Remain appeals to democracy whilst disagreeing with its findings

Remain loses the EU referendum so demands a second one.

Remain loses the vote in  the Commons to hold a second referendum, so proposes to demand another vote in the Commons on it sometime and carry on campaigning for it.

Remain lose various votes in the Commons to keep us in the single market and customs union, so demand more votes on the same thing

Remain loves democracy only when the vote goes their way.

168 Comments

  1. ferdinand
    March 16, 2019

    I have nasty felling that this a reflection on the calibre of some of the current MPs.

    1. Hope
      March 16, 2019

      May’s servitude plan was voted down twice by the largest margin in political history. The EU state it will not change the servitude plan. May has not changed it and tried to deceive on two previous occasions she had. There were no legal changes to the backstop and it was not replaced as demanded by parliament through them ready amendment.

      Therefore it is clear under current parliamentary rules it should not be brought back for consideration. Parliament knew this when it voted to take no deal off the table. But a motion does not overrule law. The motion also defies what the public voted for in the referendum.

      If anyone is tupid enough to vote for her deal do not be surprised she will stay for the other capitulation to talk about trade as the EU will speed things up to make sure she is the UK “negotiator”. Why wouldn’t they after her servitude plan. I am still lost why the UK is expected to pay £100 billion to the EU with the ECJ deciding exactly how much themUK should pay and will and will arbitrate in any despite! Who would agree to that over than traitor May!

      I am not sure why I am reading McVey is changing her mind when asking people to walk for the leave March?

      Vote down Mays servitude plan. For those wavering remind yourself a treaty lasts forever. Parliament will not.

  2. Anonymous
    March 16, 2019

    Remain smears everybody on the Leave side.

    They keep calling us racists when there is no evidence of any such thing. You’d think the tragedy in New Zealand this week had happened in the UK. Armed police patrolling mosques.

    Remain use scurrilous lies to defame 17.5 million people and to nullify their votes. We are patient, peaceful and tolerant despite intense provocations.

    Clearly, the use of the ballot box is not respected and the message out here has been heard loudly and clearly.

    1. Lifelogic
      March 17, 2019

      A presenter on LBC the other day suggested we should not call the “traitors” in parliament “traitors”… “particulary in the light of events in the last 48 hours” in a pathetic attempt to suppress free speech on LBC.

      What on earth has using such language got to do with the appalling events in New Zealand? They clearly are traitors & quislings and should be described as such at every oportunity.

      “a potent failure of parliament’s collective failure” says the pathetic Theresa May – no dear it would be a failure of yourself and Hammond’s appalling remainer socialism & total dishonesty. Brexit and the will of the people meant sweet FA to May & Hammond.

  3. Alex Reeve
    March 16, 2019

    Succinct and well observed. Keep battling on Mr Redwood.

  4. Merlin
    March 16, 2019

    Dear John,

    please stop being so tribal. I am a Remainer. I passionately believe in democracy.

    If you try to look at it from the other side. While you are very clear on what you think Brexit means, I can tell you as a Remainer, it seems there are a lot of different views.

    The very fact that parliament is so fragmented shows there is no majority for any alternative. Democracy requires a majority to work. Currently we face a situation where about:
    52% want to leave
    49% of people want to remain
    44% want no deal
    This is very difficult, as Leave has a majority over Remain, but Remain has a majority over No deal among the people.

    I don’t know what the answer is, but Remaining isn’t democratic, but neither is No Deal. Neither is having a vote among Leavers only. So I’m afraid it’s all no, no, no at the moment.

    Also, a second referendum while hateful, may be the only way to unite this country again – though I have absolutely no idea what the question would be.

    1. Dominic
      March 16, 2019

      Leave won the democratic vote. That’s the only FACT you need to consider. Your views are absolutely insignificant to that one simple , undeniable FACT

      Accept Leave won the democratic vote, accept democracy and all that it is and move on

      1. L Jones
        March 16, 2019

        Yes, Dominic. Why is that one simple fact so difficult for remainers to grasp?

        I am sure that if the referendum result gone the other way, we wouldn’t be arguing about anything. This is, I believe, because generally leavers are the sort of people who genuinely believe that democracy must be observed, and accepted the result. We’d have been sad and sorry but resigned.

        Remainers may have been as accepting, had they been left alone, but were whipped up by unprincipled people, and were weak enough to allow it.

        1. Henry Carter
          March 17, 2019

          No remainer disagrees that leave won in 2016. But it is now 2019. Many of the things that leave said would happen have not happened, and will not happen. What is wrong with having a new vote? That is how democracy works.

          1. Tad Davison
            March 17, 2019

            Another self-deluded remainer. And the mess we have now is entirely because remainers have kicked the can down the road and tried every trick in the book to stop Brexit happening.

            People like you wonder how the people can ever be brought back together. Let me tell you that being cheated makes Leavers very bitter and angry indeed. I’m one that won’t forget the lying conniving remain lobby any time soon, if ever. It is a personal affront as well as an affront to our democracy!

          2. anon
            March 17, 2019

            Lets leave without a deal with the EU first. We dont want any new “EU chains” thankyou.

            Then when a decent interval has passed maybe.

            Those proposing will need to gain a popular mandate stating they are EU federalists, instead of pretending to be Leavers.

            Now that would be democracy.

            Not the EU/May/establishment way of obfuscate, conflate,delay,delay and make them vote again until you get the right answer.

            Europe owes the UK “again” for highlighting the “totalalitarian nature of the EU and its corrupting influence on individual state democracy and freedoms.

          3. matthu
            March 17, 2019

            “Many of the things that leave said would happen have not happened…”

            You mean, like … um … leaving?

            “What is wrong with having a new vote? That is how democracy works.”

            No it’s not. First we leave. Then we wait a generation. Then we consider having a new vote. All in accordance to what we were promised and also in accordance with every known precedent.

            Tad: “I’m one that won’t forget the lying conniving remain lobby any time soon, if ever. It is a personal affront as well as an affront to our democracy!”

            Well said!

          4. rose
            March 17, 2019

            That is not how democracy works: the decision of one vote has to be implemented before the next vote is held.

      2. Merlin
        March 17, 2019

        I’m not arguing about the result of the referendum.

        I’m arguing that No Deal does not have the support of the country behind it.

        So, to use your words, why can Leavers not grasp this single fact?

        1. Edward2
          March 17, 2019

          Because some in Parliament want to remain and some others do not like this terrible WA.

        2. DaveK
          March 17, 2019

          Because it is not a fact. It is conjecture based upon flawed polling.

    2. Sir Joe Soap
      March 16, 2019

      When we voted Leave, we deserved a Leave PM to Leave.
      We got an incompetent Remainer.
      That was the only problem.

      As Janet Daley says in the Telegraph, turn this on its head then. Stay in and be the monster of the EU. A thousand Farage at their gates causing it to either become a trade organisation again or break up.

      1. Richard
        March 16, 2019

        British MEPs in Europe will embolden populists across the failing bloc: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/15/delayed-brexit-will-disastrous-eu/ Does the EU really want a furious, mobilised UK as a recalcitrant member? Is the long extension a mirage?

    3. Stred
      March 16, 2019

      Overturning the first referendum and breaking the written promises would lead to civil strife, you bloody idiot.

    4. Andy
      March 16, 2019

      The question was put and the answer was given: LEAVE. You cannot Leave a little. Leave means to leave the EU entirely, not remain in the Customs Union because the EU is a Customs Union.

      And Dominic is right: if you accepted democracy you would accept the result. That means wholly and without equivocation, qualification and prevarication. After all would you have accepted ‘compromise’, equivocation and qualification had Remain won ? No you wouldn’t.

