The latest immigration figures show the government should have listened to those of us who said they needed to tighten the rules over inviting in economic migrants and students. Last year to June 2023 1.2 million came to stay in the UK, with 508,000 leaving. All the people coming need housing, health care, schools for the children. The 508,000 leaving free some housing, but not necessarily the right type in the right places for those arriving.
The costs of all this are very large for taxpayers. There is a growing danger we cannot offer enough decent housing and public services for our new arrivals. The government needs urgently to raise the income level for a job that qualifies for a work permit, and to enforceĀ new rules over students’ dependants whose numbers have shot up.
In 2016 Commissioner Timmermans, today in the news contesting the Netherlands election for the left/Greens alliance, made proposals about burden sharing for EU migrants. He told the EU that member states should make a payment of 250,000 Euro for every migrant a country did not want to take under its quota for sharing the influx of migrants around the Union. That was probably a fair assessment then of the capital costs of providing new homes andĀ public service provision, along with the early running costs borne by the state.
I think the UK should produce an updated figure for us today. It may well be that around Ā£250,000 is a fair guess. A new social home costs around Ā£300,000 to provide, but much of that is family not single person housing. A new school place costs say Ā£20,000 to provide the building,Ā averaging primaries and secondaries. The annual cost of a secondary school place is above Ā£6000 and of a primary place above Ā£4600.Ā Adding an additional 600,00-700,000 people a year probably needs a couple of new District General hospitals at say Ā£500m each as well as new surgeries. The annual cost per person of NHS provision is now more than Ā£4000.
This shows that the so called cheap labour we invite in may help employers but createsĀ a headache for public spending. The bogus figures that say a low paid incoming worker profits the state leave out all the extra capital provision to provide the services and homes, and leaves out the running costs of the public services they need. If one extra person comes in we can find an empty home and a spare school place. If a million come in we need to build two or three new cities to provide for them.
So government, change policy. The Treasury says adding more people adds to economic growth and adds to total tax revenue. They do not tell us how much it adds to public spending or what it does to GDP per head. The Health department says it means we can staff our care homes and social work settings with new people. We also though need to recruit a lot more of them to provide all the extra healthcare for all the new arrivals. There is a lot to be said for fewer invitations and better pay for people already here to fill the posts.
November 24, 2023
Good morning.
And
Why ? Why should the State take on this burden ? Where does it say it is obliged to do so ? No other country does this. So again I say – Why ?
As I said elsewhere. We have Socialised the losses and privatised the profits. We have provided subsidies to universities and to big business by doing the above. No person who is not a UK Citizen should have any access to any State provision. They should come here and have either their services provided by their employer or by themselves.
MASS IMMIGRATION does not affect those who can afford private healthcare or expensive housing. Money makes them more mobile. But those at the other end of the scale are less mobile and more susceptible to the negative effects of MASS IMMIGRATION. To that end, and as I said here before, on top of not allowing non-UK nationals access to State provision, we should not allow any non-UK citizen to own property worth less than say Ā£1m.
If you will not care for us, why should we care for you at the next GE ?
November 24, 2023
The costs are not high. There are no costs. There are only benefits. Every single economic study ever undertaken shows that this country benefits from immigration, because immigrants contribute far more in work and in tax than they cost.
reply Complete nonsense. The study was about the narrow issue of tax paid versus benefit top ups. You need to look at total public sector costs including housing and free services. There is a big cost for lower paid workers.
November 24, 2023
Councils still use a point system for housing based on need (not where they come from like other countries) not indigenous people who pay into the pot. Back of the queue for social housing for local people. How many more urban ghettos is your govt going to build?
Cries for more housing building by Uni Party should that now change for cries for more cities instead to keep up with ridding our nation state, way of life and third world status. How many can find a good quality NHS dentist at the moment?
November 24, 2023
Still welfare claimants get 6.7% pay rise with no tax, low paid workers get 20% taxed very quickly. No point working beyond 16 hrs for many. Now Huntās huge welfare incentive come all ye immigrants.
November 24, 2023
That is not true. Studies show that *on average* immigrants contribute more (on some chosen basis) but if you break that down by the socioeconomic class and point of origin of the immigrant there is a wide range with those at the “cheap labour” end contributing far less than they cost. Just from memory I think it is high-paid workers from USA who economically contribute the most to UK as immigrants. Controlling that spread is supposed to be one of the benefits of a points-based system which we have but apparently don’t use properly.
November 24, 2023
When my son worked in the US he had to pay for his own health care, housing etc. also US look at skills brought and whether US citizen could fill role. Come to the land of the free at English taxpayers expense.
November 24, 2023
There is none so blind as he who will not see.
Is there a limit in your utopia or is it just open doors?
November 24, 2023
Migration Advisory Committee another failed quango ripe for scrapping. A total waste of space,time and money. Home Office, ministers and govt should make decisions not escape responsibility to blame yet another quango.
November 24, 2023
The government has no clue as to whether 508,000 left or not. There is no border record of exit checks so it is an estimate only.
The supermarkets and effluent discharges are a more accurate figure of the population and they estimate 80 million
It’s all lies from this government and still no growth. Perhaps we’re not Importing enough
November 24, 2023
If every immigrant contributes more than they take, why is our national debt rising?
Surely this overall benefit would have wiped out the deficit by now?
November 24, 2023
Lemming
Clearly you have accurate figures to prove your case ?
Nobody, especially theGovernment, really knows how many people are coming in and going out, as no-one is counting them, or the overstayers, or the illegals by their very nature.
House prices are high, rents are high and increasing, school places are limited, hospital and doctors waiting lists are growing, and the roads are more crowded because the population is growing at a huge rate and faster than either our housing or infrastructure can manage.
We do not have a housing crisis we have a population crisis, and all of them given access to our Benefits healthcare and school systems without a single contribution, Madness.
