In our later years in the EU it was becoming a problem that the Uk was in the EU but not in the Euro. There were meetings the UK had to leave early when they wished to go onto tackle Euro issues. There were programmes they needed to complete their political and monetary union that the UK did not want to join. There was a burgeoning set of debts and transfers that sharing a currency necessitated.
Since we left the EU has been freer to get on with the necessary increased EU level government to underpin the currency union. The EU needs larger transfers from the richer parts to the poorer parts as we have in our sterling currency union and the US has in its dollar union. The system kept going in the past through allowing the countries in need of more financial support like Greece, Spain and Italy to borrow at zero or low cost from the European Central Bank, drawing down surpluses deposited by Germany and the richer members. What was planned as short term and limited facilities to ensure the Euro deposits were honoured throughout the zone became a long term cheap financing facility. Germany today has contributed 1.25 trillion euros through the ECB. As interest rates rise this becomes more problematic.
Now the EU is relaxing the former constraints on more state debt by two main means. It is introducing large borrowings at EU level, with Euro 800 bn of new borrowings planned under the NextGenerationEU green energy led development projects. It is relaxing the limits placed on running deficits at 3% of GDP and on the stock of state debt at 60% of GDP. Each country will be able to agree with the EU laxer debt totals for policies the EU likes. As a result total debt in the EU will grow, and each member state in the system will be jointly liable for the growing EU debt .
The European Central Bank has stirred itself to a rare criticism of the EU, reminding them that too much debt is undesirable and asking them to retain some controls over the total level of state and EU debts. The Bundesbank has gone further, condemning the move to more borrowing. The UK no longer has to pay its share of a fast rising budget, nor accept liability for any share of EU debt now being accumulated. I am glad we have shed these risks, and glad our former partners can now pursue their debt union without a UK brake on the budgets as that seems to be their desire.
One of the biggest Brexit wins so far is avoiding many billions of extra debt as the EU borrowings grow rapidly.
July 31, 2023
Good morning.
I am sure you are telling the truth, Sir John, but I have my doubts. The EU can still find numerous ways (fines usually) to pick our pockets. And until we have full control over both our borders, and that includes Ulster, and what direction this country wishes to take in all areas of government, to me we will have never left the EU.
July 31, 2023
Mark,
The statement itself is true enough. My issue is that the UK Government has been happy to borrow just as excessive amounts and blow the money on vanity projects or unnecessary/ineffective spending,
July 31, 2023
Exactly. Anyone who can crow about the joys of low debt and controlled spending here isn’t quite with the actualitee. We’re drunk on spending on HS2, benefits, silly degrees, a flu panic, an awful NHS, bond buying…you name it. Because of that, we’re also less than nimble in being able to avoid the elephant next door when it wants to chew bits of us off or kick us when we’re recovering from our drunken stupidity on the floor. A stupid position to have got into, totally unnecessarily. Totally Con socialist. Never again. Not this time.
July 31, 2023
Mark B,
No it is not an accurate picture. JR knows full well how much (multiple tens of billions and billions for decades to come) the govt. (aka taxpayer) paid the EU to leave! Not a legal bill.
JR knows his party and govt gave away our fishing to the EU which is a direct cost to our country in financial terms, jobs and industry, he knows the level playing fields were to make our country less competitive to EU and hamstring our country to prevent it forging its own way in the world, JR knows the sell out agreement was to tie UK to EU and give away N.Ireland!! They are meant to be conservative and unionist party!! How much is Sunak currently paying France to increase mass immigration- £220-300 million so far. All these people are in a safe country, no application should be read or entertained by such people coming here whatsoever. That is another couple of billion a year to take our EU quota!
How about the inter-connectors making UK dependent on EU!! Environment etc etc huge cost to us as well as mammoth amount of regulation.
July 31, 2023
+1
July 31, 2023
According to the National Audit Office government Covid-19 measures cost £310 billion to £410 billion, or about a fifth of UK GDP. No doubt some of this was wasted, but (pace sceptics/conspiracy theorists) it was an emergency situation and I would cut a lot of slack for those who had to make difficult decisions quickly and on the basis of incomplete information and understanding.
Yet there are some who claim that Brexit will be worse than Covid …
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/28/brexit-worse-for-the-uk-economy-than-covid-pandemic-obr-says
“Brexit worse for the UK economy than Covid pandemic, OBR says”
July 31, 2023
‘ I would cut a lot of slack for those who had to make difficult decisions quickly and on the basis of incomplete information and understanding.’
I wouldn’t.
It was a disgraceful waste of public money coupled with brazen cronyism. Politician’s local pub landlord makes a fortune etc. Decisions made on the strength of a brief phone call, with no oversight. A chancer’s dream come true.
There should be a full accounting for how every pound was spent and who was responsible. It won’t happen, of course, because it would be too embarrassing for the government,
July 31, 2023
Denis, I fear an awful lot of the Covid spend was wasted:
– Eat out to help out: A £1bn gift to those well able to afford their own meals out
– Loan scheme: An uncontrolled handout with estimated £25bn of the money lost to fraud
– Test and trace: An unmitigated disaster and waste of £30bn
Plus a host of other losses…
July 31, 2023
Oh, well, if the OBR says it, IT MUST BE TRUE!
Odd really – the OBR is now widely discredited yet people still use their inane utterances as if they had a shred of credibility left.
July 31, 2023
Trying to account for every pound spent would just be throwing good money after bad.
July 31, 2023
The OBR got its 4% loss of GDP over the long run by averaging 13 studies:
https://obr.uk/box/the-effect-on-productivity-of-leaving-the-eu/
which included a World Bank study anticipating a 10% loss, but did not include this study:
https://iea.org.uk/in-the-media/press-release/economic-effects-of-eu-membership-marginal
“Economic Effects of EU Membership Marginal”
The net effect of leaving without any special trade deal could be less than 1% of GDP.
That was in 2001, but two decades later I am still explaining it in our local newspaper.
With his “Project Fear” lies George Osborne and the Treasury have a lot to answer for.
