I have been in discussions with the rail industry and Ministers over the future of the railway.
In order to define a post Covid role and to regain lost market share the railway needs to understand what many people think about railways. When people are considering how to carry out a journey they will consider the time it takes, the cost it incurs, and wider issues of convenience and comfort. They are interested in their door to door journey, not just the part of the journey they could do by train.
The pre Covid railway depended on commuters for a lot of its passenger revenue. Off peak leisure travel was often on heavily discounted tickets, and often with trains that were not full. As many office based businesses examine hybrid working with more done at home on digital systems and less in the office both the numbers using the trains and the fares they are prepared to pay are likely to come down substantially. People will want flexible season tickets that allow a wide choice over days and times of travel. Correct pricing probably by a system of rising discounts as people travel more will also be more popular if the part time commuter can also have some journeys off peak, which could also help the railway company when planning capacity provision.
At the core of the new railway should be freight. Most people in the country would like to see more freight on the trains and fewer large foreign trucks on the motorways. To make this practical there needs to be keener pricing and better service from rail. Time was when the large industrial estates were crossed by branch lines linking them to the main rail network, with single waggon marshalling to allow use by smaller factories as well as by the trainload users. Today most industrial parks boast good motorway or trunk road access instead. In its later years before privatisation BR was not interested in single waggon traffic but majored on oil, cement, aggregates, bricks, cars and the other large scale trainload customers. The rail industry needs to put in more access to industrial parks, more marshalling yards and state of the art freight control and surveillance systems. Sealed freight containers on trains could assist with streamlining border checks and controls.
The railways have a disadvantage in not in many cases being able to do door to door, so they need easy transfer of containers from rail waggon to truck tractor unit for end delivery. They should have big advantages on fuel and driver costs with low friction transit and far bigger loads per driver. These advantages increase the longer the total journey distance.
There remains the issue of what social and leisure use will people want to make of the railway? Should that be subsidised and if so by how much? Can the railway do more by way of specials to events to take congestion and parking strain away from Concerts, football and the rest? What use do you want to make of the railway?
241 Comments
Comments are closed.
June 2, 2021
Good morning.
The Railways are in competition with the road, with the road winning out due to its network, ease of use, access, convenience and affordability. For long journeys though the train would be better providing good transport was available at the both ends.
If there is no market then there should be no service. The Railways should not be treated or run as purely a public service. We do not see the high street as such or any other commercial enterprise, so why should rail be any different.
As the government seems set to drive the hoi-polloi off the roads and from personal transport I see a future where passenger numbers will increase. This is good but, as I have said above, so long that there is good transport links at either end. So there needs to be much more research and spending on city infrastructure. Just looking to put more bums on seats is not enough.
June 2, 2021
…and yet this government has subsidy Transport for London (TfL) ÂŁ4bn….yes ÂŁ4bn since lockdown
June 2, 2021
@Mark,
It’s too simplistic / ideological to see a key infrastructure of our economy as being akin to a concern in something like a company’s consumer marketing department (there is important overlap though).
Socialists go the other way, completely ignoring the reality of the demands of capitalism which do of course have to be met but in the right way.
Sir John seems to get this hence why he asks these important questions basing his capitalism on reality as opposed to ideology.
June 2, 2021
Certainly less freight on the roads would be a very good thing.At the moment the roads are congested with so many large vehicles .
I would use the train for long journeys but also into London from Oxford where I live as it is easier, cheaper and more efficient
Around here ( Oxford) there is considerable interest in reinstating railway lines from Cowley and Witney to Oxford not to mention a link to Cambridge
June 2, 2021
Oxford to Cambridge and on to the coast makes sense, taking a huge number of lorries off the roads. Linking through the local towns en route would lead to a surge in investment.
A sensible Build Back Better recovery after Covid should include big infrastructure projects — water and gas grid extensions as well as this.
JF
June 2, 2021
They are already working on the (single track) reinstatement from Oxford to Milton Keynes. From there on to Cambridge is a bit trickier I believe.
June 2, 2021
Oxford has the A34 route to Southampton which is now mostly dualled. Cambridge has little industry. What is really needed is the A14 to be improved between the M6/M1 start point and Felixstowe.
June 2, 2021
I view the train in the same way Lenin viewed the train, a tool of political and social control. The collectivist, politicised nature of rail travel leaves me cold whereas the motor car is the physical embodiment of personal freedom and privacy from snivelling, deceitful politicians, parasitic bureaucrats and the Socialist State’s seemingly unquenchable thirst to assert control over every aspect of peoples lives.
The message is simple. We cannot allow the now freedom hating, authoritarian, neo-Marxist British State to encourage dependency.
What exactly does John believe in these days?
June 2, 2021
I love the way you have turned the topic into âreds under the bedâ. You are this siteâs version of Sir Herbert Gussett.
June 2, 2021
Personal freedom: I notice the MPs who are vocal about opening up are the authentic Conservatives – Sir John, IDS, Peter Bone and so on.
June 2, 2021
Shame that I can only think of a handful – it should be all of them
June 2, 2021
You have to wonder what on earth do the large Conservative ranks think has gone on since the GE? Happy, or living their MP prestige for as long as it lasts, likely to be the next GE.
With 3 PMs each getting worse, how are they going to approach getting re-elected?
June 2, 2021
They’re Whigs, I think, rather than Conservatives in the Robert Peel tradition.
June 2, 2021
Dom, you are going to get the usual snarl about your post because of your phrasing but I agree it is a control measure. You will do things at a time to suit us, at a cost to suit us, less freedom and choice for the masses so the roads can be preserved for the Tesla class.
Once you give the power back to the train drivers and their unions then production lines can be halted, excessive wages and perks can be applied for because the masses are over a barrel.
June 2, 2021
@DOM; Your comment probably tells us more about yourself than it does anything about rail transport, the personal car brings isolation from others in the same way as ones ‘Castle’ does…
June 2, 2021
This is a completely ideological comment and so completely unhelpful.
June 2, 2021
Plus 10.
I don’t think I’ll be using the trains again. They were OK in the 60s coming on leave from the Navy but that entailed 3 trains and 2 busses from Scotland to Derbyshire.
The difference was phenomenal when I got my first car in 64. Door to door in 6 hours.
June 2, 2021
I’m with you on that Ian. I used the train to get down to Gatwick airport and travelling with luggage is a nightmare. Now, I drive in peace with my luggage safe and leave the car at a friends house while I’m gone. Trains are a nightmare now and don’t even bother to book a seat or a seat in first class. There were no seats available in first class even though I had paid for one and on another occasion I booked a seat on the normal carriage and that too was taken by some bolshy bloke who had no intention of moving. Then there are the drunks at night. I didn’t feel safe travelling alone. Give me my car any day.
June 2, 2021
I think there is something magical about London and then getting on a train in London for Gatwick, get on plane, get off plane into the sun and blue skies of the Med – whole thing magical. Where as the stop-start, traffic jams, road rage on way to Gatwick, and parking, I find a bit jarring. Ruins the magic of the whole day and the magic of travelling abroad on holiday.
Be great if they could improve train to Gatwick – more of them, faster, more comfortable and nicer design to add to the magic of travelling from and arriving in London by train.
June 2, 2021
It’s a fair question to ask, John, and should be directed at a normal, representative cross-section of the public.
However, most of your regular commenters here seem to be anything but that, and so it is beyond me what use their habitually-fixated replies might be.
Reply Do you only come on to insult everyone else? Why are your views uniquely of better value?
June 2, 2021
You seem to be under the illusion that your replies are not âhabitually fixatedâ by which expression I presume you mean âentrenched, unthinking viewsâ. You and Andy are the best examples of that on here.
EU good. UK bad. Thatâs your prism for everything.
June 2, 2021
Not at all. I have said all along that the EU is very far from perfect. But it is better than this corrupt shambles of a government your minority has imposed on the rest of us.
The 52m who did not vote for Johnson and his incompetent henchmen are appalled at the 13m of you who did. You should be embarrassed at what you have done to our country.
June 2, 2021
Andy. They had a chance to show their disgust at the last local elections but Labour got slapped into outer space.
June 2, 2021
52 million…??
The whole electorate is only 47 million and about 44% of them on average actually vote.
In the 2019 election the Conservatives got the highest percentage by any party since
andy it’s time to stop your dodgy statistics
June 2, 2021
…..since 1979
June 2, 2021
People who do not vote are still humans with 100% of their human rights.
And many, those under eighteen, soon will be voters too.
June 2, 2021
No they are not.
Stop stealing the votes of people who never voted MiC
Only the left do this.
June 2, 2021
@Andy
For the record I have only voted Conservative once in my life – in 1979. Before that I voted Labour. Between 1983 and 2010 I voted Liberal – and then Liberal Democrat. Since 2010 I have voted Green. I also voted to leave the EU. I am sorry I do not fit into the box you want to put me in.
June 2, 2021
A
Andy figure plucker strikes again.
The total UK electorate is only 47.6 million, of whom only 32 million actually voted. For information people in prison, children under 18 cannot vote.
Of that 32 million 13 million plus voted conservative which suggests to me that only 19 million did not vote conservative, choosing to split their vote between a myriad of parties none of whom came anywhere near the conservative vote. Not long ago we confirmed the FPTP system as the one we wanted, end of story. Please stop boring us with all this nonesense.
June 2, 2021
+1
June 2, 2021
Ah the sneering hateful lefty thinking how superior to everyone else they are.
Keep insulting everyone MiC, it will help keep the awful Labour party in opposition for many years to come.
