Exercising Brexit freedoms?

Successive Prime Ministers have not used a lot of Brexit talent on the backbenches.

I raise this now because the current administration is becoming more Remain establishment with each reshuffle. The new Justice Secretary and new Deputy PM are both from the Remain stable. The Attorney General and the Chancellor of the Exchequer are also.

Today the test of Brexit resolve surrounds the EU Retained law Bill. The Prime Minister has always shown good support for this measure. It passed the Commons easily with a majority of 71. It is now stuck in the Lords where there are said to be many critics. If that is so they should be asked to complete their consideration and amendment of the Bill so the Commons can reaffirm its support and get it through, with or without use of the Parliament Act.

The Bill proposes keeping all those EU laws which are valued, where Ministers should bring forward confirmatory Parliamentary action to cement their passage into direct UK law. ItĀ  allows the EU laws to cease to have effect where they are not wanted. Some say this is too big a job for the civil service. I say they know these laws as they were usually very keen to get them adopted,. Department by Department they can help Ministers winnow out those laws thatĀ  UK Ministers opposed at the timeĀ  of their introduction or thought were unhelpful, and those laws which have been found to be unhelpful since.

123 Comments

  1. Mark B
    April 28, 2023

    Good morning.

    We have to remember that the majority of the HoC and HoL is very much pro-Remain. They dragged their heels and did all they could to thwart BREXIT, such as the Benn Act.

    We are coming ever close to celebrating the 10th anniversary of the ‘Glorious Referendum of 2016’ and, it feels to me, that we have hardly moved and inch. Or should that be 25.4mm ? /sarc

    1. Lifelogic
      April 28, 2023

      They Tories (and Labour etc.) have totally totally betrayed the peopleā€™s Brexit vote and the Boris Majority they were given. Starting with Cameron and the Civil servants appalling, surely criminal & abject failure to even prepare for a pro-Brexit referendum outcome in advance. Then Cameronā€™s pathetic abandoning ship, the dreadful dishonest May (also with her dire net zero and modern slavery time bombs). The Benn and speakerā€™s acts of total treachery. Boris too (who was admitedly left a difficult hand). Now Sunak has clearly become another Brexit traitor May style (with his sick joke of the appalling Windsor framework. Sunak who also caused all the inflation/currency devaluation and wasted billions through Covid with moronic tax borrow and piss down the drain policies.

      They got almost every single thing about Covid and the economy wrong. The lockdown, the net harm vaccinations, furlough, covid loans, test and trace, the dumping of the infected into care homes, the failure to push other often very cheap treatments that worked (like vitamin D etc. preferring expensive insufficiently tested vaccines that did net harm), net zero, tax rates, regulation, wars on landlords, motorists, small businessā€¦

      1. Peter Wood
        April 28, 2023

        Excellent summary LL. The only modification I’d make is that Bunter, who, more than anyone shouted for and benefited from the desire for Brexit, is the biggest scoundrel in this mess. He had the country behind him, the votes in the House and did, with all that….well, what?

        1. Ian B
          April 28, 2023

          @Peter Wood – yup all bluster and self gratification. There was never to be Brexit that was a lie

      2. Sir Joe Soap
        April 28, 2023

        Yes the whole point was to become super-competitive. May didn’t even understand or mention this. To reduce taxes to levels where establishing business here was more attractive than in the EU, where working rather than sitting on benefits paid dividends, where silly pettyfogging rules about maximum working hours, minimum VAT levels on energy etc. were abandoned across the country. The whole point was to get indigenous people back into work in place of cheaper alternatives by removing the incentive to not work. We’d all be richer on that basis.
        We’re being transported instead under the Conservatives to a situation where taxes are so high, rules so overbearing and the country so open to abuse by incomers that we’ll be begging to go back to the EU. Labour will of course finish the job, bt Conservatives will never be forgiven for handing us to them on a plate.

      3. Peter
        April 28, 2023

        The Times reported yesterday that only twenty per cent of EU laws will be removed by the end of the year. That is with Brexiteer Badenoch in charge.

        So, between this and the Windsor Knot, we are still firmly attached to the EU.

        This is not what people voted for. Brexit has still never been implemented after all these years.

      4. Cuibono
        April 28, 2023

        Agree 100%.
        What a gut-wrenchingly despicable show it has all been.
        And just because those who benefit from the EU trough ( suck on the EU teat) canā€™t bear to lose out.
        They have no respect, nor ever did have for so-called democracy.
        Because democracy was always just a sop with which to control us.
        They never believed in it nor intended to abide by it if it did not suit.
        Anyway I hope they really enjoy the dystopian, unruly, loathsome pit they have turned this country into.
        My mother used to say something about greedy people which I had better not repeat on hereā€¦..

      5. Bloke
        April 28, 2023

        Those in the Remain stable gamble on flogging a dead horse as if Shergar reincarnated. Maybe some in France would swallow that, but UK voters wonā€™t buy it. The rotting carcass of Remains and its putrid stench shall be disposed of in the United Kingdom Election process.

      6. Mark B
        April 28, 2023

        But will you still vote for them ?

      7. Lynn Atkinson
        April 28, 2023

        LL what was the thing they got right re the economy and lockdown?

