “cure” which is not a “cure” anyway is far, far worse than Covid. Someone with perhaps just a couple of years left has had one of them hugely damaged and partly lost. Then we have all the other collateral damage deaths on top of this. We much open up fully and now.
July 26, 2021
Local authorities to issue speeding fines and deter even more from towns and villages.
Covid is being used as a springboard for massive intrusion into our lives.
Power corrupts, absolute power………….
They won’t rescind control easily.
July 26, 2021
Peter, +1, first in the list of todayās comments, and scarcely anything more need be said.
July 26, 2021
Just like the Soviet Union. If an ordinary citizen wanted to visit Moscow you had to apply for an internal visa and get it stamped to prove you visited Leninās tomb (the one and only reason for a visit).
Air travel will never be normal. It wasnāt normal before Covid: taxes applied at both ends: air passenger duty; arrive two hours before your flight for security checks; financial records given to the Americans; green taxes on airfare; have a passport expiration date of more than 6 months.
I can remember arriving at the check-in desk, with only hand luggage, 30 minutes before take off, running to the boarding gate and getting on the flight.
July 26, 2021
Peter
Why should it bother you? you told us you were an Irish national.
July 26, 2021
Different Peter
July 26, 2021
Steve,
No I did not.
There are numerous Peters posting on this site.
If you had bothered to look below the Irish one, you would see I replied that it was not posted by me.
I could apply for an Irish passport if I wished though.
July 26, 2021
Of course the government can take away your freedom any time it wants.
July 26, 2021
We are still losing our freedoms. What right has the Government to tell us what cars to buy, what heating to use in our homes.What right have they to burden people with subsidies for windfarms etc. You are so right but rights removed are hard to recover.
July 26, 2021
Spot On
July 28, 2021
Advice is slightly different than dictate. I am reminded of the folks we advise to stop smoking as they suffer with breathing and all other disease as their lungs etc are being damaged. They see us later and childishly sport out of the window of their car ,their fag habits and throw down dimps on the floor in a childish pugnacious pose. ! We advise and want what is best.
July 26, 2021
Spot on Peter. Government has tasted unprecedented control over us, likes it, and will be reluctant to give it up. Add to that Boris’ enthusiasm for the policies of the globalists and our future is bleak if we don’t fight back.
July 26, 2021
Good morning,
Keeping everything we touch and breath squeeky-clean and sanitised…. No. It may seem counterintuitive but it is the many minor infections we pick up as children, or we used to, that we recover from and which enhances our immune system to protect us better in later life.
An anecdotal story, having lived abroad for many years, in each new location I went through a ‘sickness period’ on and off, over a period of 2-3 years until I had picked up local immunity. It’s part of the risk of living.
July 26, 2021
Well said Peter Wood
July 26, 2021
+1
July 26, 2021
Agreed, Peter Wood!
When I first started working in a primary school I got lots of colds, after a time, Iād several years with no cold at allā¦ or a ānearly coldā which felt like I was getting a cold one day, but didnāt!
July 26, 2021
@Peter Woods. Your comments are dangerous half truths.
July 26, 2021
Yes. The Old Normal was highly dangerous.
Can’t have that now, can we !
July 26, 2021
The truth is always dangerous for politicians.
Not natural bed mates.
July 26, 2021
My problem with the truth on this site is, telling the truth about how a fiat currency economy actually works, never gets past moderation. Prols are required to believe the “noble lie” that the government’s budgeting process is exactly the same as a households’ budgeting process.
Reply I do not publish wrong and inaccurate political diatribes masquerading as economics.
July 26, 2021
MMT obsessed socialists, Acorn, believe the “ignoble lie” that the government’s budgeting process is somehow different from a household’s. And that’s not self-serving in which way? They can promise the Moon, and print bits of paper to pay for it – hahaha. And if you believe that, I’ve got this planetary twin I can sell you. As long as you don’t use your MMT money to pay for it.
July 27, 2021
The buying of government bonds by the BoE – but particularly why this is not serious, as claimed by John – suggests to me that the Government and many in the Tories very much do accept certain aspects of MMT at least.
July 28, 2021
reply to reply . My original interest was JR as a politician , then I realised John knew much about finance. I know hardly anything . I have read up on this theory and that theory ,however the relevance of such past theories is somewhat tenuous ( perhaps that is because I know little) however I do not pretend I have knowledge through experience , read articles and primary evidence. All evidence taken away from the original changes slightly and complex when so many trillionaires are in the field.
July 26, 2021
That’s a valid view but not shared by most of us it seems. Upon retirement, I decided to assist a charity in the Thai hills and before I did consulted my doctor. Amongst his advise to me was to cease to live in a sterile environment and don’t be too fussy about general hygiene until you fly, in my case 3 months. It is essential to build up resistance he told me.
His advise has served me well, while working in the hills on the Thai/Burma border and now back home. I later learned that his specialism was virology and had served for 16 years as a Medical Missionary in Borneo.
July 26, 2021
@Dave King; But we are not talking here about the common illnesses, as much as the hard right social media wants to push the ‘Common cold, stop cowering’ message.
In some parts of the world YOU might be the one to import serious illnesses, without thought, true for you such illness would be common and hardly worth thinking about but for others they could well be deadly, even today the common cold could wipe out an entire Amazonian tribe.
July 26, 2021
Jerry, By contrast, you are pushing the hard left message that your wellbeing is my responsibility. It isn’t, let me tell you. Your demand that I should protect you is the definition of selfishness.
July 27, 2021
@NickC; No, not hard left, they are no more empathetic to others than you & the hard right are. I have no time for either, both factions are the real definition of self-centred selfishness -personified, both hate having to live by the majority wish, be it social or political. Hence why when Mrs Thatcher, in an interview to Woman’s Own, talked about the roll of society both the hard right and hard left leaped to incorrect assumptions as to what she meant.
July 27, 2021
My empathy is not yours to command, Jerry.
July 26, 2021
And yet, they arenāt.
July 26, 2021
On the contrary, Jerry, Peter Woods is exactly correct. Our immune system needs constant exposure to pathogens to function correctly. Even “remembering” pathogens we’ve never been exposed to provided we are exposed to a normal range. See Prof Mark Davis et al of Stanford University School of Medicine, Feb 2013. “It may even provide an evolutionary clue about why kids eat dirt”, said Prof Davis.
July 27, 2021
@NickC; Nonsense on stilts, otherwise why not simply expose people to say the live Ebola or Rabies pathogens! Might the reason be that to do so would be in effect a ‘Kill or Cure’ approach to immunity, totally unethical.
July 27, 2021
Who do I trust, Jerry – you, or the professor of microbiology and immunology at Stanford university?
July 26, 2021
+1
To live a sterile life means risking inability to build up immunity.
July 26, 2021
Bush. Agree. I caught normal flu 30 years ago badly and felt ill for 3 weeks. I’ve not had flu or a cold ever since.
July 28, 2021
I agree Jerry , the binary choice is absurd. People have had to suffer inexorably to achieve a state of immunity which is not only picked up in childhood , but passed from mother to foetus in utero and with a national programme of immunisation.. It is not worth arguing with these numpties.
July 26, 2021
Peter Wood, +1
Thank you for the good common sense. This is how the world works. The obsessions with so much fatuous detail continues to play into the hands of those who wish for ever more control. You can not control the virus regardless of the Howard Hughes sterility standards.
Like the endless āNegotiationsā with the EU, it does not advance the cause in any practical sense but only gives a false validity to a narrative which should be closed down like the dodgy spiel of any fast talking spiv.
P.W., may your good sense prevail, because it must.
July 26, 2021
Peter Wood
Ah indeed true.
If you had a live grub on your lettuce…..the lettuce was considered clean and safe to eat.
Head split open?…. no problem. School secretary would rub (New Zealand) butter on it and all would be well.
July 26, 2021
Correct Peter
Heard immunity was the cure for the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic
July 26, 2021
And our freedom would go out of the window if labour ever get back into power with most of there MPs wanting to rejoin the dreaded Eu and the trade unions wanting to bring the country to a standstill with Unions on a mission to paralyse Britain by telling key workers in transport and food delivery to IGNORE their exemptions from the pingdemic – AND they are threatening to strike
July 26, 2021
The people upon whom we depend day-to-day completely are food workers, bin emptiers and the likes.