June 2, 2021
Martin, how do you know who the people are behind the posts on here, where they were born, what schools they went to, how they made a living, family lives, and situations? You presume too much and come along each day to attack and insult us at every opportunity.
Seriously do you presume that all people that lean right aren’t normal or representative?
June 2, 2021
@a-tracy,
There’s a difference between pragmatic capitalism and ideological capitalism. Both types feature in these comments.
Personally, I think ideological capitalism is as ineffective as socialism (yes, ideological capitalism can have real, short-term successes – like socialism – but in the long term at a big price in very often complicated ways.
Where as pragmatic capitalism really hits the spot on the long term and everyone benefits and is happy – both the rich and poor.
June 2, 2021
And yes there is a battle in the right between ideological capitalism and pragmatic capitalism and most capitalists are a mixture of both.
May both socialism and ideogical capitalism get a good trouncing.
June 2, 2021
John, I refer you to Dom’s response above, and to others like that.
From his replies you will see that I am far from alone in my view.
I wouldn’t say that identifying a small group of people as atypical of the public generally was an insult either. I probably am myself too.
June 2, 2021
âHow people treat other people is a direct reflection of how they feel about themselves.â ~Paulo Coelho
June 2, 2021
Most of the comments here under this article are in the spirit of pragmatic capitalism / Conservatism. You will find some ideological capitalists / Conservatives on most Conservative blogs. Let’s engage with those who write ideological capitalist commentary and why their ideology is as ineffectual and damaging – long term – as ideologists of any camp, whether socialist, social Liberal, whatever.
June 2, 2021
EdM who have you identified on this board’s regular commenters list are ‘ineffectual and damaging ideological capitalists’?
June 2, 2021
Some people like on all Tory sites put forward comments that are based on ideological capitalism as opposed to pragmatic capitalism. Already challenged a couple of people here. And as I said, it’s not black and white. Most of us are, from one degree or another, both ideological and pragmatic in our capitalism at least when it comes to economics in politics. What does bother me though are those who think being ideological is being tough / strong, it isn’t, it’s really weakness as its much harder to be a pragmatic capitalist / Conservative than an ideological one but much more effective in the long term.
June 3, 2021
EdM, I tried to look up a definition of ‘idealogical capitalist’ to get an idea of what you are accusing commenters of and it was difficult to find anything, I did find reports on pragmatic capitalism. So can you clarify please, because I don’t trawl the board to see who you have challenged, are you accusing me of ‘idealogical capitalism’ thinking because I’d like a definition and how you arrived at that?
If not me, as it was me you challenged, just give me the name of two regular posters here and in which way they are ‘idealogical capitalists’. Many thanks in advance.
June 2, 2021
Because he’s from Wales which is a failed socialist state.
June 2, 2021
I’m English, Ian.
Wales is doing rather well with its vaccination program too.
June 2, 2021
Is it a competition Martin? Do the English NHS know they’re in a competition lol.
June 2, 2021
Ask Ian – I replied to his specific allegation. I’m not interested in your question.
June 3, 2021
Wales is also to be commended for not demanding that its GPs hand over all our medical records to vested interest, unlike your England.
Good luck with that.
June 2, 2021
reply to reply….thats exactly what miserable wind up merchants get off on.
June 2, 2021
Why do you allow this chap and his soul mate, Andy, to be published? His only object is to insult your normal audience. A bit of censorship might be applied to the benefit of all.
June 3, 2021
JohnC. it is interesting that so many anti-Tory commenters come on this board every day but for goodness sakes don’t stop them. It sharpens up your thinking, forces you to research better, you don’t want to be like them so you record your sources for interesting facts. The only thing I would stop is totally ageist insults just as one would racist comments but I think John does a good job of that and Andy has cleaned up their act to be not quite so toxic, however, don’t you want to know that there are people like Andy who would totally impoverish pensioners and remove their State pension they were promised growing up in the designed national insurance scheme.
June 2, 2021
Mic. Were the truth only expresssd by 10%, it is no less the truth.
June 2, 2021
John asked for how people would actually use trains, not for “the truth” on how the public would, according to a particular small set of people who comment on his blog.
Beyond that, yes, but your comment is itself a truism.
June 2, 2021
Green measures are yet to hit. Few people will be able to afford cars. We need to think about that and as for hybrid working ? You can’t run half a railway any more than you can run half an eye. The infrastructure costs are hideous and people are guaranteed to want to use trains on the same day.
June 2, 2021
Social distancing renders passenger trains unviable. Masks make them unpleasant.
June 2, 2021
“Green measures are yet to hit. Few people will be able to afford cars.”
You realise that that is not a bug? It’s a feature.
JF
June 2, 2021
@37/6; “Few people will be able to afford NEW cars. “
There, corrected that for you…
June 2, 2021
We’ll see soon enough and we’ll also see what punitive measures there are for those that try to hang on to their ICE cars.
June 3, 2021
@NLA; More baseless scare stories.
June 2, 2021
jerry, do you think the poorer people will have problems with older car batteries or not?
June 3, 2021
@a-tracy; Not sure what your point is, are you suggesting lead acid batteries, or their direct replacements, will not be available? Also what has wealth got to do with things, I’ve known plenty of wealthy people who choose not to buy new cars, I’ve known plenty of ‘poor’ people who load themselves to the hilt with debt so they can appear ‘rich’.
June 3, 2021
OK Jerry, to clarify what I meant, I know several people that were offered second-hand battery-powered and hybrid company cars at quite a good cost (comparable with second-hand diesel/petrol cars) but they were scared that the cost of replacement battery units would be unaffordable for them and they felt it would cause problems at five years of age because of battery problems on their usual cars and the maintenance of these cars is more specialist and they wouldn’t be able to use their usual garage. That is what ‘wealth’ has ‘got to do with things’.
June 3, 2021
@a-tracy; No one is forcing the scrapping IC engined cars, or have I missed the Green/White Paper or actual Bill that will prevent people buying and selling second hand non EV vehicles beyond 2030?
June 4, 2021
@jerry; my point was that few people will be able to afford second hand EV vehicles because of the cost of replacement battery cells and the high costs of maintenance on these vehicles that require specialist garages.
I agree that at first IC engineered cars will be available. This is a long term project and forgive me for worrying about a lot of my family members who buy second-hand cars and currently find it easy and convenient to fix them up, buy fuel for them and run them for many years.
June 2, 2021
This is a problem of policy not finance. An electric car is cheaper over its lifetime than a petrol car. Charging an electric car is significantly less expensive than refuelling a petrol car. Because they are smarter insuring them is cheaper. And because they require significantly less maintenance than a petrol car, electric cars are cheaper to own too.
However they are more expensive to buy. The cost is front loaded.
This is why you need to elect politicians who recognise this and who put in place policies to help you. You ainât gonna be able to buy new petrol cars for much longer anyway so why not vote for people whoâll help rather than constantly voting for those who moan?
June 2, 2021
“You ain’t gonna be able to buy new petrol cars for much longer…” Um. Yeah. That’s the problem Boris has created within an 8 year time scale.
See mass installation of charging points yet ? I don’t !
And you don’t live in a hi rise or a terrace do you, Andy.
June 2, 2021
Prices of electric powered cars will reduce as their sales gradually increase.
June 2, 2021
John, you say ‘Sealed freight containers on trains could assist with streamlining border checks and controls’. I remember that long ago, as container traffic started to expand that there was a scheme to make Didcot an inland container port for just that reason. If I recall correctly, it was scuppered by the unions and came to nothing.
June 2, 2021
Martyn
Indeed it would seem to make perfect sense to join up our container ports to such inland Lorry hubs (perhaps six or more) for ongoing more local distribution.
But the cost of laying the track ,and the destruction of land and buildings would be huge.
June 2, 2021
@Martyn G; Why would the Trade Unions scupper investment that would create more employment, and thus likely an increase in union membership?!
Stop always trying to blame the unions or the left when the problem was the willingness of govt to make (or see through promised) such investment, the plug was pulled in the early 1960s and again in the 1980s.
June 2, 2021
Because, sadly, the Trades Unions in many countries have lost sight of their original and excellent purpose?
In S Africa, there have been attempts to introduce local public buses (much needed) and to re-introduce and upgrade rail services. Unfortunately, (Criminals Ed)frequently resort to complete vandalism to prevent such services, which would indeed provide much-needed employment and help those who have work but cannot afford private transport. The taxes are like mini-buses, carrying up to 12 people who can hop and off, both at formal locations and along the roads. However, as an example, last week in the area of Port Elizabeth in the Eastern Cape, R12 millions’ worth of new public-service buses were set fire to and destroyed quite deliberately, as they are seen to be possibly reducing the call on taxis. New trains are often vandalised as are new tracks and the necessary cables, so there is effectively no reliable train service in most of the country.
June 2, 2021
Well, it’s a long time ago now Jerry, but I do recall the dockers, the haulage people and others being against it. What seemed to be a sensible idea the time, for whatever reasons fell by the wayside. The A34 main route north from Portsmouth and Southampton would have seen much reduced HGV traffic, unlike today when tailbacks and stoppages are pretty common, not just because of HGV traffic but it certainly doesn’t help.
June 2, 2021
jerry, what do you think of Unions scuppering investment that leads to more technological improvement and less human work? Like ticket machines, ordering your ticket from your phone including transfers, driverless trains, streamlined warehouse functions, robot lifting equipment, computerised record keeping, appointments booked online no requirement for receptionists, online triaged (maybe with the night shift done by GPs in New Zealand where it is day time there?)