      8. British Patriot
        April 28, 2023

        Brexit? What Brexit? I voted for Brexit so that the government would be free to adopt a nationalist economic policy designed to boost British industry. Low taxes, domestic-only public procurement and large-scale financial support and incentives to encourage investment. Exactly the policies that the US has now adopted very successfully. But the filthy Tory traitors, both Boris and Sunak, have done NONE of this, and we are going BACKWARDS relative to the US and the EU. We have been completely BETRAYED.

        It is NOT Brexit that has failed, but the Tory version of it. The Tories are Traitors and every day the news gives me more reasons to despise them. We now have a high-tax government sticking with EU rules, driving investment abroad, buying from foreign companies, pushing up inflation, pursing a lunatic net-zero policy that will impoverish us even more and allowing hundreds of thousands to be added each year to our already GROSSLY overcrowded island. I can’t wait for the Tory annihilation that is coming at the next election!

    2. Ian+wragg
      April 28, 2023

      I’m not convinced that Fishy is pro Brexit
      I think he is pro Fishy
      He will surround himself with whoever helps him keep his job, after all he’s the WEF placeman and they are all for the EU.
      Getting rid of EU law will again expose the lie of the Windsor Agreement because they in Northern Ireland will continue to follow EU law.
      Until the tory stables have been completely cleansed, we won’t get any result.

    3. Ian B
      April 28, 2023

      @Mark B – and they are still dragging their heals. It is their wilful denial that is holding the UK and Democracy back

    4. LenLungo
      April 28, 2023

      So Brexit is going really badly but – of course – it is never the Brexitersā€™ fault

      1. Mark B
        April 29, 2023

        You will note that, the issues we have are with the EU, not the rest of the world. Funny that – NOT !!!

  2. turboterrier
    April 28, 2023

    The PM in his selections does not instill confidence in his ability to drive Brexit forward. It is obvious to many when you see the experience and abilities of so many banished to the back benches.
    It shows despite all the words there are a majority of members who are still closet remainers playing the oďds to see which way the dice fall for the betterment of themselves.
    Once again the candidate selection process is found to be not fit for purpose and incapable of exceeding the expectations of the electorate.

    1. Lemming
      April 28, 2023

      Do tell us how you want “to drive Brexit forward”. What is your plan? Truth is, you haven’t got one. Not in 2016 when you had your referendum, not in 2019 when you voted for Boris to get Brexit done, and not now, you don’t have a plan. Stop blaming other people. Brexit is on you

      1. Lifelogic
        April 28, 2023

        Well we have not had a real Brexit delivered as yet, thanks to the treachery of Cameron and dire remoaners Bercow, Benn, May, Sunakā€¦

        What little we have had has worked well as Allister Heath points out.

      2. Dave Andrews
        April 28, 2023

        All this fuss over the minor financial detail of whether the UK is in or out of the EU. Why do the civil service and remainer MPs cling to it with so much cherish? The real financial ruin is being wrought by the government with excessive borrowing, excessive money-printing, excessive government spending and excessive taxation.

        1. Timaction
          April 28, 2023

          Totally right. They refuse to reduce public spending and all forms of welfare or reform it to get the feckless off their asses.

      3. Sir Joe Soap
        April 28, 2023

        You’re joking?
        Can I give you a list as to how this should have played out?
        1. 24 June 2016 – 8am Cameron decrees that the UK has made a democratic decision to take back control. He issues A50 to leave the EU at midnight, and any arrivals in UK after midnight no longer have the automatic right to settle here. Cameron decrees the UK will henceforth secure its borders and already has a list of tax measures to be taken by the Chancellor the following Tuesday.
        2. 24 June 2016 Noon. Cameron reasserts that the UK will take back control of its money, laws and borders, but is happy to review any proposals which the EU
        3. 29 June 2016 Chancellor stands up and declares Corporation tax reduction to 10%, employment rules and taxes dramatically reduced according to the pre-arranged plan. He declares “We want the world to set up here. We’re pro-immigration, but we’re even more pro-business, so we only want those who will contribute or genuine refugees. All others will be turned away”
        4. 30 June 2016.The EU starts to smear the UK government and asks “what happens at the Irish border?” Cameron stands up and says “It’s up to you. We’re leaving the Irish border open to goods and people from the British Isles. Come to us with your proposals”.
        And so on.
        We’d be in a completely different place.

      4. Bloke
        April 28, 2023

        Our King is sovereign. The UK population defended our way of life with faith in Brexit. Other faiths are available. Remain is an out-dated cult.

      5. Ian B
        April 28, 2023

        @Lemming – If Brexit was done, the UK Parliament would be the sole legislator of UK internal Laws, Rules and Regulations. It would be our own democratic representatives that created, amended or appealed those elements that affected our wealth creation, our daily life and so on. So far this Conservative Government hasnā€™t even got past go on leaving the control of the unelected, undemocratic, unaccountable EU Commission. It just point blank refuses the basics of democracy. It would appear that with their ā€˜Blobā€™ they will fight tooth and nail to be the ones that have to take responsibility for the UK ā€“ they need to take orders from what in their dreams is a higher power.

