I was used to an open democratic process when helping make laws in the UK. A Green paper setting out the problem and legislative options invited those with views to suggest improvements or alternatives. A White Paper setting out a detailed government proposal invited forensic criticism. Three readings in each of the Commons and Lords, with a detailed scrutiny of the draft line by line on Committee ensured plenty of opportunity for MPs, peers and outside interests to defend or attack the idea of the bill and to work to improve its details. At every stage the public could be involved. Every stage was undertaken in public.
The EU system as so different, restricting public discussion and scrutiny. The main debates over the draft laws took place in secret. The Commission drafted the law. Ministers from member states were not meant to draft laws or even to table amendments. It is true that over the years the European Parliament did develop more open procedures to consider draft laws, but only based on  laws the Commission had written and the Council meeting in private had approved.
As a legislating Minister I wanted to open it up for wider public scrutiny. I did what I could by showing drafts to the UK parliament and encouraging debate there before I went to Brussels to negotiate. I kept in my mind what each country had said about the draft when the Council came to debate it and sought to share this with the press. The press were not interested. They explained to me that they needed stories on all the days I was not in Brussels, and the Commission took a dim view of anyone saying what had happened in the Council. Of course many Ministers did tell their national press what they wanted them to know about their own role, without having to worry about anyone having a different recollection of what they said and did.
In practice most Ministers went along with the Commission that they needed to reach an agreement, however needless or undesirable yet more laws might prove. I objected to the way there was no official opposition saying either we did not need that law, or telling the Commission how it needed a major rewrite. At every stage in the UK Parliament the opposition is there to challenge the need for a law, the principles behind the law, and the detail of the draft.
No wonder we ended up with so much law that proved to be anti innovation, complex, bureaucratic and costly. It is a major brake on the progress of the European economy.
August 3, 2023
Good morning.
A fair description of totalitarianism, in my opinion.
We must also not forget that a lot of EU Law came by the mythical fax machine. Although this was more in jest than reality, the truth was that most EU Laws bypassed parliament through Statutory Instruments, which I believe was deliberate.
Other member countries, such as Germany, had written constitutions that could be used either by the political class or populace to put a break on EU Laws and Treaties. We saw this in the various Dutch and Irish referendums. It was these referendums and the EU’s actions, that is; “vote and vote again until you give us the answer we want” that highlighted the anti-democratic working and thinking of the EU.
With the UK supposedly out of the EU one would have thought that without such a reluctant member now gone it would have created a Treaty binding the member countries further together. It has not. Which begs the question as to why ? To answer my own question, it is because it is waiting for us to rejoin and, if a new treaty were to be created and signed by the current members, it would clearly be handing even more sovereignty and control to the centre. Something all pro-EU parties are keen to avoid.
August 3, 2023
The U.K. has the most comprehensive written constitution in all of history.
August 3, 2023
We also have the most comprehensive and largest tax-book in all of history
August 3, 2023
The UK has no written Constitution which is why it is so flexible yet specific.
August 3, 2023
Go and look in the Commons library. There is a complete section called âconstitutional statutesâ. You are confusing a codified constitution on a the back of a fag packet with the real thing.
August 3, 2023
@ Mark B “… a Treaty binding the member countries further together” – a Treaty would have to be negotiated, risking public (if futile) discussion. What is happening instead is the more subtle proposal for the extension of majority voting (in place of national vetoes). It is what evil empires be like.
August 3, 2023
MB,
It’s not us the EU Politburo are worried about, it’s Germany. Germany now provides almost half of the EU net budget funds, and therefore controls the EU. Germany has it’s own economic problems as reported. IF, as feared, we see a real recession in western economies, who is going to provide the money to hold the EU together?
August 3, 2023
Perhaps China will offer to buy it?
August 3, 2023
I think any change in structure will be delayed until the Ukraine war is over and they will then create a two-tier structure: the Eurozone which will become the federalised EU and an outer tier who are outside the Eurozone and will not be subject to the full panoply of EU law.
This was the proposal Cameron put to Merkel, who refused it. A few months ago Macron revived the idea.
The EU has a problem that many countries committed to join the Euro are, like Greece, really not suited to it and the former Eastern bloc nations are resisting EU control. I suspect the EU’s “deal” with the UK is the basic structure which will eventually be proposed for the other satellite nations, which will include Turkey, Ukraine and the remaining EFTA nations. And that is why we are in a holding pattern with the Government refusing to take advantage of any “Brexit” freedoms.
August 3, 2023
I agree.
August 3, 2023
There can be no unfettered part of a fettered whole.
Once you accept the EU, itâs over.
August 3, 2023
Indeed.
Allister Heath is spot on today as usual.
âBritainâs deranged war on cars, our looming ban on gas boilers, the debanking scandal, the failure to prosecute crime, the attempted cancellation of women, the sabotage of the Brexit agenda, the scale of migration: welcome to anti-democratic Britain, where the beleaguered majority is increasingly subject to the whims of an entitled, activist elite that often seems to despise the people over which it exercises so much power.
All the policies listed above share a devastating commonality: they are deeply unpopular, and would be crushed in a referendum after a fair campaignâ
They are also mad in scientific and economic terms and profoundly immoral.
August 3, 2023
I do hope Mr Heath mentionsw which political party has been in power the last 13 years doing all of this
August 3, 2023
Over-50s could deliver takeaways, says work and pensions secretary Mel Stride (PPE yet again) clearly this government and the foolish Mel Stride has a death wish at the polls in 14 months or so.
âOver-50s looking for work should consider delivering takeaways and other flexible jobs typically occupied by younger people, the work and pensions secretaryâ has said.