August 1, 2023
I agree Denis, I think people forget the pressure from the public after seeing endless media reports of nurses working in bin bags, crying continually about not being able to get masks and ppe, all usual channels were blocked (sometimes by our Friends France and Germany and others who wanted the ppe for themselves), so there was a necessity to try new suppliers. We should deal with the companies who didn’t provide quality goods through our trading standards.
Everyone wanted lots of testing kits for FREE (nothing is free) some people were using these kits every day, hoarding them, they know who they are! Yet they complain now about the cost.
Eat out to Help out, I didn’t hear people complaining at the time, the restaurants were frankly on their knees and so grateful that the government supported them coming out of lockdown, businesses that would otherwise have been permanently shut; you don’t hear any of them coming out now to say how much that decision saved their business. The people I know that took advantage of the offer didn’t get covid, it encouraged them to come out of their homes after being terrified that if they caught covid they’d die.
As for bad loans, look at the banks who were supposed to only give them to legitimate businesses that had been trading with them, often the new banks who got clean away with these poor decisions; look at the actual people who stole our money. The government was pressured to help them all because of the global decisions to close down economies worldwide. Do you think Labour would have been any different or the SNP? They wanted lockdowns for longer, schools closed for longer, and hospitals virtually closed down; when Boris came out of lockdown after Christmas, he was told by these politicians he would be responsible for killing people!
July 31, 2023
+1
July 31, 2023
Meanwhile, over on the hopeless Conservative Home site their poster boy, David Gauke, has come up with a brilliant wheeze for cutting back on public spending.
He wants to set up an ‘Office for Spending Evaluation’ !
So yet even more public spending with absolutely no chance of cutting costs. It would be just another cog in the wheel, adding more delay and bureaucracy and inevitably requesting a bigger budget under the pretence that the problems are much bigger than anticipated. It would be peopled by the usual suspects.
July 31, 2023
My view is that site is an absolute farce under Goodman’s editorship.
Having an expelled party member as a poster is a joke. They even allowed him to retain the title of MP in his signature for a long time after he was ejected from the HoC by the 2019 voters.
And with the “stealth moderation” (whereby some people’s posts seem to be successfully posted, but then they simply disappear if they refresh the page) they are effectively filtering posters and content to present a picture of Conservatives all being some kind of Lib Dems.
The only people it doesn;t seem to happen to are party members, who still have a right to post there.
And yes, Gauke… my opinion is the same as yours – not the sharpest tool in the box.
Johnson needed to cull around 210 MPs, not 21, before the 2019 election. They’ve been busy doing the same to Brexiteers ever since (Raab etc).
August 1, 2023
Politicians often only know how to spend money – not create it.
July 31, 2023
I agree fully we have at best a 50% Brexit so far and Sunak’s dire Windsor Framework was surely a dreadful, step backwards and a totally dishonestly sold deal by Sunak.
So Philip Hammond (whom I regard as a blatant Brexit traitor, an appalling ex-chancellor & yet or perhaps due to this he was elevated to the Lords) has actually said something sensible. “Tory PMs ‘systematically dishonest’ about £1 trillion cost of net zero”. Former Chancellor says “there’s a ‘cross-party disease’ of politicians not being straight with voters about significant true cost of project”.
Except he did not point this out, insist of proper costing or threaten to resign at the time, when he was the Chancellor, not were sensible costings even done by the treasury. Almost no debate (circa 90 mins) and then this disastrous bill was nodded through. Not just MPs who were ‘systematically dishonest’ but also May and her dreadful ministers. The £1 trillion is a significant under estimate too, and the benefit to the UK of net zero is actually a huge negative too.
Cost vast, benefits negative, job exporting lunacy and will not even save world CO2 output – a great plan Theresa.
But then we have:- Rishi Sunak is expected in Aberdeenshire later today where he will reportedly announce millions of pounds in funding for the Acorn carbon capture project. The project is a joint venture between Shell UK and other companies. So Sunak is daftvand deluded as Thrresa May (PPE or Geogrraphy graduates). please can we have some sensible physicists like Dr. John Clauser the co-winner of the 2022 Nobel Physics prize.
So yet more net zero insanity and endless government waste from the foolish Sunak on this. How are his companies huge investments in Moderna going? Has he started the ………… investigations into the circa 1/35 now with heart issues and other injuries (alleged Ed)from taking the new tech Covid Vaccines? What to about these “placebo” batches in Germany and the vast variation in batch injuries. I assume regulators and companies will surely kept samples of all the batches (or that would be further gross negligence)?
July 31, 2023
Iain Duncan Smith “we should transition to net zero at a pace we can afford”, “we must clean up our air and get the carbon levels down”… No IDS CO2 is not remotely dirty nor is it “pollution” it is vital for life plant, tree, sea weed and crop food. Also we are in a relative dearth of CO2 in historic terms anyway. Any “transition to net zero” is hugely expensive, virtually impossible, vastly damaging and entirely pointless (indeed it does net harm).
So we should not even try to transition to net zero. Even the relatively sensible wing of the Tories like IDS gets it completely wrong. Sunak is getting it totally wrong too in Aberdeenshire today too with his potty carbon capture agenda. We capture in and china builds another coal fired power station each week.
July 31, 2023
Do not forget the ever so clever Sunak gave away over £12 billion in school boy errors to covid fraud. Lord Agnew resigned Sunak becomes PM based on MPs only against his party wishes!!
July 31, 2023
Carbon capture and storage wastes circa 30% of the energy generated, cost more to build and more to run too. Can someone explain this to the dopey PPE grad. Sunak currently talking like a dim patronising primary school teacher to some energy people in Aberdeenshire! Also that CO2 is plant, crop and tree food and is essential for life and that we are in a period of a relative dearth of CO2. He clearly does not seem to know this.
So using helicopters and private jets is so that Sunak makes “the most efficient use of his time” he assures us. But for everyone else (the ones mainly in the productive and tax paying sector) the government are blocking the roads, pricing people out of their cars, preventing them getting to work, making them use public transport often taking perhaps triple the time. Perhaps they need to make the most efficient use of their time too Sunak? After all many of these people are producing useful things unlike so much of your pathetic tax to death Government Sunak.