      1. Tad Davison
        March 17, 2019

        Makes sense. This cannot surely be the Andy who talks to much crap! Can you add an appendage to your name please to differentiate you from the other one?

        Tad

    5. Stephen O
      March 17, 2019

      The referendum result determined we should leave the EU and that leave did not include remaining in the customs union, remain is not an option for a democracy. So the only democratic choice left is what kind of leave. I would prefer to leave with a better deal than the Prime Ministers but if she has maneuvered events such that it is a binary choice between her deal and no deal I would choose no deal.

      There would have been no compromise if there had been a vote to remain in the referendum.

    6. Mark B
      March 17, 2019

      . . . I can tell you as a Remainer, it seems there are a lot of different views.

      To turn this on its head, please tell me what does Remain in the EU mean to you ?

    7. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      Merlin, There were no different views on leaving the EU treaties at the time of the Referendum. Despite what Remains like you now speciously claim I can detect no change on the voted question on the Leave side now. Theresa May is a Remain, not a Leave. We are in this mess because the Remain establishment is attempting to overturn our Leave decision.

    8. David Price
      March 17, 2019

      Remainers made the issue tribal by insulting and slandering Leave voters as aged, uneducated, rascists. Subsequent to the referendum they have tried their utmost to derail, delay, damage and dilute our leaving and don’t deserve any special consideration whatsoever, no matter what pretend veneer of pretended reasonableness they adopt, you reap what you sow.

      The referendum made no statement of a deal, simply to leave the EU, reinforced by statements from the Prime Minister and Chancellor as to having to leave the Single Market and Customs Union.

      People in the majority voted on that basis so there is clearly a democratic mandate for leaving with no deal and no democratic mandate whatsoever to remain in the EU in any shape or form.

    9. Tad Davison
      March 17, 2019

      You say you believe in democracy. That is hard to swallow. It seems you believe in democracy just as long as it suits your cause. This parliament does not reflect the result of the 2016 referendum. It’s time we got one that does. One that works for ‘out’ not one that seeks to keep us in by whatever sneaky underhanded means they can.

  5. villaking
    March 16, 2019

    Sir John,
    Within the bounds of parliamentary democracy, what is your proposed solution? As you know, parliament has voted down the WA that would take us out of the EU and it has indicated that it emphatically does not want to leave on your preferred terms, the WTO exit. As a lover of democracy, I’m sure you respect this. So where do we go next? Should you choose to respond to this, I respectfully ask that the response be a little more imaginative than repeating that law says that we exit on March 29th etc. We know that, but you also know the democratic forces of parliament will almost certainly prevent that happening now that Mrs May has agreed to respect the democratic will of parliament and seek an extension.

    Reply Parliament has twice legislated for my solution which should not now be amended.

    1. Richard
      March 16, 2019

      Sir John has pointed out that Parliament cannot ‘take control’. It is Mrs May & some Cabinet ministers that are the problem.

    2. Lynn Atkinson
      March 16, 2019

      I love that word ‘LEGISLATED’ – we are nearly there!

    3. Tad Davison
      March 17, 2019

      ‘you also know the democratic forces of parliament will almost certainly prevent that happening’

      You have a funny sense of what constitutes democracy! This is a ‘leave’ parliament that is trying by whatever underhanded means and chicanery to stop Brexit, against the majority as expressed in the 2016 referendum.

      This is why we need a new untainted parliament. I can’t wait to see the back of remainer MPs and I’m hopeful the public will now see them for the charlatans they truly are. A plague on all their houses!

      1. Tad Davison
        March 17, 2019

        * Should read: This is not a ‘leave ‘ parliament and is trying by whatever means…… (apologies for any confusion. That’s what comes of posting via a mobile phone and watching the football at the same time).

        Tad

  6. Ian wragg
    March 16, 2019

    Brussels handbook. Keep voting till you get the right result. May is using the same tactic.

    1. Richard
      March 16, 2019

      The Remain side maintain a spreadsheet that shows how each MP voted in MV1 & MV2. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ktqCioirDDTRnnWd-1WHuA-7mvjuA5C3rTTrYpZ7mkA/edit#gid=0 Still a big majority against MV3.

    2. margaret howard
      March 16, 2019

      Ian wragg

      “Brussels handbook. Keep voting till you get the right result. May is using the same tactic.”

      Wrong. When people vote it down find out why and adjust it until it is accepted by the majority. It’s called democracy for the people rather than special interest groups of dubious intentions.

      1. Edward2
        March 17, 2019

        It is very kind of the new elite to allow us peasants to still have a vote.

        After 2020 voting will become even more of an irrelevance as the lack of a national veto and further qualified majority voting kicks in for member nations under Lisbon treaty terms.
        One vote in 28 with 9 paying in and the rest taking out.
        Power held by the Presidents the Council and especially the Commission with even more remote citizens of Europe just voting for MEPs who have group together in power blocs with little real power.
        The EU should adopt a new slogan.
        We know what’s best for you, do as you are told.

        1. Tad Davison
          March 17, 2019

          Well said. She gets more worrying with every post she writes! Wasn’t it Stalin who so loved useful idiots?

          Tad

          1. Edward2
            March 17, 2019

            Indeed Tad
            I am a great believer in democracy and that is the main reason I dislike the EU.
            I do feel that the UK needs reforms but we can start that process once we are independent.

      2. NickC
        March 17, 2019

        Margaret Howard, Wrong. There was no discernible difference between the “Constitution” and Lisbon (I have a copy of both). The EU either ignores our votes, by-passes our votes, or makes us vote again. As your inimitable J-C Juncker explained: “If it’s a Yes, we will say ‘on we go’, and if it’s a No we will say ‘we continue’.” Do keep up with your own heroes.

  7. Stephen Priest
    March 16, 2019

    Classic EU democracy – keep voting until you get the answer you want.

    I suppose it’s a variation of “vote early and vote often”

    I found it very depressing.

    I can’t understand why Leave MPs are considering voting for the Withdrawal Agreement.
    The must know it’s not Brexit. It’s intended destination is the same as all the other
    Brexit In Name Only Remain options, a non voting member of the EU.

    If Brexit is betrayed by extending Article 50 by a long time, the betrayal will be there for the
    whole country to see. As the BBC and others keep calling the Withdrawal Agreement
    “Theresa May’s Brexit Deal” a lot of people who don’t follow these things closely might
    think it’s some sort of Brexit.

    1. Sir Joe Soap
      March 16, 2019

      Ecoutez! On a besoin de “Mille Farages”…
      “En marche” maintenant de Sunderland…

    2. Rhoddas
      March 17, 2019

      It’s actually a fake Brexit cooked up by EU and supplicant PM/Cabinet orifice.
      No taxation without representation.

      Visualise this impact, with EU encroaching on ALL aspects of our laws/life/taxes eventually we would merely need regional assemblies and likely a united Ireland would result from the chaos. The disused UK Houses of Parliament would be relegated to just a theme / tourist attraction where schoolchildren would visit to see where democracy was last performed, have their fotos/videos taken at the Despatch Box and uploaded to social media. Then they would trundle off to the EU buildings in Bruxelles to see where the unelected elite would now make all our laws.

      The ignominy of this would be manifest and our PM, this Government and HoC/HoL would be consigned to the history books for generations on how to cede power, how NOT to regain our independence and be incapable of negotiating a fair Free Trade Agreement with another entity. It really does beggar belief!

      1. Tad Davison
        March 17, 2019

        We in the UK are almost hog-tied by the EU. The sedatives were given and ropes have been placed around our ankles. We now need to struggle to our feet and break free whilst we still can, before they bind us so closely, only civil insurrection will wrest this nation from its grasp.