Well if the country and pensions were not so overtaxed and the government not so good at pissing money down the drain, destroying the economy, regulating everything to death, pushing up energy cost (with the insanity of net zero) and killing people with lockdowns and net harm vaccinesâŠ
August 3, 2023
I can see it now – deranged over-50s zooming through red lights, old college scarves streaming in the wind, car horns blaring, mopeds scattering pedestrians off pavements, pizza boxes falling off, death-wish students dashing into the road for a free meal…..Oh. Joy!
August 4, 2023
Over 50 s to work because Uni party have wrecked the con of after being in govt for 14 years!! Illegal immigrants four star hotels free health etc while over 50 s who paid tax all their lives told to be a delivery driver, to pay more taxes for govt reckless wasteful spending!! Sunak and all uni party idiot ministers, Stop spending!
August 3, 2023
This is not simply undemocratic, itâs mad! These people are seriously unhinged.
August 3, 2023
sometimes unhinged comes with a demonic laugh…. on the way to the asylum.
August 3, 2023
@Lifelogic – sounds like this Conservative Parties manifesto to me. Ban and ban some more, it is not about the economy, its not about working with the whole Country and its people, it is about Control and the purest 1984 Socialism. A Government and Parliament in fear of the People so they need to march all over them.
August 3, 2023
Yes, but there are only around 80 people in the UK parliament that agree with you Lynn the rest want an easy life just rubber stamping any and all laws, anti-British or not, and being friends earning big bucks on their free jaunts to Europe.
August 3, 2023
Not so. What I say is not a matter of opinion but of fact. Many wanted to be fettered, mainly because they had no comprehension of the consequences. Now MPs are being âcaughtâ on the Marxist spiders-web too.
Moreover the U.K. did not accede to the EU legally, so we were never legally a member.
August 3, 2023
Agree
August 3, 2023
Rather than seeking to trade with the Evil Empire should we not instead be imposing sanctions to show our opposition to its totalitarian, anti-democratic ways?
August 3, 2023
I would go for that suggestion Formula! We need to drive them away-they are untrustworthy!
August 3, 2023
You mean sanctions until illegal immigrant across the channel is stopped and sanction for fishing in our territory
August 3, 2023
@formula57 – becoming a Democracy would be a good start, stop punishing and start working with and for the majority. To much âlook at meâ, pandering to personal self esteem and personal ego and very little getting on with the job and just doing.
August 3, 2023
Iâm old enough to remember being told Brexit would mean no one would bang on about the EU anymore
August 3, 2023
Who told you that Tarquin?
August 3, 2023
I’ll stop talking about the EU when we stop funding it ! If anyone can find the actual amount for 2023, please supply details
August 3, 2023
Who said that Tarquin?
August 3, 2023
As an ordinary EU citizen, I have been able to give my view in several (EU-wide) public consultations in the early stages of EU legislation, not in the Netherlands for Dutch legislation.
Somehow, yesterday my soft spoken comment got lost in moderation? Now a slightly abbreviated version, to find out whether this happened by accident.
The EU has been one of the best things happening during my long life:
So many very differing cultures and languages, countries succeeding to âfight out their conflictsâ at the conference table. The (schengen) lifting of borders and the common currency as the more notable features for the general public.
Interesting how, recently, public opinion cried out for European intervention into a purely national competence (health), when the pandemic started. This hybrid construct of the EU27 still has a long way to go! (For various support levels refer to Eurobarometer Spring 2023)
Reply The issue I raised is the complete lack of formal opposition to an EU legislative proposal allied to the secrecy of the Council of Ministers, the main legislature. Happy for the Netherlands that many there like the EU. Does seem EU policies against farming are however currently very unpopular with many.
August 3, 2023
If it is truly one of the best things in your life, What a very sad life you have. I hope you have a better future with a say or vote for how you are governed and taxed and without war and conflict on your door step⊠promoted by EU ie Ukraine.
August 3, 2023
@Hope: Interestingly, some 35 years ago, having worked abroad, we had to make the choice of settling in the Netherlands or in Britain. Compared to my spouse (and to all other British living in the Netherlands we know) I have a mild opinion about the UK, especially since Brexit. And yes, in our “very sad life” we are very happy and content to live on this side of the North Sea.
August 3, 2023
In multiparty/coalition countries like the Netherlands (and also in e.g. the EU parliament), a âformal oppositionâ is not as clear as in de-facto two party democracies. The transparency in EU trialogue negotiations is still lacking, is being studied, and should be improved. The EU evolution can be frustratingly show.
The farming issue will be an interesting topic in the upcoming Dutch elections in which a responsible EU civil servant (Frans Timmermans) returns as national politician.
August 3, 2023
PvL – It is clear that you are a fan of the EU and no matter what alternative views are expressed , you will not be convinced otherwise . Sir John has exposed the restrictions that existed during the time he was involved and how contrary the EUs central administration was to the UK democratic approach , he exposed these experiences to prove why it was right for us to subsequently withdraw . My experience as a Management Consultant on behalf of a number of large UK and USA businesses during the early 60s confirmed the level of obstruction and difficulties that existed to restrict efforts to gain footholds in Europe ; eventually I withdrew my own offices in Paris , Brussels , Amsterdam and Frankfurt and invested elsewhere . My view continues to believe that the EU will not survive and there will be a substantial re-alignment in Europe . I wish you well but we differ on this topic .
August 3, 2023
@Bert+Young:
The first UK predictions that the “European project” couldn’t work date from 1955 (Britain leaving the Spaak Committee stating it couldn’t succeed). Has history been on your side?
August 3, 2023
That is exactly why the British people insist on the 2 main parties. Their instinct is absolutely correct. If you canât sack the government you donât have democratic power.
Our only problem, which will be solved, is that the 2 main parties were corrupted by such a long association with the EU.
Germany has repeatedly upended the EU by unilaterally doing its own thing. For instance it unilaterally and against EU law recognized Croatia. But of course itâs German Europe. That is the proper description of the EU.
August 3, 2023
@Lynn Atkinson: But you CAN sack a government in a multi-party parliament with a coalition government!
