Where is the Withdrawal Treaty Bill?

Will Mrs May really ask us to vote for a fourth time on this unpopular Treaty by bringing forward the Bill to ratify it? She says they will. Why then does she  not publish it so we can talk about it properly? Is it so bad it must be kept secret?

Mrs May’s refusal to change her mind on this draft Treaty means she must resign after so many defeats for it.

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145 Comments

  1. Pominoz
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    “Mrs May’s refusal to change her mind on this draft Treaty means she must resign after so many defeats for it.”

    Please, for all our sakes, let it be so.

    • oldtimer
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:37 am | Permalink

      On past evidence she will not resign. The 1922 Committee has been duped. As a No 10 spokesman said after Brady reported the outcome of its meeting with May, his conclusions were “over interpreted”.

      I will be unsurprised there is no draft bill. There will be another attempt to bounce Conservative MPs into supporting the WA, this time based on fear of Farage and the Brexit party. Any MP who supports it or a WA bill will immediately become a marked man or woman, whether Conservative or Labour. That is why any Conservative MP who voted for it risks becoming electoral toast. The electoral issue has moved beyond Brexit to democracy, to the issue of Parliament vs the People; May’s sell-out vs a clean break leave.

      • Timaction
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

        Indeed it has. As usual in the days of the internet, Parliament hasn’t caught up as yet.

        • Hope
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

          1922 committee were not duped. Nigel Evans is clear he wants her gone. There are a majority who want her to remain. Think where are Hammond, Rudd, Gauke ,Greg Clarke and other Traitor types going? Thy are still the majority of the Remain Conservative Party who have betrayed the nation and the will of the people.

          JR and other leavers are a minority in his party. The Remain Tories have already shown they will do a deal with Labour no matter how bad it’s leadership,is to remain in the EU. The allowed the extension for these talks to take place.

          Do not underestimate the collusion between Tory and Labour is over. It would suite both parties not to have a formal agreement by current polling, but one achieved by indicative votes so they can claim to their voters they did not sell out to the other side.

          Today we read current ministers insisting if Johnson becomes leader they will bring down the govt. insisting there is no way they will allow a no deal exit!

          Lee also points out the only way a no deal will get through is by a general election. Remainers have no loyalty above th EU. The country and party being irrelevant.

          • Hope
            Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

            The public were told by the Tory government your decision is final. Mayhab in stark contrast is bringing forward definitive votes for MPs to decide! She is a liar and dishonest. Allowed by Brady and co to continue to destroy democracy, Brexit and your party.

            Any inclusion of single market or any form of Customs union is not leaving.

      • Hope
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

        The Conservative Party, under a Mayhab, has betrayed the British people to leave the EU and to leave the EU on more than one date!

        We are now up to three dates where the people were promised and betrayed we would leave the EU.

        People have now woken up that Conservative Party cannot be trusted on the referendum promises and result, general election promises and result, local elections promises and result and now the forthcoming EU elections.

        Mayhab said- at a closed event yesterday where no one was allowed to question her- that only the Conservative party will, immediately changed in sentence to can deliver Brexit! In one sentence the woman had to change will to can, presumably as a possible or might.

        The Conservative Party has betrayed the will of the British people to leave the EU.

        Under Mayhab it has done everything, including collusion with the EU and Labour, to prevent the UK leaving. Only the dull or stupid could now still beleiv Mayhab servitude plan is leaving. It is not. It is remaining in the EU under vassalage treaty on worse terms than being in the EU!

        What PM would countenance N.Ireland being treated as a different country to to the UK. Even knowing the DUP were your partners to provide government! Mayhab is a traitor to our nation.

        Yet in stark reality of her destroying their party the ruling 1922 is determined to keep her in office while the party is being destroyed.

        33 MPs lost their jobs because of Mayhab, 1334 councillor lost their jobs because of Mayhab, next week Tory MEPs will lose their jobs because of Mayhab. Unpresidented demand from grass root activists for her to go. All ignored by the 1922 ruling body.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:34 am | Permalink

        I agree but I have a feeling there’s a subterfuge at play, and her mate Brady is part of it. It looks like May has been given her marching orders and newspapers even spin it that way, until one homes in on the nuances and explores the carefully worded caveats. Then we find May always seems to have a ‘get out’ somewhere.

        We’ve seen too many false dawns and backsliding. The nation is heartily sick of this hanger-on who refuses to do the right thing and resign as a matter of principle. She wouldn’t know honesty and integrity if they hit her in the face!

        Even at the most pathetic poorly-attended so-called ‘campaign launch’ in the south-west yesterday, May was trying to pin the blame for her failures on everybody else, but the nation has rumbled her. She never once intended to take the UK out of the EU, she kept up the pretense, aided and abetted by all the other pro-EU toadies who have brought the party’s and the nation’s reputation and credibility low.

        A decent leader would have resigned by now as a matter of honour. This woman has no honour. She is either deceitful or deranged. Either way, she is not fit to govern this great nation. She has dragged it down in the pursuance of her hidden pro-EU agenda. We now need a leader who can build it back up again and restore its fortunes.

        Fly-on-wall documentaries have shown what is in store for the UK if we stay in the EU. If we don’t finally get rid of May and her ilk, no-one should be in the least surprised if the barely contained anger towards this remain parliament sees its protagonists banished.

        • Nicky Roberts
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

          I absolutely agree. I don’t believe Brady for a minute, he is allowing her to walk over everyone and carry on regardless. The complete fiasco of her appearance in Bristol yesterday was utterly surreal. Those poor MEPs looked like they were off to face their executioner and in many ways I expect they were. Tainted by the appearance of May.This is a National disgrace and I cannot for the life of me understand why these treacherous MPs would prefer this utter and complete shambles over the execution of a democratic vote.

        • Hope
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

          Tad,

          No. 10 spokesperson immediately clarified Brady’s statement. There is no date of departure or any agreement for her to resign. They might have a chat, which they already do, in a June!

          Why would Brady allow her servitude bill to come to house for a fourth time after a historic defeat! Brady made a false claim she committing her efforts to leaving, the facts overwhelmingly show she has not and is not. 29/03/2019, 12/04/2019 and 31/05/2019 all dates the U.K. could have left. Brady appears to forget her threats if her servitude plan were not voted through including no Brexit! In her closed EU election launch without questions or people present she immediately changed her sentence from will leave to can leave!

          Brady discredits himself and his party. Thatcher was gone in ten days. Compare.

        • Bridget Anne Day
          Posted May 20, 2019 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

          Hear Hear!!

    • Fred H
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      pominoz….resign is not acceptable, she must be booted out. I doubt sitting on hands and waiting for her to go will work. Those who finally have the courage must indicate rather more forcibly that enough is enough. Staying on the Tory benches is all very well, and wanting to have a vote on her replacement, is likely to lead to a much smaller encampment. In fact the possibility of another party forming a coalition without the Tories is becoming a real event. What then for your new leader in the wilderness?