        So without the basics, there is no ā€˜Brexitā€™, there is nothing permitted that will free the UK to be driven forward, just a EU Commission run Colony.

        1. Timaction
          April 28, 2023

          That’s why the Tory’s are toast.

      6. formula57
        April 28, 2023

        @ Lemming – there may be those, perhaps old-fashioned, who would even see no plan as preferable to one that asks “how high” when the Eurocrats of the Evil Empire say “jump”.

      7. Lynn Atkinson
        April 28, 2023

        Repeal all alien laws that as a slave-state we were compelled to enforce. Withdraw from the international Courts and institutions which do our country damage.
        Assert that thing no Remainer comprehends, SOVEREIGNTY. It means that you defer to nobody on earth.

        1. Ian B
          April 28, 2023

          @Lynn Atkinson – you seem to be suggesting Democracy, something this Conservative Government opposess

        2. Timaction
          April 28, 2023

          Exactly. No need for ECHR. Just like all other Countries on the planet. These fools are deliberately defying us.

      8. acorn
        April 28, 2023

        The Retained EU Law Bill implies a UK divergence from EU law, at the end of 2023. The Northern Ireland Protocol Windsor Framework modification, throws a large spanner into that Bill. Which, may well end up frozen in time, in the HoL.

        The number of EU rules scheduled to expire under that Bill, is shrinking by the day. Regulatory divergence between NI / GB and the EU, is still subject to the rules of the Trade and Cooperation Agreement; which is heavily biased in favour of the EU. The latter having been produced by probably the most competent bunch of trade negotiators on the planet.

        Northern Irish goods will still retain unfettered access to the GB market; the EU doesn’t give a toss about that. The UK has committed to respect its obligations under international law, specifically under the EU-UK Withdrawal Agreement. Fortunately, the UK government, has not committed to give Northern Ireland Irish MPs or MLAs (mostly “Young Earth Creationists”), any distinctive role in relation to changes the UK introduces under the Retained EU Law Bill.

    2. Peter Parsons
      April 28, 2023

      The most recent thing I’ve seen reported is interest in doing a deal to allow UK travellers to use e-Gates when travelling rather than the current situation which has turned travelling to the Schengen area into an experience not much better than a typical experience at US immigration (i.e. long queues and the third degree when you finally manage to get in front of an immigration officer).

      As I’ve seen it quoted, this Conservative government chose to have UK nationals treated in the same manner as nationals of Venezuela and Tonga when travelling within Europe rather than something more sensible and practical. Any rolling back of the damage that this Conservative government’s choices have inflicted on the rest of us is welcome.

  3. Peter Gardner
    April 28, 2023

    As every country that has become independent has found, such freedom has to be fought for, sometimes for a long period and at great cost. The political establishment has always been opposed to the UK becoming an independent sovereign nation state. The Remain inclined see no value in any of this. Only a handful of politicians – that includes yourself – see any value in independence, sovereignty, the nation state. They see value in the state but not the nation state, which is anathema to most of them since it the greatest obstacle to ever closer union in the EU and the EU’s progress to becoming itself an all powerful state and a model of one world government.
    The Conservative Party, as Nigel Farage has pointed out, has never believed in Brexit, other than as a vehicle to win power. Its recent ‘away day’ with Rishi Sunak did not address what the UK needs in pursuit of its interests as a sovereign nation state, but only what little bits of voter appeal could be identified and cobbled together to win the next general election. The Party is now devoid of a philosophy of governance, devoid of any sense of national purpose or of how to achieve it.
    The polls show that voters think Brexit was a mistake – see Matt Goodwin’s excellent substack posts. But they don’t tell us the reasons why voters blame Brexit rather than other factors for UK’s ills. Instead of showing some leadership, the Government – and most of the Party – simply follows the anti-Brexit trope of the polls in the hope of winning some votes. The wrong sort of populism!
    The REUL Bill will be rejected or fatally amended in the Lords and the Government will cave in. Removing anything more significant than EU regulations on the colour of tiddly-winks will enrage the EU as a transgression of the requirement in the Sunak Framework to keep all of UK aligned to EU regulation. The Sunak Framework cemented EU law in Northern Ireland permanently and has effectively killed off any hope of UK’s independent sovereignty. Only this week a minister announced he will not act now but wait to see what the EU does first.

    1. Wanderer
      April 28, 2023

      PG. We’ll said. Instead of being stuck in the EU, we are stuck to it. All because of the refusal of politicians to do what they were directed to do in 2016 and their continuous, increasingly successful, attempts to reverse gear.

      I think every time a population has voted directly against a critical EU centralising measure, the referendum has been overturned by that nation’s own politicians refusing to act, then changing public opinion. Ireland, France, Denmark wasn’t it? At least we’ve held out for 7 years, which is more than those did.

      1. Lifelogic
        April 28, 2023

        +1 it surely is pure treachery by most MPs and Lords against the clear wishes and votes of the people.

        1. Mickey Taking
          April 28, 2023

          and Ministers, Civil Servants and others like Judiciary appointments should be weeded out and removed from office should they not carry out the wishes of the Electorate – the people who pay them and their generous pensions.

