This is no deal – this is just a very bad Withdrawal Agreement to make us pay and bind us in

So the Cabinet took much longer to discuss the deal than the PM wanted. The news conference was cancelled and the statement at 5pm happened more than two hours late. The awaiting EU Ambassadors in Brussels lined up to welcome the Cabinet decision were stood down. Maybe ten Cabinet members expressed grave misgivings about the deal and whether it could to sold to Parliament and the public. The Prime Minister had to say it was the collective view of Cabinet to press on, unable to say it was the unanimous or united view.

The Parliamentary arithmetic is clear. The Withdrawal Agreement could only pass into law if Labour wish that to happen. If they oppose as they say they will, there will the DUP, and around 100 Conservative MPs unlikely to vote for it. Of the Conservatives 51 are Eurosceptics who have made public promises to oppose against a 3 line whip, and around 12 Remain Conservatives also likely to be against. Labour has said it does not see it as a good deal worthy of support.

The legal position is also clear. A motion of the House could not strike down legislation. Parliament has already legislated to leave on 29 March 2019. It would require new legislation to amend and repeal the EU Withdrawal Notification Act and the EU Withdrawal Act to stop us leaving next March.

There are four main arguments against the Withdrawal Agreement. It is far too dear, buying us nothing for the money. It binds us back into the customs union and single market we promised to leave, with no guarantee we can get out again. It damages the Union by treating Northern Ireland differently, leading to demands for Scotland also to have different treatment. It stops us negotiating new trade treaties with the rest of the world. I will comment in more detail on the text in due course when we have completed analysis of it, but the main outlines of the so called deal are clear. This is not a deal – it is a Withdrawal Agreement which keeps us in and costs us a fortune.

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255 Comments

  1. Alison
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 5:38 am | Permalink

    Question: has Mrs May triggered the no-deal preparation spending? Which I think she has to do by 15 November (for the work to be done in time, seems very late). If she has not, she has laid herself open to utter condemnation, rightly so.
    Actually I think Mrs May and team have been planning and working to oppose ‘no deal’ – for example, Jim Pickard of the FT tweeted yesterday evening:
    “Straight after the cabinet meeting Philip Hammond, chancellor and Greg Clark, business secretary held a conference call briefing with up to 200 business figures. Hammond thanked the executives for their help in publicising what he called the “horrific” impact of a no deal Brexit.”
    The proposed deal is unimaginably awful. No patriotic Brit could sign it. I can’t see how any patriotic Brit could work at it (I’m thinking of the ‘techical negotiators’).

  2. Peter Wood
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,

    Mrs. May continues to say that her proposed deal DOES keep her promise to return control of our money, laws, borders and trade to the UK parliament. First, your side must clearly and concisely tell the public, in straightforward language, why this is not so.
    Second, you must state in similar terms why leaving on WTO terms is not a ‘cliff-edge’ or ‘crash-out’; that leaving on WTO terms will be different to what we have now, but how such differences can be overcome with simple and reasonable new arrangements.

    Mrs. May is hoping to receive support for fear of ‘having nothing better’ this needs to be shown as a false premise. The Leave side is a long way behind the remainers in publicity, and you need to recover that urgently. I’m sorry to say, the 2 or 3 elder statesmen in your party who come on to try to argue your case is not the way to do this. You need planning and preparation.

  3. Nig l
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    What a spineless bunch many in the Cabinet are, knowing it’s based on deception and ‘lies’ yet still supporting it. Their/your government’s credibility is zero.

    • Captain Peacock
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      Reading the Daily Mail ‘Barnier hails May’s deal and dangles prospect of a trade agreement ……..What!!! has she signed up without any trade deal?

      • Hope
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

        How dare May threaten the country there will be no Brexit! This is a statement of a traitor who has used govt resources and collusion with the EU to undermine our national interest on a public mandate to leave the EU.

        May has no mandate to say one option is no Brexit.

        • Hope
          Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

          JR, there are a lot of people who are confusing the withdrawal agreement deal as the future relationship trade deal. You and colleagues need to make the distinction clear.

          Because the remainers are using no deal, withdrawal agreement, as if it was the trade as well. That is because everyone thought, misled, the trade deal would be complete by March next year and implemented the following day not when talks begin. That is what the £39 billion was for!

          • Hope
            Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

            Nadine Dorries claimed on TV that May spoke to Corbyn to get his support before Tory MPs. Is his correct? If so her lack of loyalty to your party is shocking and must result in her immediate removal. It also clearly demonstrates she will be underhand, slimy in her loyalty to the EU NOT having the national interest whatsoever.

            Also the agreement appears the UK could be in the single market, regulatory alignment, until 2030 this coincides with the French thinking the UK will ask to join in about 15 years time! The French finance minister losing it calling leavers liars.

          • Gary C
            Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

            Our negotiators have made a massive mistake in linking our leaving with a trade deal, we should have made it clear from the start we are leaving under WTO rules and sort out a trade deal separately, adding to that we have had to suffer a huge amount of faffing and capitulation along with the continual whining by those that are not able to accept democracy which leaves us where we are.

            It’s a sad fact that the remainers unable to respect democracy have not only torn the country apart and humiliated the nation but also destroyed trust in our political system, not that they care they will continue to troll and blame other’s for being patriotic and believing in their country.

        • Hope
          Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:45 am | Permalink

          JR, the public demands the immediate replacement of ALL cabinet members. They have agreed to give even more sovereignty of our country without a veto voice or legal way of removing our country from the rule of a foreign owner while content to pay £40 billion plus assets to so! This in direct contrast to what the public voted for. With a seventy to thirty remain dominated cabinet. Explain how this is not the act of traitors?

          • Gary C
            Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

            If we ever bring back hanging for those found guilty of treachery there will be no shortage of those queueing up for the job of kicking the stool away.

        • Simon Coleman
          Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

          And you have no mandate for saying that one option is the only possible Brexit.

      • bigneil
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

        They’ll want extra ££££££ for that.

        • Hope
          Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

          Apparently there is already a £14 billion extra liability on top of the £39. Billion!

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

        Captain Peacock

        I know its fast moving stuff, but do try to keep up.

        Trade deal still to be negotiated sometime in the future, nothing on fishing or agriculture either.

        We stay in limbo for years, whilst the EU picks off Businesses to relocate because we can offer them absolutely diddly squat on what future trading terms may be..

      • ian wragg
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

        gloating that they retain control of most of Britains governance.
        Only someone as stupid as May and Robbins could sign up to such nonsense.
        The sight of May at the Cenotaph whilst surrendering to Brussels was the supreme irony.
        She makes me sick.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      I disagree, better to be inside the tent weeing out in this case. Resigning would not alter the course it would just dilute the number of leave supporters in the cabinet.

      Until Mrs May is deposed we need well placed leave supporters to proliferate. And even if 48 letters are received there is no guarantee Mrs May will lose the first round.

      Resignations after chequers did not change the direction of travel. Better to continue to argue from within, vote against it and be sacked. Much more impactful than resigning and what I am expecting from several of the prominent leavers in the cabinet.

      As an aside I hope you, Mr Redwood, get plenty of coverage to make your case as above.

    • oldtimer
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      Raab has resigned. His resignation letter is a devastating rebuttal of toxic May’s mendacious arguments.

      • J.White
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

        I agree. If the. Brexit Secretary is so scathing about 5he deal and resigns that tells us a lot! Even an idiot can seethat we will be trapped in this customs union forever . We have been lied to by Prime Ministers and Minsters for so many years . There is always just a little truth in what is said but when you read it is not telling the whole truth! It’s deceitful. Just heard Ken Clark and the Labour Party saying parliament should ignore the referendum and do what they think is right for the country and stay in CU/SM. It was clearly stated it was our decision we voted to leave including CU/SM anything else is not Brexit. Now they are suggesting we will get a choice of accept the deal or remain! No it should be if there is a vote – accept the deal or no deal. We have already voted to leave didn’t they HEAR us the first time. A second referendum would be rigged. Beware what they wish for 17 million plus angry voters will not bode well.

        • Simon Coleman
          Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

          You’ve been lied to by the Leave campaign who told you that the UK could exit the EU with no obligations, no conditions, no responsibilities to business, NI border etc. If you’re too stupid to ask basic questions, then your anger is self-inflicted. And there was nothing on the ballot paper about Customs Union or Single Market.

          Reply We can just leave in March without a Withdrawal Agreement

          • libertarian
            Posted November 16, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

            Simon Coleman

            It seems its you that is stupid ( no surprise really) . It is perfectly possible to just leave the EU ( 3 countries already did it) and trade on WTO terms

            Once we leave the EU’s 3 biggest markets will be

            1) USA
            2) UK
            3) China

            The EU trade with ALL of these on WTO terms as none of them have trade agreements

    • Jagman84
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:38 am | Permalink

      That’s why they are in the cabinet. Any opposition has been ‘re-shuffled’ or has already resigned. The remaining Brexiteers-in-name-only have signed their own political death warrants. Get the letters in and get the traitors out.

  4. eeyore
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Phoney war is now over and battle is joined for real. I fully support our host, salute his wisdom and great courage, and pray for his and Britain’s success in the face of this dishonourable capitulation.

    • formula57
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:47 am | Permalink

      Well said eeyore!

      • Hope
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

        Alistair Heath today: In business and in life, contracts always come with a break clause. The rules are clear, and go to the heart of what modern, liberal Western societies consider to be natural justice.

        Either side can choose to leave; a deal that is done can also be undone; and nobody can force somebody to keep doing something they no longer want to do. A contracting party seeking to quit may have to give notice, but they cannot be forced to stay in a relationship they no longer wish to be part of. They don’t need to beg. They just need to inform the other side, and follow a set of clear, pre-agreed rules.

        Compare to what May has agreed.

    • Peter
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:17 am | Permalink

      Agreed. Nice to hear Mr. Redwood explain much of this on radio 4 ‘Today’ programme. No snide comments from Nick Robinson either.

      • Stephen Priest
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:20 am | Permalink

        I understand Mr Redwood was told by the BBC “most people” don’t agree it would be good to leave without a deal.

        Of course what the BBC means by “most people” is the political and media class.

        According to opinion polls the favoured option by real people is no deal/WTO.

    • Atlas
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

      Agreed eeyore. I hope the 48+ letters are there.

