Vince Cable and others want to amend the Finance Bill to stop the government being able to collect taxes needed for the NHS and other purposes unless the government do what the Remain MPs tell them to over the EU.
There seem to be no limits to the extreme actions these MPs want to take to thwart the will of UK voters. They remain completely unreconciled to the UK leaving in March as promised. This is a new low for Project Fear.
It is high time they allowed Parliament to complete implementation of the result of the People’s Vote in 2016. The idea we would want a second People’s Vote on the same thing, having ignored the first one, is particularly bizarre.
January 7, 2019
John, you will, I am sure, be interested in ‘The Case for Hard Brexit’ by Richard Thomson, highlighted in Bill Mitchell’s latest blog. Remainers, in particular the outrageously biased Guardian, are utterly corrupt in their depiction of just about every independently reported. economic circumstance/trend. Now, being very left of centre, I disagree with many of your views, but recognose your clarity at amassing facts that completely counter the Remainer’s continuing Project Fear. Bill Mitchell is always clear and precise in his destruction of the romantic/sentimental erroneous conflation of the EU and Europe – two entirely distinct entities.
Thank you for your clarity. I do hope a ‘hard Brexit’ is the final outcome.
January 7, 2019
Ageed. It occurs to me that we must put aside our honestly held and mutually respected differences of left and right in order to deal with the threatened destruction of the system that allows us to make that choice. Perhaps Brexit has become something of a side show? Apropros of the conflation, precisely and very nicely put.
January 7, 2019
When Parliament no longer represents the people or the will of the people it has no purpose. The anger among people is real, the public detest Teresa May is real, people no longer want to see or hear her at all it annoys them.
May knows she is lying to the public. She acknowledged in her Lancaster speech and commments afterwards that by remaining half in and half out and remaining in part would not be leaving. The Gov. leaflet was also clear. Therefore to repeat her lies on a daily basis leaves the public with no trust in her whatsoever.
January 7, 2019
JR, civil contingency Act 2003 was introduced to prepare for all known and likely disasters man made or otherwise. There are community risk registers for every local authority area. Of which the most important must be exercised by the public sector in preparation for such an eventuality. Plans have been in existence for 15 years and can be adapted by the govt for leaving the EU.
Why has the govt issued 70 odd scare notices not taking heed of any of the work conducted in the last 15 years that it instructed the public sector to carry out and prepare for?
Why has Grayling abused public funds for his stint today when there are plans in place above for ferry disasters, blocks etc?
I am sick to death of this dishonest incompetent wasteful govt. I am sick to death of the highest taxes in fifty years for for this shambolic mess Under May. Time for her govt or your party to go.
January 7, 2019
āThe anger among people is real, the public detest Teresa May is real, people no longer want to see or hear her at all it annoys them.ā
Indeed it is hugely depressing to see or hear her endless pathetic, robotic, dissembling. Especially with Corbynās Venezuella II the alternative waiting in the wings.
January 7, 2019
To those of us who voted to leave, there is no ‘hard or soft Brexit’ – just Brexit. What May proposes is certainly not Brexit and this morning over 200 MPs have signed a letter demanding no deal is not an option.
Sadly the majority of 650 MPs are determined one way or another not to honour the result of the referendum.
January 7, 2019
That’s what you people never understand. There is no ‘just Brexit’. There will ultimately have to be a deal with the EU or a set of arrangements that will allow all the various systems and processes to carry on – not just trade. 40 plus years of closely intertwined trade, politics and law – you were told that we could wave goodbye to it all the day after the referendum without any consequences. You were told a lie and you believed it. And what’s wrong with 200 MPs trying to agree on stopping a damaging outcome? At least they care about business, jobs, universities, ports management, NHS staffing, and all the organisations large and small that NEED a deal. Mr Redwood has shown again and again that he cares about none of these.
January 8, 2019
There is no deal.
There is only a Withdrawal Agreement.
We should have a similar trading relationship that countries like China USA Japan South Korea India and others have with the EU.
January 8, 2019
‘That is what you people never understand’, do YOU understand how patronising that is?
I have studied the EU for 25 years, I understand it perfectly, I also understand that most things can we dealt with by trading under WTO rules, all the other issues can be settled by reciprocal arrangements that the EU needs as much as we do. None of them requires us to submit to the EU.
January 8, 2019
This is simply false, Jools. If MPs accept Mrs may’s deal, we leave the EU on 29 March. That is Brexit. Her deal will mean a close relationship with the EU going forward but maintaining free trade arrangements with the Eu after Brexit was exactly what many Leavers (eg Gove, Johnson, Paterson, Hannan etc) assured us would happen
January 8, 2019
No it does not. Each of the EU countries will have a veto in future relationship. Therefore likely to be much longer as the UK would have given up all its bargaining chips. Secondly, Drunker and Barmy will be gone. The two EU officials currently boasting that the UK will have to lose N.Ireland as a price for Brexit and that the EU will have much leverage and control if the servitude plan is signed will still be present to give Ollie another thrashing.
There was no lie. Article 50 demands a future relationship is agreed before departure, article 184 of the servitude plan makes it clear this has not been achieved! Idiot May wants to agree a servitude plan without a future relationship! How stupid and one sided could that be when it was known all along that to decide the border issue would require the future relationship to be decide, Davis made that point clear. May ignored and ploughed on like a bonehead hoping she could bounce all into her servitude plan and bind the country and parliament forever.
January 8, 2019
Unfortunately Mrs May’s deal isn’t a “deal”, the second part which could be called a deal, the “Political Declaration” is a wish list that kicks the can down the road and will never be delivered.
There is no deal here just capitulation.
January 8, 2019
Agreeing to the WA is not taking back control from the EU so is not leaving the EU as many “Leavers” declared.
January 8, 2019
This is simply false, Les Bourne. If MPs accept Mrs Mayās deal, we don’t leave the EU on 29 March 2019. It isn’t Brexit when we are locked back into the CU, the SM, and military, diplomatic and legal subservience. Not only is there the 2-4 year transition but the EU has no incentive to give us a better deal after. It is exactly not what we were assured we would get before 23 June 2016.
January 7, 2019
@ Wilfrid Whattam
From your referring to Dr Mitchell’s blog I suspect you are Australian. Although Mitchell’s ideas about the relationship between monetary policy and general macroeconomic policy are not far from my own, I think that his political preferences (he basically calls everyone who is not a socialist/natiolalist a “neoliberal”, even Australian Labour) are quite different from most readers here and certainly mr Redwood’s who sees the EU as a contraint on UK’s ability to engage in unrestricted “neoliberal” trade (the “global Britain” syndrome) . You Dr Mitchell would feel quite at home in Mr Corbyn’s company were he to teach in the UK. But many of his ilk have moved to Australia, not the other way around. Like some nationalist (Tory/UKIP variety) Brexiteers he is anachronistic about the policy space small countries enjoy.
Reply Not my view. I see the EU as preventing us having a self governing democracy
January 7, 2019
The curious thing about the hysterical ones is that they are sanguine about a million jobs having gone from the High Street, putting the High Street itself at risk, because of their laziness and selfishness in preferring to buy on line. This sacrifice, apparently, is fine. It is barely remarked on. Yet when it comes to getting rid of foreign rule, they won’t allow any change at all.
January 7, 2019
Because they know that they are not up to it. Much better for someone else to do all the hard work. I mean, look at the incumbent at Number 10 ? That’s the best that the Tories can offer.
January 7, 2019
A great lucid reply to these idiots, thank you Wilfred.
January 7, 2019
Can they command enough votes to pass their amendments?
January 7, 2019
Good morning.
We don’t need another peoples referendum. What we need is another people general election so we can rid ourselves of many of the Remain MP’s.
It is parliament that does not know what it voting for since it has not received all the legal advice to the government from the Attorney General. It is parliament that does not understand what was on the question paper, in debates in the house and the country and, finally, what was written in the Ā£9 million government propaganda pamphlet – Leave means leaving the Customs Union, the Single Market and the ECJ. ie The EU.
The problem here is that, despite a referendum and subsequent general election, we have, according to our kind host, a Remain parliament. Parliament is the problem, not the people. Get rid of parliament which, should only sit to reflect the views of the people and to air our grievances. If we cannot have that, then what is the point of parliament and MP’s ?
January 7, 2019
The government leaflet did not mention the customs union or the ECJ. I re-read it this morning just to check the inaccuracy of your post.
It does say that the government believed leaving the EU would make you and you family poorer and would lead to years of uncertainty.
It also said those who said doing a new deal with the EU would be easy – Liam Fox etc – were wrong.
Actually itās a pretty good leaflet. But perhaps it didnāt not have enough pictures in for some Brexiteers.
January 7, 2019
This is the leaflet that said āThe government will implement what you decide ?ā Surprised you seem to have missed that bit.
