My Intervention on the Post Office Horizon Ministerial Statement

John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con):

Will the Minister take UK Government Investments out of its role of controlling and supervising the Post Office? It has allowed these gross injustices to go on for too long, allowed the Post Office senior managers to rack up huge losses of Ā£1,391 million to last March, with more to come this year, and given the executives bonuses for losing us that much money. It has left the Government with a great financial black hole. Would it not be better to change the Post Office management, to have it report directly to the Minister, and to make its No. 1 task giving justice to the sub-postmasters?

Kevin Hollinrake:

I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. He and I have had serious conversations about the future of the Post Office, which I am keen to continue to engage on. The current UKGI representative who sits on the Post Office board is Lorna Gratton, for whom I have a great deal of time and respect. Clearly it is important that the inquiry does its work to determine who did what in the past. As we look to the future, there are different opinions on how the Post Office should be governed. I am happy to keep those discussions ongoing with my right hon. Friend.

48 Comments

  1. Lifelogic
    February 28, 2024

    Well said JR but things will surely now be decided by Labour – given that Sunak is still heading for the cliff with his broken compass on tax, the size of government, vast immigration levels, net zero, Lee Anderson, Andrew Bridgen, Covid vaccine safety, over regulation, the NHS, the economy, housing, his currency trashing, mad energy policiesā€¦has he got anything right?

    Google ā€œDr Dean Patterson Letterā€ for the large post vaccine heart and other damage issues in Guernsey. If the same % in the UK then hundreds of thousands seriously injured in the UK.

    Well said Mogg on Shamima Begum.

    1. Peter
      February 28, 2024

      LL,

      So nothing to report on UKGI membersā€™ academic backgrounds, whether they are Oxbridge PPE folk etc.

      You are slipping from your usual high standards.

      1. Lifelogic
        February 28, 2024

        No but I did hear some of the usual drivel from Chris Stark
        Chief Executive at the Climate Change Committee on the Today Programme today.

        Chris Stark has been Chief Executive of the Climate Change Committee since April 2018. His previous role was Director of Energy and Climate Change in the Scottish Government, leading the development of Scotlandā€™s approach to emissions reduction and the accompanying energy system transition.

        He read law and finance Glasgow – so probably v. little science, electrical or energy engineering knowledge beyond age 16. So totally unsuitable other than as a deluded PR spin doctor.

        The CCC estimates of the cost of net zero are at least 1/5 of the reality so not too good at finance either . Indeed NetZero is not even possible really.

        To be fair to him he is trying to work toward the moronic agenda set by Milibandā€™s Climate Change Lunacy which nearly every MP voted for (not JR or Peter Lilley, Ann Widecombeā€¦.) and Mayā€™s moronic Net Zero likewise nodded through by the daft & scientifically ignorant MPs. An agenda that Sunak (PPE) is moronically sticking to. Even claiming it will be a good investment so deluded is he.

        1. Hope
          February 28, 2024

          JR,
          The state pension provides about Ā£700 per month after working and paying taxes all your life, how much do illegal boat people cost each month? How much do low paid legal immigrants costs us each month? Then when you provide the figure you will see the insanity of your party and govt bearing in mind it is all borrowed.

          Yet your stupid party has given Ā£7 billion to Ukraine for a war that it cannot possibly win and is preparing through propaganda that the ordinary citizen might have to fight against Putin! No, we should not be involved at all.

          Why is Ed Davey and all those ministers in charge of the post office not before a court? Misconduct in public office should apply to MPs and ministers. There should be some sanction so they take responsibility and ensure their decisions matter.

  2. Peter
    February 28, 2024

    A non-committed reply at best, but probably a ā€˜Noā€™ in reality.

    Ministers should be responsible for everything they overlook. Nothing should be farmed out to a committee or a quango. Keep the reporting lines simple.

  3. Lifelogic
    February 28, 2024

    Russell Group universities have told staff and students that saying ā€œthe most qualified person should get the jobā€ is now a ā€œmicroaggressionā€ it seems.

    Sure who wants well qualified pilots, surgeons, doctors, nurses, engineers, builders, roofersā€¦ but it should not be ā€œmost qualifiedā€ but most able and suitable to do the job. Like picking a football team. Many people have loads of formal qualification but zero common sense or any ability to do the job. Lots of formal university types of qualifications is often a sign of someone with enough money to afford to be a perpetual student and someone who prefers academia & studying to actually doing the job. Those who can do, those who canā€™t often teach or become academics or perpetual students I often find.