It just happened in the Netherlands a few weeks ago. (the Mark Rutte government stepping down to prevent a shameful, certain confidence motion). Maybe too complicated for a Briton???
August 4, 2023
You canât appoint a new one, itâs all to do with the horse trading after the election. You might well find Rutte back in post. The Germans could not get rid of Gencher, and of course the whole objective of democracy is for the biggest group of people to get their way – not for the 2% Kingmakers to extract a price.
August 3, 2023
You have answered your own question Peter.
PS
Moving towards a policy which deliberately reduces food production at a time of increasing population is dangerous and life threatening.
August 3, 2023
@EU fan: only if the food production is meant for the own growing population, which is not the case as most of it is just for export.
August 4, 2023
Ah – export is too complicated for a Continental to comprehend?
August 4, 2023
I thought the EU aimed to fairly distribute the resources of member nations Peter.
A trading block was what we were told was the central desire of the founding members.
Seems you have a dislike for anything that isn’t exclusively for your own nation.
Your critical sounding phrase…its just for export…is telling.
August 3, 2023
Eu bullies ir Chinese bulliesâ no difference! Both are bullies I want NO association with!
August 3, 2023
@Peter VAN LEEUWEN – but it is still an unelected, unaccountable(therefore unchallengeable) committee of Bureaucratâs that define your very being. When they get it wrong and all humans do, the People of the EU are powerless. The BBB have been protesting because no one is listening to them as their lives are taken away.
August 3, 2023
The European council of ministers ie the executive law makers, canât be voted out of âgovernmentâ by the citizens of the EU, as theyâre not elected by the people, nor is there any official opposition to counter & check the council of ministers âŠthatâs not democracy
August 3, 2023
@glen Cullen:
You are mistaken here: The council of ministers is made up of the 27 ministers of relevant national departments, e.g. home office ministers, education ministers, etc.
Dutch people-representatives (like your MPs) can pass a vote of confidence and that would be the political end of that particular minister. That is democracy!
In a trialogue there are three negotiating entities:
The Council of Ministers, the European Parliament, and the European Commission.
August 3, 2023
thats 27 unelected appointee’s
August 4, 2023
@glen Cullen: Again Glen, was John Redwood, in the period that he was one out of 12 ministers in the Council of Ministers, (from 12 different member states), an “unelected appointee”???
August 3, 2023
It whatever Minister we send to the EU is outvoted. Even the Labour ones who thought they would be welcomed with open arms. They were shocked and one came back saying it was a problem of being British!
August 3, 2023
âïž Glen.
August 3, 2023
I seem to remember the Dutch voted ânoâ to the EU Constitution, a few days after France also did. Fat lot of good it did them. The EU never listens. âOn we goâ, as their leaders say âŠ
August 4, 2023
@Barbara
That is what British anti-EU media said. What really happened (more negotiations etc.) was quite different.
August 3, 2023
So you no longer consider yourself to be Dutch then ?
August 4, 2023
@Mark B:
You must have learned that EU citizenship is an extra on top of national citizenship. It confers specific extra rights which you can look up in Wikipedia.
August 4, 2023
No it isnât. There is no such country as Holland. It has been subsumed into the new country called Europe. Go and look at the signs at the EU Parliament for confirmation. Your âgovernmentâ is just a local council.
August 4, 2023
@Lynn Atkinson: indeed Holland is not a country, but just 2 provinces of the country called ‘The Netherlands’.
August 3, 2023
‘public opinion cried out for European intervention into a purely national competence (health), when the pandemic started. ‘
– and what pray, did you get?
Squabbles over who should get the lion’s share of the jabs, no matter who developed it, owned it, made it, prior contracted for it? Not exactly EU finest hour?
August 4, 2023
It actually soon became the EU’s finest hour Mickey. Compared to 2008 (the financial crisis) it all happened with lightning speed. And it also led within months to a massive transfer of funds to the most affected EU countries and the first borrowing of money on a European scale (see this blog on 31-7-23). That was a significant step on the path of forming an ever closer union between the peoples of Europe.
August 3, 2023
I believe Gorbachev once noted how the Soviet system had moved West, when talking of the EU.
It seems a system that suits many in our political establishment.
Far too many in the general public have no idea of what they have actually lost in terms of open democracy. This also suits many in the political establishment, who along with their little helpers in the mainstream media have them convinced the sky is falling in on them.
August 3, 2023
Prior to creation of the EU Parliament the EU was basically a Committee-run Dictatorship.
Now it resembles the Supreme Soviet; a chimera of democracy. You cannot have a democracy when there isn’t a recognisable Demos, which there isn’t. In practice, EU law is created by appointed Officials to suit the two most powerful countries – France and Germany – and is then imposed on the nations which make up the bloc.
This is the EU’s decision-making process.
https://european-union.europa.eu/institutions-law-budget/law/how-eu-policy-decided_en#:~:text=Parliament%20can%20also%20block%20the,try%20to%20find%20a%20solution.
August 3, 2023
The EU made an expensive strait jacket for Europeans to wear. Their uncomfortable citizens have the dilemma of either remaining restricted or coping with a rip off.
August 3, 2023
My feelings too Bloke
August 3, 2023
OK, but this is all behind us now. So I am not sure what is the purpose of the article.
August 3, 2023
It ‘not’ behind us while we still pay into the EU
August 3, 2023
Meanwhile, a new book outlines the difficulties in setting up the Brexit party. Apparently hobbled by the Establishment at every stage.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1798021/brexit-party-formation-nigel-farage-banks
This is something that can and should be addressed within the U.K. Coutts was only the tip of the iceberg. I note Howard Davies has still not gone.
August 3, 2023
The organ grinder always survives, often moving on like Phillip Hammond to bigger interference rolls.
