The car industry has been damaged by government bad rules, fines and taxes on new car sales. The industry itself has gone along with the idea that people should be forced to buy battery cars they do not want, and blocked from buying petrol and diesel cars they prefer. Now they want government to bail them out with tax cuts and subsidies on the electric product.
The idea that more U.K. battery cars helps save the planet is crazy. Were I to buy a new battery car today the U.K. would need to burn more gas in a power station for me to recharge it. World CO 2 output goes up as a lot of CO 2 is created to make the raw materials , the battery and the rest of the vehicle.
So now the industry wants 5% VAT on recharges instead of standard 20%. It wants most of the VAT taken off a new battery car purchase. It wants battery cars to escape higher rate Vehicle Excise Duty. All this is on top of battery cars avoiding fuel duty. All this is unaffordable if battery car sales expand as a result.
Instead of wanting freebies from freebie loving Ministers the industry should campaign for an end to the savage fines on selling too many petrol cars and too few battery cars. Let consumers decide what they want. The government is killing the U.K. car industry with this mad policy.
PS All the time we had a Conservative government I posted plenty of criticisms of them. Now we have a Labour government I regard them as responsible and will not be posting criticisms of Conservatives for policies Labour can change now they have such a big majority.
October 5, 2024
The labour policies on energy, cars, net zero… are un-scientific, unworkable, anti-growth and totally insane. Starmer still thinks renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels as he stated yesterday. They are not after full consideration of intermittency costs they need market rigging and subsidies. The whole agenda of heat-pumps, EVs, public transport, grid expansion, smart meters, walking, cycling…all pushed by market rigging and subsidies is moronic. The ideological drive to net zero for 2050 is total insanity.
In short, a bit more CO2 is a net good anyway and, even if CO2 were causing a climate emergency, the measures being pushed with subsidies and market rigging do not even lower CO2 to any significant degree. EV cars actually increase CO2.
The problems with battery only cars are limited range, slow refilling, they are far more expensive, have far more depreciation, cost more to insure, can catch fire and cannot then be put out, you need somewhere to park and charge them not too close to the house pref., heavier so more tyre and road wear, more easily written off in crashes, heaver to more damage to other cars
New EVs require loads of fossil fuels to build them and their short lived battery) keeping your old car causes far less CO2 and is far cheaper and far more flexible and save CO2 if that (wrongly) concerns you.
We are ruled by Net Zero PPE graduates and similar, they are either deluded moron religious zealots or crooks on the make – I as a Math/Physicist/electronic Engineer and now businessman can see no other rational explanations.
Starkey rightly suggests that the new Tory leader should threaten that (if) they ever gain power again the profits of these subsidy farming crony industries should have the proceeds of these immoral or even illegal activity confiscated.
October 5, 2024
Battery cars (new) will typically will cost you between £1 and £4 a mile in financing costs and depreciation and are hugely less flexible and convenient. On top of this they are less practical, cost more to insure, cause more tyre and road wear. Note EV also push up everyone’s insurance costs not just EV insurance costs.
My three old petrol and diesel cars cost me more like 30-40 a mile all in and about half of this is fuel taxation this not paid by EVs. My old cars also cause less CO2 per mile than building new EVs so why do it PPE Ed?
October 5, 2024
30-40p a mile!
October 5, 2024
LL,
Were Conservatives to also start promising to confiscate profits even fewer manufacturers would bother to operate in the UK.
October 5, 2024
We’re already feeling the effects of the insane fining of dealers. I normally swap my car every 3 years but as pure petrol are getting difficult to find I’m having to order my preferred model 6 months in advance. The entry level models are no longer sold so I’m forced to buy a top of the range with more gizmos than I could possibly need. The smaller, cheaper models are vanishing except for Chinese built. Our motor industry will be crucified.
October 5, 2024
At the moment we are Importing 24.2% of our electricity. Solar is producing 0.68gw from over 10gw installed and winter is around the corner. As we import much of our LNG from Qatar we can expect a sharp increase in cost now the region is at war. Meanwhile we sit on vast quantities of oil, coal and gas.
£22 Billion for carbon capture which if successful will catch 8000 tons annually whilst China is adding double that amount annually. Insane.