        This parliament with the Prime Minister at its head is an instrument of a dangerous undemocratic monolith that threatens to subsumed this nation in perpetuity. I’ll back anybody who makes a stand against it and calls it out for what it is.

        Tad

    3. margaret howard
      March 18, 2019

      Stephen Priest

      “Classic EU democracy – keep voting until you get the answer you want”

      What’s the difference between that and Mrs May going for a 3rd ‘meaningful’ vote?

      1. NickC
        March 18, 2019

        Margaret Howard, None. Because she is a Remain PM following the example of her masters in Brussels.

  8. Kevin
    March 16, 2019

    Remain appears to be very goal-orientated. Please be the same for the next two weeks.

  9. margaret howard
    March 16, 2019

    “Remain loses the EU referendum so demands a second one.”

    “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

    Nigel Farage

    1. Timaction
      March 16, 2019

      It’s called democracy and you lost. Get over it!

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      March 16, 2019

      Margaret, if remain had won that would have been the end of it. Remainders are like children who cannot accept they have lost

    3. jane4brexit
      March 17, 2019

      If calculated as the number of voters voting Leave v Remain then almost 8% more voted Leave than Remain.

    4. Anonymous
      March 17, 2019

      I didn’t vote for Nigel Farage in 2016.

    5. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      Margaret Howard, There is a world of difference between discarding a Remain win and, on the other hand, simply continuing to believe that Leave is the best. As it turned out, it is the other way round, so you are perfectly entitled (as Mr Farage pointed out) to continue to campaign for Remain. And I support your – and others – right to do just that. But not to overturn Leave.

  10. JOHN FINN
    March 16, 2019

    A Question:

    I keep reading that Theresa May could revoke Article 50 – and this is probably true since any ruling on Article 50 is down to the EU/ECJ. But what exactly would this mean? The UK Parliament has passed the Withdrawal Act, i.e. a law which states that the UK is leaving (on March 29th). Surely May can’t simply repeal an Act unilaterally.

    I know that the date in the Act is amendable so if her intention was to cancel Brexit then I’m assuming, she would need to seek an extension which gave sufficient time for the Act to be repealed before finally revoking Article 50. There are probably other combinations which would work but she can’t very well seek an extension to Article 50 if Article 50 has already been revoked.

    Can anyone clarify this for me?

    1. Sir Joe Soap
      March 16, 2019

      Technically she has to ask for an extension but can revoke unilaterally. Therefore she’s in the hands of the EU. As are we all until she goes.

      1. NickC
        March 17, 2019

        Sir Joe Soap, I don’t believe that Theresa May could revoke Art50 unilaterally (ie: by prerogative). To do so would change our rights and obligations. Therefore, since the Miller case it would require a vote in Parliament to revoke Art50, just as it required a vote to invoke it. Perhaps JR could confirm or refute that?

    2. Andy
      March 16, 2019

      I believe that Article 50 was triggered by an Act of Parliament (although correctly until the Supreme Court muddied the waters, it was Prerogative) so could only be ‘revoked’ by another Act of Parliament. She wouldn’t get that through.

      Mrs May can introduce a new bill to amend the Withdrawal Act or she can (under the terms of the Act) introduce a Statutory Instrument to amend the date. The UK cannot unilaterally extend Article 50, but can only do so with the EUs agreement. We can revoke Article 50 unilaterally. But Article 50 ceases to be of any consequence after 29th March.

  11. Alan Jutson
    March 16, 2019

    How about holding another vote on No Deal in the HOC as it would seem from reports that many Mp’s were confused, and did not know what they were voting for.

  12. Denis Cooper
    March 16, 2019

    We know that, JR, but our problem is how to get the best outcome when your party has supplied a liar, cheat, hypocrite and traitor to lead us out of the EU, and she has been colluding with the Irish government in their efforts to build an insurmountable mountain out of a molehill on the border so that they can keep us under the economic thumb of the EU in perpetuity. Why not ask your colleague Marcus Fysh about it?

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/03/10/fighting-fewer-wars-is-a-good-idea/#comment-1001730

    It is a long time, nearly sixteen months, since I posted this:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/11/26/the-irish-border-with-northern-ireland/#comment-903216

    “So we should now say that rather than kowtow to the stupid destructive intransigence of the EU we will fall back on WTO trade rules and only seek agreements on the practical or technical aspects of continuing trade.”

    Yet here we are with our Prime Minister still supplicating the EU for some minor change, or now just a form of words, to make her deal appear more acceptable.

    1. Anonymous
      March 17, 2019

      We only need a border in this sense – people cannot claim citizenship of the UK simply by crossing it.

    2. matthu
      March 17, 2019

      Yet here we are with our Prime Minister still supplicating the EU for some minor change, or now just a form of words, to make her deal appear more acceptable.

      I wonder how parliament would vote if the amendment took into account the extra sum that will be extracted out of us (up front) by the EU for the privilege of delaying Brexit?

  13. Brian Tomkinson
    March 16, 2019

    They clearly are disciples of the anti-democratic EU.

  14. Steve P
    March 16, 2019

    Nothing except leave on the 29th will stop the far right claiming and organising activists from all wings that support democracy. It is going to get nasty I am afraid. Treachery is the worst of crimes.

  15. Horatio
    March 16, 2019

    Remain will have to be put in its place soon. Patriots are getting organised.

  16. NickW
    March 16, 2019

    It would appear that a large number of MPs are now changing their minds about what they think they want as often as they change their socks.

    Time after time MPs are casting votes which are incompatible with what they previously voted for; time after time a subsequent vote impedes the implementation of the previous one.

    Vote for the referendum, massive majority, then refuse to accept the result.
    Vote for Article 50, massive majority, then dedicate the next two+ years voting to undo Article 50.

    Vote to take No Deal off the table, in the absence of a deal and the presence of legislation which make leaving without a deal inevitable.

    Parliament has retreated inside its Westminster bubble and is now so engaged in internecine squabbles that it is unconscious of the effects and feelings its actions are bringing about in the rest of the Country and the rest of the World.

    There are Conservative MPs so determined to kill Brexit off that they are blind to the fact that the dagger will have Conservative fingerprints all over it, whilst Labour has the handy alibi that they weren’t in Government. The Conservatives will never, ever, be forgiven, and that goes for the individuals concerned as well as the Party..

    England expects Conservative MPs to get off their knees, do their duty, and give us our Country back.

    Do not be bullied , bribed or blackmailed into signing May’s surrender document. Stand up; defend your Country.

    1. Sir Joe Soap
      March 16, 2019

      The classic has to be dear Dr Wollaston, MP

      2015 Leaver
      2016 marginal Remainer, accepting Leave result
      2017 stands as an MP on Leave manifesto, “No deal better than a bad deal”
      2018 refuses to back any Leave outcome
      2019 leaves Tory party but remains an MP, backing anything but Leave, scare stories, world caving in if we Leave at all.

      Not somebody you’d want to be making a surgical incision (or decision). You’d end up with parts remaining which should have left, and vice versa.

      1. Tad Davison
        March 17, 2019

        Spot on, but she’s not on her own!

        Tad

    2. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      NickW, An eloquent summary – well spoken.

  17. Jack Falstaff
    March 16, 2019

    As on most occasions, I totally agree with you but what can we, the electorate do about this?
    You are one of the few members of the only place where votes seem to count who seem to represent us, the public at large, and we don’t even seem to have any media where we can express ourselves either now, except in comment sections seemingly refereed by trolls and establishment lackeys (your diary being a notable exception).
    If we carry on like this in UK society, the only way that people will be able to express themselves is by extreme actions, which nobody wants barring a mentally unstable minority.