What would you think of more online learning lessons mass distributed, delivered to all pupils determined by the ability of that pupil rather than age the same throughout England?
June 2, 2021
For years from the mid sixties we had one in Stratford East London. I think it is now the Olympic park.
June 2, 2021
+1
Remember it well, branch line to Battersea Power Station as well, and actually visited it during my apprenticeship when it was working, the heat within the generation system also provided heating for local houses either side of the river.
Lots of Towns had marshalling yards for local traffic at the time.
June 2, 2021
We have the international TIR system which does exactly that. I’m sure you’ve seen the little blue and white plaques on the back of truck containers.
June 2, 2021
Not easy in the smallish UK for most rail freight to compete with road as you have the two end journeys to make anyway. When we get self drive vehicles it become even harder. As with passengers rail only really makes much sense when lots of people (lots of freight) wants to make the same, longish journey at the same time. In most cases once you have loaded up to make the journey to the station (or depot) you might as well drive all the way directly if you have to drive at each end anyway.
June 2, 2021
Excellent piece yesterday by Charles Moore on government spending and waste taking us back to the inflationary and strike riven mess of 1978/9. The difficulty of opening small business or charity bank accounts due to red tape making it unprofitable.
Also the lunacy that is going on at Cambridge with the vice chancellor being paid nearly ÂŁ400k to attempt to destroy Cambridge University. He concludes:- âIt seems likely that Prof Toope let his race adviser, Dr Nicola Rollock, take Report + Support off Culture Shiftâs shelf and impose it without consultation upon one of the six or so greatest universities in the world.â No more money from me for them until this agenda is driven out. It was bad enough having the second rate dope Dame Sally Davies (Ex. Nanny on Chief) made master of Trinity College. Do you usually not need a Nobel Price of something?
June 2, 2021
Nobel Prize I meant (peace, economics and literature should not count here).
June 2, 2021
It used to be that Heads of House at Oxford and Cambridge were elected from among the Fellows of the College, and in turn the Vice-Chancellor was elected from among the Heads of House. All these people were academics first and foremost, and regarded administrative duties as part of the price they paid for being able to pursue their research. Sadly nowadays they have been replaced by people who see university administration as a career in its own right and are bureaucrats by nature, whose main interest is enlarging their empires and their telephone-number salaries (generally in inverse proportion to the academic prestige of their universities).
June 2, 2021
+1
June 2, 2021
Exactly. Also freight will have to use the same rails as passenger and passenger always takes precedence. ‘Use overnight’ will say the ‘experts’, thereby delaying freight aby at least 12 hours if it all runs well. Great idea if you are waiting for a timed delivery.
June 2, 2021
Goods in transit aren’t people. They don’t have friends, family, meetings or other business or pleasure activities to take part in. Just-in-Time deliveries are all very well for companies who save on warehousing and stockholding costs but Heavy Goods Vehicles delay passenger traffic on motorways and other roads. One fully laden HGV travelling at 60 mph does about 100,000 times as much damage to the road surface as a light passenger car at the same speed.
If you want your timed delivery to arrive on time you must expect to pay more for it.
June 2, 2021
Design sensible, accessible places where a half-mile stretch of extra freight train wait line, which would allow release of delayed or poor timetabled congested passenger trains to go past. Eliminate freight on lines during rush-hours. Not so different as banning lorries in towns during rush-hour, school runs etc.
June 2, 2021
I used to travel to London once a month, to do cultural stuff. Until that opens up again, fully, I won’t be bothering. And I note, again, that venues NOT dependent on public money are getting back to work more quickly than those that are heavily subsidised.
June 2, 2021
You must have HMR&C in mind.
June 2, 2021
Still trying to pay a CGT bill from September last year. HMRC threatening fines for late payment but won’t agree to accounts calculation.
June 2, 2021
This is the month for most companies to start paying back their bounce-back covid govt backed bank loans…….and most aren’t even back to full trading ? I can see a lot of SMEs defaulting
June 2, 2021
Indeed but you can get six month extra holiday and change them to 10 years to repay rather than seven.
June 2, 2021
Ian Wragg
You’re supposed to give in and pay what they say.
June 2, 2021
P.S. I would also have travelled by train to Royal Ascot in a couple of weeks’ time. But today I’ve learned that to enter the racecourse I would have to have an LF test result and then undergo two PCR tests. This despite the fact that the train journey would be the most dangerous part of the excursion to vaccinated-me. This government continues to prove, on a daily basis, that it is incapable of making sound decisions in a timely fashion. It has no sense of proportion.
June 2, 2021
In answer to your last question, not a lot. As you know I spend most of my time in Spain. If I want to go to Valencia it is a 50 minute journey and costs aboutÂŁ6.50 return so I use a car train solution. Clean comfortable trains every 20 minutes.
In the UK I Would consider such an arrangement if I decided to go to London. In reality I would probably not bother going. Rail being too expensive and car parking and zone regulation being far too complex and expensive.
As you imply much could be done to attract other than bulk freight. If it could be relied upon it might attract the large freight truckers, assuming a financial incentive.
A car and passenger service over long distances, assuming it was financially attractive, might attract a following.
You will have to wait until the dust has settled on covid before our railways know what the potential market is, and how they plan to serve it.
June 2, 2021
The railway is like so many things in this country.
We had the first and the best and then we threw it away.
Liberalism, I imagine has been to blame.
June 2, 2021
agricola “In the UK I Would consider such an arrangement if I decided to go to London. In reality I would probably not bother going. Rail being too expensive and car parking and zone regulation being far too complex and expensive.” – +1
June 2, 2021
Why have the Spanish not kicked you Brexitists immigrants out yet? You voted to not let people have the same rights and privileges you do. They should send you packing.
June 2, 2021
Why would they do that? Should they throw out all the Americans, Australians, Indians etc as well – is that the way you think the EU should go? No wonder people voted to leave.
June 2, 2021
The Americans etc have always been required to have a visa. The Brexitist immigrants have never needed one. Until you voted to impose masses of bureaucracy on them.
Itâll be funny when you figure out youâll soon need a visa waiver to visit Benidorm. Delivered by people who promised you less red tape.
Oh, and Spain is in charge of immigration policy in Spain. Seeing that it is a sovereign country.
June 2, 2021
There is no visa requirement to visit Spain. Nor the US as it happens.
5m EU citizens have obtained the right to remain in the UK – about 5x the number of UK citizens in the EU. Do you remember saying how they would all want to leave or would be thrown out? Quite a vote of confidence in Brexit Britain wouldn’t you say?!
I’m afraid I have yet to make it to Benidorm. I will think of you with your chippy middle aged snobbery if I ever do.
June 2, 2021
People lived, worked, studied and took long holidays in Spain way before the EU existed.
My parents had a holiday home in Spain in the 1970s.
They stayed there every year of their retirement for months on end
Bit of paperwork done by a local expert and all local requirements were sorted.
June 2, 2021
@Andy
And that is just pure and utter nonsense. And you know it. Anyone from the other 26 countries in the EU can enter Spain and live and work there and there isn’t a think they can do about it. Sovereign country? I think not.
I am sure you will be please to know I voted to Leave – and have an Irish passport. The best of both worlds.
June 2, 2021
Andy
The sooner you wake up to the fact that successive Prime Ministers over many decades have shafted and sold this country down the river, the better. It has nothing to do with pensioners or people voting to leave the EU.
You are not the only one dissatisfied with the state of the country, it is not all about you.
June 2, 2021
err…..could they like the money?
June 2, 2021
Andy, “An estimated 3.6 million EU-born migrants lived in the UK in 2019, making up 5.5% of the UK population, In 2019, around 8% of all workers in the UK were born in an EU country.” source migration observatory.
How many of the ex-pats in Spain claim from Spanish welfare and are a cost on their health service without billing back all charges to the UK?
Personally, I have no problem with the free movement of workers, if Cameron had got a couple of the mild concessions he asked from the EU that Juncker turned down out of hand I think the 2016 result may have been different. But then I would put asylum seekers straight to work, no benefits without work for anyone capable of work.
June 2, 2021
Certainly, I think that people applying for residency/citizenship in countries should have to make a solemn declaration that they support the respective constitution of whatever land it might be, as many already require.
Those which are members of the European Union have generally incorporated that status into theirs.
If you cannot support that constitution then you can either lie or leave.
What would we have here, then?
June 2, 2021
MiC
Interesting challenge to many recently arrived here in the UK who might have a difficulty in accepting that requirement.
Presumably you would therefore favour expelling these refuseniks?
June 3, 2021
Yes, absolutely, I would support the expulsion of any who did not so solemnly – and bindingly – declare.
However, since the UK does not have a written constitution, that is, a constitution at all by modern standards, it’s a bit of a moot point, what?
June 2, 2021
Too kind, Andy. You’re getting soft. Surely people who disagree with the EU should be imprisoned, at the very least?
June 2, 2021
They can’t afford to do without the Brits. We are a big part of their economy.
June 2, 2021
Yes, brilliant service to Barcelona too. Cheap, clean and on time to the second. A far cry from trains here.
June 2, 2021
So being a member of the European Union was never any excuse for the UK’s rotten rail services then, was it?
June 2, 2021
MiC
If you want to see railways at their very best go to Japan, they know how it’s done.
June 3, 2021
I’m sure, Steve, but that has nothing to do with my point.
June 2, 2021
Size and space. Our cramped and crowded land with its 19th century infrastructure is bound to struggle in this area.
