I am glad the government has now signed off on a compensation scheme for Post Office managers wrongly accused and badly treated by the Post Office over the introduction of the Horizon computer system. Some were made to pay large sums to the Post Office they did not owe and some were falsely accused of fraud. Many lost their businesses and some faced criminal convictions for things they had not done.
This was a shameful incident and it has taken time for the Post Office and its government owner to do the right thing.
December 16, 2021
How about prosecution of those senior managers in both the Post Office and the IT company who knowingly and relentlessly pursued the sub postmasters in the courts whilst being aware of fundamental flaws in the Horizon system?
December 16, 2021
Absolutely.
It is clear that top managementâs behaviour was criminal.
Why arenât they in jail?
And the lawyers who defended them for years, despite having evidence of criminal behaviour.
And executives at Fujitsu.
You canât let people off just because it is embarrassing or they are mates with people in high places.
December 16, 2021
+1
December 16, 2021
+1. How could they possible have thought that so many post office owners would suddenly have all gone criminal once the new system was installed? How did the courts think this too. It defies logic and probability. Then again I remember shouting at the radio when they reported some âexpertâ advising a court (that fell for it) that one cot death was 1 in x million and 2 to the same family was therefore 1 in (x million times x million). So many people are ignorant innumerate fools alas. Energy corespondents for national newspapers who think energy is power and is measured in watts! Even shadow attorney generals who do not realist that âwavesâ are the result of wind. So not a very sensible way to cover & supply electrical energy when no wind is about dear.
Daft Governors of the BoE who have in-effect banned personal overdrafts (for sensible people) by charge everyone the same rip of rates ~ 30% even to 78% at one point. While at the FCA that is. Meanwhile inflation building up pressure by the day.
December 17, 2021
It is said that cheap money is responsible for asset accumulation but how to get cheap money at low borrowing rates. The low bank rate doesn’t mean I can borrow at low rates, does it?
December 16, 2021
+1
Long overdue – and their sentencing judge might keep in mind that all the compensation in the world cannot bring back those wrongly accused who were driven to suicide by those senior managers’ shameful actions.
Launching prosecutions would show the Government is on the side of the people and a much preferable effort to arranging for early release of the IB/XR road blocking protesters so they do not have to spend Christmas in prison (not yet announced but the sort of thing this Government would do so expected).
December 16, 2021
I am unclear about the consequences that followed for those in the Post Office who were responsible for this outrage. Were they prosecuted? Did any face prison sentences? Were they dismissed from office? Were they banned from further public employment?
December 16, 2021
Yes. Some went to prison. Victims of miscarriages of justice.
On occasion the law gets it wrong. This is a key reason why some of us oppose the death penalty.
December 16, 2021
The falsely accused sub-postmasters went to jail.
The lying scoundrels at the top of the Post Office who harassed them and misrepresented the situation have not even been fired let alone prosecuted
December 16, 2021
GilesB,
Exactly.
December 17, 2021
That is the essence of the still class-ridden UK.
December 16, 2021
Many were advised to plead guilty (as they were not easily able to actually challenge the duff software & system) the system seemed to prevent this in practice. So clearly not a fair trail as this is there only realistic defence. If the system is assumed infallible they struggle to have one.
December 16, 2021
Any Oldtimer means jail for those responsible for the miscarriage of justices not the victims. I do not think any did go?
December 16, 2021
+1 but a life tariff must mean *life*.
December 16, 2021
So was robbing women born in the 50âs of their pension. Where is their compensation. That was something Boris was going to look into. Well that is what he said in his comic before the election. I suppose he did look into it as much as I look into space.
December 16, 2021
Men were robbed of their pension, because they were only allowed to take the pension 5 years later than women. When will this be investigated ?
December 16, 2021
MWB
Indeed, and men on average died about three years younger than women at the time, thus Government saved about 8 years pension payments to men at the time.
Thus a double blow.
December 16, 2021
Not just women they moved the goal posts for men too. Plus as men do not live as long and pay more in too they were being cheated even before the lifting the retirement ages too. Plus they have moved the posts on private pensions with the 55% tax above the lifetime limit, annual contribution limits and Browns theft of dividend from pensions. This so he could piss the money away on his insane projects.
December 16, 2021
Allister Heath spot on as usual.
âBoris is dooming Britain to a dismal cycle of never-ending lockdowns
The shocking failure to make the UK more resilient to pandemics could destroy the Tories and our societyâ
With net zero on top, plus inflation, vast tax increase ⊠too it sure will do this!
December 16, 2021
Will public sector, unionised PO employees be facing criminal action and if not why not? Or is it only private sector employees and management that the criminal law applies to in Labour’s Britain?
December 16, 2021
Seems so – watch what happen with Grenville Tower as the state sector, council and fire brigade searches for scape goats!
December 16, 2021
It is government which has forced councils to outsource the inspection of buildings for conformity with building regs to private sector “consultancies”- often just another part of the industry they are inspecting – and also outsourced back to the manufacturers the certification of materials for fire resistance.
