US democracy

President Trump has failed to sustain a case of electoral fraud or miscounting. He was wrong to encourage protests on the day Congress met to ratify the result of the Electoral College votes.

The results of the two Senate run offs in Georgia will be highly significant. If both seats have been taken by the Democrats as the media claim the US will likely opt for a high spend higher tax strategy allied to a major decarbonisation drive. Expect plenty of drama from a 50/50 Senate.

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  1. Garland
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Mr Jacob Rees Mogg said President Trump would be Britain’s best friend after Brexit . Mr Farage said much the same. I wonder if you agree? And what now?

    • Peter
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

      ‘President Trump has failed to sustain a case of electoral fraud or miscounting.‘

      There were numerous claims of electoral fraud which have been reported. The question is were these claims disproved or largely ignored by the media?

      Many Americans still believe the election was stolen.

      This issue is not going away.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        The accuser has to prove their case with evidence.

        It is not for the groundlessly accused to prove their innocence.

        If you cannot grasp this then you have no place in civilised, enlightened society.

        • jon livesey
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

          You are talking complete and utter nonsense. This is about miscounted votes. Voting appeals are handled under civil law in the US. You are talking about criminal law.

          I think you have been watching too many US crime shows on the telly.

        • Edward2
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

          But the Courts in America have refused to even hear their case.
          If they had, a lot of the temper would have been reduced.
          That is what courts are for.

          • bill brown
            Posted January 10, 2021 at 10:04 am | Permalink


            they were heard at the higher federal and suprme courts in teh States your claim does not stack up, not even for teh Supreme Court

        • Fred H
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

          you and evidence – never the twain shall meet.

        • Peter
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

          I suppose it is easier to ignore evidence and claim any accusations are groundless.

          Not that you are biased, of course.

        • NickC
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

          And someone like you, Martin, who supported violent BLM and Antifa rioters has no place in civilised society.

          • Jim Whitehead
            Posted January 8, 2021 at 10:08 am | Permalink


        • David W
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

          I watched all hearings, and there is plenty of evidence, laws broken and procedures not followed plus ballot stuffing which is on video.
          Five state legislatures wrote to asked Mike Pence not to certified as they had concerns due to evidence which was presented after the 14th of November. I have watched every day and the legal system has not functioned. This issue is not going anywhere and 50% (has been stated) do not believe the outcome is legitimate.

          Lots of talk of creating a third party.

          • Richard Clark
            Posted January 9, 2021 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

            You watched all hearings? Really? By what means? You can document your activity with proof of your claims?

            If you did you as you claim you will know that all were thrown out because no evidence was produced. So why do you persist with unfounded claims?

          • Edward2
            Posted January 9, 2021 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

            Lower courts in local Democrats areas refused proper hearings.
            No real case was heard at this lower level.

      • Jim Whitehead
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

        The ‘establishment’ has acted and succeeded as predicted by Rush Limbaugh on October 10th 2016.
        Donald Trump has been victimised by the MSM since then in order to ensure that nobody even thinks of trying to ‘drain the swamp’ again.
        The swamp has not been drained.
        The herd of the establishment, political and commentariat, have closed ranks, and rank is now the swamp.

        • Ed M
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 1:48 am | Permalink

          Trump, during much of his Presidency, has been very much part of the swamp.

          The swamp envelops every area of American political life both Democrat and Republican – both Liberal and Conservative.

          Until America comes to realise this, then it will further slip into demise, along, to a degree, with the rest of The Western World as it is, sadly, overtaken by China over the next few years.

      • Richard
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

        The problem is that the US courts etc refused to address the substantial allegations, eg here is a 270 page summary of election fraud. Over 52,000 sworn affidavits supported the various legal cases.

      • Cheshire Girl
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 7:45 am | Permalink

        The Media have a thing about Trump, and have had for ages. No news broadcast was ever complete without an article gleefully pointing out what he was doing wrong.

        Channel 4 News was a prime example. So much so, that I used the call them ‘ The UK Arm of the Democratic Party of the USA’.

        Impartial, they were not!

        • Jim Whitehead
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 10:04 am | Permalink

          +1, they never missed an opportunity to include a sneer, especially Sopel, Snow, and there were others. It was their badge of togetherness, to the exclusion of any dissenting sentiment.

    • Edward2
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

      Trump was a good friend to the UK.
      Better than ” back of the queue” President Obama.

      • Hope
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

        I am more surprised people did not do the same thing here over MPs corrupt, unpatriotic behavior to thwart Brexit by colluding with a foreign power or the 2009 expense scandal when it was clear to everyone that MPs and parliament were not fit for purpose- a repeat of Majors govt. and party. Any other organization would have been disbanded.

        Trump was elected on The Swamp needed to be cleared. MSM, tech and establishment proved him right by their behaviour towards him from themget go. Including Obamas administration. Hopefully the inquiry by Durham will come to light soon unless Democrats bury it.

        In 2009 over 302 MPs fiddled or were overpaid expenses. The abuse was so wide spread it would be inconceivable that every MP was aware, but turned a blind eye. The speaker and leader of the house used huge amounts taxpayer money to prevent the shocking corrupt dishonest behaviour becoming public knowledge. All parties promised changed and it came to pass MPs and party leaders have, again, stopped and covered up any change. Quite disgraceful. Ten years of pay rises to take MPs in the top 3% of earners. Why should the public tolerate it JR? What have you done to bring about reform of raising MP standards? You like to show us your speeches.

        Now you make specious allegations that Trump has failed to sustain a case of electoral fraud. About as credible as Russians helped him get elected! I have seen witnesses give accounts and video evidence to convince me fraud took place. The authorities or media have not even investigated any claim! Even the election commisiomer thought there was a case to answer. Look at Sky Australia.

        Perhaps like the two expense scandals you bury your head once more and pretend nothing happened?

        Reply I stated a simple fact that he did not find a court to accept fraud had happened. I did not presume myself to judge if any fraud took place.

      • Fred H
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

        how exactly?

      • Ed M
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 1:50 am | Permalink

        If Trump calls Pence a coward, I don’t see how we can call him a ‘friend’ to the UK – he couldn’t care less about the UK (or the USA for that matter).

        That doesn’t make Obama any better – but Obama is history.

        • rose
          Posted January 9, 2021 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

          How can a God fearing man like Pence certify a fraudulent election? He knows the facts.

    • Paul Cuthbertson
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

      Donald Trump will be inaugurated as the next President of the USA. Nothing can stop what is coming, NOTHING. The Washington DC and other Swamps will be drained. Panic in Washington DC. Panic in London.

      • Richard Clark
        Posted January 9, 2021 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

        Dream on….

        • Paul Cuthbertson
          Posted January 10, 2021 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

          Like the majority you have no clue as to what is about to happen. Panic in Washington DC. Panic in London. SO MANY INVOLVED.

          • Richard Clark
            Posted January 11, 2021 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

            Keep dreaming…

      • hefner
        Posted January 10, 2021 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

        Oh, another original commenter and a bit of a clairvoyant to help.

        Sir John, really, how do you manage to attract so many brilliant policy analysts on this blog?

  2. DOM
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    You’ve left a sour taste that I’ll find impossible to shift

    • Lester Cynic Beedell
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:15 pm | Permalink


    • Iago
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

      The taste is disgust, Dom.

    • Lynn
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

      +1 if you don’t want to know about the proof, make sure you don’t allow the proofs to be put in any Court.
      This is the end of Democracy and the Rule of Law.
      And the British establishment sides with the fraudsters.
      What an unmitigated disgrace.

      • jon livesey
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

        “This is the end of Democracy and the Rule of Law.”

        And that explains why Trump conceded this morning, and Biden will be duly sworn in?

        • Lynn
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:07 am | Permalink


          • hefner
            Posted January 10, 2021 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

            Among my stays in foreign countries, I spent two years in France (mid-1982 to mid-1984) at a time when there were four communist ministers in the Mitterrand/Mauroy socialist government. And you know what? It was not the end of democracy. Following the real economic difficulties, the PM Mauroy was replaced with Fabius then in 1986 with Chirac. The rule of law did not disappear either.

            The utterly ridiculous on this blog should look at bit outside their fish bowl.
            And those who think Biden is a socialist or marxist should have their head examined.

      • Jim Whitehead
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

        +1, and well put, Lynn

  3. Mark B
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    Good morning – again.

    If Senator Biden wins, as seems the most likely, it’s goodbye Western Democracy. I think high tax, high spend and all the Climate Change nonsense will be the least of their worries as jobs and wealth head across the Pacific and immigration skyrockets.

    Anyone care to disagree ?


    • Iain Moore
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

      No , but I would add woke identity politics nonsense on steroids

    • Simeon
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

      To be fair, I’m not convinced Trump would have much stemmed the tide anyway. But Biden and the Democrats will undoubtedly speed up the process – with the UK no doubt standing shoulder to shoulder…

    • jon livesey
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

      Yes, and of course anyone with any common sense or a functioning memory will disagree. With a hung Senate, which will depend on the VP’s casting vote, Biden will actually lose many of his proposals. There will almost always be some Democratic Senator who objects to some Biden measure.

      All those nonsense about “goodbye Western Democracy” is silly and childish.

      • Lynn
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:09 am | Permalink

        You don’t understand the Chinese tactics yet, but you will. No Senator will object. Trumps defeat and the acceptance of the rule of the mob is the end of our civilized world.

      • Jim Whitehead
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:59 am | Permalink

        I struggle to think of how the political climate could change such that yesterday’s Pravda pages in the DT might revert to disinterested investigative journalism again.
        Which independent minded Democrats will break from the amoral pack of AOC, Pelosi, Waters, Schiff, et al, and why have they been silent these last many years?
        “We have no Constitution which functions in the absence of a moral people “, John Adams

  4. Lester Cynic Beedell
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    It just goes to show how successful Biden and the vested interests have been, they’ve had 4 years to plan for it, all the tech companies are anti- Trump, 125% voter turnout, people going to vote in person only to be told that they had already voted, Biden performed a major miracle in raising the dead to vote for him…. alleluia!

    All being swept under the carpet with little fuss, China, Iran and Russia will be celebrating and we will live to regret it, Biden is a supporter of dissidents in NI yet his “victory” is welcomed in the U.K……. perverse in the extreme

    • Mike Durrans
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:52 pm | Permalink


    • Mactheknife
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

      +1 for you sir

      Biden is no friend of the UK and we will soon find that out.

      However, I fear he has much in common with our own PM who can hardly be classed at Conservative with his climate polices, banning petrol/diesel cars from 2030. Has Starmer secretly took over and I’ve not noticed ?

    • Peter
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:41 pm | Permalink


    • Bryan Harris
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:28 pm | Permalink


    • Mike Wilson
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

      Not as perverse as your comment. 125% voter turnout?????

      • Lynn
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

        Yes there were 125% voter turnout in some areas. That is acknowledged. It’s the States own figures. So now you know how the election was stolen by the international Socialists and why the electorate who voted against Biden are so upset.

        • Timaction
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

          All funded by the Chinese.

          • Jim Whitehead
            Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:38 am | Permalink

            Epoch Times . . . You might well be correct with that . . . .

        • Fred H
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

          rather like our students voting at Uni locations and at parents home.

