Once we leave the EU we can take back control of our fishery.
There have been many EU policies damaging to jobs and incomes for the UK
But none more consistently unhelpful than the Common Fishing Policy
We have been changed from a country with a rich fishery and a strong net exporter of fish
Into a country with a badly damaged fishery lamely importing our own fish from foreign interests that have taken it
A UK designed policy can do better at conserving our stocks whilst at the same time delivering more fish through UK boats to meet our needs as consumers
The long period of forcing discards of many dead fish at sea has pillaged our fishery in a bad cause.
If a UK fishing policy requires fishermen to land everything they catch we will catch less and eat more, a win win for the industry, the country and the fish.
That too will boost our economy.
Out of the EU we can restore our farms
We have moved from 95% self sufficiency in temperate products to under 70%
Our local supermarkets now are full of Danish bacon, Dutch salad stuffs, flowers and vegetables, Spanish fruit and French dairy products
UK consumers have to pay higher prices than world prices for things we cannot grow for ourselves.
Common EU policies on beef and milk and much else have proved damaging to UK farmers.
A UK based policy can help farmers cut the food miles and gain a larger share of our domestic market
A growth in the UK policy will also boost our economy.
Our membership of the EU confronted us in its early days with the abolition of tariff walls which had protected some of our industry
Whilst leaving up barriers against services where we had a competitive edge
Predictably we slumped into large and permanent deficit in our trade with the rest of the EU.
In the first two decades of our membership the UK lost large amounts of our industrial capacity
German industry proved to be more competitive and we turned to huge imports as we saw unemployment in our manufacturing heartlands mount
Out of the EU we can manage our trade more effectively.
February 24, 2018
There is not a single free trade agreement in the world which concerns services. Only the EU frees trade in services. Services are the largest part of the UK economy. We are leaving the only trading bloc that suits our economy, in favour of … nothing at all. Brexit is the biggest step back from free trade in human history
February 24, 2018
1. There is no single market in services in the EU. It’s attempts to create one are aimed not at freeing trade to make it easier but making the playing field level by making it more complicated for everyone.
2. WTO has three treaties, GATT, GATS covering services and another covering intellectual property.
3. UK is historically the world’s trend setting leader in freeing up trade. that is one reason why de Gaulle said Non, UK just does not fit and does not need the EEC/EU. Once out of the EU UK can continue to benefit by becoming even more competitive in the world, unhampered by unhelpful excessive and badly designed EU regulation.
4. Many of those benefitting from London’s position are not UK but American firms. Why should UK shackle itself to the EU for their benefit?
5. The UK economy is badly skewed to financial services. What it needs is expansion of other sectors – outside the EU which is a shrinking and unhealthily protectionist market – that is why the EU’s share of world trade is shrinking.
6. Even if there is a short term cost the long term benefits are well worth it. (Change of government required but tat’s another story.)
February 24, 2018
The UK fits fine in the EU.
What doesnât fit fine in it are bigoted pensioners.
And, to be honest, they donât fit in the UK either.
February 24, 2018
Andy, The UK has never fitted into the EU. We value personal liberty and democracy too much. The pivot age for majority Brexit was 40-45, hardly pensioners. The bigotry is all from people like you who idolise merely an artificial political construct, without rationality. Those who put the EU before their own country don’t fit in the UK either.
February 24, 2018
Andy
Thanks for the insult, shall not bother to reply to any of your posts either now or in the future, as trying to debate in a sensible manner with someone who holds such a narrow view and mind, is simply pointless.
If the EU is such a wonderful organisation I am sure you will happily go and live there eventually, rather stay here and simply complain !
February 24, 2018
What a rude person you are.
The majority voted out in the referendum. Get over it, we’re leaving!!
February 24, 2018
You really are beyond the pale! You will get old one day and maybe you will get wisdom too. However, in your case, I very much doubt it. TBH, I pity you. You must lead a pretty empty life to feel that you need to abuse others on this forum.
February 24, 2018
Do bigoted young people fit in OK Andy?
February 24, 2018
Those who state ‘to be honest’ imply that they might not be unless they do.
February 24, 2018
What a silly way you have of making your arguments. No wonder Remain lost.
February 25, 2018
You wouldn’t talk about Cable, Clarke, Junckers, Barnier and Corbyn like that.
February 24, 2018
It’s not free trade. The cost is loss of home rule. Stop telling us there is no cost.
February 24, 2018
Anonymous
Very rightly aid. All this about custom unions, single market etc is all just smoke and mirrors.
Round up all the politicians who want to remain, give them their lump sum from their under earnt pension scheme and ship them across to the European mainland.
Where are the people with resolve, purpose, faith and belief who are totally committed to this country governing itself answerable only to the electorate prepared to see our trade increase with those that want to do business with us and allow us to do real business with them in return?
For a hell of a lot of us it was never about trade it was always about freeing ourselves from the shackles of the EU and being the masters of our own destiny.
February 24, 2018
You are mistaken on five counts.
Hint: see WTO I-TIP.
February 24, 2018
Singapore, Hong Kong, America, China all do very well in the services industry … none of them are in the EU are they ?
February 24, 2018
Woody..No..but they are very far away and look after services very well in their own regions..so what is it so special that we will have to offer them that will take us half way round the world that they will want?..dope
February 24, 2018
Indeed and Hong Kong spends about half in Gdp terms what we do on health care and has far better life expectancy too.
February 24, 2018
The EU is not a free trading bloc, it is a protectionist racket. Ask the banana and sugar producers in developing counties. If it is so into free trade why did it take nine years to fail to agree a free trade deal with the USA.
February 24, 2018
Ask the UK sugar producers, imported Beet is taxed which is used to refine sugar in the UK but Cane is tax free because the French and Germans use it.
Everything is designed to protect French and German agriculture.
February 24, 2018
The EU is fully into free trade within the countries in its trading bloc..that is why it is the richest most go ahead trading bloc on the planet..it is not into accepting produce from third countries whose standards are second rate or do not match up..so occasionally we have straight bananas and other stupid things but in the main we can shop with safety- and not in danger of eating chicken washed in whatever
February 24, 2018
Funny how the EU laments the sluggishness of its economy … as for chicken washed in whatever, you should be careful not to get sucked into anti-Americanism.
February 24, 2018
Denis..I have absolutely no problem with being anti american especially since it came under the presidencies of Bush Obama and Trump. America is a place I used to love to visit in the distant past but has sadly lost it’s way, I wouldn’t go now not if you gave me a free holiday not for all the tea in china
February 24, 2018
James. I’d rather it was washed in something rather than be infected with bacteria.
February 24, 2018
“There is not a single free trade agreement in the world which concerns services.”
That is an assertion which goes beyond being rather bold to being totally reckless, as it does not stand up to even a few minutes casual searching on google.
“The EU-South Korea FTA, for instance, covering over 100 services sectors, has been described as one of the EUâs most ambitious FTAs in terms of sectoral coverage.”
February 24, 2018
“Services are the largest part of the UK economy.”
This may help you towards a better, although still imperfect, understanding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradable_sector
“Tradable sector”
“The tradable sector of a country’s economy is made up of the industry sectors whose output in terms of goods and services are traded internationally, or could be traded internationally given a plausible variation in relative prices. Most commonly, the tradable sector consists largely of sectors of the manufacturing industry, while the non-tradable sector consists of locally-rendered services, including health, education, retail and construction.
Tradable jobs can be performed by individuals outside a country: manufacturing, consulting, engineering, finance. Non-tradable jobs can realistically only be performed by domestic workforce: government, health care, hospitality, food service, education, retail, and construction.”
For some reason the article then focuses on Australia in 1990:
“… sectoral outputs were 25.8% tradable and 74.2% non-tradable. Mining and manufacturing accounted for 18.3% and 61.4%, respectively, of the tradable sector.”
Just because 80% of the UK economy is now classed as services, as your kind like to point out in the hope of misleading your audiences – who are not stupid, but are usually too busy to spend much time on a forensic examination of your every claim and argument, a vulnerability which you are happy to exploit – that does not mean than services should or ever could make up 80% of our exports.