They are not estate agents, rentier landlords and the other parasite classes.
Labour would see as a priority that the first get some kind of fair standing.
July 26, 2021
Unfortunately this area is looking very much like it would in a general strike. We are in our second week on non-bin collection and the rubbish is stacking up in the streets.
In what sort of pandemic do people deliberately go out of their way (with their phones on) to expose themselves to the infected ? And in what sort of pandemic do people punch the air and say “Yay ! Six days off !!!” when they are told they’ve been exposed ?
This has been a socialist’s wet dream from start to finish.
July 26, 2021
+1
Pinging to tell you, you might be ill. It’s as illogical as using false positive tests to claim there are x number of cases, but fail to say how many people are actually ill.
July 26, 2021
As I say. The people getting ping’d. The very last thing they’re thinking is “OMG. I’m gonna die of Covid.”
So what sort of pandemic is this ?
July 26, 2021
+1 I agree with you J Bush
July 26, 2021
@NLA; “”In what sort of pandemic do people deliberately go out of their way (with their phones on) to expose themselves to the infected ?”
Perhaps those who take heed of the messages coming out of Downing Street?!
Also, that T&T app, carries on monitoring unless either deleted or the battery is removed, whilst the Bluetooth sensitivity is such you do not apparently need to be in the same room or building, or perhaps these people are just simply leaving their phones in personal lockers at work, thus another person (who is never interacted with due to staggered shift pattern) becomes infected and the entire row of locker owners gets pinged – who signed off on this worst than useless app, Downing Street, I wonder what the current rate of deletion is for the app…
July 26, 2021
Itās called Brexit. The people who used to drive your bin lorries went home to Europe. And you leave voters havenāt replaced them. Go on. Go and clear rubbish for England.
July 26, 2021
Errr all of our bin men are isolating and I already pick up litter.
July 26, 2021
Twaddle Andy
They’ve been pinged by track and trace.
Get your facts right.
July 26, 2021
There are problems in every country with untargeted national lockdowns (UNLs), Andy. We told you so, but you wanted more, longer, harsher UNLs with more curtain-twitchers, more police, more jail. The problems we have – the “pingdemic”, millions isolating – are lockdown related and nothing to do with Brexit. Similarly, your complaints about “Brexit”, turn out to be problems with continuing EU control over us, not with being outside the EU like Canada.
July 26, 2021
Desperate.
July 26, 2021
They’ve been pinged because there are lots of infected people about – one in seventy-five.
The world is watching the experiment that this excuse for a government are carrying out mainly on our young, and with mounting horror.
July 26, 2021
Yet 6 million have applied for settled status. Just think what would happen to house prices and rents if the whole 6 million did go home. How on earth did we manage to get the bins collected before freedom of movement.
July 27, 2021
@NickC; Wrong again, there was no issue with all these essential workers getting pinged by the NHS app during Lockdown, the problems have started since the start to unlocking, and has got worse with every stage as the pubs, sporting venues and now clubs etc. have been allowed to increasingly reopen. Even Downing Street are telling us not to read much into the recent stats showing a downward spike in infections, data largely from before all legally enforceable social distancing rules were removed.
July 27, 2021
Jerry, Forcing people to isolate in their own homes is lockdown.
July 26, 2021
MiC
“They are not estate agents, rentier landlords and the other parasite classes.”
Excuse me, I’m a landlord, are you calling me a parasite ?
Kindly note I also do hard physical graft for a living and I pay my taxes.
July 26, 2021
Just think, Martin, if your friends in China had actually done their job and contained covid19 in Wuhan, instead of letting it escape into the world, we wouldn’t have had these untargeted national lockdowns that you drool over.
July 26, 2021
Well, there have been no variants from China since, have there me ol’ china?
Whereas we have gifted the world at least one more contagious, from Kent.
Travellers from the UK are banned or quarantined by more countries than almost any other – and for good reason.
July 27, 2021
Always an excuse for China, eh, Martin? There would have been “no variants” if the Chinese communist government had done its job in containing covid19 within Wuhan.
July 27, 2021
I’m quite sure that if they’d been aware of its existence then they would have done something about it immediately.
I wonder what would have happened if it had arisen in this country instead?
I’m making no excuses for anyone. It’s simply a fact that the Chinese extinguished their epidemic, so there have been no further variants from there.
It seems that most countries accept that too, because travellers from China are subject to fewer restrictions than are those from here.
I’m not sure why you’re so sniffy about China anyway. You’d make the UK a single-party state too if you could, wouldn’t you?
July 27, 2021
You seem an intelligent and enquiring person MiC
Cynical even.
Yet you accept everything China tells you.
Very strange.
July 27, 2021
No, I accept what independent observers in China tell me about it.
July 28, 2021
What observers in China are independent?
Do you mean their mates in the UN?
July 28, 2021
Well, my daughter lived and worked there for a year for one, and there are many, many like her.
July 28, 2021
Billions of people in China and a huge land mass yet Marty knows everything that goes on all over China because he knows a few mates who live there.
Hilarious.
Keep swallowing the propaganda.
July 28, 2021
As I say, most countries around the world allow far freer travel from China than they do from the plague island UK.
So it seems that they believe what the WHO and many westerners in China have to say about it too, doesn’t it, Pete?
July 26, 2021
It is inevitable we will rejoin the EU. The vast majority of under 50s loathe your silly Brexit and find the behaviour of your incompetent, dishonest, law breaking government abhorrent.
Most of you voted leave because you donāt like foreigners. Most young people really donāt care about foreigners. When old people are done the reason for leaving is gone.
Meanwhile all your silly Brexit bureaucracy and the freedoms you have stolen from us will start to rankle in ways you cannot possibly imagine.
July 26, 2021
Utter nonsense. Of course we like foreigners, which is why we go to visit them in their own countries to observe their way of life. As for not caring about who enters the country, perhaps we should invite the Taliban after they finish up in Afghanistan.
July 26, 2021
I think you will find we actually have.
July 26, 2021
What a hilarious rant, Andy. Young people will get used to the extra freedoms of being outside EU bureaucratic and undemocratic control. Only the middle-class middle-aged Remains, like yourself, unable to learn, and resistant to new ideas, will drift into old age still bitter about the result.
As for not liking foreigners, where do you get that from? The issue was excessive immigration – officially 9.2 million not born here, probably at least 15m – not who they are.
As for your pompous threat: “in ways you cannot possibly imagine” it sounds like some 4th rate melodrama from the 1950s regurgitated onto Netflix so we can all have a laugh. At you.
July 27, 2021
What “extra freedoms”?
Come on?
July 26, 2021
They wonāt have us again!
Mr. Redwood, I am surprised you allow this tiresome nonsense on your web site. It borders on hate speech when he gets on his āpensionersā hobby horse.
July 27, 2021
No, as it stands, several countries in the European Union would veto the rejoining of a country where the people elect governments like the present one, and understandably so.
Their union is founded on the values of the Enlightenment.
July 27, 2021
The “values of the Enlightenment” being self-serving technocracy, bureaucracy, corruption and dirigisme, eh, Martin?
July 26, 2021
Mick
“And our freedom would go out of the window if labour ever get back into power ”
In order to throw Johnson out that might be necessary. Both just as bad as each other but now it’s all about revenge & punishment. Forget fixing the country, it’s beyond repair thanks to the likes of Blair, May & Johnson.
July 26, 2021
Not worth the risk. What we must do is vote for one of the nascent right wing parties, Reclaim, Reform or UKIP who will hopefully unite to form a meaningful opposition to the socialists.
July 26, 2021
Good morning.
So where has the Human Rights and its ambulance chasing lawyers been ? I seem to remember that there is a, ‘right to family life’. For what good this piece of misguided piece of legislation it has not served the decent honest folk of these lands one bit.
July 26, 2021
Mark, as I’m sure you are well aware, governments across the world have intervened in everyone’s lives in order to deal with the pandemic, and if they hadn’t – no matter how well or badly – everyone would be up in arms shouting about how “the government is supposed to protect its peoples, what’s the point of having a government if it cannot stop other people doing things that are likely to harm ME”, etc etc.
For all the bluster and hot air I read on here (and elsewhere) about how government in one country has been brilliant and in another one appalling, as data is carefully selected to back up arguments, I can’t help wondering how well ANY of us would have done had we been tasked with dealing with such an issue.