July 31, 2023
MB,
Fines are the plan for the EU to rip=off the UK, no doubt. It will cost billions; as it has already. ECJ jurisdiction still holds terrible power over the UK — Thanks Bunter.
Interesting aside, the EU reporting of it’s Net Contributor members has been halted post Brexit. Could it be that the reason is Germany now pay almost 50% of it, according the third party estimates,
see here:https://www.iwkoeln.de/en/studies/berthold-busch-bjoern-kauder-samina-sultan-net-contributors-and-net-recipients-in-the-eu.html
I wonder when the German central bank will lose patience with the EU spending.
July 31, 2023
The majority of politicians ans civil Serpents plus state run Quangos would rejoin the EU at the drop of a hat even though it means joining the Euro.
We have enough debt of our own even though some is owed to itself.
Our foreign debt interest is out of control and soon we won’t be able to roll it over. More money printing.
July 31, 2023
@Mark B, @PeteB, @Sir Joe Soap and others
Agreed, everyone sees it, this is an elect us and get punished Conservative Government all about stroking their personal self esteem and ego, nothing about a future and an economy to fund it. Maybe they know they are finished and walk away leaving the cupboard bare – who pays? Not them, they are comfortably well provided for, it must be the taxpayer then.
July 31, 2023
I have my doubts too. When you look at the payments to the EU, under the deal, you can’t find the number. The deal says the EU will send the bill and the UK will pay it. No right to an audit etc. So you can guess what the EU will do.
That reminds me, there were ‘estimates’. There’s the reality. Time for some FOI requests to see who is honest.
July 31, 2023
Not likely to hear this good point about Brexit on the BBC or other liberal left main stream media. But suspect the saving will not help with our national debit and Government waste. Will it be off-set by net-zero etc.
Reply Already running at around £120 bn it helps a lot.
July 31, 2023
Posting the debit repayment per year, the Government budget for 2023 and actual spend to date would put the saving in perspective.
Any saving helps reduce debit. But how big is the debit and annual spend in the first place?
July 31, 2023
Well £120 billion helps but look at the costs of HS2. test and trace, the net harm vaccine programme, the cost of treating the (million or so) vaccine injured, the cost of lockdowns, the cost of the road blocking agenda, the millions of soft loans for pointless degrees, the many £trillions cost of May’s pointless and moronic net zero lunacy, the millions Sunak is to waste on carbon capture today (will he be taking a private jet to Aberdeenshire or a helicopter or both perhaps?. So does it not go very far.
July 31, 2023
I do remember being told that the referendum would bring an end to Eurosceptics banging on about Europe. Read the continental press, the UK is never even mentioned. Read John Redwood, and there’s nothing but the EU. Just can’t move on
Reply As an admirer of the EU you should welcome proper attention to it. The EU never leaves us alone now we have left, constantly threatening us through their involvement in Northern Ireland.
July 31, 2023
Perhaps, if we’d been allowed to LEAVE, rather than have a semi-detached status imposed on us, you wouldn’t read so much about the EU. As it is, the EU still controls large swathes of our economy/policy areas so we are forced to pay attention to it.
July 31, 2023
+1
July 31, 2023
Donna,
At huge costs which JR is fully aware of. His party and govt. have systematically been dishonest over Brexit. Hammond knows he was part of that systematic dishonesty while in Govt.! Pot kettle and all that. Why did he not stop it when chancellor or resign? How would he categorise his views on Brexit? Did he help implement the Brexit vote or deliberately hinder it at every turn? Weasel should not be in Lords or any public office.
July 31, 2023
@Donna +1
As the EU stated at the time of the WA, you are our Colony now. And, to think we voted leave and this Conservative Government refused to get it done.
July 31, 2023
Donna, you are right, we are forced to pay attention to the EU – though they pay very little attention to us. That is because the EU is big and powerful and right next door. We were part of that power and benefited from it as a member of the EU. Now we are out in the cold, affected by the EU’s decisions but unable to influence them. That is why I voted Remain
July 31, 2023
@ Lemming, mentioning EU on this column is in context to what has and is going on and in reply to much Brexit bashing from our own media and various talking heads (who all no doubt enjoyed EU gravy train ride).
July 31, 2023
That is because the political consensus after the referendum was to agree a deal with the EU and that leaving on WTO terms would be a disaster. It would not have been a disaster. Because, as Guy Verhofstadt told the Parliamentary Select Committee, once the UK is a third country it can play its full hand and the EU can be flexible but negotiating while still in the EU means UK must follow the rules. As I wrote in my article for UKIP at the time the main reason for leaving as quickly as practicable without a deal was to get on with rebuilding the UK’s capacity for self-government without interference from the EU. Because the UK insisted on a deal, it got a bad deal and has had nothing but interference by the EU ever since. And now Sunak’s Framework commits UK to close regulatory alignment with the EU, cements EU rule and ECJ jurisdication in Northern Ireland permanently (the price of Brexit) and gives the EU retaliatory powers it can use if it thinks the UK is becoming a bit too competitive.
No doubt Sunak will soon be negotiating some kind of deal with the EU on defence, making the UK a mere outlying province of the EU. It is certainly Von Der Leyen’s intention to make the EU the formal representative of ‘Europe’ in NATO, an objective that fits neatly with Biden’s desire for a unified politico-military structure in Europe.
Reply I consistently argued for and voted for no deal given how bad all the deals were.
July 31, 2023
JR “Reply I consistently argued for and voted for no deal given how bad all the deals were.”
Indeed they were and you were right as usual but the dire fake Tory MPs and remoaners were not listening so we have this absurd half left lunacy made even worse by Sunak’s appalling Windsor sell out! Sold on blatant lies from him. Rather like Bliar’s war on a lie.
July 31, 2023
We’ve all come to realise that ‘as usual but the dire fake Tory MPs and remoaners were not listening’ neatly sums up the vast majority of the sit on hands, don’t read anything, don’t listen to differing points of view MPs, and finally – if you can remember who is PM, what ever he/she says must be right so support.
20.28
August 1, 2023
These very basic aspects of human nature and collectivism are never really taken into account E.G ..It hurts to see that he said this or that, and they didn’t take any notice of number one and they were ousted, so I better join in. It’s annoying that this country has done this or the other and not what I want. All is pathetically intellectualised into a blown up pose at seriousness as those these words actually matter.