        2. Mick
          April 28, 2023

          Exactly L
          The people will have the final say next year in the General Election, your government and the ā€œlordsā€ as taken the public for chumps along with the snowflakes in the civil service, youā€™ve had plenty of time to make GB great again but blown it big time, I think a lot of your colleagues on both benches will be picking up there P45ā€™s next year and too right to,

        3. Ian B
          April 28, 2023

          @Peter Gardner + @Wanderer + @Lifelogic – a big plus 1

        4. Bloke
          April 28, 2023

          History will reveal nodes of treason in sharp contrast, but it is now with time to act to blot out red stains blobbing the UKā€™s record of goodness.

      2. IanT
        April 28, 2023

        “Instead of being stuck in the EU, we are stuck to it.”

        Quote of the Day! šŸ™‚

    2. BOF
      April 28, 2023

      P G
      Very good comment. Added to that the cs plays its part by steadily whittling down Brexit supporters in government. The peoples majority, is being destroyed by anti democratic MP’s, Lords and the militant cs.

    3. SM
      April 28, 2023

      +100

    4. Bill Brown
      April 28, 2023

      Peter Gardner

      UK independent sovereignty, it all sounds good but with the amount of international treaties we have signed it is actually a load of non existing nonsense

      1. EU fan
        April 28, 2023

        Mutually agreed trade treaties between two or more nations is plainly different to the law making (soon to be superstate) EU.
        Seems obvious to me Bill Brown.

  4. Fedupsouthener
    April 28, 2023

    Quite simply Brexit was never going to be fully implemented and has less chance now than ever. What we have now is a token gesture just to appease voters but it’s obvious we are still paying the EU and are still holding their hand for fear of standing alone. There will be nobody with integrity left in the cabinet soon and the back benches will never stand up and call it out. If people want Brexit their only hope is Reform.

    1. BOF
      April 28, 2023

      I think that point has already been reached in the cabinet. Even a back bencher is booted out for telling the truth and supporting injured and dead constituents and citizens.

    2. GaryC
      April 28, 2023

      Agreed.

    3. Sir Joe Soap
      April 28, 2023

      I believe you’re correct but sadly folk like our host cling to nurse for fear of something worse.

    4. Bloke
      April 28, 2023

      Many voters assume a small party is unable to win, so they vote for some other.
      It is THEY who prevent their own preferred party from winning.

      Message to those who want reform: Vote Reform.
      Otherwise assume Remaining, against anything better.

    5. British Patriot
      April 28, 2023

      Yes, it’s time people understood two things: (i) Brexit hasn’t failed because it’s never been implemented! We are not doing anything dramatically different to what we would be doing if we were still in the EU. (ii) The only solution to our problems is to finally implement some decisive pro-British policies that bring us success, and the only way of doing that is to elect a completely different set of politicians.

      The Tories will NEVER implement Brexit properly, or adopt pro-Britain policies. They are NOT nationalist patriots, they are internationalist TRAITORS. So stop voting Conservative or things will NEVER improve.

  5. Donna
    April 28, 2023

    The Not-a-Conservative-Party (NaCP) was always majority Remainer. The Party Grandees tolerated a minority of people who claimed to be Euro-sceptic so they could claim that the party was less rabidly pro-EU than Labour, when (as usual) there was very little difference between them.

    Having lost the Referendum, they only delivered a very weak version of Brexit because Nigel demonstrated that the NaCP would be annihilated if they didn’t and the Establishment’s grip on power would have been shattered.

    All that is happening now is that the Party Grandees are asserting the status quo ante. The Party is returning to pro-EU and Brexiteers have either been sidelined and/or disposed of.

    I can’t think of any reason why I’d vote for this treacherous party.

    1. Lifelogic
      April 28, 2023

      Indeed the only reason is that the only realistic alternative Labour/SNP/LibDim or these as a coalition is even worse. This given the voting system that pertains. Albeit not much worse that these Consocialist, nets zero anti-brexit, tax to death, open door to illegal immigration gross incompetents.

    2. British Patriot
      April 28, 2023

      I have no sympathy for Conservative Party members – they only have themselves to blame. They are the ones who approve the candidates. if they wanted they could have a purge of all the treacherous Remainers. But they don’t. Because they don’t want to be seen to ‘rock the boat’ and because their primary purpose in belonging to the party is not political but social, and they don’t want to become unpopular by being seen as a troublemaker. The Conservative Party is not fit for purpose. It needs to die.

    3. Timaction
      April 28, 2023

      Neither can millions of other former Tory voters. A small rump doesn’t make a Party Sir John. You are now a very small minority. Nothing is turning up, it’s either put up or ship out!

  6. Bill brown
    April 28, 2023

    Sir JR

    There are so many laws involved, just saying which ones are useful and deleting the rest is not something done overnight.
    If, the new ministers are qualified, who cares whether they are remain or not except you. Sir JR move on.

    1. Mickey Taking
      April 28, 2023

      not done overnight? Which ones of the thousands have been removed since 2016?

    2. R.Grange
      April 28, 2023

      Overnight, Bill? They’ve had seven years to sort out what should be kept and what should be junked. No excuses.