  5. Lifelogic
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    The agreement is truly appalling, the very worst of all worlds. How on Earth can the government claim that it delivers Brexit and restores control of our borders, laws, fishing and money? It is just lies, lies and more lies. It clearly does nothing of the kind for very many years and probably longer still. It prevents the UK being becoming remotely competitive. Essentially it is remain with no say in the rules. If the Tory party allow this sell out to go through they are totally finished.

    May says that her heart and brain tell her it is the best way to go. Well she is wrong on this and indeed almost everything else she touches. She is also an electoral liability who threw an election through gross incompetence and her idiotic punishment manifesto. Perhaps it is time for her to retire sick and have a brain and heart transplant on the dire NHS she so champions.

  6. Tom Weston
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    ‘You know what some people call us, “the nasty party”’.

    Mrs May appears to have found a way to kill off the Tory party completely. She has lied to her Cabinet and her party and she has lied to the British people. Who will ever trust a Tory promise again?

  7. Tabulazero
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    What is happening was fully predictable. Either you and your ERG friends topple the government or you fold. You did nothing for 2 years.

    Since you do not have any credible plan for a no deal Brexit and no majority to get it through Parliament you either accept the PM’s plan or she cancels Brexit.

    It’s hilarious.

    • TRP
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

      48 letters to Graham Brady will start the process but actually the CP constitution would presently require 159 CP MPs voting together in the subsequent vote to change the PM. Is there a possibility of getting so many CP MPs against TM? Or are the (headless chicken) Brexiteers going into a Jonestown-type suicide?

      • Tabulazero
        Posted November 16, 2018 at 11:33 am | Permalink

        The Brexiteers are just going to argue that “had it been implemented the correct way, their beloved Brexit would have worked”…. a little bit like the marxists actually.

        It’s a cult.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 17, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

          Remainers say brexit cannot be done.
          The “abyss” “cliff face” argument
          Project Fear continues.

  8. Newmania
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    Not the fantasy Brexit you had in your head poor you ? Nonetheless you are 100% responsible the real life consequences of your irresponsible behaviour . Of course others will actually pay ..as ever ?
    For two years you have supplied the dim witted and idle with lines to take almost none of which were true and absolutely none of which will get more than a hoarse laugh in any board room in the country
    Quite aside from the voluntary impoverishment of the country and the loss of its international prestige what about the democratic deficit ?
    Poll after poll shows the people want a say on the real options . The large and growing remain majority reject every syllable of the Conservative Party bodge job and want none on this superannuated hobbyists absurdity . You , your tiny group of obsessives, and Jeremy Corbyn have done this to us .Congratulations , you must be so proud.

  9. Lifelogic
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    Excellent piece by Allister Heath today in the Telegraph:- Britain cannot accept this horrific, humiliating surrender to the EU. If Mrs May has her way, we will be left in the control of a hostile power, with no voice and no legal way out.

    Also from Norman Lamont and even Nick (lets throw the election manifesto) Timothy seems to have finally come to his senses.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:59 am | Permalink

      As A Heath puts it:-

      The EU hopes, presumably, to buy time, to debilitate the UK for a few years, perhaps to ensure the election of a hard-Left government, which would wreak yet more chaos in Britain…..

      Its only mission is to preserve its own territory and consolidate its control. It probably now half‑accepts that the UK will leave – but if it can keep the country subjugated, extracting cash and making sure it doesn’t become too competitive, then it will at least have preserved influence over its “near abroad”.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted November 16, 2018 at 7:35 am | Permalink

        The EU does not care who ends up the PM. It will deal with anyone. It just want to prevents the English from having its cake and eat it at its expense.

        It is the UK and not the EU that asked for a transition deal. The real talks have not even started.

    • Newmania
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

      Errm yes it can yes it will . What has been done was what was always goignto be done .The maximum economic damage the worst possible position for the country but saving appearances for the moment so the politicians can make up another lot of lies

      We have sacrificed Financial Services for he sake of fishing and it wont even help fishing !!!!!!…. Why oh why oh why can one not swear …. you very very very very foolish people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Edward2
        Posted November 16, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

        You lefties love a nice exclamation mark.

  10. Mick
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    I don’t know if it’s a good or bad deal because of the complicated scripting put in the confuse the average person, but what I do know is this

    Parliament will debate this petition on 3 December 2018.
    Stop possible second referendum on E.U. membership petition I signed, is this a fall back by the government knowing full well it would be defeated and a second referendum will happen and everything including the kitchen sink will be chucked at the campaign to keep us tied to the dying corpse the Eu , just a thought

  11. gordon winton
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    The downing street cats have never see as many rats, downing street was over run with them yesterday!

    • Tabulazero
      Posted November 16, 2018 at 7:38 am | Permalink

      and they are all leaving the ship: Davis, Johnson, Raab, Braverman…

  12. Lifelogic
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    On the bright side we can still replace May, get a real Brexit and avoid Corbyn/SNP. But it will not be easy after the appalling disingenuous mess that the appalling May/Hammond/Greg Clark types have created.

  13. Old Albion
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    I hope the ‘deal’ is voted down when it reaches the commons and I hope it costs Mrs May her job.
    Elect a new leader who genuinely supports ‘leave’ and let him tell the EU how things are to be.
    Who? I hear you ask………………………………………..Calling Boris, calling Boris.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted November 16, 2018 at 11:37 am | Permalink

      Yawn…. because you think that a leader with the attention span of a goldfish is the right leader for the UK right now ?

      You’ve seen his performance as F.S. and yet you would like him to be P.M ?

  14. Captain Peacock
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    May has just ignored the will of the people and wants us to be still ruled over by unelected foreigners. I cannot understand why we need 650 MPs and a staggering 845 Lords if the EU is still running the show?
    Did you notice yesterday a Rumanian court ruled that we the British taxpayer have to pay £150 a month for some woman’s children who has never set foot in the country.
    Expect more of this its never going to stop.

  15. Roy Grainger
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    One problem is that if they try to oust May in a leadership vote and she wins the vote of no confidence by 1 then she’ll stay – she has no shame. It is really quite extraordinary to have someone as PM who tells so many barefaced lies.

    • matthu
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

      She would be unable to govern without acquiescence from Labour for almost every vote in parliament. Not really a workable proposition.

    • Chris
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

      They have had so long to decide how to take action that one would hope that they have factored that problem in, R G, and developed a fail safe strategy.

    • Duyfken
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:45 am | Permalink

      In agreeing with your views, I suggest that were May re-elected leader, this would incur as much public censure of the present crop of Tory MPs as of May herself. Those still supporting the woman are already tainted (imo) and will surely pay for their sins at the next GE.

    • A different Simon
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:28 am | Permalink

      The trouble is nobody with any reputation or who can be trusted is giving any indication that they are going to put themselves forward as her replacement .

      Being P.M. has huge personal costs attached and has destroyed peoples health e.g. Harold Wilson .

      One would have to be a glutton for punishment . When it comes down to it I think that is what is stopping J.R.M.

      The Conservatives have to replace May before the next general election , even against the black comedy outfit of Corbyn and McDonnell .

      Letting May take the flack for Brexit before bringing in an untainted successor is just cowardice which sadly is typical of the Conservative Party and it’s MP’s these days .

      The hour cometh , where is the man ?

    • Bob
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:39 am | Permalink

      @Roy Grainger

      Yes, you have to hand it to her, she’s quite an accomplished liar.
      A vicars daughter too!

  16. margaret
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    I despair .If the house and the conservatives show trust in their leader to deliver without throwing her out ,they are made a fool of. The obvious concerns re tariffs which you have voiced again and again have been totally ignored and the opposite has been fixed as part of the deal. The snub and jealously shown is a part of what overall has been the line since we joined the EU. It has been like a dripping tap of breaking the state down and therefore the union. What is more our own fools back others against us complaining about the state , thinking individual jealously can trash the moat against our bailey.No deal please.

  17. hans christian ivers
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    It will cost a fortune with a WTO solution as well, as the whole frame-work of WTO is also currently Being undermined by the US and China

    • libertarian
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

      hans

      Oh dear well seeing as the EU mostly trades under WTO by your analysis being tied to the EU is a double whammy

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

        Actually the solution is much more than just WTO and you big business man is also aware of this as well

        • libertarian
          Posted November 16, 2018 at 11:57 am | Permalink

          hans

          Lol, one day you will get something right i’m sure

    • Jagman84
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

      With Brexit, Money is not the prime issue for the average citizen. It only matters to the globalists on the inside, peeing out. The ones who can up sticks and move if things are not to their liking.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

      Rubbish. The EU and each of its individual member states, at present including the UK, are solemnly bound by the WTO treaties now and will continue to be solemnly bound by the WTO treaties irrespective of what the US and China may do.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

        Dennis Cooper,

        You are jumping the gun again.

        We need to work on getting WTO to work better as there is only limited number of judges and there is an increasing amount of members not following the basic rules

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted November 16, 2018 at 7:40 am | Permalink

          So what you are saying is that the EU and its continuing member states would not follow the basic rules of the WTO treaties by which they have agreed to be solemnly bound. In which case, what is the point of seeking any other trade treaty with such unreliable counter-parties?

        • Edward2
          Posted November 16, 2018 at 8:29 am | Permalink

          No one says the WTO is a perfect set of rules for world trade.
          Neither is the Single Market.
          Although the WTO tries to encourage free and fair trade whereas the Single Market is rapidly becoming a protectionist bloc.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

      It is not about money, it is about FREEDOM. FREEDOM to govern ourselves and in our own interests. That’s the problem with you people, you simply do not understand.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

        MarkB

        Who is you people?

        Rather derogatory and not very helpful or defined remark

        • Edward2
          Posted November 16, 2018 at 8:30 am | Permalink

          Plainly it is people (like you) who love the EU.

  18. formula57
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    We must now have resignations from the Cabinet – starting with T.May.

  19. Henry Spark
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    I agree it is a terrible deal. It is far worse than just leaving, taking the economic hit but then making our own choices – Mrs May’s deal involves taking the hit but still being bound to the EU. It is far worse than just remaining – Mrs May’s deal involves remaining bound to the EU but with no say. Vote it down!

    • Richard1
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

      Fully agreed

    • hans christian ivers
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

      Henry Spark

      Please, give us your best alternative

  20. DUNCAN
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    I can’t find the words to express the contempt I have right now for this PM but also the actions of some Tory MPs.

