The Prime Minister’s letter

Mrs May’s first ten points and last point are all ones I want to see happen. The trouble is they do not happen any time soon under the Withdrawal Agreement she wrongly wishes to lock us into and maybe never.
Most of the rest of her points are things that re create many features of the E$U after we have left in ways Leave voters do not wish to do, or vague promises of future co-operation which we can easily enjoy without signing this disastrous Treaty. Some are bizarre – “Gibraltar’s sovereignty protected” – it was not at risk until the last minute concessions – and no hard border in Northern Ireland – I never thought the UK was planning one!

This letter and the further concession on Gibraltar are likely to tip more MPs against this Withdrawal Treaty. I remain strongly opposed.

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178 Comments

  1. Everhopeful
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    Why does the PM write a letter to us? A true deliverance from the EU would require no persuasion, no weasel words. ( And by the way..why on earth would we need to import labour when there are so many young people without jobs? Train them!!)

    • RayK
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

      Everhopeful..all very well but we cannot hope the get the young British out of bed at four o’clock in the morning to fill the boats, work in the fields and start off for the construction sites.. not in anywhere enough numbers

      • Edward2
        Posted November 26, 2018 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

        Rayk
        Big business pays low wages topped up by tax credits and housing benefits.

        Presumably you are happy with this ridiculous situation continuing.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

      Everhopeful. Agree. There are many disabled people who could manage basic jobs but at the moment they don’t get a look in much of the time. They would welcome a job even if it were low paid.

      • David Price
        Posted November 28, 2018 at 6:43 am | Permalink

        Shame the Conservative-Libdem coalition closed the viable Remploy factories which did provide basic and purposeful employment.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

      Perhaps everyone 30 million plus should reply (without stamps) to 10 downing Street and to your local Tory office telling her and them what an appalling and dishonest deal it is and for her to go now. Sound real Conservatives should join the party and kick all the Euphile, tax to death socialists out.

    • old salt
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

      Everhopeful
      That costs money! (Train them)

    • Hope
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

      IDS on Sky TV today won’t vote for it, “more than likely” to vote against it. Sounds like a weak abstention to me. If Tory weaklings abstain it is more likely to pass parliament.

      JR, suggest you have a word in the ear of Tory cowards abstaining. Make a decision.

      May is a liar and dishonest. Most view her plan as the act of a traitor. There is no settled or enforceable future relationship with the EU. Are the Tory lemmings going to follow her into the deep unknown of becoming a permanent EU colony? Claiming it was not me! She should have been got rid of after her disasterous election, then in December last year, then in a July this year, she was prepared to close Parliament early to prevent her demise! Two weeks ago you all could have got rid of her. Gutless party without values conviction or principles.

    • nshgp9
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

      You don’t count. You are expected to pay 60 bn EURs and suffer austerity in the process.

      1 bn pays for 20,000 nurses

      Short and sweet, you don’t need to know any more. Can’t see May talking her way out of that.

  2. Nigl
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Again vague BS that the forensic legal dissections of the Withdrawel Agreement do not support and it will be those that form the battle grounds and ultimately decide our future.

    Relying on wish lists however good the intentions shows how naive Theresa May is.

    • Hope
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

      We were told the 21 month transition was to implement the trade deal. This is not going to happen because May failed to get one, therefore no transition or punishment extension needed or required. May has failed to achieve a trade deal to sign in a nano second after we leave at 11 pm on 29/03/2019.

      Therefore we leave and discuss a trade deal as a self governing sovereign nation without a gun to our head. What does May not understand?

  3. zorro
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    Stupid is as stupid does – this is typical of T May diplomacy- presenting ridiculous and unnecessary concessions as victories against the EU and being strong and stable ™ – utter nonsense, please get rid now!!!

    zorro

    • Timaction
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

      Time for talking is over. Your party needs to rid May now! She is a disaster. This is the worst deal in history and you have lost the right to rule. Election now.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

      Wondering how on earth we mainly voted for this embarrassing dud.
      Lying dud.

    • R.T.G.
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

      Oh, the Grand Old Tory Party,
      It had ten thousand, then,
      It marched us into the EU trap,
      And it marched us out again.
      And when we were trapped, we were in,
      And when we escaped, we were out,
      But now this wretched May’s in charge,
      We are neither in nor out!

  4. Bob Dixon
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    You are strongly opposed. I believe the majority of the population of the U.K. are strongly opposed.

  5. Lifelogic
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Stewart Jackson is surely right in the Telegraph today. The former MP who was chief of staff to David Davis when he was Brexit secretary, warned: “If Downing Street is selling out Gibraltar now before the deal goes through the Commons, then what will she surrender after it’s approved?”

    Hopefully she will be gone and In no position to do any more damage.

  6. Alan Jutson
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    John

    The concessions to the EU will continue for as long as talks last, as long as May is in charge.
    So be prepared for a lot more give away’s over the next few years.

    The simple fact is she is absolutely useless at any sort of negotiation on this scale, and seems to rely totally upon the Sir Humphries (Oily Robbins) of this World who will do anything to avoid confrontation, or which will make more ongoing work for them.

    • Steve
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

      Alan

      Don’t worry, she won’t be in office much longer. Even if she’s not removed and Brady allegedly doesn’t get 48 letters, Corbyn will demand general election and win it by a landslide.

      Millions of die hard conservative voters like myself will switch sides, just to get revenge on miserable cowards.

      They get rid of the sneaky underhanded woman, or she takes them down with her. Either way the lot of them are toast, and at the next election there will be no such thing as the conservative party, it won’t exist.

      • roger
        Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

        As a lifelong tory I will also vote for Corbin. The leeches and parasites feasting on subsidies and green levies, that infest the HoL and Commons have now overplayed their hand and deserve a communist beasting.
        So what if we fall with them. We are again just cannon fodder, expendable and yet again betrayed.
        A plague on both your houses and your real constituencies.

    • Hope
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

      O right minded person would trust her to negotiate the trade deal. We,were promised it would be in place and signed a nano second after we leave. Now we learn discussion will start with an open ended date while a vassal state giving the EU control in the capitulation.

      It is humiliating our nation because of a handful of politico EU fanatics

      • Simon Coleman
        Posted November 26, 2018 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

        If 17.4 million of you believed such a ludicrous promise, then you’ve got yourselves to blame for this mess.

  7. oldtimer
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    The only issue that matters is how many other Tory MP turkeys will join her to vote for the EU’s Christmas dinner (otherwise known as the Withdrawal Agreement)?

    • matthu
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

      IDS: “I would find it very difficult at the moment to vote for the PM’s deal …”

      So what is he waiting for?