    • James Ebbage
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

      https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/756374/14_November_Draft_Agreement_on_the_Withdrawal_of_the_United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland_from_the_European_Union.pdf

      Hi John..Thank you for your endless sanity..!
      Searched quite a while for the “Chequers..Robbins…Flannel..or
      The Merkel Withdrawal A Grrreement..aka New 585 page treaty…Link above.
      Appreciate your brevity and clarity,
      Cheers

      • Bridget Anne Day
        Posted May 20, 2019 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

        I’ll Second That!

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

      Mrs May’s refusal to change her mind on this DAFT Treaty …..

    • Bridget Anne Day
      Posted May 20, 2019 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

      YES

  2. Posted May 18, 2019 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    If you are digging yourself into a hole – stop digging!
    At the moment I am reading “Appeasing Hitler” by Tim Bouvarie. Neville Chamberlain keeps on appeasing when everyone (including Halifax) realises that it is leading directly to war. Mrs May is the same: fixated with the wrong idea.
    Neville Chamberlain resigned when disaster struck.
    So far disaster has not yet struck. It most certainly will though at this rate.

    • jerry
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

      @Mike Stallard; “[appeasement was] leading directly to war.”

      Hitler was leading the world to war what ever, appeasement or no appeasement.

      Even as late as the Munich Crisis in Sept. ’38 the UK was totally unprepared for the coming war, appeasement if it did nothing else bought the UK and others time to ramp-up military production & preparations but even by Sept ’39 the UK was still under prepared.

      “Neville Chamberlain resigned when disaster struck.”

      You appear to be referring to ‘Plan R 4’, a naval campaign, that lead to the famous “Norway debate”, who was First Lord of the Admiralty at the time?

      Your understanding and thus analogy between Mr Chamberlain and Mrs May is way off the mark [1]. If you have drawn such conclusions directly from reading the book you cite then you really should find a more authoritative (and impartial?) history of the period!

      [1] by your rational, should TM resign, our next PM will have the initials “OR”…

      • Patrick Moore
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

        Appeasement started in 1930 when the Allied Forces moved out of the Rhineland at the behest of Germany and continued in 1936 when the German Forces re-entered the Rhineland, which had been a demilitarised zone since the Treaty of Versailles, and the Allies did nothing about it. The rest is history and defines the penultimate attempt of Germany to rule Europe. The latest attempt started in 1957 with the founding of the EEC and is ongoing. Mrs May is colluding in that attempt.

        • jerry
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

          Patrick, so Germany should have remained occupied in 1930, without the consent of the German people, is that what you are saying? Would that not have just made things even worse, as it had in 1923 when the Ruhr region was occupied by France and Belgian due to ‘Weimar Republic’ defaulting on war reparations.

          It was the humiliating Versailles Treaty (and all the problem it caused), then the Wall Street crash of 1929 and worldwide Great Depression that followed during the 1930s, resulting in 30% German unemployment, that lead to even further political upheaval within the ‘Weimar Republic’ and ultimately to the 1932 special elections – the rest being history… By contrast, even before the USSR showed its intent in Eastern Europe, post WW2 the western allied forces were intent on using both carrot and stick to lead Germany out of their mess, not just the stick that was used post 1918.

        • Edward2
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

          You need to understand Patrick, that Jerry is an authority on political history.
          Any contrary views to his are wrong.

          • jerry
            Posted May 19, 2019 at 6:52 am | Permalink

            @Edward2; Not an authority on anything Eddie, unlike how you see yourself, where any contrary views to your own are wrong – ho-hum, two can play the ankle kicking game…

            I do (try to) check the facts, using impartial sources, unlike so many here, even our host at times, when he has a partisan point to promote, but than that is his job!

          • NickC
            Posted May 19, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

            Edward2, I think Jerry has just proved your point.

          • jerry
            Posted May 19, 2019 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

            @NickC; I suspect that Eddie posted his comment before our host got around to publishing by reply to Patrick, I also suspect you have not actually bothered to read that reply to Patrick either If you have, rather than just posting your usual snide comments towards me, might you be so kind as to explain what facts I have got wrong regarding German inter-war history?

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted May 19, 2019 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

            Jerry would do well to take more care reading what others have written before jumping in with his responses.

    • Turboterrier
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:37 am | Permalink

      Totally correct Mike.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:59 am | Permalink

      Mike Stallard

      Quite right

      Churchill wanted a war with the upstart Germany. Germany was a threat to UK/US global hegemony!….all this Chamberlin nonsense would never have stopped a war with Germany, it was inevitable.

  3. Denis Cooper
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    The Bill could and should have been published as a draft Bill long ago.

    https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/draft-bills/

    “Draft Bills are Government Bills that are issued first in a draft form to allow them to be looked at in detail before they are introduced. They are usually examined either by a Commons or Lords select committee or by a specially created joint committee of both Houses of Parliament. This process is known as ‘pre-legislative scrutiny’.”

    • jerry
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:51 am | Permalink

      @Denis Cooper; Operative word in your citation is surely “usually”, but then the detail of the Bill has already been published a long time ago, so long that parliament has already voted three time on it – hence the problems!

      • Leslie Singleton
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

        Dear Jerry–I may be missing something but is it so obvious that Bercow will even allow a 4th vote? Was it not precisely to stop nonsense like this that the no-repeat rule developed? And not clear to me (makes me ill trying to keep up) how come this go round is so certain to be the final attempt? And in any event if (which it isn’t) the WA is satisfactory why is it necessary (it isn’t) that Mrs May has to stay to get it through? She should be booted out with as much permanent opprobrium as possible this afternoon. We desperately need someone who can inspire and persuade, not the apology for a politician of the present incumbent. God help the Tory Party if they cannot see this.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:50 am | Permalink

        The so-called “meaningful votes” on the proposed deal were just votes on the proposed deal agreed on the international plane, not on the Bill which would be needed to implement the proposed deal in domestic law. The mass media also have difficulty in understanding the distinction.

        • Hope
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 9:25 am | Permalink

          But Dennis is there not president now that Bills can be made into law in 24 hours if it is to sell out your nation to a foreign body! I.e. Traitors Letwin and Cooper legislation.

        • jerry
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

          @Denis Cooper; You mean the Bill would implement, in domestic law, the WA that has been in the public domain since before the first “Meaningful vote”?

          It is you Denis who appears to not to understand, if you think MPs do not have a first clue as to what the Bill is about…!

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted May 18, 2019 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

            Yes, jerry, your first paragraph is an accurate account on the position, in fact merely repeating it as I stated it, in slightly different words; however the point you continue to miss is that the Bill has NOT been in the public domain, even in a draft form. Hence the heading of this article:

            “Where is the Withdrawal Treaty Bill?”

            a question which our host would not be asking if the Bill had been put in the public domain.

            Whether the Bill will include anything to persuade a majority of MPs to vote for it, including some who previously voted against the Withdrawal Agreement, remains to be seen. It would not be impossible legally for an MP to vote for the Bill even though he had voted against the Agreement, but it is hard to see how that could be brought about politically.

          • jerry
            Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

            Denis, there can not be anything, meaningful (sorry…), added to this expected Bill because the EU has not and will not amend the text of the WA.