    • jon livesey
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

      Sorry, but this is how the system works. A date is laid down, the new President is certified, and after that there *is* nothing to be “swept under the carpet”.

      Personally I prefer Trump to Biden, but that has nothing to do with how Presidents are elected. Trump had his chance to present evidence of an invalid election, and the Courts rejected his evidence as not reaching the required standard.

      This isn’t how democracy dies. It is actually how democracy lives, because now we can get on with life and we don’t have to worry about endless “challenges”.

      • Lynn
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:16 am | Permalink

        Th courts refused to hear the evidence, it was never ‘assessed’. That is why the USA is heading for civil war.
        In the U.K. as many have pointed out – not least the BDI in 1999 – the politicians v the electorate deprived us of an alternative to vote for. Whatever colour we voted we got the same anti-British politics. So there has been nothing to fight for here, just a matter of accepting defeat.
        Let’s see if that remains the case when people are hungry for the first time in living memory. Let’s see if a population aware that their money has been poured down the drain by the idiot swamp continue to ‘holiday’ at home with no schooling, work or responsibility – 66% now dependent on Government for sustenance – and rising.

        • bill brown
          Posted January 9, 2021 at 3:11 pm | Permalink


          66% now dependent on teh government, can you please substantiate your claim.?
          Or is it the usual fake news from you ?
          Sources please?

    • RichardM
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

      Lester Cynic Beedell the turnout was 66%. Lynn it has not been acknowledged in any areas. You need to seek help, you are completely deluded.

  5. Ian Wragg
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    A bit like the UK then, high tax, spend and waste of money.
    Carbon zero to impoverish the steeples. This all from a supposedly Tory government.
    Pull the other one.

  6. Lifelogic
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    Indeed a President Biden tax, borrow and piss down the drain presidency combined with expensive, intermittent energy, more redistribution and an even larger state sector will be a disaster for both the US and the UK. It always is.

    In the UK it seems we will get this anyway, from an (allegedly) Conservative government. This even combined with idiotic and counterproductive lockdowns and massive infringements to civil liberties – to inflict further damage to the economy for good measure. Labour and the fake Conservatives combining to vote this insanity through and with massive majoritIes. Was Starmer not a “human rights” lawyer at one point!

    • Lifelogic
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:32 am | Permalink

      524 to 16 in favour of destroying the economy and causing huge other net damage to health, suicides and many other areas. About as insane as Ed Milliband’s Climate Change Act – where only 5 voted against plus a few abstentions like JR.

      When something is insane you can be sure almost all MPs and Lords will vote for it.

      • Jim Whitehead
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:32 am | Permalink

        LL, amazing but true, tribal or herd immunity, and, as we’re seeing with journalists, very few dare to go beyond the ‘group thinking’.
        Do they feel ostracised and sneered at when at the bar?

    • NickC
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

      Lockdowns that don’t work. Intermittents that don’t work. Referendums that don’t work. PotUS elections that don’t work. People losing jobs and health due to lockdowns. Schools not working. Universities not working. Our National Covid Service not working. How long are people going to put up with this?

  7. Nig l
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Looks like his vanity has cost the Republicans these two elections therefore the opportunity to put a brake on Biden.

    His achievement in the Middle East should have given him a positive legacy but unfortunately looks like he will end up a pariah.

    However for all those shouting about democracy they need to look at the Media and liberal elites who with few exceptions conducted an unremittingly campaign against him even refusing to publish some information negative to Biden.

    In the longer term, as we see with Brexit and more recently Talk Radio, plus increasing censorship supported by the likes of the industry regulator, BBC, woke universities etc, that is a greater threat to our society.

  8. Tabulazero
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    You must feel mightily proud to have backed President Trump. What a colossal error in judgement from your part.

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

      There is never any error involved in backing a decent honest candidate — This Election was stolen by the deep state which is everywhere – The extent of which has now become pretty clear to all right thinking decent folk.

      • Jim Whitehead
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:24 am | Permalink

        Bryan Harris, +1

    • Edward2
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

      Back him….what quotes do you have to base that claim on?

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

      Errr, finding yourself backing the wrong horse in an election is not an error of judgement.

    • jon livesey
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

      Right. How dare JR be unable to read the minds of 200m US voters.

  9. jerry
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    “Expect plenty of drama from a 50/50 Senate.”

    Except it will not be a 50/50 Senate, VP Harris will have the casting vote, assuming a vote is tied. The reality of course is, many of the more moderate Republicans already support some or many of the policy approaches taken by President (elect) Biden, whilst others are open to persuasion. If you doubt my comment just look at how Biden, as VP, managed to work with Congress between 2009 & 2017, along with the firm friendships across the political divide he had with staunch Republicans.

    • NickC
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

      So what about “moderate” Democrats working with the Republicans? Or does “moderate” only go one way in your world?

      • hefner
        Posted January 12, 2021 at 10:26 am | Permalink

        That’s exactly the point: the 50/50 Senate might not bring that much drama because moderates on both sides might consider the arguments and might not vote as blocks (blockheads?) along party lines. Can’t you see such a thing happening?

      • jerry
        Posted January 12, 2021 at 10:56 am | Permalink

        @NickC; Indeed, and that is what has been happening over the last four years, only to find far to often their efforts being blocked by the Presidential veto – you first need a moderate President for their to be moderation within Congress….

  10. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    President Trump continues to haemorrhage credibility, his legacy is in tatters and now so is the Republican party which promises to inflict inflation and climate taxes on the world along with greater levels of unnecessary interventionism. The authoritarians continue their recovery.

    As for the scenes at the Capitol yesterday, they were the culmination of years of “not my President”, impeachment type activity and lauding mass protests by one side while condemning similar shows of displeasure by the other side.

    As ye sew so shall ye reap.

    • hat man
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

      ‘As ye sew so shall ye reap.’

      Exactly. It’s a stitch-up.

    • NickC
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

      Narrow Shoulders, The Democrats eulogising BLM and Antifa violence over the summer leaves them without a leg to stand on when the extremists come from the other end of the political spectrum.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        two wrongs old chap.

        We have standards.

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

          Although I would not be surprised if it turns out that the protest was infiltrated by lefties who started it all and then mob mentality took over.

          • Narrow Shoulders
            Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

            But even so President Trump’s speech in the morning was even more toe curling than usual. He certainly knows how to preach to the choir

  11. gyges
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    … and what about the prospect of civil war and the break up of the US?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

      Yes, a state cannot secede from the US by the simple sending of a letter, as can one of the European Union.

      • Andy
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        Legally speaking a State has no right to Secede, but as there has been scant regard showen for the Constitution in regard to Election Law, why should some States pay any regard to secession ? And what would Biden do if Texas decided to secede ? Declare War like the Northern States did last time ? That will play out well on the telly wont it.

        • Lynn
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:24 am | Permalink

          +1 remember that 83% of counties voted for Trump. (Yet Biden ‘obtained’ a higher vote than Obama who won almost double that number of counties) 😳 If they leave the Biden ‘rump’ on the east and west coasts, can it function? The breakaway states might decline to allow a flight path over their land.

          • hefner
            Posted January 12, 2021 at 10:36 am | Permalink

            Another ridiculous statement from Lynn: even if 83% of counties had voted for Trump (which did not happen), the important bit is not the number of counties but the population in those counties. For example there are 67 counties in PA, with around 5,000 people in Cameron county and 1.5m in Philadelphia county.
            Does anybody sensible consider these two counties as equivalent in an election?

      • jon livesey
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

        The Basques, for example?

        • hefner
          Posted January 12, 2021 at 10:53 am | Permalink

          What about the Basques? In France they are ‘a province’, in Spain within two ‘comunidades autonomas – autonomia erkidego) and since the 2010 ETA ceasefire appear to live in peace with their neighbours.

  12. MPC
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    Yes god help us now in terms of Net Zero as Johnson finds his eco zealot soulmate in Biden and is further emboldened to continue with the drive to ever more unreliable and higher cost energy.

  13. Roy Grainger
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    The press not calling this one a “largely peaceful protest” as they did for the BLM/ANTIFA riots. Odd that.

    • Mactheknife
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

      Ah Roy, you forget of course that BLM/ANTIFA are the ‘nice’ people.

    • Lynn
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

      Kathy Gyngell: Antifa bus load infiltrated the demonstration and brought their violence with them. BTW it’s OK for a policeman to gun down an unarmed white woman? No riots? Where are the lobbies in ten U.K. wringing their hands?

    • Andy
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

      That’s because they didn’t only burn the Capitol down.

  14. MickN
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Have you seen pictures from the breach of security on Capitol Hill?
    There is one protester wearing buffalo horns on his head and distinctive tattoos on his arms inside the building.
    There is a picture of the same man at an Antifa protest earlier in the year.
    You have to look hard to find it.
    You have to ask why on one of the most contentious occasions in recent times that people were allowed to gain access to one of the most secure buildings in the USA.

  15. Andy
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Trump incited a riot.

    We were able to watch it all on TV.

    4 people dead. The capital attacked.

    The appropriate punishment is the 25th amendment.

    Removal of the president by the Vice President and Cabinet.

    This process can then be strung out for 12 days when he can then be prosecuted by President Biden.

    It starts with a little white lie and this is how it ends.

    A lesson on both sides of the Atlantic.

    • Mike Durrans
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

      Yes , NEVER trust a far left politician

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

      Brexit was won not by one ballot but by four but you want to overturn them.

      There are no lessons to be learned this side of the Atlantic except by you, Andy.

      YOU are the mob.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

        Millions of decent, peaceful people want to undo the appalling damage of your brexit.

        In due course enough of us will do that lawfully, I think.

        That is nothing whatsoever akin to what happened in the US.

        • Andy
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

          Sorry, but you will have to wait 41 years. You denied the people a say for that long as you built the evil empire, so you can’t complain if the same time scale is applied.

          • Jim Whitehead
            Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:21 am | Permalink

            Andy, I’m confused.
            Is someone trying to give a
            ‘Andy’ a good name or a bad name ?
            Is there Andy 1 and Andy 2, or is there some character changing elixir, or just agent provocateur?

        • a-tracy
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

          Do you mean you remainers will now all start to behave like the Democrats did when Trump was elected lawfully, all of the nastiness, protests many of which were unlawful, burning cars, buildings, wounding people during lockdowns and with covid running rampant but we were told nothing to see here move along, all the intolerance (that you also demonstrate on a regular basis Martin). We’re right, everyone else’s wrong and we will one way or another overturn you.

        • jon livesey
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

          Self-dramatising and grandiose people always want to undo the results of democratic votes when it does not suit them, while loudly proclaiming their support for “democracy”, which they define as getting their own way.

          But they are not millions. I doubt if they are many hundreds of thousands.

          • Lynn
            Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:29 am | Permalink

            75 million Jon. And they know it’s a fraud else the Democrats would LOVE the opportunity to show what fools the Trump side is, in Court. But no Court will hear a case.

          • Richard Clark
            Posted January 9, 2021 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

            73m votes for Trump; 81m for Biden. 232 Electoral College votes for Trump; 306 for Biden.

            Uncomfortable reading, Lynn.

            Facts nevertheless. Accept it. Biden won. Trump is a LOSER.

          • Edward2
            Posted January 9, 2021 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

            I realise you like Biden.
            But for the courts of America to refuse a proper examination of the election and the remarkable result will not lead to an acceptance of the result by the 73 million who voted for Trump.