    3. turboterrier
      April 28, 2023

      F U S
      What the remainers want will be the catalysts to play straight into the hands of the globalists. Maybe that is their cunning plan. For the vast majority, own nothing but happy, living on the crumbs from their table.
      This country as is has not got a clue on how to govern itself, once it was in our DNA but now no longer.

    4. turboterrier
      April 28, 2023

      Bill brown
      My experience during life is that:
      Qualifications are not proof of common sense, experience, beliefs, ability and motivation.

    5. a-tracy
      April 28, 2023

      Overnight?

      This has been happening since 2016, planning, preparation, and broken promises. We couldn’t do anything until Jan 2020, but why has nothing been done three years later?

      Who has been blocking it in all of that time, John?

    6. Lynn Atkinson
      April 28, 2023

      Then delete them all overnight – all laws enacted since 1972. That will reinstate what was there before and properly reflect the half-century lost.

  7. Berkshire Alan
    April 28, 2023

    Afraid Politicians have been at the heart of most problems we have as a Country, instead of guidance by simple direction, we have complicated delay and expensive confusion.
    If they were running a commercial business then they would be bankrupt by now, oh wait a minute, the Country without printing money, and endless borrowing in the taxpayers name, actually very nearly is !

    1. Berkshire Alan
      April 28, 2023

      Just to underline the point about complication.
      I see that a new law is being proposed to give police greater control over slow walking protestors !!!!!
      Good grief, do we no have enough laws with regards to deliberate obstruction in place already.
      Guess that in a few years time when this new one does not work, we will have proposals for nearly slow walking, walking backwards, slow limping etc etc.
      Can some please get a grip on reality, the Police have enough powers already, if only they want to use them

    2. Ian B
      April 28, 2023

      @Berkshire Alan is it just afraid? or do they just want to stroke their own self gratification, take the money then refuse their duties to the UK, their Duties to Democracy, their Duties as Parliamentarians. If is wasn’t for just a minor handfull of the committed such as Sir John there would be total despair.
      You could also argue that if the leadership of the Conservative Party wasnā€™t stolen from under the noses of the Conservative Party we ā€˜mayā€™ have now been in a better place. For that we should rightly blame the Conservative Party and its members, the door-step-warriors the hard-working evangelists ā€“ they have allowed it, they allow it to pepetuate

  8. Lifelogic
    April 28, 2023

    David Frost today:- Britain is now rapidly giving up on excellence
    Apart from in a few areas such as top-flight football, we have rejected ruthless competition and skill.

    He mentions how ā€œthe Bank of Englandā€™s chief economist Huw Pill pointed out this week, our economy isnā€™t growing and we are all getting poorer.ā€

    Well we know why this is net zero expensive energy, rigged markets in energy, health care, transport, education, planning, housing, the loans mainly pointless and expensive degrees, insufficient housing, the vast size of largely unproductive and misdirected government, the BoE inflationary money printing and governmentā€™s gross incompetence over Covid, wars on motorists, small businesses, landlords, restrictive planning, endless red tape & and much other large government lunacies.

    Also the sensible Allister Heath:-

    ā€œBrexit has been vindicated ā€“ and our dismal elites canā€™t bear to accept it
    A buck-passing establishment would rather blame Brexit for our many woes than accept its own responsibilityā€

    Such little Brexit as they have actually delivered so far. But now under the dire Sunak they are still rowing backwards.

  9. MPC
    April 28, 2023

    I donā€™t agree with your emphasis in this post. I campaigned for leaving the EU in part by
    persuading waverers that EU laws would remain in place until such time as each would be reviewed by our own democratically elected government and removed as appropriate. Nobody campaigning said all or hundreds of EU laws and regulations would be removed at once. This is bad politics and merely shows up the fact that the Conservative government has chosen to do very little in actually ā€˜getting Brexit doneā€™, until now.

  10. Javelin
    April 28, 2023

    According to my cabbie there are 100,000+ uber drivers who on average receive Ā£1000 a month in Government benefits. That is Ā£12,000 a year when the average tax is Ā£6000 a year. This figure rings true with research in the Economist magazine. According to the Economist in Denmark and Scandinavia on Average each non-Western immigrant needs two Westerner tax payers to support them over their lifetime.

    It doesnā€™t take a genius to figure out this could cause the Government services to collapse.

    I donā€™t know if these figures are true in the UK but they are the biggest risk to the UK economy and need looking into immediately.

  11. Cuibono
    April 28, 2023

    Very childish I know but I would not attach a haā€™porth of value to even one single EU law!
    Make it simple. Junk the lot. If it is EU it is OUT!
    But then, do we have politicians ( except JR) who are remotely capable of making up a law for themselves, all on their own? Not holding the EUā€™s hand.

  12. GaryC
    April 28, 2023

    I predict the next General Election will see a very low turnout!

  13. Nigl
    April 28, 2023

    The FT is claiming this is going to be scrapped and anyway no votes in it. Indeed I cannot see any point. No one has set out a business case to convince the public that the cost and effort is worth while.

    Only the ERG seem to be interested plus its supporters on this blog. Time to move on.

  14. Paul
    April 28, 2023

    It was Margaret Thatcher who referred to ā€˜referendum- the device of dictators and demagoguesā€™. It is not for 35% of the population to determine this countryā€™s future- governments are elected to do that job. Can we get away from the nonsense of labelling Remainers and Brexiteers, to concentrate on a future path for the UK that is resolved by Parliament and not be the grandstanding and ā€˜terminological inexactitudesā€™ of June 2016.