    1. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      Jack Falstaff, What can you do? Join various Leave organisations; give them money and time. Stop buying EU products, particularly from Germany, France, Spain, and Eire, all of whose politicians appear to hate us and our clamour for freedom.

      1. Tad Davison
        March 17, 2019

        That’s the key – get organised. As individuals, they can pick us off. As a group, we can hold their feet to the fire. This is our opportunity to fight back!

        Tad

  18. Captain Peacock
    March 16, 2019

    Iv said so many times the EU and their lackeys version of democracy is never accept any vote till you get the result you want.

  19. agricola
    March 16, 2019

    Hypochracy=Remain

  20. NickW
    March 16, 2019

    There cannot be any doubt or ambiguity about the classification of May’s “Withdrawal Agreement” as a statement of Unconditional Surrender, because it was dictated to us by the other side, without permitting us any meaningful input into the terms.

    It will be the first time in the history of the World that a Government has signed a document of unconditional surrender without being defeated in battle.

    1. Lynn Atkinson
      March 16, 2019

      Not a single shot fired!

      1. Tad Davison
        March 17, 2019

        Maybe that’s the problem, we’ve been too polite. Far too willing to roll over. Any true Brexiteer on the leave side could do a better job. And it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to say to the EU, this is what we are going to do. Come up with a deal that suits both sides, or we walk away.

        Tad

  21. Iain Moore
    March 16, 2019

    Brexiteers make the mistake of believing that the EUphlies value democracy, and thinking that they will play by the rules, they don’t and never have. The whole EU project is an anti democratic one, which they have never sought a mandate for. Maastricht was voted through on a vote of confidence, they stripped us of our vetoes with the Nice treaty that significantly diluted our sovereignty, when forced to give us a referendum on the Lisbon Constitution , they changed the name of it and ratted on the promise. I suppose it was surprising that we actually got a referendum at all, probably because they thought they would easily win it, but having lost it they have sought every trick in the book to unpick it, including having the Speaker play fast and lose with the House of Commons conventions and rules. They are a despicable anti democracy lot.

    1. Tad Davison
      March 17, 2019

      Spot on! I agree with every word!

      And then these pro-EU remainers wonder why they are so detested!

      Tad

  22. James
    March 16, 2019

    Call May’s bluff. A two year extension is better than her deal because we can still leave the EU’s control afterwards.

    1. matthu
      March 17, 2019

      A two year extension a) costs billions b) delays any fee trade agreement with any other country c) gives additional opportunity for a parliament with 500/650 in favour of Remain to scupper democracy in its entirety for evermore.

    2. Tad Davison
      March 17, 2019

      Nah, it gives the b*****d’s more time to think up plans to de-rail Brexit altogether.

      I have a better idea. Let’s leave on the 29th on WTO terms and then work out a trade deal with the EU afterwards. If the EU won’t play along, and insist on placing taxes on our goods, we will do likewise on theirs. I feel sure they will come to their senses soon enough. Their loss if they don’t. At least we will have a massive burden lifted off our shoulders.

      Tad

  23. James
    March 16, 2019

    It must be apparent to anyone who has a brain larger than the size of a pea, that the best course of action would be to leave on 29 March and trade on WTO terms with all and sundry until such time as alternative arrangements can be put in place. The UK is the best customer of the 27. The 27 are the organ grinders, the EU is their monkey. A sufficient number of the organ grinders will tell their monkey what to do once they realise the extent to which their business with their best customer is being lost to so-called ‘third countries’. Most of the world isn’t in the EU, and the future growth of world trade is very definitely outside the EU, whose share is rapidly diminishing. Meanwhile we should with the utmost haste (“action this day”) diverge in every way from the regulatory absurdities that have emanated from Brussels.

    1. James
      March 16, 2019

      The last thing we want is close alignment with the EU. What is needed is the exact opposite, i.e. divergence as fast as possible from the ludicrous and harmful measures that we have so foolishly allowed to be foisted upon us by unelected nonentities in Brussels.

      1. Tad Davison
        March 17, 2019

        Another couple of great posts!

        Tad

  24. Nearside Forehand
    March 16, 2019

    It is imperative that Brexiteers hold the line and vote down Mrs. May’s appalling Withdrawal Agreement. The people know that it does not represent Brexit at all. They did not vote for this atrocious document in the 2016 referendum. Its passage through Parliament will not pacify the people and will not be perceived as having delivered Brexit. Please do not think otherwise.

    Be under no illusion, voting for Mrs. May’s “deal” is nothing more than signing a permanent surrender of the UK to the EU. There is no way that the state of affairs contemplated in the Withdrawal Agreement can lead to anything other than the UK rejoining the EU. Do not think it can possibly lead to any real form of Brexit. If Brexiteers vote for it, Euroscepticism will not merely be dead in the near term, or for a generation, but will have been killed permanently by its very own proponents.

    There are many commentators who believe that if Parliament chooses to ignore the mandate provided to it by the referendum and tries to overturn Brexit, the consequences for UK democracy will be cataclysmic. This is absolutely true. They believe that these consequences can only be stalled by “holding one’s nose” and voting for the Withdrawal Agreement. This thinking is flawed.

    Brexiteers and Eurosceptics, please understand that it is not your job to decriminalize Parliament’s diabolical and anti-democratic behaviour by voting for an awful deal just so Parliament can be seen to have delivered “the will of the people”. If you do so, you will just have sullied your hands with the blood of the UK’s slaughtered democracy (a shoutout to Stan Gamla in The Sun), because supporting the Withdrawal Agreement is as undemocratic as overturning the result of the referendum.

    A terrible schism has emerged between the government and the governed. Redress of this imbalance is now critically required and should not be feared. When the required conflict between Parliament and the people ensues, it will be essential that the people have leaders remaining in Parliament who can be trusted and who did not sell out. Therefore, please do not sell out. Do not try to prevent the what is now inevitable and natural by voting for a document which is an abject failure in every sense. Keep democracy alive by living to fight for it.

    What is now infinitely more important than delivering Brexit-In-Name-Only is continuing to fight for what the people voted for, which we all know was not the lunacy contained in Mrs. May’s instrument of surrender. The Parliamentary battle might have been lost this time, and the ensuing Parliamentary war may take many more years to win. The people understand this. Please prepare for the long haul. There is no reason to lose the war now by surrendering to Mrs. May’s machinations.

    Instead, understand that the people want you to steel yourself for the Parliamentary war ahead. A purge of Parliament is required. Prepare for that, lead that, and when that has happened you will be able to deliver a true Brexit.

    1. matthu
      March 17, 2019

      Are you an MP? If not, you should be!

    2. Tad Davison
      March 17, 2019

      Well written

      Tad

  25. Dioclese
    March 16, 2019

    Spot on, Sir John…

  26. BenD
    March 16, 2019

    a long time ago in a quiet moment I asked a Chinese official what did he think about democracy..he said yes! but only the educated should have a vote

    at another time I asked an Egyptian what did he think about democracy..he said yes but when the people are hungry democracy counts for very little

    Then when I think about 2016 and the lies that were told I have to say honestly I don’t think much about the result

    Parcel it up any way you like JR but to turn our backs on the EU at this time is a blunder..much more serious, much more serious than most can comprehend..fatal in fact

    1. Sir Joe Soap
      March 16, 2019

      Odd.

      We’re not turning our backs, we just don’t want to play their new games.

      You join a cricket club because you like cricket, which slowly turns its game into baseball. You leave. I’d argue it’s them who have turned their backs on you.

    2. Stred
      March 16, 2019

      Thanks from the Chinese and Egyptians for pointing out the Remain case.