November 24, 2023
Even people earning the average wage to not contribute enough for just the direct benefits they claim like schooling, education, housing benefits, the NHS, ambulancesā¦ let also the vast general overheads of government like defence, government debt interest, roads, police, social services, public transportā¦ true this is often because the government are so vastly wasteful and so hugely misdirected too.
The studies you refer to were dishonest or incompetent and used mainly to politically justify large scale immigration. If you bring in only top engineers, surgeons who have Ā£600k already to but their own houses then perhaps.
November 24, 2023
If all these young men (typical of the small boats) were to stay single all their lives and are employed at some way over average income, then they might add to GDP or whatever measure you wish to use.
Otherwise they will consume benefits of our society without meeting the costs.
November 24, 2023
I think that what you say is EXACTLY what the powers that be believe(d).
Plus they think that we can not survive without mass immigration and must abandon any notion of homogeneity. (Or the EU needed to undermine it!).
But then, from recent events, we can see precisely how much their beliefs are worth.
And personally I do not subscribe to the views of mega rich business menā¦they do not care about any of us!
November 24, 2023
Lemming is 100% correct. Every study ever done shows that overall migration improves growth. Of course it does. More workers, more tax. Donāt you even know how economic growth occurs, John Redwood?
Reply Not so. More workers on low pay incur public spending and benefits higher than any tax they pay, and more low paid work lowers GDP per head.
November 24, 2023
are you related to the Chancellor? It might explain a lot.
November 24, 2023
I fear there is not just ignorance here of how economic growth works, there is a basic misunderstanding of statistics too. Overall immigrants pay more in tax than they claim in benefits (because they work hard, want to get on, etc) – all economic surveys show this. So immigration helps boost growth and helps society generally. The fact that SOME immigrants claim more in benefits than they pay in tax does not alter the overall truth. I know you Brexiters are allergic to evidence and facts, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist
Reply The evidence is clear that someone on low pay does ,not pay more in tax than they receive in benefits and you must also consider the costs I have set out today
November 24, 2023
The economic surveys will only report back the results the people who ordered them want.
November 24, 2023
Lemming
From the statistics you have seen, please advise how many people have emigrated into this Country over just the last two decades, then advise me of their sex, age, and origin (Male, Female, children, Country)
If you cannot provide this very basic information, then how do you gain rather more detailed information on earnings, tax paid, and Benefits granted.
I suggest to you that even the Government has no idea to the above basic information.
If they have I would be pleased to see it !
November 24, 2023
By your logic Lemming, if we allowed in several million new arrivals every year we would all get much better off.
November 24, 2023
Think of it this way. On 1st January, 750,000 people arrive. Most immigrants come without much capital, however hard working they might be. By the next 1st January, when the next lot arrive, they have to build for themselves schools, houses, hospitals, shops, furniture, car parks – you name it. Can they do that in a year? Of course not. The bulk of the cost has to come from the pre-existing population before the immigrants contribute anything at all to anyone else.
Mass immigration only ever makes sense in new countries where the cost of those things is negligible. That is emphatically not the case in the UK.
November 24, 2023
I’m incredulous at the idea that post-peak oil the UK can manage to construct housing for 700,000 people per year coming to the UK plus the needs of existing residents.
That task may need 350,000-450,000 dwellings per year. It seems unmanageable. The UK only managed to build enough housing for its indigenous population during the ‘post-war consensus’ in the 1950s and 60s, when Harold Macmillan and Harold Wilson were PM. That’s ancient history to most people now alive. Immigration was fairly low in the 50s/60s, so one didn’t need to add an extra 200,000 dwellings per year to cater for the incomers.
There’s a press story that there are ulterior motives behind this ridiculous rate of immigration, linked to an ex-PM’s desire for compulsory digital ID cards. In a common law country, no to ID cards and no to the extreme authoritarianism of that ex-PM.
November 24, 2023
Estimated figures JR, revised up last year. Why estimates, it is a question of national security who comes and goes! It shows complete contempt of the nation and the public have every reason to not trust a word your dishonest party says.
Whether it be Brexit, economy and immigration. Still EU 4,000 laws remain on our books. Project fear chief Cameron back as foreign secretary in Charge of EU policy!!!
November 24, 2023
The figure was 1 million 172,000!, that is one year a deliberate choice by Sunak and Hunt. 1.2 million visas issued the year before. We want actual numbers not estimates our safety depends on who comes and goes and your govt. should make it itās business to know.
November 24, 2023
Precisely. If they’re counting visas issued, why do they have to estimate? I suspect it’s because they don’t control the borders and count/monitor who enters and leaves, so they are admitting that people who entered without a visa are just staying.
November 24, 2023
When my daughter emigrated to Australia, a condition of her visa was that she had to support herself financially, or if she was unable to, her husband (Australian) must!
Easy for us to do this, surely?
November 24, 2023
This is the case here now. My son in law was supported by us all until he found work in his highly skilled field.
November 24, 2023
ā¦and their visa has a probationary period of a year ā¦they can kick you out for ānoā reason within the first year, and your conduct review has to be excellent to remain beyond one year
November 24, 2023
“No person who is not a UK Citizen should have any access to any State provision.”
Have you ever read the Ts and Cs that come with the visas the UK government issues? This is a standard statement. UK visas state that the visa holder has no access to the benefits system, no access to social housing etc. On top of that, every visa application includes, alongside it, an NHS surcharge (so on top of the tax immigrants pay, they pay again for NHS access).
November 24, 2023
U.K. citizenship is cheap. Nothing to do with the homogenous British nation.
Scrap all U.K. citizenship. Scrap all NI numbers – they were dispersed like confetti.
Letās get back to reality. Letās define ourselves officially, we are any mixture of the 4 nations, English, Irish, Scots and Welsh. Thatās it!
November 24, 2023
it costs thousands and one has to repeat every few years and money to the NHS as well every time.