And they say sociology/psychology doesn’t matter! These trumper uppers are not even aware of their own behaviour!
July 31, 2023
@Peter Gardner +1
Our UK Parliament and successive Conservative Governments just like the bureaucratic ‘Blob’ are dyed in the wool ‘remain’ disciples that want and desire to be lead by the unelected, unaccountable elsewhere. They refuse to step up and do their job. They are frightened to be part of a free sovereign democracy so daily fight against it.
So remain a EU Colony we do.
They think they are still carrying out the interference that is required by their overlords elsewhere, Quisling disciples to the core.
July 31, 2023
Expected to see some silly comment to the effect “you have left, you should not be saying anything” and delighted not to be disappointed. Congratulations to Lemming for acting before falling off a cliff.
July 31, 2023
This may help you, Lemming old chap:
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/the-reason-youre-sure-you-remember-something-that-never-happened/
“Scientists think they may understand why our brains produce false memories.”
July 31, 2023
Lemming: EU comment / content – Maybe it’s because we are all too aware of the level of the EU’s ‘oversight’ bodies, fulfilling their promise to keep a close eye on us to ensure we behave ourselves. So, yes there are many of us who wish to know, keep up & keep an eye on what is happening on the other side. Reminder to self – Must check to see what UK infraction fines, if any, are still pending from years ago or if any new ones in the pipeline.
July 31, 2023
Instead of a debt/GDP of <60% the euro area now stands at 91.1%, so you are correct with regards avoiding risks in the future.
But the UK currently stands at a debt/GDP of 100.60%, still higher.
Reply If we were still in Eu we would need to add our share of the growing EU debt to our total
July 31, 2023
For once agree with PVL. A “they’re almost as stupid as us” statement isn’t a vote winner. Why not cut our own debt first, then crow about it?
July 31, 2023
@Sir Joe Soap +1 UK debt is as a result of the Conservative Government punishment regime. It would have been simple to build and economy to fund a future but they chose to ensure the future was destroyed.
July 31, 2023
UK gov. spending as a % of GDP in the UK is far worse still. Furthermore much of government spending is totally wasted or does positive damage. Net zero, the vaccines, the lockdown, the soft loans for duff degrees, the over regulation of everything, energy market rigging, HS2, test and trace, the road blocking, the vast over taxation and over complex taxation, ULEX, the wars on car and road users, landlords, small business, over restrictive planning, the hotels for all illegal open door economic migrants…
July 31, 2023
Absolutely, Lifelogic. I cannot recall such profligate, reckless spending by a tory government.
Btw, you missed the NHS mess.
July 31, 2023
I wonder just how much we’re paying into the EU ….I can never find the actual sum
July 31, 2023
Plus the billion or so give to the French police so they can one assumes help the migrants launch their ribs to set off to Kent.
July 31, 2023
plus the bribes to look the other way on certain beaches at first light.
July 31, 2023
They’re probably the one’s selling them the small boats and guiding them to the right beach ….all in the name of health & safety, after all they’re entitled to go on a day trip on the channel …and they haven’t been arrested for anything
July 31, 2023
The EU you admire so much has achieved a growth rate of 6% since 2008! In the same time the USA has grown north of 80%. The EU sabotaged the U.K. for nearly 50 years. Time we got back to our ‘English System’ so hated on the Continent – capitalism and democracy – and prospered like our ex-colony.
July 31, 2023
I guess we have our own out of control and increasingly expensive debt pile.
July 31, 2023
and the leftie media don’t want to talk about it. Just spend spend spend on all manner of useless services, aid and third party war.
July 31, 2023
@Mickey Taking +1
July 31, 2023
Well, it was George Osborne who never wanted to mention that the Labour government had been borrowing a quarter of all the money that it was spending, and had resorted to borrowing it from the Bank of England.
July 31, 2023
which just goes to show you don’t have to be a leftie to be a disgrace!
July 31, 2023
If it accelerates the collapse of the EU then I am all for such a debt burden continuing its path to unsustainable levels.
July 31, 2023
I gloomily feel that the EU will change the laws of physics and debt at the last minute to squeak out of trouble. Avoiding collapse.
“Debt is the new wealth” or some such Orwellian mantra?
July 31, 2023
Spot on EeverHopeful
‘Debt is the new wealth’ is like ‘Subsidy is the new profit’
July 31, 2023
The EU in reality Germany, is acting like a crazed bank manager agreeing bail-outs to every hopeless, unplanned request for handouts of dosh with little chance of debt repayment.
July 31, 2023
@DOM +1 The EU Commission can change and manipulate their laws, regulations and rules at will as they were never elected, they are not subject to proper democratic challenges. If they think something reflects badly on ‘their being’ they just manipulate it to change its complexion.
July 31, 2023
@Dom: this careless comment will count against you during future applications of EU membership! 🙂 🙂 🙂
July 31, 2023
That will be the day 😂🤣
We are not even holidaying on the Continent anymore.
July 31, 2023
best news I have had since we drew the Ashes earlier……
July 31, 2023
The people in the countries which originally joined the Eurozone were told it would not be a debt union. Each country would have to abide by the rules of the single currency and there would be no bailouts of countries which didn’t comply. That didn’t last long when reality reared its ugly head.
I wonder what those countries currently not in the Eurozone, but committed to join when their economies have sufficiently converged, will think of the proposed increased debt levels and debt mutualisation. I rather suspect most of them will be finding very good reasons why they shouldn’t join the Eurozone …. and in due course, the two tier EU will be created: the Eurozone and an outer tier of Associate Nations, which will include Turkey, Ukraine …… and us, which is why we were not permitted to actually LEAVE the EU.
July 31, 2023
The EU creates complex muddles of Euseless nonsense. It is they who cause them and should pay for their own expensive waste.
July 31, 2023
‘The UK no longer has to pay its share of a fast rising budget, nor accept liability for any share of EU debt now being accumulated.’