October 5, 2024
With the labour net-zero plan to only generate 100% renewable by 2030, I envisage that we’ll be importing via europe interconnector 40-50% of our energy …..every day a little be closer to the EU
October 5, 2024
At last we can see where Reeves £22bn. ‘black hole’ is.
Its the carbon encrusted orifice from which no return can be expected !
October 5, 2024
+1
October 5, 2024
Well they did that for Landlords with idiot Osborne stopping interest deductions and no indexation of capital gains thus taxes on “profits” you have not even made. Theft in short.
October 5, 2024
Lifelogic,
‘ We are ruled by Net Zero PPE graduates and similar, they are either deluded moron religious zealots or crooks on the make – I as a Math/Physicist/electronic Engineer and now businessman can see no other rational explanations’.
You are clearly a modern day version of Plato’s ‘Golden Souls’ and should be running things.
I hesitate to call you a ‘Philosopher King’ as the first part is a major feature of your dreaded PPE.
October 5, 2024
Isn’t this sort of set up called a Klep….oh sorry….Corporatocracy.
No care whatever for the consumer be they chickens, cats or humans.
Absolutely no worry about broken, exploded, expired or disappointing goods.
And no caring salesperson who can be contacted.
I am SO disappointed that post imprisonment there has not been a plethora of small local businesses springing up but I guess the climate is scarcely favourable.
Buy a bike or an electric car…two ways to comply.
They have been so clever and we have been straighjacketed.
October 5, 2024
It is not the British Car Industry that is wrong about EVs, it is succesive UK governments. The only British car maker that exists is Morgan Cars. The rest can up sticks and depart faster than they came, and will do, if subjected to the stream of ignorant nonesense that emmenates from politicians. The market is speaking as we write, and it does not want EVs for all the well explained reasons. Price, range, recharge time, battery life, and the growing realisation that from concept to completion of life they are not as environmentally clean as we have been led to believe. It is strategically dumb to bet on one horse, effectively controlled by an unfriendly alien power, China.
Even worse, batteries are stategically under the control of China. Bad government move to expose the UK to that. Yet another Chagos moment.
To cap it all, our electrical generating and distribution network is totally incapable of accommodating a 100% switch to EVs.
Given time and encouragement, our largely japanese and indian based car industry, is more than capable of improving the emmissions of the IC engine. They are doing it for home markets in Japan at least. Coupled with a more intelligent approach to electricity production, SMRs for constant supply, and windmills for hydrogen production, we could achieve the cleaner environment that people would accept and healthwise benefit from. However as long as you allow ignorant politicians to head such a project led by red zealot Rasputin, you are betting on assured failure, at great expense to every one of us.
October 5, 2024
Indeed, but wind energy to hydrogen to compression, storage and transmission of hydrogen and back to heat, motion or electrical energy is vastly energy wasteful and hugely expensive compared to a pile of coal or a store of methane gas. Outside a few specialist areas forget it.
October 5, 2024
One thing that nearly always gets huge cheers on programmes like Question Time is a call for “better insulation of homes”. Even this rarely is cost and energy effective for older buildings. Anyway with the government policy of rip off energy by government religion & design (circa 3 times the US prices) many poorer people will not be able to afford to heat the whole house be it insulated or not. The solution is to insulate the people and warm only one room given the mad government policies that pertain.
Many (indeed most: insulation projects on existing UK houses have capital costs such that the interest alone is more than any saving in energy so they never pay for themselves. This other than for a few basics like draft proofing and hot water tank insulation. Even the draft proofing often causes damp and mold issues.
October 5, 2024
Thermals, jumpers, hot water bottles, electric blankets, the government are taking us back to the 60s and 70s when I remember we had one warm room with an open coal or wood fire, and the TV three channels and a back boiler for tepid shared bath water. Driven to this by the deluded CO2 devil gas religion or mainly vested interests corruption.
See the excellent Prof. WIlliam Happer videos to put you right on this deluded religious lunacy.
October 5, 2024
Heat-pumps are idea that rarely make any sense economic or environmental with current tech. Yes you might get 2.5 units of heat for one of electricity but electricity costs 3 to 4 times as much as gas, wood or coal. Plus far more expensive to fit & maintain, needs larger rads to get a good CoP, Need to be left on when away as so slow to heat up. There there is the grid issue. Most of the energy is needed in the few very cold winter weeks so the grid might well need to be circa 10 time as large if we all switched to heat pumps. Please we do not have any spare low CO2 electricity anyway.