    1. a-tracy
      February 28, 2024

      “Those who can do, those who canā€™t often teach”

      Some posters speculate Lifelogic that you are Sir John’s alter ego. When I read nonsense like this, I know for sure you are not.

      1. Peter
        February 28, 2024

        AT

        LL has probably been reading too much George Bernard Shaw.

        I had not heard of the alter ego speculation.

      2. Lifelogic
        February 28, 2024

        No just a humble northern state grammar school – Cambridge, Maths, Physics chap, later Manchester (Solid State Physics, Electronics) Aircraft Engineering now businessman and living overseas – as far too much tax to pay should I return to the UK (or too much time and money spent with tax lawyers).

        Have never even met JR but he does do very well for a chap with a mere history degree from Oxford.

        A shame the Party does not take his wise advice would have saved Ā£trillions over the years he has been an MP.

        Reply I have spent my adult life studying economies and business. My more recent qualification was the CISI investment one, making me a Chartered fellow.

        1. a-tracy
          February 29, 2024

          Did you not have fantastic teachers at your humble northern grammar school who helped you achieve all the qualifications you hold dear?

          1. Lifelogic
            February 29, 2024

            Well the head Maths and Physics chaps were OK but not the best it was a smallish Grammar about 450 students all male. At Cambridge many students like the top Wranglers were rather on a different planet people like Jacob_Bronowski. with his Ascent of man series.

            The Chemistry teacher was best. They did at least have maths, chemisty and physics degrees unlike many rather dire science teachers nowadays. They do not pay enough for most decent science people.

      3. hefner
        February 28, 2024

        a-tracy, +1, as if ā€˜qualificationsā€™ equals diplomas. The Cambridge Dictionary has it as ā€˜an ability, characteristic, or experience that makes one suitable for a particular job or activityā€™.

    2. Ian B
      February 28, 2024

      @Lifelogic – it’s called discrimination (DIE) diversity, inclusion, equalities. It can mean nothing else

    3. Mickey Taking
      February 29, 2024

      So much for Russell Group respect, it just crashed to earth in flames…dare I tell my grandsons?

  4. Richard1
    February 28, 2024

    Me Bates, made famous by the TV drama, has come up with the excellent suggestion of selling off the post to Amazon for Ā£1 (assuming Amazon can be refused all the various indemnities and liability coverage which theyā€™d be likely to ask for in addition). This would be a great way of stopping the losses to taxpayers and ensuring a likely much better service.

    On a related topic itā€™s rumoured Conservative rebels think we should ā€˜give Ā£500 to everyoneā€™ (with a new leader) in order to win the election. I doubt the electorate in large enough numbers will be dumb enough to fall for this. but distributing shares in the BBC, as previously suggested by our host (and by me) would be an excellent idea. And a big vote winner.

    1. Peter Wood
      February 28, 2024

      Give Ā£500 to everyone!? Well, I wouldn’t be surprised with this government. Listening today, the Chancellor has two very big problems that might not have hit his famous ‘projections’. First, bailing out the bankrupt local authorities, that appear to be bungling their own finances and going bust in droves, and Second, the now reported substantial sales in Gilts by both Treasury, to fund the budget deficit, AND the BoE to clear the backlog of ‘enforced purchases’ of gilts over Lockdown. When there’s too much of something, we all know what happens….

      1. Mickey Taking
        February 29, 2024

        who will be bought for peanuts? answer – Monkeys.

    2. Sir Joe Soap
      February 28, 2024

      For goodness sake! Bribes aren’t the answer to 14 years of incompetence. You really want this lot in for another 5 years?

    3. Peter
      February 28, 2024

      R1,

      I have now watched the TV programme on catch up, no TV licence required.

      It is appalling that it still drags on. The postmasters have still not been fully compensated. Nobody from the Post Office board has been put on trial. There is no sign of an end to it all.

      Ed Davey thought it was finally safe enough to sneak back and make a belated apology though.

      1. Lifelogic
        February 28, 2024

        Still no resignation for this leader of the 4th largest Party? Let us hope the LibDims continue to lose all their deposits. They are after all wrong on almost every single issue. Alas the Tory benches and Cabinet is stuffed with dire LibDims too.