            Nor does there appear to have been any further amendments to the Political Declaration either, but perhaps that is why the Bill has not been published yet, and again it might not be the UK govt who dragging their feet, the EU has good form on this, even stopping clocks when it suits.

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted May 19, 2019 at 6:05 am | Permalink

            As I pointed out with reference to the article in the Sun:

            http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/05/18/where-is-the-withdrawal-treaty-bill/#comment-1021476

            Also this morning the question is whether it would be worth paying to read Theresa May’s article:

            https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/my-withdrawal-agreement-bill-will-be-a-bold-new-offer-to-mps-7dxkkqs27

            “Brexit: My Withdrawal Agreement Bill will be a bold new offer to MPs”

            Given that we can no longer believe a word she says it might be better to wait until the Bill is actually published, even if at first it was only published as a draft Bill, see above.

          • jerry
            Posted May 19, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

            Denis, please see my reply to @Edward regarding impartial sources…

            So let me get this correct, you are basing your comments here on others pushing their anti May agenda elsewhere?!

        • NickC
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:52 am | Permalink

          Denis Cooper, You are perfectly correct about the existence of the distinction, and that it is poorly understood. However by introducing the WA as a Bill, Theresa May has just by-passed the meaningful vote. Too many people underestimate Mrs May and her capacity for deception.

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted May 18, 2019 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

            Well, if MPs passed the Bill that would render meaningless the previous meaningful votes, unless the Bill included some good, newly devised, reasons why they could change their minds.

          • jerry
            Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

            @NickC; “Theresa May has just by-passed the meaningful vote.”

            What utter nonsense in stilts. No wonder so many contributors on this site misunderstood the actual question asked in the referendum if they think parliament voting for/against a Bill is not “Meaningful”!

            If I’m wrong please do enlighten me as to the different between rejecting the WA via a “Meaningful Vote” and rejecting a Bill that would implement the WA…

          • NickC
            Posted May 19, 2019 at 9:38 am | Permalink

            Jerry, There is a distinct difference between the government introducing the WA treaty as Bill into Parliament, and the government proposing a motion for approval of the WA in the HoC (the “meaningful vote”).

            When a Bill goes through Parliament there are set procedures; it is examined line by line, and amendments are often made. It must be passed by both the HoC and the HoL.

            The “meaningful vote” is a quick way of accepting the WA treaty in its entirety and in principle (or not) by the HoC alone, prior to the introduction of the WA as Bill to Parliament. The MV is not sufficient to make the WA law.

            The distinction seems pretty clear to me. As I said, introducing the WA as a Bill by-passes the requirement for a meaningful vote: yet another win for the devious Mrs May.

          • jerry
            Posted May 19, 2019 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

            @NickC; It matters not one jot if there is a one line “Meaningful Vote” or a 10,000 line Bill, the core facts will be the same.

            We have already had three MVs since publication of the WA in November last year, how is that quick, 6 months on, and now you suggest this Bill is needed anyway – in other words the MV has not and can not expiate anything, which I guess was the hope.

            Our revised exit date is (now) 31 Oct 2019, unless the WA is agreed [1], or the EC agree otherwise, even if the WA is again rejected and the UK Prime Minister changes I very much doubt we will leave much before 31st Oct, unless the new Govt decides break international treaty law. Not a good way to start negotiating trade deals with the RotW…

            [1] having missed the cut off date before the EP elections, thus May’s wish to push this Bill though quickly, so that UK MEPs do not have to take their seats in July.

  4. margaret
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    What she is doing is rigidly sticking to her own line , which you yourself have used as a sensible individual way to progress , however she is not a voice for her individual self but the voice of many contradictory views and she must be willing to open up and edit the views which she says she feels are best in her heart and head for the UK.

  5. Lifelogic
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 5:56 am | Permalink

    It surely is so bad it that must be kept secret. What on earth is May and her dire “Government” playing all?

    Just go woman, you have done far too much damage and dissembling already. Go and enjoy your richly undeserved, gold plated pension in total ignominy. Why, as an anti-democratic, big government, red tape spewing, no nation socialist did you ever join the Conservative Party let alone lead it? Just for a career one assumes.

    • JoolsB
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:24 am | Permalink

      As a waspi a year older than May there is no way that woman must be allowed to touch her pension until she is ‘old enough’. She would be a hypocrite to do otherwise.
      But then again she is so thick skinned and like any other socialist, it’s do as I say not as I do.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:53 am | Permalink

      LL,

      It’s because the pro-EU toadies needed another pro-EU toady to lead them, but one with special attributes. A mastery in the ability to look a person in the eye with an expression of angelic sincerity, whilst simultaneously telling them the biggest load of b*’ll*cks!

      I wonder if we might petition for the 29th March to be called ‘Saint Theresa’s Day’ in memory of the patron saint of lying?

      • Fred H
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

        Tad…please don’t promote this Theresa with St. (Mother) Theresa. Impossible to think of them in any form of comparison.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

          Mother Theresa was almost as bad.

          If you read:- The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice by Christopher Hitchens published in 1995.

          • Fred H
            Posted May 19, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

            Life….I’ll pass on that thanks. I’ll take your word for it that she was also a stubborn, egotistical, lying, scheming, careerist that never gave a thought to the millions of people adversely affected by her behaviour.

  6. Bryan Harris
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    I recall when Ian Duncan-Smith was leader, and the Tory high command decided he had to go for some reason they didn’t like what he was doing – They concocted ways to discredit him, and it took but days to force him out.
    Considering Ian Duncan-Smith was a pretty decent chap, and we compare him against what we have now, One has to ask what is wrong with Tory high command in not disposing of May – We all know her crimes. The question is; ‘Why is she still here?’
    May has shown herself to be of one aim, which is to shackle us as closely to the EU as she can. Nothing will change as regards the surrender she wants us to make for the sake of the EU – She will pursue her aim to the very last minute, so please let’s stop giving her any more time.

    • Original Richard
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

      Mrs. May is an EU supporter/remainer, as is the “Tory High Command”, whilst IDS was/is a Eurosceptic and hence required removal at the earliest opportunity.

      • Timaction
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:52 am | Permalink

        Indeed. The present Tory’s are as far removed from Conservatives to be unrecognisable. Their true title is liberal blue labour. Their high tax, mass immigration, foreign aid, virtual signalling, minority issue priorities, anti English, pro EU etc are indistinguishable from Bliars new Labour.

        • Mitchel
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

          All thinly disguised Trotskyists;that is the reason why.

      • Hope
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 9:32 am | Permalink

        Thatcher wasn’t got rid of in ten days! Mayhab is still in post fifty days after the U.K. was promised it would leave the EU with or without a deal.

        To think Mayhabs Govt had nothing to do with the back bench shinanigans to take no deal off the table and then for her to claim it was an abstract term is for the birds.

        At the outset the only thing known or referred to as “the deal” was a trade deal. Mayhab has substituted “the deal” colloquialism for her servitude plan to be known as the deal hoping the public would not notice the swap. Mayhab never discussed nor accepted the EU offer for a trade deal whatsoever in the three years since the referendum! Three years. When refusing the offer she knew it was a trade deal being offered not a servitude plan. This was her scam with the civil service to swap one EU treaty for another claiming we left the first! She is dishonest.