    • Bob
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

      @oldtimer

      “how many other Tory MP turkeys will join her to vote for the EU’s Christmas dinner”

      How many more Knighthoods and Peerages will be dished out? Will we be seeing Baroness Leadsome Sir Michael Gove and Lord Grayling?

  8. eeyore
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    I too hope the threat to Gibraltar will make MPs think. Leaving aside the democratic outrage if Gibraltarians’ interests should be bargained away, and leaving aside too the profound strategic dangers of relaxing our grip there, what message would be sent to the rest of the world were Britain shown too feeble to hold such an icon of prestige and power?

    We have made many enemies in the last 300 years. Many more look at us with envy and resentment. The queue to kick us while we are down would be very long indeed.

  9. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Mrs May has put her learnt by heart mantra into a letter but, as you say, totally lacks any specfic dates when her assertions will actually happen. She is never questioned about this and ploughs on regardless. I don’t understand how Conservative MPs have allowed her to continue for so long and bring us to this point. If past experience is anything to go by I have little confidence that she will be challenged. Your party is doomed if she gets her way as is our democracy. Any more knighthoods likely to be distributed? We really do look like a third rate country under Mrs May.

  10. JoolsB
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    But you support her as PM otherwise you’d submit a letter to Graham Brady immediately.

    If only all those Tory MPs who are opposed this appalling surrender deal would put their money where their mouth is. Apparently at least 80 will vote against it and yet Brady can’t even get the numbers to force a vote of no confidence. I have immense respect for the likes of JRM and Steve Baker and the couple of dozen who have sent in those letters but who have been badly let down by the cowards not willing to submit those letters for what reason, God only knows.

    If this deluded woman is allowed to get this document through, they are finished anyway as will be the Tory party.

  11. Michael
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    I dreamt the PM had given Yorkshire away . When will that happen?

  12. JoolsB
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    I see this awful woman has now taken to handing out peerages to mediocre Brexit MPs, John Hayes being the latest. It will be interesting to see how he votes. This woman is shameless and once again proves what a farce the honours system has become. There are now 28 Sirs in the H of C plus a few Dames, add to that the likes of Sir Nick Clegg or Sir Eric Pickles. Time mediocre has been toadying politicians were barred from the honours list for merely doing their jobs. It demeans the whole system for those who truly deserve their honours.

    • Bob
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

      “Time mediocre “has been” toadying politicians were barred from the honours list for merely doing their jobs.”

      Or to be more precise, for not doing their jobs.

      I can’t wait for UKIP to start the clearout of these time servers.

  13. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    I have serious doubts that enough MPs will vote against the withdrawal treaty. Might as well accept the fact we are to be slaves.

  14. Lifelogic
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    The letter is basically just a pack of lies, it will fool almost no one. The appalling agreement that she is idiotically trying to ram through the house gives none of the things she claims for it. Furthermore it will destroy the Conservative party, give power to Corbyn and put the UK in a very weak negotiating position thereafter. Were it an advert it would surely be banned by the advertising authorities. The claim that it “respects the Brexit” vote” is just laughable.

    PMs and politicians seem to be allowed to lie and deceive. Indeed it seems to be the main route to political advancement and later a place in the Lords.

    • Jagman84
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

      May needs to obey and carry out the result of the referendum, not just ‘respect’ it. Fat chance of that with so many influential business people having her ear.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

      We’ve now had Cameron telling us his negotiation was brilliant, and now this dud telling us her deal is the best well get. Maybe third time lucky or do we tip this lot overborrd?

  15. A.Sedgwick
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    I had the misfortune to catch a Remain spokesman on the radio last night, turned out to be FO Minister Duncan who dismissed the 20XX as of no consequence.

    If he had loaned me money and I gave him an IOU to be repaid 20XX, would he accept?

  16. Kenneth
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    The PM’s letter is a con and her withdrawal agreement stinks.

    Shame on the Conservative Party for getting itself mixed up in this shady gang led by the Prime Minister.

    Shame on the BBC and many others in the MSM for pushing false propaganda and encouraging the duplicity and pretence.

    I have enough faith in the British People that we will see these chancers off…but they need something to vote for. Whatever happens, we need a new force in politics – whether that is the re-emergence of the real Conservatives (with the socialist entryists kicked out) or a revived UKIP or a new breakaway Conservative Party.

    This has been nasty exercise in dirty tricks. They will not make fools of us!

    • Timaction
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

      Agreed. Everyone knows and this will destroy the Tory Party forever. Who could ever trust them again. I’m up for any lawful protest to rid ourselves of this awful Government.

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

      I’m amazed we haven’t heard more from Nigel Farage. He did warn us not to trust the Tories or Labour on Brexit. Where are UKIP when we need them?

  17. Frank
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    It is not possible to make the changes that are now in train without there being some unintended consequences, we should have thought about all of this before we started. For instance the constitutional position of NI is now greatly weakened, even in the event of a NO Deal, It is only a matter of time now before demographics take over.

    Then the treaty position of Gibraltar, Utrecht 1713, will also be up for examination again at some point and probably sooner than we think. Spain is in the position of strength now, this is just like a reversal of the talks one hundred years ago that led to the Treaty of Versailles- unintended consequences

    Scotland? who can stand there with hand on heart, and swear that Scotland will still be a part of the UK in say ten, twenty years? Cannot say it is because of unintended consequences- but Brexit certainly will have a good deal to do with it?

    • rose
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

      “we should have thought about all of this before we started. ”

      What on earth makes you think we didn’t? Speak for yourself.

      We have highly intelligent and experienced people with good judgement who could be running this exit but unfortunately a wrong’un was put in charge. We may never know who exactly decided and why, but they have certainly sabotaged not just Brexit bu the country’s future.

  18. Peter Wood
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Once again, may I ask that you leading Brexiteers work together on a common narrative. You have produced a pamphlet and many good arguments, Boris Johnson articulated 6 entirely rational and supportable points in his speech to the DUP, David Davis has a plan, and the ERG has produced a number of well crafted documents. There is also the excellent work by Facts4Eu and not least from Martin Howe QC. Please work together and tell the voting public in clear and succinct terms why May’s plan is a national risk, and offer an alternative.

    • Kenneth
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

      Peter Wood. This has all been done. It is all out there.

      Unfortunately, the media has ignored or ridiculed the Brexit presentations.

      Those sensible moderates who want a clean break from the eu do not have access to the media in the way that the Remain camp do.

      Nothing can be “presented” to the public if the presenters are rendered invisible and silent by the media.

      • Peter Wood
        Posted November 26, 2018 at 12:30 am | Permalink

        Yes I agree that the MSM is biased against Brexit, my point is that a political idea needs political leader who can represent the movement. To give a metaphor, we have a talented band of musicians and what we need urgently is a lead singer.

        Mrs. May is going to get hours of free publicity over the next week or so, Brexit needs a single, powerful counter to her message.