August 3, 2023
Mark B
Since ‘Covid’ it has become obvious that much legislation in the Western world has originated in the WEF. Previously conspiracy theory, now fact. Was it always the case that this was the mythical fax machine?
August 3, 2023
@BOF +1
The Lazy Socialist WEF disciples seem to believe in a higher order of indoctrination than that given to them by the people they represent.
August 3, 2023
Very True
August 3, 2023
I love a good old fashioned conspiracy theory ….until it becomes true
August 3, 2023
The EU is governed by experts who do not need the support or the comments from ignorant people who do not understand their subject like the experts. Hence the secrecy.
This attitude is wrong for two reasons.
The first is that it allows mistakes to become law. I am a Catholic, so I am against gay relationships in the sexual sense. But I go along with the law of the land because that is, I am told, what everyone else would like. The EU has made some terrible blunders like the BSE catastrophe, or dithering over covid.
The second is that government depends on virtu – Macchiavelli’s word. The population can be and ought to be moral, trustworthy, hard working and honest. This means that you can depend on them. Trust is so important in government.
August 3, 2023
@Mark Stallard. Your comment reminded me of a wonderful French word I came across while working in France: “vulgarisation”. It describes the process of an expert imparting a tiny fraction of his knowledge to an ordinary person. You can almost feel the shudder of haughty disdain as the expert divulges his sacred knowledge to the unwashed!
August 3, 2023
‘The population can be and ought to be moral, trustworthy, hard working and honest.’
Blimey – I’ll have some of what you have been drinking.
August 3, 2023
John,
I like to read your very early morning thought pieces in bed at 5 or 6m each morning. I have an in-depth response to you today.
My short answers are that I agree with your underlying statements that in the EU things are conducted in secret for the most part away from publicly elected legislators, in the UK parliament has the opportunity to get involved. All your statements about the technocracy of European legal drafting system are true and yet the same pit falls come to us. We live in a perpetual state of medial or climate emergency or war situation with the middle-east, Russia or somewhere. The moral absolutism that the government must take full control of every aspect of peopleâs lives to achieve some religious sounding imperative and a bunch of EXPERTS step forwards to produce rules, regulations that strip us of freedoms and liberties. We are becoming less free, less wealthy and sicker society because the government and big business control every aspect of our lives including I might say the thought processes of those in parliament and regulators unwittingly doing their bidding. MPs and others should scrutinise the urgency of the latest emergency, scrutinize whether the underlying issue is as presented and whether the powers and solutions proposed are for the good of the people. I asset that for the most part these days each step of this process is failed by those who should push back and scrutinize them.
My longer (first answer at 6am)
In both the EU and GB systems if you are interested and sufficiently well versed you can go and download draft bills and regulations and write to those involved in the process to try to help improve it. But a lot of things are going wrong in our legal drafting system as well. Most people donât know it is layered with primary legislation, secondary regulation and then often in areas there are codes of practice or there are other lower levels of laws and regulation such as bylaws etc. Many of the things being legislated and regulated on these days are highly moral and complex. The notion that human industry is sending the climate out of kilter, that parliament must be the enforcer of change and that all British Subjects must endure hardship to achieve a noble climate outcome for the distant future is something for example that parliament and all the layers of government and civic society are supposed to be behind, whatever the cost. However how much scrutiny was given to the bills before parliament, I recall only commentators in the Lords actually criticized the fundamental principles and suspect science driving the legislation and called out the lack of scrutiny over the engineering practicality, as well as economic, social and environmental cost of all the changes away from a hydrocarbon fuelled economy into the unknown and not-yet-invented.
I like your optimism for the British system of legal drafting, scrutiny and approval. But in the complex age we live in I do not share your optimism in the ability of parliament to scrutinize and correct bad law or bundles of laws based on bad positions. I believe most MPs involved in the primary legislative process, most civil servantsâ involved in secondary regulation drafting and most civil servants in regulatory bodies or judges and lawyers work diligently to see that the primary and subsequent secondary regulation and codes of practice are carried out and enforced as intended. But the pace at which things are done these days, the complexity of issues and the ease with which a few powerful and well placed persons, wrong information, bad corrupted, biased or distorted application of information provision, legislative process or application of pressure via media nudging to application of government whips can result in some very harmful, retrograde steps.
Having been a scientist ( studier of nature of natural systems of weather and climate, and phenomena of electricity) an engineer (designer of power control systems, markets designer for the purpose of delivering cost effective provision of reliable energy, and regulation drafter with the European Commission on Energy for the same purpose) my driving ethos was always does this improve the lives of people, does it help people in my country where I live, does it work with the fundamental economic, engineering and scientific bodies of knowledge and does it deliver a fair outcome under the eyes of God? In my time drafting the 3rd energy package which most people will not have heard of but which my âsecrete committeeâ of experts spent nearly 5 years working on its drafting and because I chose to see the good and bad fruits of my work , I spent another 5 years with the electricity and industry, UK gov, regulators, generators and other stakeholders working out firstly how to mesh it with UK regulation here and then build the industry processes, rules and IT systems that actually control activities on the grid and govern the market offers, transactions and settlement of contracts.