The US did a similar thing with aircraft certification and Boeing, and the results were absolutely parallel, weren’t they?
Spot the connection?
December 16, 2021
Recently you supported the idea of independence for inspections and audits NHL.
Which I would support.
Now here you claim only the state should do it.
Would you have state staff checking state staff?
December 16, 2021
Who, exactly, and for what?
December 17, 2021
All governments are corrupt, some more than others. – take your pick.
Have anyone been seeing the Monica Lewinsky/Clinton drama on BBC 2? Yes it’s a drama but quite revealing.
December 16, 2021
You are glad the government gave away âmyâ money yet again. No attempt at sanctions, fines on the Directors/IT co etc . I bet the person in charge still has her âgongâ
Sums it up
December 16, 2021
How much and when?
December 16, 2021
I’m surprised that no-one in the DPP seems to have questioned a sudden outbreak of dishonesty among a group of people screened for their honesty.
December 16, 2021
Fraud is despicable . Denying fraud is despicable . Wrongly accused of fraud is despicable . Perhaps if investigations were objectively viewed and those in a position to investigate were not corrupt, justice could reign . Fraud spoils peoples lives!
December 16, 2021
And what happened to the perpetrators?
Reply Good question, also asked yesterday.
December 16, 2021
And the answer was?
December 16, 2021
I look forward to hearing about the prosecutions of the Senior Post Office Managers who are responsible for this disgraceful episode.
But I’m not holding my breath. No Manager in the public sector is ever properly held to account for their failings..
December 16, 2021
Yes. Thatâs why they continue/donât change. Lesson learned. Another oxymoron.
December 16, 2021
Cannot keep compensating for all these horrendous mistakes without bringing those responsible to book.
Those whose actions and decisions result in the taxpayers having to pay massive compensation payments must be held to account irrespective of what area their incompetence was practised.
It is up to the courts to decide if it is criminal neglect, and those who have made millions out of the debacle have their properties ad accounts seized to pay the victims even if that is the government. Why is it no one in politics are never accountable for their actions when vast sums of tax payers money is wasted?
December 16, 2021
This has been a shameful scandal. It has taken far too long “for the Post Office and its government owner to do the right thing”. People were wrongly accused, reputations and lives were ruined, some were imprisoned and some committed suicide. Meanwhile those in charge lived untroubled lives. There should be legal action taken against those in the Post Office and government who were complicit in this injustice over such a long time. . Those responsible for this massive injustice must be held to account.
December 17, 2021
‘…this massive injustice must be held to account.’ They won’t be as the UK govt. now follows the US system.
December 16, 2021
I see our dear leader is now carrying out orders from the xxx teaching unions to impose the jab on vulnerable young children.
Is this PM in league with Labour’s public sector unions? I bet Johnson prefers the politics of Len McCluskey rather than that of Steve Baker and John Redwood. Evidence if it was ever needed that Tory leaders since MT are beyond contempt. They are lower than contemptible, to see Tory MPs crawling through the lobbies with Labour MPs to impose authoritarianism upon us is SICKENING
The Marxist crackdown has only just got started. With the aid of Tory MPs Labour and the unions have achieved all that they now need to rule over us ad infinitum
Johnson must be deposed before it turns this nation into a wasteland
December 16, 2021
Quite shameful how the little people again, simply abused by those who had power, backed by someone else’s money, had their lives and reputations destroyed in a very public manner, some even took their own lives due to the shame, knowing they were innocent, pray tell me what sum is compensation for that.
And those responsible in the post office got what, a very good pension !
Justice/compensation my Ar.e !
The whole scenario stinks.
December 16, 2021
I feel for the claimants who were treated appallingly but, the liabilities of this organisation (including pensions) should be down to the new shareholders. I suspect that the shareholders do not ay taxpayers a dividend or insurance premium to cover the liabilities taxpayers guarantee. If Royal Mail could not afford the compensation it should have been liquidated, I am sure there would have been a willing buyer. Only after liquidation should the taxpayer have become involved to compensate the injustice.
This is not capitalism, this is once again privatised profits but socialised losses. This is our money
Reply This is a state owned body not a privatised one
December 16, 2021
Apologies – I had muddled Royal Mail with the Post Office.
December 16, 2021
Hundreds of similar miscarriages of justice have been identified and corrected in the last 25 years, only as a result of painstaking investigation by journalists. None of the perpetrators ever get brought to justice. One wonders how many other innocent people languish in our prisons, because their cases are not spectacular enough to attract the attention of investigative journalists
Dominic Raab and Priti Patel would do better to look into why this happens so frequently, rather than tinker with the Human Rights Act
December 17, 2021
Raab is playing his games with the delusional Tory voters, who somehow seem to think that the Human Rights Act can be changed to make it selective, rather than following the centuries-established English principle that all are equal before the law.