  19. Neil
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    She makes a well publicised, last-minute, concession on Gibraltar, the details of which are unknown, and presents this as protecting Gibraltar’s sovereignty. What parallel universe does this mendacious, deluded woman inhabit? Get rid of her for God’s sake!

  20. Caterpillar
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    W.r.t. the new project fear story that chemicals for water purification will not arrive under a ‘no deal’ Brexit, if this is true this is a national security issue and these should be produced in the UK. An urgent question needs to go to the Dept Environment … to clarify this. There has been two years to prepare for this.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      Also, since the backstop is a key problem and under no deal the UK would have to follow the Most Favoured Nation rules. I suggest that if a technological solution is not in place for the Irish border by end of 2020 then we switch to zero tariffs on all imports until the technological solution is implemented, or if possible, zero tariff on what Ireland wishes to export to UK. Solving the inward solution is up to the UK, solving the outward is Ireland’s problem.

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

      I observe there has been no project fear story about how we won’t be able to get BMW, Audi, VW, Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, Fiat and Volvo cars under no deal situation.
      Aren’t these commodities also at risk?

  21. Andy
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    I particularly like the bit where Mrs May says ‘with Brexit settled’.

    The angry pensioners really are so far out of touch aren’t they?

    They really think this will be settled next March.

    They really need to speak to some younger people.

    My generation and those below overwhelmingly do not want this economically illiterate monstrosity you are imposing on us.

    The reason most of you voted leave – immigration – is non issue for most of us.

    Eventually there will be public inquiries and there will be prison for some.

    Brexit will not be ‘settled’ for the rest of your lives.

    • Al
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

      I suspect the person who is most out of touch is a certain Ms May, the person who is imposing the ‘economically illiterate monstrosity’.

      Leave didn’t impose it, they want to Leave. Remain hate it, because it is not Remain. The concern here has to be that 650 MPs will fail to listen to either the 17M Leave voters or 16M Remain voters all saying ‘no’, and this dreadful mess might get passed!

    • Pudney
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

      Andy, you claim that immigration is the reason most people voted Leave. You also claim that for most people immigration isn’t an issue. Any chance of you posting links to the surveys that informed you of these alleged facts? Or are you just making it up?

    • Original Richard
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

      Remaining in the EU is truly a leap in the dark as how can we know what will happen if we have no control over who governs us and we are without any means to remove them ?

      Remaining would mean we would have no control over our laws, money, borders and assets.

      And no control over our foreign, trade, immigration, travel, welfare or tax policies.

      If the young vote in haste to remain in the EU in a third referendum they will find themselves repenting at leisure.

      Just like those of us who were young in 1975 and who voted overwhelmingly to remain in the Common Market and are now voting to leave a completely different organisation 4 decades later at the first opportunity allowed since 1975.

    • Steve
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

      I voted leave partly because of people like you.

      Why should I have my country’s laws and it’s status decided by those whom I do not elect ?

      And you might be surprised to know that immigration was not the reason so many voted leave. UNCONTROLLED immigration was.

      “My generation and those below overwhelmingly do not want this economically illiterate monstrosity you are imposing on us.”

      Hard luck, you lost the referendum. In democracy, we have democratic vote which means majority rule. There is no obligation to pander to the losing minority.

      Majority rule – live with it, live somewhere else, or exercise your right to object through the ballot box.

    • Jagman84
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

      Only because they have been taken in by all of the BS from the mainstream media. Wisdom comes with age but you seem destined to buck the trend.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

      “economically illiterate monstrosity” ? That’s no way to refer to Mr Corbyn !

    • Jiminyjim
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

      Andy you seem to think that, like the perfidious Mrs May, all you need to do is to keep repeating the same baseless garbage for long enough, and people will start to believe it. I’m afraid it’s nothing more than the way Lord Hawhaw worked in WW2. Your traitrous nonense will be about as effective as Lord Hawhaw, too.

    • rose
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

      Are you doing your homework? Are you reading the agreements and reports?

    • Glenn Vaughan
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

      “Eventually there will be public inquiries and there will be prison for some.” Andy

      Prison? For whom and why? It’s time you put aside your adolescent fantasies, left your parental home and got out into the real world with the adults.

  22. Maybot
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    Why ask us unless a second referendum is in the offing ? MPs are the ones who make the next move.

  23. jerry
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    “the Withdrawal Agreement [Mrs May] wrongly wishes to lock us into and maybe never.”

    Indeed, as written the withdrawal agreement give no incentive for the EU27 to ever agree a trade deal, if in their shoes why would any politico voluntarily allow a (now) vessel state its freedom!

    “and no hard border in Northern Ireland – I never thought the UK was planning one!”

    Nor is Éire I strongly suspect, should there be a hard border it will be built under protest at the behest of the European Commission.

  24. John S
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    I have emailed my MP, Keith Simpson. I referred to Mrs May’s appeal to the public to pressurise their MPs to support her deal. I told him that if this deal is passed by Parliament, I shall reluctantly not be voting Conservative while she is leader, even if that risks a Corbyn government.

    I urge like-minded people to do the same.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

      John S. Already done that and told him I won’t be voting Conservative next time.

    • Original Richard
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

      Yes, all those who support Brexit should now be writing letters to their MP, particularly to those elitist pro EU MPs who have leave voting constituencies.

      Remember that leave won 64:36 by constituency.

      In the long-term leavers should ensure that they never vote again for any pro EU candidate from whichever party they belong and should try to avoid purchasing EU goods wherever possible to help our country reduce its £95bn/year trading deficit with the EU.

    • rose
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

      And if they live in a socialist or liberal constituency to write to their constituency Chairman of the Conservative Association. There will be one, however strong the opposition stronghold.

      • Al
        Posted November 26, 2018 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

        Unfortunately my MP has come out publicly in favour of Ms. May’s proposal. He has tweeted exactly how he intends to vote.

        Fortunately this makes my choice of who to vote for in the next election rather clear.

  25. ian wragg
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    I see she is saving the Fish for the final act.
    No doubt when she has her agreement, any trade deal will be conditional on her giving away our fishing waters. The EU states have already said that.
    Last week she gave away NI, this week Gibraltar, what next, invite the Argies to occupy the Falklands.
    She really is lying when her lips are moving.

  26. Roy Grainger
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    If May’s deal passes, then if the backstop is not to be permanent a trade agreement will have to be negotiated with the EU. Trade agreements with the EU are subject to veto by individual member states. Following her latest inept cave-in May has ensured that Spain can, without any downside to themselves at all (because we remain in the backstop Customs Union in the interim), keep vetoing the trade deal until we make concessions on Gibraltar’s sovereignty. Likewise Ireland now have a strong lever – they will keep vetoing it too to get concessions on Northern Ireland. Likewise Germany, Holland, Denmark and other nations who want access to fishing rights. Whoever is supposed to negotiate that trade deal for us is in an impossible position – one assumes that as less than 48 Conservative MPs think May is doing anything other than a splendid job then it will be her and Robbins.