        1. Ian B
          February 28, 2024

          @Lifelogic – +1 to many protecting their own,

    4. Lifelogic
      February 28, 2024

      What is a share in the BBC worth. It produces no profit, few things worth watching and costs each household circa Ā£150 in the licence poll tax. Just abolish the tax to give people a Ā£150 saving. Have fair competition between the BBC and other providers. Do the same for schools, the NHS, housing, dentistry, banking, energy with subsidies only for the few that really do need them.

      But Sunak loves rigged markets especially the Covid (net harm) vaccines ones it seems, that he keeps misinforming the us and MPs are incontrovertibly safe. When he surely must by now know the truth?

    5. Lifelogic
      February 28, 2024

      Ā£500 well their vast tax increases, net zero rip off energy policies, the lockdowns, net harm vaccines and damage to the economy for 14 years must have cost each household well over Ā£1000 a year for 14 years.

    6. a-tracy
      February 28, 2024

      The post part is already privately owned.

      What benefits would the loss-making post office network give to Amazon? Would they want it with all the problems that would ensue with the unions?

    7. IanT
      February 28, 2024

      Do a ‘SID’ on the Beeb and float it off as a private company, phasing out the mandatory TV license as part of the process. I wouldn’t buy their shares but I’m sure all those vocal supporters of it would. Then they could put their own money where their mouth is…and not mine.

      1. a-tracy
        February 29, 2024

        Perhaps Gary Lineker and the other big names https://www.prolificnorth.co.uk/news/bbc-presenter-salaries-2022-23-this-years-top-earners/ could just buy it outright.

    8. Ian B
      February 28, 2024

      @Richard1 Its easy to blackmail people with their own money – just watch what happens in the budget .
      What has eluded them and the reason for the desperate need to ‘bribe’ is the lack of acumen/intelligence to manage expenditure.

  5. agricola
    February 28, 2024

    Clearly the PO management with the collusion of Fugitsu under the blanket of UKGI presided over criminal activity to the detriment of many sub postmasters. Action one, repay all the money stolen from the SPs. Second, assess independantly the damage this criminality caused to SPs and their families and pay extensive compensation. Three, apportion the level of blame that falls on Fujitsu and demand financial redress from them. Four, prosecute all individuals who played a part in this criminal activity.
    If she is genuinely competent, save Lorna Gratton for the future management of the PO. Pressure current enquiries and criminal investigations to conclude their work speedily ,accurately, and efficiently. I want to smell the cut long grass.

  6. David Andrews
    February 28, 2024

    A pathetic non answer. Obviously the UKGI representatives on the Board of the Post Office have failed if they have allowed it to fall into
    the abysmal state of affairs on view today. Did they all get gongs for “public service”?

  7. Mike Wilson
    February 28, 2024

    If I may summarise:

    Will the Minister take UK Government Investments out of its role of controlling and supervising the Post Office?

    ā€˜No! They have done a good job and the excellent boss deserves a big bonus.ā€™

  8. James1
    February 28, 2024

    Another case where the present government is simply prepared to do nothing. ” I am happy to keep those discussions ongoing with my right hon. Friend.” In other words, ‘into the long grass with it’. Yet another reason the conservative party is highly likely to be out of office later this year, and deservedly so.

  9. The Prangwizard
    February 28, 2024

    The computer says NO.

  10. Javelin
    February 28, 2024

    The PO appears to be a subsidised service necessary to deliver legal documents.

    I feel it may go the same way as milkmen.

  11. Ian B
    February 28, 2024

    Sir John
    The all around problem with this Conservative Governments ‘the big give away’ of our money, they pay Kevin Hollinrake MP to be responsible for just as you propose. Sir Ed Davey had that post when the situation kicked off and he did nothing.
    This Conservative Government as far as us voters are concerned has been empowered and paid to manage all spending that takes place on our behalf. So in a nutshell this Conservative Government is in neglect of the only duty they have.
    They also refuse the UK Parliament/HoC its duty in being the UK’s legislators. Everything else is just background noise electioneering, with sound-bites and virtue signals.
    We need our elected representatives just to step up and do their duty, then maybe, just maybe, the whole country can get behind them and contribute. As it is if the guys employed at the top have a total disregard for their job is it any wonder no one else can be bothered?

  12. a-tracy
    February 28, 2024

    Aren’t the bonus’ paid on set criteria in the public sector? If you work in the SME private sector and the company doesn’t meet its primary goals you wouldn’t get a bonus?