January 7, 2019
MPs bleating in parliament this afternoon that some members of the public have shouted abuse at them! Well what did they expect? Stand to be elected on lies to get votes, vote for the withdraw act that states leaving on 29/03/2019 if no agreement reached, now want to change what they voted for and what they told the public!
Parliament needs to uphold the normal standards of social convention, tell the truth, act on what you say honour your manifesto which got you elected to serve the people. Not forget all this and then say it is up to me to vote how I like because that is parliamentary democracy!
Right to recall by the public if MPs fail to honour what they stood to be elected on without good or justifiable reason.
If parliament serves no purpose to the public do not expect the rule of law to come to help.
January 7, 2019
Have a listen to Cameron (and Osborne) speaking on their round UK tours.
Every time he spoke it was thatt leaving the EU meant leaving the SM CU and ECJ
How could remainers think leaving meant anything else?
January 7, 2019
You must have missed the PM and the Chancellor of the day, in conjunction with numerous other politicians, all agreeing that a Leave vote would result in us leaving both the Customs Union and the Single Market. Go back and check.
You must have also missed the multitude of politicians warning that the 2016 People’s vote was to be a once in a generation opportunity to put the matter to bed. That there would be no second vote. That the government would implement the choice of the People. Over and over and over again.
You are right, they also warned that a Leave vote would come with some economic cost (although not necessarily resulting in a recession) and that we would go to the back of the queue as regarding a deal with the US. And yet, despite these economic warnings, the People weighed everything up and still opted for clearer democratic accountability and to Leave the EU.
Why are you still trying to muddy the waters?
January 7, 2019
Mr Cameron certainly did and, in a TV broadcast, said that a no vote would mean leaving the Customs Union, Single Market and ECJ. He said “we” will implement your decision, not him alone. That was a pledge for the whole of Government to carry out, including the then, Home Secretary, Mrs May. I am sure that you have seen the broadcast but are being your usual obtuse self. Fox and others said ‘should be easy’, regarding a UK-EU trade deal, based on the synchronicity we already have. Cameron’s comments were just an opinion, based on no credible data and was the beginning of Project Fear.
January 7, 2019
Andy, It is indeed remarkable that the government’s Remain propaganda booklet fails to mention the customs union or the ECJ. Now, why ever would they do that – it’s not because it was a Remain promoting pamphlet, was it?
January 7, 2019
These things were debated before the referendum and we were given stark warning of “…walking away from our biggest market.”
January 7, 2019
Correct Andy. It was part of a speech in parliament made by Cameron.
Pretty good leaflet for remainer propaganda. Didn’t work though.
January 7, 2019
Andy, that’s a really cruel thing to say and brought tears to my eyes. I think, though, it had a “not” too many. Time to put away your own picture books and tried those difficult wordy things more.
January 7, 2019
How many more times, Andy? This is not all about you and your bank balance. You can’t resist bringing it all down to ”being poorer”.
When will you understand? That is not the point. And, to most of us, it isn’t even important in the great scheme of things.
And this ‘scheme of things’ is the greatest that we have had to face in modern times.
January 9, 2019
“But perhaps it didnāt not have enough pictures in for some Brexiteers.”
You mean pictures of the people who run the EU, who are never elected, most people can’t name, but have so much control over our lives.
January 7, 2019
But we had a general election in 2017 and the Conservatives, standing on a hard Brexit manifesto, were deprived of their majority. It is clear that the British poeople do not want a hard Brexit
January 7, 2019
You are wrong. Both Labour and Conservative manifestos were āhardā Brexit, leaving SM and CU. So 80% of the vote ?
January 7, 2019
No such thing as hard or soft just leave or remain. Treason’s deal is remain in all but name .
January 7, 2019
Utter rot, no factually correct. There is and only has ever been Brexit.
Hard, soft phrases and all the rest were introduced by remainers to find a narrative or way of stopping Brexit.
January 7, 2019
No, they were simply voicing the fact that they did not want Theresa May to be able to steamroller through her own personal version of Brexit.
Fortunately, MPs (and the electorate) have seen through the obfuscation and decided this is not a deal worth pursuing.
January 7, 2019
They got more votes than any previous election and this despite an appalling campaign and Labour making false promises over paying off student debt.
January 7, 2019
Lorna Tay, You know as well as I do that when people vote at a general election, they are not all voting for or against a single policy. The support for one policy can only be determined in a single issue referendum. Which to your evident surprise it was. And what is now sneered at as “a hard Brexit”, by Remains like you, was the only Leave on offer at the 2016 Referendum. You have propagandised Leave just to make it sound unpalatable in order to cheat us out of our vote. You should be ashamed of yourself.
January 7, 2019
Labour stood on the same “hard” Brexit manifesto.
January 7, 2019
In that election the only UK wide party that was honest about its ambition to ignore the referendum result, the Lib Dems, didn’t exactly do well and in Scotland the SNP lost seats to Conservative and Labour.
I suggest that the voters in 2017 were voting on other issues than Brexit, which supposedly had been decided, but if you want to claim that everyone in 2017 voted on Brexit then they clearly didn’t vote to stay in the EU.
January 7, 2019
Yes. Another general election with all MPs wearing an EU badge if they are that way inclined. They should be proud to do so. In fact it would have been better had they done so in the past.
January 7, 2019
@Mark B; “What we need is another people general election so we can rid ourselves of many of the Remain MPās.”
More misguided thinking, the same sort that has seen TM safe in post for another 12 months, what ever (short of a forced GE)…
What if a GE doesn’t rid parliament of Remain MPās, what if it does the exact opposite by way of a grand coalition of Lab/LD/SNP/PC etc, not only is Brexit dead but we might even end up saying bye-bye to the GBP and our other opt-outs.
Regarding your second paragraph, perhaps parliament “does not understand” (the legal issues) but then nor do the Plebs, yet you want a GE, if MPs are being hood-winked what chance us mere Plebs?!
As for what a Leave vote meant, how many time, there were something like 28 or so “Leave” groups and manifestos, thus not all Leave votes were for the same vision of Brexit, being anything from leave the EU but become a member of the EEA/EFTA to leaving on WTO rules – parliament is merely reflecting that. What you and our host really mean is that parliament is not reflection what you want, nor what I want for that matter but that’s democracy.
January 7, 2019
Indeed. We need to remove the quislings who all stood on a leave manifesto but have now revealed their true selves. Federalist traitors who have lied to us for over 40 years on their true intentions.
We now know the facts have been hidden from us whilst they colluded to create a superstate without our knowledge or agreement. Yet they and their fellow mainstream media colluded to defame UKIP the only truly patriotic party!
January 7, 2019
Mark B
I have to agree, Parliament is certainly the problem at the moment, because the EU is only doing what the EU has done countless times before, refused to compromise on anything in the hope that opposition gives up !.
Why should it change, its a tactic which has been working well for them before in all other situations.
In the longer term I think we have to look at the system we have for choosing Party leaders/Prime Ministers, because in my view clearly all three Party leaders at the moment are certainly not the ones which would have been chosen by the majority of people who even support the different Parties.
If we do not have a clean break from the EU in March 2019,then the electorate will have been betrayed, and politics in our Country will have reached a new low, It’s as simple as that.
January 7, 2019
Well said Mark B.
January 7, 2019
Cheers mate.
January 7, 2019
“Liberal” seems to mean curtailing everybody’s freedom,
ordering them what to eat, what to drink,
what to say and how to think
January 7, 2019
Literally nobody is telling you what to eat, drink or think. Your brain is doing all the work for you.
January 7, 2019
Andy
“Literally nobody is telling you what to eat, drink or think. Your brain is doing all the work for you.”
You must be starving, poor thing.
January 7, 2019
Wrong
there is a non stop barrage of advice from tje State on what to eat drink and tjink.
New laws on free speech usevof the internet and new taxes on foods you rich young elite think we should not be allowed to have.
January 7, 2019
Not when such things are mandated by UK Law. Or rubber-stamped, EU directives, as they are commonly known.
January 7, 2019
Andy, You seem to have a compulsion to lie. It’s quite remarkable. Especially as you are so ineffective. Government/EU laws are no longer there to protect us from oppression by the powerful, and from criminals and con-men, but to mould us into the approved views of politics, global warming, food, tobacco, alcohol – the torrent of prodnose finger-wagging never stops.
January 7, 2019
NickC
“EU laws are no longer there to protect us from oppression by the powerful, and from criminals and con-men, but to mould us into the approved views of politics, global warming, food, tobacco, alcohol ā”
Funny you accusing others of being compulsive liars when you write the above untrue piffle.
All EU countries can decide what to enforce and how to enforce it – the EU can only advise like all the other world bodies on things like climate change, food, tobacco etc
January 8, 2019
Wrong again margaret.
There have been many laws rules and directives from thr EU that impact these areas.