    3. Anonymous
      March 17, 2019

      Can you explain why being able to buy and sell things to each other has to be entangled with political union ?

    4. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      BenD, Like the Fat Boy you “wants to make [our] flesh creep” with fear of the unknown outside of the EU. But that is silly: most of the world is not in the EU.

  27. Den
    March 16, 2019

    Remain is full of EU clones who abhor OUR democracy. Why can they never explain why they would want this Country and its citizens forever subservient to the unelected Brussels cabal? What possible good reasons can there be to freely allow a foreign Oligarchy to make OUR Laws, to control our borders and to dictate the terms on which we can trade with the Rest of the World? Brussels really is the EUSSR under construction. Wait until they create their army. What effect will that have upon Russia? To set another war simmering in Europe maybe?

  28. yossarion
    March 16, 2019

    THE WRATH OF THE AWAKENED SAXON
    by Rudyard Kipling

    It was not part of their blood,
    It came to them very late,
    With long arrears to make good,
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    They were not easily moved,
    They were icy — willing to wait
    Till every count should be proved,
    Ere the Saxon began to hate.

    Their voices were even and low.
    Their eyes were level and straight.
    There was neither sign nor show
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    It was not preached to the crowd.
    It was not taught by the state.
    No man spoke it aloud
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    It was not suddently bred.
    It will not swiftly abate.
    Through the chilled years ahead,
    When Time shall count from the date
    That the Saxon began to hate.

    1. MickN
      March 16, 2019

      May I add some excerpts from a poem by D.W Nash from 1871 called The Fox’s prophecy. A lot of it does seem strangely relevant to where we are today. The full text is online.

      For swiftly o’er the level shore the waves of progress ride,
      The ancient landmarks one by one shall sink beneath the tide.
      Time honoured creeds and ancient faith the Alter and the Crown,
      Lordships hereditary right before that tide go down.

      Base churls shall mock the mighty names writ on the roll of time,
      religion shall be held a jest and loyalty a crime.
      The statesmen that should rule the realm course demagogues displace,
      The glory of a thousand years shall end in foul disgrace.

      Her army and her navy Britain shall cast aside,
      Soldiers and ships are costly things, defence an empty pride.
      The German and the Muscovite shall rule the narrow seas.
      Old England’s flag shall cease to float in triumph on the breeze.

      The footstep of the invader then England’s shores shall know,
      while homebred traitors give the hand to England’s every foe.
      Disarmed before the foreigner the knee shall humbly bend,
      and yield the treasures that she lacked the wisdom to defend.

      1. sm
        March 17, 2019

        Mick, thank you for that reference which I have followed up; how very omniscient it all is! “The faithless lore of Germany, the gilded voice of Gaul”.

  29. Lifelogic
    March 16, 2019

    Indeed. But as we suffer under the appalling socialist, project fear remainers May and Hammond it seems we might will have an appalling choice between May’s straight jacket deal and an extension followed by remain. As Charles Moore puts it today:-

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/15/dont-envy-pro-brexit-mps-now-left-impossible-dilemma/

    Without the threat no deal an appalling deal (or extend and remain) is almost inevitable.

    If May manages to ram her (& Oliver Robbins’s PPE yet again) deal down the throats of MPs then very soon people will realise how she has completely stitched the country up. May will clearly be culpable and hopefully someone will find some way of charging her with something and throwing away the key. Just as she is proposing to give put the UK in handcuffs and hand the key to the EU.

    But will Oliver Robbins be able to get off by saying, “I vos only obeying orders”?

    1. Lifelogic
      March 16, 2019

      Listening to the rest of Any Questions actually I heard the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment claim that last year was the first year that “renewables” generated more than 50% of our electricity. This is complete and utter tosh. So is she a liar or completely out of her depth? How on earth can someone, who seems to have a PHD in Chemistry, be such a complete and utter dope? Do they start to believe their own propaganda after a while?

      Wind, solar and hydro were about 23% combined in 2018 (and these are certainly greenhouse gas producing in reality needing back up, construction & maintenance). If you include the scientifically, economically and environmentally insane importation of biomass to burn you get another 9%.

      Demand for UK electricity is falling as electricty prices are pushed up by an insane government expensive energy policy. So energy intensive businesses and jobs are idiotically pushed abroad (where they probably use even more) and other people simply cannot afford to electricity to keep warm.

      Overall of mankind’s total energy useage worldwide Solar and PV produce less than 0.5%. Solar and PV in the UK is absolutely irrelevant to reducing total world C02 emissions manmade and natural. As all sensible experts in this area know full well alas few seem to be in government.

      1. Stred
        March 16, 2019

        The dimwit uses peak electricity generation on a windy day. Heating and transport are ignored and 65% non windy times too.

    2. Richard
      March 16, 2019

      Charles Moore: “The case against voting for Mrs May’s deal is that it won’t really let us leave. Trapped by the backstop, we shall either lose our Union or never regain our freedom to trade. EU rules will creep ever further into our commercial lives and we shall have lost all power to make, alter or stop them. Far from replacing Mrs May, we will find her hailed as a miracle worker … She will stay, and so, in every future negotiation, we shall lose. We will be the laughing stock of the world.
      There is a deeper, democratic objection to voting for her deal. What would it say to the people “out of doors”? … don’t suppose that the Commons in its current form, or the main parties that compose it, will last much longer. After Mrs May’s fiasco is finished, there will be the next battle. The country will need people with clean hands to fight it.”

  30. ian
    March 16, 2019

    There is a misconception that what is going on is all the fault of the politician in parliament, they are only the facilitators of what is happening to Brexit and the country.

    It is the fault of the big business lobby group in the heart of Westminister that is causing all the problem with the elite who have the ear of the politician who also owns the media of this country and elsewhere, they are pulling the strings and the politician are dancing to their music, you are controlled by their media at every election on how to think.

    In Brussels, they have an even stronger business lobby group who control every move the EU Commission take and the MEPs, nothing happens in the EU without the business lobby group permission and their lawyers, it is they who make the laws you are living under, politician meaning MPs and MEPs only pasts their laws.

    The reason politician only listens to big businesses and bankers and such like is because it understood that the education and expertise that they have is the best along with knowledge of how things should work and be done.

    When things go wrong the politician run to them for ideas and advice on what to do, the main answer they always receive benefits them first like in 2008, the get the gov to printed and it go to bankers and big businesses first and then they tell the politician that money trickle down to the people, but the only thing that trickles down from them is high inflation and small than usual pay raises or pay cuts, so then they promise the politician that they will employ more people to keep them on their side so they can show the people some good news and can report that country is doing well.

    That is why the voter’s voice is never heard.

    The people on this site say they love big businesses and that they should lower taxes for them and other things, so there for you shouldn’t mind what goes on between big businesses and politician about Brexit and other policies, big businesses are the leading light in the political world.

    1. Sir Joe Soap
      March 16, 2019

      Most contributors here aren’t friends of big business. Quite happy for them to be the launch pad for new high productivity SMEs, but liking big business is like saying you like water. Has to be there, but generally not exciting.

    2. Lynn Atkinson
      March 16, 2019

      It’s called ‘Corporatism’ – the continental understanding of capitalism. It’s fundamental to a nationalist socialist system. The politicians legislate for ‘big business’ – the corporatists who are functionaries paid to run companies and have none of their own money at risk. The Corporatists fund the political parties. The electorate is superfluous!

    3. Tad Davison
      March 17, 2019

      ‘nothing happens in the EU without the business lobby group permission and their lawyers, it is they who make the laws you are living under’

      Which would seem to go against the very ethos of the Labour party and the Trades Union movement, yet they are absolutely besotted with the EU.