        • Timaction
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

          This will conclude with a collapse of this awful Government as the DUP will decline to support it. A general election will follow and hopefully a whole new Party will emerge. What can Tory and Labour say are in their manifesto,s that the public would believe? They are now known as majority pro EU. Leave constituencies will be targeted and remainer MP,s will be sacked!
          Then reform of fptp stitch up and major reform of the civil serpents and left wing selection processes in all our public services, health and local Government. A return to common sense policies that the public want not the left wing socialist PC nonsense we get now!

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      I think mostly the reason is that the rules are designed assuming the incumbent will have a basic set of morals and will follow the spirit of the rules rather than being entirely unprincipled in exploiting the literal letter of the rules. Any other leader would have resigned following the ERG-inspired confidence vote last year – Thatcher resigned after a significant number, though not a majority, expressed no confidence in her. Likewise for the bumbling empty suits on the 1922 committee, their influence and power proves to be worthless if the incumbent leader simply ignores them.

      Is this a bad thing though ? The Brexit Party has no way of removing Farage as far as I can see, so maybe best not to complain.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 11:26 am | Permalink

      Bryan,

      Could I tell you a thing or two about IDS losing the leadership! But I will keep it brief so as not to betray a confidence.

      My family and I were having afternoon tea on the lawn at the home of an MP – someone I thought of at that time as a Eurosceptic and a friend. He let it slip that if the Tories didn’t perform well in the coming local elections, IDS would be ousted. Seeing the seriousness of that, I was able to get word to IDS via another and much more trusted friend, but to no avail in the end. The Parliamentary party plunged the knife and thus deprived us of the services of a man who could do a fantastic job of PM even now, and those local elections weren’t nearly as bad as they might have been given that the party was still coming back from Major’s 1997 drubbing.

      If we compare how quick the Tories were to get rid of a good Eurosceptic leader, and how slow they are now to get rid of a phenomenally bad ‘remain’ leader, we get some idea of the nature and scale of the problem. We need to be quite clear, they want her to stay and see their massive anti-democratic con through to the very end.

      It isn’t just Theresa May that needs to get kicked out, it is more than half of the parliamentary Tory party.

      And it’s no good trying to convert these people (unless we’re talking about booting them through the Rugby posts at Twickenham) because they will simply revert to type at the drop of a hat. They have subservience to the EU in their DNA. It’s a cancer that needs to be surgically removed.

      I suggest it is made compulsory, that a candidate’s true allegiance and voting record be printed in a prominent place on all of their election material so that the voters can tell at a glance who the traitors are. That should thin them out a bit!

      • Mark B
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

        Tad

        You express my thoughts and feelings on this very well. Thank you.

      • Bryan Harris
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

        Ted

        Thanks for that detail – I just saw it from a distance, as a disappointed supporter of IDS.

        Yes, from my viewpoint, also, I can agree that the party as a whole have moved even further left than was the case when Thatcher was ousted – Amazing to think that the EU had so many in thrall even at that time. Regeneration is the only option, because the current party is not fit for purpose

      • Bryan Harris
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

        Tad

        Many apologies for calling you Ted …!!

        (Finger trouble)

  7. Stred
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    Never underestimate Theresa May’s capacity to deceive and manipulate the procedure. From her days in the Home Office as the submarine to her forcing through the European Arrest Warrant without a proper debate in parliament, she has always been the same. That’s why they appointed her to do the work of the big money and EU loyal civil service.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

      Couldn’t agree more!

  8. Steve
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    Exactly, JR.

    I belive Theresa May’s task is to get that crap through Parliament. Furthermore I do not believe it was of her own making – evidence suggests otherwise.

    Time will reveal that this woman was the EU’s quisling.

    As for the fourth attempt to get the bill through, well, she should have been removed from office after the second attempt quite honestly.

    Of course she won’t publish it……it’s a secret you know. ‘Vote for it and then you get to see it’

    Take it as having sand thrown in your eyes by a despicable opponent, that’s how continentals react to challenge – too cowardly to fight anyone who isn’t blind.

    Personally I think when this is all over Mrs May will be living somewhere in Europe, probably France. I doubt very much she’ll be outside the protection of the ECJ.

    • Ian wragg
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      If it should get through then she would be invincible and never resign.
      I think physical force is required.

      • Hope
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 9:34 am | Permalink

        A tractor with chains with a straining weight of about twenty tonnes will be required to drag her out of No.10! Assuming the road surface is dry.

      • Steve
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:22 am | Permalink

        Ian Wragg

        “If it should get through then she would be invincible and never resign.
        I think physical force is required.”

        Yes I agree Ian. The very same occurred to me some months ago – She should really be marched out of the No 10 front door by a couple of heavies, and unclosed suitcases chucked out onto the street after her. And of course no warning, no car, no ‘security’. She can try thumbing a lift back to Sonning…..grin.

        • Fred H
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

          Ian, If it means her leaving No 10 for good, I’ll personally carry her things out to a van, ensure the front passenger seat is free for her, and drive her myself out to Sonning. Only a short trip for me to continue on home.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 11:59 am | Permalink

      Oh but chaps, really, that wouldn’t be the gentlemanly thing to do. It just isn’t cricket!

      Yeah right. There comes a time when the only way to get rid of people who don’t play by the rules, is not to play by the rules!

      Our need is great. The foe is fox-like and highly manipulative. To delay is to court disaster.

  9. Mick
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Mrs May is a woman scorned what’s your bets that to put a cherry on the cake she lets the remoaners in Westminster have a people’s vote “another referendum “, which would be fixed in favour of us staying shackled to the corpse of the Eu

    • JoolsB
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

      Agreed. She is no doubt plotting her revenge at this very minute to get her own back on that awful ERG for not backing her rotten surrender treaty. We haven’t seen anything yet. Some last minute spiteful act would not surprise me at all.

      • NickC
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 11:09 am | Permalink

        JoolsB, The last minute spiteful act is introducing the WA Bill, by-passing the requirement for a meaningful vote. Mrs May can now behave as though the principle of the WA is accepted. MPs will get bogged down in the details of the Bill and of procedure. She is – or is it civil servants like Olly Robbins are? – very cunning.

        Parliament needs to stop her going directly to the Bill stage.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

        If the Tories get another bashing in the European elections next week, we’re in with a chance of getting rid of this empty husk of a Prime Minister. But if they do better than expected, May won’t resign.

        She has staked everything on getting her awful deal through parliament – the party, its MPs, its MEPs, it’s local councillors, its grassroots, its credibility, and she’s even mortgaged its future. She really does pose an existential threat to the Tories (some will say that’s no bad thing, and when I look at Tory remainers, who am I to argue).

        Whatever this pro-EU hold is over May, it’s pretty powerful. However, if it’s down to her intransigence, then she really does need psychiatric help and removal for her own good as well as the good of the nation. A captain at sea can be removed if they become unfit. Errant Prime Ministers must surely be subject to the same code and principle.