From major ones which impact motor vehicle’s engines to recycling and energy policies to little ones like the maximum allowed power of vacuum cleaners.
It amazes me how little enthusiasts for the EU know about what the EU does.
January 7, 2019
Yes, pity we have Liberal Government masquerading as a Tories.
January 7, 2019
Not as far from the truth as you might think š
Go and look at leading Tory (sic) figures of the past, like Lord Finkelstein, as you see a pattern. This has more history also. I have tried to show it here but our kind host does not like it.
January 7, 2019
Part of the journey through socialism to communism is the control of language and the use of misleading labels, such as “liberal”, “progressive”, “Conservative” and “Labour”.
January 7, 2019
Liberal = (in a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate political and social reform.
āa liberal democratic stateā
What is Mr Cable proposing that would restrict individual freedom etc? Besides, the NHS is hardly a “liberal” entity. More like a socialist relic.
January 7, 2019
Rien
Vince Cable would sell this country out lock stock & barrel to the EU quicker than the blink of an eye. Be under no illusion.
January 7, 2019
The LibDIMS are clearly neither liberal nor democratic. The name is completely satirical. Almost no one votes for them anyway.
January 7, 2019
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1068133/brexit-news-remain-peoples-vote-stop-brexit
If these mps want all out civil war carry on with your constant betrayal of the people, we know who you are and you will made accountable for your actions , I might be abit long in the tooth but my country comes first and not bloody Europe and will fight to be free and I dare say a lot more northerners like myself are of the same mind
January 7, 2019
@Mick; Thankfully there are only a few ‘hot heads’ (easily dealt with under the law), the majority though understand the democratic process, even if they dislike the outcome.
January 7, 2019
Jerry – Hotheads are not easily dealt with under the law if they act legally, in vast numbers and all at the same time, and for several months. Imagine another ‘Winter of Discontent’. Imagine 17.4 million people taking out their cars to join the rush hour; to occupy supermarket car parks / trolleys / aisles, fill their trolleys then abandon them; imagine queues to buy just Ā£1 of petrol each; endless unnecessary telephone calls to Government and Council offices, and many failed appointments; 17.4 million people each day sending a letter on the most convoluted route to a wrong address; slow payment of bills; taking free literature and binning it; causing food shortages (eg. toilet paper); stopping buses at every stop, and pedestrian signals; in the country taking trucks, tractors and horses on the roads at rush hour. JUST IMAGINE. This is Democracy.
January 7, 2019
PS: not that I eat toilet paper!
January 8, 2019
@James bertram; Yes, JUST IMAGINE the 48% plus the 27.85% who chose not to cast their voted back in 2016 demanding something must be done, and be done damned quickly, about the 17.4m minority trying to hold the country to ransom…
How quickly would it take for parliament to pass a riot and disorder Act, or even place the country under marshal law, assuming such protests can not be dealt with under current criminal, civil, contract laws etc.
It will be interesting to see how France now proceeds with their recently announced proposed new laws to stop the anarchists within the Yellow Vests movement.
If you want to utterly kill Brexit, carry on acting like you’ve spent to long in a sauna!
January 7, 2019
Jerry
Democracy itself is under attack. And I agree with Mick…it’s to be fought for, and fight we will.
One thing is certain however; brexit or no brexit, when it’s all over the fifth columnists in the establishment will have to be identified, routed, exposed and punished.
January 7, 2019
@Steve; Yes Steve democracy is under attack but its the sort of thinking you have expressed that’s attacking it! What is more, as we saw today outside Parliament, when Brexiteer ‘hot heads’ act the europhile MSM make Brexit the villain, nice own goal…
January 7, 2019
Jerry
Your last paragraph sounds like something out of Stalin’s Russia.
January 8, 2019
@margaret howard; Me thinks you have got your attributions wrong Madam, otherwise please be more specific! On the other hand perhaps you meant to reply to @Steve, if so I concur…
January 8, 2019
@margaret howard – how very selective you are, why no comment about a previous remainiac rant threatening Stalanistic retribution ..
Andy – posted October 17th, 2018 at 2:31pm (http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/10/17/the-uk-after-brexit/#comment-967181)
“The only question remaining is how many of the Brexiteers we hold to account and bring to justice. I am confident that knowingly and a deliberately ignoring evidence to make your country poorer will, eventually, be found to be criminally negligent and they will be punished.”
Looks to me like you remainders started throwing these threats of retribution so why are you so surprised when the same is offered back.
January 8, 2019
@David Price; “Looks to me like you remainders started throwing these threats of retribution”
Oh right, so some Brexiteers on this site have not posted comments about “fifth columnists” or use words such as “treason” to describe those they disagree with, often doing so unprovoked, why are you so surprised when the same is offered back? Ho-hum…
January 8, 2019
Steve, You are right especially considering the abuse heaped on Leaves for the last two and a half years. I have been called all of – racist, uneducated, xenophobe, mad, Holocaust-denier, fascist, thick, extremist, etc – either to my face or in print. It seems Remains became too complacent and never expected we would retaliate eventually.
January 7, 2019
Membership of the EU is a matter of self interest, at least for those countries that are determined to stay in .
All 27 consistently show that the vast majority of the population see the EU as useful and not to be abandoned. This despite the fact that all countries have wishes incompatible with the general policy, hence “nationalist” politicians like the ruling parties in Italy, Poland and Hungary for instance, do not really wnt to leave, they want change but do not like to confront their economies with disruptive events. It has very little to do with sentimental nationalism which is a great rhetorical tool but difficult to manage once unleashed. As we should have learned in the 1930s.
But a politician bargaining for a greater share of common policy space or resources can use nationalist sentiment in his country too achieve something that a more ethical apporach cannot deliver. Of course the trouble caused by the British is helpful for those machiavellians..
January 7, 2019
Indeed.
But is there any real difference between T May, P Hammond and the Vince Cable Libdims. They are all left wing, climate alarmist pushing, project fear pushing, very high taxing and regulating remainers the only difference is that May and Hammond half pretends not to be.
The Tories should consider how very unpopular these idiotic policies are with the electorate. May must be stopped for burying the Tories again John Major style.
January 7, 2019
The Conservative party’s cake is already virtually baked. I live in an area that under the new boundaries should be a seat that they should pick up from being previously a Labour safe one. However my town’s Conservative club is no more its now just an ordinary watering hole. While the local Association keeps sending out e mails asking me whether I would be interested in becoming a candidate in the upcoming local elections, or in real desperation, do I know of anybody else who would be willing to fill the gap? Remember this also a party that has a greater income from its dead former members that whats left of its living ones.
January 7, 2019
“May must be stopped for burying the Tories again John Major style.”
Unfortunately it could be too late.
January 7, 2019
@ Gary C
You are so right on that one.
January 7, 2019
…………..Foreign aid whilst we can’t look after the elderly or ex military service personnel yet give houses and benefits to anyone foreign migrant who chips up here. The Tory party in truth are hard left liberals.
January 7, 2019
Timaction
“Tory party in truth are hard left liberals.”
Well actually I sometimes wonder if they’re racists, after all they seem to display contempt towards the English and anything English.
January 7, 2019
And foreign people who have never set foot here. Cameron promised to stop child benefit to EU citizens not living here. He failed or lied. May’s agreed it continues after we leave! ECJ applies to EU citizens afeter we leave and their descendants! How costly is the proposal to have two sets of laws in our country? Do they get legal aid as well paid for by the UK taxpayer?
January 7, 2019
I see that radio 4 had Lord Patton on yet again with his anti-democratic agenda to kill Brexit and destroy the Conservative party. Thus giving us Corbyn’s Venezuela Ii. One might have though that living in Hong Kong he would have learned something. But then I suppose he has a nice EU pension.
January 7, 2019
LL
We need JC and his particular brand of politics. Remember what happened in the 70’s and then what came after. We need a repeat to make the young realise that Socialism isn’t kind.
January 7, 2019
Since when are mainstream politicians (applying a standard social/economic matrix grid) leftist? May leftist? In favour of nationalisation of industry, workers councils, a guaranteed income regardless of effort, etc? Project Fear and environmental concerns are not leftist. The people who criticize brexit tend to be pro-business and the environment has a very broad audience. The latter not always very rational, but irralionality is not a leftist monopoly, to put it mildly.
January 7, 2019
yep the NHS is just another failing nationalised industry, and should be treated as such. the obvious lies in the hype that sustains it should be challenged by those in political life.
January 7, 2019
No May is in the Brown camp of socialism. Pay homage to the opinions of big business but milk them and everybody else dry to pay for big state.
January 7, 2019
pro BIG business.
January 7, 2019
Lifelogic
“May must be stopped from burying the Tories again John Major style.”