For example, as said before, here:
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/10/31/the-banks-negative-view-of-brexit/#comment-897862
in a comment starting:
“Letâs a lot of deceit about this. Not necessarily lies, though there may be some, but deliberate gross deceit in the partial or misleading presentation of facts.”
the great bulk of the “financial services industry” in the UK has nothing to do with international trade whether with the rest of the EU or the rest of the world outside the EU, beyond of course having all EU laws automatically imposed even if there is no need or benefit and possibly even disbenefit from that being done.
February 24, 2018
This was an interesting article back in October 2013:
http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/we-cant-complete-eu-single-market-in.html
“We can’t ‘complete’ the EU single market in services but we can do a lot better”
In my comment I pointed out that they were talking about marginal potential benefits of between 1.8% and 2.3% of EU GDP, on top of the mere 0.8% of GDP which the EU Commission thought had already been gained through the Services Directive – which already regulates sectors that account for around 45% of EU GDP – and that in the nature of things these were far more likely to be overestimates rather than underestimates, and moreover there would be increased regulatory costs which could more than cancel out the benefits.
February 24, 2018
Henry Spark, You claim that there “is not a single free trade agreement in the world which concerns services”. Wrong. The WTO covers services, inevitably, because it covers 98% of international trade.
The WTO states: “As of 25 January 2018, 284 RTAs were in force. These correspond to 455 notifications from WTO members, counting goods, services and accessions separately“. So lots of services agreements.
The WTO states: “Trade in services is growing faster than trade in goods … multilateral and bilateral trade negotiations have increasingly included services issues“. TiSA is currently being negotiated by 23 WTO members.
The Jan 2017 EU-US agreement on reinsurance is aimed at eliminating collateral requirements and local presence requirements as well as clarifying supervisory authority.
Remains (including you?) started off claiming the WTO didn’t even cover services. How often do you have to be so wrong before you accept that Remain propaganda is twaddle?
February 24, 2018
When the little people talk about Services, they automatically think financial services and the spiv City of London. Services are much broader; difficult to access and quantify. Worth having a read of, https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/bulletins/internationaltradeinservices/2016
February 25, 2018
Who are “the little people”?
February 25, 2018
Those in the bottom three quintiles of UK household income distribution.
February 26, 2018
Such a condescending attitude to people probably makes you feel right at home with the EU.
It’s just as well you comment under a pseudonym.
February 25, 2018
It may inform the opinions of other readers to learn that after all these decades of benefits from the EU the Lloyd’s insurance market gets just 4 per cent of its premiums from Europe – that is including Scandinavia and other bits not in the EU.
Lloyd’s receives 6 per cent of its insurance premiums from Florida, a place with which Britain has never had political union nor, so far as I know, have we ever had a trade treaty. There is no services treaty between the UK and USA but insurance (with which I am somewhat familiar) and other services are traded across borders without difficulty.
There is, of course, no EU internal market in services. There is an established system of mutual recognition and passporting but UK businesses can get around that easily by incorporating inside the EU. Similarly EU services businesses can (and are doing it) set up in Gibraltar to get access to the UK, not that they would need to do that because we do not propose to breach WTO rules by excluding their businesses.
February 26, 2018
JR. Could you please copy this commment by Epping and shove it under the nose of Mrs May and her 78% Remainer cabinet. They seem to be intent on bunging ÂŁ100bn or so to the EU so that we can continue to have a services agreement to suit the city slickers, as they think that they have a market for insurance and banking at present and will not have easy money when we leave. Possibly address it to Mr May too. It would be an awful lot of money for hard pressed taxpayers to waste on the slickers for nothing. They seem to be very good at wasting similar sums on unnecessary railways and wrong types of power generation, smart meters and other ideas. Or is it all just a story to convince the Brexiteers that they voted for a disaster?
February 24, 2018
Good Morning,
Our fisheries; please do not allow Mrs May to bargain away, again, our fishing grounds. The UK must produce a fishing policy quickly to husband this resource, and protect it. Suggest a properly funded protection mechanism and provide accelerated capital depreciation allowances for new UK fishing vessels.
Dr. Redwood, will you kindly ask a question of the Brexit team, in the House, concerning the work being carried out to prepare the UK for a ‘no FTA departure’. Will we be ready on 30-3-19 to leave the EU on WTO terms alone? As this outcome seems increasingly likely.
February 24, 2018
WTO terms alone. So that means every lorry checked at Dover, and then again at Calais. And the goods excluded unless they meet EU safety and technical and health standards. It means no flights – WTO does not cover airlines. It means the end of the City of London – WTO does not cover services. It means tens of thousands of expats returning to the Uk and demanding health care – WTO doesn’t cover people. Great plan!
February 24, 2018
Helena, please think big picture; solutions to ALL these issues were in place BEFORE the EU existed. The EU is a false administration – they are not needed. Sadly, all European nations have allowed a new bureaucracy to usurp what should be national responsibilities. Why did we allow it? And pay attention to where they are going – EU wide taxation, an independent military force; it WILL be the united states of Europe, under German control.
February 24, 2018
SCAREMONGERER!
No bad thing to increase lorry checks, particularly into the UK
Also goods excluded from UK unless they meet our standards, which will be for most tariff codes identical
No flights, yet some of us manage to fly to and from non-EU destinations
The rest is just baloney
February 24, 2018
You need to do some research before making your posts. 98% of goods landed from outside the EU – ie under WTO rules – are not checked in the kind of queues you envisage, they are pre-cleared. Airlines fly between many countries in the world, including non-EU ones. You can fly to the US from the U.K. – or even from France, even though the US isnât in the EU. It is this kind of ludicrous hyperbole, which people know to be drivel, that lost Remain the referendum.
February 24, 2018
Whilst it would be better to have mutual recognition of regulation to cover services, you are also absurdly exaggerating to talk about the end of the City of London. A small minority of the financial services industry’s activities are sales to EU customers, and nor is all of that dependent on EU membership or regulation. Do have a think before you post!
February 24, 2018
Helena – you seem to be under the impression that Project Fear is alive and well! Perhaps we who believe in the UK’s well being when we are independent of the execrable EU need enlightening – why should we remain? Dr Redwood has set out clearly the reasons why leaving is overwhelmingly to our benefit. Do you really believe that the EUrocrats are so vindictive and self-serving that they would shoot themselves in the foot just to make the UK suffer? It would please you and other naysayers, no doubt, but it’s unlikely to happen.
February 24, 2018
More than 50% of our imports are from non EU nations Helena.
Do you see any queues at the moment?
Export companies meet the many different standards and regulations in nations they export to.
This is what they do and have been doing for decades.
You show a lack of knowledge how goods move around the world and how border customs checks are done.
Hint…electronic.
I will not bother to counter the rest of your ridiculous project fear claims.
February 24, 2018
Wrong all the way through. You should be ashamed to tell such lies.
February 24, 2018
Nonsense, that doesnât happen now with goods from non EU countries! You havenât a scooby doo have you? Do you know how trade operates? Do you have your own business that trades worldwide? All you can see is blinkered EU threats and propaganda which they allegedly threaten to impose. It wonât happen because they wonât be allowed by member countries to impose such a system. They will lose too much in trade.
zorro
February 24, 2018
Our exports to EU already meet these so called standards. Try selling no flights into Spain and Greece, their economies will collapse. Youâve really swallow project fear.
February 24, 2018
@Helena: Do you stay up all night thinking this rubbish up? You are talking out of your proverbial backside. Most of the airlines are owned by foreigners in the EU, the City is too powerfull for the EU to dismantle, look at the failures such as the French have had trying to pinch our banks, even Deutchebank, Germany’s biggest bank has moved to London. There is nothing to stop the ex pats from staying in the EU unless the EU want us to kick out (I wish) all the EU foreigners in our Country? Don’t think so. You and the rest of your rEUmoaners want to wake up to the fact that we are thriving. The only thing wrong with the UK at the moment is we have a cancer, a canker and is is rEUmoaners. The sooner we cut them out of society the better, they are dragging the Country down.
Anyway it looks likely that between the Visigrad Country’s and Italy they will destroy the EU (oh please please please let it happen), then all this will be irelavent. We win , you lose. By the way, have you ever stopped to think what would happen if by some chance you rEUmoaners get your way and stop Brexit? Do you think 17.5Million Brexiteers as well as 1000s of truly Democratic Remainers are just going to say ‘oh well’? You and your kind would have to look to your laurels.