Sunak, however, seems to find ways to funnel UK tax payers money across the English Chanel. He handed France a huge amount to stop the boats. Nothing happened. He allows EU fishing boats to plunder our fish stocks. He continues to pursue energy policy that forces us to buy energy from the EU. Naval ships are built in the EU.
Meanwhile vast amounts of printed and borrowed money is squandered on HS2, subsided ‘green’ energy, and net zero, now to include carbon capture and storage.
July 31, 2023
All part of a ‘cunning plan’ leading to ejection from Westminster.
July 31, 2023
@BOF +1
He also pays EU State(Denmark, France) controlled energy firms to supply the UK with its ability to keep industry rolling and the lights on while denying similar home grown production – UK taxpayer money funding EU taxes.
July 31, 2023
Congratulations for drawing attention to this. Another great win from Brexit is that the UK is not facing a mandatory quota of illegal migrants laid down by the EU.
The Government should be making more of the wins from Brexit. I suppose it doesn’t because it is itself entirely to blame for there not being more wins scored by UK itself. Avoiding EU debt and migrant quotas are hardly a credit to either UKG or the Tory Party especially since the latter campaigned in government to remain in the EU and Sunak is a technocrat naturally drawn to the EU and the sole architect of the obsequiously named Windsor Framework committing UK to close regulatory alignment with the EU and Northern Ireland to permanent EU rule.
I hope that in ten or twenty years time the UK will finally have re-learned how to govern itself and will finally be making something of the potential of its independent sovereignty.
July 31, 2023
‘ Another great win from Brexit is that the UK is not facing a mandatory quota of illegal migrants laid down by the EU.’
….but we are still accepting vast numbers of them anyway.
No sign of it stopping any time soon either.
July 31, 2023
Why is is that most democratic countries issue large amounts of debt?
Politicians over promising and under delivering. Banks being able to create money and then change interest on it.
Our own debt situation gives us no cause to look at the EU with disdain and we give away plenty to the EU and others as it is.
There is no incentive for any country to balance a budget.
July 31, 2023
This avoidance of EU debt is another insufficient reason to vote Tory at the next election. This government is busy increasing UK debt, the economy has contracted and public expenditure continues to increase. We have a PM who seems to think the electorate is stupid when he says he wants to support the motorist. Westminster politics has never been more divorced from reality.
July 31, 2023
@MPC The Conservative Government issues punishment without thought to funding the future. Unfortuantly the HoC is home to the majority that are like minded – just free loaders.
July 31, 2023
Figures show that 20mph speed limits cut deaths and serious injuries by 25%, yet this government is planning to restrict their use.
I’m not sure “Vote Tory, get more road deaths” is likely to be a successful strategy.
July 31, 2023
How many is that? 2?
July 31, 2023
really? – evidence please – you know not that supplied by the London Mayor.
July 31, 2023
We could eliminate all slip, trip and fall head injuries by passing a law that everyone should wear a skullcap
July 31, 2023
This website doesn’t allow me to post links, but try places such as the 20’s Plenty website for links to research quoting actual reductions in collisions, injuries and deaths found by various studies from across the country.
August 1, 2023
But Peter, if true it has come at a cost of more pollution, as cars travelling at 20mph in a low gear put out more emissions per mile than a car travelling at a slightly higher speed in a higher gear. Likewise as do speed humps and chicanes with acceleration and braking.
We are told higher emissions kill thousands of people if you believe the London Mayor so I guess it is a choice, you cannot have it both ways.
July 31, 2023
” It is relaxing the limits placed on running deficits at 3% of GDP and on the stock of state debt at 60% of GDP.”
These are requirements of the Maastricht Treaty. This was ratified by national referenda, so how can the EU relax the limits? Doesn’t that require further referenda to repeal the Treaty?
Not in the EU it seems, where the Commission is sovereign to apply or ignore treaties as it pleases.
July 31, 2023
@Davd Andrews agreed the EU Commission is sovereign to apply or ignore treaties as it pleases.
July 31, 2023
For the EU time will tell. They are a very inward protectionist entity, except when it comes to allowing mass illegal immigration.
Rishi seems to at last to have woken up to the idea that he is a Conservative and needs to increasingly, by his actions, reconnect with Conservatives at large. The opposition appear to be playing wait and see, in effect giving Rishi an open goal. Question is, does he have the cohones to discover and implement the policies you SJR have been pushing for a very long time, though seemingly unheard.
Reply I started off the policy announced today to extract more of our own oil and gas
July 31, 2023
Reply to Reply
Good for you SJR, but in teaching terms it must feel like you have a class of mental delinquents before you. For example on the subject of SMRs it appears that government have created a long grass committee to look into them. G Shaaps tells us today that it will be 2029 before any conclusion can be arrived at. Were I running Rolls Royce I would be instructing my sales team to concentrate on any country but the UK, who by all accounts are a total waste of space.
July 31, 2023
Agricola, They have now issued a competition document which most likely means Rolls Royce will not get the contract after all ! Dont forget the eu are building iur warships now!!!!
July 31, 2023
I hope you realise that despite all the advertisements made by Rolls Royce they (RR-SMR) have just submitted their design and have not produced a proper SMR yet.
Anybody who thought that transferring the submarine technology to land electricity production would be a matter of months, maybe a few years, obviously was very optimistic.
One problem discussed last year (30/05/2022) is whether proportionally to its size a SMR would give rise to more or less highly radioactive nuclear waste. The original thought was Smaller Reactor = Smaller Amount of Waste. A report ‘Nuclear waste from small modular reactors’, L.M. Krill et al., 2022, Proc. Nat.Acad.Sci., doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2111833119 warns that the SMR-produced amount of waste is likely to be (much) bigger than what is produced by Light Water Reactors.
I guess that as long as this problem at the back end of the nuclear fuel cycle has not received a proper solution, SMRs are likely to be delayed.
August 1, 2023
I do not think SMRs are particularly promising path to take, other than for some special situations like Subs the main advantage they have is perhaps political, not really in economic or practical terms where large is better.
Coal, oil, gas, fracking, nuclear and sensible well directed R&D will get us to better large scale nuclear reactors and then to practical fusion eventually. Though I do hold shares in RR circa 50% up on when I bought them (about 20 months back), a similar increase in my BP shares my only two sig. holdings.