November 24, 2023
You can buy your way into a nation like you can buy a new sex. Impossible. A shock for the political class who set up a market in citizenship, but they are not God. More like Conan the Destroyer!
November 25, 2023
How much does it cost to educate a child in the State system? About Ā£6000 p.a., isn’t it?
November 25, 2023
26 Apr 2023 ā In total, average per-pupil funding in schools for 2023-24 is Ā£7,460. You may also be interested in: What is pupil premium funding for schools …there are SEN extras, free school meals in London and other poor areas.
https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/04/26/school-funding-everything-you-need-to-know/
November 24, 2023
Exactly, why is the State taking this on when other Countries don’t, pay your own way or leave. Could benefits like free housing, food, phones etc. only be available for children and people who have been here for sixteen or eighteen years? Shouldn’t we just have hostels, minimum basic accommodation like Japanese sleeping pots with mixing rooms to learn English and watch tv. The pull is because we are overly generous. Khan gives out social housing in London disproportionately.
November 24, 2023
Net migration to Hungary 2023 was apparently 6059 people. A year the took in lots of refugees from Ukraine. OK, the Hungarian language and lowish income levels are deterrents to migrants, but political will is driving their low net immigration rates.
Political will here drives high net immigration rates.
Oh, and now Cameron is back he wants to give more of our money away in overseas aid. Maybe we should spend it on our infrastructure first? Just suggesting…
November 24, 2023
The Australian point system was to reduce and stop low paid immigration. Instead the bar was set deliberately low on all counts to con the public. Liars.
Students can bring their families for low grade degrees!!
November 24, 2023
About 75% or UK degrees are virtually worthless and often in rather worthless subjects. Certainly worth far less than they cost. I suspect many only pay for them as a way to get then and families into the country. Or because the UK often give them soft loans ro do so.
November 24, 2023
Who is paying the university fees, do they get British student loans?
November 24, 2023
How many UK mums and dad’s accompany their student children (or husbands and wives) to university to hold their hand. Why do it for foreigners? They can study, get their degrees and go back, but by the time they have been here 3 or more years, is that likely? I simply don’t believe the figures saying they do.
November 24, 2023
Probably some of those Ukrainians are actually ethnic Hungarians from Transcarpathia which was annexed to Soviet Ukraine by Stalin at the end of WWII.Russia has handed over to Hungary ethnic Hungarian pows that had been pressed into service in the Ukrainian army
November 24, 2023
Good points but I suspect Ā£250k is quite an underestimate. Plus they are mainly lower earners and most will pay less in tax in than they get back directly in benefits, schooling, healthcare, free school meals, subsidised, housingā¦let alone contribute to the costs of government, defence, police, social services, roads, debt interest, refuseā¦
Good to see one sensible person on Any Questions Isabel Hardman for a change. The Tory Science Minister still pretending we had a tax cut yesterday when the reverse is clearly the case. Needless to say he is not a scientist but a law graduate/accountant/banker. The BBC Chairwoman said abolition of Non Dom status would raise Ā£3.6 Bn – totally wrong, it will raise a net negative sum (as money will leave) rather like VAT on school fees (beloved by Starmer & socialist Gove) which will also cost more than it raises.
November 24, 2023
Yes, inexperienced/inappropriate people running large ministries and making a mess of it seems to be the MO of this government.
I was struck by the Orwellian title to this piece, from our host with a normally understated style. To say ‘Too Many People’ will, I’m sure, have the Davos members’ ears pricking up and devising new and interesting ways to reduce it, if that becomes widespread policy. Our democracies are wobbling and there are authoritarians chaffing in the wings.
Dangerous times.
November 24, 2023
So āImmigration Minister Robert Jenrick has drawn up a set of proposals to attempt to cut immigration to the UK. The ideas, which he has shared with No 10, are not yet government policy, but are being discussed internally. Among the suggestions are a required minimum annual salary of Ā£35,000 in order to receive a work visa.ā
Well after 13 years who would trust the Tories now. Interestingly Ā£35,000 is less than they pay many junior doctors about Ā£2,400 PCM. It is also not remotely enough to buy or rent a house, heat amd light it, run a small car or commute much and keep a wife and two children in most regions. Tax and NI paid in is about Ā£7,000 and not enough to cover the cost of one school place.
Reply Yes, I argue for a higher salary to qualify for a visa.
November 24, 2023
What are Labour proposing to change on Non-Doms, the length of stay? I just looked up Non-doms and it says “Non-doms will be classed as deemed domiciled for income tax, CGT and IHT purposes if they have been UK resident for tax purposes for 15 out of the last 20 tax years. For income tax and CGT purposes, the deemed domicile status can be broken by a period of non-UK residence.”
“The individual will have a 90-day tie for the tax year if they have spent more than 90 days in the UK in either or both of the previous 2 tax years immediately before the year under consideration”.
“If you spend 183 days (6 months) or more in the UK in a tax year you will be resident in the UK for that year in almost all cases. People are normally considered to have spent a particular day in the UK if they are in the UK at midnight at the end of that day.”
November 24, 2023
Unbelievable Iām 77 and have been saying this for years. I fear that it is too late you should join Reform.
November 24, 2023
I’ve urged Sir John to declare Independent before, but instead he wishes to fight his seat for the same Party, probably realising he will be across the floor with many fewer so-called Tories who surived the day of the ‘biro crosses’.
November 24, 2023
Wokingham appears marginal now, hopefully the other two split the vote equally. In my old age I support thoughtful independent-minded MPs of whatever party. I hate the thought that nearly all MPs since the 1990s for Lab. and 2000s for Cons. have been chosen and vetted centrally, in line with ‘standard criteria’ and few of them have any ‘life experience’. Dire. Far better for some MPs to have a ‘real job’ for 30 years and come into politics at say 50-55.
