The government should not sign the draft Withdrawal Agreement with the EU

I have advised the government not to sign a one sided Withdrawal Agreement. They have always confirmed they will not sign it unless and until it is balanced by a good Future Partnership Agreement, which is still nowhere to be seen. I need to remind them why the present draft Withdrawal Agreement is thoroughly unsuitable for the UK anyway.

The UK voted to leave the EU and its complex binding legal Treaty architecture. We will do so thanks to Parliament passing the Notification of Withdrawal Act and the EU Withdrawal Act. We did not vote to recreate much of the legal structure by immediately signing a new binding Treaty with some of the characteristics of the one we are quitting. The long and complex document is mainly written for the benefit of the EU, to lock the UK into continuing financial and legal obligations that are not appropriate to an independent country.

Several clauses assert the supremacy of European law and the ECJ. The EU side believes any such Agreement is ultimately a matter for the ECJ to interpret. Article 4 requires the UK and UK courts to follow ECJ decisions when taking cases under the Agreement. The Joint Committee to be established to police the Agreement can refer matters to the ECJ for adjudication where the two parties disagree, and the EU side thinks they should have the right to do this even where the UK does not want the ECJ involved!

Extensive rights are to be granted under the Agreement to EU nationals who come to the UK after we have left  but are still in transition, and family members qualify after we have left even though they have not come to the UK prior to departure. In other words the UK does not have the right to decide its own borders policy after departure for many EU citizens.

The draft Agreement also seeks to restrict the UK’s freedom to run its own benefits policy after March 2019.

The Agreement is wide ranging, seeking to bind us in to elements of the common Home and defence policies, trade and goods regulation, public contracts and various regulatory bodies.

It offers comprehensive immunities and exemption from UK taxes to a wide range of senior EU officials, and provides for secrecy over various EU matters.

The financial provisions are particularly detailed and onerous. Clauses 133-6 provide for continuing budget contributions and pension payments long after we have left, with prolonged exposure to the European Investment Bank risks without access to any new loans.

We voted to leave intimidating legal restrictions and Agreements like this one, not to volunteer for another.

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  1. Mark B
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    It offers comprehensive immunities and exemption from UK taxes to a wide range of senior EU officials, and provides for secrecy over various EU matters.

    As Orwel wrote: All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than others

    And there you have it. This is the EU writ large. A self serving cabal of paracites. No wonder our MP’s were so bemused by outrage over their expense misdermeaners. Compared to the EU they were just taking someone else’s loose change.

    The above should be used against ALL Pro-EU fanatics. Ask them to explain how they can support such greed when the rest of their European citizens (sic) suffer with hardship. I suspect like so much else they will be silent on this. That is why you lost, because there is no good in staying in a system that is top-down and monumentally corrupt.

    It will go the the same way as it’s forbare, the Soviet Union.

    • Hope
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      JR, the document could be read as a vehicle to join the EU rather than leave! The Irish backstop forcing the U.K. be a vassal state forever unless a solution can be found, when there is no willingness to do so. Many choices are available and could be put forward, if the EU says no each time. Why would’nt they.

      It gives the EU a blank secretive blank cheque to draw vast amounts of taxpayers money at its choosing, at interval times of its choosing, over period of times it chooses. The paper also states a non regression clause over environment, energy, state aid, social policy etc. where the U.K. will be a rule taker from the EU without a voice or veto and therefore our laws and courts will only be able to operate under ECJ jurisprudence. The alleged parliament block a total sham. The treaty will not be changed each time a divergence is required, it is theoretical at best.

      I was aghast that none of the Tory MPs took Raab to task when he presented this tripe on last day of parliament, his lies that the paper kept faith with the referendum and vote etc. or is Raab’s memory that poor? May stated quite clearly following the Lancaster speech not half in and half out not keeping bits of the EU as that would not be leaving.

      JR, Another good easy to read article from Lawyers for Britain why the Chequers capitualtion will fail on WTO terms.

      • Hope
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:22 am | Permalink

        JR, you used the word transition. There is no transition or implementation. The punishment extension is based on worse terms than present. Also your manifesto in 2015 made it clear to stop welfare payments to EU citizens, May has now proposed to continue benefits for people not living here and yet born! Has she completely lost her senses?

        I cannot see anything in the paper that helps the U.K. achieve anything, it only allows an extension on worse terms without any indication of an agreed trade deal!

        Therefore why is the U.K. not leaving on WTO terms and agreeing a trade deal after we leave? We voted leave not remain in parts, be a vassal state, pay vast sums of taxpayers money when not legally liable. I also fail to read in either paper what the EU has given or compromised on. The lies must stop and each time a minister utters such a lie must be called out and complained against.

    • Mitchel
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

      Oligarchy is the very worst form of government-they rig the structure of the state and it’s finances to extract the most for themselves whilst putting the least in.

      Robert Michel’s “Iron Law of Oligarchy”:”any representative system necessarily divides the members of an organisation into those give orders and those who get given them,with the former tending to coalesce into a closed caste:there is no-and can be-no alternative.”

      You need to have either absolutism (the Russia-China-Singapore spectrum) or direct democracy(Switzerland).

    • Lifelogic
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:37 am | Permalink

      Indeed. But how quickly? The EU has massive support from the BBC types, academia, lawyers on the make, many of the dreadful people elevated to the Lords (by Cameron, Major, May, Blair and Brown. Plus people like The Kinnocks, Lord Patten and about half of the MPs, the Civil Service, Dominic Grieve ………

      • Richard
        Posted August 11, 2018 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

        “The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.” Winston Churchill

        Well done to our host for speaking again simply speaking the truth. Truth is a formidable lever … one able to ‘move the world’.

  2. Mick
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:17 am | Permalink

    I voted to leave the Eu in its entirety and that means not being tied to it back by some back door dealing, go against the 17.4 million and growing at your peril and see all main stream parties wiped out at the next GE and the rise of a far right party

    • Yvybybgh
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:35 am | Permalink

      Even a centre right party would be fine

      • Lifelogic
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:13 am | Permalink

        The expressions right wing and left wing are rather vague and fairly useless terms. The BBC and the left for example think the National Socialist German Workers’ Party were far right! Indeed they label anything bad as far right.

        What is needed is a real Pro Brexit partly. One that want to cut the state sector down to a sensible size, restore real democracy and accountability, cut taxes, cut energy prices and green crap, get real competition in banking, taxation, health care, education ….. and grow the wealth creating sector that actually drives jobs and the economy. One that believes in real freedom of choice. Not tax first then supply dire state monopoly services of very poor value. Also end the endless steam of damaging red tape.

        In short we want the total opposite of what Appeaser May wants and we certainly do not want Corbyn/Mc Donnall/SNP.

        • Iain Gill
          Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

          well said lifelogic

          sadly though our uni’s are training all our arts grads to think the opposite

      • Hope
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

        IDS reported in there highlighting it costs the U.K. Taxpayer £4.1 billion in tax credits, housing benefits for low paid EU immigrants and that all EU immigrants should have a job before arrival. Farage made a similar point a couple of years ago because Eastern Europeans could get more from benefits than working for a month in their own country.

        JR, why has made agreed to give away child benefit to EU children never having set foot here or yet born contrary to your manifestos? And why not any other nationality? Is this a racist policy by her? For example, how about Windrush families?

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      Theresa May will do exactly as she’s told, not by the British people, but by the EU.

    • Jagman84
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

      A ‘far-Right’ party could hold it’s annual conference in a phone box. There is simply no outward support for such an entity in the UK. It’s just a slur, perpetrated by the MSM, to demonise a movement that is quickly becoming mainstream. That is, a wish to return to being a Sovereign democratic country.