  15. Sir Joe Soap
    April 28, 2023

    You must see from the comments here that most thinkers don’t believe the Conservatives have the guts to carry this forward. Whilst the “paid-up” membership supports a proper revival even under a high-risk proposition like Truss, the “paid-for” party grandees, Lords and Ladies, MPs, are by and large sycophants and the clingers-on to the Establishment.
    As the shoe-shop sign said “Cobblers to the gentry”.

  16. G
    April 28, 2023

    Not surprising unfortunately. Too many in government (in the widest sense of the word) are fully committed to the doctrine of ‘managed decline’.

    Maybe they simply no longer have the wits to forge a novel path, even if they had the will.

  17. Ian B
    April 28, 2023

    The whole direction of this Conservative Government with the collusion of the collective ā€˜Blobā€™ is to hold the UK back, to ensure the power of the like minded unelected unaccountable EU Commission remains dominate. Just in case?

    They have yet to realise that the rest of the World is moving at a pace, gaining more wealth and becoming ever more self reliant and resilient ā€“ getting on with ā€˜lifeā€™. The politicos of the EU was never the World, yet they have a lot of synergy with the UK ā€˜Blobā€™ ā€“ the new master race, in their minds only. The rest of the World its peoples including the peoples of the EU have more to offer than a new self appointed master race. Even their own aspire to collective of the WEF has no part in the real World.

    The real battle particularly with this Conservative Government and a good bulk of this Parliament is bring the meaning of Democracy back to the UK.

  18. Chris S
    April 28, 2023

    The blindingly obvious solution is for Sunak to ask Sir Bill Cash to form a committee to review all the surviving EU laws and report back. Nobody can trust the Civil Service to do the job. It could be done quickly and efficiently and the existing bill could be ammended to suit.

    Our host would, of course, be a key member of the committee.

    1. Sharon
      April 28, 2023

      I thought Jacob Rees Mogg had already gone through the regulations and thatā€™s what the 4000 were, that were to go!

  19. glen cullen
    April 28, 2023

    What Brexit ….I don’t see any Brexit ….I see the decision by the people ignored

  20. Anselm
    April 28, 2023

    The EU has behaved weakly over the Ukraine. Holland is under the Green cosh in farming. Sweden has appalling immigration problems as does France. The German economy is not what it was. Poland and Hungary are not happy either.
    As Europe weakens, our paths will separate inevitably (I hope). So no hurry.
    The Lords are in severe need of reform.

  21. agricola
    April 28, 2023

    You are thinking along the right lines, but have yet to come to the conclusion that I have. My conclusion is that Brexit is suffering death by 1000 cuts.
    First we have the undemocratic coupe removing Liz Truss from power, nurtured by the blob and fronted by Sunak and Hunt.
    Then we have witnessed the removal of Pritti Patel, Dominic Raab an the thinest of excuses but at the behest of the civil service and with no support from Sunak. They are now gunning for Bailey, how long before Suella is knifed in the back.
    Now we hear that the CS are kicking against the wholesale removal of EU law. One legal professional on GBNews stated that he could do it alone in a year but more realisticly a good law firm could do it in a month. This will not happen because our government, increasingly being filled with remainers, our PM , Chancellor and the CS have no intention of letting it happen.
    It is wakeup time for the ERG. This government and the Labour government to follow will lead us back to the EU. I would like to see you en masse remove yourselves wholesale to Reform and put a case to the UK electorate that could not be refused. The present majority of MPs in parliament and the CS are selling the UK for their own perceived benefit against the democratic wishes of the people. It is Brexit defeated by a thousand cuts.

  22. groundsman
    April 28, 2023

    What are you at Sir John? don’t you know yet that all of these laws are going to be needed by the next generation of British people who will have to line up our legal system so as to rejoin the Bloc – all savvay people know that so why make it harder for them?

  23. Denis+Cooper
    April 28, 2023

    My general view on this is the same now as it was on July 25 2017:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/07/25/what-the-german-car-industry-wants/#comment-880962

    “Iā€™ve said in the past that in twenty yearsā€™ time we may still have the odd EU-derived law unchanged on the statute book simply because so far there had been no pressing need to amend or repeal it. That is the situation in a post-colonial country like India, where after seven decades of independence they are still sorting out remnants of the legacy of the British Raj. There is no need to worry about it, provided that the most important of the EU-derived laws are dealt with in the early years after we leave.”

    The more immediate cause for worry is that with or without this UK-wide legislation about retained EU laws part of the UK will still have to remain in dynamic alignment with real live EU laws in 300 areas.

  24. agricola
    April 28, 2023

    Agricola,
    Read Barclay not Bailey. Apologies.

  25. turboterrier
    April 28, 2023

    People like you Sir John are in the minority and to those in parliament you are a PITA to the grandees and the excuse for those who supposidly represent us. No matter how good you present your options and considerations they may listen but do not hear.
    It is a disease that affects all walks of life. Even the Co Founder of Green Peace has voiced his doubts regarding the fear campaign on CO2 levels. No one will listen, too much money has been “invested” in it.