    • Edward2
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

      One person was shot
      Three suffered medical incidents.
      Too many paragraphs.
      Your post was essentially about one topic.
      So one paragraph would have been satisfactory.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

        Thanks, Bluebottle.

        • Edward2
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

          Very interesting and intelligent response Martin.

          • Fred H
            Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

            that must be a first.

    • jon livesey
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

      “A lesson on both sides of the Atlantic.”

      No, Andy, the lesson is actually UK to US, not both directions. Snowflakes don’t like to hear this, but elections and their aftermath are handled *much* better in the UK, at all levels.

      Shorter campaigns, quicker results, and loses who are will to accept the will of the voters. While people like you sneer, the US still has quite a lot to learn from the UK.

  16. Yossarion
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Not a fan of Trump but having just watched McGuire and Peirce on GMB TV they were berating Trumps for encouraging people to violance but the clip that was shown Trump said that People were going up the Hill for a peaceful protest.
    The press need to get their facts in tune with the evidence on offer.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

      Quite right. Trump did not ask for violent riots. Just a peaceful march but we won’t hear much of that from the MSM’S. No wonder there are problems with angry people. So much of the news, as here, is biased.

      • Cheshire Girl
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

        I agree.

        The Media have had it in for Trump ever since he was elected , and they lost no opportunity to badmouth him.

        He wasn’t one if those mealy mouthed ones, who would say anything to be popular. I don’t think he minded if some people didn’t like him.

        After he was elected, rightly or wrongly, he did some of the things he promised he would do. a nice change from some other Politicians I could mention.

    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

      It has to be understood that a “mainly peaceful” protest is one where buildings are torched, shops are looted, cars burned, as was seen in Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, and New York City, but that was all last year and by supporters of the Democrats. That makes it excusable, we must understand.

  17. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    What about our rapidly disappearing democracy in this country? I note that you took the option not to vote yesterday as the government destroys jobs, businesses, education and takes away our liberty and freedom.

    • jon livesey
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

      An elected MP choosing to abstain is “rapidly disappearing democracy”? A tiny bit of confusion there, I think.

      • Fred H
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

        The Party ruled by Whips is about as far as democracy goes. An MP voting on principles, and possibly reflecting the views of the constituency, is a quick way to be ostracised. INDEPENDENCE !!

  18. None of the Above
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Although I have a basic understanding of the Constitutional foundation of the US and the balance of State and federal governance, I am puzzled by the political process. Some of the reported behaviour in the USA would draw the attention of the Electoral commission if it happened here and a severe mauling from the MSM. Damage to political reputations would be huge and voters would show their displeasure.
    Is the USA showing the signs and symptoms of a failing state?

    • None of the Above
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:24 am | Permalink

      I’ve just finished reading the latest news bulletins and I am appalled.
      What on Earth has gone wrong in the USA?

      • Bryan Harris
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

        It is called the deep state – a corruption so wide and deep it has taken over ….and yes, it is over here as well

        • Andy
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

          Don’t we know it. Look how they sought to destroy Brexit and only let a poor fudge through when it was clear the people would not back down.

          In the USA they have spent 4 and a half years seeking to destroy Trump. That rag the Washington Post was calling for his impeachment less than 20 minutes after his inauguration. If I was Trump on 20th January I would leave on Airforce One and fly somewhere and apply for Political Asylum. They will never leave him alone, but will persecute him through bogus legal cases.

          • Bryan Harris
            Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:36 am | Permalink


          • Jim Whitehead
            Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:07 am | Permalink


    • jon livesey
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

      Any time you are confused by the US system, it’s worth reflecting that it is what the original States were *willing* to accept, to join the Union. The Electoral College is one example, and the responsibility of each State for appointing its own Electors is another.

      And what would we prefer the US to have? A country run by non-elected civil servants and technocrats sitting in Ottawa, perhaps?

  19. BW
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    US democracy or any democracy is suffering from if I don’t get my way let’s riot. People will not accept they lost. You only have to look at the Brexit and the SNP independence. They simply cannot accept the democratic vote that never went their way. It is a very troubling development. There used to be a time when those that lost got behind the country until the next election to try to change things.
    Dare I say that if a Trump had won the BLM and Antfa would still be rioting in the USA. It is terrible to see democracy heading in this direction. And I heard a commentator on CNN scream. “ Do we need to take up the North Korean offer to send observers to the next election”. Very troubling. We need to look at our own democracy as it is headed the same way.

    • Martyn G
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

      You are quite right and what worries me is that when America catches a cold, the rest of the world starts sneezing….

      • Fred H
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

        and when the Chinese get a temperature, a couple of million people outside of China die, and many millions are ill for weeks and may never be as well again.

        • rose
          Posted January 9, 2021 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

          We should all go back to voting on the day with pencil and paper – and now with ID. The votes must be counted by hand too. No fraudulent machines. Just armed forces abroad should have postal votes.

  20. Richard1
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    The US cabinet should use the 25th amendment to kick him out for the last two weeks. At least this will have stopped any possibility of Trump being the republican candidate in 2024. Let’s hope Biden isn’t as ineffectual as Obama was. Dangerous times for the West.

  21. BJC
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    “……..the media claim the US will likely opt for a high spend higher tax strategy allied to a major decarbonisation drive.”

    Another thing where the UK “leads the world”, despite only 2% of the electorate voting for the Green mandate. Will the electorate’s voice ever be heard over these fundamental life-changing policies, or will it always be a matter for the arrogant “we know best” political classes to decide on our behalf?

    Thank you for abstaining in yesterday’s vote, Sir John; too many questions remain unanswered over the consistently wrong interpretation of data and the conclusions reached. Is there a backup plan for when the vaccination programme fails, or will they adopt the same repetitive policy we have with lockdown in the vain hope a vaccine will somehow work……..when?

    Yesterday’s vote provided the evidence that we now have government run along the lines of the EU, where Parliament is only tolerated to present an impression of democracy, whilst nodding through the diktats of the executive. The reality is it’s Parliament that’s empowering the government to act at will, failing in its fundamental duty to hold the executive to account and failing to protect the freedoms of those they claim to represent. Parliament should hang their collective heads in shame.

  22. middle ground
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Higher spend higher tax strategy while covid infections and the Dow Jones hit an all time high. Interesting!

  23. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    We all know this is a reaction to the anti-democratic actions of the left.

    Here in the UK, we’ve had the anti-democratic May/Cameron Brexit debacle, BLM marches randomly knocking over statues, which amounts to the same as what’s happening in Washington. Neither side has respect for democracy, tradition or due process.

    • Dr. Sok
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

      At this point in time you and everyone else will have to bite your lip. Problems that are not dealt with fester. Maybe that’s the devious plan. Just sayin Joe😎

    • Teffer
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

      The only antidemocratic coup we have seen in this country was when the Conservatives prorogued our Parliament. Thankfully the Supreme Court stopped this illegal action

      • Edward2
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

        It was strange decision.
        Parliament had been prorogued several times before without court intervention.
        But not to worry, it only was a minor blip on the route to achieving what the people said in the referendum.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

        I think we can say that Cameron promising to honour a democratic vote the next day then running way was de facto anti-democratic. Likewise May – we are leaving the EU on x date – too many to mention – basically delaying a democratic result and obfuscating is anti-democratic.
        In the end, we’ve had a lucky escape from a Capitol Hill incident on the back of Frost/Johnson, or perhaps our system worked in turfing May out.

        • Simeon
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 7:34 am | Permalink

          How can Fraud Frost and Blowers claim any credit whatsoever for serving up BRINO? You do understand that the purpose of this botched job is to pave the way for a formal return to the EU’s bosom, right? By the time the Tories are finished, the notion of British independence will have been thoroughly discredited in the eyes of the average voter. The public will be demanding EU membership within a decade – assuming the EU still exists, which, to be fair, it may not.

          As for the absence of protests to this state of affairs, I would put that down to an even more craven MSM in this country than exists in the US, and the timidity of the average Brit when set against the average American.

      • Jim Whitehead
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:05 am | Permalink


  24. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    It’s not quite 50/50 as the casting vote gives Democrat control.

    • Fred H
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

      generally there is a casting vote… have you never noticed such a strange idea?

    • Lynn
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:36 am | Permalink

      Oh yes. The destruction of the USA is wholly owned by the Democrats.

  25. Roger W Carradice
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Sir John
    We have been told by the BBC that there was no evidence or proof of fraud. Indeed this was the position of most main stream media. However I have seen evidence of huge fraud in the swing states, enough for me to believe that Trump won the electoral college. This has, of course, come from internet sources and some from Fox News. It was sufficient for several states including Texas to ask for the Supreme Court to consider the matter. It seemed even if there was fraud they had no standing on the matter with the Court! Polls suggest that most Republicans and some Democrats believe the election was stolen. If I was an American I would consider that I lived in a banana republic as there is clearly no mechanism to investigate this evidence as most courts avoided the cases put to them on procedural grounds. Had the Democrats been satisfied this evidence was baseless surely they would have welcomed judicial review.

    • Shep
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

      Yep. Bananas is where they would like we to be. Luckily, for us, they have marked their cards yet again. Let time take it’s toll.

    • Andy
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

      You completely sum up the problem both in the US and here.

      A bunch of people believe conspiracy theories, unsourced nonsense from the internet and far right news channels.

      Trump lost.

      The vote was free. It was fair. Nobody cheated. It was not even close.

      And yet you choose to believe a bunch of complete and utter tosh because some bloke you never met said it on the internet.

      If it is on Breitbart it is fake. If it is on the BBC it is not. This should not be hard for even idiots to understand.

      • matthu
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

        4 states relied on unconstitutional measures to facilitate their voting irregularities including sending out millions of unrequested postal votes, relaxing the requirement for verifying signatures, relaxing the requirement surrounding collection and safeguarding the postal votes, relaxing the date by which votes needed to have been received etc. None of these changes was constitutional, and none is disputed.

        So no, not free and fair.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

        How sure you are andy.
        One side is wrong.
        One side is right.
        No room for consideration.
        The definition of a modern open liberal mind.

        • RichardM
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

          Edward2 dozens of judges have already considered. You still believe utter tosh.

          • Edward2
            Posted January 8, 2021 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

            No they haven’t.
            It has never reached an actual court case where two sides can present their case.
            Why do you not know this?

    • Peter
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

      ‘Had the Democrats been satisfied this evidence was baseless surely they would have welcomed judicial review’

      Correct. Though it might be more convenient to claim there was no fraud and get the media to sell that line.

      A bit like the Brexit Agreement – say the right things and wait until the last minute when people are distracted. Then claim it’s a triumph and supported by important people and move on swiftly before full examination of the events.

    • SM
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

      You haven’t seen any evidence unless you are employed by the relevant US courts – you blatantly admit your views come from internet sources and Fox News. Presumably you believe every US court is under the malign influence of the Democrats?

      In a BBC report today, a Trump supporter has alleged that the rioters were ‘dressed up to look like Trump supporters’, ie it was yet another fake/fraud on the part of the Democrats!!!

      • Jim Whitehead
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

        SM, Nobody had a knee on her neck, she was unarmed, she had done three tours of duty in uniform, and she was shot, shot dead. She was shot by someone in uniform who shot into a crowd, something “which an American couldn’t do, say, in Kandahar” , to quote Mark Steyn.