    • Richard Hobbs
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

      You have got it right Mick. Get out and get out now! John is absolutely right too, we do not want to get tied up with all this once more. I feel really strongly about this matter and don’t want my country to be shackled with this lot again. it would be different, perhaps, if the EU was a democracy which it certainly is not!

  3. Ian wragg
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Total capitulation agreement.
    Your party is dust if you sign up to this.
    May will of course sign up to it.

    • Ian wragg
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:03 am | Permalink

      The payment of EU pensions. According to figures seen elsewhere although we are one 28th of the EU for voting purposes we are expected to fund 20% of EU pensions for the next 45 years.
      I assume this document was drawn up by Oilly Robins parallel and unknown to DexEU.
      Signing this document is akin to a suicide note.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

        Indeed – anyway when you leave a club you have not duty to pay the pensions of the staff. It was the duty of the club to make such provision when they employed these staff. The pension what part of their remuneration costs.

        Anyways do these people even deserve pensions for what they did trying to destroy UK democracy and our ability to compete in this dishonest, slow, ratcheting way?

        • graham1946
          Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:48 pm | Permalink


          Surely you don’t begrudge Mandelson and the Kinnocks and Cleggy their pensions? Shame on you. These poor hard working saps straining their gut on our behalf and just ending up as millionaires. Scant reward for such Herculean effort.

      • Hope
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

        Ian, May has signed up to it and is promoting it. The details are far worse than you might think. She is also currently trying to deceive Tory associations in her letter and knows what she is writing to be untrue. Read Martin Howe’s two papers on it.

        JR, after reading Martin Howes papers do you think May has lied and is lying to the nation in her letter to Tory associations?

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:06 am | Permalink

      It’s worse than that because May is sowing the seeds of future problems when people realise democracy gets them nowhere.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

        She has been a total disaster wrong on every issue (other than opt out organ donation), dishonest, PC, left wing, full of green crap and a huge electoral and economic liability.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

          Appalling & robotic delivery too and now she is even against free speech on religious garb by Boris.

          • Chris
            Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

            It is reported that they are going to instruct him to go on a Diversity Training course………..What fools.

      • Nigel Seymour
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

        Does anyone really care about democracy pre or post the ref? I hope they do because it’s all we have. When we beetle down to cast our GE votes do we come away thinking we have made a modicum of difference to anything?

    • formula57
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:49 am | Permalink

      @ Ian wragg – Agreed.

    • Man of Kent
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

      We are simply denying ourselves any competitive advantage in the future .
      Why ?
      Because the EU cannot stand the possibility that we might do better than them .
      The tragedy is we agree!

    • getahead
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

      May is simply kowtowing to the wishes of Hammond’s CBI chums.
      As a Conservative party member, I received a letter from the Prime Minister which states,
      Dear John (me),
      “In the referendum on 23 June 2016 – the largest ever democratic exercise in the United Kingdom — the British people voted to leave the European Union. And that is what we will do.
      We will take back control of our money, laws, and borders, and begin a new exciting chapter in our nation’s history. -”
      Clearly the second sentence is a downright lie.

      • cornishstu
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

        My understanding of situation is that we will leave as stated. The con is that May then signs us back in through the back door with her deal.

  4. Nig l
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Interesting re the ECJ. I quote verbatim from a letter I received from Leo Docherty, my MP.

    ‘We will take back control of our laws ending the jurisdiction of the ECJ in the United Kingdom. U.K. courts will no longer be able to appeal to the ECJ and the U.K Supreme Court will be the highest authirity in the land.’

    So who is correct?

    • Beecee
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:43 am | Permalink

      He is being economical with the truth and he knows it – but he is doing what he has been told by No. 10

      • Hope
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        Read Lawyers for Britain briefing document number one. Martin Howe QC explains in a perfectly easy to read style that the phrase copied by your MP from May’s letter to him is utter garbage.

      • Nig l
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:28 am | Permalink

        Indeed and as a newbie coming from a military background representing an army constituency with a big majority he will be sniffing around a ministerial post, similar to his predecessor.

        Gerald now Sir Gerald Howarth, responded similarly back in the day, because he liked his job. Now he has left parliament he is a fervent leaver.

        Sums it up!

  5. Peter Wood
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:38 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,
    Dr. Redwood,
    As you describe it, it is clearly unacceptable. However, the May government needs to be prevented from signing it, as they currently appear to intend.
    Is it correct that a ‘Withdrawal Agreement and Implementation Bill’ (Withdrawal Agreement Bill), is required to be passed to bring it into effect? IF that is so, I think the government will not have sufficient support.

    We have seen how duplicitous the May government can be, so vigilance on the part of Brexiteers, particularly the ERG must be maintained.

    Better yet, remove from power the main proponent of this nationally damaging document.

    Reply It is clear that there is no Conservative majority in Parliament for such a measure

    • Prigger
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:22 am | Permalink

      @Peter Wood
      “Reply It is clear that there is no Conservative majority in Parliament for such a measure”

      How terrible it is only…. a majority …of Conservatives in Parliament! Given we are definitely leaving, what manner of MP would vote for it…any Party?

      • bigneil
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

        ” Definitely leaving ” ?- – That woman is still after her reward seat in Brussels for our destruction. She doesn’t give a damn about this country or it’s real people.

      • Hope
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

        If there is no majority to get rid of May your party is toast.

      • matthu
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

        It is hard to find anyone anymore who can state with any confidence what common distinguishing characteristic might enable you to recognise a Conservative politician as opposed to any other politician.

        Higher taxes?
        Environmental policy?
        Social policy?
        Freedom of speech?
        Single Market?
        Student fees?

        Politicians are also out of step with most of the electorate as well.

    • Mike wilson
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:04 am | Permalink

      Reply It is clear that there is no Conservative majority in Parliament for such a measure

      But there is a majority across all parties. Add Labour Remainers to Tory Remainers and the Scottish Nationalists and the Lib Dems and the Green – and you have your majority.

      • L Jones
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

        It is outrageous that ANY MP would describe him/herself as ”Remain”.
        They should ALL should be working to implement the express will of the people, not allowing themselves to be labelled ”Remainer” because of their own personal proclivities.

      • stred
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

        She has been collaborating and bunging English taxes to the SNP in order to sell us out. Honest Conservative MPs must make it known that they will resign and form a breakaway party, only supporting the government if it keeps to manifesto promises. May only cares about staying in no 10 and cannot do so if she has lost her mandate and majority. Working with the SNP and Labour would be somewhat embarrassing for her at the party conference. It would make last years conference speech look successful. Do the clowns in your central office realise this?

      • Lifelogic
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:52 am | Permalink

        The one green indeed. One who seems to have about as much understanding of energy production, engineering and science as I have of speaking and writing in Mandarin.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:35 am | Permalink

      Reply to Reply: But can the Government sign this “dogs dinner” without Parliamentary approval?

      Reply It will need legislation

      • Chris
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

        Reply to reply: as the majority of MPs are apparently not willing to uphold democracy and effect Brexit i.e. they are Remainers, then I can see the dog’s dinner getting approval.

    • Yvybybgh
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:36 am | Permalink

      But what if Labour support it?

    • Peter
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      Peter Wood you make good points.

      I am not entirely reassured by the reply. Could the bill get through with the support of other parties? Or those who simply wish to thwart Brexit?

      • Mockbeggar
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:04 am | Permalink

        The Labour leader is so keen to become PM that he will vote against any legislation introduced by the Govt.

      • Peter Wood
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

        Yes I think our host could have been a bit more forthcoming. My feeling is that if it came to a vote in the House, and the opposition could see a defeat of the government in the offing, regardless of personal preference they’d vote to defeat the government, thereby causing a confidence vote. It’s a thin straw to hold on to.

        Better to have the present administration removed on grounds of loss of support form the conservative electorate now, then get a Brexit team in to get the job done.