Actually for the tories it will be much worse than that if our departure is anything other than No deal – WTO. They won’t be out of power for a decade or so – they’ll be finished as a political party. Nobody is going to vote for them ever again. It’ll be their end.
January 7, 2019
yep hopefully a new party will form.
one that believes in real power to individuals, and not state allocation, rationing, and manipulation like the NHS.
January 7, 2019
@ Steve
theyāll be finished as a political party
It will not take a lot they are nearly there already.
January 7, 2019
And this would very richly deserved after the appalling, disembling, socialist dope Theresa May.
January 7, 2019
I admire Cable’s sincerity. He resents popular democracy like most politicians do. In fact democratic interference by the common man is such a tedious occurrence for most politicians. Having to prostrate oneself at the feet of the filthy, uneducated masses and grovel for their support.
The monstrous egos and sheer arrogance of some of those that inhabit Westminster exceeds even our most extreme perceptions of the modern political class. They are utterly vile and beyond repair
And May. Well, at least Cable’s sincere in his despicable stance. May, on the other hand is utterly insincere. Like a thief in the night we are unable to determine precisely their direction of approach, which is of course her objective.
We are a damaged nation and our democracy’s been deliberately tampered with to weaken the electorate’s grip over the actions of Westminster politicians. Even Cameron sanctioned the EU referendum on the basis of party interest. His primary concern wasn’t the sovereignty and independence of the UK and the promotion of British democracy but the interests of the Tory party.
What have the taxpaying British electorate done to deserve these people that now populate the Mother of all Parliaments?
I cling to the hope that decent, moral MPs like Sir John Redwood, Jacob Rees Mogg, Kate Hoey and others are able to impose their influence over this PM and all those who refuse to accept the will of the people as expressed so decisively in 2016
January 7, 2019
The more migrants we let in to overcrowd and bring in influences from the free movers , the least likely we are going to still have a UK . We will have completely ruined countries at the will of anything but English Irish and Scottish people. This very obvious future must be seen by the government. It definitely is a Brexit war.Who or what is influencing them?
January 7, 2019
Margaret
“Who or what is influencing them?”
It’ll be big businesses, that disagree with the notion that our sovereignty comes before their obscene profits.
January 7, 2019
Well said!
January 7, 2019
Indeed, we pay these politicians to make the strategic decisions, and May is stupid enough to have no Plan B to her non-conforming WA deal. She thinks she’s being clever, but like Cameron this will come back to haunt her. Any General having no plan for retreat in the face of certain defeat would either die in action or face court martial subsequently.
January 7, 2019
The problem that I have with Mr Cable is that he wants a second referendum with the options of “May’s deal” or “Remain” that’s not democracy.
We have already decided to leave by a majority so the options should be “May’s deal” or “WTO”
January 7, 2019
Exactly.
January 7, 2019
Indeed, Mayās sick deal or remain is not a real choice at all.
January 7, 2019
Precisely very well put.
January 7, 2019
January 7, 2019
Vote for them !
January 8, 2019
True, but what are the options?
Not vote…
I would like to see a “None of the above” tick box…
January 7, 2019
Mark B
Exactly we (the electorate ) voted for them and the reason they got in was the majority of the electorate do not give a monkeys toss of getting interested in what they are actually voting for. The remainder do not vote at all because they trust nothing that they say.
January 7, 2019
Some MPs don’t even try to hide their contempt for the electorate with their arguments in favour of the losers referendum. Its a case of how dare these plebs vote for something I disapprove of , go away and change your minds for I won’t change my views , so you have to to accommodate me.
January 7, 2019
Why do you expect a minority of MPs from a minority party to “impose influence”. Minorities can sabotage, they cannot govern, except by compromise and then they are at the mercy of their occasional partners. You might want to read Mao Ze Dong’s excellent little work “On Coalition Government”.
BTW your post is great. An excellent identity piece. Like the “decent, moral” attribute that would normally disqualify one for political work or rather a career that would include a senior ministry. Of course there is an exception to very rule.
January 7, 2019
Spot on and well presented.
January 7, 2019
Well said! The referendum has been a wake up call revealing how unfit for purpose Parliament has become. Its contempt for the people is shocking yet they would seem all too ready to send them to war,fighting and dying, despite this. If they donāt properly represent the people then there is no point to their continued existence!
January 7, 2019
Dominic
“I cling to the hope that decent, moral MPs like Sir John Redwood, Jacob Rees Mogg, Kate Hoey and others are able to impose their influence over this PM and all those who refuse to accept the will of the people as expressed so decisively in 2016”
I go one further and present the lily livered liberals with a challenge:
Betray us if you dare, and see what we’ll do.
January 8, 2019
@ Steve
Now that sound interesting! What exactly would YOU do? What about using your full (real) name? Easy to make threats behind a mask. Maybe this is somewhat out of bounds, Mr Redwood?
January 7, 2019
What is odd is its clear all these lib dem and labour remain MPs are adamantly opposed to brexit yet don’t quite have the courage of their convictions to just vote to cancel it. They say they will respect the result of the referendum, they say no Deal is unthinkable – which obviously means accepting a deal which the EU will agree to. Yet they say they will vote against Mrs May’s deal (odd in the case of Labour as it does pretty much what they say they are in favour of- the customs union, regulatory alignment etc). Will the electorate pick up on their humbug?
January 7, 2019
Wised
January 7, 2019
Itās called Parliamentary sovereignty.
Apparently in June 2016 you all voted for it.
January 7, 2019
Andy
….and I’ll bet you didn’t even vote at all.
January 7, 2019
Well lets have it then.
We voted first to leave the EU
After our decision is actually implemented Parliament will at last be sovereign.
January 7, 2019
Andy, So that means you didn’t vote for Parliamentary sovereignty over the EU? Hmmm . . . . we’d guessed. Anyway it is the people that are sovereign in a democracy[**] such as ours – provided our “representatives” have not sold us out to foreign princes of course.
[**] Democracy, derived from the Greek: demos (people) kratos (power). You’ve a lot to learn.
January 8, 2019
@ NickC
It is not a matter of the people (ie the population of a certain territory with UN membership) governing themselves (which happens almost everywhere, at least in nominal constittuional terms) but under what arrangements. A democratic decision is one that is legal under that country’s constitution. And I guess you would consider the UK constitution democratic. At least more democratic than that of, say, Saudi Arabia or Iran (actually the latter is far more democratic than the former but still lacking compared to the UK).
Now, what does the UK constitution say about Parliament? It is the sole entity that can make laws (in conjunction with the Government, which consists of members of Parliament) . Parliament can make a law that invites the population (eligibile ones) to participate in a referendum for instance and then change its mind and ignore the result by adopting a law that modifies the referndum result, ignores it or offers a fresh referendum. Nothing unconstitutional about that. Calling such a procedure undemocratic is a subjective, political statement and maybe one that signals that you would feel slighted in such a case. Which is only natural if the referendum felt important to you. But what is undemocratic yet constitutional for you is good policy for someone else.
January 8, 2019
Many feel that process to be undemocratic.
To ignore the result of a referendum they called and promised that “we will implement your decision”
Fortunately voters will be able to give their verdict at the next general election.
January 7, 2019
I’ll be voting for Corbyn.
I want YOUR money, Andy. What a fool I was to have ever been your Tory voting, working class fag, something I now realise having heard what the likes of you really think of me.
January 7, 2019
And what did YOU vote for, Andy? To remain as a vassal state within the EU, perhaps? To remain shackled to the EU and its laws? What DID you vote for, Andy? Did you even understand then? Do you understand now?
January 7, 2019
Let them try, their attempts will come to nothing. If they had the votes to do this, they would be in government. Any conservatives contemplating this action should be brought in line by the whips.
Just more bluster.
January 7, 2019
The LibDems, and Blairites, have pressed their self destruct buttons…
January 7, 2019
As I have said before, neither liberal nor democratic.
Despicable political chancers who rule themselves out of future involvement in our politics.
Just like the Democrats of the USA they will try any ploy to destroy their target and achieve their ends. They do so because they have nothing to offer the electorate who have directed that the opposite happen.
January 7, 2019
Several Conservative MPs are also involved in this deliberate attempt to overturn the result of the referendum. The issue is that whilst the country, including a majority of constituencies, voted to leave the EU, the majority of MPs who passed that legislation to hold a referendum do not want to leave the EU and clearly think their own opinion takes precedence over that of the people. Ken Clarke refers to the referendum in a disparaging way as an opinion poll. Our democracy is under attack by those charged to make it work. It is Parliament against the people.
January 7, 2019
Cable is just following his clear party policies and manifesto. Good for him. It is the “others” who are supporting him from Labour and Conservatives in direct contradiction of their manifesto pledges that we should be concerned about.
January 7, 2019
Do you mean the amendment signed by Nicky Morgan Hilary Benn, Rachel Reeves, Oliver Letwin Nick Boles etc which can only have any affect if we got a No Deal catastrophe?