    • Steve
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:25 am | Permalink

      Mick

      Oh indeed, I’ve said all along the woman will pull some spiteful nasty stunt.

  10. John Sheridan
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Mrs May does not want Parliament to have time to scrutinise the WAB in detail for fear of MPs becoming aware of how advantageous it is to the EU. She is so desperate to be able to claim that she took the UK out of the EU that she will accept any treaty that the EU offer.

    The idea that passing this flawed treaty will lead to the demise of the Brexit party and the rejuvenation of Conservative fortunes is foolish.

  11. javelin
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    I think the Treaty would be a good excuse to resign before events related to the Trump Spygate Investigation overtakes her and her advisors.

    If May was shown to be under a “spell” of Robbins to deliver Brino, and afraid of being exposed on Spygate, then the Conservatives could claim it was bad actors in the civil service who messed up Brexit. Spygate could be used to clear the house of bad actors in the UK as it will do in the US.

    • Martin
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      Why do you call it “Brino”?

      As citizens we lose our rights but a tin of beans will have “regulatory alignment”. Does Mrs May wonder why her deal has few supporters in the country!

      If she had bothered to discuss things before she triggered article 50 she might have brought home something that somebody might agree with.

      As for Mrs May being under the “spell” of a civil servant – civil servants negotiate what they are asked to and what is possible. Mrs May painted herself in with red lines then failed to go on the TV and lost an election.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

        I agree. If ever one singular event can truly turn public opinion against a candidate, that was the pivotal moment that cost Theresa May David Cameron’s hard-won majority at the 2017 General Election. She wouldn’t go on television to debate with others and sent Amber Rudd in her place.

        I have played the guitar since 1972, and going out before a live audience has never fazed me.
        That is because I know what I’m doing, I know my lines and I can ad-lib to bring a bit of entertainment to an audience (not that I am bothered about such things these days). Theresa May is spineless, dull, robotic, and isn’t across her brief. She panics and flaps, and she must have known that if she went on live television, as soon as she was quizzed by other leaders, she’d fluff it.

        May’s unsuitability was exposed at that moment, and the best time to dispense with her services was immediately after the results were in. Two years on and we can see just what a bad decision it was to let her stay on. We now need to get rid post haste and by whatever means we can. Corbyn might call another vote of no-confidence once the European Parliant election results are in, and the sh*t really WILL hit the fan if he wins it!

    • Chris
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:45 am | Permalink

      Yes, javelin, the draining of the swamp in the USA is going to be greatly accelerated in the next few months and making the key politicians and media people accountable is a very necessary part of cleaning up the politics of the USA which has been corrupted over decades, but particularly under the Obama administration, in my view.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

        Agreed. We have a rather large swamp we need to drain right here in the UK. We need to get rid of all the slime-ball traitors in parliament and the civil service who rally to a different flag.

  12. Nigl
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    A self denying bunker mentality. Always the last state of mind of any leader before the inevitable happens. It is to your parties shame and maybe demise that it was allowed to go this far.

  13. Alan Jutson
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    “Mrs May’s refusal……..”

    Which is why it is impossible to understand why the 1922 committee has allowed her the chance to do so yet again.

    • Fred H
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:32 am | Permalink

      I can understand it. They are showing what an ineffective bunch of cowards and appeasers they are!

      • Tad Davison
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

        Well said Fred.

    • JoolsB
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink

      Graham Brady apparently likes May and has therefore shown himself to be spineless and utterly useless. With the exception of a few honourable Tory MPs including our host, he is in good company.

    • Steve
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

      Alan

      Because they are not the guardians of democracy people suppose. They act for big business and the EU.

  14. Mark B
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    Sir John I think this is the first time here that you have openly called for your leader to resign. Personally, whilst I do not disagree that she should, I think the problem is far worse than just a recalcitrant PM.

    As we move towards both the EU elections and the Peterborough bi-election we see both a government and party in deep crisis. Losing voters is one thing, losing both members and financial backers is entirely another. Alas I fear, her removal is too late.

    • jerry
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:00 am | Permalink

      @Mark B; “[the] party in deep crisis”

      Indeed, and it has been in crisis since 1997, if not 1990, hence why it was out of power for 13 years.

      Regarding your second from last sentence, all three problems were extant and in full view well before the WA became public [1], two before even the 2016 referendum or TM became PM, by all means blame TM for kowtowing to that dammed awful WA but that’s just a symptom of a much deeper and serious illness, the party needs to start treating the underlying Pleurisy, not the just the sniffling nose…

      [1] and the EC/EU27 have exploited them to the full

      • Tad Davison
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

        I’m inclined to agree with you Jerry, I’ve got both written and anecdotal evidence to back up your words. Margaret Thatcher was having a tussle with her ‘wets’ back in the mid-1980s.

        • jerry
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

          Tad, we might well agree on the whys but we do not agree on the wherefores, Thatcher was the problem, not the ‘wets’ – high unemployment rates with apparent little real help (unless people rioted), the coal strike, Westland, and the Poll tax, just to name some of the issues – the Tories would have been out of power long before 1997 had Labour not been having their own factional bun fights.

          • Tad Davison
            Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

            I’ll surprise you then Jerry, I wouldn’t disagree with you on that either. I often felt things could have and should have been done differently to mitigate the worst effects of the changes, especially where people’s livelihoods and (in)ability to pay were concerned. People suffered real hardship, and that I cannot excuse.

    • Andy
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      Genuinely – who cares? The Tories are irrelevant.

      It is a party of the old fashioned elite.

      Run by posh public schoolboys. Funded by the landed gentry.

      Misogynistic, bigoted, backward.

      Look at their support among younger people. Negligible.

      Ah, you say. But people have always become more ‘conservative’ as they have aged.

      Not now. Brexit is a permanent deal breaker for millions.

      The zombie party of the walking dead does not realise what it has become.

      But whether it is at the next general election, or the one after that or the one after that, the wipe out is coming. And it will be brutal.

      And then come the Brexit public inquiries and the prison sentences.

      • NickC
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 11:43 am | Permalink

        Andy, Your comments have become increasingly unhinged. You initially described yourself as a rich, middle class, middle aged, Remain with two kids and a prosperous business from which you had an inordinate amount of time to spare making thousands of comments on political blogs, who funded the – in your opinion – 17.4m far right angry Tory pensioners who voted Leave.

        It has been downhill ever since. Indeed you give the impression of having had three distinct personalities in succession. Now like Violet Elizabeth Bott you declare you’ll thcweam and thcweam about Brexit, threatening that the Tory party’s brutal wipe out will come in – – wait for it – – 2032!! Meanwhile everyone else thinks the wipe out will happen next Thursday. You’re just not giving value for money any more.

        • Fred H
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

          NickC, in reality he is an out-of-work failed stand-up-comic.
          Some is so off the wall, it is funny.

    • Turboterrier
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      Mark B

      Me three and a hell of a lot of others.

  15. JoolsB
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    The worry now is that enough Labour MPs will vote for it to go through because they are worried that if Boris or another Brexiteer succeed May, they will go for the no deal option.