        • Peter
          Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

          It is difficult to predict the arithmetic.

          Maybe thwarting Brexit would take precedence over voting against the government?

          I would not mind who removes the present administration – provided it did not further delay Brexit. A general election would give us all a chance to scrutinise the candidates promises/record on Brexit. They could always lie I suppose, but you would hope that they would not all do so.

    • Christine
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      People need to be bombarding their MPs with letters now telling them this option isn’t acceptable. We need to keep up the pressure on our representatives. Only public opinion will get us the Brexit we voted for. Also May has to go before she can inflict more damage. I expect that by the Autumn she will be saying that time has run out but a deal is very close so Article 50 should be extended. Don’t believe a word she says.

    • Butties
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

      “Reply It is clear that there is no Conservative majority in Parliament for such a measure”
      But a large tranch of Conservative May supporters coupled with Kier Stramers and his chums with SNP backing could get this through with some margin to spare. Only the removal of you know who can prevent this?

  6. eeyore
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    Thank you Mr Redwood for doing what you can. Your frustration over this business must be immense; your optimism is undaunted; your patience with folly and duplicity is an example to all.

    A Conservative MP of my acquaintance (a Leaver at the referendum) tells me that of his/her 70,000-odd constituents only 35 have written in on the subject of Brexit. He/she draws the lesson that voters don’t care and is quietly determined to support government in whatever deal it proposes.

    This is what our champions such as JR are up against. That they have done so well so far is truly remarkable. Even now a good Brexit is possible, thanks to them. I wish there were some national crowd-funded Brexit organisation to give them visible and audible backing; even now it’s not too late to set one up.

    • Yorkie
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:14 am | Permalink

      “his/her 70,000-odd constituents only 35 have written in on the subject of Brexit. ”
      I don’t write my MP either. But I have strong views. Most people do not write to their MP in the full span of their years.

      It appears your MP is as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

      • Samsez
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:51 am | Permalink

        More—Seen the MP with senior MPs cross Party on tv who have thought he/her as … I suppose worthy. They have no idea, really

      • formula57
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:17 am | Permalink

        My M.P. (a Conservative) has now been provided not only with a copy of Mr. Redwood’s diary for today but my supporting thoughts too. He can thus be in no doubt where his duty lies.

      • Hope
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:29 am | Permalink

        The MP must be a dullard. It might occur to her/him that the distrust in politicians has got worse since 2009 from the corrupt scandals and that they have done nothing to change the system.

        This coupled with May’s national betrayal has led other countries to turn to other extreme parties. May is creating a violent storm of public opinion against parliament by her underhand untrustworthy behaviour.

        • getahead
          Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

          It would be hard to find a party more extreme than the current Tory nasty party. They hate everything, but they hate especially those who voted to leave the EU.

      • Jagman84
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

        Indeed. This lack of correspondence is probably due to a misplaced trust in the Government to carry out the wishes of the electorate. As the ultimate responsibility is with the PM, if he or she is unable, or unwilling, to enact the legislation for us to exit, the incumbent must resign in favour of one who will.

    • Al
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      I would question how many letters he usually receives and what proportion of them that 35 are. If these are people who usually don’t write, then he should consider how strongly they feel about it to pick up a pen.

      I haven’t spent a stamp telling my MP my views on Leave (he’s such a strong Remainer, it would be a waste of time) but I will never vote for him again.

      • L Jones
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        Again – one of these MPs that openly wears the label of ”remainer”. How dare they?

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      She won’t be in the job for much longer.

    • old salt
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

      eeyore –
      I guess it’s about time we all wrote to and deluged our MP’s to let them know how we all feel in no uncertain terms outlining all the ongoing disadvantageous issues stated in the Withdrawal Agreement before it’s too late. They need to be persuaded and convinced of the threat of their future, and that of the country, needs to be greater than the so called dark forces.

      It should be remembered around two thirds of constituencies voted to leave.

      As one leading MP said “I didn’t vote to be half in half out” That wasn’t on the ballot paper.

      There needs to be seen ongoing overwhelming public support for what 17.4 million voted for i.e. taking back complete control, with tariff free trade and services etc., or trading under WTO rules.

      The nonsense of the so called crashing out without a deal, falling off a cliff etc. much talked up by all the Remainers and media needs countering at every opportunity if that is at all possible. This disingenuous talk is doing enormous damage to our economy and standing in the world with all the uncertainty not to mention, particularly since mid-April this year, the pound.

      The present system under the, some say, duplicitous Mrs May has to change if we are to Leave. She has lost all credibility as she cannot be believed or trusted. The one thing she, and her kind, is capable of is to potentially destroy democracy. Just what would be the point of voting?

      I can but dream.

    • robert lewy
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

      What is needed is not another referendum as such but a plebiscite in constituencies where the MP intends to vote in a way contrary to the expressed views of his/her constituency.

      The onus should be on the MP to justify his/her departure from his constituents’ instructions which are clear and unconditional.

      Where an MP has voted and intends to vote as his constituents wish there is no need for the MP to obtain “permission” for his/her voting stance.

    • old salt
      Posted August 11, 2018 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

      eeyore –
      I guess it’s about time we all wrote to and deluged our MP’s to let them know how we all feel in no uncertain terms outlining all the ongoing disadvantageous issues stated in the Withdrawal Agreement before it’s too late. They need to be persuaded and convinced of the threat of their future, and that of the country, needs to be greater than the so called dark forces.

      It should be remembered around two thirds of constituencies voted to leave.

      As one leading MP said “I didn’t vote to be half in half out” That wasn’t on the ballot paper.

      There needs to be seen ongoing overwhelming public support for what 17.4 million voted for i.e. taking back complete control, with tariff free trade and services etc., or trading under WTO rules.

      The nonsense of the so called crashing out without a deal, falling off a cliff etc. much talked up by all the Remainers and media needs countering at every opportunity if that is at all possible. This disingenuous talk is doing enormous damage to our economy and standing in the world with all the uncertainty not to mention, particularly since mid-April this year, the pound.

  7. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:55 am | Permalink

    So, are you going to vote it down in Parliament?

    • Ian wragg
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:11 am | Permalink

      As it is a draft agreement I doubt there will be a vote.
      It will be subjected to some minor negotiations and May will tell us what a good deal she has got.
      Today we read that the EU is willing to agree to free trade in goods etc as long as we agree to follow EU social, environmental and welfare policy.
      Together with the withdrawal agreement is it pretty much keeps us 90% in the EU.

    Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:58 am | Permalink

    Democracy circumvented by an unprincipled and disingenuous political class determined to crush any opposition to the UK’s direction of travel

    May’s election as our party’s leader was a sure sign of things to come. Tory MPs deciding to parachute in another Europhile for a departing Europhile was a huge warning flag for Brexit supporters

    Not only is May a liberal left adherent in that she’ll readily sideline morality and freedom for political convenience but she’s also grossly offensive in her shameless mendacity.

    I could never vote Tory again simply because they have betrayed democracy and the British people.

    I would not have complained if a majority of the British people had voted to remain in the EU. I would not have protested against such a decision because I have a firm belief in the sanctity of democracy. Unfortunately our two main parties do not share the same commitment

    We are in dangerous territory. A political class is accumulating power and destroying our freedoms, abusing our democracy and legislating in a punitive manner. I can see it with each day passing. Age does that. Age provides an historical perspective to which the young do not have access.

    Every Tory MP who voted for May as our leader is responsible for this betrayal. They will have to answer to the electorate for their actions

    • graham1946
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

      Most areas could put up a donkey (and many do) with a blue rosette and that is enough. It is only the marginals that need to be hoodwinked.