July 31, 2023
@agricola @REPLY
We can but hope, but the problem existed at the beginning of the 13 years that the Conservative Government have had the power to do something about it. It is still just talk, talk to grab a headline, but as always no action.
A Conservative Government would be a good starting place, but what does the Party that won the election do? – Nothing
July 31, 2023
reply to reply ….and that idiot thinks throwing the usual last minute gifts to the electorate will sway them, and all is forgiven and forgotten?
Not a chance.
July 31, 2023
+1
They’ll probably put the first Rwanda flight in, a month before the next election
July 31, 2023
Reply to reply
And you were also the first to point out the folly of HMG guessing which technology to subsidise for the future rather than letting the market decide – as with all those digital toys the public choose to buy unsubsidised and which then become cheaper and cheaper, the more that are sold. Let us hope boilers and cars are the next things the PM rethinks.
July 31, 2023
It is so refreshing to hear a good Brexit news piece. There have been a few but strangely our Government & HOC never highlight these wins. Perhaps a resume of the Brexit positives should be published on a monthly basis. Along with the costs &/or savings.
July 31, 2023
Great idea
July 31, 2023
I distinctly remember reading a letter from a Tory MP, printed in a national newspaper, in which he sought to reassure readers that the UK would never be liable for the debts of other EU member states because that was forbidden by the Maastricht Treaty. I mentioned that in a comment published here on February 2 2010:
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2010/02/12/is-greece-a-trojan-horse-for-the-debt-crisis/#
“But the following three articles prohibit bailouts, and back in the 1990’s it was those provisions which were emphasised by the euro-enthusiasts … ”
Later, on May 30 2011, Bill Cash had this letter in the Telegraph:
“Christine Lagarde, the French finance minister, is being touted by many, including the Coalition government, as the best candidate to replace Dominique Strauss-Kahn as leader of the International Monetary Fund (Business, May 28). She says that she should get the job because she wants it, and on merit.
In December last year, in relation to the EU bail-out (the European Financial Stabilisation Mechanism) that exposed British taxpayers to failures by eurozone countries, she said: “We violated all the rules because we wanted to close ranks and really rescue the eurozone.” The European Scrutiny Committee has stated that this mechanism was “legally unsound”.
Ms Lagarde insists that European politics must prevail over the rule of law. It is this kind of attitude and policy that undermines international financial stability and disqualifies her for the post.”
She is now the President of the European Central Bank.
Reply The whole point is the EU is now a debt union with the EU now borrowing large sums on its own balance sheet underwritten by the member states.
July 31, 2023
Reply to reply. And they will claw any money they can from the willing treacherous UK Tory govt.!! Or save money by using UK resources for things such as PESCO!! How about the stupid Horizon? Leave means leave. Your party and govt betrayed and is betraying the country. Sunak two weeks ago sacked 5 of your MPs from legislative committee to get his Windsor sell out through!! Francois called it bent then rigged, Cash was scathing nothing like this happened before. Hardly a mention in the press.
July 31, 2023
Hope,
Yes Francois “bent” speech drew little comment. He was asked to withdraw the word. BRINO fudge continues in the hope it will become old news.
I also get the feeling that even Leave MPs are now getting tired but will soldier on until the inevitable election defeat.
July 31, 2023
@ Reply – Quite so, and as you wrote ….and each member state in the system will be jointly liable for the growing EU debt” and I commend your kindness in nodding to German sensitivity by not adding “and severally” to explain the liability.
July 31, 2023
Many of the contemporary sources have since disappeared, but here is a good one from May 11 2010:
http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/they-said-it-wouldnt-happen.html
“They said it wouldn’t happen”
“What was inconceivable only a couple of months ago has now happened: EU leaders have agreed a massive €500 billion bailout package for eurozone countries facing sovereign debt problems – on top of the €110 billion already committed in a separate rescue package for Greece. An additional €250 billion could also come from the IMF should things get really sticky … ”
“3) EU leaders are basing parts of the bailout on Article 122 of the EU Treaties. This is profoundly dishonest and involves a huge legal stretch … As we’ve stated before, the European Council has previously said that any use of this article must be compatible with the no bailout rule in the EU Treaties. This interpretation is now being completely ignored.”
July 31, 2023
At some point the German Constitutional Court will put its foot down and put an end to debts being raised at European level and which are then overwhelmingly imposed on the richer members. The German constitution expressly forbids Germany taking on other country’s debts which is why it has never been possible to form a proper currency union.
Instead, Brussels, aided and encouraged by France and others, has used all kinds of tricks and feignts to achieve the same result by the back door. The latest wheeze is the Green Energy project which follows the huge collective expenditure on the pandemic used to pay for vaccines.
The mystery is why, after several years of muttering about it, the German Court had not acted so far. German voters have no idea of the level of liabilities that they are on the hook for, and yet VdL and the other Brussels apparatchiks continue to dream up new schemes to raise even more money centrally. In the meantime, they are going ahead with plans to expand their empire by taking on more basket cases like Serbia, needing ever-greater subsidies.
We are most definitely better off out of it.
July 31, 2023
@ ChrisS “The mystery is why, after several years of muttering about it, the German Court had not acted so far” – explained by the fact the chief mutterer was retired, it being implied that those still serving know what the “great and the good” are looking for from them, allegedly
One of life’s great mysteries is what the Bundesbank expected to happen eventually after it was coerced into agreeing to Euro membership.
July 31, 2023
Thanks for clearing that up !
It seems from the evidence that the court has been captured by Brussels sympathisers and they are looking the other way, while German taxpayers are increasingly being hung out to dry.
This is profoundly undemocratic and I can’t imagine it would happen here, especially since arch Remainer, Lady Hale, stepped down from our own Supreme Court !
July 31, 2023
They will recoup billions from us anyway by suing us on behalf of Northern Ireland every time they are short. Courtesy of the Usurper’s Windsor Framework.
July 31, 2023
Some in Government and Parliament, have taken to being in the ‘me-to’ camp when the headline suit them. Today’s DT
‘Money-laundering regulations – politically exposed persons.’ Who gets to decide?