      Tad

  31. Steve
    March 16, 2019

    Spot on as always Mr Redwood.

    Exposes another of Mrs May’s failings; allowing the moaners the chance to hijack a referendum they lost.

    Those people lost an entirely lawful referendum, I don’t see why they’re being allowed to adversely affect the sovereignty of this country.

    They should be made to shut up and quit moaning. If they have anything to say it should be at the next general election.

    I’m sick of ’em quite frankly, and I believe that if they go against the sovereignty of the UK they should be denied citizenship.

  32. Lifelogic
    March 16, 2019

    When Robbins was over heard saying, “Got to make them believe that the week beginning end of March… extension is possible but if they don’t vote for the deal then the extension is a long one…” this was clearly the government’s plan.

    To ram her UK stitch up deal down the throats of the sensible wing of the Conservatives by giving them a choice between two absolutely appalling non Brexit choices.

    It seems that even Iain Dale wants to LBC callers to stop calling these people traitors/quislings etc. why? That is exactly what they are and that is what I and very many others will call them. I certainly could never vote for any of the 200 MP who voted “confidence” in this dire, dishonest and dim PM.

    1. Lifelogic
      March 16, 2019

      Heath took us into the “Common Market” without getting the consent of the people thus leading to all the current EU problems. Now Theresa May proposes to lock us in a Straight Jacket (for ever) yet again directly against the will of the people. She must be stopped. The Conservatives will rightly be blammed for ever more, UKIP and Brexit party will be revived – the Tory party will destroy itself and we will get Communist Corbyn.

    2. matthu
      March 17, 2019

      Iain Dale acted as chief of staff to David Davis in the run-up to the 2005 Conservative Party leadership. Davis has supported May’s WA. Hence why Dale is sensitive about referring to such people as traitors.

    3. Tad Davison
      March 17, 2019

      I regularly use words that fit like Traitor and Quisling. Iain Dale rarely uses my text messages, but he shouldn’t shoot the messenger. This is an accurate reflection of how people feel.

      Tad

  33. Les Hodgett
    March 16, 2019

    I wish I could believe that TMay was running the clock down so that Brexit would happen on 29th. March. However Machiavellian have been the devices to date, I cannot see that her Machiavellian-ness would stretch to that! It would make a great excuse clause for her political life for her to be able to state on the 30th – I had to work this way in order for this to get achieved…
    ***Are there ANY legal means to ensure that a free-to-deal-Brexit happens on the 29th?***

    1. Cloud
      March 16, 2019

      wish I could believe that TMay was running the clock down so that Brexit would happen on 29th

      >
      She fooled Labour, the Bilderburg plan fooled Labour, who thought she was running the clock down to No Deal. But now the full horror has dawned, that she was working for the EU all along to perpetually enslave us, why is not Labour and the ERG coming together? Time is short.

    2. Cloud
      March 16, 2019

      She is running down the clock on her backbenchers, thats all.

    3. John Hatfield
      March 16, 2019

      Wouldn’t it be nice ? As the song goes. Keep hoping Les.

  34. The Prangwizard
    March 16, 2019

    Sadly these people have no shame. Appealing to their better nature is a waste of time, as it is with the PM. Another better more assertive approach is needed and this must include bolstering those Leave MPs who may be weakening. Their leave supporting constituents must pressure them to firm up. No surrender must be the cry. If they give in to keep the peace they will never be forgiven.

  35. JeremyG
    March 16, 2019

    This is all very well but what about May’s dreadful deal & the possibility of ERG members plus DUP backing it? Is this not the critical issue this weekend?

    Surely it should not be possible for May to bring her betrayal before parliament three times with no difference between MV2 & MV3. She’s doing exactly what remainers want with the referendum. Ask the public to vote for it repeatedly until she gets the right answer.

    There’s something very wrong with our political system that someone like May gets herself into a position where she can sell out the country to the EU which is what she is doing.

    Our ancestors who fought & for many died in wars over history must be turning in their graves this weekend at the prospect of May’s capitulation. I am disgusted with the lot of you. You are bringing infamy to parliament and our once great country.

    Reply I have not changed my view on the Withdrawal Agreement and have set out many times here what is wrong with it.

    1. JeremyG
      March 16, 2019

      Thank you Sir John. At least there’s one of you who isn’t “bending the knee” to the traitor in number 10.

      I hope some of the others who are now apparently supporting the Withdrawal Agreement such as Esther McVey, David Davis, Daniel Kawczynski, the DUP (who even now are in discussions with number 10) can be persuaded to keep voting against the WA.

      Please do whatever you can & encourage others too.

    2. Ian wragg
      March 16, 2019

      But what about your buddies. JR-M seems to be dithering. If it goes through thats the end of the Tory Party and rightly so.

      Reply Lots of us are not dithering

  36. hans christian ivers
    March 16, 2019

    Sir JR,

    A very interesting argument and to a certain degree also the case. However, neither the leave or remain campaign are homogenous groups or people in any shape and form.

    So it actually makes your argument less valid and comes across as rather simple and not particular rational either.

    So what is the point of presenting this sort of argument in the first place?

    1. Narrow Shoulders
      March 16, 2019

      I assume that Sir John is referring to the remain contingent in the House of Commons who do appear to be a homogenous group and to whom the above most certainly applies.

      Specious and disingenuous all.

    2. eeyore
      March 16, 2019

      What’s simplistic or irrational in our host’s presentation of these facts? As for the purpose served, isn’t exposure of dishonesty and hypocrisy in public life purpose enough?

    3. zorro
      March 16, 2019

      Having read your comments over the last few months, I would say that the following is invariably true – Everything you say should be seen through the prism of you don’t care what anyone says or does as long as we remain in the EU.

      zorro

      1. hans christian ivers
        March 17, 2019

        Zorro,

        Very interesting interpretation, but wrong conslusion

    4. agricola
      March 16, 2019

      They do not have to be homogenous groups, an occurance very rare in politics I would think. People voted remain/leave for a variety of reasons. There were just not enough remain to carry the day. Rather than accept the democratic decision, remain in positions of power decided to sabotage the process by all means possible. They have been aided and abetted by a PM and her civil service determined to ignore parliamentary votes, manifesto promises, and creating a lying smokescreen leading up to Chequers. Post Chequers the truth began to dawn on everyone. That 2/3rds of the tory party support this is in a real sense their epitaph. They underestimate and take for granted the electorate at their peril. I personally hope that Nigel Farage developes an organisation I can vote for.

      The point of the arguement is to expose remain for the self serving bunch of shysters they are. Our host is too steeped in politenss to put it that way.

      1. hans christian ivers
        March 17, 2019

        Agricola,

        So are we now talking about the MPs or the more than 16 million, who voted to remain?

      2. NickC
        March 17, 2019

        Agricola, Very well put, thank you.

    5. JPM
      March 16, 2019

      People have claimed that leavers didn’t know which Brexit they were voting for.

      Have you applied your same reasoning to discredit remainers?

  37. Cloud
    March 16, 2019

    Sir John (not for wobbling) Redwood, now sir, is your moment.

    1. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      Indeed, I am grateful to JR (and a few dozen others) for holding the line.

  38. NickW
    March 16, 2019

    I was going to write and point out that at the very least, one would have expected those Conservative MPs who are determined to sabotage Brexit, would have had the wits to ensure that they did so in such a way as to ensure that the Opposition got the blame.

    Then on reflection I realised that the Conservative Party has been very successfully outclassed and outmaneuvered at every step, with Labour being eminently successful in sabotaging Brexit, whilst at the same time making sure that the Conservatives get the blame and are permanently destroyed in the process.

    Better and more intelligent leadership is needed.