The GB system is currently just as opaque, ideologically possessed by people urging centralisation of power for ideological reasons and to tackle the permanent states of emergency in health, climate or any other excuse that can be pushed through the media nudge units. Dangerous ideas and centralised autocratic government control of peopleâs lives are being proposed in health, climate mitigation (=>energy, transport, heat, food-production, manufacturing etc), the right to have physical money or a bank account etc. and parliament puts all those primary instruments in place with not enough scepticism, scrutiny or push back. The media no longer scrutinizes or reports on things and there is little parliamentary or public debate. Take the current Energy Bill which has some very scary articles giving the secretary of state the authority to issue dictat or by fiat when specific hydrocarbons are to be banned in a region or nationally (e.g. CH4 natural gas for boilers, burning wood or coal; or the production, refining, transportation and sale of petrol and diesel as well as lots of guff around smart grids, the ESOâs role etc) and the department (Dept for Net Zero and Energy Security) will duly enforce the first and endanger the second part of its name whilst continually pushing up costs. But where is the push back at the crap pseudo-science of climate change, the absence of reason in forcing the abandonment of systems that work and have lifted us from poverty to prosperity since the industrial revolution for very inadequate, complex, costly and ineffective new technologies and systems of energy that wonât meet the countryâs needs. If you are wondering which articles in the energy bill my eye jumped to first in terms of government department over reach of power then look at 144, 153 where for example gas and solid fuel heating could be replaced by costly alternatives by order of the government. And modifications to laws on Petroleum refining and distribution can ban that too. Further articles 246 and 248 give undue authority to force ever more ridiculous and costly energy efficiency changes to heating systems, windows, doors, cavity insulation etc. on building owners of all types. More top down tyranny! Is parliament actually happy to give the government department the power to micromanage everyoneâs lives, push up costs and hurt everyone so much?
We live in dangerous times and the MPs and Lords seem to be less inclined to push back on government and strip out unnecessary over reach in legislation and regulation these days. I would like to see a mass stripping out of a huge amount of it, whether it came from Europe, the UN treaties or wherever. Much of it is badly drafted law, giving too much power and control to the government on matters which should not be regulated and controlled.
It is not so much our system cannot work, it is that the people in the system have lost the vision of what they are there to do, and what type of scrutiny, scepticism and principles they should apply to drafting and discussions. If people believe that there is always a crisis to fix, that heavy handed regulation and control of peopleâs lives is right and that freedoms of citizens should be forgone and everyone told what to do by EXPERTS â âjust follow THE SCIENCEâ then we live in dangerous times. Please do question given moral imperatives as well as THE EXPERTS and make sure they are looking at the full consequences, using real understanding of the world and using real, trustworthy data and facts about the whole system impacted. Most of the time they are not!
David Bunney
August 3, 2023
David Bunney
Thanks for your long but excellent contribution to the debate.
I would add that government reliance on ‘experts’ of one persuasion only is primarily the cause of many of the woeful and expensive errors. Any scientists with sensible ideas are immediately shut down and or cancelled, often to the point of wrecking their careers. After all, who in their right minds would have taken heed of the computer modelling of the always wrong professor Ferguson, unless it was to progress a particular agenda?
August 3, 2023
@David Bunney – I would suggest GB or at least the Political class and âBlobâ has binned, the simplicity and purity of an elected Democratic Parliament that works(serves) for the People. It is more a Dictatorship, they dictate to us , and their Foreign masters dictate to them. Going forward it is about indoctrination, it has to be as logic has deserted them.
If(big if) there is a real need for Net Zero engaging with the people would have solved it long ago. All the Controlling Bodies, have banning without a thought or creating the funding for any alternative â just punishment on punishment. All the while the Worlds polluters laugh, its not for them and little old UK can consign itself to the dustbin as it will mean more prosperity for them.
August 3, 2023
Good piece, David. If a bit wordy.
Yes the system is not perfect and it does need major reform. Problem is, the only people who are empowered to enact such reform are those who benefit from the current system.
August 4, 2023
Excellent and very interesting comment.
August 3, 2023
Does the EU’s approach end up with laws where we can not deport people like our own heavily scrutinised immigration bills? Or do the laws work as intended?
August 3, 2023
Sir John, I would appreciate a post from you explaining how, in the face of our system of intense parliamentary scrutiny, something as sinister as the Nudge Unit came to be. In what ways are we being controlled subliminally right now? Project fear around Covid was bad enough to warrant termination of those activities in my opinion. These people are most definitely not democratic.
August 3, 2023
+1 Hugh+C
August 3, 2023
Yes the new system is so much better. The WEF and WHO simply send their orders directly to whatever puppet is in No.10 and they implement them. Saves that extra layer of bureaucracy in Brussels slowing down the process of ruin. And isn’t it wonderful all the other terrible things that might have happened (less regulation, lower taxation, control of borders, independent foreign policy) have all been avoided so brilliantly by our benificent government.
We are so lucky to have Klaus and his mates running our lives through such compliant toadies as our politicl class.
August 3, 2023
Des,
Eventually if you push too far then people with nothing to lose will resort to violence. Countries like France have more experience of urban rioting and revolutions.
It would be dangerous to assume that Britons are phlegmatic types who will just put up with things with a bit grumbling.
August 3, 2023
@Des – no rule, regulation or law should exist that hasn’t originated in the Country, if not it should not at any stage become valid even then it should always be in context, of the will of the People. All such proclamation should be open to be amended and repealed by a Countries elected representatives â at any time. As legislators they own and are responsible for all such actions and its outcomes even after they get kicked out of office.
August 3, 2023
Your post makes it very clear to me why the great majority of our politicians, civil servants and industrial bureaucrats prefer the EU system: it is designed and operated to protect them from public scrutiny and accountability.
August 3, 2023
@William Long – Laziness comes to mind, that’s why so often they refuse to manage and do the job we empowered and paid them for, your Legislators that wont!
August 3, 2023
Perfect comment William.
August 3, 2023
Correct.
August 4, 2023
Absolutely. Jean-Claude Juncker, former EU Commission President admitted it: “We know what we have to do; we just don’t know how to get re-elected after we’ve done it.”
So they made it “above democracy.” Unfortunately, that attitude now permeates our Establishment as well and most MPs fail to do the job we elected them to do – they’ve become a rubber stamp for the Government.
August 3, 2023
One of the worst anti-innovation measures is the imposition on small businesses to collect VAT when revenue exceeds ÂŁ85,000. Together with impositions like ULEZ this is stopping many small businesses expanding, or making them cease trading altogether. Please continue to push the Govt to increase the VAT threshold ASAP.