February 24, 2018
‘WTO does not cover airlines’. Right, but IATA is the international ruling body on airlines and regulates all aspects relating to air travel. The UK is a full IATA partner with full voting rights and has a definite say in IATA airlines and air travel regulation.
The EU is considered to be no more than ‘an interested party’ without voting rights. It is allowed to attend IATA sessions, the decisions arising from which the EU has to implement, because it has no authority to ignore them. It therefore follows that the EU cannot simply announce the ending UK flights into and out of Europe – or even make it more difficult out of spite – because it does not have the authority to amend or not comply with IATA regulations.
February 24, 2018
And searching here I found that the UK has 303 bilateral (mostly Air Services) agreements: https://cfapp.icao.int/dagmar/main.cfm
February 24, 2018
Helena, Is that a parody of the Remain position?
If not, you have been told many times that the WTO covers services; and its rules are comprehensive and global in their own right. From “The WTO In Brief”: “GATT is now the WTOâs principal rule-book for trade in goods. The Uruguay Round also created new rules for dealing with trade in services, relevant aspects of intellectual property, dispute settlement, and trade policy reviews. The complete set runs to some 30,000 pages …“.
February 24, 2018
So youâre saying currently only planes from EU countries can land at Heathrow ? Have you ever been there?
February 24, 2018
The question for UKG on fisheries is: 1) now that UKG has worked out that UK will have control – a mere consequence of UNCLOS – what does it plan to do with it? 2) how does it intend to meet is somewhat onerous responsibilities under UNCLOS, previously shouldered (badly) by the EU?
February 24, 2018
Indeed. There are reports in the media suggesting that Mrs. May does intend to bargain away our fishing waters. Our seas should be reclaimed and no foreign fishing boats allowed to operate there.
February 24, 2018
Without UK government hiring large foreign trawlers, the UK could not catch its current quotas! There is a lot more international law involved in fishing that just the EU rules. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/fisheries.pdf
We now appear to have, what is laughingly called “a government”; that has permanently transitioned into la-la land. JR’s post above is pure fantasy. It will take at least two five year parliaments to get back half of what we currently have in the EU!
All these little far away countries we are going to buy our oranges from; will not do trade deals with the UK, until they know what the UK’s deal with the EU might be. None of them is going to risk upsetting the largest trading bloc on the planet.
February 24, 2018
Acorn, So now according to you, not only will the EU not sell us their stuff, but the rest of the world won’t either? Your paranoia is beyond a joke.
February 25, 2018
They will all keep trying to sell us their stuff, regardless of any trade; commercial or economic formal agreements. UK households will still want to buy their stuff, because having it improves the quality and enjoyment of family life.
What will change will be the price of that stuff; and, possibly the availability of that stuff in supermarkets and showrooms. Not exactly conditions that get a political party re-elected.
February 24, 2018
So overriding concern for trading nations around the globe is a fear of being bullied by the EU’s protectionism?
Laughably untrue, but the claim reveals the classic internalised superego mindset of the dedicated europhiliac.
The recent cabinet decision for UK regulatory divergence means that whatever deal we choose to strike with the EU will be so framed as not to restrict our own future capacity for free trade deals with the world, and if the EU do not like that, they can lump it and go off in a huff.
What has so riled Tusk and the the EU bunnyboilers is that their sustained bluff has not so far succeeded. As for the huff, they know their eurozone economy, with growth almost entirely provided by German mercantilism and ECB ZIRP+moneyprinting, cannot ultimately afford a permanent, childish EU sulk. The irony is that they may have twigged that too late to save themselves.
February 24, 2018
typo: ‘So the overriding concern…’ etc
February 25, 2018
Dear Peter,
There is an interesting debate published in 1998 , it concerns our fishing .
I found it when I googled: prime minister May said ‘my word is my bond’
You will need to scroll down to the government records .
February 24, 2018
Dear Peter–Unfortunately I think it is close to a given that in the concessionary mindset that our side seem to think it is in our interest to be fixed with, it will rapidly be decided, as in the past under traitor Heath, that our fishing rights are a suitable subject to be handed over in the bargaining–The thinking will be that there are only so many fishermen so the politics can be borne–If, or more likely when, that happens, the EU, using its own usual logic, should at the very least pay us multiple billions for the privilege
February 24, 2018
PW, Wholeheartedly agree!
I was filled with utter dismay when I saw that ‘Fishing’ was one of the items on the agenda for discussion with the EU!
Take back ‘Fishing’ – end of! If there is a surplus of fish for our needs, then so be it. Leave the fish stocks to replenish themselves. It is stupid to allow fish to be caught to the verge of extinction just to appease EU interests. Any quid pro quo is likely to be illusory – existing only in the ‘World of May!
Save the Fisherman! – First and last!
February 24, 2018
If the UK went for the EEA Option then this would not be an issue since the CFP is not part of the EEA Agreement.
Idiots !!!
February 24, 2018
Mark B, The EEA agreement is in the gift of the EU. It is not something we can just acquire if we decide to. In any case the real problem is the appeasing mindset of our civil servants and the politicians under their control.
February 24, 2018
As seems the current ‘Phased’ Negotiations. Every Red Line has been crossed. Or have you not been paying attention.
The EEA Option was ready made and gave the EU little scope to manoeuvre.
February 24, 2018
That’s no reason at all to join the EEA. We do not need to pay the EU Commission billions per year for EEA membership just to take control of our legally enforceable fishing rights.
Wrong end of the telescope always from Remainers.
February 24, 2018
We will be paying billions per year just to be Associate Members, which we will.
February 24, 2018
Indeed, that is an example where the EU has allowed the single market “cherry picking” which it now says is totally unacceptable.
February 24, 2018
The EU refers to ‘cherry picking’ as if user choice is bad practice, yet only a crazy purchaser would accept the worthless things they don’t need.
The EU is like a fruiterer who sells cherries only if every customer buys their lemons, sour grapes & all other of their rubbish.
February 24, 2018
Doug
Agree absolutely,
If we do not have enough fishing boats then we can build some more, just like fishery protection vessels.
Built here means more jobs here, less fishing in our waters mean natural restocking for the future.
All fish caught in our waters to be landed in Uk ports, yet again more jobs here etc, etc,
So so logical, so why am I concerned the Government will not get it right !!!!
February 24, 2018
Fishing communities do not traditionally vote Conservative. That’s why it was easy for the Heath government to sell these people out.
Funny though how Labour are so quiet on this đ
February 24, 2018
Yes, not only must we take full control of our fisheries, we must be prepared to police our waters and arrest any ships fishing without UK permits. Follow little Iceland’s example and stand up for our rights! – – – and DON’T give away our seas – – – that is as bad as ceding Kent to the French and Essex to the Germans. Are we Brits or Jellyfish?
February 24, 2018
These are excellent speeches by Mr Redwood. They make clear we want control of our money, our borders and our laws, and that we want to continue trading with the EU on the same terms as before. Yet Mr Barnier and Mr Tusk say no! What I want to know is this – why are Barnier and Tusk not respecting the democratic will of the British people?
February 24, 2018
@Nadine; “These are excellent by Mr Redwood.”
Indeed, but that is all they are, campaign speeches, compared to in-depth annalist, board-bush ideas rather than (detailed) policy suggestions for the post-Brexit world we will have in a little over 13 months time.
February 24, 2018
jerry. Data miners and number crunchers, are trying to find out who is actually doing any of the former, in Whitehall, for Brexit 29/3/19.
The Civil Service (CS) is the tool of the government “executive”, and nobody else. If this current bunch of amateur ministers has instructed the CS to prepare UK WTO schedules and request amendments to hundreds of international agreements; then it is an exceptionally well kept secret.
Worth having a read of CEPS, https://www.ceps.eu/publications/impact-brexit-eu%E2%80%99s-international-agreements It gives you an idea of the size and complexity of the problem.
February 24, 2018
It also shows the dangers and complexities for the EU of pretending to ignore the potential legal and diplomatic pitfalls ‘to prevent its international position being weakened’ and to avoid being sued by third parties aggrieved at being robbed of ‘a sizeable chunk of the Single Market (64 million fewer consumers). And the rather prospect of the EU having to renegotiate every single mixed agreement without the UK, and needing to have them all individually ratified in 27 countries. Bonne chance with that.
Perhaps you didn’t read that far.
February 24, 2018
Because their experience of a limited form of democracy is only about sixty years old and it does not suit their purpose to encompass it fully.