    We can only hope that our honourable host and many of his colleagues engineer some form of attack that blunts and hopefully fatally weakens the position of this PM

    This is a day of national shame. It is a day in which British democracy came under direct political attack and the UK now finds itself on its knees at the feet of the EU, Germany and the Irish government

  21. James Wallace-Dunlop
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    Truly dreadful. Worse than remaining, which is difficult!

    A general election and/or another referendum would be better than this horrendous deal

    A remainer might think that modifying freedom of movement post 2020 is a ‘victory’ worth purchasing at the price of giving up our votes & veto, and losing even the 2-year-long Article 50 escape route. Such ideas stem from Robbins & May believing their own nonsense that the Leave vote was about immigration. It was about sovereignty, which this deal discards.

    How can Gove possibly support this deal?

    Our best hope is that Corbyn defies the europhiles in his party and Labour opposes the deal. That at least gives a chance of No Deal, which now seems the best outcome available (I say this as someone whose first choice would have been EFTA/EEA membership until the mid 2020s)

  22. sm
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    I read the headlines this morning and felt too sick to actually read the details.

  23. Everhopeful
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    What a shameful pantomime this has all been. Cruel as well. I for one believed in democracy. Unfortunately, the powers- that- be only “honour” the will of the people when the “correct” answer is obtained. After this fiasco do they really think they can keep on fooling us?

    • Chris
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      Yes, Eh, the betrayal has been quite staggering. What is more is that it was carried out under the noses of Brexiter MPs, and latterly quite openly, and with such arrogance. Pride comes before a fall, and I hope this fall is commensurate with the size and depth of the betrayal that has taken place.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      When May was foisted upon us, many of us could see from the outset the inevitable consequences of her ‘enthronement’. This was yet another remainer who was always going to betray us, and we said as much from day one.

      We needed someone who could unite the Conservative party, and give strong and stable leadership. Her supporters assured us she was the right person. Instead, and thanks to her bare-faced duplicity, she has caused political civil war at Westminster and we are not far away from that deplorable situation out in the wider community. I have never before seen so much resentment and bitterness amongst ordinary folk, all because of the sly and underhanded undermining of the democratic decisions May and her cohorts had taken. May’s Lancaster House speech was just one example of her supreme duplicity. Clearly she had no intention of delivering on it.

      May’s removal is absolutely imperative at the earliest opportunity for the sake of the country, but it’s no good replacing like with like. The next leader has to be credible and have integrity in spades – and this time, they must be a solid Brexiteer!!!

      So to those Conservative MPs who are still sitting on the fence, they must now do their duty to the country, put in those letters to Sir Graham Brady, and give us a leader we can count on to deliver the Brexit we voted for, not betray us every inch of the way and place this nation’s destiny in the hands of unelected civil servants who have an inherent leaning towards the very thing we are trying to escape from.

      Tad Davison

      Cambridge

  24. Iain Gill
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    May must go

    • Timaction
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:09 am | Permalink

      Agreed. We need a new system to rid ourselves of the swamp in Westminster. Too many act against our best interests. May claiming her deal is in the National interest when it clearly isn’t. She should already be gone. Her lies goes on and on! She has no shame.

  25. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    For goodness sake John give this diary a rest for a few days and get out there and organize the down fall of Mrs May!!! The whole world must be having a laugh at a country so weak, stupid and unable to uphold democracy or even able to see when a deal is bad. This government is willing to hand out £39b for nothing when our schools, military, NHS and social care are crumbling. She has nothing in return. How can decent politicians even think about turning up for work? Talk about depressing and time for a new career.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      no this diary is good interaction with the public, something most MP’s fail at miserably

      a six year old kid could knock Mrs May out now

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

        Iain, this diary is a welcome interaction and I was only suggesting a break for John yo concentrate on getting May out of it. Not breaking forever. Give the man a break.

  26. Mark B
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    I must confess to be feeling a little let down by all this today. It was always coming but I thought it was never going to be this bad.

    We really do not want to be in either the CU or SM. Being in both and still having to pay them to sell more to us is quite frankly appauling. Whoever thought this up, and I think most of us can guess which Senior Civil Sepent did, needs firing.

    I hate it when people cite the; “National interest” as to somehow justify their acts. It is not in our interests to be closely wedded to a political project that is happy to see millions impoverished so that a very few can get very rich. Disgusting !

    • John Hatfield
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

      When May says she is doing what’s best for Britain, I wonder how she defines ‘Britain’ because I don’t think she includes the British people, the poor bloody taxpayers, in that, just the 6%, her controllers.

    • L Jones
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

      As you say, Mark B, we don’t want to be in either the CU or SM. And Mrs May has in the near past CATEGORICALLY stated that we would not remain in either. Did she, even then, know that a detailed stitch-up was being planned (and surely that huge document took a long time in the writing)?
      I hate to think this. I hate to think of someone in whom we should be able to place our trust has let down our country so comprehensively. Or at least – she has TRIED to let down our country. I do hope that now someone will stop her.
      How can she sleep at night?

  27. Brexit Facts4EU.org
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Dr Redwood, we endorse your immediate analysis. Very similar to ours. You continue to be a stand-out Brexiteer parliamentarian. We don’t always agree on everything of course, but we know you will be resolute in opposing this. Bravo.

    Our own overnight response to Mrs May’s appalling ‘deal’ is on our news page.

    Best wishes, the Brexit Facts4EU.Org team
    http://facts4eu.org/news.shtml

  28. BCL
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    It appears Mrs May has become the best recruiting sergeant UKIP has ever had. I have always been a Tory at heart but confess to having voted UKIP in the past. After the referendum I “reverted to type” and thought myself back in my natural Tory home, UKIP’s job having been done. I’m now wondering if that may have been premature.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink

      BCL Its’ UKIP for me again. I’m the same as you. Voted Conservative all my life and then reverted to UKIP only come back to Conservative with the promise of Brexit. I cannot vote Labour as it’s against everything I believe in and UKIP’s manifesto is better than that of Conservative so UKIP it is if there is another election. They cannot be any worse than Corbyn and might just make the Conservative party, or what’s left of it, sit up and take notice. We need to be radical now.

    • IanM
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

      Ditto.

    • Bob
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

      I stopped voting Tory when the rising damp set it with Call me Dave, and the party has become wetter and wetter since.

      UKIP are the new Conservatives.

      • Timaction
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

        Agreed. We do need radical change from the liars in Westminster! Democracy is broken!

    • margaret howard
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

      UKIP? You’ll have a long way to go.

      They couldn’t even hold on to the one parliamentary seat they held.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

        Margaret, coming from someone who is do clearly against her own country with others like Andy I’ll ignore your advice.

        • margaret howard
          Posted November 16, 2018 at 11:13 am | Permalink

          But is it true?

      • Jagman84
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

        He was a Tory plant and said as much, when ousted from his seat. Please try to inform yourself. You have failed miserably so far…

      • libertarian
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

        margaret howard

        That is true, but then they DID win outright the last MEP elections.

        That might tell you what a real majority of people in the UK feel.

  29. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Indeed, article 50 is about a withdrawal agreement. Your side cleverly negotiated an “implementation period” in order to negotiate some kind of FTA. The EUside obliged.

    “the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union”.
    The current withdrawal agreement takes account of such a framework.

    • mancunius
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

      No, it does the exact opposite.

  30. Tom Weston
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    We have been given the text of the Surrender Treaty.
    We are promised the Attorney General’s opinion.
    The IMF has conveniently provided a warning that No-Deal would cost 6% of GDP.
    When will the Treasury provide the data to allow testing of its slated forecasts?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

      Oddly enough back in 2017 when the German government commissioned a study of the likely economic effects of various Brexit scenarios the long term outcome for the UK of defaulting to the terms of the WTO treaties was much less damaging than has been claimed by the UK government and its various friends and allies.

      https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-even-worst-case-brexit-will-be-bearable-for-eu/

      “Germany: Even worst-case Brexit will be bearable for EU”

      “A new study simulates the effects of eight different Brexit scenarios on the German and EU economy.”

      However the key finding from our point of view was:

      “In the scenario where the U.K. and the EU fail to strike a trade deal and fall back on World Trade Organization rules, the study predicts the U.K. economy would lose 1.7 percent of economic output over the long-term”

      If you asked me to explain why a German government study should predict only a minor erosion of the UK’s long term economic growth, less than 2%, if we were to default to the WTO treaties for our trade with the EU, while the UK government keeps insisting that it would a disastrous 8% loss of GDP, then I would have to repeat my view that the UK government is dominated by liars who have no scruples about pulling the wool over the eyes of the people they are supposed to be serving and who are paying for their maintenance.

  31. Oldwulf
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    Mrs May must know this “deal” will fail. So what is she really doing ?

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      Perhaps she is right and she will actually get it through with Labour support. We know that most Tory MPs can be very, very stupid indeed. They even elected John ERM Major a second time as PM and duly followed him over the cliff for many terms.

      Are they going to do it again? Just get rid of this daft, socialist, traitor and replace with a real Tory with vision.

    • bigneil
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      She is after a reward from Brussels for keeping us in – a position there as a “thank you” for her treachery in the destruction of our country.

      • margaret howard
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

        If any one group can be accused of being responsible for the state of our country at the moment it is the ignorant Brexit voters. Nothing on their mind but selfish nationalism and a misguided view of our history.

        Exit Brexit for the sake of our children.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 16, 2018 at 12:53 am | Permalink

          You lefties always hurl abuse at any who hold different views to yourselves.
          Its like extreme religions shouting blasphemer.

        • a-tracy
          Posted November 16, 2018 at 9:09 am | Permalink

          ‘the state of our country’ – what on earth are you going on about margaret, everyone I know and speak to are calm and just waiting for a ruling and understanding of the changes required from March next year?
          The losers of the EU referendum vote whether remain or leave were always going to be bitterly disappointed, as you are in this case, especially as the vote was so close, just as in Scotland with their Independence referendum being lost and Sturgeon and Co not recovering or accepting that once in a lifetime vote.

          • margaret howard
            Posted November 16, 2018 at 11:19 am | Permalink

            “just as in Scotland with their Independence referendum being lost”

            That was before the disastrous UK Brexit vote. No doubt the outcome would have been different and will be when the Scots vote to stay in the EU as they have so overwhelmingly in the referendum.

          • a-tracy
            Posted November 21, 2018 at 11:18 am | Permalink

            In 2017 (last year) the SNP lost 21 seats, in their manifesto in May 2016 they were pushing for a second referendum for Scottish independence, yet in the Guardian 27 Jun 2017 – “First minister accepts there is no popular support for another vote”.