August 3, 2023
Just remove VAT …..but we can’t due to NI and the level playing field, you’d have more luck asking the EU to increase the threshold
August 3, 2023
Like the USSR the EUSSR will collapse.
August 3, 2023
We cannot justifiably compare UK making law for UK and the EU making law fof tte EU. The UK is one country and the EU is a club of 27 countries – very different things.
August 3, 2023
So admit that it cannot be done, and donât try.
Heath did, he said âyou canât have a democracy with 350 million people.â So he illegally pushed the U.K. into that unworkable institution.
August 3, 2023
Democracy vs Dictatorship is the obvious comparison
August 3, 2023
Steve.
“the UK is one Country”
Afraid not, we are 3 countries (devolved powers to Scotland and Wales) plus whatever Northern Ireland is now deemed to be, (half in half out of the EU)
August 4, 2023
Actually 5. England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Monmouth and Berwick. All have to sign declarations of war and of peace.
August 3, 2023
Accepting what you say, our system is democratic whereas the EU is bureaucratic, why oh why is there such reluctance to rid ourselves of residual EU law. It is not benign like the laws of golf, it is hampering the City our greatest source of income, it gives credence to the banking cancellation crisis, and much else.
One can only conclude that your conservative party like it because it does not displease the EU to retain it and provides a path of commonality for our return. The opposition like it in spades. Yet again you find yourself on an offshore political island, but fear not, half the electorate who voted Conservative and got consocialist are with you. Is that smoke on the horrizon, RMS Reform is inward bound.
.
August 3, 2023
We have to stay close to the EU to make it easier for next generation to line themselves up for the SM. The way our planners see it – there is no point in diverging further away when in ten or twenty years time we will probably be on a trajectory back. But rest assured there will be no rejoining the bloc as full members as we have burnt our bridges on that.
August 3, 2023
@agricola – Laziness and the refusal to do ones job as the Countries Legislators can be the only answers. It then begs the question why have these sort of people and call them MPâs
August 3, 2023
Off topic, I read here:
https://www.politico.eu/article/rishi-india/
“Rishi Sunak could get mobbed (and bag a trade deal) when he heads to India”
So I check and read here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046839/uk-india-free-trade-agreement-the-uks-strategic-approach.pdf
“DIT modelling suggests that an FTA could boost UK GDP by around ÂŁ3.3 billion in 2035, up to around ÂŁ6.2 billion in 2035 (in 2019 prices) depending on the depth of the negotiated outcome. This is equivalent to an increase in UK GDP of between 0.12% and 0.22%”
While for India, the increase in GDP would be between 0.07% and 0.16% in the long run.
The article reckons a post-Brexit trade deal would be the “biggest prize” of his visit, but once again we see that in reality a special trade deal wouldn’t add much to the economic welfare of either party.
August 4, 2023
India needs to realise it needs to get a move on Denis; it only has 12 months at best to sort this out before Starmer sells the UK out to align and be conjoined with the EU with all the costs.
August 3, 2023
It doesnât stop them selling us a lot more than we sell them.
It isnât stopping them from toppling London from its premier position as a financial centre.
August 3, 2023
Not true. London is preeminent (along with the city in the colony we established, New York).
August 3, 2023
A great summary of how the EU Commission and EUP was simply a means to create excessive legislation that nobody needed — Something even, that our UK government has been doing for the last few years.
Thinking about the structure of the EU, with its fake parliament that did very little to speak up for the people it represented, it was no wonder that it’s factory produced laws were so bad.
As mentioned the EUP is not a real parliament for it has no official opposition party, and very little in the way of any opposition. MEPs generally do as they are told, happy to pick up the large benefits they obtain, usually for doing little. The system is designed to corrupt. Parties are maintained along ideological lines. Recent legislation will make it impossible for new parties to be formed.
Mrs Thatcher was in favour of an EUP, but she would have been shocked at what was created – She wanted a European Parliament based on the UK model, (before it was corrupted), that would allow real discussion. The EU Commission should have been terminated, with real power resting with the EUP, but as they had the final say, the EU ended up with the diabolical system they now have, that served nobody but the multitude of EU elites and presidents.
August 4, 2023
Bryan, the biggest problem with the EU structure is they can’t even decide on one permanent location moving between two to keep the French happy, lol, and they criticise the UK for not making sufficient changes on the Eco front; how eco-friendly is it doing that manoeuvre twice a year + the cost of it, ridiculous!
August 3, 2023
We’re always’s hearing about legislaters making laws but never about removing them. I fear that all of this law making is slowly strangling us as a people. When we voted to leave the EU and take back control I presumed that a whole lot of old English law would be revised as well or repealed as being obsolete but nothing yet.
August 3, 2023
Statute laws that are contradicted or partially contradicted by new laws are impliedly repealed. Constitutional laws that are contradicted my be EXPLICITELY repealed, else the new law is not legally enacted. See the 1972 Bill failing to enact the Treaty of Rome.
August 3, 2023
Bureaucrats writing the Laws, Rules and Regulations would possibly go wrong.
On the other hand a full UK Sovereign Parliament made up of democratically elected and accountable MPâs, that have been empowered and paid to be the UK Legislators that are for the most part in unison refusing to do so. Is that any different?
August 3, 2023
They propose getting AI to do these âmundane tasksâ. đ±
August 3, 2023
I see a great many similarities between your description of the lack of democracy in the EU and our own BoE, Quangos & Councils
August 3, 2023
Your notes on the EU would be uplifting and informative if we had truly left the EU instead of becoming their Colony. What we have in the UK is a bunch of WEF Socialist falsely running under the banner of being Conservative, when in reality we have a Socialist Dictatorship. All summed up as below…
From Allister Heath â in today’s Telegraph, not forgetting the comments
Britain is now an elite dictatorship where majority opinions are crushed
Start listening to the voters on cars, crime and wokery, or thereâll be an uprising even bigger than Brexit
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/02/britain-now-elite-dictatorship-majority-opinions-crushed/
August 3, 2023
Legislating in the EU say Germany seems to be more efficient than here in the UK. Take the Bibby Barge. Earlier, Shapps told ITVâs Good Morning Britain: âIt certainly wonât be a deathtrap. This actual ship was previously used by Germany to house migrants, thereâs no reason why it wouldnât be absolutely safe. Ships are used to transport people all the time and thereâs no inherent reason why that [not being safe] would be the case.”