November 24, 2023
Plus many.
Everyone should,act with conviction. Uni party needs to be sacked.
November 24, 2023
Reform are our only hope Barbara. Iāve voted, even canvassed for the not a Conservative Party all my life but never again. The big state, high tax, pro immigration usurper and his useless pro EU cabinet have insulted us with their lies and incompetence once too often. Absolutely nothing to choose between them and Labour. The sooner they are annihilated the better and then the real Conservatives, Reform, can take their place.
November 24, 2023
@ Barbara
Why have you been saying āI am 77 for yearsā when it cannot have been true other than for one?
November 24, 2023
I think you need to read the post again LL.
November 24, 2023
…not used to English positioning of verbs, nouns, adjectives, tense?
November 24, 2023
Too many people may suit large corporations who want a large pool of people to keep their costs low. It may suit short termers who believe importing adults of working age will reduce costs associated with raising children born in this country. It may also suit globalists who want to tear down borders and reduce the cohesion of the nation state.
The indigenous population of this country and many others are fed up with it. This can and will be reflected in politics here and abroad. Anti immigration candidates are being elected in Germany, France, Italy and now the Netherlands. So traditional parties will have a big task trying to thwart the aims of anti immigration advocates, though the inevitable clashes may be manipulated to suit the agenda of globalism.
Those in government here donāt wish to change policy.
November 24, 2023
The indigenous people plus settled immigrants during the last decade or two, can witness the disturbing effect the mixed cultures are having in UK. Our birthrate is falling, yet the percentage of parents who were not born here keeps rising, the challenges of English taught in schools, but a different language used at home. The cultures tend to group into areas of specific cities, following a pattern that is evident in US cities, even becoming no-go areas where incomers are not welcome. Police control and activity reduces and local crime takes over. Schools often become termed inner-city which avoids saying ‘neglected and deprived’. Of course revolt takes many forms but most are not for the benefit of the general populace.
November 24, 2023
Mickey,
A quick figure to keep in mind is that for the last few years 28-29% of live births in this country were to women who were NOT born here…
November 24, 2023
and I bet they had more than one pregnancy here.
November 24, 2023
Our own government is the enemy of the people, our history and community
November 24, 2023
āthe so called cheap labour we invite in may help employers but creates a headache for public spendingā Indeed and it also depresses the wages of others doing the same jobs, thus reducing the tax and NI that they pay in too and also increasing the benefits paid to then.
November 24, 2023
Good Morning Sir John.
I found your piece very interesting and thought provoking this morning. I wonder how many of our new arrivals actually become net contributors to our economy during their lifetime. Not many I suspect.
Another question that should be asked is what is a sustainable and optimum size for our population? I have heard a figure of around forty five million mooted in the past by a very well known naturalist and award winning TV presenter and documentary maker.
November 24, 2023
Stanley Johnson thought 25 million when he was on GB News a few months ago!
November 24, 2023
There should be two consideration on the immigration form
Wage levels and type of job. If the immigrant is coming to work in the social care sector or NHS (patient facing) then they are contributing in a way that is not directly economic and should be able to earn less. Their visa should state that they can only stay while they work and can only work in social care or patient care.
Any other workers should be earning 10% more than median wage (for the job they are doing), it should be more expensive to hire an immigrant.
Students do not need their families here.
November 24, 2023
It is normal for officials, politicians, NGOs and anyone peddling issues of public policy to employ dodgy data to advance their chosen causes. The case for more immigration is but the current, in the news, shocking example. I have zero confidence in the state doing anything about it because the organs of the state itself are out of control. This is also all too evident from the relentless rise in public spending, debts and taxation.
November 24, 2023
Balkanising Europe will lead to the same future as the past in the Balkans.
November 24, 2023
Well that’s the money side taken care of in the debate. Mass immigration has very limited economic benefit and then only to a select few.
What about the non-profit side of things? The real human side of things that count towards a happy cohesive nation and people.
Mass immigration has been sold as good for our diversity through multi-culture, which we desperately needed, apparently.
The fact of the matter is it is destroying our cohesiveness, destroying our own culture and will in time turn this once reasonably peaceful settled nation, into a seething mass of the worlds ills all played out on our streets.
This of course is not the fault of the individual immigrant. This is a deliberate political policy taken by those who wish to see this land as nothing more than a mix of people as consumer blobs. The less people feel any deep rooted attachment to the land and its history etc. the more ripe they are for manipulation and less likely to oppose money making schemes involving concreting over everything for profit.
There is also a huge dollop of hatred for the heritage population here by those who see themselves as our moral guardians, who must oversee our eternal shame and knee bending for our forefathers apparent never ending misdemeanours.
Most of the type ensure they do not live in those diversely enriched areas though.
The governing of this land will become harder by consent from so many differing cultures and expectations. Human nature dictates there will always be a struggle for top dog status. Ever more laws and dictates will be needed to control such. Perhaps that too is on the bucket list for those who see themselves as all reigning. A much tighter grip on power over the masses.
November 24, 2023
Well said.
Those “pushing” the immigration destruction like to claim that “diversity is our strength.” That’s straight out of The Ministry of Truth in 1984….. and is the opposite of the truth. A cohesive society is strong; a fractured society made up of disparate groups who have little or nothing in common, is weak.
And as we’ve seen on the streets of London recently, importing millions of people from areas with ancient religious, cultural or political enmities doesn’t create a peaceful society.
November 24, 2023
We know the real reason for mass immigration but politicians for whatever reason choose to remain silent. Labour and SNP’s sinister silence because they despise indigenous Britain and Tory silence, most of that party, because they’re morally bankrupt and without conscience
Hungary and Poland control immigration with admirable success. The cost of this is EU condemning these nations as ‘far right’ and ‘xenophobic’ though this utterly offensive political tactic is now growing tiresome as we can see the aim is to slander and silence those who oppose the Neo-Marxist cultural reconstruction of the west
I
November 24, 2023
Elites will now be concerned about the trend to the xenophobic right in the European elections. That points to the EU offloading more on to us. I doubt the Uniparty-whoever’s in charge here-will respond.