  39. Lindsay McDougall
    March 16, 2019

    And approaching 500 MPs are Remainers; so get a new parliament.

    Latest opinion polls (Survation and YouGov) both show a 5% drop in Conservative support. In one of them, UKIP were the main beneficiaries.

    Survation fieldwork was on Thursday and Friday.
    YouGov fieldwork was on Friday.

    Mrs May’s deal was voted down on Tuesday.
    No Deal was voted down on Wednesday (still not binding).
    A vote to postpone Article 50 was taken on Thursday.

    Draw your own conclusions. Those whom the Gods wish to destroy, …………………….

  40. NickW
    March 16, 2019

    These are the surrender terms.

    1) The UK is shut out of all EU networks and databases for security – yet no such provision exists to shut the EU out of yours. (Article 8).

    2) The UK is bound by EU rules on procurement rules – which effectively forbids you from seeking better deals elsewhere. (Articles 75 to 78)

    3) The UK will be tied to EU foreign policy, “bound by the obligations stemming from the international agreements concluded by the Union” but unable to influence such decisions. (Article 124)

    4) The ECJ is your highest court (Art. 86).

    5) The UK will remain under the jurisdiction of the ECJ in certain areas until EIGHT years after the end of the transition period. (Article 158).

    6) The UK will still be bound by any future changes to EU law in which it will have no say, not to mention having to comply with current law. (Article 6(2))

    7) Any disputes under the Agreement will be decided by EU law only – perhaps the most dangerous provision of all. (Article 168)

    8) Arbitration will be governed by the existing procedural rules of the EU– this is not arbitration as you would commonly understand it (i.e. between two independent parties). (Article 174).

    9) The UK is bound by EU rules on procurement rules – which effectively forbids you from seeking better deals elsewhere. (Articles 75 to 78)

    10) You give up all rights to any data the EU made with your money (Art. 103)

    11) The EU decide capital projects the UK is liable for (Art. 144)

    12) The UK is bound by EU state aid laws until future agreement – even in the event of an agreement, this must wait four years to be valid. (Article 93)

    13) Any powers the UK parliament might have had to mitigate EU law are officially removed. (Article 128)

    14) The UK will be liable for future EU lending. (Article143)

    15) The UK will remain liable for capital projects approved by the European Investment Bank. (Article 150).

    16) he UK will remain a ‘party’ for the European Development Fund. (Articles 152-154)

    17) The UK will remain bound to the European Union Emergency Trust Fund – which deals with irregular migration (i.e. refugees) and displaced persons heading to Europe. (Article 155)

    And, of course, the UK will agree to pay £39bn to receive all of these ‘privileges’.

    How can any MP justify agreeing to that?

    1. Sir Joe Soap
      March 16, 2019

      This list should be posted more widely.

      1. Sir Joe Soap
        March 16, 2019

        Also we pay for most of these “privileges”, whatever they tell us to.

    2. matthu
      March 17, 2019

      “And, of course, the UK will agree to pay £39bn to receive all of these ‘privileges’.”

      That is before any additional sums demanded for the privilege of extending Article 50. Rumoured to be at least £1 bn per month …

  41. mary
    March 16, 2019

    My guess is that we are going to be royally betrayed next week, possibly that May piece of s–t will try the WA for a 3rd time. . The cowardly Govt are expecting 10,000 foreign troops in UK on 30 March to quell any uprisings and protect their miserable hides (although they claim otherwise). They are too cowardly to face the people they have betrayed and cower behind 10,000 troops, possibly lethally armed no doubt and with diplomatic immunity?

    1. Lynn Atkinson
      March 16, 2019

      It will be voted down next week. Expect a 4th try the week after!

    2. Sir Joe Soap
      March 16, 2019

      We should be marching in London March 29th!!!!!!

  42. Martyn G
    March 16, 2019

    Well, I suppose their eagerness for yet another vote is rooted in their blind obedience to the EU way of doing such things. Lost a referendum, did we? Well, wait a while, educate the people and get them to vote again. It has worked for them thus far, typically France and Ireland who returned on the second occasion persuaded that the EU was right and voted accordingly. Unlike what the EU did to Greece and Italy, they don’t have to bolt in EU apparatchiks to ensure the UK government works the way the EU thinks they should, here in the UK they already have a small army of UK citizens embedded into the fabric of our society and governance ready to do their bidding. Our long and proud island history is, sadly, probably going to draw to a close as we become a sort of subservient region of the EU, will all the horrors that this will entail.

  43. Everhopeful
    March 16, 2019

    I’m not certain that “democracy” has ever actually gone against the ruling class before?
    Two party system.
    One party gets power and ruins the country for a few years then because of the ruination the other party gets voted in and continues with the destruction.
    More or less up until now we thought that whichever party we voted for would carry out the manifesto we voted for.
    Not on your Nelly! We were always too optimistic.
    Scales falling from eyes.
    And all the turkeys have come home to roost!!

  44. Bryan Harris
    March 16, 2019

    “Remain loves democracy only when the vote goes their way.”

    This is inspired by the EU of course, but has it’s roots in socialism…

  45. Denis Cooper
    March 16, 2019

    Also tangentially, I would hark back to this comment from nine months ago:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/06/21/the-governments-flexible-friend/#comment-941970

    which started:

    “For the past 45 years our trade deals have been those negotiated by the EU and its antecedents on behalf of all member states, and that must continue to be the case until we are free of the EU customs union.”

    with a link to the relevant part of the EU website, and set that against these statements from Theresa May four months ago:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-on-eu-negotiations-22-november-2018

    “Crucially, the text we have agreed also has an explicit reference to development of an independent trade policy by the UK beyond this partnership with the EU.

    So we would have the ability to sign new trade deals with other countries and capitalise on the opportunities in the fastest growing economies around the world.

    And we would be able to get on with this – negotiating deals during the Implementation Period and putting them in place immediately afterwards.”

    The problem being that the Irish government is determined to keep us subject to the rules of the EU Customs Union and will be able to veto any future treaty which would release us and so permit us to have that independent trade policy, so how does she propose to defeat her friend Leo Varadkar or his successor over that difficulty?

    1. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      Denis Cooper, Theresa May’s reassurances reassure no one anymore.

  46. George Brooks
    March 16, 2019

    The terrifying aspect of the Withdrawal Agreement is that if it should get voted through the UK would be in a far worse position than we are at present as an ordinary member of the EU with little or no prospect of ever getting out.

    Any MP who votes for it is in danger of committing his or her children and grand children to a fate worse than hell

    Trusting that the WA is thrown out we then have to ensure that neither the PM nor any of her team have anything to do with shaping our future relationship with the EU otherwise we will end up in another complete mess as we experiencing now.

  47. A.Sedgwick
    March 16, 2019

    Dominic Grieve in an interview with Andrew Neil sidetracked the points you make by bringing up The Good Friday Agreement/Treaty?

    The picture could not be clearer 17.4 million have been stuffed by vested interests and associates.

    The WA is “empereor has no clothes” moment to be.

  48. Edwardm
    March 16, 2019

    The irony is lost on the remoaners

    I had a remoaner tell me that a second referendum should be a choice between Remain and the WA, because WTO is not possible (according to remoaners) – forgetting how the rest of the world manages and ignoring that Leave won the referendum. Says something about the remoaner mindset.

  49. Mark B
    March 16, 2019

    I find it odd that Remain MP’s are happy to ask people to vote again and again in support of a Federal Government (EU Commission) when, no one is allowed to vote on the Laws it creates and, those that create those laws. It would be interesting to hear their views on this lack of democracy ?

    1. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      Mark B, Good point.