June 2, 2021
Mark B
Transport links at either end
Therein lies the problem. Well designed infrastructure to get passenger’s to where they need to go are sadly inadequate or non existent. Development of out of town shopping centres with no adjacent rail stations, who really wants to carry all the shopping home from the station to put in a car or on a bus and then unload it again when you eventually get home.
June 2, 2021
Several towns that I knew had dedicated freight stations running into the centre.
That whole track ( very near the now HS2 destruction zone) was ripped up, probably under Beeching.
And of course the freight depots went too.
I believe that generally the original and sane intention was to have railways coming into towns , as the stagecoaches did.
However, time and tide and filthy governments stopped all that.
Bizarrely I have read that socialism comes into this too!
Railways running into towns are regarded by the Left as being socially divisive. âThe wrong side of the trackâ narrative.
Iâve heard it all now…well considering the present lunacy, probably not!
June 2, 2021
If it is still there I will use it.
I no longer commute to work but would use a train if I had to. Daily âcongestion zoneâ charges make it expensive to drive into the centre of town. The zone area could expand outwards.
Parking on Waterloo bridge for a night out is now a thing of the past.
Long distance rail travel, on saver fares and with railcard discount, would be nice if the country ever opens up again.
June 2, 2021
London emission Zone to be increased/expanded to include all areas inside South and North Circular roads on 25th October. Then ÂŁ12.50 per day to enter plus the long standing congestion charge.
Birmingham emission Zone started yesterday, but computer system for payment failed, so suspended for 2 weeks.
Other emission Zones planned all over the Country due to government regulation on air quality.
So the wealthy can pollute at will, because they can afford to, for others ever more restrictions and complications.
June 2, 2021
residents can apply for 90% discount.The way things are going in London the Mayor will levy it whether you have a car or not!
June 2, 2021
It has long been clear to me that emission zone charging is quite the wrong approach to dealing with the much more limited pollution problems we face. To begin with, most pollution is not related to car traffic. To demonstrate that point I offer a chart for PM2.5 emissions
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/qy2jH/1/
and for NOx emissions
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/VBL64/1/
Secondly, days when pollution becomes more obtrusive are usually defined by the weather. To the extent that traffic still contributes, it does so more because of the anti car measures that slow the traffic and force it to follow longer routes etc.. Moreover, they are infrequent (just a few days a year getting to moderate or higher pollution levels), as this link reveals:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/air-quality-statistics/days-with-moderate-or-higher-air-pollution-includes-sulphur-dioxide#days-with-moderate-or-higher-air-pollution
The measures do nothing substantive to solve the few problems that remain. In any event, government standards are now so exacting that the impact of marginally exceeding them on health is not accurately measureable, and may be not statistically different from zero. Only larger excursions, usually linked to problems at particular sites, merit measures to tackle them.
I did note that Andy Street, the West Midlands mayor, has noticed that the Birmingham charge may not after all be appropriate.
June 2, 2021
It would certainly be a good idea to move frieght off the motorways onto railways. I never understood why Royal Mail stopped using the overnight train to Scotland. But if you want to enjoy a day out at the seaside or a visit to the west country for eg, you have to go to a mainline station in London first which adds time to the journey.
As HS2 cuts a swathe through the remaining English ancient woodland, I wonder if the completed line will only make jobs in London more available to those living in Birmingham. Who wants a day out in Brum, what is the attraction, the Bullring?
June 2, 2021
Who wants a day out in London ? Filthy place.
June 2, 2021
I do!
June 2, 2021
What utter madness….HS2 is still going ahead
June 2, 2021
Reading has trains to the West Country, Bournemouth etc.
June 2, 2021
Used to be something called manufacturing.
June 2, 2021
I will never set foot on a train again. I have no desire to pay a lot of money to be treated like cattle. My nearest station is a 20 minute drive away. And my options are Exeter one way and London the other. Great if you just happen to want to go to either of those places in an overcrowded, airtight tube. No thanks.
June 2, 2021
Dear Mike–Agree absolutely about the airtight tube. Give me openable windows any time. I once had the horror of being in one of those little first class sections when a chap who had imbibed far too much vomited all over it and some of my fellow passengers. Silly me but I actually rang British Rail or whatever it was to complain (the chap had tried to open those sliding windows at the top but failed) to be told that openable windows carry the risk that it is apparently possible, if one leans out as far as possible for one’s head to be sliced off by a passing signal post or whatever. Good riddance I say, improving the gene pool for the future. Of course some few really high speed trains (Cnannel Tunnel etc) have to be closed in. Trains should be corridor again all the way through which would be at least some mitigation. Progress on trains as on so much else has been a joke. Adding insult to injury we are told the problem is too many passengers?!
June 2, 2021
@Leslie Singleton
Couldn’t agree more. I particularly hate the electric doors on the loos. I have a horror of the train breaking down and being stuck in there. Why do they have to be electronic? Any half-wit can close a door and slide a bolt across. No, stuff them. As soon as a train stops for more than a minute, I feel the panic rising at the airlessness.
I used to commute into London by train in the 1960s and 1970s. With the old ‘slam door’ trains that had windows that slid down. As schoolboys we used to hang out of them on summer days. I don’t recall anyone losing their head.
June 2, 2021
+1
I used to love train travel and was quite happy to get a slam door up to London on my own and come back late. Electric doors…electrically accessed loos…claustrophobia and fear won!
A friend of mine used to go up for concerts and get back at 2am. No worries.
She stopped when she began to feel unsafe.
Our lovely railways were ruined by the great ruiners…liberal governments.
June 2, 2021
That’s privatisation for you.
June 2, 2021
Off topic. I see your government is refusing to tell us how much we are paying to the EU. A request under the Freedom of Information act has been refused on the basis that revealing how much we are paying them might prejudice the relationship between us and them!
Again, your government is despicable and arrogant. Itâs OUR money!!
Canât you find out and tell us? Or someone like Bill Cash?
June 2, 2021
The formula for calculating it is in the withdrawal agreement. You can work it out for yourself.
The final payments for your Brexit are made in 2064 – when I will be in my 90s and my children will be in their 50s. Having wasted their taxes their entire life paying for your folly. No doubt you get a full state pension which I am paying for too.
June 2, 2021
The exit cost is c. ÂŁ40bn, and as you say it stretches over many years.
It arises from the terrible negotiating strategy of Mrs May caving into the demand for sequenced negotiations . On the other hand we save ÂŁ12bn net pa – and rising – for ever. Also we are clear of any liability for eurozone bailout schemes, such as the present âŹ390bn âcovid recoveryâ fund, of which of course there must be many more similar to come.
The jury is out on Brexit, but thereâs no question thereâs a saving for taxpayers in no longer paying the EU. Do the sums, itâs not that complicated.
June 2, 2021
The jury isnât out on Brexit. You have imposed an embarrassing disaster on our country and are too gutless to admit it.
The Cabinet and government was packed full of Brextists. Johnson, Gove, Davis, Fox, Patel, Raab, Baker, Braverman etc etc etc. I appreciate their collective competence is close to zero but if they could have come up with something better, why didnât they? They were in the room.
We will undo your Brexit in due course and we will jail the perpetrators for the deliberate harm them have caused to our country. In the meantime grow a pair and take some responsibility for your own mess. Blaming everyone else for your own ignorance and incompetence is just pathetic.
June 2, 2021
your pathetic rage is funny, there is no disaster as you forecast there would be. The govt is riding high in the polls, the UK economy is likely to outperform the eurozone in the coming years – the key test of the success of Brexit. the UK vaccine programme (the one you said we shouldn’t do) is a triumph, and of course there has been a great success with rolling over all the EU trade deals and now adding to them. you said that would never happen – have you forgotten?
No-one is arguing to put you in prison because you’ve turned out to be wrong, so grow up and try to argue your case rationally.
you have of course been unable to answer the points on the money – because what I have posted is correct.
June 2, 2021
You lefties talk just like the old dictators Mao Stalin et al.
” jail the perpetrators”
Show trials with andy as the judge
Off to the Gulag with you.
It is a shame your mob needs to get elected first.
June 2, 2021
Well Said, Richard.
June 2, 2021
Richard 1
40 billion is nowt compared to the 120 billion (and rising) squandered on the HS2..the new China line.
June 2, 2021
Someone will be paying for your pension, if you reach state pension age, or will you refuse it on principle..
June 2, 2021
Iâve saved for my own pension. Itâll mostly be gone by the time I get to that age. Taken away by your generation I bet.
June 2, 2021
Blame Brown and his taxing of dividends received by pension funds plus the Zero Rate Interest Policy.
Just work harder and pay more in.
That’s what we did.
June 2, 2021
I have also saved for my own pension, in addition to the state pittance.
June 2, 2021
And in turn his children’s pensions. It’s the way its always been but Andy sees it as an excuse to have a go at pensioners yet again. It’s really rather funny in a schoolboy way.
June 2, 2021
I think the word ‘pensioner’ should be abolished. It’s become a pejorative term.
June 2, 2021
Andy, what do you propose doing with all the pension credit pensioners?
Other people with over 40 years NI contributions from themselves and their employers would have paid enough in from their contributions if invested privately.
June 2, 2021
@Andy
If only that were true. If it were true, why was a FOI request for that information denied? And denied on the basis that revealing the information could prejudice the relationship between the EU and us! The mind boggles.
June 2, 2021
I do hope you live to be 90, Andy. Time to reflect then on all the hatred for your country and its older people you’ve vomited.