November 24, 2023
“There is a growing danger we cannot offer enough decent housing and public services for our new arrivals.”
We don’t provide sufficient decent housing and public services for our own people, do we?
All very depressing!
November 24, 2023
Sir John, you have been complaining for years about increases in public spending. Your blog piece today sets out very clearly a major reason why public spending has increased: your government’s policy of having a low qualificational bar to legal migration. The people your government waved in have turned out to need a great deal of money spent on them. You inherited from Blair’s Labour government the policy objective of encouraging high levels of migration, and now it seems to be in overdrive. In 2010 net migration was 250,000, now it’s three times that figure. Your party has been in government all that time, and must surely take responsibility for that.
Still, at least you are facing up to the situation with some honesty, which is totally absent from government ministers. Millions of extra arrivals needing housing and social services of all kinds: not one Tory housing minister to my knowledge has spoken publicly of the link between population increase through migration, and massively increased housing requirements.
Now the pressure on building land is affecting Conservative electoral support in the shires, as people move out of towns and cities with rising migrant-origin populations. I think your colleagues should have woken up earlier to the unintended consequences their immigration policy would have.
Reply I have regularly taken popular spending reduction proposals to Ministers in recent years. These have always included fewer migrants cut spending pressures on housing and public service. I have been the only MP to highlight costs, using the EU estimate of 250,000 Euros. The government has never denied that figure but has failed to come up with an up to date UK number.
November 24, 2023
Please explain why when students come to this country to learn are they allowed to bring in there families , thatās got to account to thousands of foreigners to be housed and looked after makes the few coming in by dinghy a drop in the ocean
November 24, 2023
The question is who is paying for the university course and the student digs? Are they able to work during their studies? If they bring families are they eligible for British benefits from day 1 of arrival?
November 25, 2023
The question is who is paying for the university course and the student digs?
Depending on where the student is coming from, proof of finance is required as part of the visa application process. From the official government site:
How much money you need depends on where you will be studying. Youāll need either:
Ā£1,334 per month (for up to 9 months) for courses in London
Ā£1,023 per month (for up to 9 months) for courses outside London
Are they able to work during their studies?
It depends on the course being studied. During term time, part time work (10 or 20 hours a week) is permitted for some courses, for others it is no, you can’t work at all. There are also limits on what type of of job can be done. Details are here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/appendix-student
If they bring families are they eligible for British benefits from day 1 of arrival?
No. Students on visas have no recourse to public funds (as is the case with other types of UK visa) for the duration of their visa.
November 26, 2023
So do they have to pay for their and their families medical insurance (if theyāre not from an EHIC card nation and do they pay private school places or do we educate their children?] So does the amount the university takes in one hand, potentially the state pays out in school fees in the other if families move here together?
The foreign students I know are on scholarships and bursaries and donāt pay for their courses.
The Ā£1334pm/Ā£1023 will be just lodgings and food.
The UK student loan when it was brought in by Labourās Blair was meant to be a contribution of 25% to the full cost of the course not 100% of it. It was originally Ā£1000 pa, then Ā£3000, then Osborne struck English kids only with Ā£9500 but the government still paid the top up to each university. I think the public should be told how much top up is paid per English student to each university on top of the now Ā£9250 pa.
Iāve just found this quote from the IFS in 2019, so it will be a lot more now āThe equivalent figure for an engineering student is roughly Ā£27,000, while for a creative arts student it is around Ā£37,000. Despite having a low loan subsidy, medicine & dentistry is still one of the higher-cost degrees to government, at around Ā£45,000 per degree, due to large teaching grants.ā International fees arenāt that high now? So are British taxpayers subsidising international students? There could be significant savings made in Higher Education.
November 24, 2023
Good arguments John but they are irrelevant. Here’s what the 2019 Conservative manifesto on which you were elected says:
“There will be fewer lower-skilled migrants and overall numbers will come down”.
So the government should have reduced immigration as they promised to avoid looking like a bunch of liars. But they didn’t. So they are. And their next manifesto, whatever it says, is therefore worthless too.
I see even Starmer said the immigration figures were shockingly high. That’s how disgraceful the government is.
November 24, 2023
Currently UK unemployment stands at more than a 1.5 million to which you can add those working the ‘sick’ ticket.
Until every one of those is in employment, we need zero immigrants. Or does the Government believe that among the 1.5 + million there is no one capable of working in a large supermarket. Or driving a delivery van. Or of training to be a Nurse/Carer. Or working to repair our roads. Or any other tasks that immigrants (those that wish to work) are employed to do.
November 24, 2023
We need zero immigration until the country produces enough food to feed its population.
November 24, 2023
Spot On Dave
November 24, 2023
I read in The Express or The Mail that in London, young couples that need social housing because they are unable to afford private rental accommodation are finding it impossible because they are full with migrants. This is not fair, surely?
November 24, 2023
As far as I can make out that has been happening for years.
Much new building post war ( on fields in country towns) was probably due to indigenous people being forced out of London ( lured with psycho āNew Townsā) and then the same happened in other big cities. Our birth rate had already been cut by wars and 2.4 children propaganda. AND the ghastly NHS.
āThe Great Replacementā.
November 24, 2023
So we need immigrants to staff our care homes but we sacked care home workers who refused to be jabbed š¤·š¼āāļø
November 24, 2023
…and?
November 25, 2023
And? And those sacked care home workers should be compensated for losing their job, Mickey. For not taking an injection which was soon recognised as neither safe nor effective. Even Bill Gates said he was disappointed with it. The government should not have allowed staff exercising their right to bodily autonomy to be victimised like that .