Given that there is no support in the country, the House and least of all in your won constituency for the madman route I am astonished ( In the best Casablanca sense ) that you are not also a signatory.
January 7, 2019
Newmania, Not having a trade deal with the EU clearly will not be a “catastrophe”. Actually it is the best possible outcome because it ensures we are no longer a province of the corrupt, peculating, anti-democratic, fetid, mafia-friendly, EU empire.
January 7, 2019
Please stop conflating ‘No Deal’ and ‘catastrophe’.
We have t0 have No Deal before it can be known to be a catastrophe. The only reason it could be called a catastrophe beforehand is through the deliberate actions of MPs working to make their predictions come true. If there were a group planning in advance to not work for the best interest of the country in the case of No Deal those MPs should be removed from office – if there was some way to identify them beforehand…
January 7, 2019
As mentioned above we still await the full AGs report on the Withdrawal Agreement – however look at Prof Jonathan Story’s blog entitled “May -Barnier Withdraw Agreement”
The May deal is nowhere near a Brexit.
January 7, 2019
majorfrustration
“we still await the full AGs report on the Withdrawal Agreement”
Why?….obviously there’s some nasties in there, and I’ll bet nobody sees it before the vote. In my books that would be misleading parliament.
January 7, 2019
(*shocked* in the best Casablanca sense) ye gods I am going senile .
January 7, 2019
Newmania
You don’t say!
January 7, 2019
According to the official debriefing only 250,000 people (Daily Express today) attended the Peopleās March in October, when the organisers claimed 750,000 people attended.
This is less thatās the 300,000+ people who have signed the Gov petition to leave the EU on default terms.
January 7, 2019
Doesnāt matter if it was 750,000 – it was 750,000 like Andy who voted Remain so the entire march was irrelevant – 100% losers.
January 8, 2019
@ Javelin,
Thank the Express for printing the news that pleases you!
January 7, 2019
Well at least Vince Cable stood on a manifesto of ignoring the voters. Your own people didn’t, and are still reported to be planning to vote against their own manifesto:
January 7, 2019
The LibDems are a backward pressure group following Vince Cable who leads them to nothing better.
January 7, 2019
I’m sure we can all rely on Mr Bercow to support the amendment and others in this vein
January 7, 2019
āThere seem to be no limits to the extreme actions these MPs want to take to thwart the will of UK voters.ā
Quite. There will be various actions from a number of individual MPs and groups to make a clean break at the end of March very difficult.
If that does prove to be the case, then an early general election would at least enable voters to get some payback.
January 7, 2019
Well judging by the comments so far John it looks as though we are all feeling the same way over the despicable going’s on in parliament by MPs in all parties. What we are seeing is a deliberate act of trashing the democratic rights of the people. I thought it was bad enough in other dictatorships but by God, we are fast joining them. Cable leaves a bad taste in the mouth just as Clegg did before him. To use the NHS as a levering tool in this disgusting act is beyond contempt. I suppose he will then go on to say that any problems experienced in the NHS after this will be down to Brexit. Parliament voted to come out. The people voted to come out and this is what MUST happen. Our standing in the world as a democracy will be trashed and how then can we even begin to try and persuade other countries that this is the way to go. I never thought I would be living in something close to a dictatorship. There is going to be trouble in this country soon and it will be of parliaments making. Legally the courts should be on the side of the people for having their rights stripped from them. Pass me the nearest bucket!
January 7, 2019
My comment still awaiting moderation? I don’t see why. It’s no worse than the others.
January 7, 2019
Radio 4 todsy said falls in the Sales of diesels was the ‘driving force’ behind falls in car sales. Thai in the outcome the driving force is idiotic OTT government regulations on the car industry, on vehicle lending and threats to ban diesels in places. Why buy an expensive and often worse new car best to hold on and waitcand see.
January 7, 2019
I’m sure I read somewhere that all new cars in the EU will be electric or hybrid by 2022. So the outgoing manufacturing processes and the petrol/diesel paradigm is to be phased out – and this is being hidden behind anti-Brexit propaganda. All car manufacturers would likely take a hit if making such a three-point turn, strategy-wise.
January 7, 2019
Well how low can the Liberal party sink to. They are taking politics in the eyes of the electorate from the gutter into the sewer. Another politician dispute his perceived calm interviewing style has done three fifths of naff all for our country. What a joke the way he is dealing with all of this like some little spoilt child that cannot get his own way. May was always going to get the 200 odd on her side, they voted to keep here in post but for Cable to pull this stunt for that is what it is threatening the country with disruption of the NHS is in my book treasonable. Ffs Paddy Ashdown must be turning in his grave to see how low his beloved party has fallen.
January 7, 2019
Remainer MPs are going to peak derangement if they think obstructing the Government doing its business to get their way on the EU will be well received by the public.
January 7, 2019
So Dame Caroline Spelman has organised a letter by over 209 MPs to stop us leaving without a deal because she’s concerned about job losses. Well she didn’t worry about that when the eu poached our industries and jobs were lost. Some jobs will go and others will be created. It’s how the world works.
January 7, 2019
They are worried about the loss of additional lucrative jobs for themselves after Brexit as they will have to work for their MP’s salaries.
January 7, 2019
Before he opened his mouth Cable should have just thought about the damage he will do to his party. What a choice of ammunition he has given to those fighting for Liberal seats cometh the election. Hopefully this will go down as yet another nail in the coffin. No right minded honourable caring person would not want to be associated with him or his party.
January 7, 2019
Dear Mr. Redwood,
Well is this what our vote to leave the European Union is coming to?
A collection of failed Prime Ministers and former Party Leaders posing as senior statesmen plotting behind the scenes to thwart the Brexit vote. Scuttling back and forth to Brussels seeking to undermine the democratic process and conspire with those who wish to overturn the referendum result. The present incumbent, so blinkered in her desire to keep us shackled to the European Union, that she is blind to all other options. And one who, incredibly, has sought the advice of her predecessor who failed utterly in his own negotiations to secure a better deal for Britain.
We have a civil service so ingrained with pro-European bias that the thought of having to implement the policies and laws of a sovereign Britain is anathema to it.
Meanwhile up goes a chorus of ‘let MP’s take control of Brexit’ from the MP’s themselves. Some of the very same MP’s who were so dedicated to public service that several years ago they spent most of their precious time and effort devising new ways in which they could fleece the British taxpayer with their expense claims for second houses, duck houses and everything else in between. They are aided and abetted by Mr. Speaker who is an influential figure in the Brexit process but one who is mired in unsavoury allegations and rides around with a certain sticker on his car to the detriment of the impartial role of his privileged position.
Things are no better in the House of Lords where their lofty views of the European Union are so at odds with the base thoughts of the plebeians who were ‘duped’ into voted leave.
These titans of the people are so utterly convinced of their divine right to govern but are so lacking in their faith and courage in the British people. Completely bereft of vision and leadership are they that they see not a country that is the fifith-largest economy in the world standing on its own two feet but one so weak that it must remain forever tied to a foreign political construct in order to survive. The self-same organisation that has demonstrated nothing but contempt for Britain in these negotiations and, of course, one that overturned several countries’ democratic referendums that the people somehow did not get right.
Truly, we live in dangerous times if this self-serving bunch of hypocrites and time-servers (with notable exceptions of course) are given charge of Brexit proceedings.
January 7, 2019
I think most of us out here are getting absolutely fed up with politicians wanting to complicate everything in our lives to try and get their own ideals across.
Caroline Lucas of the Green’s I hear now suggests a meat tax would be a good idea, as it would help reduce the consumption of meat, which in turn would help the planet.
All this from a Party which has not got a clue as to how much it actually costs to build a house.
January 7, 2019
Alan Jutson
“All this from a Party which has not got a clue as to how much it actually costs to build a house.”
What sort of a house? A 2 bedroom maisonette or a 5 bedroom mansion?
January 7, 2019
Margaret
Ā£10,000 their leader quoted at the last election, it was pointed out at the time that, that sum would not build any sort of house, before they they then revised their figures in a panic, but still refused to put a price on it.
Yes I do know the answer, as I owned a design and Build Company before I retired.
January 7, 2019
They cannot even run a council. But hey, the people of Brighton like their new Utopia.
/sarc
January 7, 2019
“All this from a Party which has not got a clue as to how much it actually costs to build a house.” You could have omitted everything after ‘not got a clue’ and it’d be far more concise.
January 7, 2019
The governing bodies of the all parties should be taking a long hard look at how and who they are putting forward as potential MPs.