July 26, 2021
SM
Not all governments chose lockdowns and not all governments created damaging legislation. The government had the Civil Contingencies Legislation but chose to ignore it as it requires the government to repeatedly check with parliament. The new legislation removed that safeguard. We were frightened into handing over our liberties to self styled Lord Protector and his Star Chamber of so called experts. It worries me that you and many many others have failed to see this.
July 26, 2021
Perhaps my view of civil liberties has been conditioned by living for more than a year under S Africa’s handling of the situation – fluster, bluster, governmental missteps leading to catastrophic further levels of unemployment and conditions ripe for insurgencies.
July 26, 2021
There have been many lockdowns in Australia, national, state, local over the last year and a half. They have all been lifted so far. Why do you think this time it will be permanent?
July 26, 2021
Some had lockdowns, others didn’t. Nobody knew the right course of action so took advice from their scientists. Either could have been right or wrong, it is impossible to know now what might have happened in either case. Every country is different and we are very densely populated. There has been no real parliament during this pandemic. Hindsight is 20:20 vision.
July 26, 2021
SM, in fact data in scientific research IS ‘selected’. It’s selected to test a hypothesis. Say for example, you were considering the hypothesis that lockdowns reduce deaths from a virus infection. Then what you would do is compare a place that did lock down, such as Britain, with a place that didn’t, such as Sweden. You’d try and make the places you investigate as comparable as possible, as for example North Dakota in the US which locked down, and South Dakota, which didn’t. Then you’d look at the outcome data. You find that Britain had about as many ‘Covid deaths’ as Sweden, and North Dakota about as many as South Dakota. So you conclude that on the evidence (and there’s plenty more beside those examples) lockdowns don’t significantly prevent virus deaths.
You could then examine another hypothesis, such as early tracking of infection, as in South Korea, and compare that with a country like Britain, which failed to track infection early. You find that Sth Korea had far fewer Covid 19 deaths pro rata. That suggest that early tracking might be an effective solution. More data like that will support the hypothesis.
You could investigate whether introducing ‘track and trace’ some months into an epidemic, as Britain did, restricted the spread of the virus better than in Sweden, which didn’t. Looking at outcomes, you find no advantage to the British approach.
A government pursuing this approach would genuinely be ‘following the science’. Ours isn’t and hasn’t been.
July 26, 2021
I think thatās a fair point to address early stage responses.
But we know more now – we know from various studies that masks have limited utility, being outside and taking exercise is generally a Good Thing, and that the number of people dying āwithā Covid is different from those dying āofā Covid.
We also have seen repeated attempts by the modellers to predict outcomes with the media continuously picking on worst case outcomes – only for peaks to pass before the emergency measures are even enactedā¦
I could go on – but the gist is that times have changed , knowledge has improved, and yet we continue to have a government in thrall to a group of zealots in SAGE and Unions and public sector workers having a lovely time being pingedā¦.
Enough!
July 26, 2021
SM
Agreed dammed if they do, dammed if they didn’t, Obviously the Government made mistakes, as all have done all over the World.
Some mistakes looked quite obvious to some people at the time, others much less so.
Armchair hind-site is a wonderful gift, which few people have or are aware of “in advance”.
Few have a crystal ball, so you try to follow the facts for a solution, the problem is different people have different facts and in some cases few facts at all, thus suggest different solutions are suggested, then when the so called facts change you need different solutions again.
We are now in a different World with a working vaccine, and thank goodness with more than one available, but then we have many people that have different opinions on that score as well.
I think overall the Government has done reasonably well, and the opposition Parties have for the most part agreed, so whoever was in power the situation here would not have changed much.
Yes money has been wasted, yes freedoms have been curtailed, yes businesses have been dramatically affected, and again with the knowledge of hind site perhaps things would have been different ,but how much different, it may have been far worse, we will never know !
July 26, 2021
Mark B – Right to family life is only used by our replacements who “can’t go back” so use it to get their whole famlies here, for more freebies off whitey’s taxes. Goodbye England. 30 to 40 years and the country will be have been destroyed. Thank God I’m old now, there is NOTHING for the young to look forward to.
July 26, 2021
22000 young blokes expected to arrive by RNLI this year.
Then how many family members to follow ?
We could easily be looking at several Premier football stadia numbers of people a year by this route alone.
July 26, 2021
For Andy to have supported the abuse of a cherished charity by traffickers and then blame people like me for withdrawing our funding fits the definition of gaslighting perfectly.
(I hope you’ve remembered to set up your Ā£40 a month DD, Andy.)
July 26, 2021
It is already destroyed. But government and other aspects of administration and academia deny it and deny our views. Who in government protects and promotes our cultural behaviours and English heritage? They are only interested in promoting diversity and inclusivity – all of this dimishes and destroys the indiginous beliefs. At the same time they promote foreign cultures.
July 26, 2021
+1 100% I agree with all you post Prangwizard
July 27, 2021
The Globalists know that to create their New World Order prosperous and mainly homogenous western societies have to be flooded with 3rd world immigrants.
July 26, 2021
The HRA only protects you against abuses by the State.
It does not offer any protections against a private employer however, who can ban an employee’s free speech both in and OUT of work, and impose terms which prevent a normal family life.
But hey, that’s Tory employment law, and YOU voted for it.
Freedom?
MA
July 26, 2021
You’re the one who wanted longer, harsher, stronger untargeted state imposed national lockdowns, Martin, not me. Those took my liberties away far far more than any employer ever did.
July 26, 2021
No, I wanted better, more specific approaches, but lockdowns were better than NOTHING the only other Tory alternative, that is all.
But put words in mouths as ever, do.
July 27, 2021
“better more specific approaches”
Could you get any more vague MiC?
July 27, 2021
Martin, You frequently praised the harsher lockdown in China.
July 27, 2021
Could you get any more remote from my original post Pete?
July 27, 2021
I will try Marty.
I actually quoted you.
How close do you want?
July 27, 2021
So what do you think of my original point, that a private employer can ban free speech among his staff – even out of work – but the State cannot?
Do you think that employment law should allow that?
July 28, 2021
Depends whether you wanted to reveal corporate secrets which could damage the company or just have a rant about something that has nothing to do with your job or the company you work for.
Your question is too widely set and undefined to be able to make a definitive answer.
And the State has the powers in the Official Secrets Act so your last claim is also nonsense.
July 28, 2021
OK, let’s be specific.
Do you think that a swimwear manufacturer, say, should be allowed to fire a staff member for tweeting – out of work hours – that they agree with France’s ban on certain religious garments?
Because almost identical cases have happened, haven’t they?
Let’s be clear – only the private sector can do this, thanks to HRA’s effect on the State.
July 26, 2021
“After many months of looking to the state to guide or control our actions we need to rebuild individual and family responsibility quickly and comprehensively.”
But people are generally selfish, if they were not we would need few if any other laws, our moral compasses would lead us to make the correct, sensible or empathetic decisions. Why else, after 14+ months of the NHS T&T app/system do we now have a “pingdemic” crisis, what changed, other than the attitude towards the legally backed public health guidance – and this was happening before the final round of unlocking just one week ago.
July 26, 2021
The vaccine is what changed !!! Why are you ignoring it ???
July 26, 2021
@NLA; So why “Pingdemic”?…
Two problems. 1/. Currently the UK is nowhere close to the adult population having the fullest possible immunity by way of vaccines, true the vast majority of adults have one dose now. 2/. The vaccine does not stop you catching the virus, it just (hopefully) stops you from becoming seriously ill, and hopefully stops so infected people spreading the virus to others but no one knows what camp their immune system sits in until infected.
We do indeed need to learn to live with this virus, few disagree, but we need to learn to do things differently, from work to social attitudes, or build a lot more (isolation?) hospitals, this virus and its variants are not going away – to use a cricketing metaphor, nature has bowled us a googly, we need to improve our batting skills, not hope the umpire will declare a no-ball!
July 26, 2021
It’s a suspicion that they are using the algo rithms of the Premium Bo nd to select those to Ping!
July 26, 2021
You do love circular arguments, Jerry. Apparently if we were not so “selfish” our “moral compasses” would work better! Amazing. But God preserve me from those who would “unselfishly” control me for my own good. Selfishness is one of the least of our problems. No doubt you’d say if we all behaved better, we’d all behave better.