      I don’t know why you are surprised at the EU sell out. The Tories are the party of the EU. Heath lied to get us in, they invented the Single Market, railroaded Maastricht, took us into the ERM and now they don’t want their beloved EU project abandoned – no surprise there.

      They don’t care about what the voters think, never have other than inventing a pack of lies called a manifesto at election time which is to be jettisoned as soon as office is reached. The 2015 is just the most blatant example, there for all to see, yet their ‘Honourable’ MP’s who all got voted in on it are quite happy to see it done.

      • graham1946
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:16 am | Permalink

        Typo 2017 manifesto.

    • margaret howard
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink

      “I have a firm belief in the sanctity of democracy”

      So do I. Pity that after centuries we still haven’t got any.

      We don’t even get to vote for a PM just a placement put there by either the unions or the establishment. The non elected bureaucrats remain in place whoever wins the election which makes a mockery of so called democracy.

      Add an unelected head of state and hangers on family, unelected house of lords and a land owning class that is still feudal and you have a system not fit for purpose.

    • Barbara
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

      Duncan , sadly you are correct . I too will be leaving the party if May insists on pushing through this monstrous capitulation.

  9. Lifelogic
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    Exactly is it far worse than no deal and should certainly never ever be signed. Worse even than Major’s idiotic Maastricht deal. I trust the sensible wing of the Tories will prevent the appalling Theresa May from signing. They must remove her as soon as possible. If we retain May we risk Corbyn and Venezuela. A sensible pro Brexit leader with intelligence and vision is the way to do. May is a dim, socialist robot with a broken compass.

    Meanwhile what is being done about the appalling UK banks? I have a largish chunk of cash currently to deposit short term with the bank (before I buy an investment property) but was offered just 0.2% PA from the main bank that charges about 68% in daily overdraft fees for overdrafts! Where is some real competition in banking they are just taking the piss out of customers. Plus they charge large fees and make it difficult to move large chunks of money about on the same day with small daily on line transfer limits.

    Where is the competition authority and the bank of England here? The lack of competition in banking does huge harm to investment and the ability for UK businesses to compete. Also they are hugely slow, over bureaucratic and inefficient. Even just opening an account is hard and very slow now!

    • stred
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      Nine years ago, I sold a flat here and decided to buy a property in France with my bird, who came to live here from the continent 30 years ago. I converted the proceeds to Euros and opened an account in France and then in the IOM after the French bank kicked me out. I then found that French inheritance law would apply, as our government had opted out of EU legislation to avoid this. This meant that I could not proceed . The amount has fluctuated and is now at the rate when I opened the account.

      My bird has worked very hard in her highly qualified job and saved for a deposit on a French property and obtained a very cheap French mortgage for 50% of the purchase. I suggested the best way to get Euros at zero cost would be for her to buy mine at the nominal exchange rate. We both have £ accounts at the same English bank and the money laundering restrictions would be overcome. She applied for a Euro account at the same British bank as mine. She has no debts and does not even have a credit card.

      After taking details of her job, high earnings, debts or lack of them and personal details she told them that she had opened an account with a French bank and was told that, in that case, they would not be interested in offering an account. I phoned and asked why, as I have had a French account for 30 years, and was told that this was wrong, as everyone has local accounts. They refused to say why she had been refused.

      Now she is being forced to buy Euros at a rate about 10% lower than the nominal rate and I will have to close my account at a poor rate too. Perhaps her credit rating was poor because she has never had a credit card and stayed in the blue.

  10. Eh?
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    The EU has not compromised or conceded on anything at all!
    Mrs May’s willingness to compromise is assuredly there. But it’s all one way.
    The EU does not wish a deal, let’s face it. They know, what amounts to demands on us are unacceptable.

    The EU is playing the long game. It can have no other.
    Stepping briefly into EU shoes, I would be looking polite, push the UK into a position where it is to be hoped the Electorate would accept anything through sheer tiredness and fear for the future. Remoaner MPs like friends who abuse us, who bully us if they can.

    • Dr GP
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

      So what should the UK do?

      Very simply play a game of tit-for-tat.

      If the EU imposes barriers on the banking sector, the UK says, fine. It just then, on the quite, implements banking secrecy and tax haven status for EU nationals.

      If the EU puts tariffs on X, then the UK looks at who voted for the tariffs, lets say Germany, and imposes 500% tariffs – like Singapore, on VW. It also says that it will fine VW 10% of world wide turnover for Deiselgate. [As it stands the EU got the fine, no the UK]. This is after taking out put options on VW with Deutsche bank. And put options on DB with BLB … You get the idea.

      Or Airbus says its moving its production to the EU. That means we’ve lost the jobs. So say to Airbus, we think you should double your investment in the UK. If they say no, so OK. we will help you export the jobs. Here’s an export ban on the wings, with immediate effect. Take on put options on Airbus with DB, and calls on Boeing with them too.

      You get the picture. Action reaction.

      Or Ireland. It puts in place barriers at the border. So the UK cuts the internet cables. All but a very small one comes through the UK. Now what? All its data centers are useless.

      Action causes a reaction.

      The biggy of course is to implement that EU law on no recourse to public funds.

      A min wage earner would have to pay 12K a year in tax to have no recourse to public funds. So lots of low paid EU migrants leave, the UK is better off. Start with any on welfare. Pull the welfare.

    • Andy
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

      Why should the EU compromise – just because the angry Tory pensioners are in a pickle?

      The EU is a rules based club. 28 – soon to be 27 – independent countries working within the same rules based structure to the ultimate economic benefit of all.

      You’ve decided you don’t like the rules – which is up to you. But stop bitching at the EU because it won’t accommodate you.

      Seriously, you Brexiteers are behaving like petulant toddlers. It was all so much better when the grown ups were in charge.

      • Richard1
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

        Agreed. The EU shouldn’t compromise it would undermine its central mission which is political union. Likewise the U.K. should just now just leave and trade on WTO terms. Maybe in future there will be a simple FTA with no political baggage, maybe not. (BTW the EU does of course ignore or bend the rules of its rules based system when it suits, such as ignoring deficits when incurred by core countries, bailouts for insolvent Eurozone countries etc).

      • Barbara
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

        I certainly dont want them to compromise , I want us to leave and leave properly with no remaining umbilical chord attached for the continuous sustenance of this parasitic entity. Full Brexit please and stuff the EU and its compromises.

      • Know-Dice
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

        Er no Andy, most of those that voted Leave are saying just get on with it and leave on WTO terms.

        It’s those that voted Remain that are muddying the waters.

      • Edward2
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

        As usual your analysis is wrong Andy.
        We voted to leave.
        Most predictions were that the EU would not do any kind of deal.
        Therefore just leaving was and still is the only option.
        Trying to stay half in half out is the most foolishbpolicy.
        It annoys all you hard left young remainers and everyone on the leave side.

      • L Jones
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

        ”Angry Tory pensioners”. Oh dear, Andy. You really must think up some other insult – that one’s beginning to wear a bit thin, especially when you can have no doubt now that you are speaking to many of us who are possibly younger than you – and a darn sight better educated, I’d guess.

        • Mitchel
          Posted August 11, 2018 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

          Everyone needs a good catch-phrase!

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

      Wrong as usual. I voted for a clean and immediate break.

      The ballot paper was clear on this too but you keep lying about it and putting words in our mouth and here you are doing it again.

  11. Annette
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Given that the Notification of Withdrawal Act & The EU Withdrawal Act are now law & just waiting enactment & restoring our independence, this so-called agreement – signing away (again) the rights of an independent country to a foreign power is a clear Act of treason. She needs to (metaphorically speaking, of course) have her fingers broken to prevent her signing anything. Don’t we have an existing law that prevents the Govt from giving away what is not theirs to do so?
    The continued betrayal of the people & this country is shown to be SO deep, that I would not trust ANY agreement that they now make. Clean exit, no tendrils of control left, WTO rules. The EU had plenty of chances to be sensible & didn’t. Walk away or the cancer that is the EU will return.