In a Sovereign free Democracy the legislators are its Parliament and is lead by its Government, where the laws, regulations and rules are defined, created, amended and repealed.
As I see it this is a law/regulation imposed by a bureaucratic unelected uncountable EU Commission, should have no legitimacy. That is the denial of the existence of a Sovereign Democracy
So who is the UK Legislator? The foreign unelected or a Democratic UK Parliament?
What ever you say Sir John your Conservative Government gives the appearance of being subordinate to a foreign power before those that elected them.
EU Costs to the UK come in many guises.
July 31, 2023
It would be more of a benefit if UK wasn’t also up to its neck in debt with, incidentally, about a third of UK government debt in index-linked bonds, far more than the EU and USA, which is a big problem given their inability to control inflation.
Anyway, a very interesting article. As I have noted before the Remainer EU-fanatic community have no knowledge or interest in what the EU or individual EU countries are doing, they just assume it is all good.
July 31, 2023
In the past 13 years Conservative government policies of tax, borrow and spend have doubled the national debt from £1.2 trillion to £2.4 TRILLION – now at 104% of GDP. Your sudden aversion to EU debt, whilst indeed laudable, reminds one of shutting the stabe door after the horse has bolted.
July 31, 2023
SG
Covid
July 31, 2023
COVID is thought to have cost £299 bn in 2020-21 and £200 bn in 2021-22. Over the last 13 years that still makes £700 bn to be accounted for.
August 1, 2023
Yet the parties on the left in the UK want even more state spending and borrowing.
August 1, 2023
Stairlift2, and how much did the 2008 crash cost and the interest repayments and loss on bailouts, some £££s still to be recouped from the likes of RBS.
No one appears to congratulate this Tory government for keeping interest rates historically low, under 2% for much of those 13 years, allowing people to get on top of their mortgage repayments and loans if they were smart. Previously they’d not dropped below 5% for most of the century.
We were dallying with a labour government that spent like a drunken sailor, who dropped the mortgage sensibilities of loans to earnings and the checks on applicants and signed up to PFI agreements willy nilly. Wrote poor doctors and dentists contracts in 2004 that led to the numbers of dentists offering NHS slots dropping year after year.
2022 There are 468,400 FTE teachers, which is an increase of 2,800 since last year and an increase of 27,000 since 2010 when the school workforce census began. There are 281,100 FTE teaching assistants, which is an increase of 5,300 since last year and an increase of 59,600 since 2011 when the census began collecting support staff information.
July 31, 2023
who said the stable door has been shut?
July 31, 2023
With this Conservative Governments zeal for punishment first and reinforced with banning a future as opposed to grow and fund they way forward, the EU Debt Club is a mere shadow in comparison. Even Germany’s 1.25 trillion euros is a drop in the ocean compared to the NetZero financial punishment this Conservative Government is dishing out on every taxpayer in the UK.
When the UK wins the NetZero race, and when the Government of the day realises it had no effect on World Pollution, but instead increased it exponential by the import only policy – what then?. Having trashed the Country and its economy where does it generate the funds to adjust the UK to cope with the World Pollution created by those not engaged with the UK in the race?
July 31, 2023
Both the BBC & Sky news this morning stated in their ‘uk oil licence’ reports that wind-turbines where a ‘’considerable cheaper’’ way of producing electricity …..unchallenged false news, unchallenged by the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, unchallenged by government
July 31, 2023
In other false news, that still burning car container ship in the north-sea that was reported to only have 25 EVs ….now being reported to have 500 EVs https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-28/burning-ship-operator-says-almost-500-electric-cars-are-on-board
Not that you’ll heard that on the BBC or Sky
July 31, 2023
So in the face of the very pleasing news “It is relaxing the limits placed on running deficits at 3% of GDP and on the stock of state debt at 60% of GDP. Each country will be able to agree with the EU laxer debt totals for policies the EU likes” can an early appointment be made for H.M. Treasury mandarins to seek agreement for the U.K. to have laxer totals?
July 31, 2023
Sir John,
There is a clear warning here for those member states that are small, wealthy, and net contributors to the EU – leave now while you still can.
July 31, 2023
…and don’t go for the deal option, go straight on WTO terms and be free
July 31, 2023
We’re all coming through an awful period of turmoil first we had the banking crisis then the covid and now the war all following on one after another from which we are still all suffering – we are not living in normal times. But am confident things will shape up again when the war is over and it will be a time for rebuilding for renewal. We have to admit that the EU as a group looks to be in a better place to take advantage when the upturn happens
July 31, 2023
Well said.
Absolutely – but we are still it seems giving money to the EU due to various machinations by them.
It was never going to work well – providing loans to small EU countries at the same rate as the bigger ones. The small countries were always inclined to go overboard and accrue debt they couldn’t afford, expecting to be bailed out.
Just imagine how much of that EU debt we’d have been forced to pay if we’d remained in the EU.
What was the name of that ex-EU president that said something to the effect that the EU was doomed to get poorer and poorer as it became more politically aligned?
July 31, 2023
Funny
My post about Common Purpose appears to have disappeared
Any particular reason?
Reply This site does not follow or comment on bodies like Common Purpose or WEF as a general rule. I concentrate on UK,EU, US government publications and policies, commenting on the work and decisions of Ministers, senior officials and quango heads. Pl go elsewhere to discuss these other bodies.
July 31, 2023
The EU has always relied on Germany to stabilise its financial position and Germany went along with this ideal as a means to assuage its guilt. Some countries like Poland still want compensation for the devastation caused by the previous German atrocity and they are not alone . The EU cannot overcome history and wrinkles will persist in whatever attempts are made to paste over the past . When the UK left the EU it was akin to removing the elastoplast from the wound . No matter what attempts are made to formulate the EU as a unity , individual national identity will prevail .
July 31, 2023
I’ve just posted on the Conservative Woman website that my comment has disappeared
July 31, 2023
A web site called Conservative Anything uses that stealth moderation technique (including Con. Home). If they don’t like what you post then they let you see your post appear (or an up/down-vote).. then they delete it instantly.