  50. zorro
    March 16, 2019

    I do not think May has enough in her locker to persuade the DUP. and any other grubby bribe should be exposed by the ERG. It is NOT about the ‘backstop’, the issue is about vassalage and OUR country being RULED and TAXED without REPRESENTATION. I visite Boston recently and it reacquainted me with the similarities with what we face today. The law is the law and no two-bit MP’s motion should be allowed to subvert it.

    The issue is really that simple. If all else fails, we MUST have an election to decide what government can re-establish the sovereignty and independence of the UK. This government has performed very poorly – we need someone with the confidence of Trump to push this through – my favourite moment of the last few days was seeing Varadkar’s face when sitting next to Trump and being told what would happen if the EU played dumb.

    zorro

  51. Jane
    March 16, 2019

    The DUP must not be bought off with silver.
    A General Election is required to rid us of this hung Parliament.
    The EU must not railroad us into becoming a vassal state.

  52. rose
    March 16, 2019

    The PM also keeps losing votes and insisting on more till she wins. This is the EU democratic method.

  53. david barker
    March 16, 2019

    Dear Mr Redwood,

    “If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with wornout tools…

    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run –
    Yours is Brexit and everything that’s in it,
    And – which is more – you’ll be a true son of Britain (& NI)!

  54. glen cullen
    March 16, 2019

    The answer to a binary question (leave or remain) can only be a achieve by binary action for a clear result

    Leave won therefore we must leave the EU 100%

    1. margaret howard
      March 16, 2019

      49 million British people out of a population of 66 million did NOT vote to leave the EU.

      EXIT BREXIT!

      Reply 50 million did not vote to remain in

      1. sm
        March 17, 2019

        Margaret, the size of the UK electorate (NOT the total population) in 2016 was 46.8 million, not 66 million as you like to pretend.

      2. matthu
        March 17, 2019

        70 million did not vote to join the EU in the first place.

  55. Ian Pennell
    March 16, 2019

    Dear Sir John Redwood,

    It would appear that the Conservative Party is starting to get much more blame for the vote to delay Brexit, ruling out of “No Deal” and the fact that Theresa May seems to have no functioning government: The latest Survation Poll (conducted over Friday) has the Conservatives down five percent on 35%, Labour up three percent (now on 35%) compared to their mid February polling. You Gov’s latest poll sees the Conservatives down from 40% to 35% compared to the start of this month, Labour are unchanged on 31% and UKIP (now becoming a modern version of the BNP) is up three percent to 6%.

    Theresa May and her Government are a liability not just with regard to Brexit but the future electoral prospects of the Conservative Party. Drastic Catharsis is sometimes vital, even if it involves short- term risks and pain. You need a strong Leader who believes in Brexit leading your Party and drastic measures may be needed to effect this outcome and rescue both Brexit and Conservative Party fortunes before you are faced with 1995-1997 Style Conservative poll deficits- by which time it will clearly be too late.

    1. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      Ian Pennell, Don’t be a dope in following the lies of the establishment and MSM. UKIP are not, and never have been “a modern version of the BNP”. UKIP has exactly the same rules prohibiting entryism from the BNP, NF, EDL etc as it had when Nigel Farage was leader. UKIP is a liberal (not Liberal nor LibDem) and patriotic party. Ex-BNP members and councillors are in the Labour and Conservative parties, but not allowed in UKIP.

  56. Peter Parsons
    March 16, 2019

    To quote David Davis, “If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.”

    Furthermore, all sides in a free country have a right to express their views. Denying that right is a denial of democracy.

    The Conservative Party did not shut up and go away in 1997, 2001 or 2005, they campaigned and argued to reverse those results. Why should those who voted to remain do any different now?

    Reply We accepted defeat, recognised Labours right to govern, and changed our offer to voters. We did not deny or seek to change the result of the election.

    1. NickC
      March 17, 2019

      Peter Parsons, If you don’t want to change your mind that’s fine by me. What you are not entitled to do in a democracy is actually discard the Referendum result just because you don’t like it.

    2. matthu
      March 17, 2019

      Democracy can change its mind, of course! But it still waits in line for the next referendum (available in a generation’s time, as promised) before trying to overturn the previous referendum.

  57. Lindsay McDougall
    March 17, 2019

    And Mrs May says that unless the Commons approves of her deal, she will postpone Brexit indefinitely. That does it; you must remove her from Office. The only way that is possible is to support a Labour No Confidence motion. The necessary schedule is simple:
    – Publish a Brexiteers’ Manifesto by mid-April
    – Vote No Confidence in the (Remainer) Government
    – Aim for an election day of Thursday June 27th

  58. Henry Carter
    March 17, 2019

    Correct Mr Redwood, you did not deny or seek to change the result of the election. And the Peoples Vote campaign does not deny or seek to change the result of the 2016 referendum. We want another referendum, just like we get another election every few years. Letting the people vote is what democracy is. I am sorry you want to suppress democracy, Mr Redwood

    Relly The idea of democracy is to implement the result ofa referendum or election!

  59. Paul H
    March 17, 2019

    And May loses a “meaningful vote” so decides that it was not meaningful after all.

  60. gyges01
    March 17, 2019

    Democracy is the politics of the will of the people; voting is the means by which the will of the people is determined.

    The remain argument appears to be that voting is democracy: it isn’t. Voting is the mechanism by which democracy enacted.

    I still can’t tell whether remainers understand this concept?

  61. mary
    March 17, 2019

    I read that Esther McVey intends to accept the Surrender Agreement, tossing UK under the jackboot of the “Joint Committee” ie an EU controlled secret junta with totalitarian powers over our persons, legislature, judiciary and executive with no exit; in other words into the EUSSR totalitarian state. For that is what the “Withdrawal” agreement signs us up to.
    Mc Vey claims she is an ardent brexiteer, but her excuse for doing this is to avoid “Labour chaos.”
    Is this woman sane? Capitulating to totalitarianism just to avoid Labour? Or is she a genuine brexiteer, she doesnt sound like one

  62. Stephen O
    March 17, 2019

    These are strange times when a Conservative Government will push through a measure (on ‘delaying’ Brexit) despite a majority of its own MP’s voting against the measure.

    The Prime Minister has been dishonest, not least about leaving on the 29th March and resorted to every trick she can to push through her unpopular policy. Rather than try to find the best alternative when she lost the vote she has sought out the worst alternatives to try and make her plan the better of two evils.

    While remainer MPs have also tried their own tricks, the Brexiteer MPs have tended to be reactive to events.

    If leaving on the 29th March is the default situation, with further legislation required to change this, would not Brexit go ahead at the end of the month if the government were to lose a vote of confidence? Can not Brexiteer withhold support for the government, bring about a vote of confidence and prevent any legislation to delay Brexit. I suspect Labour would not resist the temptation of bringing about a general election even if it mean a no deal Brexit.

    The risk of a Corbyn government will remain whether the next election is held now or in a few years time.

  63. Lester Beedell
    March 17, 2019

    Golly, I didn’t realise when Blair got in that I could have asked for another vote.

    I accepted it because we were a Democracy.

  64. Lester Beedell
    March 17, 2019

    Until recently I had the original government leaflets about our entry into the Common Market, the YES leaflet was Red, White & Blue with young families featuring prominently while the NO leaflet was Brown & Yellow, an example of manipulation but I was far too naive to recognise it for what it was, it’s been downhill all the way ever since!

  65. Oliver
    March 17, 2019

    I might point out, Sir John, that if the Referendum had been conducted along EU QMV lines, Leave would have won by 76:24 on electoral population split, and buy 75:25 on the number of regions.

    So Remainers seek to pretend they want a systemn in which thier opinion would have been shown up for what it is – unrepresentative of the broad spread of opinion in the country?!

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