February 24, 2018
Tusk and barnier are the real cake and eat it exponents here, whether we leave or go they want our money and our subservience to all their rules. The whole sorry process has become a fiasco entirely of our own making facilitated by a treacherous media an equally treacherous majority in both houses of parliament. Teresa may could well be playing a clever hand by allowing the eu to paint themselves firmly into a corner before showing them up for what they truly are before going on to tell them how it will be and what they will have to do if there is to be any deal at all, she never the less has a job on dealing with an eu negotiation when all the while parliament are aiming to have meaningful votes which would scupper the process. Canât the realise that they have already had a meaningful vote, the same one i had myself and the result was for us to leave the eu. Frankly i would waste no further time we should just say we are leaving next march and get on with putting in place all that is necessary to achieve precicely that, then you would see some real movement on the part of the europeans.
February 24, 2018
February 24, 2018
Gordon – I think we’re all hoping that Mrs May is playing ‘the long game’ and will surprise us all, come March next year.
February 24, 2018
Correct. Somebody made one of his usual rather silly comments about us being able to have our cake and eat it, and of course that is endlessly repeated back, but the truth is that at present it is the other way round. But unfortunately I don’t think Theresa May will ever be prepared to show them up. She started out being far too conciliatory by declaring her ongoing love, pleading that she still wanted a deep and special partnership with the EU – the obvious question then, WHY LEAVE? – when she should have pitched it at no more than a very friendly and co-operative relationship. Year after year it has been said by most UK opponents of EU membership that we wanted to be good friends with our European neighbours but we did not want to marry them, and nor did we want to be betrothed to them through a treaty committing us to “ever closer union” with them. I wonder whether that message really penetrated into the depths of her brain. In any case she is now the spurned and humiliated lover, publicly dismissed as delusional; perhaps as a woman scorned she will start to exhibit some traditional fury but somehow I doubt it.
February 24, 2018
Doug Powell
Totally with you on this one.
February 24, 2018
Nadine
why are Barnier and Tusk not respecting the democratic will of the British people?
Easy peezy. (they are not democratic ed).
February 24, 2018
“We have been changed from a country with a rich fishery”
That would be why, even before we joined the EEC, at a time when our requests to join were vetoed by the French, our UK fishing boats trawled the north Atlantic and sometimes into the self-declared territorial fishing waters of Iceland (the first “Cod War” was between 1958 and 1961).
“If a UK fishing policy requires fishermen to land everything they catch we will catch less and eat more”
So what policies are going to be used to stop UK fishing boats from catching fish until fully loaded, would the UK fishing industry be banned from exporting their catch, thus only what the UK could consume could be sold – fine but what of the waste, after all it probably costs little more for a fishing boat to land a full load than a half load, would it be policy that fines/costs be applied to the fishing boat owner whose catch goes unsold – or will it simply become a free for all, catch it whilst you can chaps, when its gone its gone.
Also who is going to tell the fish not to swim outside of the UK’s territorial waters and into the nets of those EU (and non EU) fishing nets?!…
“Our local supermarkets now are full of Danish bacon, Dutch salad stuffs, flowers and vegetables, Spanish fruit and French dairy products”
As they were before we even joined the EEC, at least for bacon, butter, cheese, the only difference was their source, Commonwealth or RotW rather than EEC/EU.
“German industry proved to be more competitive and we turned to huge imports as we saw unemployment in our manufacturing heartlands mount”
Or was it more about the fact that the German government chose to help and support their industries during the turmoil of the economic recessions during the mid 1970s through to the late ’80s and beyond rather than simply allow ‘market forced’ to do what ever?…
Why didn’t Mrs T pull the UK out of the EEC if it was so damaging to our economy, she could have done so quite easily in the early 1980s? Had we never been in the EEC would it have stopped us from simply importing ever greater amounts of cheaper goods from abroad, toys from Hong Kong, cars from Japan, engineering tools and products from the USA for example, all of which we were already doing before 1st Jan 1973.
“Out of the EU we can manage our trade more effectively.”
Perhaps, time will be the judge. The best thing though, no government, no politician, will be able to blame anyone other than themselves for our own economic mess, our own failed domestic polices! Brexit can’t happen soon enough, the buck will have finally stopped…
February 24, 2018
Just for fun, I propose a free trade deal with Israel. I miss their oranges, better quality than Spanish, about the same as Maltese. They have some pretty nifty technology too. Great people to work with How about it? It wouldn’t half upset the lefties which would be a great bonus.
February 24, 2018
The EU has a trade deal with Israel. After Brexit the UK will not be party to this
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/israel/index_en.htm
February 24, 2018
So Israel will be all the keener to replace it swiftly with a direct agreement with the UK, a known and reliable trading partner.
February 24, 2018
If all parties were agreeable then it would only require an exchange of letters for it to continue for the time being, which could then stretch out for many years before completely new treaties were agreed. But then of course your precious EU could prefer to be spiteful, and moreover go against all those articles in its treaties by which it is committed to trade liberalisation; indeed we are already seeing signs of such stupid hypocritical vindictiveness.
February 24, 2018
@PDG; It won’t just ‘upset’ the lefties, who in the man are peaceful people -compared to some….
Personally, I prefer Californian oranges.
February 24, 2018
Peter D Gardner
Nothing funny about that . Hard to bargin with at times but when the deal is done, it is done and they pay the agreed amount.
February 24, 2018
We need to restore all control and return it back to the UK. Remove the EU, its commission, its parliament and all their bodies of influence from the UK body politic.
If other EU member states want to sacrifice their sovereignty, independence and democratic control to foreign technocrats that’s their concern but the British people aren’t that naive. Nor are they that stupid
Yes to cooperation with other European nations. No to being ruled by European based technocrats and obstinate politicians
We can manage our own seas, its fish stocks and agriculture and thrive in these areas but more importantly we can take pride when that happens
I have no animosity towards our European neighbours. I love Europe and its composite nations but I despise the EU. It is a political organisation whose aim is the dilution and eventual absorption of all member nation states and their democracies. That is an abhorrence for any democrat
February 24, 2018
Duncan
We need to restore all control and return it back to the UK. Remove the EU, its commission, its parliament and all their bodies of influence from the UK body politic.
We have had 40 odd years not having to be competitive and playing the role of just being order takers and like a lot of our politicians they have allowed themselves to be cocooned by allowing other people to make the decisions for them whether good or bad for the country.
Our inbred competitiveness has been sacrificed on the high alter of EU membership and a lot of people are total scared to have to go out and earn their living by selling the hard sell.
February 24, 2018
Second that.
February 24, 2018
It’s not just British fishing that has been destroyed by the EU.
The steel industry, coal mining, paper production, cement manufacture on and on goes the list.
I have a running joke when speaking to people under fifty. I ask them if they remember things called factories, where hundreds of thousands of people earned their living.
February 24, 2018
âGerman industry proved to be more competitive and we turned to huge imports as we saw unemployment in our manufacturing heartlands mount.â
It was never a level playing field, as the EU are now saying they want to see.
I saw at first-hand how German companies were subsidised through false âresearchâ programs and now German car companies have been caught out cheating on diesel emissions to enhance their sales.
We didnât indulge in the CAP scams, such as those where the land area growing olives was bigger than the total land area of the country.
No EU country followed the open purchasing rules as we did.
Whatever damage the EU may be able to do to us outside the EU it is nothing compared to the damage they can wreak upon us when we are inside the EU and subject to their directives, rules and regulations decided either by unelected bureaucrats or by QMV.
February 24, 2018
This whole post today is making for really depressing reading.
February 24, 2018
The high margins are in fresh fish. Sadly, the latter are not only a perishable product but they are also mostly exported to the single-market.
Sorry to pop your bubble but for your idyllic fish policy to work, you will have collectively to do better than fish fingers. To help you in this difficult endeavour, please find below the receipt for a classic sauce meuniĂšre. Itâs a good start.
fish
1/2 cup all purpose flour
4 sole fillets (each about 3 to 4 ounces)
Coarse kosher salt
Freshly ground black pepper
2 tablespoons vegetable oil or canola oil
2 tablespoons (1/4 stick) unsalted butter
sauce
1/4 cup (1/2 stick) unsalted butter, cut into 4 pieces
2 tablespoons chopped fresh Italian parsley
1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice
Lemon wedges
February 24, 2018
@Tabulazero; Thanks for that, a taste of things to come hopefully, post Brexit – US style measures… đ
February 24, 2018
We don’t have to take all the fish out of the sea. We could look to meet our needs, which extend well beyond fish fingers, and fish more sustainably with less taken out for export as now. Clearly there is demand so reduced exports will also push up the prices and help our economy – rather than that of the EU.