That will never be changed though. So if asylum claimants lose their rights, then so does EVERYONE else.
That would suit Raab perfectly however.
December 16, 2021
A shameful incident with all the consequences falling on the taxpayer. No accountability or responsibility by the perpetrators shown towards the shareholders.
The Government of the UK cannot keep setting up, rogue outfits be it the Post Office, the NHS or Quango’s etc, with all abuse being funded directly by the taxpayer. Its easy to suggest that is criminal behaviour/deception by the Government. When in turn the taxpayer – the shareholder, has no redress. At the same time permitting those responsible to not be accountable to their owners. That is not running a bona fide business that’s fraud, a thiefdom to keep mates employed – them and us all the way.
The whinging idiots that try to highlight corruption of individuals, forget that they are also daily condoning the major corruption that lies at the root of Parliament and Government in that what amounts to stealing from the taxpayer without accountability and responsibility gets a ‘bye’. This lack of serving the people falls on all their heads.
December 16, 2021
@Nota# – Put it another way, we the people elect then employ/pay 650 individuals to sit in parliament. We lend these people the power that allows them to serve our interest to the best of their abilities.
If these 650 MPâs then permit the give away of âour moneyâ without then ensuring proper fit for purpose accountability and responsibility. You have to reason they are not fit for purpose â they are implementing, causing, creating even, vehicles for corruption.
The point missed is MPâs in a Democracy are NOT there to support their party, they are there â all of them, to hold the âexecutiveâ to account.
On the face of it we the taxpayer is not get what we are paying for.
December 16, 2021
These senior managers in social services and organisations like the post office appear to be paid around ÂŁ120,000 pa. What do this government (or is it our local council) expect from this job for that amount of money? What is each council’s Head of social services responsible for – wouldn’t a six individual person report of alarm in six months on one baby get fed back up to the top level? Do they even have an IT system that would monitor this in line with the police like the NHS spine? This super salary could pay for 3 senior social workers or 4 social workers on ÂŁ30,000 pa each. If they have no responsibility and can just walk away with ofsted poor ratings and people under them not doing their jobs properly just what is the point of them. Also when they screw up as in the case of the Post Office what punishment is there on them a fat redundancy and early pension?
We are paying the Post Office for a first-class service week-in and week-out but now they have decided to stop two deliveries mail deliveries each week who monitors this? We have 11 envelopes missing out of 18 that were posted Saturday or Monday. It is funny that all these ex-public services and public service organisations are having hefty sick leave still charge the same price but don’t deliver when other businesses aren’t, are the supermarkets whose staff come into more contact indoors and other shops having the same levels of absence?
December 16, 2021
Simple question John
Why when people are taken to Criminal Court with Public funds, do they have to fund their own defence, and then when found innocent they cannot get their defence costs back, when they may well have spent their entire savings on defending themselves. Hardly justice is it.
December 16, 2021
âMany lost their businesses and some faced criminal convictions for things they had not done. This was a shameful incident and it has taken time for the Post Office and its government owner to do the right thing.â
Many did not just âface convictionsâ but actually were imprisoned.
âThe right thingâ will not only be adequate monetary compensation for the victims but the punishment of all those who perpetrated this vast miscarriage of justice.
But we never read of any civil servant or quango employees or institution or any public employees sacked for incompetence, malfeasance, corruption, misbehaviour, indolence, truculence, faud or even criminal activity.
December 17, 2021
Many people have had their lives ruined by this system. It is only right that they are fully compensated – and then some. It is also right that those Post Office officials who stubbornly refused to admit that a major error had been made and instituted a cover up should have their lives ruined, both in the civil courts and where appropriate the criminal courts. It might be an idea to ask a question about the timing of this retribution.
December 17, 2021
Not only should the Post Office officials who instigated the prosecution of the sub-postmasters and postmistresses be brought to account, but those in the legal teams who were instrumental in bringing the cases to the courts for essentially the same alleged offence, undoubtedly knowing that the probability of this number of offences across such a disparate group could not have been true. Yet, they went ahead anyway while trousering huge fees in the process.
December 18, 2021
âThe Great Post Office Scandalâ
Absolutely criminal. Outrageous.
When something was obviously amiss those involved still persisted in its perpetuation.
What on earth has this country come to?
That this could happen in this country.
Families of those so departed should also be compensated, and more so, out of the gains made from those so charged.
What puzzles me is why so many intelligent upstanding people stayed all those years and suffered in many ways instead of just walking when it was obvious something serious was amiss to their detriment.
Adding insult to injury the bâŠy cheek to charge them legal costs.
Have those responsible been charged along with the computer company? If not why not? When all those innocent people and their families have had their lives and reputations ruined not to mention the suicides.
Some at the top could well afford to help pay towards the compensation by all accounts and so they should, along with others so involved, instead of getting away scot-free for all the harm and suicides they and others have been associated with over all those years.
Having said all that no amount of money can ever compensate to turn the clock back.