Presumably they hope you won’t notice. If you ask them about it, they don’t respond.
Software-based media allow all sorts of shenanigans that are not the case in print.
July 31, 2023
So we can safely assume that you’re a member of CP then?
July 31, 2023
LC – any comment on here that does not follow the narrative is not posted .Truth hurts.
July 31, 2023
not quite true, nor fair…..a tactic that probably works is to hold over a painful message and release when few will see it.
July 31, 2023
I guess UK citizens resident in Northern Ireland will have these EU proposals imposed by the UK government acting as a legal proxy for the EU, while UK citizens resident in Great Britain may also have similar proposals imposed by the UK government acting on its own initiative to keep in line with the EU.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.html?uri=cellar:05b634bd-1b4e-11ee-806b-01aa75ed71a1.0001.02/DOC_1&format=PDF
“Despite these actions and the growing awareness of the negative impacts and consequences of food waste, political commitments made at EU and Member State levels and EU measures implemented since the 2015 CEAP, food waste generation is not sufficiently decreasing to make significant progress towards SDG Target 12.3. In the EU, despite the existing legal obligations in the WFD and the supporting activities of the Commission, action taken to date in Member States is disparate and has not allowed a significant reduction of food waste levels. The setting of targets is therefore a necessary next step … ”
Because the EU has been disappointed by some of the Member States, they know who they are …
July 31, 2023
We never hear of this when the usual widgets ask “Can you name a Brexit benefit?”.
July 31, 2023
It’s not as though we have no debt problems. However, they would be grotesquely exacerbated had we been under the control of Brussels.
July 31, 2023
Just wait and see UK debt increase when automotive jobs are lost and we rely upon Chinese imported EVs
Don’t believe anything you hear, the 2030 petrol car ban is still going ahead
July 31, 2023
And in 2029 I plan to order a new Toyota petrol engined car which will, no doubt, see me out of this madhouse.
July 31, 2023
Actually, I’ll buy three. And mothball two of them to leave to my sons.
July 31, 2023
hear hear
July 31, 2023
As often happens when I read these articles, I burst out laughing. Here we are, over £2.6 trillion in debt, borrowing £5k EVERY SECOND – and a Brexit win is not being like the naughty EU piling up debt! It’s the way you tell them.
July 31, 2023
often a Brexit win is like losing a £50 note, but later finding a Fiver.
August 1, 2023
Brexit has not yet been fully accomplished nor achieved. All thanks to the die-hard remainers still residing in Parliament, the civil service and many orgs and industries. Until these and those with vested interests in the EU, respect the democratic decision of the British people to leave, it will be forcefully delayed until more gullible citizens join the existing ‘return’ list, naively thinking that our salvation will be to return to serve under the jackboots of Brussels. The EU was contrived by Germany and France for the benefit of Germany and France as has been proven over the past decades.
So why would anyone want to be ruled by an unelected and unaccountable cabal of foreigners, aka The European Commission, when they can hire and if so desired, fire their own National Government and at regular intervals?
July 31, 2023
PM’s Energy Plan
For the first time the PM is talking sense on energy. You and your contributors have been doing so for a very long time, dare I suggest we got through to him. Next time you get an opportunity remind him not to ignore the frackable gas beneath our feet. It must be much cheaper than gas extracted from maritime locations.
Now that his problems are on holiday it is time for a few more common sense proposals.
Regarding Nett Zero, ULEZ and the car industry leave it to science and engineering with targets and rewards for achievement. NZ is a laudable goal on health grounds alone, but not through compulsion or zealotry.
Remove all that residual EU legislation and specifically that which has fertilised the current banking scandal, and other which hobbles our financial sector, our biggest earner.
While there are many other running sores like the NIP and illegal immigration, the NHS , phone response times in public and private services, etc etc etc ; I am pleased to acknowledge that a first Conservative logical step has been taken. Ensure there are many more in quick succession before the nay sayers return from play.
July 31, 2023
”leave it to science” No leave it to the consumer
July 31, 2023
What do we buy from the EU? When I say ‘we’ I mean ‘you’. Most electronic stuff is made in China. I decided after our botched Brexit to stop buying goods or food from the EU.
I’d rather support UK producers wherever I can.
Our balance of trade figures are a scandal.
July 31, 2023
In this government backed and inspired woke & green world; its nice to note that a heterosexual couple, driving a soft top sports car has topped all box office records
July 31, 2023
Controlling our debt isn’t a priority for this government
BBC reporting that Sunak has committed £20bn ‘Twenty Billion’ for carbon capture
You only need to have a net-zero carbon capture strategy if you completely agree with and fully endorse the UN IPCC report on global warming ….don’t remember seeing this big spend/debt in the manifesto
Everyday is another step to the left
July 31, 2023
or to put it another way – Everyday is an even bigger bonkers step.
July 31, 2023
I stand corrected
July 31, 2023
He also committed £26 billion for COP after he became PM, hard on the heels of Miss Truss being overthrown by him and his friends for wanting to cut the top rate of tax which would have been either cost neutral or beneficial.
July 31, 2023
Everyone shouting off here and for decades elsewhere saying that they are the best and everyone still gets it wrong.Dream on competitors it’s all mouth.
July 31, 2023
The difference between billions and trillions is only a few zeros.
July 31, 2023
We are in a good place now because Covid has come and gone, the war with Russia is not going Putin’s way and he will be replaced soon or else have to find some way to back down and this also puts the Chinese on notice that if they start any nonsense out in the Pacific region they are likely to get a bloody nose just the same. As I say The West has been tested and we are in a good position now – we only need to wait for normalcy to return to Ukraine but in any case never to trust the Russians or Chinese again ever and that means never relying on them again for anything like gas or minerals of any sort – this time we should draw the iron curtain
August 1, 2023
This is one of the factors which worried me after having a Prime Minister like Margaret Thatcher who had been brought up to not buy things you could not pay for up front. I have the same ideals but they seem to have gone through the roof with modern generations here as well as in the EU so it is good that we are once again just looking after this country but something needs to be done quickly to stop people taking on large loans which they cannot repay. Live for today and forget tomorrow is not good enough. Live within your means.