Bonkers, bonkers, bonkers do the government and energy departments not have any half decent engineers to point out the insanity of their agendas?
October 5, 2024
“All the time we had a Conservative government I posted plenty of criticisms of them. Now we have a Labour government I regard them as responsible and will not be posting criticisms of Conservatives for policies Labour can change now they have such a big majority.”
Current Conservative MPs do not seem to be voicing much criticism. Many of them may be of the same opinion as Labour.
Perhaps they are too embarrassed to say much?
Perhaps they are hoping buyers’ remorse will be enough to gain them power at the next election ?
October 5, 2024
True Net Zero May and Hammond elevated to the Lords for their failures and contempt for voters. All four contenders for the Tory Leadership are believers in the entirely bogus CO2 devil gas, climate emergency, Net Zero religion (or the they are lying perhaps for just political reasons?).
Non has even pointed out that Sunak is clearly not remotely telling the truth when he tells the house that “the Covid Vaccines were unequivocally safe” he surely knows they were not the evidence of overwhelming and worldwide it cannot be hidden) or that these vaccines and the lock downs did huge net harms to health, society. education and the economy. Or that most people did not even need these vaccines even had they been remotely safe and effective – they were not.
October 5, 2024
And still the NHS is rolling out boosters of this dangerous so called COVID vaccine that doesn’t even work. I’m sick of getting reminders from my doctor. I’m so sceptical of the medical profession now that I’m in fear of even getting the flu vaccine as I’m not sure what they are putting in it. What a step backwards.
October 5, 2024
See the excellent film “First Do No Pharm” links and discussion on recent Dr John Cambell videos. The problem is big Pharma often/usually do not get rich by curing people but by keeping them or even making them ill and giving them drugs and vaccines for life. They also often fund (or indirectly control) the “independent” regulators like the MHRA here and similar in the USA and governments.
Van Tam now at Moderna, Patrick Vallance now Baron Vallance of Balham now Minister of State for Science, Research and Innovation. Alas he is far from a sensible numerate, physics grad or engineer. He has not even admitted to the vast harms done by lockdowns and the net harm Covid vaccines yet or the idiot mask rules.
October 5, 2024
Peter
I keep wondering about that too.
And they spent their 14 years never really refuting all the criticism they received from the left.
Maybe unlike Labour they just don’t understand how to work the media? ( Infiltrate etc).
Or maybe they embrace TOO broad a Church?
October 5, 2024
Very well put.
I watched with incredulity Starmer wax nonsensical about Carbon Capture and Sequestration; does he not see the irony of spending billions on capturing CO2 when his government, according to him, is going to remove burning all fossil fuels from the UK economy. Perhaps its to capture CO2 from our breathing?
As for a ‘new industry leadership’ just a few moments on searching with his computer would have found this:
https://www.geoengineeringmonitor.org/the-current-state-of-ccs-in-the-u-s-resume-after-100-years-of-co2-capture-and-25-years-of-extensive-federal-funding
We have idiots running the country.
October 5, 2024
Morgan Motor Company is majority owned by a European private equity group, Investindustrial. The Morgan family retain a minority shareholding and continue to act as stewards for the brand.
October 5, 2024
My French lecturer had a Morgan.
A sort of sports car, green I think with, I believe a wooden chassis (?)
The company’s philosophy was to always keep demand higher than supply.
Seems to have worked.
October 5, 2024
Sir John,
You are, as usual, absolutely correct in what you say. I too believe that the people will decide whether a product is worth buying or not. All previous major changes to the way we live and what we purchased, were as a result of the benefits or improvements that the new technologies afforded.
Most other countries have governments which protect their interests and so are likely to not follow Milliband’s lead into ruin. We are shooting ourselves in the foot with net zero. If virtually everyone on here can see the folly of net zero, why can’t politicians or do they just don’t care about our well being?
October 5, 2024
“We are shooting ourselves in the foot with net zero.” Both feet, chest and probably blowing out heads off too. It is Scientific, economic, environmental insanity. Insanity for the defence of the UK too.
October 5, 2024
Not insanity for those with one hand on the tiller and the other in the till.
It all makes perfect sense.