November 25, 2023
but the benefits system kicked in, and tens of thousands of elderly were protected.
November 24, 2023
It isn’t just the financial costs of the immigration tsunami the Not-a-Conservative-Party has unleashed on us which matters. it’s the destruction of our green and pleasant land to house them and the impact it is having on our society, which no longer bears any resemblance to the England I grew up in during the 60s and 70s.
As Rees-Mogg said on GB News yesterday, the Not-a-Conservative-Party has failed to keep the promise it made in the last Manifesto to CONTROL and REDUCE immigration.
There are no excuses. The Party has deliberately betrayed the millions who voted for a real Brexit and to cut immigration. It has been “promising” to cut immigration since 2009 and every time it has deliberately done the precise opposite.
As far as I’m concerned I now have 700,000 new reasons to vote NOT to be CONNED by the Treacherous Tories ever again. I hope the Party is obliterated next year.
November 24, 2023
Yes, many do Donna. This was a deliberate act against what they stood be elected for. This not the first time. Cameron stated cut to thousands and went to EU on a crusade and came back with nothing but claimed otherwise. Osborne stated no one serious in private.
The dishonesty repeated several times not to make it a one off or mistake. Deliberate dishonesty to get votes nothing more.
November 24, 2023
Most Conservatives in government have proven to be constantly incompetent.
Those who seek a solution need to vote for Reform, or emigrate themselves to a nation that looks after its own citizens properly.
November 24, 2023
Exactly, no immigration has ever been cheap, because of infrastructure & living costs. Business may get cheaper Labour but at the taxpayers cost. Added to that years of ignoring the lack of integration. That has created ghettos & enclaves. Such as allowing multiple marriage & sharia law onto British soil. That is all self-destructing!
I just hope this may be a light bulb moment for our politicians to realise that a very large brake is needed. Supported by a legal framework to clear up the mess they have made since Blair!
November 24, 2023
Immigration plays catchup with no end in sight. For instance we invite doctors, they arrive with dependents. They in turn put more demand on the NHS, who then have to recruit more doctors. It can happen and does across all levels of the workforce. Immigration, the way incompetent government runs it is an aerosol of ever expanding foam.
The solution is available. Where there are professional and labour shortages we should train our own population as it currently is. We have 5 million unemployed and a civil service twice the size we need. Among that 5 million there are a small number who cannot contribute and the rest are either genetically idle or cannot be matched to the vacancies available. Look after the disabled, rigorously scrutinise benefits, and force the demand areas to train recruits.
Finally close the gate on immigration with few exceptions. Deal with illegal immigration in ways I have previously suggested.
November 24, 2023
All true and good but only half the problem.There seem to be very few incentives for the UK to invest in its human capital so that it can better stand on its own two feet. Why not adopt the sort of measures that exist in Austrlia. The first thing is that employers are required or encouraged to hire Australians first and only import if they can’t find someone in the domestic market. This serves also to inform the government fairly accurately what the real skill shortages are, enabling it to adjust quotas not only for overall numbers of immigrants but numbers in each skills category.
The second thing is is a scheme, the Skilling Australians (not Immigrants) Fund to encourage investment in training Australians in those skills that employers need rather than what universities, schools and various educational establishments like to teach and train. This scheme is partly funded by a whacking extra levy an employer must pay for a visa to import someone.
Australia’s GDP per capita is nearly 50% higher than the UK’s mainly because it invests in its own people first, training them in the skills it knows it needs and because it caps immigration.
November 24, 2023
Further to my comment about Australia having far more effective measures in place to encourage investment in its human capital, I suspect that David Lord Cameron of Remain, of whom an aide once said, “The EU runs through him like Brighton through a stick of Rock”, while berthed in the Lords away frlom scrutiny, will shortly be arranging for the UK to join the EU migrant quota scheme. Utterly disastrous.
November 24, 2023
For the unelected PM Sunak to recruit the unelected Cameron to carry on unaccountable foreign policy in the Remainer Lords has proved the last straw for many former Conservative voters.
November 24, 2023
M,
Project fear architect Cameron in Charge of EU Brexit policy!! What right minded person would even consider that reasonable? I note Treasury team full of remainers same for Cabinet. Why I do not see is any challenge against the extreme left wing pro EU takeover.
November 24, 2023
Yes, a squandered chance by an incompetent government to save our money and our culture and our countryside.
UK Reform Party for me.
November 24, 2023
+1
November 24, 2023
From 1950-1979 the UK built about 9.6 million houses. From 1970 to the end of 2022, the figure was 8.25 million. That’s an average of 320,000 per year down to just under 200,000. Imagine how many more houses there’d be (and how more affordable they’d be) if that extra 120,000 had been built for the last 42 years as there would be an additional 5 million housing units in the UK housing stock.
The biggest difference? Private housebuilding hasn’t changed that much over that time, the difference is the lack of social housing (which was sold off under Right to Buy and was not replaced).
That was and is a political choice.
November 24, 2023
Who the hell wants all that extra housing? I donāt. I want fewer people and fewer houses.
November 24, 2023
Perhaps the younger generation who are struggling to get on the ladder and stuck in rented accomodation?
November 24, 2023
Peter
At the current level of immigration we need to build one city the size of Sheffield every year.
November 24, 2023
I hear loud applause all over the country.
November 24, 2023
Peter, and how many of those houses and flats built after the war were pulled down not fit for use, thousands upon thousands had to be virtually rebuilt, tin houses, tin roof prefabs intended for a short spell not long-term housing, built as ghettos with hosts of social problems.
All those flats they had to pull down in Coventry, Glasgow, Stoke, Brentwood and on and on it goes.
November 24, 2023
The government controls the immigration numbers (not completely for it has shown dinghy arrivals are beyond the scope of its competence) so the huge increase is quite clearly government policy. It is just another way this rotten government attacks us (and many immigrants since they live here too).