        • libertarian
          Posted November 16, 2018 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

          margaret howard

          I’m pleased and proud to be held partly responsible for the state of our country at the moment

          The highest number employed in our history

          The lowest number of youth unemployed since the 1970’s

          Wages growing the fastest in Western Europe

          Record amounts of FDI

          Export markets to rest of world growing

          Record number of new businesses

          Now 4 UK unicorn tech businesses

          One new Digital/Fin Tech company launching every 55 seconds

          Surge in female entrepreneurs ( grew by 45% last year)

          Highest numbers of businesses at 5.8 million

          • margaret howard
            Posted November 17, 2018 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

            libertarian

            “I’m pleased and proud to be held partly responsible for the state of our country at the moment”

            Well, as you believe we are doing so well as a country as a member of the EU why are you so keen to leave?

    • Iain Moore
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:52 am | Permalink

      It is very hard to understand , she must have read the document and realised there goes my Prime Ministerial career, and any way there is no chance of getting it through Parliament. So why go through this masochistic exercise? Olly Robbins document should have been thrown in the bin, Is the No 10 bunker so deep, and her staff so sycophantic, that she never got wind of the discontent such an agreement would create?

    • L Jones
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

      No. Surely she can’t have been playing the ‘long game’ all this time. If so, this would certainly be a blinder.
      Sadly, probably not.

  32. oldtimer
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Your headline sums it up. It will require parliamentary votes and guile to defeat this toxic Tory and to restore faith in the integrity of parliamentary decisions. You have my 100% support in this historic task.

  33. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Theresa May has the same mantra every time she speaks about Brexit in general or specicfically about the Withdrawal Agreement and it is plainly disingenuous. Why is she never challenged on what can only be described as lies?

    • L Jones
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      I used to think she was cleverly pretending to be disingenuous – that she was playing the long game. Now I believe that her contrived confidence, badly acted, especially when delivering her ”keynote speeches” is just a sign of duplicity and an effort to disguise her deficiencies.

      She’s a weak person, out of her depth, with her strings pulled every which way since the referendum, and she hasn’t been strong enough to resist with honour. The Oily Robbinses and his ilk who’ve been circling since the referendum haven’t been slow to exploit her weaknesses, have they?

      I’d rather think that than believe she has quite deliberately attempted to betray our country and, not so importantly, her party.

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

      Take back control of trade, our borders, fishing and our money, ……… lies, lies, lies under this deal.

      So Rabb resigns, but how can anyone sensible have “enduring respect” for Appeaser May? As he says in his resignation letter. She is a complete disgrace.

      As Richard Littlejohn sensibly put it yesterday:-

      The only way forward is for her to fall off her kitten heels, sooner rather than later. After two wasted years of dissembling, betrayal, incompetence and downright surrender to Brussels, Mother Theresa deserves nothing less than an ignominious departure.

  34. backtothefuture
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    Amazed, and am sitting here in awe, agog, at the stupidity of it all, how could our political leaders have got it so spectacularly wrong? Where is IDS and Merkel’s Bavarian car workers or Boris’s and Gove’s French wine producers who were expected to come on side? Why have the EU27 not cracked by now and broke ranks like Farage promised back in 2016? Even the tabloid rag press is now taking a different slant on things. For myself, I could see it coming twenty, thirty years ago and now it’s happening- it’s happening because we have no plan, never had a plan on what to do next- so hard reality bites- and now we are stuck in the Hotel California- outfoxed and outboxed by that clever Mr Barnier- am totally disgusted I have nothing more to say

  35. Bob Wade
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    I agree with JR. I want a clean brexit, however I said from day one we would never be allowed to leave. We have been played like a fiddle. It was always the intention of a remainer PM to take this to the wire and give a deal which in effect keeps us in indefinitely, with little time to do anything else. To read that it is her deal, Corbyn or no brexit is awful. If this does go through I predict in a few years time there will be an outcry at some EU decision and the remainers will demand a place at the table. Once they have the 39 billion the EU will never talk about brexit again. Just as Blair gave up our rebate to re negotiate the CAP, once they had the money it was never spoken about again.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

      Agree Bob. I also said the day after the referendum that we would not leave and everyone shouted me down. I was right. Democracy does not really exist.

  36. Nig l
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Allegedly the threat was back me or get Corbyn. Wow sod the voters and the country as long as you stay in power.

    • Gary C
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      That threat obviously worked with the weak and spineless cabinet but it won’t work on the street, pack your bags TM and make room for a proper PM.

      • Timaction
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

        Says it all about the morals and scruples of this inadequate Cabinet!

  37. NigelE
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    How will Labour play this? Will they, as they have stated, oppose the deal and vote against it? Or will they abstain, to deliberately cause the Conservatives even more grief and damage further down the road at the next election.

    If the latter, this dreadful deal will pass and we will truly have been shafted by the politicians of both major parties.

  38. Ian Murray
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    An abject surrender to the EU. The sooner that Mrs. May, Philip Hammond and Greg Clark depart the better it will be for my blood pressure.

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      Mine too. It can be done and we can still avoid Corbyn/SNP but May has to go.

  39. Al
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    If this is so certain to be struck down, I am surprised no other party including the Opposition has taken advantage and made it a confidence vote. If Ms. May’s leadership will not be challenged from within her party, while she continues to pursue motions that are unacceptable across the board it leaves the government open to having an election forced upon it.

    I suppose there is little benefit to them in removing her now, as she continues to erode trust and support among the electorate.

  40. Alan Jutson
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Whatever happened to “NOTHING IS AGREED UNTIL EVERYTHING IS AGREED”

    No trade deal Terms, No fishing deal Terms, No Agricultural Terms, and very little else agreed at all.

    In short Bugger all for our money, but we have to take on trust what they may decide to offer in future negotiations, and in the meantime pay even more money and accept all the EU rules and regulations without any say in the making of them forever.

    Businesses now in limbo for years !!!!!

    Sorry John but if this is the best May can do after more than 2 years of thinking and talking about it, your Party has lost my vote until she has gone.
    Aware that is unfair on you, but clearly she is not listening to anyone other than OILY Robins

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

      John

      A problem with my comment ?

  41. RAF
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood, you state in this article, ‘It stops us negotiating new trade treaties with the rest of the world.’
    Yesterday at PMQs Mrs May, in an answer to Julia Lopez MP, affirmed that under this agreement the UK will be able to strike independent trade deals around the World and mentioned Japan, Vietnam and Australia as examples of nations the UK could negotiate with. Is Mrs May correct? Or is she misinformed, uninformed or does she not know which way is up?

    The Agreement makes clear we cannot sign new Trade Treaties, and given the inability to get out of the backstop when we wish who would want to waste time negotiating with us when we are not in charge of our trade policy?

    • L Jones
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

      Mrs May, from the start, was going to be one to be manipulated by those much stronger and more ruthless than any we have ‘on our side’. Perhaps she was chosen for that very reason.

      • Hope
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

        RAF, she said the UK could negotiate trade deals, that is a world away from being able to implement them until after we left. However, the backstop does not allow the UK to leave without themEU permission. Furthermore who would negotiate not knowing when it could start or if temEU put t UK in a different position foto m what it wa negotiating? Technically the U.K. Could negotiate, nothing more.

      • Turboterrier.
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

        @ L Jones

        The way Leadsom appears to be sitting on the fence, we would it appear be just as worse off.

        Too many, far too many all there each and everyone of them with their own secret agenda, The cabinet seems packed with liars, back stabbers and cheats all of them totally ignoring the electorate. Their incompetence, ignorance and arrogance seems to know no limits.

    • Martyn G
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:45 am | Permalink

      May was hiding the actual truth, as usual. As I understand it, the UK can negotiate trade deals outside of the EU but not until the EU has first made a deal with the country in question. In short, the EU can and will limit our ability to trade as an independent sovereign nation.

    • Chris
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      RAF, the ease with which Theresa May seems to deliver statements which are quite obviously untrue indicates to me the depth of corruption of May. There can be no other interpretation of this behaviour. The end (BRINO) justifies the means apparently, with falsehoods being one of the many tools routinely employed to deceive and to gain support through false promises.

  42. Bob
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    So Mrs May is having cozy chats with the Labour leadership eh!

    Who would have thunk it?

    • Jagman84
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

      Which leadership is that? The Corbyn wing or the Starmer wing, aka, the opposition to the official opposition?

  43. A.Sedgwick
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Most of us thought May to be the wrong choice for PM in July 2016, regardless of Brexit.

    Within 3 months she had confirmed Hinckley C and HS2, showing she had lost none of her disastrous tendencies so evident as Home Secretary.

    Now we have her and a few henchman displaying deceit beyond belief.

    For the umpteenth time Conservative MPs get rid of her.

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

      She is wrong, wrong, wrong on nearly every single issue and a huge disingenuous, electoral liability too.

  44. outsider
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Dear Mr Redwood, You are right in your analysis and determination. I have been up all night reading the Draft Agreement, as I did with the Maastricht document that Mr Clarke passed by. Both are deliberately wordy, unreadable and repetitive, designed to obscure future avenues of control. While it is sometimes hard to distinguish between transition and permanent arrangements, some themes stick out:
    1) The transitional arrangements are the EU’s plan for the “new relationship” and the only one it is ever likely to agree.
    2) No other relationship could plausibly be agreed by the end of 2020 anyway and there is repeated stress on unlimited time extensions that would leave us with the status quo by default.
    3) Our relations with the Union would permanently be governed by a vast web of bodies of “independent” officials and secretariats ranging from specialist sub-committees on human rights in Northern Ireland to the ECJ, that will be able to rule on anything from tiny details to the validity of future Acts of Parliament.
    4) In some areas, the EU would have more control than it does today (NI, Cyprus, climate change). Under this draft, Scotland would have more freedom from the UK than the UK would have from the Union.

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:13 am | Permalink

      Indeed it is a finely crafted attempted con trick. Has May been fooled by it or is she as I suspect part or the attempted con?

      • Bob
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

        @lifelogic

        “Has May been fooled by it or is she as I suspect part or the attempted con?”

        It is indeed as you suspected.

      • Timaction
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

        She is fully aware and has contrived the Northern Ireland backstop nonsense with her EU, German and French counterparts. She should be impeached!