The world has moved on and the majority of what we have on the benches at the moment are not fit for purpose. This country cannot carry on maintaining the status quo as on the world stages we are looking pathetic with the lack of the right calibre of politicians
January 7, 2019
This doesn’t sound like a good way to gather public support for their cause … meanwhile, Theresa May told Andrew Marr:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/0601191.pdf
“Iāve always said that no deal is better than a bad deal.”
but then went on to say:
“What we have on the table is a good deal”.
So presumably if/when MPs show their disagreement with her claim by voting against it she will admit that she has got it wrong, and it would be better to have no deal …
I will just repeat, do not be deceived by any clever form of words, because once Parliament had agreed that we would remain subject to swathes of EU laws to satisfy:
a) the CBI and similar,
b) the Irish government, and
c) euromaniacs at the top of the Tory party,
hell would freeze over before the second, the Irish government, willingly allowed us to escape from under the EU’s economic thumb, AND THEY HAVE A VETO.
This is from November 2017:
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/11/26/the-irish-border-with-northern-ireland/#comment-903216
“On the TV this morning it was stated that the UK government is ādesperateā to move on to trade talks, but this would be vetoed by the Irish government unless the UK government committed to keeping the UK in both the Single Market and the Customs Union.”
That hasn’t changed, and there is little prospect that it will ever change.
January 7, 2019
I read here:
https://openeurope.org.uk/daily-shakeup/may-confirms-meaningful-vote-next-week/
“Elsewhere, The Times also reports that May will ask the EU to agree a 2021 deadline for the future relationship to be concluded, in order to convince MPs that the UK would not be held indefinitely in the Irish backstop. This comes after The Times last week reported that EU may provide assurances over the Irish backstop in the week ahead of the meaningful vote on the Brexit deal. These could include clarifications from the EU that the backstop is ānot the desired outcomeā or will āonly [last] for a short period.ā”
So what? The ‘backstop’ provision itself may never come into effect, or it may come into effect but only on a temporary basis, but the Irish government will insist that whatever alternative provision is made must have a similar legal effect and keep us under swathes of EU law in perpetuity. As Theresa May very well knows.
January 7, 2019
It isn’t yet available on the Hansard transcript, JR, but I think you were probably there when the minister Steve Barclay twice told MPs that any other deal with the EU would also require a ‘backstop’. If that is true now, why should we suppose that it will cease to be true at some point in the future?
January 7, 2019
She’s right, it is a good deal – for the EU !
January 7, 2019
If we could only see what is beyond 29 March and the new deals that are proposed then it might help- but so far zilch! Am back from the South East Asian countries only the last couple of months, after extensive travel, and can tell you they don’t understand, can’t understand what we’re at, not at all, how anyone would want to leave the richest biggest economic bloc on the planet for a leap in the dark- and that’s the problem?
January 7, 2019
Did you ask them why they don’t apply for membership?
January 7, 2019
Because they do not know what the EU is. It is a Federalist Supersate in the making. A political project which uses trade as both a stick (Customs Union) and lure, Single (read captive) Market.
January 8, 2019
Excellent point. I have been in the US, South Africa, Australia, India and China on business in the last few months. Every single person thinks we’re nuts to leave the EU. The common line is “why do you think we would bother with the UK on its own? sorry, but you are just not big enough”
January 8, 2019
Les Bourne, Don’t be silly – most nations on the planet have a smaller economy than the UK does, and I’m quite sure that China, the USA, etc “bother” about them.
January 7, 2019
It’s not merely ‘the will of the voters’ they are seeking to thwart. It’s the will of Parliament’s itself.
The Referendum was ‘advisory’. Parliament however voted to invoke Article 50. The House of Commons did so by a VERY big majority including a sizeable majority of Labour MPs, along with all but one Tory MP.
‘Fascist’ is an over-used term of abuse in politics.
But applying it to most Remainers and to nearly all Lib Dem MPs is entirely justified.
How for example can anyone describe someone like Tim Farron who votes to hold a Referendum but will only accept and act upon the result if he wins.
On the other hand it’s not clear what John Redwood means when he says ‘allow Parliament to implement the result of the People’s Vote of 2016.
Parliament has already done so by empowering the Crown to invoke Article 50 and in legislating for the Brexit Act. It doesn’t have to do anything else.
In a representative parliamentary democracy we are not governed by ‘the will of the voters’. We are governed by the independent judgement of the MPs whom voters elect to make decisions for us.
The chances are that if the Withdrawal Agreement is voted down in the House of Commons, Members will find some way of stopping Brexit altogether.
January 7, 2019
One can feel nothing but contempt for the likes of Blair, Clegg, Cable and Soubry whose respect for democracy is non-existent.
January 7, 2019
Mandelson, Patton, Major, Heseltine and all the rest of the BBC favourites.
January 7, 2019
John,
“There seem to be no limits to the extreme actions these MPs want to take to thwart the will of UK voters. ”
I can think of one; they won’t resign as a matter of principle
January 7, 2019
Of course not. And lose another 4 years on the public payroll for doing nothing.
January 7, 2019
Our democracy is a sham and our elected representatives are incompetent , ignorant and untrustworthy
We urgently need a new start
January 7, 2019
Totally agree. This is the one thing the referendum and actions by politicos before and after have highlighted for everyone to see in technicolor the total incompetence of our Parliament and their Civil Serpents.
January 7, 2019
May I suggest a people’s’ General Election ?
January 8, 2019
Wouldn’t make any difference, the same lobby fodder would turn up again in the HoC. Until the UK has nonpartisan primary elections nothing will change. The incumbents won’t change anything, the present set up is a nice little earner with the best pension plan in the country.
January 7, 2019
17m people out of a population of 66m is NOT a people’s vote but a travesty of democracy.
EXIT BREXIT!
January 7, 2019
Margaret Howard
“17m people out of a population of 66m is NOT a peopleās vote but a travesty of democracy.”
Well you know you can’t expect to overturn a democratic referendum if you couldn’t even be bothered to vote. That would not be democracy now would it.
I can only say this; Tough luck.
January 7, 2019
And 750,000 losers demanding a second vote is what exactly ?
January 7, 2019
MHoward. Yawn, yawn. Do give it a rest dear. Would you have said that if those were the figures for remain?
January 7, 2019
More cut n pasted nonsense.
Post properly or not at all margaret.
You green lib dems need to get a grip.
January 7, 2019
“17m people out of a population of 66m is NOT a peopleās vote but a travesty of democracy.”
16.1m people is even less.
Why post such nonsense?
January 7, 2019
17m voted Brexit.
50m did not or had no vote.
A travesty of democracy as is our undemocratic first past the post system which leaves millions disenfranchised.
Neither are fit for a 21st century democracy.
EXIT BREXIT!
January 8, 2019
Would you have tourists vote?
Babies toddlers ?
All under 18 year olds?
Those who are not UK citizens?
Ridiculous post from you margaret.
January 8, 2019
Not quite as ridiculous as this.
January 8, 2019
But very close to ridiculous then.
January 8, 2019
There is nothing wrong with FPTP – and it’s a darned sight better than any version of PR.
When I vote in a GE I want to know the person I’m voting for, rather than someone selected by some central organisation to get the position – That is not democracy.
January 8, 2019
Margaret.
You should really learn to add up.
You say the population is 66 million in your first post.
Then you say 17 million voted Leave and 50 million did not vote.
Thus you forgot the 16 million who voted remain.
Thus you have immediately increased the population from 66 million in your first post, to 83 million in your second post.
Come on, surely you are better than Dianne Abbott.
January 7, 2019
margaret
So you now want to include ALL of those under the age of 18, even 1 and 2 years old in the figures do you.
What a farce of an argument.
We actually had a 75% turn out of all those who had registered to vote, remain lost by over 1,000,000 to those who wanted to leave.
You really are grasping at straws !
January 7, 2019
Not all that 66m are of voting age.
Margaret, why do you come on here and make a complete embarrassment of yourself virtually every time ?
I truly pity you.
January 7, 2019
Only 16m gave approval of the EU.
Hardly a ringing endorsement of it – especially when told we were at threat of leaving if the result went a certain way.
January 7, 2019
Margaret Howard, What, Leave voters in 2016 were not people? Just think only 16.1m people out of a population of 66m could bring themselves to vote to remain serfs of your EU empire. Actually 17.4m Leave votes compared to 16.1 Remain votes is a healthy democratic win.
January 7, 2019
Remind me under what democratic mandate we entered the EU? I forget.
January 8, 2019
More people voted to leave in 2016 than voted to remain in 1975 – either they were both a travesty or both legitimate democratic decisions – which is it?
January 7, 2019
The proposed amendments to the finance bill by some remain MPs amounts to sabotage against the will of the people. They want to disrupt preparations for leaving under WTO terms – the very disruption they like to overblow and claim they are concerned about.
All along, remoaners have been aiming to make the worst of Brexit (rather than making the best of the new opportunities) but now they are at a new low. We don’t deserve such MPs.