    • Steve
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

      Jools

      If they do, then something stinks, and I mean REALLY STINKS.

      They’ve announced that cross party talks failed….think about it.

      • JoolsB
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

        It already stinks Steve. Various reporters were speculating yesterday that even if Corbyn puts a three line whip on his MPs, they think a lot of them might rebel rather than allow a future Brexiteer PM to take us out on no deal.

  16. BlokeInBrum
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    The time for Conservative MPs to act in response to the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement has long passed.
    A different course could have been plotted at many junctures, it required only that MPs adhered to their principles and stated support for their manifesto commitments and for the results of the Referendum.
    At this point we are rapidly accelerating past Tragedy and into Farce.
    What, may I ask, is going to be the effect on the Tory party if, somehow, this Bill is passed on its fourth attempt?
    Has anyone in the Cabinet even contemplated the hell that this will unleash on the Party and on the country as a whole?
    That Theresa May has pursued such a path is unbelievable and shocking. That the party as a whole, and the’22 commitee had done nothing about her is even worse.
    Your party is facing an extinction level event Sir John. When will the Cabinet wake up and do something about it?

  17. Dominic
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    May isn’t the problem in the sense that she’s a known quantity and capable of the most appalling behaviour. Her entire career is a series of capitulations, lies and vile actions to promote herself and massage debate to a silence. We know what she is and we know what needs to be done

    The real problem is the Tory party that since 1990 has embraced the EU with gusto and bent to the will of Labour, their client State construction and their social policy fascism. MPs of an unprincipled political party. Lost. Clueless. Spineless.

    We need a leader like Farage. This man is under continual, daily attack from all sides. Those attacks are sometimes physical. That’s bravery. I couldn’t do what he does. I admire his guts. He reminds me of Thatcher. The Tories need another Thatcher, desperately.

    Boris Johnson is a careerist. I want to see a conviction politician as leader without which the Tory party is DEAD

    • Chris
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:47 am | Permalink

      Well said, Dominic.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

      I agree, but with the odd exception, the parliamentary Conservative party has a predilection for wet lettuce untrustworthy treacherous duplicitous jerks! Give me Farage any day to what the Tories lumber us with, especially May and Major!

      Could anyone be a bigger disaster than those two? I’m sure the Tories will try their best to find one and shoehorn them in.

  18. J Bush
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Have I got this right? May is hoping to get enough votes to ratify a Bill very few have seen, for her WA that has been voted down 3 times!

    If I have got this right, then talk of the ‘Westminster bubble’ is complimentary, a ‘Bedlam Bubble’ is more apt.

  19. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    Duplicity and mendacity are the order of the day, not just in 10 Downing Street but throughout Parliament. Mrs May must be one of, if not, the worst Prime Ministers in our history but she is still in office. Ironic that Mrs Thatcher, one of the best in our history, was ignominiously ejected by her cabinet. This week showed again the feebleness of the Conservative Party.
    Our democracy is being undermined by MPs entrusted to uphold and defend it. MPs voted to hold a referendum, they voted to trigger Article 50 but most do all they can to overturn the referendum result almost 3 years later. Most of them voted Remain and can’t accept not having their own way. This Parliament does not represent the people.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

      Well said Brian!

  20. Dominic Johnson
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    They’re trying to work out a constitutional fudge to pass it without a majority vote

    • Steve
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

      Dominic

      “They’re trying to work out a constitutional fudge to pass it without a majority vote”

      Is that even legal ?

  21. Richard1
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    This charade is becoming very damaging for the economy now. Maybe we need a 2nd referendum – either WTO brexit vs remain or a 2-stage one with leave vs remain and then if leave, WTO vs Brino. I can’t see how else it’s going to get resolved

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

      It’s already been resolved. Leave won. Any talk of a 2nd referendum or this fudge or that fudge is a distraction by those who don’t want to honour what the people voted for. I say to hell with the lot of them. Which part of OUT don’t they get?

  22. Original Richard
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Mrs. May has been told to cling on as long as possible until the Conservative Party finally forces her out of office, even if the Party is destroyed in the process.

    In the meantime she is working to have Parliament cancel Brexit, working to promote remaining in the EU, and signing up to all new EU schemes.

    Whilst working on a way to rig a second referendum “to settle the matter once and for all time” (like her backstop arrangement).

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

      My thoughts exactly.

    • Original Richard
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

      Eventually the EU supporting Conservative Party High Command will be finally pushed into removing Mrs. May, either through self-preservation or, failing that, by British businesses who are now starting to say publicly that the prospect of Mr. Corbyn becoming PM is a far more serious threat to them than Brexit.

      In other words, British businesses are now admitting that Brexit is not the worst catastrophe that can happen…

      If Mrs. May can be removed and importantly with new Presidents and Parliament installed in the EU over the summer then, with a new leader who genuinely believes in Brexit, there is no reason that Mrs. May’s surrender WA cannot be ditched and a more balanced relationship with the EU, which respects the referendum result, can be negotiated.

  23. Millie Good
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    “Will Mrs May really ask us to vote for a fourth time on this unpopular Treaty by bringing forward the Bill to ratify it? She says they will.”
    Yes that is correct Sir. You seem to be in one of my grammars.

  24. Kevin
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    Theresa May’s proud boast – when asked by Sammy Wilson if there was just
    one proposal by the EU negotiators that she did not accept – was that she had
    made them add Britain to the backstop as well as Northern Ireland. She did not
    make them give up their claims to NI, she played “hardball” and put Britain under their
    yoke too!

  25. Julie Dyson
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    While many WTO Brexit supporters would no doubt like to see more (worthy!) politicians switching to the Brexit Party as did the four Welsh Assembly members recently, most of us also accept just how difficult that would be for such as ERG members, whose primary concern must be to try to rally around a party leader they can support and who shares their beliefs and aims — however much we ordinary folk doubt this can save the Conservatives now.

    My (purely hypothetical) question to you is can you envisage any situation in which these understandable party loyalties would be stretched to breaking point and a significant chunk of the ERG finally break off, whether to form their own party or join such as the Brexit Party? And what would that situation look like?

    I suppose it really comes down to: at what point does Country come before Party?

    Reply My main aim is not to save the Conservative party but to deliver the promises the Conservatives made to voters in 2017 and above all to implement the referendum which is central to our democracy. I judge I have most chance of influencing that at the moment by being in the Conservative party with a vote to get a leader who might honour the promises made.

    • Julie Dyson
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 11:20 am | Permalink

      Thank you most sincerely for that considered and reassuring reply.

    • Chris
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

      “might” is not good enough (last sentence). You should not settle for that.

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply.

      Interesting ‘at the moment’ phrase.

      Clearly the scale of opposition and total distsin if not hatred for Tory duplicity and the cowardice of many MPs is being understood. The party is rotten to the core and needs to be annihilated. Get out to preserve your dignity and reputation while you can as it cannot be reformed.