When it was used in Germany was it used to house 222 people or the proposed 550. If the lower number then put 222 people safely on that barge and forget the unsafe numbers. Then work out how to recreate the sleeping pods planned for the nightingale (where did all those pods go). Then for goodness sake process people quicker and send failures home.
August 3, 2023
The real reason it may be rather dangerous is surely the quite high chance that one or more of the occupants will set it alight – either deliberately by accident, perhaps cooking in their rooms or similar.
August 3, 2023
a-tracy
Not a death trap, agreed, but given it has been modified from its original capacity, and it is now in another Country with perhaps differing Laws/Regulations, I would have assumed all of the work would need to comply with current regulations, if it does not, then whoever designed for the increased capacity is responsible.
Let us hope that some idiot does not make a deliberate attempt at arson to try and prove a point. !
August 4, 2023
I agree, Alan. I understand the threat these people and their lawyers are making because they prefer the expensive hotel rooms and new flats the UK provides.
If the fire service in Germany thought it was safe, then why can’t the British fire service offer similar services? Someone said it would be another Grenfell, yet another stick to hold over politicians’ heads; you will condemn them if you house them on this home boat. If the modifications were by the foreign owner and is unsafe, why do we have to pay for it? Surely their barge should be serviceable and safe.
These often young men coming here for our protection, housing and wanting to stay need to be told, follow our rules or you will be immediately returned to your country of birth whatever the consequences to you personally.
August 3, 2023
âThe EU system as so different, restricting public discussion and scrutiny. The main debates over the draft laws took place in secret.â
The EUâs authoritarian rule has survived as a result of rising living standards brought about by cheap energy, industrialisation and technological advances. Plus having the necessary funds to (spend Ed)whenever necessary etc ed.
However, the communists have now taken over the institutions and media and are intending to stay in perpetual power through the impoverishment of the EU using the completely false narrative that the âoceans are boilingâ (Al Gore) and âthe era of global boiling has arrivedâ (UN Secretary General) as an excuse for the economy destroying Net Zero Strategy.
They havenât grasped, as has done President Xi of China, that perpetual power requires perpetual rises in living standards, which is why when President Bidenâs Climate Envoy, John Kerry, recently spent 3 days in Beijing to persuade President Xi to join the Net Zero club he was told to get lost.
August 3, 2023
+1 O R.
August 3, 2023
+1
August 3, 2023
Yes but what to do about it. A bonfire of REUL law is silly. Why not determine the most important regulatory barriers to businesses, enterprise, investment etc and deduce from that which laws & regs – UK or EU or both – need to be changed. How long is it since any serious such survey of business has been conducted? I have done them overseas and if well constructed they need not take more than 3 – 4 months and can produce very useful findings translatable immediately into legislative action. But don’t ask the civil service to do it. Get external independent consultants who understand private enterprise.
August 3, 2023
The EU is a product of a classical education. All those folk who have read Plato’s Republic – and actually believe it.
August 3, 2023
I think John covers the clear difference between open and closed government/law making processes.
Sadly, he is being over generous when he mentions our opposition party activity.
Since the left leaning establishment took control over all government activity, there is now no conventional ‘opposition’ there is establishment permanently in power and there is a debating body called Parliament. The vote of the people is largely insignificant to setting the direction of policy and travel of society.
August 3, 2023
The important thing is for the UK to decouple itself from the eu while its decline continues.
We need a proper Conservative government to do this and NOT the current socialists. They need to be deselected before anything can be achieved.
August 3, 2023
The problem was that all Labour/LibDem MPs and the majority of Conservative MPs were perfectly happy to have Single Market laws set by the EU which (while we were in the EU) couldn’t be overturned by the UK Parliament because those laws followed the big state left-wing agenda followed by those MPs. Being outside the Euro meant that EU financial policy (for example imposing austerity on Greece), which was somewhat more right-wing, could also be avoided and UK followed it’s preferred left-wing tax and spend policy. Now we are outside the EU all those MPs are happy to continue with all those same policies.
August 3, 2023
If only you were right. Our system is no better when the Government makes policies & laws which damage the UK, like Net Zero. When the Government tries to dictate which car I can drive & how I can heat my house, & dictate to car manufacturers what percentage of their sales should be EVs. How did those laws get past with no scrutiny or discussion? Equally, I pay a lot of tax to own & run a car, but various councils are now introducing ULEZ areas, where with an older car, I have to pay yet more! Even when the majority are against ULEZs they are still forced on us. Where was the scrutiny & discussion about the Covid19 lockdown when most MPs, like nodding Donkeys, just let it happen? I can never remember a time before when the Government had such contempt for voters, & the opposition is just as bad. I voted to leave the EU, but it seems our Government, Civil Servants, & the elite have done & are doing everything to align us with them.
August 3, 2023
I now understand the Tory election strategy, they canât win the next election relying upon conservative voters alone, they need the labour voters support again âŠ.therefore the strategy is to utilise every labour policy and make alliances with the greens, the EU and UN âŠ.theyâll win the next election by becoming the new-labour
August 3, 2023
‘This page shows figures for the last 7 days for irregular migrants detected crossing the English Channel in small boats without permission to enter the UK.’ – from gov.uk, the figure is zero. Wonder what the explanation is, have we reached our agreed EU quota for the year?