    • M Davis
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:59 pm | Permalink


    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:08 pm | Permalink


    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

      Well, whatever you might have seen was dismissed by US courts in sixty cases brought by Trump’s mob.

      I know who I believe.

      • Lynn
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

        No evidence was ever heard. That’s the problem. No redress for grievances. You are too shallow to understand the consequences. So are most MPs. I expected more of John Redwood.

        reply I did not comment on the case but reported the truth that he was unable to get a court case that took his view, or mobilise more than his own supporters with a belief that this was a corrupt election. He had to do one or the other to pursue this successfully.

        • Jim Whitehead
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

          Reply to reply

          Alan Dershowitz has made a strong case for investigation of the assertions of fraud and he is not a Trump groupie.
          A profoundly dismaying reply to Lynn I feel.

        • Simeon
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

          Reply to reply

          Sounds alot like fence-sitting. But then you abstained on the BRINO deal, and again on the Covid Act, so at least you are consistent. Nevertheless, sitting on the fence is itself a particular stance, and in matters that are actually black or white, if you’re not one, you are the other, whether you like it or not.

          Reply I voted against the previous lockdown and against Mays Withdrawal Bills

          • Simeon
            Posted January 8, 2021 at 7:26 am | Permalink

            Reply to reply

            Johnson’s deal is May’s in trousers.

            But more importantly, and interestingly, why is it that you didn’t vote against this lockdown? (Not that how you vote makes any material difference.) What has changed? There are plenty of bogus reasons you can cite, the biggest of which is that the NHS is overstretched (it always is this time of year, and this winter the biggest factor is the decimation of the workforce through enforced self-isolation.) But none of this alters the most basic point, that lockdowns are at best a sticking plaster, and a treatment that does far more harm than the virus itself. That alone would be enough, even if you haven’t yet accepted that the government is corrupt and this crisis is confected.

        • Richard Clark
          Posted January 9, 2021 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

          No evidence was heard, because none was presented. Simple as that.

          • Edward2
            Posted January 9, 2021 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

            None was allowed to be presented.
            Simple as that.

      • matthu
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

        The evidence was not considered.

      • Fred H
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

        What YOU believe is of no consequence. An example being how China has eradicated the Bat lady virus.

  26. P. Else
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    The entire US deep state, justice system and media have managed to steal the election in the most blatant fashion and politicians from other countries have completely failed to call it out. I suspect because they too are complicit in the removal of democracy from the people. It ssems that the May elections will be cancelled here and just in case the government is forced to ever run an election again we are already importing the vote counting machines that the Democrats used.
    At what point will the UK state stop pretending we have a democracy as they have in America?

  27. Bryan Harris
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    A very wrong assessment – that’s straight out of the left wing media.

    Trump was very right to fight for what he believed in, and I don’t think it is over yet.

    Why are we so poor at determining what is good in this world, what is totally crooked, and then being able to support the good guy? We have surely lost something in our ability to see right from wrong.

    It is not that Trump has failed to prove his case, it is because the deep state within America has refused to even have it considered. Real evidence has been blocked at every point. In fact Trump has a very good case, which all decent Americans agree with.

    Why are we so ready to concede the world’s future like this — Why aren’t we supporting the good guy? Cowardice?

    You can be sure of one thing – IF Biden does ever get into the Whitehouse, the world will go to hell…. and that is no exagerration.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

      Trump has NO case. It is very worrying that you think he has. Every legal challenge has been repudiated. EVERY single one.

      • Bryan Harris
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:39 am | Permalink

        By the deep state – he never got a proper hearing.

        It is more worrying how some people are so wiling to throw their support to a corrupt establishment, and ignore facts.

      • Stred
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 10:52 am | Permalink

        By swamp lawyers.

      • NickC
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

        Mike, None have been repudiated in the courts. Not a single one. The courts have simply refused to consider the claims. A public investigation must be held. Though given the Democrats hypocrisy over the BLM and Antifa multiple riots compared to the single pro-Trump riot, I won’t hold my breath.

  28. Nivek
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    The last time I recollect you writing in these pages about trouble in the USA (on June 3rd, last year), you quoted President Trump, in part, as follows (my emphases added):
    Here in the nation’s capital, the Lincoln Memorial and the World War Two Memorial have been vandalized. One of our most historic churches was set ablaze.”

    This context gave me particular concern that disputes raised by parties to the American election would be adjudicated on by the lawfully appointed triers of the facts. As I commented a few weeks ago, this means that, when the general public have heard specific averments of fact by purported witnesses, I would hope that the triers would do some trying.

    You write: “President Trump has failed to sustain a case” (emphasis added).

    Which court has actually tried the case and enumerated the assertions of fact that he “failed to sustain”?

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:27 pm | Permalink


    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

      Nivek, +1, and, like you, I feel dismay that Sir John has glided high over that point so briefly.

  29. formula57
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    We are reminded in President Trump’s behaviour of that of our own quislings and associated remoaners. These types need to recognize reality and have more respect for democracy and the people.

  30. Iain Moore
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    I am sorry there is evidence of electoral fraud and miscounting. What is shocking is that all the checks and balances in place for people to put their case in regards to irregularities have failed.

    Pennsylvania tore up their electoral and constitutional law with the introduction of mail-in votes , this was done illegally , worse it was done without any address or signature checks. They created two classes of vote, those who voted by mail without any checks, and those who voted in person who had to supply proof identity. Don’t you have any cause for concern about this?

    And there is an awful lot more.

    Above all there are some serious lessons for us to be taken from the US election . Mail in voting , or here postal voting, is wide open to fraud , we have known this for a long time yet you MPs have chosen to ignore these problems , the most serious of which is that it removes the secret ballot from people and leaves them vulnerable to coercion. Your mandate in Parliament resides on people accepting the vote and believing in the integrity of the electoral process , postal voting corruption chips away at your mandate, and god forbid if you lot ever allow electronic or voting machines,where votes disappear into algorithms and can never be proven if they were counted or flipped , then your mandate disappears completely , just like in the USA now. If voters in the USA had to turn up to vote , in person on the day and cast their paper ballot, where they could see it being counted, then what has taken place in this Presidential election would not have happened.

    Don’t under any circumstance ever allow our democracy to be destabilised by electronic voting, better still, strengthen it by severely restricting postal votes.

  31. Caterpillar
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    President Trump called for peaceful protest as a reminder to the politicians that they represent the people and the words in large type “We the people” at the top of the Constitution. About half of the USA have doubts about the election and it is, to use the phrase, ‘false news’ to believe that these have been satisfactorily investigated. Of course the majority of the evidence so far floated would be shown to be false, this is to be expected when people witness things in which they are inexperienced – it takes months/years and expertise to build cases. Of course there has been no impartial, investigative journalism to identify what actually needs to be answered. The Democrats and some Republicans have ignored ‘the people’ (some might say back to business as usual in the swamp); once President Elect Biden takes office nothing will be done, there will be no investigation.

    I will give two examples of how bad things are, both might sound trivial but I think are background as to why people are concerned, and their concerns won’t be considered:-

    At one of the ‘hearings’ an 80 year old lady simply gave the evidence that having printed her vote from the machine it showed all her down ballot selections but not who she selected for President. With her daughter’s aid she enquired about this before scanning her vote, she was told it was printed but was encoded on her ballot to protect privacy – I have no idea what is true or false about this, but even at this level one can understand why people are concerned if they do not feel they can check their own ballots, and know that incomplete ballots are adjudicated (not always observed).

    The second issue about confidence whether either the media or Democratic Govt would ever restore faith can be seen in the ‘fine people’ meme. President Trump recognised fine people on both sides at Charlottesville (a uniting the people statement) but absolutely condemned white supremacists and neo-Nazis. The USA media, and indeed media here, edited and presented this to make it appear that President Trump said white supremacists were fine people, which of course he did not. During the election campaign Biden, gave Trump’s statement of white supremacists as fine people as his reason for running; he went on to repeat this in an interview after the election was called for him – this really needs to be recognised; the President Elect, who wishes to bring USA together, directly lied and continued to do so about an MSM created misrepresentation of the President, on one of the most divisive issues in the USA*. This is not the only media created meme, the ‘drink bleach’ one is perhaps even more evil (Trump was discussing research on the use of UV). Why some American citizens may have concerns, and concerns whether they will be addressed is obvious.

    The call for the 25th Amendment and the arrest of President Trump will be seen by many in the USA as a means to prevent him declassifying/releasing further information – it will be seen as the swamp / deep state protecting itself.

    From a USA allies perspective, it is not the future entertainment of VP Elect Harris having the Senate deciding vote that is important – though it might be. However small the pssibility, it is not an unreasonable question to ask whether the USA has just lot a war (or at least a large battle), and if so who to (multi billionaires, CCP…)? I would like to know that the U.K. is checking this and that the Foreign Secretary is informed.

    In the meantime, I am grateful to President Trump for the Abraham Accords and Project Warp Speed, both of which give possibility not just to the USA but to the world.

    * I still.cannot beliece the MSM have not called the President Elect out on this. In Biden’s earlier years the media called him out for misrepresenting his university achievements, a somewhat lesser issue than perpetuating a lie about the President, but it is the latter that the media let ride. I think the USA news,.on both sides, might be even more broken/controlled than the U.K.

    • rose
      Posted January 9, 2021 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

      A very good message. I too have often thought of our Foreign Secretary during this nightmare and hoped to God he is properly informed on this, as our PM appears not to be. I do hope too that our MI6 people and ambassadors have not been compromised.

  32. Alan Jutson
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    lesson to be learn’t by all so called democracies, the voting system has be be fair and appear to be fair, the expansion of the postal voting system is leading to a total mistrust in the system, likewise the introduction of electronic voting.

    No substitute for individual personal voting on the day, at a proper polling station.

    In the UK we have been far too lax in granting people a postal vote on request, and then allowing that person a postal vote to continue for years.

  33. Everhopeful
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    What’s that then?

  34. Stred
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Trump failed because the courts refused to consider the evidence of sworn affidavits, video recordings, connection of computer counting machines, the banning of election observers, the examinations of the voting papers brought in late, the statistically impossible voting swings in key states and the effect of the censoring of the evidence on the Bidens computer and from previous employees. The swamp has wo and Johnson approves. We can now see that the UK is as corrupt as the USA.

    • Peter
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:51 pm | Permalink


    • Timaction
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

      Indeed. There is a documentary circulating with all the evidence. Trump was against all of the MSM and social media. Truth will out in due course and Trump exonerated. By then the Chinese will have won.

    • James Bertram
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

      The triumphant march of corrupt globalists stamping over Nation States forever; the death of democracy and freedom.
      (Note how the British Courts will not examine whether Johnson is acting ultra vires by using the 1984 Public Health Act to control the country – the UK a Deep State dictatorship.)

      • Lynn
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        Very important point. Well said.

    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

      Stred, +1

  35. JimS
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Has any court actually examined the claims or have they just been rejected by the very people that might have carried out fraud in the first place?

    Regardless of the rights and wrongs do you have no concerns that the majority of the media, including the BBC, were declaring that the claims were ‘baseless’ right from ‘day one’?