  26. Nigl
    April 28, 2023

    Isnā€™t Badenoch who seems to have caved in to the CS ā€˜advisedā€™ by that weasel Gove?

  27. a-tracy
    April 28, 2023

    These are the same weak people who conceded in 2014 that the UK pay the EU uncharged tax on prostitution and drugs, on an amount guessed by the EU at Ā£12,26bn pa (or a Ā£2bn pa extra bill on the rest of us paying for others estimated illegal habits).
    The French fought it: “French ministers have slammed the idea that prostitution is a free commercial transaction, and Insee says it will not include it or narcotics in its GDP figures. The institute considers that it already accounts for prostitution practised under cover of other activities along with tax fraud and unregistered work, according to economic syntheses and studies director Eric Dubois.” ifs

    Since we have our supposed independence, have we managed to stop the EU rules from making us throw back dead fish?

    Did we increase our own UK milk quotas?

    Have we checked that all the people we pay child benefits to are actually still here working and paying some tax here?

  28. George Sheard
    April 28, 2023

    We are told Brexit is not working this is because members so the government and
    House of lords are not excepting democracy,
    those working against Brexit are doing so
    In their own self interest , and not for the country or its people, why do we want to be
    Told what to do by someone in a foreign country that doesn’t even speak our language from birth,
    Thank you
    George Sheard
    Sutton coldfield

  29. Chickpea
    April 28, 2023

    If itā€™s too big a job for the Civil Service, replace them with capable lawyers who can do the job. Perhaps this will also give us staff able to be given instruction and requests for good standards of work without complaints of bullying.

  30. agricola
    April 28, 2023

    When you arrived at todays title did you not really mean “Exorcising Brexit Freedoms” . It would feel more accurate.

  31. a-tracy
    April 28, 2023

    “The Bill proposes keeping all those EU laws which are valued, where Ministers should bring forward confirmatory Parliamentary action to cement their passage into direct UK law. It allows the EU laws to cease to have effect where they are not wanted.”

    Why wasn’t this just done in January 2020, when the withdrawal agreement ended? Put all the EU laws direct passage into UK law, then withdrawn gradually when proven not wanted. Three years wasted.

    Why does your party have to make everything into a conflict. Who could object to all EU laws just transferred direct into British laws given new numbers then removed if not to the UKs advantage?

  32. Bert+Young
    April 28, 2023

    Who is running the country ?. The EU no longer has jurisdiction in the affairs of this country and we should stamp out any remaining dictate . It’s not that everything that we agreed to in the past was wrong or out of place while we were members it is simply that we are not members now , change has happened by a democratic process and we must abide by this . We must put our foot down .

  33. Mark+Thomas
    April 28, 2023

    Sir John,
    In the end it won’t make a lot of difference how many remainers are in government. We, and the rest of the world, are gradually becoming used to us no longer being in the EU garden. What really matters is divergence. Disappointingly the UK has hardly moved at all since 2016. However the EU has not stood still and is increasingly following its own path, for better or worse. Trying to convince the population of this country to rejoin at some time in the future would be a very hard sell.

  34. forthurst
    April 28, 2023

    Why was the referendum result a shock to the political establishment? Because the political establishment is in no way representative of the people or their aspirations. The reason for this is the defective electoral system of First Past the Post which facilitates total control of the political discourse by a cabal which is determined to control the destiny of our country irrespective of the wishes of the people by controlling the selection of who can represent the people in parliament for the only parties who people believe can win elections.
    The only way to create a positive future for our country is to consign the FPTP electoral system to the dustbin of history and replace it with a system in which every vote has equal weight. In that way new parties can arise with new thinking, ones that do not get us involved automatically in every foreign conflict engaged in by another country with a similar defective electoral system, the USA, ones that don’t get every single science based call wrong because the elected politicians and senior civil servants are not properly educated for the modern world and can therefore be easily misled.

    1. Donna
      April 29, 2023

      Correct. Which is why the Establishment will do everything it possibly can to retain FPTP.

      Our only options are to (a) refuse to participate in their electoral stitch-up so it loses any legitimacy
      or (b) vote for Reform and just accept that it will mean Labour “winning” with a tiny percentage of votes and carrying on the route of destruction at an accelerated speed

  35. Keith Collyer
    April 28, 2023

    “Brexit talent” is an oxymoron. The only people who have benefitted from Brexit are disaster capitalists and those who want to hide overseas earnings from HMRC.

  36. Bryan Harris
    April 28, 2023

    Some say this is too big a job for the civil service. I say they know these laws as they were usually very keen to get them adopted.

    In deed, but can the civil servants be trusted to do a proper job on this, isn’t their reaction likely to be that they would keep a lot of unnecessary EU regulations?

    How many laws are we taking about? Why not get the public involved?

    A website, updated weekly with a new selection of tick box responses would surely help to separate out the important one that would need further consideration by an unbiased panel.

  37. Bryan Harris
    April 28, 2023

    Brexit has been undermined for too long.

    Some say this is too big a job for the civil service. I say they know these laws as they were usually very keen to get them adopted.