Thanks for the American recipe, but no thanks.
February 24, 2018
It would require changing people taste. The interesting thing is that Britain export and import a lot. Take herring for example. Itâs a local fish. How much is there herring for sale compared to salmon (usually imported) at your local Tesco ?
February 24, 2018
Herring is still widely on sale in supermarkets, but not a lot of people remember that it was, and is, mostly sold and eaten in the shape of kippers (no, no, not UKippers!)…..
Before we joined the EU in the 70’s, herring ran each year in millions – literally millions – on their run to warmer waters down the east coast, keeping so many fisheries in business. Now that is no longer the case, because our seas have been trashed by predatory EU fihing boats, notably the Spanish.
Much of the Herring in our shops are now caught in other waters, not the UK. In fact we, from being a net exporter of fish, thanks to the EU we are now a net importer to keep ourselves fed. Remainers conveniently do not recognize that….
When I was young, every year the whitebait would run along the south coast, followed by huge shoals of mackerel. One could catch them without boat, simply using feathered hooks trailed behind a rowing boat but, again, after joining the EU and the traitorous Heath surrendering our fishing waters to other nations, all that has gone and Mackerel are now almost a rarity in our waters.
Problem is, it is usually only us older people who remember what happened and I doubt that a modern-day youngster would have any idea at all as to the difference between a Herring and a Mackerel.
Try to tell them how it was and what the EU fishery policies have done to our fleets, to people’s living etc and one would be shrugged off as a hopeless fairy-tale teller.
February 25, 2018
You choose to miss the point entirely – we will choose who gets to fish in our EEZ waters, not the EU. Our diet may change, it has for hundreds of years as we explored and traded globally. We may even go back to a wider consumption of a broader landed catch as we did up to the 1950’s.
Certainly as the rest of our foodstuffs fall in cost toward local and world prices there may be more household budget available for more expensive fish.
But these will be our concerns, not the EU’s, and our fishing industry, not the EU’s, can grow to meet the European demand.
February 25, 2018
Most cheap salmon is farmed in Scotland.
February 24, 2018
Tab. Your comment is beyond contempt and totally ignorant.
February 24, 2018
What is really sad is that no one had the idea of shutting me down with a traditional British fish receipe. It would tend to prove my point : the British people have forgotten how to cook their local fish.
Haddock Chowder
Ingredients
25g butter
1 tbsp sunflower oil
1 medium onion, chopped
20g plain flour
400ml semi-skimmed milk
400ml just-boiled water
2 medium potatoes (approximately 200g each), peeled, cut into roughly 2cm cubes
Πtsp salt
freshly ground black pepper
100g sweetcorn kernels
125g sliced leeks
4 x 90g smoked haddock fillets
4 large free-range eggs (optional)
handful roughly chopped fresh flatleaf parsley leaves, to garnish (optional)
February 24, 2018
@fedupsoutherner; No it wasn’t, but I guess the truth hurts some Brexiteers when their “reasons for Brexit” are not quite as they wish – @Tabulazero was dishing out some home truths!
February 24, 2018
What a silly, pointlessly patronising, waste-of-time post. I’m surprised our host didn’t immediately consign it to the bin.
February 24, 2018
Because tongue-in-cheek it may be, it raises an interesting point: consumption patterns are what they are and fresh fish (where the money is) is mostly consumed outside the UK and in the Single-Market.
Why do you think Grimsby is asking for a Freeport status post-Brexit ?
The interaction of fish policy, costal communities and Brexit is actually a fascinating subject.
February 24, 2018
@Tabulazero; You have to understand that for many (and not just Brexiteers nor just Brexit) the UK fishing industry is not about the fish, it is about our territorial waters – it’s a sovereignty issue, not an economic or dietary issue.
February 25, 2018
Reading Mr Redwood blog and the comments of the true Brexit believers I have come to the conclusion that Brexit has more to do with an English Identity crisis than the European Union.
Thatâs why I think they will be ultimately disappointed. Brexit Iâd a good question but a bad answer.
February 24, 2018
Fish is food and we can survive on food.
Fine. Insult us.
Scrap GCHQ. Scrap Trident. Scrap the Royal Marines. Scrap the SAS.
Brexiters don’t actually have any aspirations to rule the world. In fact we are utterly sick of it.
The EU is sovietisation and not one person has been able to explain to me what is wrong with wanting to be a *little Englander*.
February 25, 2018
Cause being a little Englander in an ever globalised world might be very tempting but not help you much in the future, especially if you are not retired yet and protected by a triple-lock pension. The world is simply not what it used to be.
February 24, 2018
In Spanish supermarkets, it is usually possible to buy ‘fresh’ cod at a third to a half of the price of their UK counterparts.
Presumably most of this cod is ‘liberated’ from British waters, yet has a greater distance to travel to its final markets, so why is it so much cheaper?
Are the Spanish trawlers leaving us so little cod that prices are driven up in the UK, or do we have a more inefficient/greedy distribution system?
Spanish and Chinese trawlers are the fish pirates of the modern age, pillaging other nations’ stocks all over the world. Sadly, I believe our government will be soft on the subject of EU trawlers pillaging our fish stocks post-Brexit, using it as a major concession to get a final deal, as so few votes are involved.
The UK should adopt the Icelandic fishing policy, where the consequences of foreign poaching are extremely punitive, so there isn’t any.
February 24, 2018
@Peter Miller; “”[…/more sound-bites and scapegoats/…]”
You’ll need to be more specific than just saying “Cod” I’m afraid, the ‘cod’ you see might not even be cod, being Pollock instead [1], and in any case much Cod is not fished within British waters, at least those that are internationally accepted.
[1] the Bay of Biscay being one of the prime fishing areas for Pollock, and a native Spanish fishing ground.
“The UK should adopt the Icelandic fishing policy, where the consequences of foreign poaching are extremely punitive, so there isnât any.”
That is easy for Iceland to do, after all they have 200 miles plus of water between them and any other country, the UK doesn’t! I do doubt that the UK fishing fleets will be happy to be restricted to a internationally recognised 12 mile limit in retaliation to your suggested policy…
February 25, 2018
The UK has an EEZ out to 200 miles – SI 2013 no. 3161 Marine Management, The Exclusive Economic Zone Order 2013.
which came in to force 31st March 2014.
I would expect there to be some reciprocal arrangements with other coastal states, as practiced by Norway, but we should still control police the EEZ to the same vigor and treatment of illegal operations as Iceland.
February 25, 2018
@David Price; EEZ are meaningless gobbledygook when talking about territorial waters claims, they can not be legally enforced, even less so if the UK tries to ‘bully’ the EU27!
200 miles east of Dover is the City of Maastricht!
200 miles south of the Lizard Point is the Bay of Biscay.
200 miles west of Barra (off the western cost of Scotland) is the North Atlantic, but that is also within 200 miles of Eire’s own northern cost.
200 miles north of the Faroe Islands is within Iceland’s own 200 mile zone.
200 miles east of the Shetland Islands is the shores of Norway…
February 26, 2018
You really don’t know what you are talking about do you. Even worse you can’t even be bothered to try to do some basic research before venting your spleen.
The SI I quoted has coordinates and a map associated with it that shows the UK’s local EEZ which accommodates the EEZ areas of neighbouring costal states. UNCLOS places requirements on the UK to properly manage and administer the EEZ and being based on international law also requires other states including your sacred EU to behave correctly.
February 26, 2018
@David Price; It is you who truely doesn’t know what you are talking. Even worse you canât even be bothered to do basic research yourself before venting your spleen and accusing others of failing to do their basic research.
Those coordinates you cite can and are being disputed, not (as yet) the UK EEZ but who knows what will happen post Brexit when the EU27+ no longer have access, especially when there is so much overlap of possible EEZ. According to some published sources, “When an overlap occurs, it is up to the states to delineate the actual maritime boundary”, I can just see the EU entering a dispute about our and their overlaps!