January 7, 2019
Now this morning we hear that 209 MPs have written to the PM requesting she blocks what is wrongly quoted as a ”no-deal-Brexit”. So here we have 209 desperate souls trying to overturn the will of 17+million.
It is this sort of behaviour in parliament that has been going on for nearly three years that has caused the mess that we are now in. The PM added to this mess by screwing up the negotiations and is making it worse with her threats of the future.
Further more the WA is NOT an agreement for our future but a Rule Book as to when to pay Ā£39bn for nothing and start years of fruitless talks trying to get a trading arrangement with the EU. From the 30th March we have to be better off trading under WTO rules
January 7, 2019
Well said George
January 7, 2019
Today the BBC are flat out into project fear on their news programmes.
No sign of time being given to those who can explain trading under WTO rules. I am fed to the back teeth with this constant stream of propaganda filling our airwaves.
They and all the people for comment they drag from the political bubble can be labelled as those who have no respect for democracy however much they mouth mantras to the contrary. When the democratic system by which we live is brought into so much disrepute, expect serious trouble.
January 7, 2019
Theres a lot of desperate ‘will of the people’ nonsense being spoken here. The argument that you cannot have a second referendum is bogus. Votes can be overturned with other votes – this is commonplace and how our system works.
You could say May ‘challenged the will of the people’ by calling an early general election to change the outcome of the previous one.
The whole point is the ‘will of the people’ constantly changes. Now we have witnessed the shambolic approach this government had made of attempting to negotiate, and had completely contradictory statements from politicians like Jacob Rees Moss of leaving without negiotiating, simultaneously claiming its a good thing whilst at the same time blaming other for causing it (you cannot have it both ways, you dont blame someone for something that good) it is obvious to most holding a second referendum is an entirely reasonable thing to do.
January 8, 2019
If you had another similar outcome to the last referendum would you then call for a third referendum?
January 7, 2019
Threatening our NHS whilst showing contempt for democracy might be a new low from the man who in office sold off Royal Mail on the cheap and blighted a generation of students with tuition fee hikes. But in charity let us recall Mr. Cable knows he achieved his ambition of leading his party only because no-one else wanted the job, even the ineligible.
We must expect extremism from the quisling/remoaner crowd as the day of our Liberation approaches for of course they know their defeat is total once it arrives.
January 7, 2019
There was no one else left who could. Thanks to our esteemed PM he got his MP job back
January 7, 2019
Dear Sir John Redwood
There are indeed “No Limits” to which Remainer MPs- who dominate Parliament – will go to effectively stop any true Brexit happening at all: The Amendment to the Finance Bill- aimed at stopping the Government collecting taxes and spending money unless Theresa May gets a Deal that most MPs agree on (or delays the date Britain leaves the EU) is due to be voted on tomorrow; further such Brexit Wrecking amendments are due to be voted on (and as things stand, are certain to pass in the coming weeks). The proposed Amendment to the Finance Bill (and suggestions of other anti- Brexit Amendments) has been widely known since 18th December and I am aghast that you and your colleagues in the ERG- who should be at the front-line of trying to ensure a proper Brexit that respects the result of the 2016 EU Referendum actually happens- have not appreciated the gravity of these threats.
As one who voted on 23rd June 2016 to be FREE from all the strictures and jurisdiction of the European Union I hope that you read this TODAY- before the first of these crucial Amendments get voted on- as I am sure they will because the Speaker, John Bercow is a paid- up Remainer. Drastic action needs to be taken to frighten these militant Remainer Conservative MPs out of what they are planning- with their confrontation with the threat of bringing about their de-selection and putting a Brexiteer in as a Conservative Candidate to fight in a General Election that you (and the ERG) would vote with Labour to precipitate in a “Vote of No Confidence” in Theresa May’s Government.
The subsequent General Election should be fought by the Conservatives with a Brexiteer in charge on a popular pro- growth WTO “No Deal” Brexit platform. With the Conservatives still ahead in the polls despite Theresa May at the helm and a Brexit dog’s dinner- I’m sure that with a Popular pro-Brexit platform the Conservatives will win.
However, a direct confrontation with the Militant Remainer Conservatives- and the Speaker (with the threat of a Brexiteer Conservative standing in his Buckingham Seat if he continues with his biased conduct) might just dampen their enthusiasm for undermining the current minority Conservative Government. But you should not be afraid to confront them and you have 24 hours to ensure that they get the message!
I apologise for labouring this point, Sir but these anti-Brexit Amendments will have a more serious impact on 29th March than Theresa May’s “Deal”- likely to be voted down. They need to be fought and those minded to vote for the Amendments need to be strong- armed into not doing so.
I have written letters to several leading ERG MPs last week to give them the Strategy that I suggested that you follow to deal with this Remainer threat. I have e-mailed the Speaker and four of the militant Remainer Conservatives (with a C.c to their local Conservative Associations) requesting that they pull the Amendments and that they should face de-selection if they continue trying to stop Brexit. As one who voted to Leave myself, I recognise the threats these proposed Amendments are to a Brexit that is in more than just name and I want those who in positions of influence to stop these Amendments happening to do something sufficient to bring about that outcome.
Yours Sincerely,
Ian Pennell
(nr. Alston, Cumbria)
January 7, 2019
Its off topic, but of interest.
The UK media, definitely the TV channels are anti-Brexit, and the newspapers split.
The Daily Mail has a change of Editor and is no longer Pro-Brexit.
A big BUT, the readership and its views have not changed.
Commenting on anti-brexit articles they get hammered and pro-brexit cheered to the roofs.
January 7, 2019
There’s a divine irony affecting the two great ‘liberal’ democracies – the ‘enlightened’ having changed it’s meaning, like many other words in recent times.
‘Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!’
January 7, 2019
Fully agree it is what it looks, desperate and fanatical and damaging to the Remain cause. Think because of the implications it wonāt pass. However amendment stopping money being spent on No Deal preparations will in my opinion pass. For those folks advocating a second Peopleās vote to try and overturn the last one what exactly do they expect us to do if such a vote results in a Leave victory again. Surely they should be insisting we should prepare for that eventuality unless of course the intention would be to keep Leave in any real meaning of the term off the ballot paper.
Next step we need that deal not just defeated but by a huge majority. Some cabinet big beasts who fancy a tilt at the leadership may get jittery at then ramming such an unpopular deal through with multiple votes.
January 7, 2019
Hear! Hear!Forward for freedom”the readiness is all”
January 7, 2019
The big difference between the first vote and a second vote is two and a half years time difference and of course the inbetween debate on the whole thing
January 7, 2019
The Limp Dumbs who fought the election as the party of “IN”. that turned out well for them.
Yesterday May was on Marr, I had to mute the TV because I couldn’t take anymore of her lies.
I think even Marr was embarrassed with herdroning on.
January 7, 2019
It’s not just Lib Dems .
It’s Conservatives including Oliver Letwin and Nicky Morgan .
Oliver Letwin has been pulling the strings and deciding Govt policy for years – the go between delivering the banking industries instructions to the executive .
January 7, 2019
What has happened to the Lib Dems since David Steel was their leader? A credible and honourable MP has been replaced by a succession of less dignified persons. Some of whom have defied democracy, which makes their current Party name, absurd and surely an offence under the Trade Descriptions Act?.
January 7, 2019
The Dims want to ignore the will of the British people and prefer for us to be ruled over by unelected foreigners like Juncker and Tusk. If the Tories betray Brexit they will end up as irrelevant as the Lib Dims.
January 7, 2019
Sounds very like PM May’s Conservative Party…
January 9, 2019
Like Cameron and Heath before her.
January 7, 2019
Shows how much they care about anything ..except their own political power and gain.
I say…Welfare State …Bah Humbug. Worst thing that ever happened to this country.
January 7, 2019
Vince Cable, in his frenzy to ensure we remain serfs of the EU, will tear down the country such is his fanaticism. He is not alone. We know who they are because they have no shame in promoting their anti-democratic, Quisling notions.
Before the Referendum everyone knew what Leave meant, even the Remain campaign. Since then the Remain fanatics like Cable have renamed Leave “a cliff-edge, hard Brexit no-deal” in order to make it unpalatable. They have convinced only themselves. But they think that is everybody.
The 2016 Referendum had two deals: David Cameron’s re-negotiated EU membership (called Remain); or abrogating all particular EU treaties (called Leave). Our establishment, guided by the Remains, has ignored our choice, indeed ignored the Referendum entirely, and are now deciding on one of three tactics:
1. Retract Art50, trash Cameron’s renegotiation, and continue with ever closer subjugation;
2. Abrogate the existing EU treaties, and sign up to new treaties to nearly the same effect (Mrs May’s deal);
3. A “second” referendum with a rigged Remain question to obliterate the 2016 vote, and supposedly justify their Remain outcome.