The Braverman person was reported as saying these record figures were “a slap in the face to the British public who have voted to control and reduce migration at every opportunity”! If only we had not been burdened with a useless Home Secretary who exercised no control! Get this appalling person out of public life.
November 24, 2023
I think she was duped, strung out and lied to by Snake. Braverman was the only leadership contender wanting to rid UK of ECHR, hence she did not do well with Tory MPs.
November 24, 2023
Worse than that, is that the previous figures were heavily revised upwards by the ONS. One might suspect political interference (people read the original figures, few people read about the revisions).
It was around 150k upwards, from memory, so these figures are probably around the 730k mark in reality.
Also, the devil is in the detail. 1.2 million came to stay in the UK, with 508,000 leaving – what was the ethnicity of those in each direction? If the leavers are the indigenous population and the entrants are not… our culture is actually being diluted to the extent of around 1.7 million a year.
I’ve considered moving abroad, so I’m not surprised if people are feeling that this is no longer the country they knew and loved and are heading for foreign shores.
November 24, 2023
The irony is lost on you?
November 24, 2023
The logic is clearly lost on you.
You seem to be operating under a *false* assumption that I’d need to emigrate to one of the countries where the UK’s immigrants are coming from.
I could/would move somewhere that doesn’t have the same issues with immigration – and certainly not with immigration by peoples who are so culturally dissimilar. Good examples of suitable places might be NZ, Canada, Aus.
Heck, even Ukraine if they get this war sorted out satisfactorily! That will be a society driving forward if given a chance.
November 25, 2023
I wouldn’t consider Ukraine has anything in common with the society in which I grew up. Political opposition parties all banned, three of their leaders in jail. Corruption endemic. Plus the Dila digital ID app, called the ‘State in a smartphone’, allowing ‘e-governance’ of all citizens. No thank you.
November 25, 2023
Not to mention elections cancelled.
November 24, 2023
The fiscal costs of mass immigration are not simply those of increased housing, schools, roads, health services and hospitals, water supplies, and waste management but also to our police, judiciary, prisons and security services.
November 24, 2023
Make no mistake mass immigration, together with Net Zero is a deliberate policy held by a majority in our current Parliament, civil service, institutions, judiciary and large corporates to bring about the UNās goal of equity, diversity and inclusion to the UK
Net Zero is designed to impoverish the UK and bring about equity (equal standard of living outcome) with the third world. Diversity is designed to replace meritocracy with tribalism to cause social instability and mass immigration to make the UK look like the third world. Inclusion means no-one may be offended and hence freedom of thought and speech will be terminated.
November 24, 2023
“The Conservative Party is dead to me now as it is to millions of its formerly loyal supporters. Out of the ashes at the cremation we pray there will come a party which cares about the British people.”
Allison Pearson writing in the Telegraph today. I’m with her.
November 24, 2023
Terrible problem, simple answer remove all those from Parliament that refuse to act as the UKās sole Legislators.
The UK is supposed to be a Democracy, it needs to act like one. Laws rules and regulation pertaining to the internal operation of the UK in a Democracy can only be created, amended and repealed by its legislators ā its MPās. To date the UK ās Parliament has shown itself to be just a puppet government still fighting to remain under the control of the unelected and unaccountable elsewhere. It is not just ECHR, its also UK Tax- VAT, the power to govern the UK is not with the UK People, therefore it is not a Democracy ā there fore paying for this Parliament is a fraud
November 24, 2023
People can disagree on the details but big picture it is obvious the government hasnāt a clue. Its lost control reduced to empty promises that no one believes.
When you have two people at the top as wet and weak as Sunak and Dowden you have no chance.
November 24, 2023
In the name of sanity why bring all these people in and at the same time impose berserk booking/appointment systems on the country.
All these folk pouring into a wrecked economy, closed roads, proliferation of digital systems.
And NONE OF IT WORKS.
Chaos.
November 24, 2023
Agree
November 24, 2023
ā¦.no wonder not one TV ad this year mentions Jesus or the Christmas nativity
November 25, 2023
who he?
November 24, 2023
My comments/replies seem to be disappearing along with one of Javelinās which JR replied to.
This overcrowded country is being run with vending machinesā¦that DONāT WORK!
Why was it ever a PC on every desk?
They just create more tasks, break down and cost money.
November 24, 2023
Oh sorryā¦
Lemmingās comment seemed to disappear.
November 24, 2023
Leftie/liberal academics have been trying to tell us for years that immigrants contribute more than they take out of society. This has been always been a very obvious and blatant lie and we now have a situation where the unsustainable numbers currently being allowed in require the entire infrastructure of a new Birmingham to be built every year.
One solution could be to increase the salary employers are required to pay migrants they want to bring in, as has been proposed, but the employer should also have to pay an infrastructure contribution of, say, Ā£25-50,000 a year per employee for the first five years of employment. The money would have to be paid every year up front and would not be refundable. It could be allowable for corporation tax relief, though. The figure would be doubled if dependents are to be brought in.
That would ensure only highly skilled and very well paid people would be recruited and the employer’s activity would not be a burden on the taxpayer. Separate arrangements would have to be made for the NHS but it is morally indefensible for the NHS to bribe desperately needed doctors and nurses to leave the third world and come to the UK.
That would cut the numbers at a stroke
Reply As I show that sum would be below likely average cost to taxpayers.
November 24, 2023
I agree, that it would not cover all the costs but a lot of them are one-off infrastructure costs rather than costs that occur every year, so Ā£50,000 a year over the first five years would cover a great deal of it.
BUT, most important, it would also drastically cut back the number of employer-sponsored visas actually being issued.