October 5, 2024
Or are they getting back handers from foreign governments who want to destroy our car industry. That’s the only logical reason I can see for this deluded policy. Also why aren’t the Unions crying out about the loss of UK manufacturing like they did in Thatcher’s era?
October 5, 2024
The car industry is wrong but this is driven by misguided governments in the UK and worldwide.
I recently had to change a second special battery in my diesel car it is just used for the start stop at traffic lights to save fuel. It cost me £420 & this after searching for the best deal not at the main dealer. With my typical driving I doubt it has saved more than £20 in-fuel over my 4 years. But it doubtless meant the car passed some daft EU test or requirement. It certainly will have increased & not decreased CO2 with the two batteries being manufacture and the weight of them being carried for 80,000 miles so far.
October 5, 2024
Battery cars will be just fine once we have better batteries. They need to be lighter and smaller per KWH, faster to recharge, less of a fire risk, cheaper per KWH stored, longer lasting, less depreciation, easier to recycle. So R&D on this and when they sort all these pointe I will perhaps buy one. Rolling out now with subsidies and market rigging just litters the place with duff technology that needs replacing later and wastes £ billions for no or even negative benefits.
October 5, 2024
To get the batteries you speak of Ll we’re going to have to rewrite the laws of physics. No doubt Milibrain will think this is feasible and will legislate accordingly.
October 5, 2024
Well slow progress is certainly being made – double the capacity for the weight/voume, half the price, longer life, fast charging would make them fairly competitive with many petrol cars. Especally if they did not burst into flames too often.
October 5, 2024
I wouldn’t buy an EV car with the current technology no matter how many incentives this deluded government offers. The batteries deteriorate too quickly, the depreciation on them is massive, they are impractical for holidays and they are a fire risk. I’ve just watched a video of one catching fire in the US hurricane, burning down the poor person’s house.
October 5, 2024
What about all the tower blocks full of electric bike and scooter batteries being charged each night?
October 5, 2024
The main benefit of start-stop is a reduction of local emissions when waiting at traffic lights. The same could be achieved by removing many unnecessary traffic lights, and allow the junction to be fully utilised.
October 5, 2024
Indeed stop blocking the roads. But the energy and money needed to make the battery (and carry it round) and its replacements every five years make no sense for the savings made.
As JR says get rid of socialist traffic lights and go for roundabouts and other more sensible junctions, underpasses, bridges…
October 5, 2024
Would people trust the government to continue the “freebies” (shorthand for transfers of money from taxpayers to the EV producers and purchasers)?
If buyers expect to keep an EV for 8-10 years that covers the next election cycle. Buyers will have a big financial incentive to vote for Parties supporting EVs. Labour could get some votes from this next time around, even after the destruction to everything else they will have done.
October 5, 2024
I think it’s perfectly understandable for car manufacturers to be demanding big cash handouts from the government. It is after all the politicians who want them to abandon ICE vehicles in favour EVs. If I was a car manufacturer, I’d say to the government “You want me to produce all these uneconomic cars that people don’t really want? OK, but you’ve got to pay me to make it worth my while. Otherwise I’ll take my business elsewhere. And you, the government, will then take the hit in terms of massive layoffs in constituencies some of you are elected for.”
I’m afraid, Sir John, freebies for the automobile industry are the only solution if things stay as they are. As long as taxpayers vote for parties that make them poorer in the name of eco-ideology, this will go on.
October 5, 2024
Reform having some spectacular gains in local elections. Let’s hope the momentum continues to the next GE.
October 5, 2024
With the current state of the roads, driving is a nuisance. Major roads near me are closed and diversions in place once again. We had the same thing a few months ago.
So I avoid driving around there and hop on a train instead when possible. I drive to places with plenty of free parking that does not require driving up multiple storeys. I do at least have a garage and space for several more cars. Were that not so, then the hassle of finding and keeping parking spots outside my home would be another deterrent to car usage.
Writing to local politicians does not change anything. I suspect poor road maintenance is accepted as a way to deter cars. Voters don’t count. Politicians only pay lip service to them at election time.
October 5, 2024
The Conservatives, Greens and Lib Dems all follow the same deluded policies so it’s hardly a vote winner. At the rate this government is going we will be a third world country by the end of their first term. No wonder Blair repealed the treason laws. He must have planned this future for the British people. I doubt after 8-10 years an EV will get you much beyond your 15 minute city that our politicians want us imprisoned in.