    Another point for Tory MPs to consider – if May’s deal passes then there is very limited downside to voting for Corbyn at the next General Election as the “level playing field” provisions on state aid will neuter his more extreme economic policies. If the deal passes it’s certainly an option I’ll be taking up though I imagine many former Tory voters and activists and local helpers will take the “abstain” option instead.

  27. Bryan Harris
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Surely the PM is guilty of not just misrepresenting her deal, but misleading Parliament as well?

    Shouldn’t someone in Parliament , or some Parliamentary group, be taking action against her?

    Can the Queen be called on to put a stop to this deceit?

    • Steve
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

      Bryan

      “Can the Queen be called on to put a stop to this deceit?”

      Yes, but clearly she won’t oblige. If she was concerned she’d have cleared out her government some time ago.

      I often ask myself how come the British monarch does not draw the sword as it were to defend the realm.

      I also wonder what the Head of State would do if for example the Russians or Neo Nazis had infiltrated the government en mass. From what we have seen of this country’s betrayal and humiliation at the hands of the conservatives, the answer is obvious – surrender.

      Yet another reason why I shall be voting for Corbyn as an interim measure just to help destroy the conservatives. Then later on vote Nationalist.

      ‘Her Majesty’s Government’ Not mine, not yours, not the people’s – hers. It’s a bit like owning a pack of dogs terrorising the neighbourhood, but when someone gets hurt the owner insists that ‘one doesn’t interfere’ in the way they behave, even though the owner’s name is on their collars. Great cop out eh !

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

      Technically I suppose the Queen could refuse Royal Assent, but that could have been the case in many instances of lost sovereignty in the past 40 years. The broader point is we have evolved a constitutional monarchy to run the country over many centuries, now that institution is being /has been seriously compromised.

  28. Gordon Riby
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    It’s good that many MPs oppose the deal. When does this translate into resolving the issue of lack of effective leadership in the party? When will Mrs May be replaced?

  29. The Quiet Man
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Another betrayal by this government ..
    ‘Hypocritical’ UK Govt to Sign UN Migration Pact Despite Pledge to Control Borders.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

      TQM,

      Yes, we need to not sign this and also to leave EU when we want, otherwise there is no control. US and now Australia have led the way in not signing, at least until there is clear distinction between illegal and legal. The UK Govt needs a rapid and serious rethink on what it is doing.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

      The Quiet Man,
      Yes..thus really making any Brexit pointless and “migration legislation”even more so. Any control of anything will be just a memory.

  30. Alan Jutson
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    If Mrs May gives away anything with regards to Gibraltar to either Spain or the EU then Spain and the EU will have complete control over the entrance to the Mediterranean, as Ceuta on the opposite side of the straits of Gibraltar is controlled by Spain.

    Cetua is indeed the Spanish equivalent to UK held Gibraltar, as they took it from Morocco and have thousands of troops based there.

    Visited Ceuta last year, and they have absolutely no plans to give it back to the Morocco or give up part control.

    • Stred
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

      We should get Donald to move the US fleet and airforce into Gibraltar, just to please Napoleon.

    • FranzB
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

      Alan Jutson, don’t be so naive, just because a person is sitting on a rock on the southern part of Spain doesn’t mean to say he can have control over anything happening at sea. Those day’s are well and truly gone- No merchant sea captain these days is going to pay a blind bit of difference to the antics of naval types sending out routine signal messages- “This is British or Spanish warship- identify yourselves”-
      The Mediterranean is international waters open to all with the right of innocent passage including with right of passage through territorial waters of coastal states.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

        FranzB

        Not naive at all.

        Far better not to allow one Country to be in a position where they can/could control such an area.

        History is littered with examples of, do not worry it will never happen, then low and behold, it does.

        • margaret howard
          Posted November 26, 2018 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

          Alan

          “Far better not to allow one Country to be in a position where they can/could control such an area.”

          Except when it’s the UK? Need all those caves to hide from the rest of the world?

          • Alan Jutson
            Posted November 27, 2018 at 11:20 am | Permalink

            Margaret

            The idea is to be able to trade with the rest of the World not be a puppet state of the EU.

            You seem to forget that we have given up trying to colonise the World, and gave all those Countries who wanted it complete independence.
            Indeed those Countries who we gave freedom to now have more sovereignty and independence than we do ourselves, how ironic is that.

            We just want to be able to govern ourselves and make our choices not someone else.

  31. formula57
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    History’s judgement of May is going to be very severe, isn’t it.

    I do not understand how anyone can still serve in her Cabinet.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

      Nor me.

    • rose
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

      They are hoping to have a say in the aftermath of the vote. You wouldn’t want Hammond, Lidington, Mrs Rudd, and Greg Clark deciding what to do, propped up by Karen Bradley and James Brokenshire..

  32. Peter
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Mr. Corbyn accurately described the Brexit Deal as ‘twenty six pages of waffle’.

    This is an additional page.

    MPs must not lose focus. The Withdrawal Bill still needs to be defeated first.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

      About the first sensible thing Corbyn has said.

  33. Bryan Davies
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    As letters go this is mindless

  34. Bob
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Theresa May is to go on a national tour to promote her BRINO ploy.
    I wonder if she will be using the Remain Battle Bus, you know the same bus that was used in the “Stronger In” campaign in 2016 and also for her 2017 “Strong and Stable” campaign?

    According to the Mail, Philip Hammond has threatened to quit and take five of his EUrophile cabinet colleugues with him if the Surrender Treaty isn’t ratified. He’s teasing, surely?

    • Steve
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

      Bob

      “Theresa May is to go on a national tour to promote her BRINO ploy.”

      …..and there will be a huge surge in the demand for alabaster eggs.

      I’d give that tour lasting no more than five minutes past Northampton, never mind making it to any North Sea fishing town.

  35. Edwardm
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Mrs May is the principal driving force for this WA which will take our country to oblivion and she now entices us to accept it as our future.
    It says much for Mrs May’s lack of awareness and her odd vision, that she should aim for less independence, in contravention of the democratic decision of June 2016, and keep striving for an end that is so unacceptable to both Leavers and sensible Remainers.
    Amazingly Mrs May has not been deposed, so one concludes there is some ugly connivance keeping her in place.
    There will be a vote on the WA in Parliament and it will be very useful. For each MP we will then know whether they are for or against vassal status. This is a definitive vote that will not be forgotten.