July 27, 2021
@NickC; For pity sake, it is you who engages in circular arguments, the more unthinking, the more selfish, a minority becomes the more controls need to be imposed on them (and the majority)!
Try reading what I said again, this time from the top, I actually said we would need few (if any) laws were we living in such a selflessness utopia were people are sensible & empathetic towards others. It is because many people are utterly self-centred (selfish) -for who you always seem to bat for, suggesting you are one- that the state has to impose so many blanket laws and regulations that then disproportionally impact on those who would have done the sensible thing anyway, as time and place demand.
July 27, 2021
How is saying that if people were not so selfish, we’d be less selfish (ie make more “empathetic decisions” – as defined by you), not a circular argument, Jerry?
July 26, 2021
Certainly we must see “…an airflow revolution in health settings and public places…”, the better to be ready for future viruses as well as living with Covid in all its varied forms.
(Clearly, the dangerously useless Public Health England ought to have addressed this matter in its planning but its myopic approach seemed to cope only with influenza-type pandemics.)
July 26, 2021
“seemed to cope only with influenza-type pandemics” That escaped me. All I remember hearing from PHE was endless warnings about fags, booze, sugar and salt.
July 26, 2021
May I suggest that the game-changer in this fight will be the roll-out of COVID ‘sniffer’ technology. Autumn and winter will soon be upon us, the technology is far advanced and yet the government doesn’t seem to have a plan. Perhaps some questions in the chamber are warranted.
Changing subject, a little, I’m disappointed to see that Johnson and Javid have left Shapps out in the cold and now seem set on screwing up the holiday plans of millions of Britis. Here’s another question in need of answering: what percentage of double-jabbed Brits returning from Greece, having had their ‘pre-departure’ tests, are subsequently failing their post-arrival PCRs?
July 26, 2021
Do you mean Koniku’s “smell cyborgā? It looks like the sort of thing we might all be required to wear as a lapel badge or even as an earring. It might be ready for Christmas, ideal for your loved one. It will probably generate false alarms from cooking smells. Let you off chopping onions. So longs as lemons, gin and tonic don’t upset it!
July 26, 2021
By not wearing a mask and by refusing to social distance you can – quite literally – kill someone.
Parliament bans drink driving because it can kill people. Parliament doesnāt let me smoke cannabis should I want to because of some spurious reason or other related to harm.
We know, right now, masks and social distancing can save lives – so why should you get the freedom to kill others? How about, for the time being, we give everyone the freedom not to be killed by people too selfish to wear a mask?
Wear your mask. Stop moaning about it. Itāll only be for the next few years.
July 26, 2021
The Lancet affirms observations support a predominantly airborne route of transmission. The vast majority of masks worn outside of a laboratory setting are only marginally effective against droplet-borne infections and totally or mostly ineffective against airborne infections.
There is no published evidence that urging the public to wear masks will has saved lives.
July 26, 2021
And yet, millions of people in the far east wear masks and have done for donkey’s years. Don’t know if they are forced to, but I see no reason not to wear one for the time being, at least until we have more herd immunity. As I understand it this virus is droplet transmitted not airborne, so even marginal is some effect. Incorrect wearing of masks, i.e. using the same one for weeks on end and wearing it under the nose, I can see is a problem, but why not show a little care for others, even if the effect is marginal?
July 26, 2021
Graham, you are probably not aware that the millions who have worn masks in the far east for years have mostly done so to reduce the amount of pollution that they inhale.
You’re quite right about the incorrect wearing of masks. Another reason for scrapping them. Showing care for others in the good old days involved keeping one’s bugs to oneself, ie. not taking even the slightest cold to the supermarket, or to work, or keeping our distance when leaving the house was necessary.
We need to go back to individual responsibility, and trusting our fellow citizens again too. The Government’s over-reaction to this virus, particularly when it was realised that the virus was manageable, has set citizen against citizen. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I’d say their policy over the past 16 months has been ‘divide and rule’.
I look forward to the Coronavirus Act 2020 being repealed when it comes up for debate for the third time in September. The lack of checking and debate by MPs in Parliament since March 2020 has enabled the Prime Minister and his cabal to ride rough-shod over our democracy.
July 26, 2021
I think the habit of mask wearing originated from the appalling smogs and pollution endemic to newly industrialising economies that refused to learn from the developed economies. It is no secret that China, India, etc, are building hundreds of new dirty burn coal-fired electricity generating plants to add to their existing pollution.
July 26, 2021
Matthu. Quite right. In fact there is a thought that because people are not putting on and taking off their masks carefully and wearing the same one time after time they could actually be spreading the virus or catching the virus this way. They don’t clean their hands (how many people do I see entering supermarkets without sanitising) then after maybe coming into contact with the virus they remove their mask, chuck it in the car or handbag and then put it on again without cleaning their hands and so introducing germs to their faces. I don’t wear mine anymore and I’m not bothering with social distancing either.
July 26, 2021
May I suggest you patent a mask to fit over the cabin air-intake of your Tesla?
If EV nonsense predictions are true you’d make ‘a killing’.
July 26, 2021
@MT; Most modern cars do have cabin air filters in the intake, to stop not only dust but certain pathogens, it is also the reason why most manufactures recommend the use of screen wash additives, many washer bottles being a perfect breading grounds for bacteria etc.
July 26, 2021
Not such a good breeding ground as masks though.
July 27, 2021
@FUS; I agree, those reusable masks are good breeding grounds (washable masks are not much better), not so single use masks, after all they have not been killing surgeons and nurses for the last 100+ years…
July 26, 2021
I don’t think the cabin air filters currently deal with Covid particles, but would like to know if Andy’s wonder EV vehicles do – write to Elon Musk.
July 26, 2021
Yay!
Masks for cars!
A whole new industry.
July 26, 2021
Emotional blackmail from you all the time, Andy. Why are you ignoring the vaccine ?
Going by your argument you should minimise all of your activities. And you are more likely to kill someone driving your car intoxicated or not. So stop driving your car.
The mask is a serious infringement on liberty – the inability to communicate naturally, show one’s face and the simple pleasure of breathing fresh air.
They are permanent.
This is forever. Not ‘just a few years’.
Etc ed
July 26, 2021
Mask wearing is authoritarian, deeply contrary to Western social norms, and its clinical usefulness is unsupported by any informed science whatsoever. So I’m not surprised to find you cheerleading for it. ‘Only for the next few years’, FFS.
I suppose a mask night be effective if it were 100% airtight. Maybe you should try that and report back on how many lives you’ve saved.
July 26, 2021
“I suppose a mask night be effective if it were 100% airtight”
The only ones which are 100% airtight (assuming they have been properly fitted AND TESTED) also have “Exhale Valves”. This means they provide ZERO protection for anyone else nearby…
July 26, 2021
ā…Parliament bans drink driving because it can kill peopleā¦ā – true enough, but it does not ban driving, also an activity that can kill people but without needing the agency of alcohol.
To be assuredly effective, mask wearing (which I still do undertake myself) requires a number of routines and protocols that typically will not be applied by the untrained (and likely unaware) public. Not least it requires good quality masks (likely for Covid with closer mesh than are generally sold), properly donned and worn. Further and clearly enough, the prospective wearer needs to be infected and spreading a viral load of sufficient quantity to pose hazard to those (uninfected and unvaccinated themselves) within range. I do not overlook that those in range and vaccinated are at some risk but not of death typically.
Practically, mask wearing is not going to be assuredly effective and the risk posed to the population at large (who should soon all be vaccinated save for those who volunteer to accept the risks of not so being) is of doubtful strength and the balance of competing factors is insufficiently weighted in its favour to strongly suggest that mandating universal mask wearing would perhaps make as much sense as banning use of motor vehicles.
July 26, 2021
Andy
“Parliament doesnāt let me smoke cannabis should I want to because of some spurious reason or other related to harm.”
Aaaaaah, now we see what it is š
July 26, 2021
Andy
“By not wearing a mask and by refusing to social distance you can ā quite literally ā kill someone.”
Same can be achieved by letting a deadly virus into the country – ask your Prime Minister about this.
July 26, 2021
How many times??