Anyway, what if the UN later changes or abandons EEZ’s. People such as you Mr Price want Brexit so that “we can take back control” (govern ourselves) yet at the first hurdle you want fishing policy built upon some (possibly) transient world governance!
February 24, 2018
Because most of the cod caught in British waters by British fishermen is exported to Spain.
What is Spain ? a Catholic country. What do catholics eat on Friday ? Fish.
It’s cheaper because the volumes are so much bigger. Also, do not forget that British trawlers unload their cargo directly in EU ports (not so much in Spain but definitely in France).
Now factor in the loss of access to the single-market (the main market for British fish) and the inevitable custom check delay and you may understand why post-Brexit might not be so rosy for British fishermen.
All fishermen are pirates, by the way. It’s the nature of the industry. Ask the Icelander what they think of the British fishermen. The cod wars are not forgotten.
February 24, 2018
Peter, the reason is the vastly bigger market for fish in Spain. Economy of scale plays a role in the final price. Traditionally Basque fishermen caught their cod on the Grand Banks, hence so much salted cod in Spain.
In my once local Tesco I have never seen a whole cod, hake, monkfish, turbot, or tuna on the counter. In Spain both supermarkets I use display the above whole and in volume along with almost every crustacean you can think of. Most Brits would not know what to do with a whole fresh anything, very sad. The Spanish do and you will find such displays all over Spain.
Post Brexit we can develop a sustainable exporting fishing industry. I would licence foreign boats in acceptable volume, because I would not wish to destroy the businesses of EU fishermen. Plus I do not see fleets of fishing boats on the slipways ready to go after March 2019, or for that matter the fishermen.. I would create a large fishing protection fleet, nothing over 150 feet, run by the Royal Navy. Great command experience for junior officers. I can think of at least two UK companies that would welcome orders for suitable vessels.
You are quite right about the ultimate Icelandic sanction, there should be no grey areas in our territorial waters.
February 24, 2018
@agricola; You raise some interesting ideas but even if the RN had both the ships and the crews how on earth are we going to police our water, it would be easy to challenge any trawler not carrying a UK registration and the White Ensign but how can catch quantity be policies if the catch is not being landed in the UK and we have removed ourselves from wider EU oversight – any EU27 trawler would effectively be akin to a Russian factory ship.
February 25, 2018
We do have fishmongers here you know and they tend to be better than the supermarkets. Our local monger carries a range of whole fresh fish including bass, bream, sea trout, monkfish, brill, halibut, plaice, sole and many other fresh fish as well as crustacea.
We need to take back control of our EEZ and manage it for our benefit, that may mean actively encouraging people to eat more fish or simply export more. It may take a while to rebuild the fleet and industry but it must be to to the benefit of our people and economy not the EUs
February 24, 2018
Under the CAP, British trawlermen firstly have been starved of quotas and second been bribed to scrap their trawlers whilst Spaniards have been afforded with our money to purchase new trawlers for the purpose of thieving our fish.
Right from the off, we have been set up as the donor nation, the nation that pays, the nation whose natural assets are to be plundered or set aside, the nation whose industries are to diminished, whose markets are to be plundered, the nation whose politicians have been in thrall to the ambition for United States of Europe at whatever cost since the time of Macmillan.
Alan Sked has published a paper entitled “TIME FOR A CHANGE
British Conservatism and the politics of Brexit”. In it he quotes De Gaulle responding to Macmillan’s request “Why, he asked, would Britain, which was a wealthy country, with access to cheap food from the Commonwealth, which possessed democratic institutions and had a nuclear deterrent and strong global connections, want to join the EEC?” Quite. He further writes “Edward
Heath met [Jean Monnet] in secret regularly while Douglas Hurd arranged, through the private account of Lord Edwin Plowden in the City, for the Tory party to become a secret corporate member of Monnetâs Action Committee
for a United States of Europe. The initial fee was ÂŁ15,000. According to
Monnetâs chief aide and biographer, Francois DuchĂȘne, the Labour and
Liberal parties joined later.” Does anybody remember a LIbLabCon election manifesto announcing that their objective was to fuse our nation into a United States of Europe? No, because the strategy has always been to pursue their treason by stealth: softly, softly, catchee monkey!
February 24, 2018
Were the UK dedicated fish and shellfish consumers, the counters in our supermarkets would not be the miserable limited affairs they are. This despite the valiant efforts of Rick Stein.
Most, 90%, of what the UK catches of Langostines (Dublin Bay Prawns, Scampi, Cigalas) are exported. Many of our rivers are infested with American Crayfish to the chagrin of anglers, but nobody considers turning them into the delightful product they can be. If we do regain our fishing grounds and industry then it will largely be an export industry.
There is much to be gained by our farmers, providing they major on quality and marketing. The UK cheese industry fed by artisan farm manufacturers now rivals the French. The UK bacon industry is by and large dreadful, selling a product packed with water and salt. Run of the mill Spanish bacon leaves it for dead. Bacon in the UK is marketed as something special if it is air dried. It isn’t special, it is the basic norm. Most of the meat in supermarkets has not been given time to die .Twenty eight day hung beef should be the norm, not something special. The UK mass food industry and the supermarkets through which it’s products are sold has a lot to answer for in terms of the nations health.
Leaving the EU will be a time of great opportunity, those who take it will thrive, but I do not anticipate the UK population changing it’s eating habits overnight just because the options are there.
February 24, 2018
I donât think you understand how far in decline our fishing industry is. Take Fleetwood which used to be the third largest fishing port in the country. Sixty years ago it had 120 trawlers, the industry employed thousands of local people, and now it has no trawlers left. Its dockside has been turned into a shopping mall. Its processing plants demolished for housing. Its RORO ferry service terminated. Itâs one of the few towns where the population is going down because all the jobs have been taken away. Thereâs no point winning back the fishing grounds if we donât have the infrastructure to catch, land and process the fish. There needs to be fair prices paid to our fishermen who risk their lives. Ask why Spanish trawler men can travel all this way and manage to make a profit but we canât. There is far more required than just winning back fishing grounds and action needs to be taken now.
If we continue to concrete over our farmland to build yet more houses where do you expect to grow anything? My area once lush green fields with cows on is now a sprawling housing estate.
You may have confidence in TM but I donât trust a word she says anymore.
February 24, 2018
Because the Fishermen of Fleetwood sold their boats and the attached quota to the Spanish. Now they want the quotas back for free. Cheeky.
What exactly did the fishermen of Fleetwood do with the money they received ?
February 24, 2018
The work should go to the most competitive. Locality might be a benefit.
February 25, 2018
I think you are missing the point THEY don’t exist any more neither does the fishing port. No point getting back our fishing grounds if we don’t have the infrastructure and fishermen to catch and process the fish.
February 24, 2018
I have never liked or trusted Theresa May. Her nasty party speech was absurd. She was home secretary for 6+ years but achieved virtually nothing. In this role she pretended to be aiming for “net migration in the tens of thousands” but did not such think. She even pathetically sent out unpleasant advertising vans telling illegal immigrants to “Go home or face arrest” – all at tax payer expense.
Then she lied to voters in the EU referendum that being out of Schengen gave us control of out borders (this to deceive them into a remain vote).
She absurdly seems to think there is a real gender pay gap and forces companies to waste time and money on this. Clearly she does not understand the figures, the different jobs the genders do or work life balance choices the genders on average take.
She is a tax borrow and piss down the drain, high tax, big government interventionist. She is not a Real Tory in any sense. On top of that she is robotic and a huge electoral liability. She even thinks that Hammond is suitable to be the Chancellor! She also wants to attack the gig economy and “build on EU workers rights” and even build the absurd waste of money that is HS2.
She is wrong, wrong, wrong on every issue.
February 24, 2018
But still she is better than Corbyn but then who is not.
February 24, 2018
Indeed fishing and fish farming have been hugely damaged by the EU.
But we do also need far smaller government, far cheaper on demand energy, more people with sensible degrees and practical skills (and fewer people with worthless ones), more roads, better airports, more real competition in banking, lower & simpler taxes, relaxed planning, to abandon the EU model, get fracking and have huge deregulation almost everywhere.
We also need freedom and far more real competition in education & health care.
It does not look like we will get any of this this from ex(?) remainers & tax borrow and piss down the drain people May & Hammond.