  36. agricola
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    This withdrawal agreement is inheretently dishonest when set against all of May’s earlier oratory. She ancd Robbins have cobbled together a remain document. I hope she has the grace to depart after what I hope will be a severe drubbing in the HoC.
    The solution therafter is a reversion to WTO rules on trade and let theEU realise what a disadvantaged position they have driven themselves into.

    n

  37. Sakara Gold
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    I voted to join the “common market” in Ted Heath’s non-binding referendum in June 1975. At the time, I thought it was a good idea, I approved of free trade and it seemed sensible, as the Empire drew to a close, to form a closer relationship with our European neighbours.

    I didn’t vote for the Maastricht Treaty, never ending political union, the Euro – or a Europe run by the Germans for the benefit of their Wirtschaftswunder. I also voted Remain in the referendum, mainly because I dislike demagogues with an agenda such as Nigel Farage.

    However, the nice thing about living in a democracy such as ours is that one’s views can change as fresh data become available, different opinions are heard
    and one starts to see an alternative future for our country.

    I’ve now been persuaded against staying in the EU because Barnier, Macron, Merkel, Junker, Tusk etc have not negotiated in good faith. To be fair, they have to sell any “Agreement” to their 27 member states and they want our £39b – they don’t want their taxpayers to cough up an increased share. But I was appalled at the capitulation to their demands in the PM’s Chequers Statement, their interference in the internal affairs of the United Kingdom (the NI “backstop”) and now a further capitulation over Gibraltar.

    I sincerely hope that Parliament has the balls to reject this one-sided “agreement” and we just crash out in March next year. We will muddle through. I want to see our contributions spent here in the UK. I think we are big enough and ugly enough to stand on our own two feet, strike our own trade deals – to our benefit not theirs – defend ourselves, control inward migration to our benefit, eat our own fish caught by our own trawlers and regain our place in world affairs, speaking up for British interests. The PM won’t get this through parliament. When its rejected, she should do the honorable thing and resign.

  38. James Snell
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    Two years ago Nigel Farage said that this was the start of the breakup of the EU- but don’t see it myself

    IDS said that the german car workers wouldn put pressure on Ms Merkel..didn’t happen

    Nor did the French wine producers take to the streets as M Gove said would happen.

    How could our politicians have got it all so wrong?

    • Andy
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

      They didn’t. Most politicians wanted to remain – because they knew Farage and IDS were wrong.

    • Jagman84
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

      Remainers are in charge so it is unlikely that any real attempt at leaving will be made. Mrs May probably let the EU know this so German & French suppliers have had no need to worry.

    • Dennis
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

      James Snell – yes you are right but that’s because May has conceded everything and the Brexit ministers had no idea how to proceed.

    • Martin
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

      They didn’t get it wrong. It’s all going nicely to plan and they’re loving every minute of it, or at least May is.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

      All Empires fall. Just give it time.

      As to the others, they all talk in terms of trade and not governance. As such, they show how ignorant they are of the EU. The EU does not care about car workers jobs, or anybody elses jobs, just their own and the survival of the ‘Project’.

    • Cerberus
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

      A rhetorical question?

      Think about it and I’m sure you can work it out for yourself.

    • Maybot
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

      ’cause May was put in power.

      They were, therefore, assured we wouldn’t be leaving.

      Believe me. The UK going *pop* would make the PIIGS crises look like a tea party.

    • Edward2
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

      The French and German people didn’t need need to take any protesting action.
      We just gave them all they wanted.

  39. Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    The problem is that we Brexiteers are playing catch-up. Having won the referendum we rested on our laurels, believing that our Government were honourable. I don’t think it occurred to most of us that we should be fighting from the word go to have our wishes implemented, and regarded the Remain Camp as just empty vessels making the most noise.

    It seems we were wrong to consider our Government ‘honourable’ and we certainly misjudged the venom of the Remain side’s sore losers.

    Our MPs should ALL have been ‘leavers’ as soon as the result of the referendum was known, not taking up a stance of a rearguard to keep us shackled. It is disgraceful on the part of many in our Government that they should be so shameless. But we SHOULD keep fighting now – you don’t escape an ‘organisation’ like the EU (was there ever one like it?) without a fight.

    • Andy
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

      “Our MPs should all have been ‘leavers’ as soon as the result of the referendum was known.”

      What a silly comment.

      Our MPs don’t all support Labour if Labour wins an election. Our MPs don’t all support the Conservatives if the Conservatives win an election.

      I appreciate that Brexiteers loathe anyone who dare question their project. But, fortunately, we live in a democracy.

      We are no only entitled to disagree it is our duty to disagree. Brexit is an entirely predictable mess. But it is your mess and you will own the blame.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted November 26, 2018 at 5:20 am | Permalink

        No, it is YOUR mess. People like you, screaming to remain, AT ANY COST, told the EU that we would accept anything, and we have! Well done! We’ve lost one of the few things worth having, freedom of movement and we’ll now be divided for a generation.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 26, 2018 at 8:28 am | Permalink

        Andy

        If as you claim “we live in a democracy”

        How come we dont fully implement the results of the biggest democratic mandate in history?

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

      Naive for we Leavers to see the Referendum in the same way as a GE, when the losers have to put up with the result.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

      They should have been all Leavers after the last GE. This be because both main parties stood on a Leave manifesto.

  40. Chris
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    Another lie by TM? Gibraltar’s sovereignty is not assured it seems:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6426123/Theresa-faces-Gibraltar-challenge-Brexit-deal-Spanish-Prime-Minister-claims-joint-sovereignty.html
    Spanish PM claims that Britain must now open talks on ‘joint sovereignty’ of Gibraltar after May caved in to his demands as furious Tory MPs accuse her of ‘selling out’

  41. Rien Huizer
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,

    If the parliamentary prospects of this deal (the only one on offer as an alternative to a strict “no deal”) are as bad as generally assumed, why bother? It looks like a waste of time to me. Obviously, the PM must appear busy until she is deposed, but why Parliamentarians spend so much effort on explaining why the deal and everything around it are bad does not look rational to me, unless something else would be on offer.

    • libertarian
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

      Rien

      You ask good questions

      Answer, because that is what politicians do in order to make it look like they have anything at all to offer the people at large. Of course politicians dont, we can function quite well without them . Politicians first create false problems ( example we will run out of drinking water) then come up with “solutions” to the problem. The solution is ALWAYS ban or stop something, regulate it then tax it

    • Caterpillar
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

      Mr Huizer,

      I don’t think I agree with you on many things, but in this case I do. There is much resource being wasted on the current withdrawal agreement, three possibilities are; (i) incompetence, (ii) conspiracy – MPs say they are against it and will then be persuaded to make it look good, (iii) distraction whilst something else is produced. I suspect conspiracy is looking the most likely as the PM has not had to face a vote of no confidence.

    • Steve
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

      Rein

      The alternative is conflict with France, who run the EU.