Masks do not stop a virus š¦
July 26, 2021
BB
“Masks do not stop a virus”
Why did the government spend Ā£millions on masks then, why were the NHS Staff and care Home staff so upset when it looked like they would be in short supply.
Perhaps not 100 % effective, but surely better than nothing.
July 27, 2021
Different masks have different capabilities, Alan. Most of the masks used by the public are next to useless.
July 26, 2021
Is that because the masks arenāt air positive, with the virus size smaller than material used or in-correct fitting of masks to make a tight seal, meaning the virus can just go though or around 99.9% of masks in use
July 27, 2021
No, they stop the virus-laden droplets, thousands of times larger, which is how covid19 is transmitted.
The virus itself – unlike some others – is NOT airborne any other significant way.
How many times?
July 26, 2021
Once again you are being rather disingenuous, Andy.
Not wearing a mask if you are fully vaccinated is extremely unlikely to kill anyone else who has been similarly immunised.
In my view, anyone refusing the vaccine is bringing any resulting consequences on themselves.
July 26, 2021
Children are not offered the vaccine.
July 26, 2021
I confess, despite extensive searches, I cannot find the statistic that evidences not wearing a mask kills others.
However, what I do have evidence of, from different parts of the country, is FOI requests for the number of burials and deaths between 2015 and 2020, which shows last year statistics were within the annual average. How odd! The country wasn’t told to wear masks in 2015 onwards.
So young Andy, please provide this evidence that wearing a mask saves another’s life? I await your lack of response as confirmation of your lies…
July 26, 2021
Your obvious desire to stir contributors’ wrath is becoming so strong that the result is now feeble. Do try and be more subtle, Andy. Your contributions have given many a hearty guffaw, but you’re becoming unimaginative now.
July 26, 2021
Dont own one Mate!
But dont object to you making an idiot of yourself with you comfort blanket round yer gob
July 26, 2021
I read yesterday an expert – yes, an expert – saying that the masks most of us have been wearing are completely pointless. The virus passes straight through them. The whole thing is a farce.
Social distancing should surely carry on forever. You never know what the person next to you is infected with. Unless you have just had sex with them.
July 27, 2021
‘Social distancing should surely carry on forever. You never know what the person next to you is infected with. Unless you have just had sex with them.’
Even then you can’t be sure!!
July 26, 2021
So are we being forced into passports (aka compulsory injections) or not?
No means yes and yes means no. See the vids of the āVaccine Ministerā saying first a definite āNoā followed by a huge U turn.
As far as I am concerned Johnson has sucked out everything worthwhile and enjoyable from life.
July 26, 2021
@EH; Are you being forced to attend those venues were such vaccine passports may become compulsory, if not how are vaccines becoming compulsory? They are no more compulsory than a driving licence, of indeed travel passports, if you do not drive, do not travel, you do not need to hold either – which the Govt is conveniently forgetting when they talk about the need for Voter ID.
July 26, 2021
I was asking whether the government had actually made up its mind.
However, what it is threatening to do is coercion like āNo jab no jobā.
July 26, 2021
That is a fallacious argument, Jerry. In a free country you can go where you please without the government’s “permission”. And unfortunately these restrictions tend to become the thin end of the wedge, simply because people are too idle, or too precious, to protest about loss of liberty where it doesn’t impinge initially on themselves.
July 26, 2021
+1
July 27, 2021
@NickC; Yours is the fallacious argument, given your never ending list of demands for laws or regulations (a social Libertarian you most certainly are not), for example that people should not be free to arrive on our shores via inflatables, that the Home Office are right to crack down that and other ‘crimes’; why you support the laws that require trade unions to hold secrete postal ballots [1] stopping them from holding such votes by a collective show of hands in the company car park, laws that stop or restrict collective bargaining, flying pickets etc.
I doubt even you really want to live in a “free country” devoid of all laws and regulation, after all one persons just law is another’s abuse of state power and thus their personal freedoms, as I have suggested before, I doubt the majority wish to see self-describing ‘harmless’ (and many no doubt are) nudists walking up the High Street, or sunbathing in the park opposite a school, and even if they did, what of those whose idea of nudism is not so much the worship of a Sun God but Aphrodite!…
[1] whilst demanding parliamentary postal ballots be restricted
July 27, 2021
Shouldn’t we look at the particulars of each law, Jerry, rather than you just making a sweeping condemnation of a “never ending list of demands for laws” I’m supposed to have?
The plain fact is a driving licence does not control where you go, but a vaccine passport does, on pain of the government controlling what goes into your body.
July 26, 2021
Like Woody Allen said, ‘I could live to be 100 years old if I gave up everything that would make me want to live to be 100 years old’.
July 26, 2021
āI believe there is something out there watching us. Unfortunately, it’s the government.ā
ā Woody Allen
July 26, 2021
The government is losing its grip. Comment in the DT this morning. No more needs saying.
July 26, 2021
Indeed. Ithas simply given up, capitulated to the anti-lockdown lobby. It is a gamble. It might pay off. it might not. Its decision to open up last year was at least a calculated risk and was wrong: the second wave ensued. this time the decision is not based on risk analysis beyond the risk of rebellion among Tory back benches and some ministers. While the number of cases has dropped in the last week, hospital admissions, the number of patients in ICUs and confirmed deaths continue to rise. The only question is whether on the one hand, the NHS will be unable to cope and increase waiting lists further, or once more throw out the old and vulnerable, or, on the other hand, whether there will be a public outcry at the resulting number of deaths arising from a deliberate Government policy decision to expose them to coronavirus.
I remember when Anders Tegnell was almost accused of trying to achieve herd immunity in Sweden by letting coronavirus run free. He denied it, of course, and replied that it would cause a very large number of deaths and would be immoral. How many deaths does the UK government intend to allow to avoid accusations of immorality? As far as I can tell nobody is even asking the question.
The Government has not a clue as to the answer to these questions and neither has anyone else. Perhaps there is a bookie somewhere assessing the odds.
July 26, 2021
If that were true then we’d see something like Heathrow Border Force staff leaving their busy desks to head down to Kent to deal with dingyists, while the army remains in its barracks. Oh, wait! I have no confidence in Johnson’s government.
July 26, 2021
The government has a firm grip – on us!
July 26, 2021
The trouble is at the moment, too many people are unable to or canāt be bothered to see the big picture with regards to our freedoms. Either theyāve been so terrorised they cling on to mask wearing and of restraining othersā freedoms to keep them āsafeā; or āIām all right Jack, Iām happy to stop others going to places I donāt likeā; or theyāre a bit laissez faire about the idea of digital ID, arguing that we have drivers licenses or passports already.
More people are waking up to whatās happening, but the introduction of a social credit system seems to be being accelerated. How do we stop this incredible situation, dead in its tracks? Apart from enough people refusing to comply!?
July 26, 2021
Maybe by airing different and differing scientific views ( so far suppressed by paid for media and government) and thus arriving at a more balanced response.
Maybe by applying logic to the situation.
Why would a government which is prepared to destroy everything to āsaveā us also deny us access to healthcare for nearly two years?
Maybe make the history of these things more transparent? Refer to the swine flu fiasco c2009 ( not as successful as this attempt at a commie take over and roundly exposed on tv news as a fraud). Look at what happened in Africa with the Ebola vaccination roll out and how the WHO ( and a drug company) set a precedent for a protocol allowing trials to be cut from 9 years to just months. And how Africa got fed up with being the ātest bedā for so many vaccines and harms.
Let us all remember what would have happened three years ago had we wandered into a bank wearing a full face covering!
Make NO MISTAKE the people rooting for all this are only doing it to destroy the country and our way of life. Shout it from the rooftops before itās too late!
It is not to do with any virus!
July 26, 2021
Sharon
Re your first para:
Yes I agree entirely, and it’s the I’m alright Jack selfish virtue signallers giving Johnson’s government ammunition to force the rest of us into debt whith these stupid EV’s and heating systems that keep you slightly warm. They also don’t care a hoot about what this country fought against during the years of fascist tyranny, they think it’s ‘trendy’ to have to show your papers. Hence they will gormlessly assist Johnson’s plan to sneak ID cards through the back door. And they will be the first to moan when they find themselves living in a quasi-gestapo state.
Incredibly selfish ignorant people, usually liberals who cause problems for others, which is why I call them ’causers’.
