Let me make clear I share the left’s aim that no child should lack good food, clothing, a warm bedroom and a good school. Each child usually gets that because they have the even more important asset of loving parents who will provide for them. Provision of the basics need backing up with love and support, to help the child achieve their best and get some fun out of life.
UK policy rightly seeks to keep most children under the care of their parents. The state only takes the difficult decision to take over responsibility for the child in extreme cases where the parents have shown they are not willing or able to provide, and especially where they are a direct threat to the child from neglect and violence. The state is a better substitute than such parents, but the outcomes for children in state care are often worse than the average of children brought up by their parents. The state cannot supply the love, continuous support and warmth of a normal mother or father.
Practically all UK children have no money or very little money, as they cannot take paid employment and are not trusted with substantial sums by their parents. Tackling child poverty does not mean giving money to the children to provide for their housing, food and entertainments. It means ensuring the parents have enough money to pay for their children’s food, clothing, accommodation and other costs. So to resolve the difficulties we need to study parent or family poverty.
The hard cases are where the parents do have the money but treat the children badly and do not spend enough of the family income on the children. These are a small minority, and result in difficult cases over whether the children need to be taken into care.
Most cases of family poverty are cases of the family income being too low for all the demands upon it. Some are from bad budgeting and spending priorities made by the parents. The idea of the two child cap was to say to parents on low or no income that they need to limit family size to avoid more pressures on the family budget. Most working parents on higher incomes do limit the size of the families they have to one or two children because they recognise they cannot afford more or they do not have the accommodation they would need for a larger family. The benefit system recognises that people can have children by accident, or can have a family of one or two and then fall on hard times, so they deserve full benefit support for themselves and their children.
The main policy we need to tackle child poverty is the policy of promoting work for more people. Family poverty is concentrated in the group of people who do not have jobs at all, who have to rely on benefits. The second important policy is to promote better paid work to tackle those who are in jobs but whose income is too low to meet all the family needs.
The government says it shares these two aims, which should be the core of any policy to tackle family poverty. The way to help more people into jobs was successfully implemented by the last government, making big reductions in unemployment. It has been well set out by the Centre for Social Justice and by Iain Duncan Smith who pioneered Universal Credit to make sure it would always be worthwhile for people to get a job.
To get wages up we need much tougher restrictions on inward migration to stop the flow of people to take low paid jobs from abroad and to depress pay rates. We need growth policies as set out on this website to encourage more investment in technology and training to support people into more productive jobs. Helping people get more skills and promotions boosts their incomes. Raising UK productivity allows higher real wages to be paid.
September 27, 2025
I seem to remember similar debates when I first became interested in politics. Wilson was PM. This debate has continued ever since and it remains unresolved. Socialists still refuse to accept human nature. Instead they aim to suppress it and enforce behaviour by legislation, coercion and punishment. They still haven’t learned that Socialism has failed everywhere in the world it has been tried. Why do they continue to change human nature instead of working with it? Because only when humans lose their humanity can they become good socialists and that is the most important thing.
September 27, 2025
As my father used to say , if you’re clever enough to have them, you should be clever enough to keep them.
It’s not the schools place to feed and water children, it’s the parents responsibility.
September 27, 2025
Sir John,
You are correct, it is the children that suffer the effects of parental poverty.
I personally feel that kids who are dumped off at breakfast clubs at schools and remain at the school to attend after school club also suffer but in a different way.
I know it’s old fashioned but, growing up, my mother never worked. She was a stay at home mum and my father worked to support his family, which consisted of my mother, him and the four children. He had a higher tax code so he could earn and keep more of his money which he earned. The problem we now have is, both parents have to work, just to live a basic lifestyle in order to make ends meet.
You can throw more and more money at families but someone does has to pay for it and, we are too highly taxed already.
Use the personal tax code to make work and marriage pay and reduce naturally the DWP.
Good parents have always gone without and fed their children when necessary and have taken second and third jobs or extra hours when necessary, it is my opinion that, that work ethic has largely disappeared and to many people expect the state to provide everything for them.
September 27, 2025
Yes, I agree with your point about a single paycheck being sufficient to support a family of 4. In many cases it still does, however in too many it doesn’t and requires both parents, if there are, to work to afford a family of 3 let alone more. I don’t think this is what Darwin meant by natural selection. This is social engineering brought about by socialist philosophy, where all work for the state and the state provides for all; except it doesn’t, and never has and always fails. Looks like we’re going to have to learn that lesson again.