  13. Ukretired123
    February 28, 2024

    Urgent reforms are needed in so many areas where we thought there was accountability but alas the old saying “The Private Sector is controlled by the government but the Public Sector is where there is no control” applies too often.

  14. Bloke
    February 28, 2024

    Too many in government continue dithering in uncertainty, unable to make timely decisions for the speediest and best outcomes. A proper PM would lead the way forward to better without all the chaos, bungle and waste. Replacing him with a sensible operator would solve many of the currents ills and prevent others from even starting. Leaving him to fester creates increased mess to remedy later at even more expense.

    1. Ian B
      February 28, 2024

      @Bloke – a property PM, agreed

  15. Ian B
    February 28, 2024

    Sir John
    Another concern is the distortion of our Laws as they now stand.
    People locked up with no actual proof that an event took place! It would appear no money ever went missing, the Post Office was able to gain income (fining) by being the accuser as they didnā€™t have to show proof. That can never be right. The Post Office stole from its staff for that there is no doubt ā€“ so what will happen to them?
    On the same track, once it is proven that one person is shown to be innocent through the accusers unfounded claims everyone subject to the same accusations to same, is in a civilized society innocent. How can the Law even call it evidence? In a country with a real policy of law and order this would have been cleared up years ago ā€“ it doesnā€™t need a Parliamentary Law to say false accusations are false accusations. So the Conservative Government is prevaricating once more.
    It brings into question how many other people have been made guilty just because the accuser says so. It brings into question our Law makers, our Courts the whole legal system.
    This conservative Government needs to start looking at the bigger picture, it is not their position to play maliciously with people lives. They are devaluing civilized society

    1. Mike Wilson
      February 28, 2024

      I donā€™t know why no one else is mentioning that anyone involved in prosecuting these poor people knowing that the system was faulty need to be prosecuted for Perverting the Course of Justice. They prosecuted without any evidence – they never found the money that had allegedly been stolen – and people were sent to prison. The people responsible for doing this MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH IT. Some of them must be prosecuted.

      1. Ian B
        February 28, 2024

        @Mike Wilson – even worse, the law was changed so that meant the PO didn’t even need to show money was actually missing, they as the prosecution just had to say it was missing. The change in the Law, moved the goal posts.

  16. Derek
    February 28, 2024

    So again, it’s blah, blah, talk and nowt done to change the status quo.
    Kicking the can down the road appears to be the 21st Century MO when government is pretending to act FOR its electorate. No wonder they are doomed.
    When are we going to have a leadership that gets things done without endless meetings and talks about talks? Talks procrastinate, only firm action brings about change.
    No business could remain solvent under such pathetic hesitancy. So why doesn’t the entire public sector adopt their principles and move ahead?
    Or would that also be deemed a “loss of face”. It’s time for these failing Leaders to either grow up and/or grow some.

  17. hefner
    February 28, 2024

    Thames Water is said to be lobbying for a 40% increase on its household tariffs.
    Over the last 30 years it has accumulated Ā£14.7 bn of debt while paying Ā£7.2 bn in dividends.
    Is that not a subject worth an incisive comment from a Thames Valley MP, furthermore one who had been so keen on water privatisation in 1989?

  18. hefner
    February 28, 2024

    Really worth reading: newstatesman.com 31/01/2024 ā€˜The rotten state: How corruption and chumocracy are pulling Britain apartā€™.

    1. Ukretired123
      February 28, 2024

      @Hefner
      “The rotten state” article shines a light into the old boys network and scale of waste endemic in our country. Sadly the greater the scale the more ordinary folk cannot see it but suspect it’s going on as basic services are falling apart.
      Whilst immigration is a tangible cause of public services problems, the invisible yet exponential increase in government debt must be due to waste, incompetence and corruption, but is hidden.

    2. Peter
      February 28, 2024

      The chumocracy is evidenced by David Gauke. He holds forth in both ā€˜The New Statesmanā€™ and ā€˜Conservative Homeā€™ despite being a Tory reject and a failure at the last general election.

      You would think he would be like green kryptonite to genuine conservatives, but he is given a platform there anyway. Mind you, from the comments you can see that ā€˜Conservative Homeā€™ is just for Blue Liberal Democrats now.

  19. Bill B.
    February 28, 2024

    I see Scott Benton supported Brexit. Who would’ve guessed?

    1. a-tracy
      February 29, 2024

      Why Bill, do you think he’s been picked off like all the other Brexiteers unless they conform to conjoining the UK by the backdoor?

Comments are closed.