    If there is nothing to be found why are so many people determined that no-one can go looking?

    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

      The swamp has a fetid smell and it won’t go away.

  36. wab
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    You were one of his supporters, because he gave tax cuts to the rich, which is all that right wingers seem to care about. You own his actions.

    And keep up with the news. The Democrats have won both Georgia Senate races. Except maybe in the cloud cuckoo news world that you seem to inhabit.

    • Edward2
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

      The main beneficiaries of tax cuts were blue collar workers.

      • jon livesey
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

        No, my taxes came down by about three percent, and I am not “blue collar”.

        • Edward2
          Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

          A 3% reduction is good.
          The lower paid in America found many new jobs available and got tax reductions.

        • Lynn
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:50 am | Permalink

          Blue collar taxes dropped more. However, I’m assuming you live in the states, you can look forwards to a 40% increase in your tax bill. Biden’s proposals amount to at least a 96 TRILLION ‘spend’.

          • hefner
            Posted January 13, 2021 at 1:17 am | Permalink

            Utterly ridiculous comment Lynn:
            And the proof of the pudding is that you are not even able to read a table properly: there is indeed a 96 somewhere, but it is not 96 trillions, it is 96.2 %, the projected size of the debt held by the public relative to GDP at the end of 2028 (Congressional Budget Office).

            For the UK, a similar projection pre-Covid was around 85% for 2021.

            Having now followed your posts over the months, I would have an advice: do not quote numbers, most of the times they are wrong showing that you do not understand what you are talking about.

  37. Pominoz
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    “President Trump has failed to sustain a case of electoral fraud or miscounting”

    Or he has been prevented from doing so?

    I fear that, if this is the end for him – and I am not yet totally convinced – it is also the end of honest democratic government in the whole of the Western world – the UK included. The CCP will have achieved its goal without a shot being fired.

    Antifa interlopers, leading the violence at the Capitol, and never questioned by the MSM in their attempts to ridicule Trump, persuade me to believe that our lives will, henceforth, be surrendered to the global elite unless another Trump is found. The darkest hour comes just before dawn. Let us hope that, either in the US, or in the UK, another Thatcher or Trump will emerge. By god we need one!

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:36 pm | Permalink


    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:05 pm | Permalink


      He has been demonstrated conclusively to have lied to the public over 25,600 times.

      Just what level of derangement do you need to say such a thing?

      • steve
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:23 pm | Permalink


        What about ‘two illegal wars’ Blair ?

        • Ed M
          Posted January 9, 2021 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

          Although I’m a strong supporter of the British Armed Forces, I got called a ‘Socialist’ because I opposed Gulf War 2 because most Tories supported Blair’s war.

          Looking back on it, I was the True Conservative for challenging the war in Iraq (and it was a no-brainer, Hans Blix hadn’t confirmed there were WMD and the Iraq War was just a can of worms opening up Iran to dominate the region and many other problems – terrible as Saddam was, the Iraq War created more problems than it solved).

          • Ed M
            Posted January 9, 2021 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

            And I don’t blame the Armed Forces – but the politicians in particular Blair.

      • NickC
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

        Only “demonstrated” to biased people such as yourself, Martin. Trump is as fallible as any human being, but is a lot more honest than many Democrats – demonstrably. Remember the “Russiagate” hoax? He was certainly one of the better and wiser Presidents.

    • steve
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:24 pm | Permalink


    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

      +1 and heartfelt.

    • Fred H
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

      I think the UK was losing democracy with the activities of May, accelerated by Johnson. His party have given up trying to control what him and Carrie want.

  38. matthu
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Judges and politicians have turned a blind eye to the possibility of electoral irregularities on a massive scale affording no opportunity to test the evidence in court.

    Mainstream media and big tech have ignored or suppressed any evidence.

    Unrest yesterday is the natural result of four years of poisoned politics followed by media, politicians and police demonstrating that they were prepared to tolerate violent protest last year.

    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:33 pm | Permalink


    • NickC
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

      Matthu, Exactly so.

  39. Lifelogic
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    ANDREW MARR in the Spectator today:-

    “I can’t end without a BBC reflection. The numbers watching our shows are huge. But the hatred on social media is, sometimes, exhausting. What I think this apparent paradox means is that much of the country is both more focused on public affairs and far angrier than ever before. Some people, I’m afraid, have been driven almost literally mad by the events of the past couple of years, deranged by disappointment, unhinged by fear.”

    It is the BBC and yourself who are unhinged Marr there is no paradox. The BBC are for diversity over ability & talent, endless woke lunacy, absurd climate alarmism propaganda, massively anti-brexit & left wing, lock down enthusiasts and boring & tedious with it. But then Marr probably just cannot see this as he is all these things himself.

    A raving lefty Trinity Hall, English graduate – by his own description

    • Fred H
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

      The BBC is devoted to portrayal of the diverse small groups becoming (a false ) apparent majority.

    • formula57
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

      Surely the new BBC chairman Sharp will sort then out, no?

    • Andy
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

      Translation: the BBC are for evidence and facts and you are not.

      Not everybody on TV and radio has to look or sound like you.

      The BBC features plenty of idiot Brexiteers on its content to keep you unhappy.

      • steve
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        “the BBC are for evidence and facts”

        If that is what you believe, you need serious help.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 7:01 am | Permalink


      • Fred H
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

        I must have missed all that coverage these long biased years.

    • M Davis
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:07 pm | Permalink


    • jon livesey
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

      Marr does a good job on air, but when he “reflects” you have to take it with a grain of self-entitlement.

      Marr wants to be very aggressive when dealing with public people, but then be hailed as some sort of Solon.

      He should just accept that he is one of the many public performers who drive some vulnerable people to distraction, and that in a functioning democracy with free speech that is inevitable.

      To me, Marr is like a novelist. His output is interesting, but his personal opinions are not.

  40. agricola
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Donald Trump has apparently conceded. I do not think he should be forgiven for the way in which he has debased the presidential office and through his behaviour caused the deaths of so many of his misguided supporters. I am not optimistic about his successor, but he has the advantage of time to prove me wrong.

    • SM
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 5:13 am | Permalink

      Agricola – thank you for some sanity.

  41. Lynn
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    So if the fraudsters using their fraudulent machines (Biden’s words) use them a second time successfully that’s OK? Surrender democracy, it’s the gentlemanly thing to do. Oh, and you may as well lock down the 25% of people who generate the west’s wealth too – vote for that why not.

  42. Sea_Warrior
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Are there any politicians who believe in fiscal prudence left in the West? I fear not. America will now face four years of sad decline.

    • Dr. Sok
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

      You, keep on your virus_proof gloves. I am 98 years of this earth and look upon this fraud with a mixture of sadness and hope. Propaganda. Sweet retribution. Not for me, bitter harvest for the fools.

      • Fred H
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

        wishing something to be true is not the same as it being true.

  43. The other Christine
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    A sad day for the great country that is the USA. Election fraud is endemic in the States but at this election it was too blatant to be ignored. Those who pull the strings of power were never going to let President Trump win another election. They hadn’t anticipated the result of the last election and no way were they going to let that happen again.
    It is clear that Antifa were involved yesterday and will continue to stoke the fires of dissent to discredit Republicans. The masters of the universe are afraid of Americans who own 393 million guns, as well they should be, and will do anything and everything to disarm the populace.

    Here in the UK we must learn from this debacle and resist at all costs electronic voting and also revisit postal voting. We know postal voting has led to election fraud and we cannot countenance any further erosion of our democracy, what’s left of it. The Electoral Commission as it is presently run is not fit for purpose. Something must be done to remedy that and quickly.

    • James Bertram
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:54 pm | Permalink


  44. Ed M
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Let’s hope Tories properly distance themselves from President Trump so that he’s not back on the stage in ’24 – he’s toxic to the US overall but also to the reputation of Capitalism, Conservatism and Republicanism (and no, not saying he didn’t achieve good things – but overall, his legacy is toxic).

    If he hasn’t been leader, no doubt, another Republican leader would have won the elections. President Trump breeds Socialism.

  45. Ed M
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Well done Priti Patel for speaking out against President Trump.

  46. Norman
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    A sad day for America and for the free world: witness the reaction among the world’s rogues! Concerning electoral fraud, such is the level of media bias, censorship and corruption, will anyone believe it? Democracy as we have known it cannot survive under such conditions.
    At least some of those that stormed the White House are believed to be Antifa supporters.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

      It was the Capitol that was stormed.

      For pity’s sake.

      • Lynn
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

        Still Antifa stupid. That is the point!

      • a-tracy
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

        Was it ok when it was the democrat supporters storming Martin? There were plenty of people condemning the protesting and storming frequently happening in the past four years, I don’t recall you being one of them.

        Oct. 6, 2018, 5:41 PM BST / Updated Oct. 7, 2018, 1:22 AM BST
        By Kalhan Rosenblatt
        A throng of protesters pushed past a police line, storming up steps to pound on the doors of the U.S. Supreme Court on Saturday after the Senate confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh.

        “Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Kavanaugh has got to go,” the protesters chanted as they flooded the steps of the court, many with fists raised in the air, others with arms linked.

      • NickC
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

        Forgotten all the cities which were stormed by BLM and Antifa thugs over the summer, Martin?

  47. JoolsB
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    I would rather concentrate on democracy in this country or rather lack of it. I see Welsh & Irish MPs voted on this latest lockdown in England. At least the SNP for once had principles and didn’t vote although had every right to do had they wished.

    When John, are you who purports to speak for England and your fellow UK MPs with English seats going to do the right thing for the people of England and your constituents and insist they butt out of English only matters.

  48. glen cullen
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    US will likely opt for a high spend higher tax strategy allied to a major decarbonisation drive

    Your comment quoted above is a description of our current tory government

    • Simeon
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

      Sir John didn’t say it was a bad thing. The only sensible conclusion is that Sir John and his Tory friends are borrow/tax and spend statists. Though, to be fair, that was Trump’s approach as well…

    • Mark
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

      And here is an example of that:

      Last chance to comment on the proposed policy, which is to require landlords to spend up to £10,000 per property on bringing them up to a nominal EPC C standard before they may be let, on pain of an even bigger fine. The problems with this are:

      1) the real benefit in terms of lower bills is assessed at £7.3bn, while the total costs are assessed at £15.8bn: by including notional benefits from warmer homes (£2.2bn) and “carbon” they claim to secure a net benefit of £0.3bn – i.e. in the real world, it is a negative value proposal

      2) The assessment is based on “modelled” performance of energy saving investment. However, research tells us that the modelled performance correlates poorly with the actual performance – the Government needs to move away from reliance on models and require the use of actual performance data, beginning with actual energy consumption, and moving towards actual emissions analysis.

      This means that the benefits, both in terms of real bill savings, and in terms of notional savings on “carbon” etc. will fall well short.

      The reality is likely to be much more harsh: landlords will simply evict tenants or not replace tenants who leave, who will not be able to afford to buy the property they have been renting, and we will have a housing crisis.

      This is of course merely the thin end of the wedge on the proposals to insulate our housing stock, assessed as a £2 trillion item by Prof Mike Kelly, who has experience from his time at DCLG on the issues of real building performance falling a long way short of modelled assumptions, and also of the real costs of measures.