2TK has lifted his mask; we now see the authoritarian exposed. He says a digital ID will be ‘mandatory’ and we ‘will not be able to work’ without a digital ID. It is quite possible this is just another distraction, however this is clearly Starmer’s social control fantasy plan in the open.
September 27, 2025
Before taking over the parental responsibilities, I think the State should firstly find out who in the wider family are available to care for the chlidren e.g. aunts, uncles etc, whether they are in the UK or abroad.
I think that the State should be last resort parents, not first resort.
September 27, 2025
Agreed. It would generally be beneficial for the child and wider family than placing a child in care. And even if the family member received some taxpayer funding to facilitate it, it would be cheaper than State Care.
September 27, 2025
I would just point out that there is no need to have children ‘by accident’ now. We are not in Victorian times, and contraception, in many forms, is widely available. I believe it is free if one cannot afford to pay.
I do not believe there is anything like as much ‘child poverty’ as Labour would have us believe. There are generous benefits available. There are too many times that Mothers are on TV complaining that although they are in receipt of all benefits, its ‘not enough’. The Media actively encourages this. It seems it is a stick to beat the Opposition, and to make the taxpayers feel guilty, and agree to pay even more tax
September 27, 2025
This is an outstanding post from Sir John. If there was one thing that I wanted when Labour took office, it was to end child poverty and the need for food banks in our country.
The unbelievable cost of renting is the main cause of child poverty. Both parents have to work to pay it and despite the recent rise in the minimum wage, the landlords rapidly put up the rent to get any increase with the help of the no fault eviction laws. If only we still had the council houses!
You need to be an exceptional person to succeed in this environment. Marcus Rashford, the England footballer, is a good example. He grew up in poverty, frequently went to bed hungry – yet managed to succeed.
More school breakfast clubs would help, as would summer holiday clubs. Many caring tachers feed their charges out of their own pocket. It shames us as a nation that so many children are growing up stunted because of lack of food.
September 27, 2025
There isn’t an epidemic of children growing up stunted because of lack of food. There IS an epidemic of overweight children who are growing up to be obese because they are fed rubbish.
September 27, 2025
@Donna
Mrs Gold has a personal trainer in the gym she frequents. They say 90% of female cellulite is alcohol related. Alcohol is cheap and freely available in this country. Even in Birmingham, which apparently is subject to Sharia law, having the largest concentration of Muslims in the country
September 28, 2025
I don’t believe many obese children are obese because they’re hitting the sauce.
September 27, 2025
In a country as developed as ours is, with people driving around in BMW SUVs paid for from state funding of mobility allowance, it is a disgrace that some children from poor low income families are malnourished and poorly clothed.
The ongoing waste of tax payer’s money on so called programs of social care, such as mobility assistance must be reviewed. The limited money now available to an over spending over borrowed state must be deployed more effectively, not wasted on social chancers who think driving around in £50,000 cars, principally funded by the tax payer via Motability is socially sensible.
September 27, 2025
I agree with every word. The solution is jobs for the parents (not state dependency) and stop the wage compression by dealing with excess immigration.
Our net immigration levels should have been at their long-term average of about 50k / year. The cumulative excess since 1997 is now in the multiple millions. Every excess immigrant compressed a low skilled person’s wage, and simultaneously inflated his rent and taxes. Can we imagine how better off the British low income would be today if that mistake had never happened.
I estimate each British low income person would be GBP tens of thousands better off today than they currently are. With a better future, they would also be better motivated and ever-bettering themselves, affording another child and the economy would be growing organically too.
Instead, look at Britain today. The low income are state dependent either through full benefits or income supplements (as their wages are so compressed and rents so high) and the economy has been growing at a diminished rate since about 2004 too (partly explained by a lack of organic growth).
Getting net immigration levels down to about 50k per year needs to be any Government’s top priority right now.
September 27, 2025
SG.
Many people decided to sink their savings into buy to let property to help boost the growth of their pension pots and savings. With Brown raiding their private pensions, record low returns on savings etc it’s no wonder people with a bit of get up and go invested in rental property.