      Our politicians either have no stomach for it or are themselves aligned with the Franco Walloon empire.

      The deal will be passed by Parliament, and at least we’re out. The conservatives will be voted out of existence and in interim for a while we will have Corbyn until the Nationalists get their act together – which will happen once the reality of May’s BRINO trap sinks in.

      The positive aspect of the deal is the fact that other countries were watching us closely and it has been shown that it is possible to leave the EU, they will follow.

  42. Steve
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Yes they keep on claiming Theresa May has written to the British public. I haven’t received any letters from her, I’m still waiting.

    Re Gibraltar;

    Actually Gibraltarians voted by 90+% to remain in the EU, i.e thought about themselves rather than British sovereignty. Yet they still expect the UK top provide their defence.

    My point here is why should we? They didn’t support us in the referendum and clearly want to be European, so why should we support them ?

    No, there was no betrayal of Gibraltar. It was the inverse.

    As they clearly want to be Europeans perhaps we should cut them loose with the words; ‘fine, off you go, tatty-bye, oh and you have to defend yourselves in future and…you cannot have stirling either’

  43. Peter Divey
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    This letter is incoherent propaganda. I do not trust her.

  44. forthurst
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    According to the Mail on Sunday, “… Gove decided against quitting the Cabinet in protest at Mrs May’s deal after reading ‘apocalyptic’ warnings about the effect of ‘no deal’ on the UK’s water supply..”

    Firstly, I do not think the Irish would be that rash and second, in that unlikely circumstance, it would become immediately incumbent on the British government to reinstate the water supply using all possible means.

    Frankly, I am so sick of this weak Tory government which apparently uses alleged foreign threats against us to try to blackmail us into agreeing to a total and unconditional surrender to the EU.

    As to the letter, if Theresa May really believes what she has written, then she needs to be sectioned because she has become totally detached from reality; however, that is unlikely so the only alternative is that she is an inveterate liar.

  45. The Prangwizard
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    All well and good, but you’ve done nothing to stop your traitorous leader and Prime Minister with her surrender to the EU. She continues to betray the UK and support the EU with yet more concessions, the latest being Gibraltar.

    You once said you would you would resign the whip if the party stated a wish to join the Euro. Is this betrayal on all fronts not worse?

    • Timaction
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

      Honourable MPs would all design the whip if this Prime Minister is not removed forthwith!

  46. Bob
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Mrs May’s Surrender Treaty attempts to bind the hands of successive UK governemnts which renders it “unconstitutional”. I trust that Gina Miller will be on the blower to Mishcon de Reya to launch a challenge to prevent Mrs May from “ripping a hole through our democratic structures”.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

      Bob, it makes me wonder why we bothered to contest Gina Miller in court. We may as well have let her win. What a farce it all is.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

      Why ? Didn’t you notice that Brexit has already done that ?

  47. Richard1
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Cabinet and EU making ‘secret’ plan B for when Brino gets voted down apparently. Perhaps you ERG types should get involved and make sure it’s a 1/2 sensible compromise. We must be able to see our way to an independent trade policy at least after the two year transition. There also seems to be a lot of EU push back on fish. The govt should trade fish against, eg, the financial services passport, not just give it up for nothing as they’ve done with everything else.

  48. agricola
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    The political declaration is a Yes Minister attempt to say all, but the opposite at the same time. In that it contains the possibility for a treaty on free trade on goods and services, it also contains the possibility for a reversion to WTO trade rules. This is leverage because it does not appeal to the EU but has real fina cial advantages to the UK. £7billion pa on current trading levels. We still have the opportunity to fight for and demand what we want, but take it away from the traiterous civil service who have served their friends the EU so well but the British nation so badly.

  49. Bob Wade
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    I totally Agree with JR. What will happen now is an orchestrated and determined effort by the establishment to vilify anyone who does not agree with the deal as people against national unity. There will be no distinction between Leave and the deal. indeed the deal is, apparently, all the fault of us voting to leave. By the time of the vote it will be like the Spanish inquisition and leavers will need their priest holes. As for leave politicians they need to stand firm against this forthcoming propaganda machine. The establishment and the BBC are really going to demonise them. Stand Firm JR.

  50. Jack Falstaff
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    Exactly, why is Mrs May writing a letter to us when all this is in the hands of parliament now?

    The only explanation I can think of that she is cooking up a second referendum behind our backs.

  51. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    In her letter, available here:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/759018/PM_s_letter_to_the_nation.pdf

    she writes that under her Brexit deal:

    “We will take back control of our borders, by putting an end to the free movement of people once and for all.”

    That is not true, in fact it has to be condemned it as a deliberate deception.

    The relevant legally binding provisions in her composite “deal”, those in the Withdrawal Agreement, would have precisely the opposite effect by securing a continuation of a legal basis for free movement until the end of the so-called “transition period”, if it was ever to come to an end:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/23/the-withdrawal-agreement-should-be-renamed-the-stay-in-and-pay-up-agreement/#comment-975952

    While Paragraph 4 in the “jam tomorrow” part of her “deal”, the non-binding Political Declaration, would do what she says would happen if her “deal” was rejected – it would “take us back to square one” as far as free movement of persons was concerned.

    That is, it would take us back to those days immediately after the referendum when EU notables and other experts were queuing up to emphasise the inseparability of the “four freedoms” of the EU Single Market:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/23/the-withdrawal-agreement-should-be-renamed-the-stay-in-and-pay-up-agreement/#comment-975912

    ” 4. The future relationship will be based on a balance of rights and obligations … This balance must … be consistent with the Union’s principles, in particular with respect to the integrity of the Single Market … and the indivisibility of the four freedoms … ”

    All we have here is the prospect of Theresa May or some other Prime Minister agreeing that to keep the three freedoms we would like for the sake of “frictionless trade” we will continue to accept the fourth after the end of the so-called “transition period”.

  52. Posted November 25, 2018 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    I urge all readers of whatever persuasion on Brexit to use the “email number 10” webform to tell the PM exactly what they think of this disastrous so called deal.

    I have personally written to express my displeasure and to remind her that she said “no deal is better than a bad deal” !

    As a member of the Conservative Party I have also expressed my feeling that she will lose the party my vote and I shall seriously consider not renewing my members when it comes up. There are an awful lot of us that feel the same way. She should take note – but I sincerely doubt she will.

  53. NickW
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    There are many, (if not a majority of the voting electorate) in the Country who understand that the PM’s behaviour constitutes an existential crisis for the Country.

    It is essential that those who would betray us are forced to pay the price, and that price will be the annihilation of the Conservative Party. Compared to what we are facing at May’s hands the election of Corbyn is a very small price to pay for the dispensation of justice.

  54. javelin
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Being a Tory MP is like turkey waiting for Christmas.