  49. John Downes
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    The case for large-scale electoral fraud by the Democrats is overwhelming, however none of the courts before which cases were brought were allowed to see the evidence. The judges (mostly political appointments) declined to see or hear the thousands of sworn affidavits. The courts were simply not prepared to interfere with the political process, whatever the prima facie strength of the evidence.

    In the absence of any legal redress, what are the President’s supporters supposed to do? Just sit there and see the election process traduced like that? Suck it up, as they say?

    The USA is a banana republic masquerading as a democracy. Or, as they used to say of the USSR, Upper Volta with rockets.

  50. Iago
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    We are witnessing the overthrow by fraudulent election of the most powerful and longest-lived democracy in the world and there are few, real democracies in the world.
    Your comment is utterly inadequate.

    • James Bertram
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

      And so is abstaining on the Lockdown vote yesterday.

    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

      +1 !!!

    • Lynn
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:01 am | Permalink


    • Original Chris
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:32 am | Permalink

      Not only inadequate but disingenuous, due (at best interpretation) to a complete ignorance of the political situation in the USA and due to relying on the MSM for the truth. You have plummeted in my estimation, Sir John. A disgraceful post by you, in my view.

  51. Chris S
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    While I have supported a lot of President Trump’s policies, particularly over NATO funding, his promotion of Middle East accommodations between Israel and Arab States, and his refusal to deploy US troops abroad, I have never been impressed with the man himself. I could never see myself inviting him to dinner !

    The scenes we saw yesterday were a disgrace and, as Pritti Patel said so unequivocally, they can be directly attributable to President Trump’s incendiary comments on Twitter.
    He really has lost the plot and it would be entirely reasonable for Mike Pence and other senior Republicans to remove him from office. Indeed, that would be the one way in which the Republican Party can demonstrate to the American People that they truly respect the rule of law.

    The problems over the US election were easily predictable as they have to a lesser extent, already happened here in the UK. They have been caused by the extensive use of postal votes which are uniquely open to fraudulent abuse.

    Before our next General Election, our Government needs to make drastic changes to the procedures and number of people able to apply for a postal ballot.

    I do not buy the argument that we need postal votes to encourage more people to vote.
    In my view, only those who are medically unable to get to a polling station should be allowed a postal vote. Everyone else should have to turn up at a polling station with ID.

    It is not too much to ask of a citizen to turn up once every five years to vote for a government of their choice. If they choose to abstain by not turning out to vote, that is an equally valid and legitimate choice.

  52. Billy Elliott
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Things like this happen only in Banana republics. Invoking 25th Amendement would be the only right thing to do.

    • NickC
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      Billy, They happened all over the summer, and they were endorsed by the left. Forgotten already?

      • hefner
        Posted January 10, 2021 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

        Funny, I do not remember the Capitol being overwhelmed by the BLM and/or antifa protesters. When did this happen?

  53. Christine
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    People should not be given cause to believe there is fraud in their electoral system.

    Here in the UK, we must ensure that our voting system is as free of fraud as is possible. Please bring in voter ID, reform the postal vote system and ensure none of these suspect counting machines are ever introduced.

    • Fred H
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

      ban postal voting. Personal secret ballot provided with a blank form, not already marked by someone else. Ban any attempt outside a polling station to enquire as to how someone voted.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:09 pm | Permalink


    • Peter
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:52 pm | Permalink


    • Robert Mcdonald
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

      Big thumbs up.

  54. Caterpillar
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    I would add that PM Johnson’s tweet

    “Disgraceful scenes in U.S. Congress. The United States stands for democracy around the world and it is now vital that there should be a peaceful and orderly transfer of power.”

    has enormously missed the point.

    Whether there has been fraud or not, the USA electoral system has been shown to be not transparent and when concerned voters have questioned the system there have been no forensic audits, no evidence tested in court and news suppression. If the Government (largely at State level but supported by Sens and Reps, and courts) cannot deliver a transparent election then those people (and it is not a few) that want transparency can only protest – there is no route left. When this has happened in other countries (not USA) then the U.K. has often stood by the side of those demanding transparent democracy.

    If the P.M. had tweeted this statement pre-covid I would have been shocked. I am not shocked now, but, at best, I am seriously disappointed. Why the U.K. P.M. does not appreciate that it is transparent democracy that people of the world need for trust. The lack of transparency in the USA has been hidden by a media fog. The media even suppressed the size of the protest in Washington, the size of the protest is key for the U.S.A. Govt(s) to be motivated to sort out electoral transparency.

    Also President Trump has said he would go on schedule all along, he has just been using the constitutional process and, trying to ensure the transparency (and security) of future elections. P.M. Johnson should not be so accepting of U.S.A. democracy.

  55. Andrew S
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    You’re developing a real pick and choose habit. How do you know there hasn’t been electoral fraud or miscounting? Nothing has been allowed to be tested legally despite a mountain of evidence. Why was Trump wrong to encourage public protests? On that basis Nigel Farage was wrong to encourage the march for Brexit and the 29 March London gathering in place of your ex party leader and cabinet pathetic failed EU exit on that date. You bailed out of supporting the lockdown bill the other night. If we let covid rip through the population, hundreds of thousands of elderly relatives, parents, grandparents, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters, partners could have died and would be gone forever. And for certain the conservatives would be swept from office as revenge at the next opportunity, inviting the socialists in to do what the vile pelosi democrats will now do to the USA.
    I say you’re the one who’s wrong here.

  56. Gareth Warren
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    The violence in DC was shameful, although also entirely predictable.

    The problem is not so much that no fraud has been proven, but no open investigation was made for fear of legitimising Trumps complaints.

    I watched one side put forth evidence such as more votes than voters in areas, when I looked at official data they also either had areas of the planet with extremely keen voters, or those 92-98% turnouts were indicative of fraud.

    I hope eventually we can see answers. I also hope we in the UK can learn from it, the lesson appears to be it can be made too easy to vote where the problem is fraud. Mail in ballots are the easiest to corrupt and we see problems with these in the UK, I would be happy if this form of voting was not anonymous.

    It also appears that fancy counting machines are actually worse than our system with scraps of paper and just a few more people involved. Asking people to trek to a local voting booth seems reasonable.

    The system always relies on trust and integrity, people should always be able to observe the counting. Simple rules that the UK does right, I hope you can help keep it this way.

  57. Roy Grainger
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Of more interest to us is Biden’s foreign policy, in particular what he will do about the EU’s recent investment agreement with China which runs contrary to both USA (and UK) policy on China. Otherwise I expect it will be the usual Democrat warmongering after Trump’s far less agressive term.

  58. Multi-ID
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    President Trump was wrong from the start not only the past few weeks- but we probably wouldn’t be saying that if he suceeded in getting ‘four more years’

    And now for a period of calm we hope- and looking forward to the return of old world values of respect and decency.

  59. Bill B.
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Let’s not judge too hastily. Wait till our May elections are decided by postal votes, or by votes counted by networked machines. And all the elections after it.

  60. Newmania
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    I think you have misjudged the tone of this Post- I think we need a bit more “Run for the hills ” – only a suggestion .

  61. Ed M
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Looking at Capitol Hill yesterday was another nail in the coffin for Western Civilisation with the USA as its most powerful nation.

    There is anarchy in all quarters now of the Western World – with those on the Left, Liberals, and those on the Right.

    Until we return to the best of our Greco-Roman and to our Judeo-Christian roots in general, then our Western World will just slip more and more into decline.

  62. Dennis
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    The invasion of the Capitol was in essence a call for regime change which has been roundly condemned by the US officials but they never mention of course the US pressure, sometimes with force or the threat of force, their regime change desires for Cuba, Venezuela, Iraq, Iran, Syria… Such hypocrites.

    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

      Dennis, not to mention the rioting and destructive violence in the past year in Portland, Minneapolis, Seattle, New York City, and spurred to such uncriticised mayhem by A. O. Cortez and Chris Cuomo in explicit incitement to break laws in order to break Donald Trump.

  63. Man of Kent
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Meanwhile our Government grows more Democrat every day.

    At least Trump went for lower taxes ,energy independence, scant attention to COVID and powering the stock market.
    The future for the USA and ourselves in following theinew set of Biden /Harris policies is distinctly gloomy particularly the net zero carbon and Paris policy .
    I dread the climate conference we are due to host later this year . Where will find all the money to give away?

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

      But you can bet Sturgeon will love being center stage.

      • steve
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:14 pm | Permalink


        She’s an irrelevance, a nobody.

  64. Mactheknife
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Trump was indeed wrong to encourage protesters, but what other option was there. The efforts to undermine his presidency began before he was even elected and have continued via media attacks, spurious political allegations, special investigations by CIA and FBI and even impeachment proceedings, which all came to nothing as nothing was there in the first place. Most of this was cooked up by opponents like Clinton.
    There was certainly a case for legal action in Pennsylvania and North Carolina where state officials unilaterally extended the dates for postal votes to be gathered and counted for several days beyond what was defined in the state legislature. Just imagine if we decided that the date for voting in the GE was a movable feast ? There would be uproar from all sides.
    The problem politico’s had was that he was elected on the basis of NOT being a politician, and they could never quite grasp that concept.
    I would recommend ‘Deep State Target’ by George Papadopoulos for those who want to know the truth about the Russian allegations against Trump. Its an eye opener for those who think we live in a free and fair ‘democracy.’

    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

      Also, Rush Limbaugh predicted the savage and unrelenting attack on Donald Trump on October 10th 2016, and he was most accurately explicit with his reasons and analysis.

  65. APL
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    JR: “He was wrong to encourage protests on the day”

    You are wrong. And because you have pursued the conciliatory stance typical of professional Tories and Tory grandees ( two steps back, half a hesitant step forward ), you have ended up fighting elections on the ground chosen by the BBC and all your other enemies.

    As an electoral force, you and the Tory party are useless. All you do is let your supporters down.

    Trump was a patriot and sought his legal and constitutional remedies. Just because the establishment denied him his just due, doesn’t mean he was wrong.

    I know in the new world order you nomenclatura don’t like representative democracy and seek to stamp it out where ever it manifests a cause you disagree with.

    Americans now have a PoTUS who is in the pay of China.

    I fear for the peace in Syria. When the inevitable attack by the US is launched on an established member of the United Nations, I pray to God, Biden doesn’t claim to be ‘bringing Democracy to the Syrian people’. We have had enough of those lies.

    • Iago
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

      Well said!

    • Simeon
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

      Peaceful protest is not only legitimate but to be encouraged – whether the protesters are right or wrong. The grievances of Trump supporters are entirely understandable. Trump encouraging them to protest is entirely reasonable. Standing up for what you believe in is entirely respectable – again, whether you are right or wrong. Perhaps Sir John’s disapproval of Trump’s encouragement is borne of a guilty conscience; Sir John may speak, but he doesn’t stand.

      • Jim Whitehead
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 7:57 am | Permalink


      • Ed M
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

        ‘Trump encouraging them to protest is entirely reasonable’

        – No it isn’t.

        Your vision of civilised Republicanism is shot to pieces if you think this.

        I’m a (strong) Republican but not of people who see themselves as demagogues (as one Republican senator described Trump) using the Republican movement for his own power.

        Trump needs to GROW UP when it comes to politics – and all those who support him.

        • Simeon
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

          I am more than happy to disagree with you.