The state saw people were making a nice return, and that’s not allowed in this socialist state under both blue labour and Starmer’s labour, so the Gangster State wanted it’s cut. Taxes have risen on private landlords and a whole host of extra rules and regulations have made the buy to let market too much hastle to be in. As the numbers of people in the country has increased, demand has increased too. BTL landlords getting out of the over regulated and over taxed business, has led to more shortages of rental properties and of course, the number being rented by HMG for the boat people, has increased the shortage and increased rents to even less affordable levels. In fact, it is the perfect storm.
I agree that we could do with more council housing but, councils are short of money and yes before people pile on me, they waste a lot of what they do have, but someone has to pay for the housing to be bought and building land is extort at the moment.
No, I don’t know what the answer is.
September 27, 2025
Governments have been importing parental poverty and therefore child poverty for decades.
That’s what importing unskilled, low-wage, welfare-claiming immigrants leads to: increased profits for corporations; poverty for families; a huge welfare bill for taxpayers.
The first stage in any solution therefore has to be to stop importing poverty.
A young child’s welfare is not best served by both parents having to work full-time to make ends meet – and placing that child in expensive, often poor quality childcare. The first few years of a child’s life are the most important for its development and they benefit from building a strong relationship with a few “special people” – usually their parents and grandparents. I think there is a case to be made for re-structuring child benefit and front-loading it, so that one parent can afford to either stay at home and care for their child for 2-3 years or only work part-time …. with a reduction when the child is older and more independent / resilient.
I do not think breakfast clubs are a good idea. Rather than rushing young children into school it would be better if employers allowed a working parent to start an hour later.
September 27, 2025
Parents won’t be able to support their children, when the government adopts policies of strangling businesses with employment legislation and taxation so they have to close, or they make employment so unattractive that those parents can’t find jobs.
Governments have forced both parents into work through high taxation and policies intended to swell housing costs. Not only can one parent not afford to stay at home and look after the family, but now they struggle even when both are in work.
September 27, 2025
Correct, Sir John.
At best it’s a dead cat strategy and at worst it’s the start of total authoritarian control when coupled with digital currency and smart meters/electrification.
If it’s only needed to be able to work in the UK it won’t be needed by those who don’t intend to work except in the black economy using cash, including illegal migrants. The NHS and benefits are either statutory or required to satisfy ECHR/HR legislation and won’t therefore require an ID card to access them. It will only impede those who wish to about their business lawfully in the UK and give the police another job not related to real crimes. Perhaps the biggest reason for its implementation will be for a further massive increase in the Civil Service and/or a new quango to reduce the unemployment figures?
It certainly won’t stop illegal immigration as the illegal migrants don’t care if they work or not. They don’t need to work and their benefits won’t disappear as a result of the mandatory issuing of ID cards to all those who can work legally in the UK. For instance, will it stop illegal migrants who claim asylum for persecution going back home for extended holidays?
September 27, 2025
What we need is Cultural Change, not just cuts for the sack of it! And, to do so when People can make the adjustment themselves! Something you would want to enter into, solicit good, Profitable (Efficient), Economic behavior! Not state dependency, and PAYE! If the state (Revenue is needed) is that large, it needs to be smaller, let People keep more of their own money! Encourage Mobile capital (Accessible Lower/Longer Interest Rates), flexible working/contracting (Across the whole Country), and Competition for Resources!
Top Down; One of the most important drivers must be a Cheap Enter Strategy, Home grown, and self financed! Promote Business activity, and lower Investment Taxes!
And, for this to make a real difference, in the longer term, Reform of the Banking System, Competition Regulation, and a strategy to reduce the size of the State! Planning Reform!!!! Allow People to own land, build a Home, and build what they can Afford (Log Cabin)!
But, this does promote some contradictions to a solely Free Market Strategy! GB is not is a position to operate with Open, and completely Free Markets, and will never ever again will it be! It needs to recognize the British Interest, holding and controlling key assets, promoting stability though dynamic global market conditions, Global Events, and Geopolitics!
And, the Key driver to managing this is Politicians that are not Lazy in their thinking! We need Political Reform!
And, to encourage Individual Rights/Responsibilities, Self Determination, Free to withdraw their Labour, and Encourage Savings (holding assets open to all)! Break open the Asset Classes!