  45. Kevin
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    A frequent refrain at the moment is, “Do you want Corbyn in?”, echoing the line from Animal Farm, “Surely, comrades, you do not want Jones back?”.

    Why is it a foregone conclusion that Corbyn would get in? The precedent appears to have been set that a democratic vote can be ignored. Why can’t the Conservatives simply replace Theresa May and then refuse to implement the result of any subsequent general election?

    • Al
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:52 am | Permalink

      I heard an interesting comment today, from a group of younger voters when I asked about voting Corbyn. It boiled down to: The same people telling us we don’t want Brexit are the same ones telling us we don’t want Corbyn. We know they’re lying about one, so maybe Corbyn isn’t so bad.

      The more vindictive view was simply that under May and Hammond we suffer so big business and cronies get breaks. Under Corbyn everyone suffers. To me that is cutting off noses to spite faces, but there are groups thinking that.

    • A different Simon
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

      If the referendum result can just be ignored by the establishment then I won’t be voting at any future election until there is a credible non-establishment alternative on the ballot paper .

      Democracy would survive Corbyn , it can’t survive another term of Conservative govt which is characterised by taking it’s instructions from big financial organisations and undermining public services .

      May , Hammond , Clarke and especially the puppet master Letwin must go .

  46. stred
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Presumably, as part of the plan to make an exit under WTO rules unacceptable to a gullible electorate, the government has not installed cameras and computers at Dover for the French customs to use. They will continue to inspect passports as now but will have to inspect paper documents for the largely empty lorries to return from the UK to fetch back EU produce. The large number of Irish lorries may, hopefully, be able to send their poor cattle for slaughter on the continent via the long voyage to France. If the French follow the Globalist agent Macron’s orders, they will hold up lorries and cause delays to their returning EU exports.

    As a matter of interest, I drove our car into Lidl’s last week and, coming from a side road, did not see a no right turn sign high on the left and assumed that the no entry sign on the central island into the shop applied to the right hand exit, otherwise no-one would be able to enter the car park. The council had installed a little camera high on a lampost and it photographed my number and sent the date and details to a computer which fined me £135. I expect it has paid for itself many times over by now.

    And so, the question is- why has it been so incredibly difficult to find money for equipment installed in weeks for Brexit over the past 2 years? And how does the cost of the equipment and software compare with the £39bn that Mr Hammond is so keen to pay for projects like the EU army, the Youth corps and entry of other poor countries ?

  47. a-tracy
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Let’s not over-egg this and call it warfare, I’ve listened to stories this weekend about the results of warfare, young men and family men mainly dying in fields and women and children at home being blown to smithereens because of leaders in their offices not being able to reach an accord that suits both parties.

    May and her remain heavy cabinet are simply doing their Masters bidding and it proves how much control the EU does indeed have over the UK and our freedom to our own sovereign decisions and rights to trade on the terms we choose with the world, when their deputy assistant to Barnier gloats in their press how weak we are as a nation. Would you want to be in this cabinet John! How can Gove, Leadsome and other leavers tolerate this withdrawal agreement being presented and hoping other people vote it down because they don’t have the bottle or is it an ability to?

    • L Jones
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

      A-tracy – it’s hard not to become a conspiracy theorist with such events as this swirling around us. The EU and its masters seem to appear more and more sinister, with their snidely superior remarks and knowing gloats and grins, kisses and mutual fondles -quite disturbing. And obviously flexing their muscles with the ‘threat’ of an EU army. And our Government is actually attempting to hand our country over to them. OUR GOVERNMENT!

      Who on earth in their right mind still wants us to remain ruled by this menacing bunch? (And perhaps that could describe our Government as well as the EU.) Surely only those with something to gain.

      I think we should be afraid – not just annoyed.

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

      You are probably correct that this is all about doing their Masters bidding, however I would argue that those Masters are not the EU, but those who fund the political party of which the current government are members. Ask yourself what sort of arrangement those who write large cheques to party funds would like to see, and what they might ask of the Prime Minister and others at the private dinners that those cheques buy you access to.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

        Peter Parsons

        I hope you aren’t seriously trying to claim that the EU aren’t “bought” off by big corporations? Especially as some of the worlds largest banks payrolled the Remain campaign

        • Peter Parsons
          Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

          Not at all. I’m suggesting that maybe the people who write 5 figure and 6 figure cheques to Conservative party funds and gain privileged and secret (in terms of the conversations which take place) access to those at the top of the Conservative party as a consequence may well be influencing direction and policy. “He who pays the piper calls the tune.”

    • mancunius
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

      The EU has already declared (Weyand and then Barnier yesterday) that any future agreement must incorporate the current terms: continued subjection to the CU, ECJ laws, and complete regulatory convergence and no-competition rules. And a virtual border within the United Kingdom itself.

      Barnier: “the future trading relationship would be based on Britain remaining in a permanent customs union with the bloc.”
      Weyand (addressing the EU Ambassadors): “We would be in the best negotiation position for the future relationship. This requires the customs union as the basis of the future relationship… They must align their rules but the EU will retain all the controls. They apply the same rules. UK wants a lot more from future relationship, so EU retains its leverage.

      Which is why this ‘agreement’ has already been rejected by the court of British public opinion. And will be by Parliament.

    • margaret howard
      Posted November 16, 2018 at 11:28 am | Permalink

      atracy

      ” rights to trade on the terms we choose with the world,”

      As we did before we begged the EU to become a member? We did so badly that we had to endure the ignominy of going to the IMF with a begging bowl.

      The irony is that Germany backed our application after de Gaulle’s repeated ‘NON’ and no doubt have reason to regret their decision now with all the vile abuse heaped on them by our odious right wing press.

      And incidentally the Common Market had to pump in 25% of its regional development funds to stabilise the nation after we joined, the highest ever figure.

      All forgotten now.

      Reply We begged the IMF as a member of the EU given the damage membership did to our industry

    • margaret howard
      Posted November 17, 2018 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

      a-tracy

      “May and her remain heavy cabinet are simply doing their Masters bidding and it proves how much control the EU does indeed have over the UK and our freedom to our own sovereign decisions”

      Well, it wasn’t the EU but our ‘special relationship’ American cousins who dragged us into an illegal war in Iraq and all the other Middle East military adventures that have destabilised the region and resulted in millions of terrified refugees flooding into Europe.

      America says ‘jump’ and we say ‘how high’ – nothing to do with the EU.

      • a-tracy
        Posted November 21, 2018 at 11:37 am | Permalink

        margaret, I choose to believe JR over your assertations. You have nothing good to say about the UK at all, every post is anti-Britain and its people.
        The EU has a habit of not paying their fair share of GDP into world protection via Nato, therefore America, France and the UK are called upon more unfairly than most others to get involved with peacekeeping and regime changes (not always to the public’s agreement).
        The Americans are indeed our Cousins, as you have pointed out to me before, our ancestors went to the Americas to make part of our Empire and share our considerable advancements of the Industrial Age. Even though our Governments and taxes were kicked out in their choice of Independence they’re still our blood relatives and speak our language.

  48. Richard1
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Are you sure Labour will vote against? If I was them and I saw the warfare in the Tory party as a result of this I’d abstain to let it through and watch the Tories tear themselves apart. I think some Labour MPs will support it and many will abstain. Let’s see. Dangerous times – if that happens it means Conservative MPs should have ditched Mrs May whilst they had a chance.

  49. Chris
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    I see Shailesh Vara, Northern Ireland Minister and Tory MP for N W Cambridgeshire has resigned over May’s deal and pretence that it represents Brexit:
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1045631/Brexit-news-Shailesh-Vara-quits-nothern-ireland-minister-theresa-may-brexit-deal

    Where are the others?

    • Adam
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

      If the land border between Northern Ireland & Ireland is such a problem, perhaps we should pay for Irish navvies & volunteers to dig a canal along the border as a solution.

  50. Simon Stanton
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    I am so angry, we voted out and we have been ROBBED how can democracy still work. I want to tear down Parliament and all it represents as it has now shown us that it’s NOT FOR THE PEOPLE but for the rich that run it and our country

  51. Oggy
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Marvellous and ironic isn’t it ?, we are all now hoping Corbyn and co will vote against this appalling betrayal of a deal and possibly, if we are lucky be rid of May in the process.

    John, the gutless behaviour of the cabinet last night has infuriated the country. We will not forget their inaction and hence complicity in allowing this to happen.

    Appalling May is an absolute disgrace, her barefaced lies, deceit and treachery are simply breathtaking, she will go down as the worst Prime Minister in history.

  52. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Te sudden drop in the pound sterling this morning came right after Dominic Raab’s resignation. So it must be Raab-correlated, not brexit correlated! 🙂 🙂

  53. Ruiss
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    It is not a withdrawal agreement as we are not withdrawing and the Conservatives are not conservative, is their a correlation?

  54. The PrangWizard
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    There’s no point in attempting to divert attention away from the creator of all our difficulties, all the subversion and deceit and blatant lies starts and ends with Theresa May. She is a Europhile, she is more concerned with protecting the EU than the UK. She is one of theirs. How long can she continue to be supported? The Conservative party is stuffed full of limp wristed cowards, all talk and no action.

    And we have spineless, now exposed as fake Leavers, cabinet members. Listening to their whining now, after the event, is sickening. Will they now vote for the Agreement, one supposes so.

    We have MPs who say they are opposed to the deal but how many will cave in, as the cabinet members have? Just how many betrayers and traitors are there? Party and person before country, again?

  55. libertarian
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Congratulations

    May has succeeded in uniting the country………. against her and the Conservative Party

    We have crossed the Rubicon

    No one can now not realise that our “democracy” is broken beyond repair and now needs a total and radical overhaul

    As Douglas Carswell said on Twitter this morning. Anyone forming a democratic party managed from the members and supporting radical reform of the House of Lords, The Civil Service and our “democratic” systems would win big

    The Conservative party is now as dead as a dodo. It has been uncovered for what it is a branch of the civil service oligarchy , incompetent, spineless and totally lacking in principles

    The next few days are going to be a “bloodbath” on all sorts of levels

    • margaret howard
      Posted November 16, 2018 at 11:34 am | Permalink

      “As Douglas Carswell said on Twitter this morning. Anyone forming a democratic party managed from the members and supporting radical reform of the House of Lords, The Civil Service and our “democratic” systems would win big”

      Will he try? All he has done so far is switch parties, from Conservative to UKIP and to independent.