          • Ed M
            Posted January 10, 2021 at 7:43 pm | Permalink


            ‘I am more than happy to disagree with you’


  66. Andy
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    I don’t agree with you that the President has ‘failed to sustain a case of election fraud or miscounting’. It is more accurate that no one will give the case a hearing. The Courts have not heard the cases, but have usually dismissed them with on the technical issue of ‘standing’. In Georgia, for example, there is clear film evidence of miscounting – poll workers pull boxes of ballots from under a skirted table after poll watchers are removed and proceed to ‘count’ the ballots over and over again. Evidence was given to a committee of the Georgia Senate of fraudulent ballots and counting irregularities which would have altered the outcome – all given on Oath.

    The Democrats, in their visceral hatred of President Trump, have been willing to burn the house down to get rid of him. They need to learn – like many in the UK re Brexit – that the end does not justify the means.

    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

      Andy, +1

    • mancunius
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

      Exactly, Andy. The illegal way that clear state laws of voter identification were breached, the obvious way urban Democrat Party activists dominated the electoral count administration, the computer behaviour that every impartial software expert views as highly probable manipulation, the hours of witness testimony that state laws regarding ballot tampering and voter identification were breached over and over again in one single direction, the overwhelmingly massive vote for a candidate who actually has very little popular support or even interest, the targeting of a small number of counties to produce maximum leverage for Biden, the fact that hundreds of thousands of ballots ignored all the elections except the presidential – together with the curious indifference of many Republicans about the electoral practices in their own state – the use of MSM and social media to influence in favour of the candidate the media bosses support – this is all so suspicious as to not merely contaminate but completely invalidate the alleged result.
      I doubt Sir John will be so relaxed when that little caper is tried out over here, as it soon will be, and his party disappears for ever, regardless of how large his majority.

      It’s all very well insisting that the accusations of fraud are ‘unfounded’ – that itself is an outrageously sweeping generalisation to anyone who can follow statistical and stochastic arguments, anyone familiar with alogrithms – for the allegations are actually very well founded indeed. It’s all very well claiming that Trump should not be President. The fact is that he very probably is. If I were a US citizen, I would never recognize Biden as President. In fact, judging by Biden’s recent reaction, it seems he doesn’t either! 🙂

    • APL
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

      Andy:”but have usually dismissed them with on the technical issue of ‘standing’.”

      Exactly, Trump had rather good grounds for a dispute to be heard.

      But the most egregious instance of the courts acting in a partial or political manner was when the Texas case was brought and the Supreme Court claimed Texas, one of the States the Supreme Court was set up to arbitrate disputes, was dismissed because of lack of Standing.

      So called ‘Standing’ is a legal doctrine used to discriminate against a plaintiff the court doesn’t want to hear.

      So much for Roberts claim that there are no politicized judges. That’s been demonstrated false, but if it were true, the Democrats wouldn’t be intending to ‘pack the supreme court’ with judges of their own political persuasion.

  67. Derek
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    I fear for our country and for the ordinary American. Now, it looks as though we are going to have to do without our ‘special relationship’, particularly within the Whitehouse, much as we did under “back of the queue”, Obama.
    In particular, I do hope we are not going to be forced to fight alongside the USA in another war just because the new President wants us there. Mr Trump rightly kept the USA out of the new war zones and saved American lives and $Billions in the process. Besides, we no longer have the funds to finance another war, whatever its size. It’s certainly time to focus on the old Commonwealth and trust they will accept our approaches.

    • Lynn
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      All the Commonwealth do is take our money and vote against us in the UN. Look at their record. Oh, and they give our Monarch nice things to do, trips to sunny climes and many state banquets.
      The Dominions are of course different, although in the Comminwealth.

  68. The Prangwizard
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Not much concern anywhere for the woman who was shot by the police. But she was white and a Trump supporter I presume, so not surprising.

    I saw one photo of about half a dozen armed men, in suits, pointing guns at people the other side of a door. That’s what the gangsters in government service think of the people – targets.

    • Fred H
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

      so armed defence against rioting hordes threatening violence is not permitted. Die quietly, eh?

      • anon
        Posted January 9, 2021 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

        Watch the video. I reckon charges will be brought.

  69. mancunius
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    The results in Georgia are the natural consequence of a party seeking absolute power by preaching a redistributionist cargo cult marxism to the credulous and resentful masses. All that ‘free stuff’ will prove unaffordable.
    This is where a nimble free-market economy unfettered by socialist ideology and built on guilt-free individual enterprise could do extremely well. Yet most parliamentarians and civil servants are resolved to prevent it from happening, as it would impede their attempts to return us to the bosom of Mutter Europa.

    • bill brown
      Posted January 9, 2021 at 2:55 pm | Permalink


      I could take your contribution seriouls , if you really udnrstood waht marxism is and means bout you do not , otherwise you would use othe terminologies

  70. matthu
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Ah! Boris Johnson has now proclaimed that the U.S. election was a free and fair election, so it must be so. At least we now know exactly what counts as a free and fair election in his eyes.

    • DOM
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

      Methinks he doth protest too much.

      If this half a person who currently infects the post of PM felt the US election was free and fair he would not have felt it necessary to say so.

      God, how we so desperately need a new Thatcher to purge the Marxist virus that’s infected both parties, our nation and the US

      • Jim Whitehead
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 7:55 am | Permalink


      • Lynn
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:13 am | Permalink

        +1 We need a Cromwell!

      • Ed M
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

        Mrs Thatcher was great at tackling the coalminers and trade unions and other forms of socialism. A hero.

        But the problem now is far bigger and insidious – stemming from a profound breakdown of traditional Greco-Roman / Judaeo-Christian values.

        Mrs Thatcher was a Christian woman (Methodist / Church of England) and as a Christian woman, and since she is dead, she would want me to speak for her from a traditional Christian perspective.

        Also, those in Heaven (please God for Mrs Thatcher) shout out: ‘don’t worship any person – Mrs Thatcher or otherwise – this is to break the first of the 10 Commandments – but to worship God alone.
        As a Christian woman, Mrs Thatcher would have completely agreed with this (at least, as she lay dying, on her death bed I believe).

        Only All-Powerful / All-loving God can ultimately solve the great problems we face. Just as it was God Who ultimately inspired / inspires the great things of this country: Parliament, The Judiciary, beautiful Universities and age-old Schools, Medieval Cathedrals and Churches, the Arts at their best, a sense of Patriotism and so on, Cheerfulness, Love of Family and so on.

        For God, Queen, Country and Family.

    • Iago
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

      Just watched him. He can lie just like that! and must hold the US electorate in complete contempt, which is unfortunate as it will be the same for us.

    • Stred
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 10:12 am | Permalink

      I heard the ex US ambassador Sir Christopher Meyer explaining that the reason why Trump had to be deposed was because he had acted against the international way of doing things and that if he got in again he would do even more damage. That’s the way that they think. The civil service is dedicated to following international agendas, including the disastrous zero carbon Reset so beloved by deluded tonks like Boris and Charles the Green. They couldn’t wait for Trump to be deprived of his votes. The previous British ambassador Darroch had already undermined the relationship with the president by calling him incompetent despite his successes with the economy, peace deals and keeping out of wars. The Johnsons have worked for the international brigade and the move to lead the UK through Brexit was a means to the end.

      • rose
        Posted January 13, 2021 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

        And yet Darroch, a guest in the Sky studio on the night, pronounced Trump to be the winner – before the adjustments took place. He must know at which stage to pronounce in an election count, even if he didn’t know very much about the Trump administration.

  71. Iain Gill
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    personally I am more worried about democracy in the UK, or rather lack of it

    • Fred H
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

      Democracy for some, highly organised twists and turns of procedure, earning a very good living at several levels for those in Establishment positions. Rather like justice, if you can afford it you might get it.

      • Iain gill
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 1:14 am | Permalink

        When elections are cancelled even the pretence of democracy is not there.

  72. anon
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    No confidence in the validity of that election, without a full investigation, hearings and audit of the issues raised, including vote verification.

    Surprised these issues have not been fully and openly investigated as a matter of public policy yet.

    • steve
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:10 pm | Permalink


      “Surprised these issues have not been fully and openly investigated as a matter of public policy yet.”

      Because the investigators themselves are either left wing or bought off by the left wing. The corruption is breathtaking.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

      The way that trials in enlightened, civilised countries work is like this.

      Someone has EVIDENCE of wrongdoing. They take that to court to try to prove their case.

      It does NOT work like this.

      Someone makes a groundless accusation with no evidence. They then demand that the accused prove conclusively their innocence, and if they cannot then they demand that the accused be found guilty.

      Do you understand why this is? Apparently not.

      You belong in the age of the Ducking Stool.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

        It is the right of everyone to take a case to court.
        To refuse to hear it at a higher level is poor.
        And it has helped create frustrations.
        Had the higher courts heard the evidence that would have been good.

      • Fred H
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

        You mean they allege they have evidence. The court may decide whatever they have isn’t.

      • matthu
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

        Are you suggesting that there was no material evidence?
        Are you also suggesting that there were no constitutional irregularities?

        Or are you suggesting that these have all been presented and weighed up in court before a judge?

        If so, you are mistaken.

      • jon livesey
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

        Wakey, wakey, Martin. Evidence *was* taken to Court, it *was* examined, and it *was* rejected. Since the Courts, all the way up to the SC, are the authority here, that’s it.

        Despite your extravagant language, that’s the way the system is supposed to work, and that is indeed the way the system did work, as it also did in 2000..

        All your wittering about “groundless” is for the birds. People always make groundless accusations. You do it here day after day. Groundless accusations by excited amateurs are totally irrelevant to the legal process.

        We don’t need your little tutorial on how Courts ought to work, because we have the living example in front of us of how they *did* work.

        And you are still completely incapapble of distinguishing between civil and criminal law.

        • Lynn
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

          You are totally wrong. You have obviously never been involved in the many pre-trial Hearings in the U.K., which constrain the evidence allowed to be brought without hearing the evidence! That is how a lot if injustices are perpetrated by ‘clever’ lawyers.
          Depriving a population of justice is a longterm suicidal strategy.

  73. steve
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Unless I missed it, I don’t recall Donald Trump actually telling anyone to invade the White House.

    The US elections should have been halted. The fact is the process was compromised i.e monitors prevented from overseeing the counts.

    Biden is bad news not just for the US but for the UK also.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:17 pm | Permalink


      • James Bertram
        Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:10 pm | Permalink


    • Jim Whitehead
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

      Steve, +1

    • Lifelogic
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

      Biden is certainly bad news.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 7, 2021 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

      Quite right Steve

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 1:36 am | Permalink

      Yet every legal challenge has. Even found to be without merit.

      • Stred
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

        Because they’re like our lawyers and biased leftys . Have you ever tried to get justice in courts. Its a pointless and expensive exercise.

        • Richard Clark
          Posted January 9, 2021 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

          Desperate stuff. Please try harder with something based on fact rather than suspicion.