June 2, 2021
Samara Gold
âWho wants a day out in Brum, what is the attraction, the Bullring?â
In my case, a visit to the old-school pubs of Digbeth before they get pulled down. Great pub architecture, draught mild. We had a great time on saver tickets
June 2, 2021
Yes, but are you prepared to pay a premium price to get to and fro a bit quicker via HS2? No, I thought not.
June 2, 2021
Nigel.. when you say a bit quicker by HS 2.. Does your metrication of a ‘bit’ refer to 20 minutes saved traveling to London, that is, after one has spent an extra hour driving to the nearest terminal of the New China line.
June 2, 2021
Or the CBSO, the Birmingham Royal Ballet, and the Wellington Real Ale pub. Granted there aren’t many attractions in the small city centre, but it is a lot more pleasant to shop in than overcrowded London. A short train ride away are Stratford-Upon-Avon, Warwick Castle, and the Severn Valley (heritage) Railway.
June 2, 2021
Our Company is currently discussing going back to the office which we will need to do in order to conduct training in particular. We are considering 2 days in, 3 days at home , as the new model and as a consequence were interested in the discounted low use monthly and annual tickets.
As far as we are able to tell the discount for using the service 8 times in a month as opposed to 20 would be something like 10%.
If that is the case you wonder why they bother with it at all .These are hugely expensive travel costs and it gives us a headache with no viable way to employ staff in the office and at home , we do not want to go back to the office as we have found many advantages to home work .
Have we got this wrong or is it really as useless as it seems to be, there is no pricing yet just a few examples so if anyone knows better I would be interested ?
The only option for us will be full time home work with occasional office meetings but its is far form ideal
June 2, 2021
Yup.
The railway costs are still there however little you use it. They have to be paid for somehow – and all the upgrades that took place recently based on never ending passenger growth – brand new station and hubs and fleets of brand new trains.
There are going to be terrifying costs because of lockdown and working from home, not that WFH is a bad thing but such sudden upheaval cannot be absorbed painlessly.
June 2, 2021
Newmania
“The only option for us will be full time home work with occasional office meetings but its is far form ideal”
Come off it ! Stay at home, as many coffe breaks as you like, extra long lunch break, nip to the shops whenever you run out of biscuits.
While those of us who have to graft for a living doing manual work don’t get such luxuries.
June 2, 2021
Not forgetting the Aston Villa ground. Birmingham City is more humdrum. Nearby West Bromwich Albion(Black Country) is the highest stadium in the football league and Wolverhampton Wanderers is much improved.
I have used motorised transport for all of these, though I would consider the train in future.
There is Edgbaston too, of course.
June 2, 2021
Very timely posting. It would be good to see investment in rail freight transport hubs, with branch lines to them built into cities and towns, or wherever the immediate user of the rail freight is most likely to be.
I would like to use the railways as I did before the government enforced lockdowns – going to London from time to time, and using the train not the car on long-distance journeys especially where there is a direct train.
I look forward to using trains normally once all restrictions are lifted on 21st June as promised.
June 2, 2021
Rail freight only makes sense if it is end to end, with no change of mode. As soon as you start having marshalling yards of containers and multiple handling the costs escalate while the freight goes nowhere.
Running coal trains from mines or ports to power stations or oil trains from refineries directly to large industrial customers makes good economic sense. Likewise container freight to or from a port to a large factory that can handle a trainload at once. Making it viable for inland distribution means avoiding the extra handling, and using vehicles that can go to destinations, not railheads. Automated vehicles (or at least ones that can operate as automated on a dedicated ex-rail roadway, even if they have to be driven by humans the last miles) avoid the need for cranes and rail yards and time lost.
June 2, 2021
Passengers:
1) A genuine carnet system, such as they have had for years on the Paris Metro allowing pre-purchase of 10 journeys at any time.
2) Bring back the spacious guardâs van so that it is easy for people to put their bike on the train and for businesses to send small items by rail along the line.
3) Price: I recently made a day trip from Notts to Newcastle on the splendid E Coast Mainline. The price on a Saturday was what it used to be for the morning peak trip. The journey time overall for door to door was similar. For many people the price is a deterrent.
4) End social distancing both on the trains and in the stations and the outlets that serve them. Ditto mask wearing. It makes the whole thing very unpleasant and is another incentive to use the car.
Freight:
1) Cost is the big deterrent. Railways are ideal for moving bulk goods. However, for shorter journeys they are expensive because of the need to get the goods to and from the relevant rail head. It involves three journeys not one – triple handling. With many businesses using a JIT model time is also an issue.
2) Freight trains are heavy and require greater space on the track thus using capacity. They are also slower with the same effect.
3) Building additional rail capacity is expensive and long drawn out – vide HS2. The green lobby is all for reducing road transport in principle, but object to a railway near them. As ever choices have to be made unless you want to retreat to the Stone Age.
June 2, 2021
I love travelling on trains, but for leisure travel where one wants to go door to door with luggage, it is neither practical nor cost effective.
There needs to be some means of reliable waiting mass transport at each end to finish the journey. Taxis or Uber does not fulfil that role without some sharing or minibuses.
June 2, 2021
I suppose those who considered providing mass transport to your house from the station decided it was not economical.
June 2, 2021
And therein lies the problem Fred – but a bookable minibus share arriving at departure time and departing at arrival time may well be economic. Uber style technology could hold the key. Package holiday companies already do this with flights and delivery to hotels.
There still remains the issue of transport around your holiday destination for the week / two weeks without one’s own car but the end to end journey would be solved.
June 2, 2021
I’ve only really used rail in the past to go Reading to London for museums and business but only because of the pain of traffic congestion and parking in the city, I now avoid London completely.
Long distance north-south trips I used air transport for business but car for leisure because the train is simply too expensive and an incomplete transport for family travel.
Rail is simply a dedicated roadway which allows more or less predictable schedules but is inflexible and an incomplete solution for door to door. With robotics and autonomous vehicles I can see it being an excellent distribution network for goods but not as a personal transport solution, unless you wish all human activity to be confined to a few cities that add local transport facilities, like London. But I wouldn’t want to live or work there.
June 2, 2021
A lot will depend on if we are still forced to use masks on public transport, and what other restriction may be in place.
If restaurants and places of interest open up normally then I, for example, would make the occasional trip by train to London, off peak.
Great British Rail really needs to survey the people of the UK to see what destinations they would use trains to visit, and then tailor their services accordingly.
Somehow I don’t think we are going to see real normality restored, so TFL will continue to soak up taxpayers money well into the future.
June 2, 2021
This is another opportune moment to pose a particularly unanswerable question about HS2: “If, hypothetically, HS2 opened for business tomorrow, what would be the cost of an ordinary return from Birmingham to London?” In the context of this particular service, the answer would throw considerable light upon Sir John’s question about what use Mr Average will make of the railway.
June 2, 2021
+1
June 2, 2021
The real cost would mean only millionaires would use it, so whatever is decided as the going ticket rate the total cost will be borne by tax-payers forever.
June 2, 2021
Off topic:
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/0602/1225485-northern-ireland-protocol/
“Senior British government sources say technical discussions around 30 areas of disagreement with the European Union on the Northern Ireland Protocol have resulted in definite progress on just two of the issues.”
But that’s OK, because:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/01/northern-ireland-get-first-royal-town-part-union-charm-offensive/
“Northern Ireland to get first ‘Royal’ town as part of Union charm offensive”
But people from Great Britain visiting Royal Hillsborough in the Northern Ireland Condominium will have to leave their dog at home or sort out its EU compliant rabies vaccination before they travel.
June 2, 2021
It’s just a silly gimmick, but also an inflammatory one, which will result in lots of defaced signage no doubt.
I doubt the Queen is in the least bothered about that daft yacht either.
June 3, 2021
The Queen actually had tears in her eyes when Britannia was retired. It provided escape from the almost 365/24 job expected of her.
June 3, 2021
Yes, but that was then.
June 2, 2021
Itâs good to know you are keen to see more freight transported on the rail network.
We can argue about a state funded rail network that I support.
However the key issue about post Covid commuters is one that needs to wait until we know for sure what the future will be.
One thing for sure higher unemployment
Equally less commuters means less small businesses in hospitality so more unemployment.
Flexible working is a good solution to some problems of rail capacity for commuters
The roll out of city and town congestion charges will mean more use of public transport
Driving licences would be better having a shorter renewal time scaling down to annual renewal for over 70s depending on health questions.
This will reduce car use
Overall I do feel there is greater value in retaining and investing in the rail network by exploring options to open some of the closed lines
We lag behind Spain France and Italy in the rail network for cheap and efficient services
June 2, 2021
Well, bless my boots!
They are trumpeting HS2 as a means of keeping 1.5 million lorries off the roads and thus cutting CO2 emissions.
Apparently, they will be using freight trains to deliver aggregate FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF HS2 and that this counts as carbon reduction!
Talk about logic…talk about GREENWASHING!
Talk about using HS2 as a scam, virtue signalling white elephant. How utterly disgusting.
What about the countryside carnage?
Destroy your country kowtowing to globalism.
Still, I guess theyâve already achieved their main goal with plague modelling.
We might just as well have had a nuclear war.
How do you quarry 10 million âtonnesâ of aggregate without CO2 emissions?
June 2, 2021
”How do you quarry 10 million âtonnesâ of aggregate without CO2 emissions?”
An afternoon debating who will be the greenest and a bowl of lentil soup with carrie and bags of magic electricity beans
June 2, 2021
You need to keep up the promise of money back if the trains are too late as we used to have with Virgin (30 mins late money back/15 mins a % back). Freight trains too.