If you drive a car you’ll see what I mean: these people will completely ignore right of way and stop to let other vehicles past a line of parked cars on the opposite side of the road. They feel they have to be ‘thanked’ for something every so often. A couple of thank you waves is more important because it makes THEM feel good about themselves, it never crosses their selfish little minds they’re actually holdng up dozens of people who do have the right of way.
The very same idiots who will lock their brakes to let someone use a pedestrian crossing, despite the fact that the pedestrian did’nt want to cross the road and was not even at the crossing.
Very stupid people, but highly dangerous if left unchallenged.
July 26, 2021
Actually, some of us think about it, do some research and conclude you and others of your view are just scaremongering.
July 26, 2021
Sharon, Just so. A driving licence merely indicates you have reached a minimum level of competence in handling a 1 or 2 ton piece of machinery in public, without preventing you going anywhere. In contrast a “vaccine passport” tells you what you must do to your own body on pain of being prevented from going where you want.
July 26, 2021
Social distancing and mask wearing would have been better retained in certain settings for the time being, e.g. public transport, shops. If left to individual choice, they will be neglected too frequently.
July 26, 2021
Wokinghamite – In Wokingham since 23rd March this year, there has been just 1 death within 28 days of a positive Covid test. You can find this on the government’s coronavirus.data.gov.uk website. One death in four months. The seasonal respiratory disease epidemic is over.
Perhaps some Wokingham people are more aware of that than you are.
Not bothering to do something that is now pointless is not a matter of ‘neglect’.
July 26, 2021
Freedoms? – – There is no freedom of speech – in case we offend someone who has arrived here with totally different views – but they can walk our streets demanding “infidels are slaughtered” – with no prosecution.
Freedoms? – the most watched nation on earth. cctv AND elrctronically, Tracked by ANPR, credit card and ATM usage, trackers on every new car, Covid passports to go anywhere, etc etc.
Yet thousads a year, we know nothing about, arrive and give any story they want, any ID they say they are. And our govt say they are all scientists, doctors, surgeons etc.
July 26, 2021
Freedomā¦alasā¦we now have none!
July 26, 2021
Bigneil , +1
July 26, 2021
‘There is no freedom of speech ā in case we offend someone ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦.
with totally different views’
as the knife in the face of Hatun Tash yesterday at Speaker’s Corner showed. Is this sufficiently unspecific for you to print, JR?
Reply. I do not publish comments about alleged criminals as they need to be properly investigated and stand trial where there is evidence.
July 26, 2021
big Neil +100
July 26, 2021
Once freedom is surrendered to the State, even for good reason like Covid, the State is very reluctant to return it. The State is averse to returning power. Just consider the outcome of David Cameron’s decision to hold a referendum in 2016, and it has yet to be resolved. Providing government persists with the vaccination programme and follow up vaccinations as necessary I see no reason why people should not be left to conduct lives as they see fit.
You emphasise the need for good air flows, with which I agree. Thinking about the Big Stink of Victorian times and its sewer solution, has anyone ever considered noxious air extraction from our city streets. We all mostly have extractors over our hobs so why not extend the principal to the streets, removing all that the ICE produces.
July 28, 2021
Of course brexit is a mess, having generated numerous intractable problems.
Leave was pushed on the ridiculous assertion that getting divorced is the same as never having been married in the first place.
And many of you comically still demand that it magically be made like this.
July 26, 2021
After many months of looking to the state to guide or control our actions
I think you mean “of the state looking to control our actions” Sir John.
July 26, 2021
+1
July 26, 2021
We need to teach folk personal Risk Management as some have gone paranoid with isolation whilst others go berserk with freedom. Compared to his folk survive in poorer countries we must appear jibbering wrecks to them…..
July 26, 2021
I doubt the folk from poor countries have any view on UK behaviour. They are too busy trying to survive.
The rule in the UK has been to avoid all forms of risk and competition, health and safety would you believe. If they have all been avoiding risk how do they assess it, they don’t, as you say they over react one way or another. We are in sore need of a life reset button.
July 26, 2021
“We should not need to ask the state permission to go to a cafe or entertainment.”
Ideally, no, but we ask the state during a pandemic because the Government is responsible for public health.
Question 1: If you don’t wish that to be the case to whom should responsibility pass?
All of us have a right to freedom from others deliberately or negligently infecting us with a dangerous disease. Freedom of expression does not extend to deliberate refusal to follow the regulations by the body responsible for public health in full knowledge of the reasons for those regulations. this limitation is expressly stated in the UK’s Human Rights Act, The UN Declaration of Human Rights and the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights.
Question 2: Would it be your intention, Sir John, to try to remove this limitation from UK law should the opportunity to do so arise?
July 26, 2021
Peter Gardner, It is selfish to expect others to protect you. If you are still that bothered about covid19 after being double jabbed, then protect yourself, don’t expect me to do it for you.
July 27, 2021
You expect others to pay taxes to fund a police force and military to protect you.
Whether you pay your share or not of taxes does not change this.
You are clearly a hypocrite therefore.
July 27, 2021
Ridiculous comparison MiC
We all pay the taxes that are legally levied.
July 28, 2021
I’m sorry.
Nick and you both expect others to protect you.
Whether and how much you are willing to pay does not change that fact.
July 27, 2021
Yes. So you have the option to stay at home – well away from anyone who might, possibly, infect you. I suggest you take it.
July 26, 2021
I do understand why the govt. went down this route.
Faced with vast OTT propaganda regarding deaths etc. what else could it do?
However, the fact remains that those who are exploiting and pushing it to absurd lengths are the ones who wish to bring down the West.
July 26, 2021
Your memory is completely gone. A thousand deaths a day is not “OTT propaganda”. It’s a fact.
July 26, 2021
While itās a statistical fact that x amount of people died, we still donāt know what the split is between those that died directly due to covid-19 or due to excess deaths or due to the 28 day ruleā¦..Iād like to know the true figures
July 26, 2021
We may never be able to return to the way of life we had before the Chinese plague virus epidemic. Once again, you may be demanding premature re-opening of the economy. Large numbers of people are ending up in hospital having developed illness, despite being vaccinated. This is highly concerning.
The effects of Johnson’s so called “Freedom Day” have not yet shown up in the figures. Hospitalisations are still inexoraby rising, currently 5001 and 152,070 people have had “Covid” mentioned by their doctor when certifying their death certificate, which is an appaling number. Fatalities are still happening.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274
What is now showing in the statistics is a clear protective effect from the vaccines, in that the proportion of fatalities per confirmed case is much reduced. To prepare for the winter, we should re-double our efforts to vaccinate the remaining cohort of the population that has yet to be double-jabbed. Organising booster doses would also seem to be a sensible precaution.
One hopes that holidaymakers currently travelling to Spain and Greece do not bring back yet another variant
July 26, 2021
Sakara, I never believe anything on the BBC. Covid being “mentioned” on the death certificate is irrelevant – there have been remarkably few deaths due solely to covid.
July 26, 2021
Agreed in spades.
However I note that according to You Gov 71% of the public is in favour of vaccine passports. Mind you, from the same source, 71% have been in favour of every restriction.
July 26, 2021
You Gov is a State puppet. A dreadful and deceitful organisation with political intent. Not a company to be trusted
July 26, 2021
Well, you know what that means? It means we need to have freedom from 71% of the population. How is that going to work?
July 26, 2021
The heavy use of psychology and especially “nudging” means that the establishment is not going to change course easily or soon.
We badly need that inquiry into how this pandemic was mishandled because many of us believe that we will not be allowed to reclaim our freedoms – given the coercive ways the government is using to make people get vaccinated.
How do we make this government fall on it’s sword?
July 26, 2021
To arrive at the freedoms that Sir John advocates, we first need to control the covid infection rate.
And to do this, we need a reliable and accurate form of testing which we do not have at present. Also, since the vaccines do not always prevent reinfection, safe and effective treatments.
Unfortunately, the govt show little interest in pursuing either of these measures, preferring instead to remain in thrall to the doom mongers in Sage
July 26, 2021
Vaccinate to the maximum, only test those who think they have got it, not those who might have come within a hundred yards of it, and let the vast majority get back to whatever is their normal life.