      Maybe he might get somewhere when he has decided who to go for.

      At the moment it seems to be he prefers looking after NUMERO UNO.

  56. Chris
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    I see Dominic Raab has now resigned. I have been very disappointed in Raab up till now and felt he had willingly gone along with the deception and betrayal of the electorate by May. However, finally, he has acted with some honour. About time.

  57. Paul Cohen
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    An aspect of Mrs May’s style is her obduracy and repeating her mantras over and over until the audience is comatose, and now a danger to the nation who are totally switched off by this stage. She also trips herself up by making contradictory statements (lies) which she trusts will pass unnoticed .

    Good for Dominic Raab who has just resigned – lets trust there will be many more. to prevent us sinking into eventual European dominance.

  58. Edward2
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    I see Raab has just resigned.
    Things will happen very quickly now.

    Fortunately the chances of this dreadful deal being approved by Parliament are very low.

  59. George Brooks
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    The Prime Minister should be ashamed of herself as this whole deceitful charade unfolds. Alternatively if I am wrong then she is far too gullible to lead this government and should go.

    David Davis was pushed out of the way as he knew that the EU had no intention of reaching any agreement so was laying the plans for a ”no deal” result. She took the helm (a negotiating no no) then procrastinated for months until she produced Chequers. Then wasted another 3 months so that she could stand outside No 10 and blackmail us as she did last night.

    Back my agreement or don’t leave atall. If she gets her way it will be the end of the United Kingdom as we know it today, democracy will be severely damaged and the Conservative party will disappear

    What a record to go down in history for a supposedly God fearing lady.

  60. rick hamilton
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    Clearly Theresa May cannot control her civil servants and since they are on the same side as the EU she was destined to fail from day one.

    Some are born to fail, some achieve failure and others have failure thrust upon them………………

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

      Her top Brexit adviser Olly Robbins was with her at the Home Office and she brought him over to control the new Department for Exiting the EU for her when David Davis was the minister, then transferred him to work for her directly in Number 10.

  61. Glenn Vaughan
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    A BREXIT “deal”? Up with this we should not put.

  62. robert lewy
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    It is now clear that Dominic Raab waited to read John Redwood’s blog this morning before making the correct decision.

  63. Mark J
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    To sum up my current thoughts, “disgusted”.

    What on earth has Theresa May being doing for the last three years since the Referendum result? That should have been more than enough time to come up with a “good deal”.

    Instead the whole deal has been akin a University student who started their dissertation a week before the deadline. Lazy, last minute, poorly planned, poorly researched, not the best that could be delivered and hurried at the eleventh hour as the deadline looms In my humble opinion, that is how it comes across.

    What could have been a “golden opportunity” has been screwed.

    I therefore vote for “no deal”, as this better than the current deal.

  64. Kenneth
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    The referendum has not been honoured and the somehow the people who negotiated on our behalf came up with one of the worst possible outcomes.

    Whether it was incompetence or some other reason, Mrs May should be sacked as soon as possible (hopefully this week) and removed from the Conservative Party.

  65. Sakara Gold
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    So farewell then, Dominic Raab. I am astounded at this outbreak of principled politics, with senior cabinet ministers falling on their swords over May’s handing of the Brexit negotiations!

    Of course, the real reason the EU is desperate to keep us in some sort of extended relationship with them is that they fear the effect on other EU member states when they see the upift to prosperity in the UK when we get to spend the contributions on our domestic economy.

  66. Andy
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    I remember that great day in November 1990.

    I was sat in my A level politics class and heard the fabulous news that Margaret Thatcher had quit.

    How we cheered! She was gone – the world was already a better place.

    The Tories have never recovered. They’ve barely had an overall majority since.

    Today feels a lot like that day – except this time we know the Tories are never coming back.

    • Richard1
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

      Dream on. Quite likely is we have WTO Brexit with a new PM – I think my support will go to Michael Gove as he has the imagination and drive to have a coherent non-Brexit agenda also.

      It will become apparent by say May/June 2019 that there was no cliff edge, the EU will decide not to have a tomato and insulin blockade, nor to engage in a trade war, & the govt will have a nice spare £39bn from they leaving present which we will no longer have to give to the EU. Should pay for a few tax cuts and other goodies. Couple that with some other sensible policies like cancel HS2, join TPP and NAFTA and confidence may be at such a level we can have an election in autumn 2019. Socialism will be crushed for good and global Britain will be a new voice for independent accountable democracy and free trade.

      • L Jones
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

        And Andy will be VERY disappointed.

    • Steve
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

      Andy
      “….this time we know the Tories are never coming back.”

      On this we can agree.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

      I have never known a guy get things so consistently arse about face. The Tories were never forgiven for ditching Thatcherism.

    • Student
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

      Finally we can date how old you actually are, and it isn’t as young as you like to portray in your previous posts. You must be at least 44?!

  67. Ruiss
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Hey everyone, insanely easy money to be right now on Forex, trading the London breakout was just buying money, easy peasy. Everyone should have took the day off work today just to do that. Interestingly the Euro initially dropped by stablised while GDP is falling off a cliff.

  68. Original Richard
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    This withdrawal agreement is a betrayal of the Conservative Party members, a betrayal of the Conservative Party’s manifesto pledges and a betrayal of the country.

    It is a greater loss of sovereignty than EU membership as triggering article 50 did not require the consent of the EU.

    This is the EU and its UK collaborators attempting to punish the UK.

    I have not bought any French agricultural products since 1990 when French farmers set fire to one truckload of live British sheep, killing 219 of them as well as poisoning, slitting throats and dousing others with insecticide.

    I will be extending this action to other EU products where possible in order to reduce our massive trading deficit with the EU.

    • Gary C
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

      @ Original Richard

      Re: “I will be extending this action to other EU products where possible in order to reduce our massive trading deficit with the EU.”

      Our household has done this for some time now, while our government may wish to feed the parasitic EU with our hard earned money we prefer not to.

  69. Pete Else
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    This is an absolutely predictable result of the Conservative Party electing a Remainer to enact Brexit. It was blindingly obvious that no matter what lies May told to the electorate she intended to sell us out. Everybody in Britain should take note that our so called representatives, even the ones that claim to be pro Brexit, allowed this to happen, indeed they worked to enable it. There is not a single one of the major political parties that actually carry out the wishes of the people they claim to represent. It’s a total sham designed to keep us believing that the ruling elite are not our slave masters. Anyone that can’t see the truth now really is brainwashed and blinded.

  70. AndyC
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    It’s hard to put the depth of dismay and contempt I have for this deal, and its architects/supporters, into words. Truly an act of sedition. A national humiliation on a par with Suez, if not worse, because this has been planned by ‘our’ own government in collusion with a foreign power. If only we had a head of state who felt able to properly uphold her coronation oath.

    But it’s not too late. There is time for the government to change tack and organise an orderly WTO exit. Under different leadership of course. Raab’s going today was a good start, but the PCP needs to act and act now. If not today, when?

  71. Edwardm
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    You clearly state serious concerns about Mrs Mays proposals, which I am sure are shared by most people. Thank you for your determination to stand up for our country and our desire to be free of foreign control.
    Our country now depends on good people like yourself, to tackle the conniving Mrs May and those who back her.

  72. fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    Just seen a tweet from Sourbry. She says the problem has been a party that’s not united!! My God, she should know all about that. She has been against her own party over Brexit from the beginning. The woman should be shown the door. Nice to see Esther has resigned.

  73. Owen Francis
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    It is not clear to me what the implications the withdrawal agreement would have for our ability to make new trade deals with non-EU countries. This is one key thing surely. Please could you comment on that.

    • Owen Francis
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

      I note that my query has been answered in an earlier comment

  74. LondonBob
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Been obvious for a while the strategy of the civil service was to run down the clock and then try to foist a lousy deal on the public claiming this was the best option in the time frame available. Still time if she goes today.

  75. GilesB
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Remain is a better option than this deal. At least we’d be able to try again another day. This deal gives NOTHING

    • Original Richard
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

      The next treaty will not contain Article 50.

  76. Chris
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    The tally of resignations so far, according to Guido:

    UPDATE: Gone as of 10:25am:

    Northern Ireland Minister Shailesh Vara

    Downing Street Director of Legislative Affairs Nikki Da Costa

    DExEU Secretary Dominic Raab

    DWP Secretary Esther McVey

    DExEU Minister Suella Braverman

    PPS to the Education Ministers Anne Marie Trevelyan

  77. Martin
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Clearly the whole point of May’s years of time wasting was always to arrive at the point when a second referendum could be called and the “correct” outcome obtained the next time round. But we knew that all along, the EU has done this so often to reverse referendum votes that it comes as no surprise. Or at least it shouldn’t for anyone with two functioning brain cells to rub together. It will of course mean the end of the Tory Party. But clearly that minor inconvenience pales into insignificance compared with the absolute necessity to remove the UK as any kind of threat to the supremacy of the European super state. The only question then is: why has May not already been removed to the Tower of London for her treachery?

  78. dennisambler
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Has this whole thing really been about making leaving look so bad, that everyone says we would be better off staying in? You must now Vote Again and come up with the right answer this time.

  79. ChrisS
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    All credit to Dominic Raab and Esther McVey for resigning. Let’s hope more ministers stand up and be counted.

    The only questions are :

    1. Has the PM any chance of getting this shabby deal through Parliament ? ( I think not )
    2. Can we turn this deal down and still avoid a second referendum ? ( Maybe )
    3. Can there be a change of PM without a protracted leadership contest at this time ? ( ? )

  80. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    I heard your reaction to your prime-minister’s statement in parliament this morning.
    Your opinion that the 39bn is not legally required is NOT the UK’s opinion, as was clear from her reply.

    • Jagman84
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

      It is more about desire than legality. May wishes to give away £39bn to a bunch of chancers in the EU, even though Mr Redwood is correct in his position.

  81. ian
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    It a promised deal for big businesses, banking, financial investment and insurance and so on, this will be umpteen time the service industry has been offered to be let into Europe service sector if the government sign up to a treaty with the EU, they have to be in the customs union to be allowed into Europe, that the deal, transport is going to be in the CU and will be controlled by the EU, that your planes, road, rail and shipping with ports, more taxes in the CU, Vat, the EU are taking over the rate that is charged which is at 20% at the moment, taking over company tax and setting the rate which is at 19% at the moment and also investment taxes like share tax and so on.