September 27, 2025
Regrettably, it’s not a small minority of parents spending family income recklessly; actually it’s a large number of parent/s doing this! Furthermore, there are too many single parent families, mainly women, struggling to support their children with an absent father failing to provide financial support! This has been going on for decades, certainly since 1970’s and it’s got far worse. There is also a direct link with single mothers struggling to bring up her children, living in poor quality property, in rough areas and crime. All are interlinked. Today, the issue is aggravated by the reluctance to marry, the absence of the Church of England, an education system fixated on equality, resulting in a marked absence of domestic science teaching and a serious shortage of affordable rental housing? Perhaps teaching domestic science, including diet, and an understanding of family finance should be made mandatory in all schools? The prospect of buying a flat or small house is now completely out of the question as two incomes are now essential to pay rent or mortgage. Then there’s the thorny question of diet and obesity? This has now reached epidemic levels? Just look at the number of young overweight, unfit people some even in disability scooters, not to mention the explosion of disability vehicle stickers generally! It’s a complicated social and economic situation and I struggle to understand how with a broken benefit system, this Labour government could remove the two child cap?
September 27, 2025
Very well said. I totally agree with you.
September 27, 2025
Having worked as Health Visitor for more than 20 years in Shepherds Bush., I can say that money/ benefits was handed out to single parents( mothers who had partners) but did not want to admit acknowledge this , as it would mean that their benifits including housing( council flats) would be restricted. It became a way of life and teenagers were not supported by their parents. As soon as they got pregnant, parents kicked their children out saying they would be housed , fed and watered by the state. It was going on more than 25 years ago and was abhorrent then. I hate to think what it has become. At the time when Ann Widdecome was Home Secretary, I spoke to her about this . She was not surprise !
September 27, 2025
The biggest cause of (relative) poverty in this country is housing costs. Our benefits are generous and the majority of people can pay their bills except for rent or mortgage. This is driven by ridiculous house prices.
That horse has bolted so the only thing that government can do is hold prices where they are for 10-15 years so that values catch up with incomes.
Supply is part of the equation but so is demand. No illegal immigrant should get any accommodation other than tents or dormitories. Legal immigration should be reduced to zero for 10 years to allow our house prices to catch up.
Printing money by banks should be prevented so that the money supply increase does not unfairly disadvantage those who can borrow or access funds to purchase assets. Sound money and reduced immigration are the tools to reduce poverty over time.
September 27, 2025
I go to Sri Lanka three times a year. Most workers there get less for a day’s pay than what British workers (even those on the minimum wage) get for an hour’s pay. That is similar to most of the world – Indian people are generally much poorer than Sri Lankans. What those on benefits get here is much more than those in work get in most of the world. No wonder there is negligible immigration into Sri Lanka and many people there want to go abroad to work (to the Gulf states for temporary work or to Britain for permanent work) which rather suits the state as payments sent to relatives bring scarce foreign currency into their country. Britain is certainly not poor as people rush to become immigrants to Britain. The problem in Britain is the doctrine that poverty is relative to other Britons and not even to the world as a whole or the relative poverty of previous times and many Britons are always complaining while managing their money badly and spending extravagantly compared to most of the world. Nor does poverty lead to crime nor excuse crime (there is little street crime in Sri Lanka) and children in Sri Lanka don’t seem to be brought up worse than in Britain.
Complaining about poverty and ‘the poverty industry’ is handicapping Britain as it leads to industrial unrest and too much and inefficient government spending as well as condoning much misbehaviour. I am speaking very generally here about modern societies and of course there are many exceptions.
September 28, 2025
its is NOT just immigrants coming in to do low paid jobs. it is immigrants coming in to do jobs everywhere in the pay and skills spectrum. if all it does is displace locals from jobs, discourage them from training in those skills, discourage employers from hiring locals then all it does is ripple down displacement of locals from jobs, and driving pay levels down. this is exactly what the outsourcing movement does with the mass import of cheap foreigners, mainly from India. that is exactly why there is a massive H1b visa debate going on politically in the USA, and it saddens me that we are not having a similar debate in the UK, the people who can see the abuses first hand discuss it constantly but the press and politicians are not even basically aware of the reality.
September 28, 2025
or look at the way, for instance, the NHS constrains the numbers of locals able to enter training at various bottlenecks of the training pathways, constantly generating a perpetual need to use immigration to staff health care. this displaces masses of locals from the jobs market. and again its far from just low skilled.
September 28, 2025
we are printing skilled worker visas for care workers, sales supervisors, allsorts in IT… of course its hard for locals to get jobs.
September 28, 2025
If you can not afford children DON’T have them there are a group of families that have five child that expect the tax payers to pay for them