    • Trojan
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      Absolute NONSENSE!
      Why should we be bound by WTO rules? I voted for freedom, I did not vote to be controlled by the EU, and I do not want to be controlled by the WTO either. When did I ever get a vote on the WTO? I am sick of people saying “leave the EU, obey the WTO”. No! We are NOT a free country if we obey the WTO.

      • Richard1
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

        We are signatories of the WTO (fortunately). As we are of NATO, the WHO, etc

      • Edward2
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

        Hilarious comment Trojan showing you understand nothing about how the WTO works.

  12. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    These conditions will make our position in the EU worse than they are now. It is unacceptable and I trust you and others will vote this down. What was the point of this totally meaningless referendum? The Conservative government have not kept their word. We remember clearly what Cameron and then May told us. Out would mean out and this is effectively staying in without control. That’s another thing that was repeated time after time – take back control. This lot couldn’t take control of a hampster! The world must see now that we are not democratic and that our ministers have surely lost the plot.

    • graham1946
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      The ‘meaningless referendum’ was merely a device to try to heal the splits in the Tory Party over the EU which had been festering for 40 odd years. Cameron was clueless how to do it (so were his predecessors) and passed it to the people, thinking he could get a Remain vote which Leavers would accept. Unfortunately his scheme blew up in his face and not having the bottle to face the consequences ran for the hills, leaving not just the Tories, but the whole country split in a way I have never witnessed in my life. I just hope that in the end, the Remainers will accept the result and we can pull together. If May’s sell out goes ahead, the splits will be even more bitter and could be the end of the Tory Party.

  13. Time now
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    Labour , LibDem, SNP and some Tory Remoaners will vote to accept this nonsense.
    What then?
    The Opposition MPs will push us into a General Election that even many of them do not wish.
    It will finish the SNP who continue to disappoint on domestic issues.
    Some Labour marginals will be under severe threat from just about any other party
    Some Tory MPs should start looking externally for a new job.

    Mrs May certainly will have to go before any such Election, better her Chancellor too!

  14. agricola
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    In June 2016 we voted to become a sovereign state once more. This means that the EU has no say in any form as to the way we run the UK. The running of the UK is a matter for the electorate and their representatives in Parliament, end of story. Anyone signing up to an agreement such as you describe should come before our courts on a charge of treason. Our relationship with the EU after March 2019 should only be subject to international law. The only item that concerns me is a decision by the EU as to whether it wishes a treaty on tariff free trade and services or a future trading arrangement under WTO rules.

    • old salt
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:09 am | Permalink

      agricola – I wholeheartedly agree, well said.

  15. Samantha
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    You told us the UK would hold all the cards. That has turned out to be untrue. Meanwhile investors are quitting the UK for fear of a no deal scenario. You fail to understand, Mr Redwood, tbat the UK is powerless on its own. Brexit is a fraud

    Reply We need to play the cards! Lets just leave

    • Al
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      I think the problem is less a lack of power than a lack of leadership. We had several countries offer to start negotiating trade agreements the week after Brexit, yet it seems the Civil Service and our leaders have failed to complete or possibly even start the negotiations for provisional agreements to come into force after Brexit.

      If I ran a business like this, without making contingencies, I’d be bankrupt!

    • L Jones
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      Yes! Let’s just leave!

      If you’ll only show us the way, Dr R, then there are many many of us who will follow you!

    • getahead
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

      Samantha we hold all the cards. The problem is that Theresa May is playing to lose.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

      “Meanwhile investors are quitting the UK for fear of a no deal scenario.”

      Are they? Can you produce any evidence to support that bold assertion?

      I said here ten days ago:

      that I thought UK economic growth might overtake that of the eurozone next year, but apparently I was a bit wrong on that because today:

      “It is official. Britain’s defeated, pauperized, and imploding economy somehow eked out faster growth in the second quarter than the mighty and ascendant eurozone. This was not supposed to happen.”

      You EU loyalists have no respect for the truth, you just make up whatever lies may suit your convenience and hope to prove them by repetition.

      • acorn
        Posted August 11, 2018 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

        Denis, the Eurozone (EZ) has been running over twice the growth rate of the UK for the previous six quarters. And that’s with a budget deficit a third the size of the UK’s, (much harsher EZ austerity under its idiotic Excessive Deficit Procedure EDP). Meanwhile, in Trump land:

        “The federal government recorded a $76.9 billion deficit in July, with increased government spending and tax cuts keeping the country on track to record its biggest annual deficit in six years. The Treasury Department reports that in the first 10 months of this budget year, the deficit totalled $684 billion, up 20.8 percent from the same period last year.

        Revenues are up only 1 percent this year with the increase held back by a big drop in corporate tax payments. (Corporation Tax dropped from 35 to 21%. I won’t mention the Laffer Curve.)

        Spending is up 4.4 percent, reflecting a big boost Congress approved earlier this year for domestic and military programs and rising costs to finance the debt.”

        That’s how you get 4% plus GDP boost. It won’t cost the US Treasury a penny; if, it doesn’t issue savings bonds paying interest, to match its spending.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted August 12, 2018 at 10:57 am | Permalink

          “… the Eurozone (EZ) has been running over twice the growth rate of the UK for the previous six quarters”, and now that is changing.

  16. margaret
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:00 am | Permalink


  17. Andy
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    The withdrawal agreement is Brexit. This is what Brexit looks like. It is what Brexit will look like whether Theresa May is negotiating it, or Jacob Rees-Mogg is negotiating it, or if Boris Johnson takes time out from insulting Muslim women to negotiate it.

    It is ironic that you, a Brexiteer, turn out not to like Brexit very much. Perhaps you would like a final vote on the deal?

    Reply No to both. I just want us to leave next March with no such deal

    • Student
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      He didn’t insult ‘muslim women’, a man of any religion can choose to wear a burqa in this country. Strangely enough they don’t. Perhaps for the descriptions outlined in BJ’s article?

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      “It is what Brexit will look like whether Theresa May is negotiating it, or Jacob Rees-Mogg is negotiating it, or if Boris Johnson takes time out from insulting Muslim women to negotiate it.”


      • Anonymous
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

        It turns out that HIGNFY (BBC), Polly Toynbee and The Guardian made very similar comments about the burqa – except when they do it it’s a joke.

        When a Leaver does it it’s a five day news story. (See Guido for details.)

    • Prigger
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:32 am | Permalink

      For the Bless-ed Great Oak’s sake, I and many other Brexiteers work with and are friends with muslims….many of whom are Brexiteers for they are patriotic and British .
      Do follow their example. Be good, be right. Leave the EU!In your particular case. ..try to be democratic . Also believe in the free-speech for everyone which you exercise here regularly and obviously with the help of your chosen enemy a major Brexiteer.
      Oh and they love Boris

    • Andy
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:37 am | Permalink

      In other words, you are prepared to allow your fruitless pursuit of the golden Brexit unicorn to impoverish many of those you are supposed to serve.

      Political ideology being put before the economic well-being of your constituents – the majority of whom backed Remain.

      Perhaps not a great strategy if you want to keep your job?

      • Anonymous
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

        Insults insults insults.

        It’s all you do, isn’t it Andy.

        Can you not see ? Dr Redwood does not moderate you because you are so useful to our cause.

        Hold on. Are you a Leave voter in disguise putting all this on ?

        Aaaaaagh ! You had me going – YOU WIND UP MERCHANT !

        LEGEND ! *fist bump*

      • Edward2
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

        Growth higher than predicated and higher than the eurozone again.