October 5, 2024
The bottom is falling out of the EV market. Most of the public:
1. can’t afford one;
2. can’t charge one;
3. want range security;
4. balk at the prohibitive insurance costs;
5. don’t want to have to stop once or twice on a long journey in order to re-charge it;
6. know that EVs have a risk of suddenly bursting into flames and, if they are involved in a collision are likely to be written off
They can make it difficult for people to buy a new petrol/diesel car. But they can’t make people buy an EV.
We now know that the Westminster Uni-Party, currently led by Keir-Ching!, will sacrifice whole industries on the altar of Net Zero; destroy their communities (Port Talbot the latest) and throw skilled working class/ manufacturing workers on the scrap heap in order to virtue-signal to the Globalists. So they won’t stop the EV coercion.
It remains to be seen whether the German Government is prepared to sacrifice VW, Mercedes and BMW; the French Government is prepared to sacrifice Peugeot and Renault and the Italians are prepared to sacrifice Fiat and Alfa Romeo.
PS All the time the Blue-Green branch of the Westminster Uni-Party advocates the same destructive policy (Net Zero) as the Red-Green branch, they should also be criticised.
Reply Yes of course comments on how well or badly the Opposition is at opposition is fine. What is not fine is going back over what the last government did wrong as we did that endlessly when they were in office.
October 5, 2024
Another major downside to EV ownership is the lack of servicing available. You are very restricted on who you can take your vehicle to to get it repaired.
October 5, 2024
Speaking of Alfa Romeo Donna 🙂 – I’ve driven nothing but Alfas for over 20 years now. I drove my first one in 1979 (a 2 litre Alfetta which I loved) then a long list of rather boring Vauxhall, BL, Ford, BMW & Renault company cars (as demanded by various Fleet Managers). Once free to choose, it’s been nothing but Alfa ever since.
Alfas have never really sold well in UK with much of the problem being a poor dealer network but you just need to find a good specialist (Alfa) garage. I also suspect Stellantis will abandon the marque before long with the ZEV manadate being the final straw here in the UK.
My current Alfa (a Guilia – the last pure ICE Alfa) is a joy to drive and beautiful to look at. Looked after carefully she could also be the last car I will ever own. That’s assuming this daft government doesn’t tax it off the road of course…
October 5, 2024
Yesterday Labour revealed it’s very own £22 billion black hole with its carbon capture plan to shove CO2 down holes in the North Sea and elsewhere. It would be better left free in the atmosphere to help British farming. This must be among the most absurd idea ever promoted by a Labour government – up there with it’s doomed ground nuts scheme of yester year. The only redeeming feature is that the spending is spread over 20 years so at least a future government might be smart enough to cancel most of it after “only” £5 billion or so has-been wasted. But even that might be asking too much of the current crop of politicians.
The car industry in the UK is doomed. JLR is starting to manufacture in India, the base of its owner Tata. Nissan will be for the chop, as Tavares it’s CEO has warned, when demand falls and it loses serious money. I assume all these demands for tax reliefs are a ploy to put pressure on the government to ease up its transition timing. If the government refuses it will give the manufacturers an excuse to start shutting down their operations as so many other industries have before them. There is development work underway in the UK on a solid state battery but it will be two to three years before a validated prototype is ready to be signed off, and then time after that to design it into products and to build the factory (in Somerset?) to make it in quantity. That assumes all goes well and that its technology is competitive with the alternative dozen or more solid state battery technologies currently in development around the world. If it isn’t, then volume production of batteries for EVs in the UK will be a pipe dream.
October 5, 2024
Miliband has been seduced by the fossil fuel cartel’s unproven “carbon capture and storage” scam and is proposing to allocate £22b of taxpayer’s money over 22 years.
The amount of energy required to extract, compress and transport the CO2 is vast and will make the whole process extremely expensive. There is nowhere in the world where CCS systems have worked; countries such as Saudi Arabia, Australia and America have invested $billions only to abandon the projects.
This money would be better spent on insulating domestic dwellings, upgrading the grid or building out EV charging points. If CCS could work, the oil majors would have already built a successful demonstration project. They have failed to do so. The whole idea is to burn more hydrocarbons and divert investment from renewables.