Planners need to look at big people movement locations: football stadiums, hospitals, key railway stations, and how people can get in to them. A town with over 33,000 people one train per hour usually late so you can miss another train that only goes once per hour, poor public transport connections to the rail station, extra 10 mins journey cost to go to the key station to go anywhere else with few connecting train times to major locations. No regular connections from Crewe Station to the main hospital insufficient parking at that hospital especially for people forced to go there for covid jabs so they get stressed unable to hit their appointment time even arriving 20-30 minutes before their slot, expensive parking at the rail station (ÂŁ12 per day) makes small journeys into the nearest Cities not worthwhile, no interconnections to main branch-lines east-west.
Virgin was much better on the west coast mainline, now there are grumpy staff, drink services cut frequently, dirty toilets, wifi not working, it is all gone rather an unpleasant proposition so my family all prefer to drive now, plus the station parking charges cover the petrol cost alone, you don’t save any time going by train either.
Local station not good for wheelchair or suitcase access, lack of parking on one side of the station because they sold the car park off to a pub! The station only functions once per hour so it is not worth staffing it but this also makes you feel unsafe because it can get a little rough at night out in Liverpool commute time so I wouldn’t want to use it alone.
June 2, 2021
Simple answer to your question John, would only use a train when absolutely necessary, and only when travelling alone due to cost, and only during the day for safety sake (feel uncomfortable at night)
Many years ago we used to regularly visit parents in the London suburbs by car, and would go into Central London for Theatres, the Parks, Museums, and for general historical interest etc. sometimes used the train, but no longer.
Last used a train 2 years ago (out of rush hour) to go to Richmond where car parking charges are high, as could walk to destination at both ends. Cost over ÂŁ20.00 return.
Parents long since passed away, London now has too many obstacles/downsides to travel into it for pleasure/interest. Train Fares too high, trains often too crowded and dirty, Parking when you can find it too expensive, now emission charges and congestion charges etc
Still go on the occasional theatre trip, but that is organised with a local theatre group, where we are taken and collected by coach from Wokingham, so only requires a short car journey to the Wokingham Hub where there is free parking.
Had a train holiday in Switzerland a few years ago with friends, and it was an absolute pleasure, reasonable price, trains run to time, were clean and not crowded, heavily discounted ticket for the week which included Bernina and Glacier Express.
June 2, 2021
we use that theatre group too – -but the organisation, ticketing, coach hire, timing, negotiating 50ish tickets per performance is done free – the profit going to a charity.
June 2, 2021
+1
Indeed it does.
June 2, 2021
Alan Jutson,
There was a Fly/Rail arrangement where you could check your baggage in at Heathrow and it would be sent on directly to your Swiss hotel. You transferred by train without encumbrance. Same on the return leg, check your luggage in at the rail station and pick it up at the other end. Very civilised. In the days when Switzerland was more affordable.
June 2, 2021
railways are not reliable enough for much of long distance freight traffic, thats the real problem
June 2, 2021
I intend to resume using the railways as before, once the silly facemask rule is dropped. I remember pre-privatisation when the railway had spare stock for football specials and excursions to the seaside. Now the division into TOCs and the decline of loco-hauled services generates inflexibility and gives rise to such things as the disgraceful overcrowding on Summer Saturdays on the Derby-Matlock service as hikers cram onto one-coach services.
Reply Yes, use of the railways soared in the early years of privatisation.
June 2, 2021
Reply to reply. The problem is that they privatised using the wrong model. They should have listened to John Major and resurrected the old railway companies (GWR, LNER etc.), then the only difficulties would come where you had to cross between them. A lot of money is spent on people interfacing between the ROSCOs and TOCs and whoever owns the tracks this week.
June 2, 2021
Beresford,
I have used the Derby to Matlock service. Matlock seems to be best suited to motorcyclists now.
The North Wales coastal service for Holyhead, Conway, Llandudno was even worse. The TOC did not want to put on additional coaches as it did not suit them. In the end, they decided to abandon running rail services in Wales.
June 2, 2021
I use the train every time I need to go from Reading to London and back, as I can relatively easily get to Reading station by bus. Then wherever it is in London, the tube or bus system can usually bring me to a walking distance of where I need to be.
Overall a Reading PlusBus ticket (ÂŁ3.50) and a train ticket including six-areas-London Travel Card for the day (bought at least a week in advance, ÂŁ30 for congestion charge plus parking) but it is far less stressing.
June 2, 2021
Hefner,
Londoners with a Freedom Pass can now travel to Reading for free on TFL trains. I have used it to get to Marlow paying for just the Maidenhead to Marlow element on the Marlow âDonkeyâ train.
June 2, 2021
Thanks a lot, Peter, for the tip, but doesnât one need a London address to get such a Freedom Pass (I think I had read such a thing when FP had been announced). But Iâll check.
June 2, 2021
Yes you would need to be a London resident. So it only works for Londoners.
Unless you could get the qualifying zones extended to Reading.
June 2, 2021
Is it really what I had written: sorry, it should have been: â lower than ÂŁ30) whereas by car it is higher than ÂŁ50 for congestion plus parking)â.
The editing signs in the blogâs new format including the mathematical symbols for âlower thanâ and âhigher thanâ create havoc.
Who’s the computer âgeniusâ who convinced Sir John to change the old system âŠ
June 2, 2021
First, train companies need to make it easier to buy a ticket. Why on Earth can we still not just tap in at many stations? Itâs 2021 – TFL have been using tap in and out technology for nearly 20 years. But many national rail stations still only deal with paper tickets. Why?
Then season tickets need to be made much more flexible. Perhaps something where you can travel 3 days in any seven. Or where you can buy a book of 10 return tickets. Basically something which reflects that Monday to Friday in the office is now dead.
But then we should look at station car parks. Many around London will simply not be needed in the same way again. It is a great opportunity to replace these with multi stories – which take up much less space – and then to sell the extra land for housing or to supermarkets. It is time to reimagine lots of things. Sadly we have the wrong people in government to do it.
June 2, 2021
Every time I plan a trip the cost of going by rail is always about five times more expensive than by car and less convenient âŠ.so in the main its cost
June 2, 2021
Infinitely more important than the final shape of our railways is the financial settelment between the UK & EU that was agreed on our departure. The Treasury and the government are avoiding disclosing this. It is the electorates money you are handng over so we have a right to know. The severance payment, the bill for EU pensions and every last penny we are expected to pay should be in the public domain. Something useful for the opposition to get their teeth into. And do not forget our interest in all the EU property we have contributed to and monies we have lent to them. Time for one of your letters to our Chancellor and his response.
June 2, 2021
Easier and/or cheaper car parking at railway stations would be worth considering.
June 2, 2021
Whilst I agree with the idea of freight using the rail system, and some could and would benefit from using it, there will probably a greater amount of freight which would effectively have a similar problem that I would have, if I wanted to use rail instead of road.
For me, the nearest rail station is over 5 miles away and where I do my ‘weekly shop’. If I wanted to travel further afield, I would have to park the car in the nearest 24 hour car park, which is a good half mile away from the station. If I used a bus to get me to the station, I would have to walk at least a mile to the nearest route.
The reason I would not consider either of the above is because my hip replacement now sits amongst the other 5 million waiting for treatments/surgery and at present I cannot even walk (well hobble) a 100 yards before it gives up on me. As it is not life threatening, it will sit near the bottom of the list and no doubt still be there when I pop my clogs. As I have no desire to repeatedly ending up in a mucky heap on the pavement when my hip gives out and unable to get up without assistance, I think I will be sticking to my car.
June 2, 2021
“before privatisation BR was not interested in single waggon traffic but majored on oil, cement, aggregates, bricks, cars and the other large scale trainload customers. “
History as written by a Tory party whose Transport Minster unleashed Dr Beeching in the early 1960s, because the Ministers construction company built roads and he wanted more roads built…! Until then (the early 1960s) BR was very interested in wagon load freight, short trip-workings, servicing industrial sidings, marshalling yards etc, they ever built or had built small locomotives to do such trip-work. But when stations closed, either fully of just their goods yards, or entire routes, would be customers had no choice but to turn to road haulage and of course when goods need to travel miles by road to a railhead much will simply carry on to end destination, even (easily transferable, TIR sealed) multi-modal container traffic is not immune.
As for leisure use, British Rail used to do all you suggest, the very first Motor Fair I attended made use of an all inclusive train & entry ticket, cheaper than the normal rail fare alone. As for train/bus fare subsidies, surely cheaper to that then spend far more trying to frustrate any and all car use, even for those who have little or no choice when it comes to using their cars. I would have no problem if excess revenue from fuel and VED were used by the DfT to fund such subsidies if it leads to less traffic, less congestion, less (non CO2/NO2) pollution.
June 2, 2021
700 in 5 days? – PP is blatantly incompetent – or is she incredibly good at getting on with our extermination?
June 2, 2021
Yes 8,000 last year, so far 3,500 this year, and the summer only started yesterday.
Dinghy (with escorts) for them better than the train !.
June 2, 2021
I still can’t believe we’re paying the French to escort them half the way ?
June 2, 2021
B N n c
How many of those are going to disappear? More importantly how many are going to shipped out of here?
Spain can do it no messing straight on the boat from whence they came.
Why can’t we?
June 2, 2021
Too right Turbo. I haven’t spoken to anyone who thinks all these people just turning up on our shores is wrong. Quite clearly they are not refugees having had the money to get here in the first place. Just when is this going to stop and at what number? The ratio of men coming far outweighs the women. We will have a gender problem eventually.