    • libertarian
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:53 am | Permalink

      Dear Andy

      VW Cars have written to EU saying they will be unable to meet the new emissions targets

      More than 1,000 US news and info sites have now blocked EU access due to GDPR and the EU is about to consign the entire EU to a digital backwater after Article 13

      German industry is suffering already from potential losses of business and is heavily lobbying Merkel

      Oh and the Mayor of Calais is up in arms that the EU has decided to reroute freight traffic from Ireland away from his port and direct to Antwerp and Zeebrugge

      If we ever had politicians in this country with bottle we would be on WTO rules and out of this collapsing bureaucratic nightmare already

      Meanwhile the ignorant remainers keep on bleating , yet never manage to tell us any advantage of belonging to this outdated politburo that we can’t achieve outside it

      • libertarian
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:56 am | Permalink

        Oh and also

        GDP growth rates for this year’s second quarter are in, and despite uncertainty, Brexit Britain bowling along with impressive and better than expected 0.4% growth, double the rate of the first quarter, despite the noticeable ramp up in continuity project fear’s dire no-deal warnings. Meanwhile the Eurozone grew on average by 0.3%, and France by just 0.2%

        When are you moving to France Andy ?

        • hans christian ivers
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 10:04 am | Permalink

          Britain still has the slowest growth in the G7 for the past 18 months

      • Richard1
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        MIFID II appears to be a dog’s dinner also based on early indications.

      • Barbara
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

        thank you for your good sense, I sometimes despair at the remoaners remarks.

  18. Caterpillar
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    W.r.t. second sentence: it should not be signed even if there is a good FPA, the democratic referendum vote was to leave – third sentence spot on.

    In the UK democracy, free speech and rationality are all currently under viscous attack, this is an absurd situation.

    • agricola
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

      Absolutely correct, and it is the liberal elite both elected and as the civil service who lead the charge on democracy, freedom of speech and rational logic. Democracy because they disdain that the electorate should express an opinion. Freedom of speech because if accepted in the present political climate is seen as a threat to their own political careers. Rationality is trashed when it contradicts the way the collective liberal elite think. It is the religion by which the ruling class live and a heresy to question in any meaningful way. If you do the sentence is excommunication as is the attempt with Boris.

  19. Alan Jutson
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    I am absolutely dismayed at the weak and pathetic performance of our Government, not just at the moment on Brexit, but on so many other fronts as well.

    You do not need to sign a legal agreement to leave anything, you may sign a legal agreement to join something, but only when you are completely satisfied with what you are joining, and only after reading the small print.

    Yet more betrayal coming down the line it would seem.
    Thanks for your efforts so far JR, you and some of your like-minded colleagues I know are working hard, and trying your best to inject some common sense and simple honesty into these proceedings, I can only ask you to try and continue with whatever influence you all have, to strengthen your efforts.

  20. Alan Jutson
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    May and her advisors and supporters will eventually bury the Conservative Party, if she is not stopped very soon, and before she does even more damage.
    It would appear Mrs May cannot see a future without binding us in some way to the EU, and is utterly blind to the opportunities which await elsewhere.

    Does she not understand that we will still be able to trade with all Countries within the EU even when we fully leave that organisation.

    Have recent EU trade arrangements with Canada and Japan not taught her anything.

  21. Adam
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Theresa May worked hard on her Withdrawal Agreement, clumsily turning it into her Withdrawal from Office document. We British shall not destroy our freedom with such a dangerous instrument. We shall cause her removal from office & destroy her crass document instead.

    Accept only a PM who is capable of fulfilling our needs, who may well have a worthy Withdrawal Plan written & rationalised in readiness right now.

  22. A.Sedgwick
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Each week that goes by I think the Conservative Party as currently run could not get worse but very sadly it does.

  23. Rien Huizer
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,

    Your complaints are unfounded. You can sign this if you want to agree with the EU about the matters covered or decide to have no withdrawal agreement al all and face the consequences. I guess that the UK negotiators did not agree to the draft being submitted to further political processing in the UK in order to harm the UK or, worse, enrich themselves or their friends. I cannot imagine top level career civil servants being treacherous (like some officials supporing Moseley and his deplorables in the 1930s).

    The problem is that the only leverage the UK has over the EU in negotiations is (a) a relatively small sum (some 50 billion EUR) compared to the size of the economies involved and (b) sector interests in a few countries that may actually be more robust than traditional trade economics suggests. The sum is too small for the EU to change its rules (possibly requiring treaty change, a non-starter) and the sectoral interets can be accommodated as is happening to farmers hurt by the lack of rain. One cvan be sure that the losers on the EU side will be compensated. If the UK has the capacity (or more importantly, the political will) to compensate its losers remains to be seen. My gues is those civil servants that you and friends are vilifying (some people use words like treason as if this is a warlike conflict) have done their best. Politicians should not adopt this cowardly bullying of the people that have to implement political decisions, whether implementation is practicable or not.

  24. William Long
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    I wish I thought that the Government were disposed to take your advice! Mrs May has written to all members of the Conservative party in an attempt to justify the Chequers proposal. I would urge all followers of this Blog who are members to reply to the letter setting out their views. She should be left in no doubt of the error she has made.

  25. BOF
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    I have heard it explained by Mr Rees-Mogg as well and it is an appalling document. The very worst deal possible. The sheer scale of this betrayal defies the imagination.

    I have said it before. Mrs May cannot be allowed to get away with signing off on this treachery. I fully realise that it will cause huge disruption in Parliament, but that will be nothing compared to the anger of the people of this country.

    • mancunius
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

      I hope it will cause disruption in Parliament. My fear is that it will not, as it reflects the remainer views of the majority of MPs and Peers who have been suborned by the EU, and care not a whit for the democratic referendum vote of the people.

  26. acorn
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Just a thought. Who would protect the citizens of the Kingdom from the rise of a right-wing nationalist government? For instance; how would the citizens stop this present government from changing a five year fixed term parliament into a twenty five or more year parliament. We know the UK parliament is dominated by a presidential style, Downing Street dictatorship, not so much different to some totalitarian states.

    Taking back control is a fine; but, I am not sure exactly who we are giving control to!

    • acorn
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

      The thing that tells me everything I need to know about JR’s and the Mogglodytes Brexit position on the political compass, is which of my comments never get passed moderation. Even next door’s new dog knows that Brexit has to be stopped.

      If you are a state pensioner and/or receiving other cash or non-cash benefits from the state; Brexit, as orchestrated by this laissez-faire, neo-liberal Conservative Party government, is the very last thing you want.

    • Edward2
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

      Who will protect the UK citizens from the rise of a hard left Marxist government?)

      • Edward2
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

        If only we had a laissez faire neo liberal conservative government acorn
        The last decade has seen a large increase in laws regulations directives extra taxes extra licencing requirements and greater power of the State
        And the increase in the power over the markets of big business.

        • acorn
          Posted August 11, 2018 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

          Are you saying that you object to sovereign states having regulatory powers over transnational corporations? Do you want a United “Corporation” of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? The Brexit “Ultras” do.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 11, 2018 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

            Red herring from you acorn
            You say we have and have had a neo liberal laissez faire government.
            I am telling you this is ridiculous nonsense.

          • acorn
            Posted August 12, 2018 at 8:02 am | Permalink

            However, while this crisis does not imply the end of market-economy capitalism, it has shown the failure of a particular model of capitalism. Namely, the laissez-faire, unregulated (or aggressively deregulated), Wild West model of free market capitalism with lack of prudential regulation, supervision of financial markets and proper provision of public goods by governments. Laissez-Faire Capitalism Has Failed By Nouriel Roubini

          • Edward2
            Posted August 13, 2018 at 3:03 am | Permalink

            Total nonsense
            There has been no such period of politics.
            Quite the opposite has been happening.
            Increased laws increased regulations increased directives and increased need for complex licensing.
            Nuriel sets up a false scenario and then attacks it as if has failed.