July 26, 2021
Off topic
Over the weekend I joined an interesting WhatsApp discussion on the state of the party in the opinion polls, Johnson’s leadership and who could mount a challenge.
The concensus view was that should Johnson resign, any candidate should have cabinet experience. Noting that the party is a broad church with a spectrum of political opinion, here is a list of potential ambitious people who were discussed and might be in contention
Priti Patel – the hanging and flogging candidate. Has failed to stem the tremendous number of illegal migrants, has upset the police by refusing to give them any more money and has presided over a rapid increase in police numbers by bringing in officers of dubious moral character and honesty. No hope.
Steve Baker – the “let them catch it and die” candidate, leader of the Covid Recovery Group. Has an abrasive personality and has made few friends outside about 20 MP’s on the far right of the party. No hope
Jacob Rees-Mogg – the laid-back lounge lizard candidate. Popular among the grass-roots, says very little of note and has a poor Commons attendance record. No hope
Penny Mordaunt – the dark horse candidate. Ex international development secretary, is ambitious and personable. Socially liberal but a firm Brexiter. Has support among the female MP contingent. Could make the cut
Gavin Williamson – the charmed life candidate. Knows where the bodies are buried, but can annoy colleagues. Prone to gaffes. No hope
Sajid Javid – the successfull social mobility candidate, his father was a bus driver in Bolton. Did well as Chancellor, resigned after falling out with Cummings, but prone to accepting poisoned chalices. Has support on both sides of the centre of the party. A front runner
Jeremy Hunt – the political survivor candidate. Not a self-made man, he inherited mmost of his wealth. The longest running SoS Health ever. A safe pair of hands, has courage and stood against Johnson last time. Has adroitly expanded his popularity with grassroots MP’s. A front runner.
Dominic Raab – the clever candidate. Sharp, well liked by the intelligence community but has achieved nothing as foreign secretary. Formerly a lawyer and diplomat, seen as vigorous and hugely ambitious. A misogynist, would not have support from half of the electorate at an election. No hope
There you have it. Johnson may have to resign soon if the party continues to lose support in the polls. Good luck if you decide to stand in Wokinham again.
July 26, 2021
No, Sakara, that is not what we have. It’s your – clearly left of centre – guesswork.
July 26, 2021
Bilge
July 26, 2021
Broad church? It expelled anyone who disagreed with the dalek-like brexterminators!
July 27, 2021
Unfortunately the MPs who worked against implementing our vote to Leave were not “expelled” until they had voluntarily moved to other parties. Why else is Theresa May still a Tory MP?
July 26, 2021
You left Boris off the list. He would win by a mile.
July 26, 2021
“Enjoy the freedom that we are about to give to you” say the Tories to the ZHC, minimum wage-slave, on 24/365 standby, waiting for the ‘phone to ring, and always ready to drop everything and go scurrying for his boss at a moment’s notice.
The irony is that he probably voted for it.
July 26, 2021
Yet there is far higher unemployment in the EU.
And reports are that many areas in the UK economy are recruiting staff as the economy grows.
PS
They aren’t zero hours the average hours are nearly 20.
Only a few percent of the whole workforce are on temporary contracts.
And it suits most people to be on these flexi contracts.
Summer peaks, the Christmas rush and retail special sales weeks where they need extra staff for short periods.
You read too many Guardian articles MiC
July 26, 2021
Meanwhile the Labour Party are busy sacking their permanent staff and replacing them with people on six month no-benefits contracts, and bring your own laptop.
You really are a complete and utter hypocrite, aren’t you MiC.
July 26, 2021
No – I have sacked no one nor asked for their sacking.
July 27, 2021
But you pick one example and overlook another, Martin.
July 26, 2021
I fully agree with everything you say. However, indications are that this is a minority view with the wider public which I just don’t understand. It appears that the majority prefer state control of so much of our lives and consider personal freedom to be “reckless”. We hear frequent comparisons to laws on speeding and drink driving as acceptable limits on “freedom” as if socializing with friends and going up to the bar at a pub is somehow a comparable danger. Let us remember that this virus has an extremely high survival rate and for those that are vaccinated it is no more deadly than flu. I think the MSM is in large part to blame for prolonging the fear. At the July 12th press conference, 3 media reporters made it clear they felt that masks should be compulsory. None have ever questioned why advice on masks changed a year ago nor drawn attention to the government’s own advice on the limited usefulness of loose fitting cloth masks. With this strong public desire to be restricted, controlled and closeted and a belief that government can stop us from catching a virus, I do wonder if Boris will capitulate when hospitalizations increase in line with central projections. Please work to prevent this from happening.
July 26, 2021
This isnāt about our freedom from the EU, or the media hysteria, or the world pandemic, or the covid variants, or the endless medical professorsā¦..its about our freedom from our own Junta Government
We restore our freedom by a change of leadership or a general election
July 26, 2021
I would like to know why, instead of protesting about the Government attempting, perhaps incompetently but nevertheless trying, to perform its duty to protect public health, there isn’t a demand for the immediate repeal of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011, behind which we have already had one rogue Parliament almost overturning the EU referendum result and this one now forcing the Government, in effect, to give up on its duty for public health by lifting all restrictions and announcing that it is now up to individuals to decide whether to bother or not adopting measures to reduce the spread of coronavirus. On any other matter the protestors would be accusing the government of dereliction of its duty.
July 26, 2021
JR
I feel you are in the right ball park as it were with this topic, but there are one or two facts you may not be acquainted with –
The latest thing is ‘ping-itis’and it works thus: “oh look the weather is fine, and I just got pinged by the way so ta ta for now”…. “but I’ll be ok I’ve got plenty of burgers and charcoal”
This skyver’s tactic is rife in key businesses. Food supply chain and courier companies in particular. And employers often feel they have no right to insist on proof of ping. Literally anyone can phone in work and say they got pinged, even if they don’t actually have a mobile phone.
Regrettably this also seems to be working it’s way through NHS GP surgeries and is resulting in admin defficiency. But not to worry, the admin staff have an NHS card which gets them upto 60% discount at the supermarkets so they’ll have plenty of burgers & charcoal, while the rest of us struggle to gain GP access and have to pay full whack at the supermarket tills after a hard day’s graft.
Another point is that decades of substandard education has turned out some very selfish people, spitting all over the place, not washing hands etc. In fact last week I walked out of a delicatessen because someone in front had his hands down the back of his trousers – and was going for deep exploration, he then sniffed his fingers and proceded to be served and paid cash. I KIDD YOU NOT !
It also seems we have a generation ignorant of what a handkerchief is. Yes, they use their fingers and do so in full view of everyone else, often at a bar or food outlet.
It is my opinion that some people actually don’t deserve their freedoms restored, at least until they practise good personal hygiene.
July 26, 2021
Restore our freedoms? Yeah right , I don’t believe it, not while they are intending to introduce Covid passports, Britcoin, the totalitarian greenery , and much else. All the indicators are to them creating a very authoritarian state.
July 26, 2021
I can see no point in waiting until 16th August to release everyone to work, even after a ping, as long as they have tested negative. The further delay will achieve little or nothing.
July 26, 2021
I want an app, Bluetooth naturally, that will alert me as soon as another mobile with bluetooth on comes near. Range max about 30 feet? Then I can judge whether to turn the Covid ‘wild pinging app’ off, or not.
Freedom here we come.
July 26, 2021
Bluetooth is a nuisance. I had it on my computer for the mouse and keyboard, but it was wrong and failed to connect so many times, from all of one foot away that I took it off and bought wired devices. No further problems. I wouldn’t trust it to tell me the time of day.
July 26, 2021
Dear Sir John,
You still fail to stress the risks presented by the Corvid Virus in all it’s variant forms.
Even with two vaccination people can still become seriously ill, if not die.
I agree there comes a point when we must achieve as much freedom of movement as possible but keeping the risks in mind.
There seems to be a trend to blame governments for the restrictions and not the Virus. Albeit that by accident the US/China are to blame and our Dr. Fucci probably in particular. But finding out for sure will be like who actually ordered the killing of JFK.
Wearing of masks in doors and caution with mixing outside your necessary circle of family, friends, work colleagues and business contacts needs to continue Laws or no Laws to follow.
The point is missed that this is not about my freedom but the possible impact on Health of other people by my freedom to do just what I like. Vaccination does not always stop you passing on the virus to others.