November 24, 2023
The Public Charge Point Regulations 2023 will come into force today, November 24, and will aim to make electric car charging easier for motorists ā¦.but it doesnāt make any provision for paying by cash, therefore locking out the poorest in society and those that donāt have bank accounts (another law for the elites)
November 24, 2023
how do the poorest afford to buy an EV? Offer a carrier bag of accumulated coins in the showroom ?
November 24, 2023
Being compliant with the ECHR and other international influences has got us nowhere . Apart from the costs that we are all aware of and the restrictions that become imposed on every citizen , I am not convinced that we can and will succeed from immigration – be it selective or illegal . We are soft soapers and we must change our approach drastically ; Braverman was on the right course and it’s a pity that her influence is now on the sidelines . Sunak has lost his way on this issue – one of his key objectives ; voters will not be able to trust him any longer .
November 24, 2023
Today’s article is a sad comment on 13 years of Conservative-led Government. The UK immigration policy is pure madness, and a serious government would have got it under control years ago. For me, a lifelong conservative voter, Sunak as PM tested my loyalty to the limit. The appointment of the Liberal / Remainer, Cameron as Foreign Secretary, has broken it. I won’t vote Labour, but I might vote Reform or just not vote.
If you take your voters for granted and do everything to annoy them on Taxation, Immigration, Net Zero, Anti car policies, Woke nonsense, do nothing about Education in schools and Universities being left wing, and constantly talk about what you are going to do, but then don’t do it, don’t be surprised that loyal conservative voters have had enough!
November 24, 2023
hear hear
November 24, 2023
As a serious question since these are legal immigrant figures why do we have estimates for so long and then revised estimates? Surely the approval process should lead to a precise figure??
November 24, 2023
We could ask the OBR to take over the challenge.
November 24, 2023
I understand student immigrants can bring family members – these are referred to as ‘dependents’. Why are they referred to as dependents? True tudents can not have full time jobs. Clearly their families are not dependent on their students family members – they are dependent on us.
There is no limit to the way the original people of this country are betrayed daily by this deceitful Conservative government. It daily tries to fool us and lie to us.
November 24, 2023
“There is a growing danger we cannot offer enough decent housing and public services for our new arrivals. ”
There is a growing realization that the state has completely broken down, and cannot offer housing of any kind or public services of any standard – let alone decent – to those who have lived here and paid into the system for a lifetime.
November 24, 2023
If I had got my tax accounts wrong by over 20% as the immigration figures were, I suspect the Inland Revenue would quite reasonably think I was either dishonest or not keeping proper records. It seems the government/civil service are not keeping proper immigration records. It seems not only immigration is out of control but even also the records concerning immigration are out of control. Therefore the true figures could be almost anything and the net figure of 745,000 is probably a considerable underestimate.
November 24, 2023
Nobody EVER OFFERED me decent housing. I bought a cold flat and installed central heating myself. I bought a run down cottage and damp-proofed it, timber proofed it, laid new floors, extended it, rewired it, replumbed it (well, plumbed it – it had no inside loo or bathroom and a kitchen in a lean-to at the back comprising a rank Belfast sink. Etc. Etc.) Every house I have owned has been made ādecentā by the sweat of my brow.
November 24, 2023
Dear Mr. Redwood,
If Ā£250,000 is a fair assessment of the capital costs of providing new homes and public service provision, along with the early running costs borne by the state then, please correct me if I’m wrong, one would need to multiply that by the net number of migrants entering the UK last year, i.e. 692,000 to give a cost to the UK of Ā£173,000,000,000 or Ā£173 billion for just one year’s influx. That is more than the NHS budget for 2023.
Reply It would be costly to build a couple of cities capable of housing and servicing 700,000 people and providing them with free healthcare, education etc.
November 24, 2023
Dear Mr. Redwood,
Sorry, I was not trying to say that Ā£250,000 is too high an estimate or too low for that matter. I was trying to emphasize the astronomical cost to the nation of dealing with this huge number of people in a single year let alone each and every year.
November 24, 2023
Dear Mr. Redwood,
Rishi Sunak says net migration to the UK is ātoo highā and “not sustainable” after official figures revealed a new record peak. “It is good to see that the ONS yesterday did say that the levels of migration are now slowing – in their words – which is a welcome step. But weāve got more to go.ā
So, too high, unsustainable, a new record peak but slowing at the same time and we’ve got more to go!
Vote Conservative! The party of mass legal migration and mass illegal migration.
November 24, 2023
Hi sir John
Heard it all before, ask Daved Cameron,
He broke his promise Sunak broke his promise,
can’t blame the EU for bad UK
government anymore the day of passing the buck has gone
it’s not the invited migrants
it’s the illegal one’s that’s upset most people because they are better off for breaking the law by entering the UK illegally
Better off than thousand of people working.
Thanks
November 24, 2023
Dear Mr. Redwood,
What I find unusual about 700,000 people arriving in the UK in a single year is the lack of any significant reaction from both left and right of the political spectrum. Where is the outrage? Where is the fury at these shocking figures and the impact they will have on our country? Have we got so accustomed to the repeated failures of our ruling class that we are prepared to accept anything? Politicians themselves seem to have given up the fight, resigned as most of them are to toeing the party line.
Given their past track record, why would anyone think Labour will turn the country round? Why would anyone vote Conservative again after this migration horror story? Who are we meant to vote for? Who are we to believe?
There has been a trend lately of governments giving their policies legal force, e.g. net zero. Perhaps, in future we should insist that a party’s manifesto pledges should also be enforceable in law.
It’s a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world…
November 25, 2023
1,170,000 people arrived in the UK in a single year, but 500,000 gave up on UK and left.
November 24, 2023
If every illegal boat crossing immigrant is now deemed a criminal, why arenāt they locked up rather then housed in hotels with freedom to roam?
November 26, 2023
Still awaiting moderation! Why the delay?
November 28, 2023
Brilliant! You’ve deleted my original post and let through the one sentence follow up query!