    • mancunius
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

      You are giving control to Corbyn, McDonnell, and Momentum. Does that prospect suit you better?

    • BrexiteerwivMusket
      Posted August 11, 2018 at 12:21 am | Permalink

      ” Who would protect the citizens of the Kingdom from the rise of a right-wing nationalist government?” A foreigner

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted August 11, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

      Notionally that is one of the tasks reserved to the House of Lords, which retains the power to veto – not just delay – any Bill to prolong the life of Parliament beyond five years. General elections were postponed during both world wars, with the consent of both Houses. Whether or not the Lords as presently composed would perform that constitutional duty is another matter.

  27. Michael
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Much of this is news to me. The proposed terms of the Withdrawal Agreement need to be widely publicised. Most people are not aware that it is so unappealing. The Government is portraying progress so far as a triumph against all the odds. But holw could any right thinking MP who hopes for relection vote in favour?

  28. JoolsB
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    John, I think most of us have had enough of this now. May WILL NOT deliver what is right for all those people who voted leave and the only thing therefore is to remove her from office. Please can you and all those other pro Brexit MPs get on with it please?

  29. Andy
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Incidentally – for those advocating WTO rules I have three questions:

    1) Who voted for the WTO?
    2) What specific mandate do they have from the UK ?
    3) How do we get rid of them?

    All objections you lot have to the EU. I wonder why you don’t have them towards the unelected trade bureaucrats in Geneva?

    • Richard1
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

      Good questions & the answer is the WTO is rather like NATO. A specific agreement to cover a specific policy area. (Also, the U.K. can if it wants violate obligations of the WTO, NATO etc if Parliament chooses,albeit with reputational and perhaps legal consequences). The EU is quite different. It’s scope is unlimited – whatever field of policy the EU institutions decide comes under the single market becomes an EU competence. EU law then reigns supreme. ministers are obliged to impose relevant laws and rules to comply. They potentially commit a criminal offence if they don’t. Parliament is advised it can’t make any changes (the Henry VIII powers are invoked for this).

      Isn’t it a pity the EU isn’t just a simple free trade agreement with other ad hoc cooperation arrangements, as it more or less was until the Maastricht treaty? But no, it’s quite clear for the direction of travel, the 5 presidents report etc, that the EU is on a “wild ride to political union” (to quote our distinguished host).

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

      The WTO does not presume to stipulate our laws nor our immigration policy.

    • Edward2
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

      It is just a way of trading.
      You sign up if you like it
      Or you agree between your two countries another way.

    • mancunius
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

      It has quite a few points of difference with the EU:
      1) It is fair
      2) It is efficiently well-run
      3) It works
      4) Its principals are neither perpetually drunk, nor aggressive, nor mendacious

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted August 11, 2018 at 7:09 am | Permalink

      The EU claims to be, and is, “sui generis”.

      If you don’t know what that means, look it up.

  30. KeithL
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    Why do we need to sign a withdrawal agreement? we don’t need a a future partnership agreement either? A50 sould be good enough for them

    We did not vote for a future partnership agreement with them and should just leave as per A50 and the wishes of the people.

    The reason we are on the backfoot in all of this is because we are looking for a new agreement going forward, if we just walk away on 29 March then we will be afterwards free to make new deals under our own terms. and without the ECJ

  31. Tad Davison
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    I see the signing of any such agreement by the Prime Minister as a resigning issue – HERS! Along with her remainer lackeys in the civil service. And good riddance!

    She manoeuvred for this lop-sided deal, whilst looking us all in the face saying she would deliver on Brexit and give us the deal we voted for. If this doesn’t show how underhanded, untrustworthy, and duplicitous remainers are, nothing ever will, and Theresa May is showing where her own loyalties really lie.

    How much longer will otherwise honest decent and honourable Tory leave MPs put up with this deliberate subterfuge before they ditch this no-hoper who the country have turned against in their millions?

    Surely they only have to listen to any radio station to appreciate she is despised and unwanted.

    Tad Davison


  32. Jonp
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Problem is nobody is considerinģ the peoples wishes in all of seems the place of big business and vested interests is being looked after first- like it doesn’t matter what we say to government because it makes not one bit of difference – if this carries on it it will be the end of democracy in this land

    • graham1946
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

      Big business funds the Tory Party, like the Unions fund Labour. He who pays the piper calls the tune. When Labour are in it will be the Unions against the people instead of Big Business as now.
      It should be outlawed. If a Party cannot stand on its own feet it should die, like any other business.

  33. Qubus
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    At least Cameron had the decency to resign when he lost the referendum vote, saying that he was not the right person to conduct the withdrawal negotiations. May, as a Remainer should never have become PM, it should have been a Brexiteer. By accepting the job as PM she put self before party and party before county. She is a traitor to the country and,in time, will go down as the worst PM in history. I don’t think I shall have ever be able to vote Conservative again.

    • graham1946
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

      The Tories would not and will not have a Leaver because they don’t want to leave. As regards voting, if this goes the way I think it will, I will never vote again for anything after a lifetime of trying, mostly voting Tory, but Cameron cured me of that. I voted UKIP at the last meaningful election, but having got 4 million votes and no seats, what is the point of voting at all? It is all a carve up for the 2 main parties and unless you live in a marginal your vote is totally worthless.

  34. GilesB
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Art. 50 explicitly states that the withdrawal agreement needs to take into account the framework for the future relationship. It will be illegal to sign a withdrawal agreement without an agreement for the future relationship.

    However, unlike the UK Supreme Court, the ECJ does not see its role as interpretation of the law. The ECJ makes its decisions based on its own political view on what is best for ever closer union. Hence it would throw out any case to invalidate the EU’s signature of the withdrawal agreement. But the UK Supreme Court could rule that it is illegal for the UK Government to sign. And force the EU to get the ECJ to explicitly overrule the UK Supreme Court on a blatantly political decision.

  35. John Sheridan
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    I wrote to the PM today in response to her request for feedback on her letter regarding the Chequers proposal. In addition to assuring her that I was not supportive of her Chequers proposal, I also mentioned that I was not in favour of signing a Withdrawal Agreement that gave power to the EU in return for a handful of promises.

    It’s only one more drop on the rock, but every drop counts.

    • mancunius
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

      I bet she’s quaking in her leopard-prints already. 🙂

      I hope you put it quite a bit more strongly than that?

  36. Alison
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Thank you, Dr Redwood. I completely agree, and I know a lot of people in my area agree.

    (could you do a ‘George’ edit on this parentheses bit .. Sadly my MP, Ochils etc, seems to like the Chequers agreement at the moment, per his reply to my letter)

  37. Andy
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink


    If you don’t want this agreement, and none of us do, then you know what has to be done: blo*dy useless May has to go. And she can take Robbins with her. May will sign it with maybe an odd comma changed which she will claim as a major revision. What on earth were you MPs doing allowing this stupid woman to become leader ??

  38. am
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 9:56 am | Permalink


  39. Ian wragg
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    The withdrawal agreement is modelled on the Association Agreement signed by Ukraine.
    It is intended to be the first step of countries wishing to join the evil empire.
    Barnier and Juncker are keen for us to sign an agreement. I bet they are. Keeping us irrevocably in the clutches of Brussels for great swathes of our lives

  40. Capt Mannering
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    Mrs May, I don’t like her.

  41. Chris S
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    We all know that this would be unacceptable to a properly independent country.

    I have said here before : we should be applying a USA test to all proposed agreements. In other words, would what is being proposed be acceptable to a US administration, even an Obama one ?

    Anything that would not be acceptable to the US should not be acceptable to a British Government.