    • Fred H
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

      Sir John, while I understand the ethics you cling to, the situation requires a step or two that you & colleagues will have to take. Surely you can see that when the votes to select next Tory leader take place( I don’t say PM because the imminent GE is likely to prevent that), the decent types you prefer will be removed vote by vote, until you are left with a choice between 3, where the final 2 then go out to the membership. At that point you no longer have a say in the nature of the leader to be selected. I fear those 2 will be from the current REMAINERS in the party, irrespective of whether we managed to get out of the EU, or continue shackled to it.

  26. A.Sedgwick
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Matt Hancock with Andrew Pearce on LBC last evening hopefully will sink into political oblivion with May.

    Supreme irony calling anti measles vaccinators liars dripping with blood whilst peddling this WA Treaty as meeting all Leave requirements – disgraceful. Unfortunately AP is too nice a person to really nail the key points Hancock ignored e.g. Iris border nonsense, ECJ, trade agreements to be approved by EU, £39b+++++ for nothing, no taxation without representation – he ain’t no John Hancock.

  27. Denis Cooper
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    Well, it seems a Bill has been drafted …

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/how-the-labour-tory-talks-on-brexit-finally-collapsed_uk_5cdedb28e4b09e05780333eb?utm_hp_ref=uk-brexit

    “Inside The Secret Brexit Talks: How The Labour-Tory Negotiations Finally Collapsed”

    “And some of those involved think that the negotiations were not in vain. It is understood that the Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been ‘improved’ in some key areas as a result of the cross-party talks, not least on workers’ rights, environmental policy and giving Parliament a role on future UK-EU trade talks.”

    So why on earth will Theresa May not publish it as a draft Bill and invite everybody else to comment on it and maybe further improve it?

    Oh, and this is in the same article:

    “Labour’s negotiators felt there were three separate factions they had to deal with. The first was the ‘sensibles’, led by David Lidington, Barwell, Greg Clark, Philip Hammond and chief Brexit civil servant Olly Robbins.

    The second was the ‘pragmatic Brexiteers’ of Michael Gove, Steve Barclay and Chief Whip Julian Smith.

    The third faction was “outside the room”, but nevertheless a real thorn in the side of the talks: the ‘hard Brexiteers’ of Liam Fox, Andrea Leadsom and others who were clearly unhappy at any watering down of May’s opposition to a future customs union between the UK and EU.”

    Why is Labour so insistent on having a permanent comprehensive customs union?

    Not for any positive reason, such as ease of trade, but a negative, anti-democratic, reason, to prevent a future Tory government having the power to make trade deals:

    https://www.facebook.com/JonAshworth/videos/441833109925905/

    “… the key thing is the government want to be able to do their own trade deals. And my concern is that if we have a trade deal with the United States for example, that could mean Trump’s America and big private healthcare corporations getting their hands on NHS contracts.”

    Oh, and potentially agreeing to allow US-style “chlorinated chicken”:

    https://labour.org.uk/press/jeremy-corbyn-says-brexit-compromise-talks-government-gone-far-can/

    “In recent days we have heard senior Cabinet ministers reject any form of customs union, regardless of proposals made by government negotiators. And despite assurances we have been given on protection of environmental, food and animal welfare standards, the International Trade Secretary has confirmed that importing chlorinated chicken as part of a US trade deal remains on the table.”

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

      What’s all this hysteria about chlorinated chicken? Can someone who knows explain what is meant to be wrong with it. Aren’t our prepared salads washed in chlorinated water? And I’m just back from a swim in an open air pool which I dare say is chlorinated.

      I’m in Arizona. I had roast chicken a couple of days ago. Should I be worried? People are not dying in the street

  28. Mark Cannon
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    Erratum: for “this draft Treaty” read “this daft Treaty”.

  29. javelin
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Civil service bias is theft.

    We need laws to keep the civil service neutral. When you consider the billions they control as our money then it’s like stealing from a bank.

  30. formula57
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Had the 1922 Committee had self-interest in mind and/or the interests of the country, T. May should have been forced out the same afternoon they met.

  31. ChrissyG
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    What fool would sign up to such an important bill without reading the details? And, if the details aren’t there to be seen isn’t it obvious there’s something dodgy going off? Really, it’s like back alley behaviour. How low our prime minister has stooped. Giving her more time and space to play her manipulative games has gone on for far to long. The damage she’s done to our country’s reputation is beyond measure. I feel nothing but contempt for the woman.

    • Isabel Harpur
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

      I totally agree with you. May never tells us What the EU has to Offer the UK. We all know what they want which is The United States of Europe in which we will be another State controlled fully by a President which could be the lovely.Verhofstadt.
      No wonder we have not seen the full Legal Opinion of Sir Geoffrey Cox on the Real Terms concealed in 585 pages.May and Ollie’s so call Deal is a Treaty agreed by the EU Officials prior to presenting to Chequers. May and her Cronies are keen to be seen by the EU how determined they are to alienate All Our Loyal Allies.G5 Security to China,British Passport printed in France and dear knows what other Dark Forces @ Work.

  32. Gareth Warren
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    Mrs May aught to have resigned, but as a voter I would recommend both yourself and every other conservative MP to treat this as more than a vote on the WA, but a vote of confidence in Theresa May.

    The risk is of the shock of the EU elections convincing a few more remainer labour MPs to vote for it out of fear, which is why a strong vote against it is certainly needed.

    While Corbyn is not very pro-EU I don’t think he believes a no deal brexit will work, his weakness is in economics and if we do achieve a WTO brexit that will be his downfall. Voting down the WA is one thing, getting a pro-brexit PM will be an even greater challenge. Whoever they are they will need to rebuild the confidence of the country in the conservative party.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

      Corbyn is a hostage to his remainer MPs of which there are many. Tom Watson is perhaps more influential than Corbyn and that would make him de facto leader of the Labour Party.

  33. Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    It is walk the plank time for May. Get on with it.

  34. Chris
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    In the meantime, it is reported that May is back to trying to tempt the DUP to get them on board. This yet again seems to confirm that she is prepared to indulge in any treachery to push her vassal state treaty through. It is not just the backstop that is wrong with the WA, it is the whole document.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      Just think where we’d be now if May got an outright majority at the 2017 General Election. The DUP would have been treated as an irrelevance and sidelined, and the UK would be locked into the EU until by their grace they said we could leave, not withstanding any devious convoluted treaty changes in the meantime. Presumably after they have bled us for countless billions to shore up their spendthrift ways and financial black holes.

      Yes of course there would be valiant Brexiteers putting up a fight, but not in sufficient numbers to change the arithmetic. This is why to survive, the Tory Party now needs to change, but it is well overdue.

      In 2005, I wrote a treatise called ‘From the ground up – a voting man’s perspective’ aimed primarily at 4 of the 5 leadership candidates but also given to prominent people within the party. I said back then that we needed to have a different type of parliamentary candidate or lose contact with the people, but like so many other works of merit, it fell on deaf ears. They would not be deflected away from the EU and the insidious matriculation thereof.

      Having sown the wind, the Tories are about to reap the whirlwind. These powerful vortices have a nasty habit of obliterating everything in their path, and leaving utter destruction in their wake.