The whole sorry traitorous bunch – from Cable, Adonis, Blair, etc, to May – don’t seem to think beyond next week. Why do they suppose that Leave voters will trust them to run a second referendum, or even a government, again? Ever? The answer is we’re not going to.
January 7, 2019
Apparently Ms Nicky Morgan (MP, Tory) supports this manoeuvre, according to the Daily Telegraph.
January 7, 2019
Listening to Theresa Villiers being interviewed on Sky this morning, she thinks that not alone can the Backstop be revisited but that the whole WA should be renegotiated including the 39 billion which we should refuse to pay in total u less we get a good deal from them..completely bonkers crazy stuff- no wonder our negotiating position is in tatters..has been in tatters
January 7, 2019
How has it come about that nearly a third of our elected representatives in Parliament are not only prepared to accept any deal which the EU chooses to offer, however bad, but even think it is a good idea to advertise their willingness to capitulate?
January 7, 2019
Denis
During the 2008 economic crash I heard the term, “Bathing without a swimsuit.” Especially, it refers to people whose modesty is kept in check by the tides of the sea. That is, until the tide goes out and those bathing, or being somewhat disposed, are shown for the fools they are.
Take your MP for example. Do you think that she is any good at her job as an MP ? Do you think that she is honest, trustworthy and up to the job ? Because I think you will find that, if the UK were indeed to Leave the EU then there will be a large number of MP’s who simply do not stand muster. Now, if you were one of those MP’s would you not be fighting for all your small worth to maintain the very comfortable status quo ?
January 8, 2019
@Mark B
My MP has always shown integrity, and has been good at the roles he took on.
I agree though that the integrity of some is questionable, and your point about the willingness and ability of some MP’s to accept that responsibility would once again fall on their shoulders to run the country.
Very few MP’s have been in Parliament long enough to know what that responsibility means, and yes, I suspect they have gotten used to Westminster having few powers to influence anything. If not already, it will be the case very soon, that Parliament is a mere conduit, a debating hall, and if we do not get out will quickly become a museum.
January 7, 2019
What the politicians fail to recognise is that Brexit is no longer about leaving the EU, but is now fundamentally about democracy.
Everyone aged 18 to 59 voted on EU for the first time. They voted to leave – not faff around negotiating deals. The politicians should not underestimate the discontent amongst voters.
The government petition āLeave the EU without a deal in 2019ā has now reached 306,000+ signatures and is top of the leader board. Only the Daily Express in the MSM has mentioned this petition in the last few days. The word about the petition was spread over social media and blog sites. Most of the MSM have failed to inform their readers/viewers.
There is some comfort to be drawn from another petition āMake Debates Happenā that has only attracted 135,000+ signatures despite the shameful lobbying by Sky News abusing their prominent position within the MSM. Will Sky News (and BBC News) now report on this other petition?
Until Brexit is completed at the end of March, any funding for the NHS cannot be set with certainty.
January 7, 2019
Old Person,
I think the majority of MPs know it is about democracy, it is their chance to crush democracy. Having done that turnouts will be low, internet/phone/mail and other dodgy forms of voting will be encouraged, voting age will be reduced and a list of children will conveniently vote for the required candidates. The action of these MPs and others w.r.t. the Finance Bill merely confirms that this is an intentional attack on democracy. The very fact that the PM herself will not stand up for the results of the people’s vote of 2016 and leave, prepared under WTO terms at the end of March is the same intentional act against democracy.
January 7, 2019
87 lorries at Ā£550 per driver.
That is the cost of the Tory Brexit pensioner planned traffic jam.
Failing Grayling has surpassed himself.
And you all complain that that the EU wastes money.
January 7, 2019
You spend half your time moaning brexit needs planning and organising then the other half complaining when it happens.
Cheaper than a Ā£39 billion one off give away.
January 7, 2019
or the daily gross Ā£350M or net Ā£150M whichever way you want to count it
January 7, 2019
Brexit needs axing.
Though I find it comical that the Tories canāt even organise a traffic jam properly.
It is like a real life Dadās Army isnāt it?
We are laughing at you. Not with you. At you.
Not just me and millions of patriotic remainers, but 3 million EU citizens here, a million Brits there and millions of young people who were denied a say in their future but who now live in little more than a Brexit Banana Republic.
Except, of course, as one leading Leaver told the Huff Post after March 29 the Brexit banana republic might not even have bananas.
Who needs satire?
January 8, 2019
I see your posts getting more hysterical as March 29th gets closer andy.
It is fun to watch.
January 8, 2019
Quote “….patriotic remainers ā¦.”
A contradiction in terms unless you consider yourself an EU citizen rather than a British subject .
BTW , I think it’s time ordinary Britons were promoted from subjects to citizens .
January 7, 2019
30th March 2019 and, possibly, freedom cannot come soon enough. And I don’t just mean the EU. š
January 7, 2019
We know how it goes from French disputes (Operation Stack… whilst in the EU !) There was no need to do this.
January 7, 2019
more top down dictats coming from the NHS flying in the face of the experts in the entire rest of the developed world. frankly they should have their money cut. give the money to the patients and let the NHS rot in hell. promising luxury cars but delivering the trabants of healthcare.
transforming it to a state backed insurance, where patients take the payouts where they like would be a massively popular policy with real people if the liberal elite and press were ignored, just needs someone with gumption to set this stuff out.
really tired that nobody in poltical life will state the obvious that the NHS has no clothes, and that top down allocated and rationed services will never be optimal.
So yea even if its unintentional I am all for cutting NHS budgets, they waste most of it anyways. I was not put on this earth to fund that bunch of useless overheads on society.
January 7, 2019
In the case of old political dinosaurs aka Cable ‘an ol man has to do what an ol man has to do’ unfortunately he only has 12 like minded peeps behind him…
January 7, 2019
Captain Peacock
“The Dims want to ignore the will of the British people and prefer for us to be ruled over by unelected foreigners like Juncker and Tusk.
You are obviously unaware that from 1999-2016 the UK voted against the EUs laws 56 times & voted YES to the EUs laws & ammendments 2,644 times!
We got what we wanted 96% of the time!
Ruled over by unelected foreigners?
January 7, 2019
meps have no powers to stop laws introduced by the ussr style polutburo the EU Commission.
Especially when the UK has one vote in 28 and recentky reduced powers under QMV
Its a non democratic stich up.
January 8, 2019
Edward2
“Especially when the UK has one vote in 28”
Seeing that the UK is one of 28 members of the bloc that seems quite reasonable to me. Do you think we should get more than anybody else because we are more ‘special’ than the other members?
January 8, 2019
Yes I do.
It should be based on money paid into the EU.
One Euro one vote.
January 7, 2019
They ought to spend a bit of time listening to Lord Owen, he is one of theirs. Good job there are only 10 of them in Parliament.
They will look extremely foolish when the Euro default sh** storm takes hold now the ECB have by all accounts stopped printing money for countries to fund their deficits.
January 7, 2019
Why do MPs and SkyNews staff deliberately walk and stand in front of a group of shouting people and complain theyy can’t speak properly for all the noise?
January 7, 2019
Exactly. No referendum has ever failed to be implemented. if they want to revisit the issue, implement the decision, see how it works out and then come back if necessary.
I’m not sure how they think this can work. By the time the money is due we’d have about 1-2 months before Brexit, it’s difficult to see how anyone would run out of money in that time.
And the government could simply borrow if necessary.
This is more posturing than a real threat. One which could backfire badly on them.
January 7, 2019
LibDems are going to cut off something? It doesn’t surprise me.
January 8, 2019
It is strange. How things turn out.
I believe it was the artist Andy Warhole. He made a movie which seemd to last for ever of a block of apartments or offices in America. Just to see.
We should all watch.
January 8, 2019
In case there is any lingering doubt about how disastrous remaining in the EU will be, consider the implications of the EU evolving into a full blown Federal European SuperState, with its own army.
The USA is a fully formed Federal State. US Federal expenditure is $4.4 trillion or 21% of GDP. Of this, $886 billion or 4.1% of GDP is military expenditure. Expect EU expenditure to rise towards these levels over time.
These big Federal States are a menace. They are polyglot and multi-cultural, with no natural internal cohesion. Their sense of nationhood, such as it is, is derived from the ability to bully their neighbours. The USA, Russia, China and India are all members of this unattractive club. We don’t want another one.
January 8, 2019
Perhaps later this year Parliament can debate this question: does the Commons have too much power vis a vis the government? I’m beginning to think that it now does.
January 8, 2019
I see the idiots have put in an amendment to the Finance Bill.
If we are unprepared, who will get the blame?
How do they think the electorate will react to this kind of behaviour?
January 8, 2019
By the way, I understand that JR supported May in the leadership election / coronation.
I’d be interested t know:
(a) Is that correct?
(b) If so, why?
Reply Untrue