  55. Andy
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Mrs May is making Neville Chamberlain look dynamic. The woman is a disgrace.
    She has capitulated on everything possible and more besides.

    I can only assume this has been a deliberate plan which will lead the UK back into the EU in very short order, probably before 2024.

  56. David Williams
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    Of the withdrawal deal is approved by Parliament it will be like losing a major war. Humiliation, reparation payment, cede territory, hand over control. It must be voted down.

  57. Bob
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    So the vilification begins. It is now your “duty” to vote for the deal or we will all be out of a job. You nasty brexiteers. Stand firm. This deal is awful.

  58. Mike of Wokingham
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    Looks like it’s this deal or no Brexit. From here, I think a lot of people will understand if we do not leave the EU.

  59. Timaction
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Honourable MPs would all design the whip if this Prime Minister is not removed forthwith!

  60. The Quiet Man
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Every word this dreadful woman says is a lie yet she remains leader of the Tory party.
    Its clear now this ‘deal’ was written by Merkel.
    May the worst PM ever and that’s saying something.

  61. JustGetOnWithBrexit
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    Jeremy Hunt says May’s Withdrawal “is not perfect” but…

    We agree Jeremy, the Agreement “isn’t perfect”…but it’s as close to an Unconditional Surrender Agreement as May can get it.

  62. libertarian
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    The Conservative Party is in control of the destiny of this country

    An insufficient number of them lack the moral fibre, principles, backbone or desire to do the ONLY thing that needs doing. Sack Mrs May and appoint an interim PM to take us through the Brexit procedure as mandated by the peoples vote #1 in June 2016

  63. Jacqui
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    This letter is the same arguments we bear over and over again. It’s all rubbish the EU have intention of even trying to deal on the grounds of the political document. It’s not legally binding therefore they can say whatever they think we will accept then not deliver! As for the alternative that remainder in cabinet are planning , the Norway option it’s again not delivering on the referendum. It would mean obeying EU rules accepting free. Movement and the ECJ. How is that different to this dreadful deal? Leavers would feelyet again parliament ignores 17+ million voters. The red lines for us are we must take back control of our laws, borders and money. The issue is not just immigration it’s also about complete sovereignty. I will not vote for any party that ignore the results of the referendum which was to Leave!!

  64. ian
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    I can see England and Wales on their own with even the Isle of Man leaving the UK union to get a get out jail free card from the EU.

    • hefner
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

      The Isle of Man has never been in the EU, if Wikipedia is to be believed.

  65. Tabulazero
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    “I remained firmly opposed”

    Of course you are. You built your whole political career on Brexit. It would it be a little bit too late to admit that Leaving is harder and more dangerous than you thought despite the past two years pretty much demonstrating that beyond any shadow of a doubt.

    No. Much better to pretend that Leaving is painless and riskless despite all the other experts, the CBI, the various multinationals, the City, different trade bodies, the IMF, the WTO itself telling you otherwise.

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

      And they’ve called it wrong in the past Tabulazero when JR has evidence on his side.
      The politicians can make this difficult for us by deliberately delaying supply lines from other Countries, we have ports all around the UK we used to trade more globally.

  66. MikeP
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    How can she ever look a farmer of fisherman in the face again? She freely admits in her letter that the CAP and CFP have “failed” them. Thanks for clearing that one up. But if you’re a big business, probably foreign-owned, signed up to the CBI, happy your lobbying in Brussels continues to create barriers to entry for competitors – even if it means cheating diesel emissions tests or ensuring tests for vacuum cleaners let you compete with a true entrepreneur, then the EU is fine. Any MP who votes to support this sell-out deal will be i the total surrender of this once great nation

  67. Trevor Butler
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    I have refrained from posting here for a long while even though I am an avid reader – This woman has gone too far and has consigned the Conservative party to history for a generation

  68. mancunius
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Two of the important points about Gibraltar apply to the entire future agreement with the EU – 1) that a ‘trade deal’ will be wrenched into the fom of a political treaty by the EU and
    – 2) while the current ‘Withdrawal Agreement’ is by majority in the Council – meaning that Spain was merely trying it on by claiming the right to ‘veto Brexit’ – any future treaty about lasting trade with the EU is subject to the veto of any of the 27 states and parliaments.
    So Spain could easily prevent Britain from having any future agreement at all – ergo the so-called backstop would kick in and we’d be stuck in that unsatisfactory condition ‘in saecula saeculorum’.

    Mrs May – as she knows – will not be around in politics to suffer the full ignominy of what she has done. She has consciously left the problems to her successor, in a poison pill and scorched earth strategy without parallel.

  69. Steve P
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Sorry but how can Theresa May claim she has the support of the cabinet when she has changed the version of the withdrawal agreement she presented to them – it never said then Gibraltar was being given up. Surely she should return to cabinet and revisit.

  70. Nigel Seymour
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    J, What are your thoughts on the numbers when it comes to the vote in Dec?

  71. Adam
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Theresa May appears increasingly naive.

  72. Know-Dice
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    This deal locks the UK in to too much ongoing EU control and the “Polical Agreement ” will never happen

    Bad deal and must be rejected

  73. Russ
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Juncker and May are clear….. the best deal for the EU is the best deal for us.

  74. Student
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Any updates on what May conceded to make the Spanish PM hush up on Gibraltar so quickly?

    • mancunius
      Posted November 26, 2018 at 2:15 am | Permalink

      Juncker probably reminded Spain that it has no veto on an Art. 50 agreement, but
      that any future trade deal must be unanimously ratified, so Spain will get its chance then to threaten a veto.

  75. VotedOut
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    One wonders just how bad a leader of the Conservative party has to be to get removed?

  76. Claudia Norman
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Nothing positive will happen as long as May is PM. Where are those 48 letters to the 1922? It’s alright to oppose the deal but without getting rid of May opposition to the deal alone is useless.

  77. Andy
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Say it slowly: THIS IS WHAT YOU ALL VOTED FOR.

    This is what Brexit means. This is what Brexit has always meant.

    We told you but you knew best. Only it turns out that none of you did.

    Enjoy your Brexit.

    RIP United Kingdom
    Died 25/11/2018
    Killed by economic illiterates who did not read the small print

    • Jiminyjim
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

      Andy, no one can really be stupid enough to accept your factless rubbish. Just shut up and read th documents

    • Edward2
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

      You keep repeating this andy and it is not true.
      “We” did not vote for this
      Remainers like you have hijacked the leaving process
      It is the opposite of what “we” voted for.

    • Maybot
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

      John

      If you and your lot are not actually going to do something then Remain have won and posting Andy here serves no purpose than to rub our noses in it.

      I used to think that you did it to prove that Speaking for England was no echo chamber and to show everyone how bad Remainers can be.