June 2, 2021
The railway mangement needs to be far more imaginative about ways to attract freight, particularly long distance and bulky freight, off the roads, and with containers it should be possible. Given the benefits of getting traffic off the roads I should have thought this was at least as worthy of subsidy at the outset as passenger transport. It does not seem so long ago that many factories had their own sidings or even branch lines and reinstating this concept must be part of the way forward.
My own use of railways centres around travel to London, or other longer distances, but going to say, Newcastle or Edinburgh, it is quicker, cheaper and more comfortable, by air. The problem on shorter rail journeys centres around getting to the station, for which locally there is no convenient public transport and the high cost of parking once one is there, which is simply not economic for a sort journey so one inevitably goes the whole way by car.
June 2, 2021
Nothing will change on the railways until the unions are sorted out. They seem to object to every new innovation or change.
I suspect most goods yards and freight depots have now been built on and thus, there is a huge problem to overcome first.
People, including me, have got very used to next day delivery and by road is the only way to do it. I can remember when most large towns had big freight depots and many larger items came by BRS, but those depots are not there now and the cost to buy the land needed and the cost to build such facilities would be prohibitive.
There used to be a worker’s return ticket early in the morning but now that is the dearest time to travel.
When I have looked at travelling by train to the West Country or up to York, it’s cost was extortionate.
I saw no evidence of heavily discounted fares off peak. I saw very expensive extortionate fares at peak time and expensive fares off peak.
I would like to be able to use the railways for days out because I am no longer allowed to drive and my wheelchair user wife needs to get out for her own sanity sadly, railways are too dear for us to use them for leisure.
How about an unlimited daily or weekly ticket just as many continental countries do?
June 2, 2021
There have been massive changes on the railways. The replacement of signal boxes with centralised Power Signal Boxes and the mass redundancies that occurred with those. DOO, digital signalling, ERTMS in some areas, privatisation, the outsourcing of engineering, cleaning, training, closure of canteens and facilities, changes to working practices and contracts of employment…
June 2, 2021
A very good and thought provoking question.
For my Wife and I, as we are retired, we think that the answer is a fairly straightforward one.
We will only use public transport when it becomes more flexible and cheaper than running a car. Ownership of a car involves a financial commitment, so the public transport system has the unenviable task of trying to persuade us that it is cheaper and more convenient to use it instead of owning a car.
I suppose there is an alternative, we could sell the car and use public transport or taxis for shopping and then rent a car for particularly awkward journeys. The difficulty for the public transport system is that it costs less than ÂŁ1000 per year to keep our car on the road. Fares would need to be lowered dramatically for us to consider abandoning car ownership.
We do not need transport to achieve an income so we are lucky in that regard but neither of us have a desire to become a recluse. Short of something like a city break, where a car is not needed during the stay so would travel by train, we will continue to use a car for leisure and shopping.
June 2, 2021
As a railway enthusiast (with a live steam layout in our garden), I would use the train whenever possible, but living four miles from the sea in Dorset, the only way to get anywhere is to go into London first. That means crossing the capital from Waterloo to one of the other main line stations carrying all one’s luggage.
Even to get to Exeter, means a road trip to Salisbury first.
Then, of course, there is the issue of transport when you get to the nearest station to your ultimate destination. Furthermore, the railway is only cost effective when travelling alone. As soon as you add a second person, almost every journey is cheaper by car.
The end result is that we hardly ever travel by train and I suspect that this is the kind of calculation that people who don’t live in a city have to make. Like 90% of the population, we are being forced to pay more than ÂŁ4,000 per household for HS2 which we are never going to use.
June 2, 2021
+1 agree
June 2, 2021
And free travel for those living in London. Great public transport network and crap everywhere else.
June 2, 2021
John, ask the Royal Mail why they stopped using trains, they even have their own lines underground and stopped those, too much power in the hands of too few. There is plenty of competition on the roads, companies that compete have to improve productivity and response and service quality, quality driver retention, in all weather – trains and their workers don’t.
June 2, 2021
Railways cannot survive masks and social distancing.
June 2, 2021
Dear Mr Redwood,
Totally off topic: Would you consider (at some point in the near future) writing a blog about what the government is proposing to do about the daily illegal invasion that is going on at the minute?
Thank you.
June 2, 2021
You are not off topic, DaveM, as when the invasion is complete there will no longer be an England with or without railways.
June 2, 2021
I fear you’re correct – its an invasion
June 2, 2021
DaveM. I think alot of us would like to know that but it doesn’t seem to be important to this government.
June 2, 2021
answer: nothing.
June 2, 2021
What use will I make of the railway? I suspect I will not be able to use it as I will not have the electronic pass given only to the bovine vaccinated. The electronic pass called Track and Trace cost 37 billion; I cannot believe something costing that much has only one purpose.
June 2, 2021
Ooh look, John, here’s another.
June 2, 2021
Another letter you can write to the Business Secretary or anyone who accepts responsibility. Question, why are you allowing Ganfeng to buy up Bacanora, Cornish a lithium producer when Ganfeng are chinese and lithium is a vital ingredient in the production of batteries, not least for the electric cars you are in love with. Lithium is a strategic material, why are you allowing it to fall into chinese hands.
June 2, 2021
As I understand it, Bancora’s lithium mine is in Sonora, Mexico, and already Gangfeng owns 50% of the mine. Still, the sell off of UK assets (the company in AIM listed) to fund our deficits continues apace, and won’t be solved until we actually try to reduce our chronic trade deficit. Little sign of Cornish Lithium speeding up its projects in Cornwall though, and it would be no surprise if China managed to snaffle that too before it does so.
June 2, 2021
I agree with the general thrust of the comment, but I believe that agricola is confusing Bacanora (AIM-listed owner of a Lithium mine in Mexico with part-ownership of a site for one in Germany) with Cornish Lithium (crowd-funded start-up proposing to re-start Lithium mining in Cornwall).
June 2, 2021
Commissioner of the Met formally asking the Home Secretary to make it legal to discriminate against white people.
This is a national disgrace.
This is a line that I will die in the sand for.
June 2, 2021
Why is it costing billions for schools to catch-up on pupil tuition
I thought weâd spent billions already on laptops for everyone and reports of teachers working like mad dogs on zoom delivering the curriculum – so why do they need to catch-up
Just get the teachers and pupils to work a standard eight-hour day like everyone else â zero cost
June 2, 2021
Glen
Absolutely, my thoughts as well, they are still leaving school at 2.45pm every day in Wokingham. WHY !
The solution is so dammed simple, an extra 2 plus hours a day, gives an extra 10 plus hours a week, or nearly 2 school days a week.
Catch up would be complete in less than 6 months.
Perhaps the teachers are poor at Maths, and cannot workout out for themselves.
Doubtless the government will pay out more taxpayers money, as that seems to be the solution to everything now, anyone would think we have a bottom less pit of the stuff.
June 2, 2021
You’d have to get Teachers, and Unions to agree. End of your suggestion.?
June 2, 2021
I certainly intend to use the Railways IF they are competitive and a joy to ride in.
Past experience tells me that they are uneconomical compared to a car when more than 1 passenger is travelling.
In addition, there is the constant irritation of mobile phone callers loudly telling the whole disinterested carriage of their personal business together sometimes with the unwashed sitting next to a sensitive nose, to tolerate all for the price of your ticket. There used to be “Silent” carriages where phone calls were prohibited (although that was sometimes ignored) but I gather these are no longer active. As for the unwashed – well they have never been banned.
I have travelled on the German railway and know they are far superior to those of this country. Not only are they quieter and cleaner, the travelling passengers are much more considerate of others. Match the German way and the railways can definitely count me in.
As for freight hauling, a different animal and well worth any business considering. All is required is experts in logistics to manage it and there are many out there in the Private Sector and in the Armed Forces too. Just keep the Government out of management – they are an incumberance.
June 2, 2021
I haven’t used rail for a very long time – 20+ years. And even then only occasionally before that short period of 6 months when it was the only sensible way to get to the other side of Birmingham due to traffic congestion.
In future, I plan to continue to avoid it – I fully expect never to use it again.
Covid is not the only virus or ailment other people can inflcit upon us – prior to that the sniffling kid with a cold, the adult who doesn’t cover its mouth when coughingh or sneezing… the car is a far better way to travel, more private, and door to door.
I also intend to WFH as much as possible, reducing congestion on road and rail.
One point we often msis when we compare UK rail travel to other countries: we Brits are more private people than many other countries’ citizens. We don’t strike up a conversation with strangers in a train or a cafe, we keep ourselves to ourselves, so public transport is a health hazard and a source of mild social discomfort for many. We like our cars – we expect government to find a way for us to continue to have them. Rail is for freight, as you said and needs to improve its offering in that market (perhaps government could help set the climate for business in that respect? HS2 freight links, with competitive pricing?).
June 2, 2021
Cars with increasing levels of automation depending on the cost, seem the way to go.
Invest in self driving/flying smart technology and motorway capacity, instead of HS2. Increase regional airport capacity for coming electric driven quiet shuttle craft. Self drive cars can also work to meet local step. But may eventually may provide the end to end.
When trains cost more per mile, than cars, just on the 2nd class ticket price. Give up!
June 2, 2021
Not strictly railways, but another way to utilise infrastructure is to consider using waterways, many of which extend into cities. Unfortunately, I’m not able to remember the city in Europe, but when they introduced a ban on big trucks and access only up until 10.00am, an enterprising company brought freight in on a barge and then distributed it within the city limits using electric bicycles with trailers. Seems to be working well.