    However it seems certain now that a majority of the members of the House of Commons have no intention of standing up for British Independence and we will never become the fully independent country 17.5m people voted for.

    It’s an utter disgrace and an affront to democracy.

  42. Iain Gill
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    When do Mrs May and Brandon Lewis go? Surely long overdue now.

    There should be a formal statement that the chequers deal is dead and buried, and we need to return to actually doing what was said in the manifesto about brexit and immigration.

  43. Arthur Kay
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    It seems that Brussels is planning to disregard WTO rules and apply restrictions and tariffs on our exports to the EU if we do not agree to their deals. By the time the WTO adjudicates on this blatant breach of its rules another two years could pass. Our response needs to be swift and robust. I would propose an immediate 500% duty on all EU wines spirits and cheeses and a 25% duty on all EU motor vehicles. In addition all commercial vehicles entering the UK from the EU that are not registered with the DVLA should pay an entry tax of £100 per road wheel. We might also send one of our Trident missile submarines to visit Dunkirk and Zeebrugge on a “goodwill” mission. We need to show these people we know how to play hardball.

  44. AndyC
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Oh just get Boris in. I know there are doubts in many quarters, but is there really any alternative now? Unless that alternative is a Corbyn government.

    • Tam zdesaw
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

      I fully agree. Boris knows how to lead. I am shocked how weeek Mr Redwood and Mr Rees Mogg turn out to be

      • graham1946
        Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

        They don’t have the numbers. Th EU sycophants rule Parliament and are prepared to ignore the referendum which they voted for.

  45. The funny answer
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    So, if we watch BBC Parliament will will hear from every Remoaner all the arguments and moans which they made before the Referendum on 23rd June 2016 and repeated at considerable length every week and it seems every day since???Fun , Fun, Fun
    We making funny faces instead of answering, is too good for them. It may be an appropriate response though.

  46. Den
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    That Mrs May accepted this Article of Surrender to the EU is proof enough that she is part of the problem and is never going to be the solution.
    The problem WE have, as does the Rest of the World, is within UN Agenda 21 – The Blueprint for an Unelected WORLD Government. AKA “The Establishment”.

  47. Peter D Gardner
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Waste of time pointing out anything to the Government. I have corresponded with my MP, who is a senior member of the cabinet. He asserts black is white and says, “Sorry, but I disagree with you.”
    The truth is that Mrs May’s government will sign anything. The EU know it. The only thing holding the EU back is the fear of pushing Mrs May to the point where she is replaced.
    The best use of the time and energy of all Brexit MPs now is to act together to replace Mrs May with a Brexiteer. Don’t have multiple candidates. Agree on one and push him or her hard. If necessary remove Brandon Lewis – he is currently making that easier to do.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      Agreed, the EU see May as a soft touch and I’m sure would prefer to deal with her rather than a true Leaver.

    • graham1946
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

      If he doesn’t agree with you don’t vote for him and make sure you tell him so.

  48. mancunius
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Such a cowardly capitulation is quite literally sickmaking.
    The French and Germans should surely rebuild the Compiègne Wagon in order to stage the formal signing of this surrender.
    The chain migration agreement, ECJ supervision and virtually unlimited future payment commitments are particularly malignant. But there is no aspect of it that would not be repugnant to any halfway sentient British man or woman with any sense of nationhood whatsoever.
    Do we have many of those in Parliament?
    We should entirely reject this and any other current ‘pseudo-deal’ the EU is ‘prepared’ to give us right now, and gear ourselves up for WTO trading on March 30th 2019.

    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard has pointed out in his excellent DT article of yesterday (Thursday 9th August) exactly what illegal measures the EU will stage in the event of a ‘no-deal’ – and exactly what the UK must do to countermand them in advance.

  49. Nigel Seymour
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    We seem to be heading for higher interest rates. Perhaps this is Mark Carney continuing his anti Brexit rhetoric and project fear? As always, time will tell…
    Should this be the case then I cannot think of another foreigner who has held such massive political sway over this Great Britain and NI. I recall just after the referendum that Carney stated he would be standing down as BOEG but then decided to stay on in order to provide stability during the Brexit negotiations? I ask myself who indeed is this man who seeks to influence Brexit and keep us in the EU. Who are his political (influencers ?) Perhaps the HOL establishment?

  50. Nigel Seymour
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    I will shortly be posting observations regarding Boris and his ‘letter box’ comments. I carry out my own little chats with ordinary folk in and around my area. To date, I have not had one single person that disagrees with what Boris said…

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:58 pm | Permalink


      Likewise !

    • L Jones
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

      No, Mr Seymour – not around here, either. I am feeling increasingly despondent about the party I’ve voted for over many years. What’s the alternative? If there were one, then I’d gladly transfer my allegiance.
      If Boris were to nail his colours to the mast, then perhaps we’d have hope.

  51. Nigel Seymour
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    West Berks Green Bin Charges
    I have a few questions regarding green bin charges from 03/09.
    1. What scoping was completed and where can I find this information?
    2. What are the number of green bins that are registered across west berkshire?
    3. How was the £50 per annum calculated and where can I find this information and exactly how it was calculated?
    4. Where can I find the accounting details of when, where and the amount of money collected for the £50 service?
    5. Where can I find how this yearly collection charge will be used?
    6. Will the charge apply to WBC residents on housing/social benefits ?

    • mancunius
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

      NS – it’s probably in the section of your bill marked ‘Fleecing of residents who own properties with gardens so are likely to be well-off and also unwilling to move. Cash raised will be frittered away on councillor remuneration.’

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

      7. Do I get a bigger wheelie bin because I pay more council tax ?

      Council tax is calculated on the basis that I live in a more valuable (bigger) house and use more services. So where are those extra services, then ?

      Why am I not given bigger bins for my money ?

  52. Martin
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Misspelling. Draft shouldn’t have had the “r”.

  53. Ahem
    Posted August 10, 2018 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    It is getting a bit late in the day to be talking about a withdrawal agreement and then only if we get a good balanced future partnership’s not going to happen and mainly because there is not enough time left now to draw up an agreement like this but also because there is too much disagreement about and not only on the UK side.

    It’s not going to happen either because the EU will likely see a good deal for UK as having our cake and eating it. They are not going to agree to a deal that helps UK be better off outside than it already is inside.. otherwise others in the EU will be looking for the same.. so Mrs Mays chequers paper will be so whitled down she will have to walk away and how this is going to work out is anybody’s guess..very probably we’ll leave with no deal and go to WTO rules and then in a few years time get a FTA of sorts on some items like Canada plus which will improve the situation over time but it will take years.. and by then Labour will be in government and then who knows?

  54. BrexiteerwivMusket
    Posted August 11, 2018 at 12:35 am | Permalink

    Trump tweeted two hours ago he had a phone call with Macron.He usually indicates who phoned who with of course they phoning him.He didn’t say this time. My guess is he phoned Macron. He says they talked mainly .on security and trade.
    I do hope Mrs May has not been signing a joint letter of condemnation of US policy with Macron . We recall our Chancellor tripping over to France a few months ago to sign a condemnation with other EU Chancellors of internal US tax policies.
    Trump did not indicate very precise details so maybe he gave them a knockout punch. He floats like a butterfly stings like a bee…with “allies”

  55. Peter D Gardner
    Posted August 11, 2018 at 2:23 am | Permalink

    I’ll say it again. The Government has stopped listening. There is only one way to save UK’s bid for independence and that is to replace Mrs May before October.

  56. Nigel Seymour
    Posted August 13, 2018 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    James – who lives on his strange little planet!

    to, John

    On Chopper’s Brexit podcast James Cleverly MP tried to win round Chequer-sceptics by claiming that we could “harden” Brexit after we’ve left, saying: “Treaties can be unmade, it doesn’t happen a lot but it can be done”.

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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