      Now I’m coming to think you’re just taking the piss out of us.

      If you’re not going to do anything then please close down this blog.

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

      You are incorrect Andy Leave wanted to Leave not capitulate.
      Labour will be voting it in and it will then become their and May’s traitorous deal.

    • mancunius
      Posted November 26, 2018 at 2:21 am | Permalink

      At least we can agree that the PM and the negotiating members of the civil service are economic illiterates impatient or incapable of understanding the small print of what they sign.

      Luckily, it will not stand. If you lived here, instead of abroad, you’d see why.

  78. John Dodds
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Why do we have to be subjected to the continual dishonesty of our current Prime Minister;surely there must be sufficient MPs with sufficient honesty to stop her from totally ignoring the outcome of the referendum and the impending destruction of the Conservative Party.It would seem that Denmark is not the only state in which something is rotten.Whilst I have never had confidence in our current Prime Minister I misguidedly believed that there were sufficient honest Conservative MPs to ensure that she adhered honestly to her Lancaster House outburst.However it would seem that many of our MPs are just as dishonest as our Prime Minister.I applaud those MPs who have had the guts and honesty to resign from her Cabinet,the ERG and those that have submitted letters re lack of confidence in her.What a tangled web she has weaved,or woven!

  79. nshgp9
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    The real solution is easy.

    EU Lists what it wants, and doesn’t want. The UK does the same.

    Where both sides agree, it goes into the agreement. Where they don’t agree it doesn’t.

    What’s gone on here is horse trading, where one side agrees to let one section of its nationals gets screwed over, for the benefit of the elite.

    It’s bad for the EU as well as the UK.

  80. Helen Taylor
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Thank you John, please keep up the pressure and information. Clean Brexit,

  81. Simon Coleman
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Well that’s what happens when you take a colossal gamble like Brexit, with so many complexities, so many issues, so many possible outcomes. It doesn’t turn out quite the way you imagined. And that’s all you’ve been giving us – an imaginary Brexit with no obligations, nothing to negotiate, no problems to solve. Businesses suddenly without the single market and customs union – well they’ll just have to muddle through. Irish border…simple, just bung in some technology from somewhere, even if it doesn’t at present exist. Young people suddenly with reduced travel and work opportunities in the EU…well who cares? It’s a grey-haired Brexit but it’s the result of a lack of grey matter.

    • Edward2
      Posted November 26, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      You must find it puzzling how over 150 nations who are not in the EU manage to survive.

      • Simon Coleman
        Posted November 26, 2018 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

        We’ll survive but we’ll just be worse off.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 26, 2018 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

          How do you know that?
          The real growth in living standards is in nations outside the EU.
          EU has a falling share of world trade, lower than average world growth and much higher unemployment rates than top non EU nations.

  82. Stuart Price
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    I see Martin Howe QC’s damning piece about the WA generated a response from No 10 — as reported today in The Spectator — which in turn he has pulled apart. It is a sorry state indeed when the ‘leader’ of our great nation is left so wanting.

    • Stred
      Posted November 26, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

      The WA was altered following his criticism. A date was added to the 20XX. The refutals to his original opinion are shown to be false and incompetent. Who in the civil service writes this tripe? Is the government unable to employ a lawyer capable of giving the PM reliable advice? If this is the best they can provide, it may explain why a feeble minded PM lies every time she opens her mouth.

  83. a-tracy
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

    May doesn’t listen to the people nor does she know what the people are thinking.

    She has not negotiated she has capitulated.

    France and Spain have already broken cover gloating today, don’t try telling us you achieved anything Mrs May, you’re obviously telling us porkies.

  84. JustGetOnWithBrexit
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Martin Howe QC

    “It is most regrettable that the government is not trying to sell the deal on its merits, but is seeking to take advantage of legal complexities to misrepresent the legal effects of the agreement on this critical point as well as others.”

  85. rick hamilton
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    I read that Theresa May is planning to visit Argentina for the G20. Is she planning to give away the Falklands and pay them a few billion as conscience money ?

    After all, the British must always be wrong about everything, isn’t that what they teach our children?

  86. a-tracy
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    We don’t have to buy our medicines from the EU, the NHS has massive buying power and needs to find alternative suppliers now, why are we importing so many life saving drugs we should be more self sufficient!
    We don’t have to buy our fruit from Spain, we need to just eat seasonal UK grown fruit until we start to teach the Spanish we will not kowtow or give way on Gibralta, no more mass Spanish holidays until they get the message, don’t threaten us. We are happy to work hand in hand but bite that hand and the gloves are off.
    We don’t have to buy French wines, cars, champagne, Macron is trying to show he is over powerful Over the embarrassing British PM because his people don’t support him in `France and it makes good headlines for him. I love France this just makes me seethe.
    If the politicians allow our Country to get stitched up then the people will have to deal with this humiliating stitch up ourselves with our combined buying power.

    • Stred
      Posted November 26, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

      I haven’t bought any product marked Irish or from any other EU country except for Hungary and Poland for the last six months. I will now sell my house in France and not return to the area that I have vitited for the last 55years.

  87. Ron Olden
    Posted November 26, 2018 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    I don’t agree that there have been any concessions by the UK or anyone else on Gibraltar.

    The furore at the last minute was an attention seeking stunt by Spain and appears to have been a dispute within the EU itself.

    Insofar as it was anything at all, it was Spain asserting its’ National Sovereignty and right to negotiate direct with the UK on border arrangements with Gibraltar, rather than leaving it to the EU. I can’t imagine that any Leave voters would complain about that.

    Gibraltar is not, and never has been part of the United Kingdom and has never been anything to do with the EU except as a Sovereign Possession of the UK. It’s a British Possession Overseas, and the only one which is part of the EU. It will Leave with us.

    But the future of Gibraltar is, where it has been for decades and is the same as every constituent part of the UK (including England), and British Overseas territory:- in the hands of its’ people.

    If they want to remain British that’s up to them. But for all we know they might want to leave UK Sovereignty and/or choose some sort of independent status within or outside the EU, perhaps similar to the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands) and/or join Spain.

    Our responsibility is confined to standing by their right of self determination.

  88. Mike Wilson
    Posted November 26, 2018 at 5:28 am | Permalink

    Past caring. I will now vote Labour, to punish this vile Conservative Party

    • Original Richard
      Posted November 26, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

      It is more important that you do not vote for a elitist EU supporter.

  89. Treacle
    Posted November 26, 2018 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    I’ve just been listening to the BBC news. One Scottish Conservative MP is backing the Withdrawal Agreement because he says it gives us our fishing back, and another Scottish Conservative MP is refusing to back it because he says it doesn’t. It seems to me that there is a lot of lying going on at the moment, and the lies all originate from Mrs May and the government.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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