August 3, 2023
Can’t understand why it’s necessary to increase interest rates so high on house mortgages most of these house buyers who are already committed are now screwed they havn’t got the spare money to spend on other things so how can they add to the inflation? Please tell me? It’s nuts and all a big lie. Increased interest rates should only be applied to new borrowings and to new borrowers.
August 3, 2023
Itâs a monetarist hammer on a fiscal nail
The BoE wags the treasury tail
August 3, 2023
Law that is “anti innovation, complex, bureaucratic and costly”. Think about the UK’s Nimby planning laws.
Endless delays to infrastructure projects as every Tom, Dick and Harriot is off objecting to Councils & Courts.
An example in your part of the world would be an extension of the A329(M) northwards to loin the M40 – not a hope in hell. Ditto widening the M4 to four lanes. I seem to recall the true blue Tories of Maidenhead were against the M4 widening some years ago.
The simple fact is that the planning laws have turned the UK into a do nothing society.
August 3, 2023
Sir John illustrates why the decision to leave the European Union is correct. Our Parliamentary system is very well established to make and change our UK laws to our national benefit. The problem now is to change the attitudes of the Civil service who have in two generations done nothing but gold plate Brussels directives over the last 45 years. I am no longer having my life run by Ursula Von Leyen – what’s not to like.
August 3, 2023
Do you think that our government will ever figure out that monetarism is the wrong tool to fight inflation âŠ.this inflation is due to the increase cost of fuel and the extra burdens of net-zero, therefore you need fiscal tools to decrease inflation âŠreduce vat on fuel and repeal net-zero and all its associated costs
August 3, 2023
+1
August 3, 2023
I despair when I see the amount of poverty throughout the land – and now that we have taken back control I thought that our government and legislators would have been able to do something about this awful situation now made much worse by the food banks and the interest rates going up and up.
August 4, 2023
Lucas, “For the year ending December 2022, approximately 1.16 million people migrated to the United Kingdom, while 557,000 people migrated from the UK, resulting in a net migration figure of 606,000. There have consistently been more people immigrating to the United Kingdom than leaving it since 1993 when the net migration figure was negative 1,000.”
What % of these people arrive with nothing? How many are in poverty after two years? If we keep taking in millions of people with nothing, whilst people with skills, money and good capabilities leave each year then poverity is never going to improve, even though British people through the generations have improved their lot from my grandparents cohort onwards.
The British public has NEVER had so much education, more aren’t leaving school until they’re 18, and nearly 50% go to Higher Education, getting more qualified than ever. Is it the government’s fault if they don’t choose courses that get them higher than the student loan repayment level jobs? Is it the government’s fault if they make poverty-inducing lifestyle decisions? Where does personal responsibility start for you?
This government held interest rates down under 2% for 14 years. Were you congratulating them then, or just taking that for granted? Worldwide interest rates went up starting in America; how do you think the UK could hold interest rates down in the UK? Are your mates in the Labour party promising to put interest below 2%? Please provide me with links.
August 4, 2023
a-tracy / am taking on board what you say and thanks for replying – I worked overseas most of my life and am retired now so maybe not up to speed but I think we took a wrong turn by voting for brexit it shut us off from other types of help we could have availed of like being part of the Dublin Convention for instance would have forced the EU countries to take back the bulk of the illegals. Anyway too late now but I do think the government could also have done better in the first place by not getting involved with places like Afghanistan and Iraq etc.
August 5, 2023
Lucas, do you honestly think France would just take all these people that used to jump on lorries instead of boats back, Dublin agreement or no Dublin agreement. I donât believe they would. There are Countries in the EU that used to just give lots of immigrants their settlement papers that allowed them freely to flow into the UK anyway entitled to all our benefits packages, that is another reason for high poverty.
One in six usual residents of England and Wales were born outside the UK, an increase of 2.5 million since 2011, from 7.5 million (13.4%) to 10 million (16.8%). ONS. We are vastly importing too much poverty the most common non-uk passport was Polish, the biggest rise in 2021 from India. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/internationalmigrationenglandandwales/census2021#:~:text=India%20remained%20the%20most%20common,2011%20to%20539%2C000%20in%202021.
The social balance in London in particular and many other Cities is out of control and too many naturalised Brits canât get social housing because of it, priorities are given to new arrivals because they donât have families here and would otherwise be âhomelessâ and thus get priority help, Brits are continually being overlooked and left trying to find low cost private rentals. Children are then rocking up in schools often without very good English holding back entire classes. This was happening throughout our time in the EU, it was out of control.
In addition we were taking all students through Erasmus that we have to provide student loans and maintenance to as though they were British citizens with tax paying parents, a much smaller % went to study in the EU, in fact the EU students often got higher levels of British maintenance loan because of their parents relative incomes, we need to be told how many of the none-repaying loans are EU graduates that we canât track and trace for payment since 1998 (none of this was rebilled to the EU, the NHS also doesnât rebill properly all of the EU treatments in UK hospitals unlike the much more efficient semi-private hospitals in the EU do to the UK).
There were benefits to being in the EU, such as being able to âworkâ in the EU and there were plenty of benefits to more Europeans who were entitled to work in the UK, free higher education for their children in Scotland unlike the English taxpayers paying for that and immediate access to benefits and healthcare including for their children not in the UK.
Agree about Afghanistan and Iraq but we werenât involved in Syria, Armenia, so I donât think it makes that much difference with regards to economic migration.
August 6, 2023
This is the reason we have the objections to brexit. People in authority do not want, or cannot use their brains as they used to, to make decisions. It is much easier to do what someone else tells you and still pick up the money which is what has happened. I do not think we are going to get back our powers as too many in authority, Civil Service and MPs are too happy for others to make decisions for them. The education system is partly to blame as we have an inferior teaching standard to what Butler envisaged for us until the 1960s. Thank goodness I got a grammar school education where we debated and comprehended before it was all lost. Now we have the consequences.