    • Blazes
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      You probably think that Biden is first of all bad for the UK- you probably think bad for the UK because of Obama’s ‘back of the queue’ stuff- well you could be right- Personally I really don’t see Biden rushing over to UK for his first visit abroad- all of this talk about a special relationship is only a myth dreamed up by ourselves- like clutching at straws- and given the way our some of our Tory politicos have been cheering along the Trump camp in the last four years in expectation of a quick trade deal? probably his first visits abroad will be to Paris and Berlin- then am sure there will be other world business to attend to-

      • Multi-ID
        Posted January 9, 2021 at 4:27 am | Permalink

        To mancuncius? So yourself how d’ye think this will play out

    • hefner
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 11:15 am | Permalink

      No steve, JW, LL, FUS, Trump did not mention the White House.

      On 6 January, he told his followers to gather at the US Capitol and to try to convince Members of Congress to delay the constitutional process that would affirm Biden’s presidency, saying ‘you have to show strength’, asking people to ‘demand that Congress do the right thing’. He did not say anything about ‘storming’, ‘breaking into’ or ‘breaching’.

      Can’t you all check what was/is really happening before like baaing sheep go on this blog and adding your +1, quite right, and other marks of your silliness?

      • Ed M
        Posted January 9, 2021 at 1:35 am | Permalink

        I can understand some American Republicans still supporting Trump – but British Tories still supporting Trump is frankly worrying – and terrible for the Conservative Party to be associated with Trump.

        I now see everyone distancing themselves quickly from Trump including The Wall Street Journal asking for his resignation.

        (I am a Republican btw – but not at any cost – life is too short for Trump as President – the sooner, he’s out the better).

        • APL
          Posted January 9, 2021 at 10:23 am | Permalink

          Mr Ed ” For God, Queen, Country and Family.”

          Odd. A Republican who supports the Monarchy! Seems a little incongruous ?

          • Ed M
            Posted January 10, 2021 at 3:38 pm | Permalink


            Yes, I’m a strong Monarchist in the UK.

            A Monarchy isn’t a moral necessity (look at The Old Testament – God gave Israel King David but it was never ordained in the Old Testament that every nation has to have a monarchy – Jews, Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox all agree on this – there is nothing controversial here) but it can be a moral good especially when we’ve had one for nearly a 1,000 years.

            But I am mainly a Republican (in the USA) for political / social / economic reasons.

            God bless the USA (but the UK first)

          • APL
            Posted January 11, 2021 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

            Ed M: “Yes, I’m a strong Monarchist in the UK.”

            Ed M: “But I am mainly a Republican (in the USA) for political / social / economic reasons.”

            Not exactly a principled stance.

            I suppose should you travel to China, you’d have no problem adopting the Communist manifesto, either?

          • Ed M
            Posted January 11, 2021 at 8:24 pm | Permalink


            ‘I suppose should you travel to China, you’d have no problem adopting the Communist manifesto, either?’

            – No, not Communism although very drawn to Chinese Confucianism and Taoism …

  74. matthu
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Already there can be no free and fair election in the UK as long as we do not have a balanced media, government dissent is often censored and suppressed (think reaction to COVID) and people are prohibited from gathering and meeting.

    So we are most of the way there. One well-known journalist in UK said: if you ever wondered how states ever turn into police states, you are witnessing it happen. It is done with the people’s consent.

    • Ed M
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 1:54 am | Permalink

      Both the left-wing and right-wing media in this country sucks. The problem isn’t just Socialism and Liberalism but the Right as swell.

      Part of the demise of our great country and The Western World as we embrace vacuous, modern, secular extreme individualism – at odds with our Greco-Roman / Judaeo-Christian heritage.

      • Ed M
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 1:55 am | Permalink

        ‘but the Right as well’

        – And I say that as a Capitalist and Conservative but True Conservatism – that of Edmund Burke – is something from the ‘quaint’ past.

  75. DOM
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    And someone tell Johnson and the Socialist NHS to stick their clapping crap up their arse cos we ain’t being treated like Pavlov’s dog no longer

    We’ve had enough of your Marxist crap

    • Mark B
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 3:27 am | Permalink


      We have accept that we are the minority. And the Clap-a-thon has long since stopped. That does not mean what we have to say is less valid but we have to accept that we have a struggle on our hands.

    • a-tracy
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 8:54 am | Permalink

      I think he got the message Dom.

      Posted January 8, 2021 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

      Why dont we clap the pubs and seld employed all going bust to save the nhs?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

        Oh, another eighty thousand must die, so that this poster can go to the pub.

        Sounds about his level.

        • Lynn
          Posted January 8, 2021 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

          400,000 projected to die because the NHS denied them treatment. Clap for that Martin!

  76. rick hamilton
    Posted January 7, 2021 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    The idea that Biden will be the Leader of the Free World is laughable. After all the evidence of electoral fraud that has been gathered and totally ignored by the courts, the US can no longer claim to be the paragon of democracy or criticise other countries for corrupt practices.

    Since WW2 the UK has suffered three damaging bouts of Socialist government and thankfully the voters saved us from an even worse fourth one in 2019. Americans have never been subjected to this clapped-out ideology until now, but having supposedly voted for it they deserve everything that the ‘Democrats’ will throw at them. We can only hope it will teach them a lesson.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

      You need to differentiate between the facts and fiction.

      The “evidence” of electoral fraud by or for Democrats has been shown to be fictional.

      The factual evidence is that this is the safest, most secure election yet held in the US.

      You know, really, but you don’t care one bit do you?

      • Fred H
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

        what evidence can you produce, apart from you daydreaming this nonsense up, that this was the safest, most secure election held in the US.

        Who told you that? Bugs Bunny?

      • Edward2
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

        It hasn’t been shown to be fictional.
        No court has had a hearing where the evidence has been presented.

        • Richard Clark
          Posted January 9, 2021 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

          On every occasion, in all 62 court cases, no evidence has been produced. Simple as that. Many judges have made the point: no case to answer as no evidence produced. Many of the judges are Republican appointees of the Trump Administration. Trump’s own Attorney General has made clear there is no evidence of fraud.

          Why can’t you accept the truth?

          • hefner
            Posted January 13, 2021 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

            Or he might be … a little, just a little … slow on the uptake.

      • Stred
        Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

        Why do you live in Cardiff if you are English, unless you are disliked by the English and Welsh?

    • Multi-ID
      Posted January 9, 2021 at 4:24 am | Permalink

      rick hamilton., it’s about decency.. do we want a self serving at the head or do we want decency?

    • APL
      Posted January 9, 2021 at 10:32 am | Permalink

      rick hamilton: “The idea that Biden will be the Leader of the Free World is laughable.”

      I’ll tell you what else is laughable. Calling ourselves ‘The Free World’, as you type on your computer from the Government imposed lock down, permitted as you are, your two hours of outside exercise, and snitched on by your neighbors, encouraged as they are by the British Politburo .

      Truth is, there is no Free World, and John Redwood’s party was instrumental in bringing it to an end.

  77. Kenneth
    Posted January 8, 2021 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    I don’t know much about the U.S. – I don’t live there.

    I’m more concerned that I voted for the Conservatives and have ended up with socialists.

  78. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted January 8, 2021 at 2:15 am | Permalink

    In theory the Democrats control the Senate via Kamara Harris’s casting vote. In practice, there will be times when a conservative Democrat sides with the Republicans. As you say, should be fun.

    I wonder what Biden’s China policy will be.

  79. alastair harris
    Posted January 8, 2021 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Although it is understandable that Democrats continue to find people who don’t agree with their view distasteful (something that is hardly new) I find it worrying that elected representatives take issue with the idea of peaceful protest. There is no evidence to suggested Trump orchestrated the scenes widely reported in the media yesterday, in spite of the posturing of the mdeia.
    As far as anyone can tell Trump has raised legitimate qestions over the integrity of the US Presedential ballot, many of which remain unanswered. And the unfortunate fact is that the postal ballot system in this country is equally suspect and often accused of being widely abused.
    One of the key elements of a democratic system is surely that voters are able to place trust in the voting system?

  80. Kevin Caudwell
    Posted January 8, 2021 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    It is a shame Trump wasn’t allowed to present his case and evidence to any court – it was weasel for Judges to quote standing as grounds not to hear the evidence – it has made a mockery of the constitution and the American judicial system.

    I don’t agree that Trump was wrong to encourage protests.

    Any violence, whether by Antifa pretending to be Trump supporters or by Trump supporters was what was wrong.

    It would have been much better if the Vice President had told people what he was going to do in advance – obviously he was looking out more for himself than for the people who are scared about their future and angry at the voting irregularities and systemic bias against Trump.

  81. Ed M
    Posted January 8, 2021 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    (Mind you Tony Blair was able to get away with a lot worse than Trump – The Iraq War – I’m a strong supporter of the military but it has to be used properly – but if Trump got his way i.e. a second election, he would then get seriously dangerous – worse no doubt than Blair).

    ‘Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely’ – Sir John Dalberg-Acton

    • Stred
      Posted January 8, 2021 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

      Er.Trump stopped wars. Are you mad or badly informed?

      • hefner
        Posted January 13, 2021 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

        Er, So the situation is fine and dandy in Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, … People over there will be happy to learn the good news.

        The fact that DJT took away some of the US military from these places does not mean he has/had stopped the wars.
        But that might be a distinction too much …

  82. Ed M
    Posted January 8, 2021 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    Apologies, sir, for all my comments on President Trump.

  83. rose
    Posted January 9, 2021 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    It is a great mistake to link the rally to the assault on the Capitol. I watched that rally and I wouldn’t have described it as a protest. It was another of Trump’s peaceful happy family occasions, on a bigger scale than ever. There is never disorder of any kind at his rallies. The speech informed those there of what the situation was. No-one else was going to tell them.

    The debate in Congress was the first and last chance to hear some of the evidence. Each of the disputed states was going to be debated for two hours in front of the whole world. Now who do you think might have wanted to have that evidence heard, and who do you think would have stopped at nothing to prevent that?

    • hefner
      Posted January 11, 2021 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

      I guess you must not have participated in many rallyes and demonstrations. When a group of say some several tens of thousands of people get together, it is quite possible to have a large majority of them first listening respectfully to a speaker then walking peacefully … while a few hundreds at the front, or the back or on the side is creating mayhem.
      So having watched the rally on television (I guess) does not give you any insight on if, why, how, where or when potential bad events happened.
      So if there is a great mistake somewhere, I would think it is the first part of your irrelevant comment.

      Then of the seven disputed states only two were actually discussed (Arizona, Pennsylvania, the others retracted their claims). Even so both the HoR and Senate discussed the cases and overwhelmingly rejected the efforts of 12 Republican Senators (out of 100) and about 150 Republican Representatives (out of 435) to object to the acceptance of the Electoral College wins for Biden in AZ and PA.

      So are you a US ‘Remoaner’? With the majority of this vote (12 / 100; 150 / 435), of the Senate (50D/50R), HoR (222D / 211R), Great electors (306 Biden / 232 DJT), People (81,283k Biden / 74,222k DJT), do you not think it might be time for you to do something more useful than goiiiiiiing oooooonnnnnn with this set of elections?

      That also might apply to the some other commentators on this blog.

      • rose
        Posted January 14, 2021 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

        The most important point to take in about this rally is that the President was still speaking to it when the incursion at the Capitol began.

        • hefner
          Posted January 16, 2021 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

          So your conclusion is that he could not have said anything seditious before. How was I not able to see such an obvious thing before?
          Yes, you’re certainly right and I’m the Archbishop of Canterbury.

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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