    Big businesses have four weeks to persuade MPs in the HOC to sign up to the deal, some, of course, will already be on board, I think the deal has a good chance of going through the HOC with businesses backing but I do not think they know what they are actually signing up to and just looking at the bits that get them into Europe.

  82. ChrisS
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    An excellent statement in the house with a surprisingly supportive intervention from the Speaker.

    Mrs May seems as wedded as Hammond to the “obligations” to pay the £39bn, despite the legal advice to the contrary obtained by the House Of Lords.

    I’m mystified as to how can these two diametrically opposed legal opinions can be reconciled ?

  83. davies
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    There has to be something fundementally wrong when we hear stories of EU Officials gloating that they have broken the United Kingdom. I haven’t read the detail as I don’t have the time at the moment.

    I am no doubt sure there are plenty others who will be able to suummarise what it all means in due course

    All this to maintain 7% of GDP on goods and a massive £95 PA trade deficit and pay £39BN for the priveledge.

    Our Civil Service & Political class are geniuses I must say.

    • hans christian ivers
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      davies

      we spend more than we earn whether this is with the Eu or other countries is neither here nor there

    • Steve
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

      davies

      “There has to be something fundementally wrong when we hear stories of EU Officials gloating that they have broken the United Kingdom.”

      War words eh?

      Bring it.

  84. Chris
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    There is what I consider to be a very significant letter in the D Tel today by Major Mike McKone (retired), with supporting comments. The key phrase is:
    “As a lifelong Conservative, I would rather risk a Corbyn government than support the proposed “deal”.”

    Matthew Biddlecombe in the comments section responds to the above statement:
    “…..and therein lies a problem. I believe that there has been some arrogant thinking amongst the Conservative hierarchy that we would not allow a Corbyn government to enter No. 10 via the back door.
    Like the Major, I too am prepared to risk a Corbyn government rather than to be a vassal state tied to the apron strings of the ugly behemoth the the EU has become.”

    Mr Redwood, do you think Government, and Tory MPs are actually aware of this? Anger is so huge that there are many who will simply not vote Conservative, and there are also some former Cons supporters apparently who will now actually vote Labour. Quite extraordinary what this PM is on target to achieving: the destruction of Brexit, the break up of the UK, the completion of the EU project to make the UK a vassal state for eternity, and the destruction of the Cons Party.

    • Paul H
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

      I am one of those who is planning to vote for Corbyn if the chance arises. Much as I fear and loathe Corbyn and his crew, I fear and loathe being locked in the EU more. Corbyn at least has the advantage that he actually wants to leave the EU – and, who knows, he may actually prevail. As a minimum I am tired of the puerile blackmail that tells me I have to take whatever the Tory party throws at me because the other side is worse. No politician can be allowed to believe that threat will always work.

      I am a “natural” Tory voter; I am being perfectly serious.

      • Chris
        Posted November 16, 2018 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

        Well, on reading many comments in the blogosphere, I suggest you are certainly not alone. I really do not believe that CHQ realise the extent and depth of the anger at May and those betraying Brexit. Even if they did realise, they would assume, such is their arrogance, that those saying they would vote for Corbyn would not actually carry out their threat. A supreme irony would be if Corbyn spotted the opportunity and after having voted down May’s deal, he actually campaigned in a forced election to leave the EU properly. He would win easily.

  85. Iain Moore
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Its reported ……

    ” The former Brexit secretary didn’t see the deal until almost the very last moment. “He was fed up because he had been cut out of the process…” ”

    How is this possible? Raab was supposed to be the Secretary of State for the Department for Exiting the European Union, yet it is stated he hadn’t seen the detail of the agreement his department was supposed to be negotiating with the EU.

  86. ian
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    I think you already know that the arm forces and security services will be handed over to the EU with their budgets and increases in the budget for them will be set by the EU and paid by uk taxpayers.

  87. ian
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    It is not in the document but thinks you know it is a given.

  88. a-tracy
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    You Leave MPs gave the remain Conservatives a majority in the Cabinet to calm the public that both sides of the debate would get a fair say.

    Well, as Chukka Ummuna said when he spoke to Sky News this morning, echoing the derision in his earlier tweet. “So many people will find this very distasteful because here you have got people like Dominic Raab who were architects of the mess and the chaos that we’re seeing right now, walking off the field leaving others to clear up the mess that they’ve created”.

    So its time now for a majority Leave team, minority Remain team, in the Cabinet because May couldn’t negotiate what she said she was negotiating. A majority of the Leave MPs in the Cabinet would point out to the EU that there will be no capitulation over May’s previous red lines and no extension to an 20XX extension date because we will not have control without any say; a new deal or no deal, once again the EU have asked for just too much. If they hadn’t made that mistake with Cameron in the first place I doubt the majority Leave vote would have won the referendum

    • Al
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

      I am not sure the composition of the Cabinet matters. It is becoming clear, first with Chequers and now this, that Ms. May is handling the negotiations herself with certain civil servants and expects the Cabinet to provide rubber-stamps and scapegoats.

  89. Treacle
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    This deal makes me, for the first time, ashamed to be British. The deal is a national humiliation. The EU are taking an eye-wateringly large sum of money, giving us nothing, and laughing at us. And all because of one obstinate woman who has deceived her colleagues and the nation, and has reneged on all her promises and her manifesto.

  90. English Pensioner
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand what is happening (and I suspect that I’m not the only one).
    We were originally told we would exit totally if there was no deal, but now Mrs May is saying that if MPs don’t agree to her deal and there is no deal, we stay in the EU and Keir Starmer on behalf of Labour agrees.
    What happened to “No deal is better than a bad deal”?

    • Steve
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

      English Pensioner

      “What happened to “No deal is better than a bad deal ?”

      Ah well you see that is what’s commonly acknowledged as being a big fat LIE, told by a big fat LIAR.

      Politicians, especially the backstabbing pro-EU sissies, are infamously known for the quality of their lies.

      These despots cannot fight, they’re natural born cowards who hide themselves in ivory towers while resorting to the tactics of betrayal, lying, and general shysterism.

  91. NickW
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Given that the agreement consists, (so I hear) of over 500 pages;how on earth can the Cabinet fully discuss and consent to the content in hours?

    The purpose of 500 page documents is to conceal the truth; the nasty bits will be well hidden and will only be revealed once the document is signed.

    Has May taken a leaf out of Nancy Pelosi’s book, (US Medicare “You have to sign the document to find out what is in it”!

    What needs to be in a document like this is a sunset clause, so that the agreement can end if it turns out to be harmful. Parliament should take its time and ignore any pressure, in order to fully understand the nature of the agreement.

    The British neither trust Europe, nor their Government to negotiate in good faith; there are not, unfortunately enough Redwoods and Moggs in Parliament to properly hold the Government to account.

  92. Mark
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    I note Guy Verhofstadt has come out in favour of the deal, which tells us he doesn’t expect to vote on it in the EU Parliament, where he was sure to oppose any deal on principle, before securing some amendment to waive it through at the second attempt, and thus demonstrate his “influence”.

    What I have read of it so far offers no guarantees that the EU will not legislate in ways that are to the disadvantage of the UK, with us being required to implement whatever they decide: it asks us to sign our own death warrant. The EU have demonstrated they are completely untrustworthy, leaving us in Article 7 permanent punishment with no vote.

    Given that Article 50 contains the provision to extend our membership via unanimous agreement of the Council, it is of vital importance that May has no mandate to apply for that while we have the withdrawal enshrined in UK law. It is clear that that is now her direction of travel. We must exit and renegotiate, with a team that is set on securing improvements to a no deal exit. Article 50 requires the EU to negotiate a deal, whether we have left or not, until a deal is in place. In order to get the team to do that, we need to replace May, and the civil servants who think it appropriate that we should be subservient to the EU for evermore.

  93. Zorro
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Well JR, I can award the first prize for the ultimate Project FEAR comment to Matt Hancock who, if the Daily Mail is correct, stated to the Cabinet that he could not guarantee that people would not die as a result of a ‘no deal brexit’… 😏…. You see, if only we could have stayed in the EU we would have had life eternal….

    zorro

  94. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Time to step up and be part of it!

  95. The PrangWizard
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    Have been watching the House.

    Have you put your letter in to the 1922 committee, Mr Redwood?

  96. am
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    This will move to no-Brexit.

  97. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    The Telegraph reports that today’s Irish Times has this front page headline:

    “Victory in Dublin, chaos in London”

    Well, I find that in fact it was the Irish Examiner, not the Irish Times:

    https://subscriber.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/custompages/IrishExaminer/subscribe.aspx

    but no matter, it is a fair representation of what Theresa May has done to us.

    Meanwhile a rather lesser publication, the Maidenhead Advertiser, has printed the most recent letter that I sent:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/13/the-pound-bounces-around/#comment-972913

    and I will just reproduce the last paragraph:

    “For sure we would have to be stupid to think that the Irish government would ever willingly allow us to free ourselves from the rules of the EU Customs Union and the EU Single Market once we had agreed to remain bound by them on a “temporary” basis, as Theresa May now wants us to do.”

    And indeed this analysis in the Irish Times agrees with that:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/brexit-deal-commits-uk-to-indefinite-stay-in-customs-union-1.3697565

    “Brexit deal commits UK to indefinite stay in customs union”

    “… during that interim period, the UK as a whole will remain in a customs union, perhaps indefinitely. And there will be special regulatory alignment measures for the North to tighten protection of the EU single market.”

    “British prime minister Theresa May has also reportedly agreed to “level playing field” measures tying Britain to EU rules in areas such as state aid and environmental and workers’ rights protections during the backstop. What has become clear is that UK negotiators accept the logic that any future relationship deal will also have to be based on a customs union agreement, supplemented by many of the regulatory requirements of the single market.”

    “Briefing EU ambassadors on the proposed deal on Monday, EU deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand is reported to have admitted as much … ”

    “The implication is the backstop is permanent and the UK will stay in the customs union forever.”

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

      JR, Theresa May keeps saying that we will be free from the jurisdiction of the ECJ and we will take back control of our borders, that is we could put an end to the EU’s free movement of persons; but is it not the ECJ which acts as the referee on that “level playing field” mentioned in the article, and has not the right of free movement been elaborated and expanded through the case law of the ECJ? So how long would it be before that EU supreme court started handing down judgments to restore the status quo ante, except of course that we would not supply any of its judges?

    • Timaction
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

      Enough said. Time for an election or action! Traitors one and all!