February 24, 2018
Stephen Hammond Conservative MP:
“By joining EFTA, the UK could be at the forefront of creating a new common market between European nations without the controversial CFP, CAP and justice and home affairs policies. It would be a grouping dedicated to free trade and economic prosperity, while respecting national sovereignty.”
February 24, 2018
It would be a grouping committed to unfettered free movement of persons not only between its own member states but also with the member states of the EU.
We should never have left the EFTA that we helped to establish, but the EFTA we left is no longer there to be rejoined.
http://www.efta.int/legal-texts/efta-convention
“The European Free Trade Association (EFTA) was established by a Convention signed in Stockholm on 4 January 1960.
A revised Convention, the Vaduz Convention, was signed on 21 June 2001 and entered into force on 1 June 2002.”
http://www.efta.int/legal-texts/efta-convention/detailed-overview-of-the-efta-convention
“The updated EFTA Convention, the Vaduz Convention, was signed on 21 June 2001 and entered into force on 1 June 2002, in parallel with the EU-Swiss Bilateral Agreements. It included several significant changes, of which the most important was the integration of the principles and rules established between the EU and the EEA EFTA States in the EEA Agreement, and between the EU and Switzerland in the EU-Swiss Bilateral Agreements. Important new provisions included the free movement of persons, trade in services, movement of capital and protection of intellectual property.”
I’ve told you this before on several occasions but you just ignore it; as for Stephen Hammond, from his article it seems he is totally confused about it.
February 24, 2018
Good morning.
And when will that be ? According to David Davies MP, under the terms of our withdrawal, the UK will still be under the ECJ. It will be the ECJ that will decide policy dictates from the Commission, or High Authority to give its proper title. And with this ‘transition’ looking like a state of purgatory for BREXIT, one can only assume that this, just like so many other promises given by MP’s, is only aspirational. David Lammey (sp) MP was right, the Referendum was not legally binding.
And reading from many a person’s posts (eg Denis Cooper and Richard1 to name a few) they seem to be coming round to the idea that we are to be fobbed off with BREXITINO.
How luck the CONservative Party is that :
a) we will not be having another GE for over 4 years.
b) that there is no truly Eurosceptic party around in which people can vote on. UKIP being in utter turmoil.
February 24, 2018
Short and to the point. No Links. In moderation – again !
What this time ? đ
February 24, 2018
How much of what you lament is the result of home made weakness? Management, lack of longer term views, mercenary finance and so on. UK owners earn more from the City as landlords than as entrepreneurial firms. The latter statement may be true or not but it has a nice ring to it and has not been researched I believe. Just to show how easy it is to simplify perceived problems.
The simple fact is that, yes, British firms withdrew from many productive (manufacturing, non-real estate related services) activities and are not very good in domestic services efficiency. Look at the NHS (cheap but relatively poor quality), UK domestic banks (expensive, poor quality weak operating efficiency compared to peers) and look at how easy LIDL and ALDI are growing market share. Farming and fishing happen within the Single Market. Why is a small densely populated country like Holland very competitive as an exporter (also from the EU, not only within) in those areas and the UK not? I expect that a UK cut off from the EU structure will still struggle to compete with EU farmers for industrial reasons, not protectionist ones. Chili, New Zealand and the US will have an impact but will not replace all of the current EU imports, while they may deliver a final blow to UK farming. Then again fishing: most fish caught by Dutch and Danish fishermen in the UK parts of the North sea is unpopular in England. Would that change. Besides, those fishermen wil simply reflag some of their boats, start a few UK based cooperatives for marketing and processing and may hire Filipinos if they cannot find suitable UK staff.
February 24, 2018
Even before the inevitable acrimonious approach to our exit by the EU we were keen to buy UK or Irish sourced foods, since then it has become automatic to buy non EU products if possible.
Sort of unrelated hands up anyone who has watched the BBC’s vastly expensive coverage of the winter olympics. Usual carefree spending of our money.
February 24, 2018
I’ve only got one thing to say this morning and that is to ask what was the point in our vote or voting in any other election or referendum? I am still too depressed and angry to bother to put anything else.
February 24, 2018
@ fedupsoutherner
You echo my thoughts exactly but I do live in hope our government will still pull a bunny out of the hat.
I’m not holding my breath though!
February 24, 2018
Strangely this could easily have been given as a speech by Corbyn 10-20-30 years ago.
What’s happened to him that he has been smothered by the Blairite pillow until on the point of suffocation?
February 24, 2018
I agree with much of what you have written as usual Mr Redwood but seek clarity on Our membership of the EU confronted us in its early days with the abolition of tariff walls which had protected some of our industry
I tend towards protectionism and am hopeful that after we leave the EU we will produce more of the food and goods we consume ourselves. A Britain first approach similar to the one that President Trump is advocating. Our prices on goods will be higher if we do this so we will consume less tat.
What you have written above seems to favour tariffs but I thought you and many of your fellow EU Sceptic Conservative MPs favoured completely free trade. Please clarify.
Reply I favour fair free trade, i.e. mutual not one sided removal of barriers. Wjhen we entered the EU we removed barriers which hit some of our industries but did
did not get similar removals in areas where we were strong What unites Eurosceptics is not one vision of free trade but that we the UK people and Parliament should decide our trade policy under WTO rules
February 24, 2018
Humpty Dumpty sat on the wall..and we know what happened..all of the kings horses and all of the kings men couldn’t put poor humpty together again.
And this is what JR is proposing today that we return to a time of the 1950’s and 1960’s..they were good years in a lot of respects, I remember them well- but there is no turning the clock back to that time..both of these industries that are of topic of discussion this morning are very labour intensive..I will go further and say both are probably, after mining, the most laborious of the lot- young british people today are not going to turn out in sufficient numbers to do this work- not in the year 2018. So back to the drawing board- as one journalist put it recently the government is like a cat caught up in a tree and doesn’t know how to get down – hence we are getting all of these crackpot ideas, today farming and fishing? tomorrow the revival of the merchant navy?
February 24, 2018
I find the news depressing as well as unreliable . Something very positive must emerge from Chequers otherwise Theresa has absolutely no chance of survival . “Fudge” is the word being pushed around and I can understand why . Compromise has never been the way forward ; positive action requires a confident and steady hand at the tiller with a clear view of the way ahead . Theresa has this last chance to put our case forward that clearly shows how weak the EU is now and how it will be without us . We have everything to gain from a clean break .
February 24, 2018
More interesting is Ms. Sourberry and her amendment to keep us in the Customs Union.
It appears this may find favour with May and Hammond who are after all Remainiacs so will welcome losing the vot.
As J R-M says, we are heading for BRINO or Vassal statehood within Europe, what right do a self serving bunch of nobodies have to overturn the vote of 17.4 million people.
I wish them all ill.
February 24, 2018
Looks like EU is not going to support our free trade idea with them.
Cant we just create a free trade zone with Russia?
EU is trying to negotiate Common Fee Space with Putin et co but maybe we could do it first?
February 24, 2018
One thing is without doubt is that when governments, their agencies and bureaucrats are involved in our lives be it economically, socially and ideologically then we suffer damage. So it puzzles me that having to suffer local and a national governments we then take another step further and that a giant one and sign up to one that is even larger, more complex, less accountable and that filled with apparatchiks with delusions of grandeur and arrogant self importance, the EU. It is therefore no surprise that you can so easily pinpoint and list all that it does that does us so much harm in not only in your article today but in the many others that you have written.
What makes it so easy for you is that unlike smaller domestic governments they cannot hide their total ineptitude and their incoherent decisions and policies. The EU’s size and hierarchical position in governments precludes them dressing up those failings and presenting them as the best possible actions and solutions available. Domestic governments can because we have only the private sector to which compare them with which is not like for like. However the EU is like for like with domestic governments so the EU’s deficiencies are much easier to observe and compare and what we do find is that as bad as domestic governments are they are far more preferable than that of the EU.
February 24, 2018
John, you did not answer my question yesterday regarding May’s offer to repatriate 111 new powers to Scotland and no doubt Wales and NI similar once we get them back from the EU whilst of course offering no powers whatsoever for England.
If that’s the case and she hands fisheries to the devolved nations, wont’t this create a new kind of competition and arguments about what are Scottish waters and what are English waters and whilst Scotland will have Sturgeon and the Scots Government banging the drum for Scotland’s fishing rights, England will only have May and the UK Government who will no doubt be banging the drum for Scotland’s fishing rights also.