  35. BR
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Why not write an open letter asking her that question?

    At the same time you can point out that the delay/secrecy equate to having too little time for analysis and debate and those factors are reason enough to vote against something that would bind this country in perpetuity.

    Other MPs should be following the same reasoning creating the same pressures.

    I hope you will also be persuading the backsliders such as JRM, Boris that they should be voting against it this time. Boris’ vote in favour last time round damaged his leadership credentials – if he votes for it again many members won’t be voting for him (if he makes it to the final vote).

    Reply Yes, a serious leadership candidate must vote against the Withdrawal Treaty Bill if it comes before us.

    • Dominic
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 11:29 am | Permalink

      Priti Patel would make a superb Tory leader. She is exceptional in all respects.

      She’s defiantly Eurosceptic and she understands the threat of posed by Marxism and liberal left fascism

      Johnson is a careerist. We don’t need one of those as leader of the Tory party.

      We need a principled and moral person who embraces freedom, liberty and the individual

      • Tad Davison
        Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

        My choice right now – Owen Paterson, but other candidates are available.

        • Simeon
          Posted May 18, 2019 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

          Neither Paterson nor Patel have the slightest chance of becoming leader. There are not sufficient numbers of Tory MPs with the wit to put a good candidate before the membership. And even if there were, a Gove or a Johnson or even a Hunt would win the members vote. The Conservative party’s prospects are hopeless, though they may die a slow death – never underestimate the powerful vested interests.

          I’d ask Sir John who he’d like to see as leader, but I suspect he would not be comfortable publicly endorsing one of the realistic, but hopeless, candidates, or one of the trustworthy, but utterly unrealistic candidates. Sir John is an intelligent man, and I suspect he knows we are witnessing the final days of the Conservative party.

    • Chris
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

      I have no regard for Rees-Mogg and Johnson since they ditched their principles and supported the WA. Not suitable or convincing leadership candidates. Boris will waver again when it suits him, I believe, and Rees-Mogg seems weak, in my mind, and all talk.

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

      Not only must a new leader have a clean Brexit record but must dispatch all the present cabinet to the four winds. Compromise and appeasing any remainer view will be a disaster. Johnson just wants power and that he will work with Rudd shows he’s no good., Rees-Mogg not a candidate in my view but he just likes to display his intelligence and has shown his Tories uber alles belief by voting for the surrender treaty. Leadership from the ERG and the 1922 committee is pathetic. Brady needs replacing.

      The party must be totally destroyed however. It deserves no sympathy and no final chance.

  36. BillMayes
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Your thoughts and the opinions of Conservative Backbenchers, Councillors, Party members and the General public, fall on deaf ears when it comes for Mrs May to do the ‘honourable thing’.
    Unfortunately for this country, she lacks the leadership qualities of Mrs Thatcher and as is so blatantly obvious, her personal sense of honour.
    Go with dignity, Mrs May. like a loyal British Prime Minister.

  37. ian
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    As you have now witnessed, it is the person in each area that you vote for welds the power of parliament, not a leader of a party and not the party cabinet, even if they had a majority in parliament the bill would still not go through.

    If you pick socialists and communists in your area that’s what you get. Over 500 of these people in parliament now all fighting for the small minority groups for votes to give them something over the majority of people living in this country, leaving the majority of people in England without a voice.

  38. Fred H
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    I spent an interesting few minutes with the latest YouGov EU voting intentions Poll, plus a calculator, plus the description of the D’Hondt voting system. Assuming 2.3m votes again for South East region, and the Poll predicting BREXIT 35%, LIB 16%, LAB 15%, GREENS 10%, CON 9%, CHUK 5%, UKIP 3%.
    My result shows in the 10 rounds order: – Brexit, Brexit, LIB, LAB, Brexit, Greens, CONS, Brexit, LIB, Brexit. Summary: – BREXIT 5 seats, LIB 2 seats, LAB 1 seat, CON 1 seat, GREENS 1 seat.
    Should the votes increase to 2.5m, or decrease to 2.1m the Summary becomes BREXIT 4 seats, LIB 2 seats, LAB 2 seats, CON 1 seat, Greens 1 seat.
    Curious system!

  39. David
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Any new leader of the Tories must be a Brexiteer who will not and has not voted for the TM WAG. There is no place for buffoonery or showmanship now. May has shown herself as King John Charles 1st Antony Eden , the Conservative party is heading for a political grave and metaphoricaly will join Ted Heath who started the downhill course in 1972 by joining the country by deception to the Common Market..

  40. Nicky Roberts
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Surely her prevention of the publication of this treaty is legally questionable. Mrs May has continued to act secretively and of her own accord for three years, she has failed to consult and if she ever did consult usually she failed to heed advice. She is behaviour is that of a dictator and I don’t think for one minute it will change. Graham Brady should have forced her hand at the last meeting yet again failed to do so. This cannot be allowed to continue unchallenged.

  41. Denis Cooper
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/9100226/theresa-may-concessions-dup-brexit-deal/

    “Theresa May to put concessions to DUP in a final bid to win Brexit deal support”

    “One concession will see No10 commit to alternative arrangements to replace the Irish backstop by the end of 2020”

    But as well as being made part of our domestic law that would have to also be recorded as a UK reservation attached to the Withdrawal Agreement and the Political Declaration, and at least noted by the EU as such even if it was not publicly accepted by the EU as potential grounds for abrogation if that promised change did not come to pass.

  42. ian
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    The socialist MPs in the con party would never support or vote for a Brexiteer leader of the con party, anything that a Brexiteer leader of the con party try to do would be voted down right away by its own party MPs, any ideas they have would never reach the floor of the house to be voted on.

    That’s not to say that grassroots may be able to vote a Brexiteer in as leader of the con party if allowed by the party in the first place.

    What the good of Brexiteer leader of the con party who may have only one-third of the MPs in the party supporting them.

    All of the new Brexiteer leaders’ policy would have to be for the EU in one way or another and towards socialism as they are now.
    Once again no voice for the majority of people who live in England, have you learnt nothing over the last 4 years.

  43. VotedOut
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    The PM is demonstrably out of her depth and has been since entering office. She likes the trappings of office, but like the debtor in denial, ignores the demands for payment, living day by day.

    She has deferred all decisions to civil servants and policy wonks with all to predictable results. A classic behaviour of a person ill equipped for the job they are in and a national disgrace. Not since Ethelred the Unready has this nation been governed by a more despised leader – and for good reason.

    The pathetic failure of Conservative MP’s to force a “tearful” PM to resign and instead agree a “timetable” for her departure says more about how incompetent those pathetic Conservative MPs are than the abilities of our dancing PM.

  44. Original Richard
    Posted May 18, 2019 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    That Mrs. May can continue to say that her WA is Brexit shows that she believes that if she tells a lie big enough, and frequently enough, it will be believed.

One Trackback

  1. […] “Will Mrs May really ask us to vote for a fourth time on this unpopular Treaty by bringing forward the Bill to ratify it? She says they will. Why then does she  not publish it so we can talk about it properly? Is it so bad it must be kept secret?” (link) […]

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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