July 26, 2021
The wearing of masks is a placebo – the 2021 Danish randomized clinical trial recognized by the medical profession (reported in the ACP Annals of Internal Medicine March 2021) showed no measurable difference in outcome, and other trials and research by research medics on the same page are equally negative . The general view is “Universal mask mandates are not supported by the evidence”.
The belief in the general public is quite strong that they ‘seem to protect me’. Even though they don’t. But then the general public has allowed itself to forget that the pandemic was at its height in the spring of 2020, when there was no general maskwearing, it then fell, and subsequently, once masks were mandated, rose again steeply. Throw away your mask and live, is my suggestion.
I’m sorry, but I refuse to be responsible for your evidently high levels of anxiety. The risk of infection and illness is part of human life.
July 26, 2021
Hereās the acid test
Wearing one of those common clinical blue masks would you walk into a room with airborne anthrax ā¦..no because those masks are useless and are just a means of control
July 26, 2021
Thank you. A sane reply. Do you notice how rare that is?
July 28, 2021
You Guys just don’t get it. Read the papers/watch TV to see the impact of the virus. Is it all a made up story ? Why do you think medical staff wear masks during operations ?
It’s to protect the patient not themselves. The Covid virus is controlling how you should act not the Government. To protect yourself you need to wear full biological protective clothing.
What is rare these days is common sense and concern for others not just oneself.
No Safety measure is a 100% effective but reduces the probability of an incident/event occurring.
The virus is not airborne anthrax. Only an idiot would wear a simple mask to protect oneself from it.
The mask is to protect others not oneself- get it ?
July 26, 2021
The Times has reported that Boris is ‘raging’ over the low vax uptake among the young and is now planning to ban unvaxxed students from lecture theatres. It seems rather reminiscent of a certain gentleman ranting in his bunker in 1945. I also saw a clip of Macron shouting that anyone who refuses vaccination is killing his own father. Is there something in these ‘vaccines’ that curdles the thought processes of the recipients?
July 26, 2021
It is NOT the vaccine it is the Virus….. although there are one or two exceptions where it didn’t work writing on here.
July 26, 2021
There may well be something in them that curdles the thought processes, but Jabbaturk is in a hurry – the question is why?
July 26, 2021
The eagerness to stay at home may not merely be the wish of the unsackable to take time off work they are paid for whether they do it or not (which is the essence of unionised public service employment). They may also have pecuniary motives. I wonder how many noticed this, on the Moneysavingexpert website: “During the 2020 lockdown, HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) launched a ‘microservice’ which, even if you only needed to work from home for a day, allowed you to get a WHOLE year’s tax relief. And that applies for the 2021/22 tax year too ā meaning many are due TWO years’ relief, worth up to Ā£280. The same also applies if you have to work from home because you’ve been told to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace, or because you’re self-isolating having been pinged by the NHS app.
Well well.
July 26, 2021
Well, good for the young – they’ve obviously weighed up the risks associated with the vaccines and the risks due to covid, and decided it’s not worth being jabbed. And why shouldn’t they? Of course that’s contrary to what the “young’s” self appointed leader – Andy – thinks. But then even Andy can’t have everything.
July 26, 2021
“What surely we now wish to avoid is missing out on so much normal life, particularly the things we do with friends and family and for our entertainment. These are the things that makes life worthwhile and more enjoyable”.
And that should be in the front of Government’s agenda. Freedom – it’s also called democracy, something that has been abandoned in this country, it seems.
We, the people, are never privy to to the inner circles of any Government, so we have little idea on what basis they make these decisions that can economically cripple our country. Worse, our elected representatives in Parliament are also excluded so we become mere cannon fodder for those in power.
This is not the Conservative way it is more the Marxist MO for controlling their masses. No wonder the Tories lost their stronghold in Amersham. That the constituency switched to Libdems is insult enough!
When can TRUE Conservative business and policies be resumed? Mrs Thatcher or your philosophies and principles, please return.
July 26, 2021
We keep hearing the same old waffle “The Government wants more control”. In fact, people have started repeating this automatically, as if it isn’t even debateable.
OK, so what control do the Government want? They actually want to control health status down to the level of the individual, do they? For what purpose?
If they want to avoid super-spreader events, then I say all power to them. If people want to run free spreading Covid just to feed their own paranoia, then I think that stopping them is a very good idea.
But if you are one of the idiots running around yapping about the Stasi – at the weekend some woman compared NHS workers to concentration camp guards – just ask what the Government would actually do with “more control”. Control what, exactly?
Figure out what a sane Government could actually do with something like a Covid Passport and then please explain the dangers. Until someone does, and lifts this whole affair out of the idiocy of random fearmongering, then I’m going to ignore the whole mess.
July 26, 2021
This weekend, one of my more paranoid and “freedom loving”neighbours was going on about privacy and the way the Government wants to issue Covid Passports and other horrors.
So I asked: “Given that your medical treatment comes from the NHS, is your goal here to keep your dealings with the Government secret from the Government?”
July 26, 2021
I’m no expert on the transmissabilty of this virus but I know that I can catch a cold or ‘flu maybe if I get too close to someone who can pass it. I think of this in the same way. I do not wear a mask but I make sure I don’t let anyone breath all over me.
No expert has said we can catch it by walking past someone in the street or in a shop. So I see no reason to control the population with passports and other means. Our leaders are in a panic, and consequently are not competent.
July 26, 2021
Your Government needs to RESTORE OUR FREEDOMS by:-
NOT causing health and care workers to lose their jobs if they refuse vaccination.
Making it ILLEGAL for any employer to impose a no jab no job rule.
Make it illegal for any business to impose face masks or vaccine passports as a condition of entry to their premises.
Make it illegal for any Education facility to impose jabs or face masks, screens, bubbles etc. That’s all the way up from nursery to university.
Repeal the Covid 2020 Act.
Totally abolish any trace of Domestic Covid Passports and stop the stupid test and trace schemes.
In other words TOTALLY DISMANTLE THE WHOLE COVID DICTATORSHIP.
Also the BRITCOIN scheme being proposed is highly suspicious. And while we are on the subject it is totally wrong for the Cabinet to tell us what we should eat.
July 26, 2021
Brighton right now is like falaraki in a pre covid year. Thousands of people dancing in the streets, on the beach, all demographics mixing having fun. Vaccine passports for events is a nonsense with this going on.
July 26, 2021
Most politicians live a life cocooned in a bubble in Westminster and at home on rich-row, even Jess Phillips Labour MP self identifies as āmiddleclassā(BBC Hard-Talk interview)ā¦.they donāt see nor understand us plebs
The People have moved on from the pandemic but the Politicians haven’t
July 27, 2021
We had restrictions and “guidance” imposed on us. No-one demanded them; there was no debate. MPs abrogated their responsibility to represent their Constituents, bowed-down before the State and gave the Government carte blanche to do whatever they pleased. And then most of them scuttled back to their Constituencies.
The result has been the worst tyranny since Cromwell and they’ve only just started.
The Government is attempting to make “vaccination” with unlicensed gene therapies which have no medium to long-term safety data effectively mandatory.
Digital ID, in the form of “vaccine” passports, is being created. You will be tracked everywhere you go.
Next they announced the intention to roll out a social credit system to monitor the population’s consumption of disapproved foods/alcohol ….. which will soon be expanded to control other aspects of people’s lives.
And now Sunak has announced the intended creation of a Digital Currency, Britcoin. Every item of income and expenditure will be monitored and under their control
At that point, the gates of the prison will clang permanently shut. You will be owned lock, stock and barrel by the State.
Remember …..you will own nothing. They will own everything. And they don’t care if you’re happy or not. The “Conspiracy” is in plain sight.
July 27, 2021
Re your last sentence, yes, that is the aim of privatisation, isn’t it?
July 27, 2021
No.
Privatisation is where ordinary people can actually own shares in businesses once owned by the State monopoly.
The opposite of places like USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, China, North Korea, et al
July 27, 2021
Only if they buy them.
We all owned all public enterprises before that.
July 28, 2021
“Only if they buy them”…well yes, why not state the blooming obvious Marty
PS
The state owned them.
Individuals like you and me had no ownership.
July 28, 2021
Well, it was collective property, not alienable like shares.
English law is very poor on such matters, it must be said.