October 5, 2024
SG
Agree Carbon Capture is not efficient or cost effective.
Agree sensible insulation is a good investment for many houses, but only if properly installed.
Not all houses or commercial buildings are suitable for some types of insulation, indeed wrong or poorly installed insulation can do more harm than good.
Why should the taxpayer pay for installation of charging points, surely that is down to those who will make profit from them.
As usual the Government do not have much of a clue, and think they know best, when that is far from the truth.
October 5, 2024
A bit more CO2 plant, crop and tree food food is a net benefit so why on earth spend £billions capturing it.
See.
“CO2 , The Gas of Life”-Dr. William Happer video.
October 5, 2024
Consumers are not particularly attracted to EV’s. Forcing car makers to build them or be fined for not doing so, is guaranteed to drive (no pun intended) them out of the UK.
If you believe Co2 is killing the planet, if you believe ‘net zero’ is a wise decision and I believe neither. Look at some facts. The UK creates <1% of global Co2. Destroying our industries and spending trillions along the way, will make no difference. Why can't the zealots understand this.
October 5, 2024
You ask why the zealots can’t understand. Welk I think they can. Friends of the earth don’t want CCS because if it worked it would make fossil fuels viable and that’s a massive no no. The intention is to bankrupt us and set us back 200 years and they’re quire open about it.
October 5, 2024
Not many charging points in France going by our recent 2,500 mile round trip down to the South.
Thank goodness we have a diesel car, which incidentally is cheaper than petrol over there, as it is in most of Europe from past experience.
Adopting the communist manufacturing quota’s for ICE cars or be fined, will close many factories and lose thousands of jobs.
October 5, 2024
I’ve found the same in Spain and Florida. Few charging points and hardly an EV to be seen. We are destroying our manufacturing industry for nothing.
October 5, 2024
For a hundred years under a democratic governments, the auto industry profit was from customer choice paid with cash ….that changed under policies of net-zero under a command government, with auto industry profit made up from taxpayer subsidy ….it was from design and market manipulation, and the design was wrong
October 5, 2024
MY knowledge of cars is virtually net zero but I was really shocked when I learned that our hybrid has a NORMAL 12v battery…presumably the sort that in the much-missed days of old bangers went flat if you left your headlights on.
I thought it would have a SPECIAL battery that could deal with all the rubbish extra demands like the awful touch screen etc.
Anyway…no worries…they are due for banning like everything else.
Blasted Heath philosophy?
October 5, 2024
Everhopeful
Sounds like you may have a “mild hybrid”, range capacity with electric is usually about 1-2 miles only, battery charged from the engine.
Many true Hybrids do have a separate battery, and have a range of 20-35 miles on electric only power. can be charged from the engine or plug in.
Hybrid is a much misused terminology I am afraid.
October 5, 2024
“savage fines”
Backward, moronic one-trick mentality of any government I can remember. Yay…
October 5, 2024
Well Sir John, looking forward (as you requested in your posting) as to which Political Party can get us out of this mess we appear to have only one choice, and that will not go down well with some of the Conservative Party leadership hopefuls as it is not their party.
October 5, 2024
The push to get us all into EVs is based on a series of lies that become more obvious by the day:
– we will never have enough windmill power to satisfy a fraction of the EVs required to replace existing cars;
– storage batteries that soak up and store energy when the wind doesn’t blow are located dangerously and have a record of exploding – they are inherently wrong, being part of a bad design;
– we don’t save any Co2 by switching from petrol / diesel – far from it, the cost is greater;
– historically we have less Co2 in the atmosphere than ever before – so Co2 is NOT the problem;
– energy provision will become less and less secure – government policies will lead to blackouts and deaths;
– EVs are not safe – BYD recalled 100,000 vehicles because of a fire risk. In America, 200,000 Jeeps were recalled;
– netzero is NOT affordable – nobody in authority dares to even estimate the true cost, but it will exceed gross national income – and don’t bother to ask red Ed;
– Hurricanes are less harmful now, although the media talks them up;
– the lies behind netzero now see the UK with no steel making capacity, so less for cars which become even more expensive;
– the labour government promised us growth, instead we have de-industrialisation.
I’m sure I’ve forgotten some big ones…
October 5, 2024
CCS, ha ha ha ha.
Is Milliband now going to put a lid on every active volcano ?