It seems a lose lose for England’s f isherman but why should we be surprised?
Reply The devolution settlement of new powers post Brexit has not yet been decided so I cant answer. There will be a Lords Amendment tabled by the government in due course which sill give us more insight. The UK will retaimn control of UK wide fishing policy and international negotiations about it.
February 24, 2018
Reply to reply:- thanks for your reply John. I do hope you will speak up for England and the insult to it not to mention problems May will be creating if she thinks she can repatriate all these new powers to the rest of the dis-UK whilst still refusing to recognise England’s right to the same level of self government.
February 24, 2018
Without question, fishing and full control of territorial waters should not even be considered for discussion. It should simply be a given.
Following speeches by Boris Johnson and David Davis, we have had a full day of discussion by the Cabinet. We are none the wiser and I do not believe we will learn anything more when Mrs May makes her speech next week. I expect fudge after fudge will eventually lead to a very bad deal that will give us Brino. Will the Government be ready for WTO on the 29th March 2019?
February 24, 2018
BOF.. full control of territorial waters extends to three miles off the the UK coast so there should be no trouble in asserting our control here since we never lost it.
As regards fishing limits- the limits prior to the setting up of the EEC fishery limits extended out to 12 miles only from a baseline around our coast so there should be no trouble in negotiating that either.
The problem will come when we want to claim what is regarded as EU waters that includes for EU fishery and EU mineral rights extending out to 200 miles. They are not going to give us this – it’s just not going to happen
February 24, 2018
Farms?? Don’t you need wide open spaces for those? Wide open spaces and a million freeloaders a year walking in looking for their free houses, schools and hospitals do NOT go together.
February 24, 2018
I read Tony Blair, on World at One, praised the EU because of our trading surplus with it. In fact our deficit is 80 billion. Another âporkyâ. Their arguments are getting more ridiculous, almost daily.
February 24, 2018
And Blair’s long, twelve-minute tissue of lies was barely interrupted, let alone adequately challenged, by the hapless World at One presenter Mark Mardell.
February 24, 2018
If I was you fedupsouthern I would not give up on voting just yet, independent people will be standing all over the UK at the next election under full recall, that means that an independent MP in your area will answer to you the rules, the people of that area and not some jump up party thrust upon you by the establishment and the media with scary storeys.
If you are going to be an independent country in the future, you need independent thinking people at the heart of your democracy who answer to you the rules of the kingdom, not some party that is controlled by a few people who never give the people what they want.
Party are more interested in winning over small groups of people inside the country to bolster there vote to win an election with bad policies and appeasing to other countries outside of the UK for few who control the party in government.
That’s why voting for independent MPs would in most cases be the best option for the rules of the UK, the people because they come with no baggage and will vote the way the rules/ the people wantthem to.
February 24, 2018
I agree with your post. Stuff we already know……
What are the government’s plans though….. .?. They must have some by now
Where are the extra fishing patrol boats we will need? We only have 3 boats for the whole of southern England Any plans for them to be commissioned? Seems to me the “transition” is just a cover up for ministers and civil service to do nothing
Also what about extra border control/ immigration officers we will need? What about extra passport booths at airports and channel crossings? What about extra lorry parks? And upgrading the input/export computerised system (CHIEF)?
February 24, 2018
Fairweather..none of what you want will be delivered because we will remain in some sort of customs union with them..that is the reality..there are no new international trade deals waiting out there for us..we will remain in a position where we will be half in and half out that will avoid a hard Irish border and we only have ourselves to blame since we made that border 100 years ago, of course never thinking that it would have repercussions today.. so it looks like mrs mays last throw of the dice the three baskets idea will fail abysmally so next option Canada Plus where we will continue to pay in for some free trade items and services access but have no vote in anything..the worst of all worlds but it’s what we voted for..some of it anyway
February 24, 2018
I’m not much bothered by self sufficiency in food.
That’s why we have ‘trade’. We sell things that we make best, and buy things from others.
I’ve never grown a single calorie’s worth of food, in my life, but I eat great.
My concern about the EU, is that, like the Corn Laws, it promotes the interests of farmers over that of consumers.
Fish however, is a different matter. The Common Fisheries Policy, must have been biggest sell out in UK History.
This is nothing to do with trade or a Single Market etc, It’s about who owns the resource.
Surrendering fishing in UK water to all comers, is no different from telling them all they can come and drill for and extract oil in the North Sea, without the UK having any say in it.
If they want to come and fish in UK waters after we Leave the EU, we can charge them for a licence to do it.
But after we’ve left, I’m hoping to be able to buy tariff free butter from Australia and Lamb from New Zealand.
February 24, 2018
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/923408/Tory-rebel-Dominic-Grieve-Brexiteers-Remainers-Commons-defeat
Enough is enough kick Soubry and grieve and anyone else who is against the U.K. leaving the dreaded Eu out of your party, they are totally against Britain and un democratic no Matter how many times they lie about being for the referendum vote, if that means another GE because of it so be it, the 17.4 leave voters and growing now have a bloody good idea who is for Great Britain and who are for their land of milk and honey the dreaded Eu , and that also goes for the labour/libs/green/Welsh/snp
February 24, 2018
The General Secretary of the Labour Party, Mr Iain McNicol, has stood down. From right to left in the Party from Benn to Corbyn have all said how astounding a job he has been doing. So why has he been forced out? Was he found reading a book without pictures?
February 24, 2018
So your post Brexit fishing policy is that we will eat more fish.
Staggering. Simply staggering.
February 24, 2018
Andy, Not staggering, simply supply and demand. Plus that all the value of our fish will accrue to us rather than most to the EU.
February 24, 2018
We can survive on basic food.
I can thrive on a cheese and pickle sandwich and a flask of tea atop a Lakelands mountain. The best meal there is. What do you like, Andy ?
Quinoa in an over heated restaurant in Islington ?
February 24, 2018
this is a great solution.
Currnetly we pay more than 30% more for UK beef than imported beef, so we will be supporting the British farmers which is a good idea, but at 30% more I think some of us, might think twice about the solution outlined by John as a great idea
February 24, 2018
The bottom line is that Brexit voters will never be happy.
Something will always anger you. You will always find someone to blame.
It will always be someone elseâs fault.
Actually – it is entirely down to you.
Brexit will be a disaster and YOU will own it.
Good luck explaining it to your children and grandchildren.
They are already mad at you. And they sort out your care homes. Oops.
February 24, 2018
Andy, It’s certainly mad to want your own country subjugated to a foreign empire based on Remain lies about how rich we’ll all become as Quislings.
February 24, 2018
Won’t have to – as you keep telling us we will all be dead, although not quick enough for you. Anyway, too busy at present spending their inheritance.
February 24, 2018
Andy if you change the word to Remainers your post fits much better.
February 24, 2018
We are not going back to the 50s as so many Remainers claim.
– we have thermal clothing
– we have double glazing
– we have cars that don’t need weekend servicing and rarely go wrong
– we have entertainment in microscopic scale (free of the BBC)
– food will always be cheap by comparison to the 50s.
– drugs are more available than ever if we want a quick high if things go really bad.
Stuff the EU dictatorship and their un-free market which demands we give up home rule. There is nothing to fear.
February 24, 2018
When Britain leaves the EU, the Spanish (and other) fishing fleets are simply going away. They will be back within days, poaching British fish for their existing customers. The buyers won’t care where the fish come from.
That means that the fishing areas will need defending. Britain will have to invest in a proper Coastguard. Which will need to be armed, and comprised of at least 50 small but powerful ships.
I have to say that such a Navy makes a lot more sense than those two monstrous white elephants of aircraft carriers.
February 24, 2018
Re my previous comment:
The most important word in the first sentence is missing — *NOT* !! … not going away…
Sorry!
February 24, 2018
Well Andy, you talk about the UK bring a great country now before we have left the EU but who made it so? I can tell you. It was those pensioners you continually run down. What is wrong with you?
February 24, 2018
Watched your broadcast tonight John and was impressed. Can’t say that about many of our politicians.
February 25, 2018
I see Nigel F is again with Trump and his advisors, seems he has a better relationship with foreign leaders than our own supposed diplomatic service…