June 2, 2021
In the past 6 years I have only used the railway twice: to attend a service at St Paul’s (walking from Waterloo), and an international rugby match in Cardiff, where the station is almost alongside the stadium – and then we walked back to the A48 for a lift after the match. I do not see rail having much of a future, aside from some scenic heritage railways.
Modern technology will surely replace rail with autonomous automated vehicles that are capable of using the trackways at far higher efficiency and traffic density, as well as timetable and capacity flexibility, and ultimately the ability to travel on to the actual destination or the passenger or goods because they will use road wheels. We should probably start looking at some testbed use of branch lines as soon as the technology looks good enough, which may even be now. To begin with it may be confined to a rail route, where conditions for automation are much easier to establish, and where testing of more advanced capabilities can be organised without threatening road users.
June 2, 2021
I recollect as a very young person living on a farm on the Yorkshire Wolds taking the lorry (I was a passenger) to the goods yard in Beverly or was it Hull?, and shovelling coal in great lumps on to the back of the lorry to take home. How the quantity of coal was measured I have no idea. But that memory chimes with your recommendation of easy access to the goods wagons
June 2, 2021
Since I retired I have only used the train half a dozen times but not for the last five years. My use was always leisure to London but I don’t wish to travel there again given its recent degradation.
I might be tempted to travel elsewhere but I seek simplicity in ticketing. I would wish to be able to decide on the day. In other words freedom.
There is much talk in pricing of discounts. But I don’t wish to be required to book in advance to get a discount – a discount on what. What is the basic price? How do I know if the ‘on demand’ day price is not deliberately falsely high.
Do away with all the complex discounting systems. Since so many million journeys are on discounted prices why not bring the prices down to those levels for all travel. At present passengers are trapped in the systems by the marketing tricksters but as they need to travel into work they will travel anyway, and if they need flexibility simple ticketing will give it.
June 2, 2021
I believe that steel wheels on a steel track is out-of-date technology. It is very expensive to build and maintain, it is noisy and inflexible and should be replaced by the much cheaper technology of rubber wheels on tarmac.
Rail always has the big disadvantage that it cannot take passengers or freight âdoor-to-doorâ which means that there is always extra expense, lost time and inconvenience getting to and from the railway terminals.
Where new transport links are required (such as the HS2 line) there should be a dedicated tarmac motorway suitable for electric rubber wheeled self- drive vehicles which can be cars, buses, coaches or lorries.
Vehicles could easily join and exit this motorway at regular intervals (like current motorways) thus making this new transport system available to far more people close to and along the route. It would reduce the inevitable traffic around the terminals as well as providing efficient, cheap and flexible âdoor-to-doorâ services.
June 2, 2021
Rubber and tarmac disintegrate pretty badly – steel wheels on rail doesn’t.
June 2, 2021
The cost of pet medical attention has reached punitive levels in the UK. I would suggest that it has become an integrated rip off.
Large numbers of vetinary practices have been taken over by investment companies only interested in an ever fatter bottom line
The cost of drugs via a vet are astronomic. Additionally you cannot buy drugs without a vets prescription at a cost that negates any online savi6ng.
Say you insure, okay while the animal is young, but climbing rapidly as the animal ages. This in effect encourages vets and pharmas to charge high prices. As the age increases so the excess inreases on any insurance claim.
For the aged of any financial grouping the pet is possibly more theraputic than the TV. All the above is an ever increasing burden on many who cannot afford it. The whole industry is in need of a thorough independant investigation. Government are there to curb the excessive behaviour of those preying on the vulnerable. Ask the minister what he has in mind to correct it.
June 2, 2021
A feature of modern cars is that go on for a very long time. When I first started driving 50 years ago, a 10 year old car was a ‘banger’. Where I now live (in Dorset), you see a lot of people driving 01 plate cars – and earlier. Seeing a 25 year old car, still in excellent condition, is quite a common sight here. My own car is 9 years old – I intend to keep it for as long as possible – perhaps another 11 years. Assuming normal maintenance costs, it is going to cost me less than a grand a year to have comfortable, economical, reliable door-to-door transport. And I can open the windows whenever I want and stop whenever I want. I can listen to my choice of music, as loud as I want.
June 3, 2021
I too have some older cars, one of which is a classic MGC Roadster which I restored and is now 53 years old. Another is an Italian thoroughbred with a 5750cc V12 engine, built in 2004 and is my favourite possession. Sadly, when a future Government of any complexion realises that their attempt to enforced the switch to electric cars is not working, several things will happen :
Taxes on fuel will be ramped up dramatically
Our cars will be banned from town centres and some stretches of motorway
MOT tests will be made much more stringent on older cars
Road tax will be increased on more polluting models.
All this will be on top of the enormous increase they are hoping to enforce upon us in home heating costs.
In the end, only the better off will be able to keep their cherished older cars and, facing a tsunami of cost of living increases, those less fortunate will have no way of affording any kind of car at all.
Unless, of course, voters rebel against these ruinous policies in their millions or Nigel Farage once again comes to our rescue with an anti-green crap party. Lets hope so.
June 3, 2021
so its probably you driving slowly down my road with all windows open and a modern tedious thump thump thump being played at ear splitting level – and thats us indoors!
June 2, 2021
“What use will you make of the railway?”
None.
June 2, 2021
Hi John.. I don’t know whether you have any contacts in transport but we have a problem with the DVLA.
I received notice that i would need a new photofit licence as I am coming up to 70. I applied on line and had a quick response and a form to fill in requesting a witnessed update of photo. I got a photo signed and sent it immediately by recorded delivery on the 10th May. I havn’t received it yet. I have tried web chats, phone calls writing. ‘e’ mails and not one person can tell me what has happened to my licence. I cant even get an answer on the phone. I need to know if they have collated the information and my licence is awaiting processing.If they have not received, I could be prosecuted for driving without a licence , however if it is the DVLA’s fault then the law covers me , but how will I know this if I am not sure whether the information is in their hands?
June 2, 2021
The money to be spent on HS2 should instead be used to reinstate lines that have been lost but would now, due to changes in demographics, be used as an alternative to road transport. Many people are not happy with the whole concept of electric cars, and in any case will be priced out of that market. I think there’d be a demand for an improved and extended rail network – if one could be assured of (a) a seat, (b) reliable timetables, (c) clean and spacious facilities. Many would certainly use trains more if they could be assured of these things, for both business and pleasure.
(If HS2 comes to ”fruition” it will be outdated and pointless, with obsolete technology.)
June 2, 2021
I see HS2 generates a lot of comments.
I looked at a map of the UK with the current rail network and the disused lines.
When planning HS2, I wonder if anyone considered (where practical) using sections of the old disused lines and then constructing new sections to take HS2 up to Birmingham and beyond instead of simply buying up land and constructing an all new link?. I feel there are many areas where areas of disused line could have been regenerated that would have reduced the overall impact on lost forest, farms, etc.
The result would not exactly be a straight line however the environmental and land loss etc would have been reduced.
Or am I being too simplistic?
June 3, 2021
Often disused lines are dug up, trading estates, roads, housing built across the routes. Winding back the clock the way you suggest is not possible.
June 3, 2021
@a-tracy,
I don’t want to sort of pigeon hole anyone (as said before, it’s not black and white, we’re all a mixture of both kinds of capitalism).
But certainly I’ve come across one poster here who writes continously as if from a mantra.
Capitalism is complicated and hence requires a pragmatic approach (although some main principles too).
I think idelogical capitalism (which I am trying to define over various comments) is in part, but not necessarily, a subjective idelogical reaction to the ideology of socialism. Like we must be the opposite to socialism to be a capitalist. I think this happened a lot during the 80’s – and understandable. Socialism was seriously rife during the 80’s. But I suspect that 90% of population today support capitalism in one shape or form (Blair understood this).
Pragmatic capitalism is objective. It doesn’t see things through a reactionary prism to socialism. It just focuses on how capitalism can best serve a country long term. And that involves careful study and research and analysis and strategy and tactics and planning like in business – like say Steve Jobs and how he built Apple.And that’s hard work! Much harder than simple mantras!
June 3, 2021
I don’t support Blair’s brand of capitalism. I am definitely a Conservative capitalist through and through. But a pragmatic Conservative capitalist not an ideological one. And I am sure many, many people in business would agree with me, and certainly those most of all in the High Tech / Digital industry – where complicated planning, analysis, research etc is key leading to quality, valuable brands, high skills, diversity of high skills, high productivity, high exports, and so on.
June 2, 2021
I agree with those who have observed that the passenger railway won’t recover until mask-wearing obligations are removed.
One aspect of this that hasn’t attracted comment so far is that some European countries are withdrawing licenses for airlines to operate shorter internal flights where there are suitable alternatives by inter-city rail. This might be a sensible strategy for GBR and the DfT as they plan how to restore a long-term revenue base for the railway. Airlines need not be necessarily harmed by this as the policy would effectively focus scarce runway capacity on longer domestic routes and routes overseas. It would probably be bad news for civil engineers & contractors keen to build Heathrow’s third runway though.
June 2, 2021
Some years ago delivery by rail of aggregates often had the train arriving between 11pm and midnight which meant pressure to empty the train the next day to avoid demurrage charges. Probably wouldn’t be much different these days.
June 3, 2021
Those trains were very heavy and slow – so timetabled to move after last passenger trains.