  98. Nigel
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    It is ironic that this proposed agreement comes almost 100 years after the Treaty of Versailles. We seem to be on the other side this time.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

      I thought that too. Those in Berlin must be chuckling heartedly to themselves.

    • hans christian ivers
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

      Nigel

      What a real load of nonsense, did you actually read the Versailles document?

      • zorro
        Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

        sore point hans?

        zorro

  99. VotedOut
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps we should just leave on 29th March 2019 – like we voted for …

    It would be very helpful, and perhaps less stressful to them if most MP’s got over it, and did what the people told them to do. That’s democracy.

    Radical thing I know

  100. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    I can no longer bear to watch Theresa May on TV, JR, and also I can no longer say what I think about her in anything like polite language, so I will just note here that she started off mechanically repeating “Brexit means Brexit” but she is now threatening that she will stop Brexit altogether unless we accept the capitulation which is her version of Brexit.

    So I am concerned that when you write:

    “Parliament has already legislated to leave on 29 March 2019. It would require new legislation to amend and repeal the EU Withdrawal Notification Act and the EU Withdrawal Act to stop us leaving next March.”

    you may be missing the possibility that she could connive to keep us in the EU.

    Firstly the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/9/contents/enacted

    is not relevant because it only empowered the Prime Minister to send in the Article 50 withdrawal notice, it did not set any date for withdrawal.

    Secondly as I have mentioned before:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/10/25/the-expansion-of-china/#comment-969074

    “… it would only need a resolution passed by both Houses to allow a minister to make a regulation amending the exit day specified in the Act, and I can visualise most Tory MPs and peers eagerly voting for such a resolution if Theresa May decided to defer our withdrawal either for a stated period or indefinitely.”

    And almost all the Labour and other opposition MPs as well; even if most Tory MPs voted solidly to block the resolution and keep the planned exit day of March 29th 2019 Theresa May could, and no doubt would, turn to the opposition MPs to support it.

    Arguably by uttering that threat she made a leadership challenge inevitable.

  101. mancunius
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    I see Michael Gove says he wants to negotiate further with the EU as Brexit Secretary.
    Of course, we’ve already had this ‘renegotiating’ caper. Wilson engaged to ‘renegotiate’ with the EU if we elected him in 1974. The effect of his ‘renegotiations’ – despite the smoke and mirrors – was nil.
    Corbyn has also suggested he might ‘renegotiate’. (First of all, of course, he’d need to renegotiate with his party exactly what his and their positions are.)

    I think, given Gove’s track record so far, I’d prefer him to negotiate on the EU’s behalf.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

      He may want a little more. There is nothing left to negotiate.

  102. Mike Wilson
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    I’d rather Remain and do without a UK government at all – rather than have this sorry mess. No point in the Westminster parliament. They are irrelevant. Let’s save ourselves some money and let the EU run the whole show.

    • sm
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

      How about shutting down Strasbourg and Westminster, then shift the whole EU kit and caboodle from Brussels to Aachen (where Charlemagne was crowned), search out a Hapsburg with nothing much on his plate and re-install the Holy Roman Empire with no further ado?

  103. L Jones
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    That those ‘in power’ should still style themselves (or allow themselves to be so styled) as Remainers is quite shameful.
    After a conclusive vote from the people, they have no right to style themselves anything but Leavers, and to work for that end.
    As long as they also fight for the good of their constituents then that is what is required of them. They should NOT be attempting to undermine the lawful will of the majority in a nationwide vote.
    Considering the fact that the majority of constituencies voted ‘leave’ then there are an awful lot of Parliamentary representatives who think their own EU views trump those of their own ‘little people’.

    (We have one in our constituency – he has lost my Conservative vote, and probably many others.)

  104. ian
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Just watched Mrs May conference and she is full of her self, she seems to think it will be the right wing of the party that loses and seems to be looking forward to getting rid of your lot out of her party of wets, how do you feel about that.

  105. Dennis
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    So John

    How do we get the proper Brexit voted for?

  106. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Some of the MPs who are being wheeled out for interviews on TV are clearly not fit to be in Parliament, or maybe even on a local council. There is one Tory MP in particular who is so thick that he keeps banging on about EFTA and the EEA as a solution even though he has been told before that:

    NORWAY IS NOT IN A CUSTOMS UNION WITH THE EU

    and

    THE IRISH GOVERNMENT HAS EXPRESSLY REJECTED EVEN THE KIND OF “LIGHT TOUCH” CUSTOMS BORDER WHICH OPERATES BETWEEN NORWAY (EFTA/EEA) AND SWEDEN (EU/EEA).

    It is understandable that ordinary folk who are busy with the problems of their own lives may not understand all the complexities of the relations between European countries and may not even be aware that there is a customs border between Norway and Sweden, but is inexcusable for a highly paid full time MP to have such a gap in his basic knowledge, and moreover to make misleading public statements based on his ignorance, and moreover to carry on doing so even when he has had his error politely pointed out to him and proved beyond any contestation with indisputable evidence.

    • rose
      Posted November 16, 2018 at 12:37 am | Permalink

      How many of the socialist women got up a hue and cry in the House against “Gibraltar being dragged out of the Customs Union”?

  107. a-tracy
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    Just turned off C4 news because of the constant shouting behind interviews, yesterday they allowed the banners behind every interview today we have the shouters, it’s a shame it’s the main news program after I get home.

  108. Rien Huizer
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,

    Mrs May’s performence was pretty good. I do not know hos but something tells me she is going to get her way. And the ERG will have a bit of a problem. Maybe next time, in thirty years, if you can find someone to carry the USUK torch.

  109. Freeborn John
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Good article in the Guardian today. And if as seems possible that the 48+ letters will be in during the next 24 hours then congratulations for showing initiative to bring down the most incompetent prime minister in living memory.

  110. Owen Francis
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    Yes we can leave with no deal. But this now seems to be becoming impossible politically because of the public perception of the risk.

    Why don’t we just stay and fight to improve and limit the EU from within, there will be the the support from other countries which we know exists because of diverse dissatisfactions.

    This might be palatable to leave voters if they could see that the resources of the leave politicians and campaign groups were firmly focused on such a “lotta continua”.

  111. Caterpillar
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    So Leadsom, Fox and G ove sit tight, 48 letters aren’t sent, looks like the withdrawal agreement will go through and the UK will not have cleanly left. The elite aligned with the marching mob have won against democracy. It is difficult to not expect direct action and worse in the coming decade as people become exasperated at no identity and no democracy. I confess that I am scared of the future as the UK goes along with this route.

  112. Andy
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    Many members of the ERG want to replace Mrs May as PM.

    If they have the numbers (which is doubtful) they can have one of their own in No10 with the backing of a few tens of thousands of mainly elderly men. The wider electorate and population need not be troubled.

    It will be ironic if people who have spent decades complaining about the ‘unelected EU dictatorship’ seize power without an election.

    Certainly they could not seize power in an election. Hardly anyone would vote for them.

    • JustGetOnWithBrexit
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

      Blair to Brown handover ringing any bells for you?

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

      Well if we stop voting Corbyn gets in. That is a genuine concern.

      Hardly an insignificant force.

  113. Chewy
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    The pathetic comment that “this was the best deal on offer” sums Theresa May up. Can you get more a more supplicant like attitude a million miles from the hollow slogan “no deal is better than a bad deal”?
    And who the hell does she think she is saying that all the people who resigned were mistaken. Lost the plot thinking that she is the only fountain of knowledge and wisdom. Let’s hope the middle of the road Conservative MPs can fire up a couple of brain cells and bring this sad circus act to its end.
    Has any British Prime Minister in history proposed such an abject humiliation?

  114. Freeborn John
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    The letters have to go in today. If May survives the next 24 hours without a no confidence vote she will survive and the ERG will look like a busted flush. Strike now or live forever an EU serf.

  115. Christine
    Posted November 15, 2018 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    If you carry on down Teresa May’s road, you will not get re-elected for the foreseeable future and go down in history as the Government that threw away a golden opportunity for this great nation of ours to regain its autonomy. The fact that you have also insulted the people by asking for a decision and then failing to carry out the result of that decision will condemn you forever. How dare you defy the democratic will of the people?
    Teresa May can have NO concept of how we the people feel about this or else she would make way for someone in whom we can have some confidence. And on that score Jacob Rees-Mogg is the only person we can trust and who is the stand out choice for PM.
    Finally, rest assured that if May continues as PM, we will not take this lying down and civil disobedience may follow. Do you really want that to be your legacy?

  116. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted November 16, 2018 at 1:37 am | Permalink

    Following the resignations and your arithmetic, it looks like Mrs May would need the support of at least 100 Labour MPs to get the draft Agreement through the Commons. That seems unlikely.

    Yes, Mrs May, Geoffrey Boycott got lots of runs. But he lost the Yorkshire captaincy because he was too defensive.

    When all the dust settles, it looks like the choices will be:
    – Membership of the EEA. That is the only way to make sense of Labour policy.
    – Exit under WTO rules leading in due course to a Canada plus plus style agreement.

    This choice will have to be made at a General Election. I think that you need a Brexiteers’ Manifesto to be ready, one endorsable by Conservative Eurosceptics, the DUP, Kate Hoey and Co, Nigel Farage and UKIP. This is the right sort of broad church.

  117. Iain Gill
    Posted November 16, 2018 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    The worst bit of Mrs May’s press conference was that none of the journalists asked the questions that the majority of the people would, they were all remoaner style questions. The news channels are still showing vast majority of remainer talking heads.

    Don’t they all realise leave is the majority.

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 16, 2018 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

      MANY Journalists in the UK are becoming like those in the USA only interested in their own personal opinion and views and comments that agree with their world view.

      When was the last time you heard a news anchor ask a question that you thought YES, good question?

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted November 16, 2018 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

      What do you mean by “leave”? Thre are many ways to leave with many different consequences. That should be clear to everyone now.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 17, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

        All your “many ways to leave” end up with the UK not actually leaving.
        Odd that.

      • alan juston
        Posted November 17, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

        Rein

        Perhaps we could ask you how many option there are to remain. given the Eu is passing new laws and rules all the time.

        European Armed forces,
        Further integration
        More common laws and rules
        Single budget for all members
        All members forced to join the Euro
        Increasing budget contributions
        Implementation of the Five Presidents Report.

        The list goes on !

        In favour and happy of all of those are we ?

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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