    In deed, but can the civil servants be trusted to do a proper job on this, isn’t their reaction likely to be that they would keep a lot of unnecessary EU regulations?

    How many laws are we taking about? Why not get the public involved?

    A website, updated weekly with a new selection of tick box responses would surely help to separate out the important one that would need further consideration by an unbiased panel.

  38. Norman
    April 28, 2023

    Goodwill and commonsense are virtues we take for granted, along with freedom and fresh air. Brexit gave expression to these, with a sense of identity and sovereignty. But who will advocate for such fragile things in such a perverse and complicated world? The fact that some are still trying to do so is a comfort. Why else would I read this blog?

  39. Bryan Harris
    April 28, 2023

    It seems that Ministers are trying to avoid stamping their authority on their own departments

    Some say this is too big a job for the civil service. I say they know these laws as they were usually very keen to get them adopted.

    In deed, but can the civil servants be trusted to do a proper job on this, isn’t their reaction likely to be that they would keep a lot of unnecessary EU regulations?

    How many laws are we taking about? Why not get the public involved?

    A website, updated weekly with a new selection of tick box responses would surely help to separate out the important one that would need further consideration by an unbiased panel.

  40. Lynn Atkinson
    April 28, 2023

    Itā€™s not just the politicians who are delusional. It is asserted today that the King is hugely in favour of multi-culturalism. He does not seem to be succeeding to ā€˜diversify and includeā€™ a bit of black culture into his own family. Does he comprehend what he has done to the U.K. – because in this instance his own family reflects exactly what the ā€˜ordinary peopleā€™ experience daily. Until the new ā€˜cultureā€™ is Nr.1 they are not satisfied, even the obvious preference they experience is not enough.
    The King should know – he is white and therefore guilty.
    I am genetically 100% northern England, Scot and Irish. I was born in Africa. We respected their nations and cultures and maintained our own. We had none of the self-inflicted problems the suffered by the house of Windsor, which will cost them their throne. I am from a Service family and a lifelong Royalist.

  41. XY
    April 28, 2023

    I’m glad to see that you’ve noticed how the remainers have gradually been slipped into positions of power. And by a supposedly pro-Brexit PM.

    If actions speak louder than words then a PM who has done very little that’s pro-Brexit should be examined very carefully. His appointments speak for tehmselves. His selling out via the Windsor deal too.

    How has the Bill been allowed to languish in the HoL for so long? Are they hoping it stays there until the start of a new parliamentary session kills it off due to that technicality?

    Like many, I cannot vote for your party any more. Removing Bridgen was a disgraceful act by Sunak – he could have pointed out that resigning on principle on such weak evidence was not necessary. But no, Teflon Sunak slid off the issue.

    What is most concerning is that your dwindling band of sensible pro-UK MPs seem powerless. Even when you had the reins, you failed to show the ruthlessness which will be required to purge your party. Those smooth-talking MPs in blue rosettes are not you “freiends, no matter how you dress upi the pompous language of the House, they are your enemies as Winston Churchill put it when it was said that the benches opposite were the enemy Churchill said “No, they are the Opposition, the enemy sit behind me”. Perhaps it’s time you nice guys learned from Churchill? Next time you’re in the ascendancy, remove the whip from 200 of them, fix your recruitment processes… and you might have a chance.

    NB CCHQ fiddling local votes to ensure remainers are re-selected… you need a plan to fix all of this. Blogging is all well and good to trawl for ideas, but there needs to be a plan of action from the ERG-type groups that involves more than merely protesting when it comes to important votes.

  42. Atlas
    April 28, 2023

    What you say Sir John is only too true. I think others, like my self, feel betrayed (because we have been betrayed) by many Parliamentary members of your Party.

  43. Kenneth
    April 28, 2023

    It was always a ridiculous ideea to contract out lawmaking to foriegn powers in the first place.

    I hope no future MPs ever consider giving away democracy in this way again.

  44. mickc
    April 28, 2023

    The historian A J P Taylor categorised the policy of the UK joining the “Common Market” as “not a policy, but an absence of policy”.
    He was right.
    Since joining, the British ruling caste, both political and civil service, has been entirely incapable of formulating independent policies for the benefit of Britain. They are intellectually inadequate and lacking in the effort needed for the tasks they are required to carry out.
    “Outsourcing” policy to the EU, the WHO, and other assorted unaccountable and un-elected bodies is the limit of their ambition, and achievement.

  45. JoolsB
    April 28, 2023

    Whilst out shopping in my local town yesterday, I noticed a building project going up by Cornwall County Council with huge signs saying it was being funded by the European Union Development Fund. To add insult to injury, they were also displaying the European Union flag alongside. This from a Conservative led council at that. I despair.

  46. The Prangwizard
    April 28, 2023

    Here’s an example of the failure of your party and its government in trade and our economy.

    Today I bought some brussell sprouts in my local supermarket. They cost Ā£1.50. There were 12 in the packet – medium sized. They were grown in Morocco.

    Why is this Sir John? Why does your party and its administration continue to fail our growers and people, of England in particular. All we get is debating waffle.

    1. a-tracy
      April 29, 2023

      Sprouts in the UK are an autumn, winter crop (Sept to Mar). I used to work on a fruit and veg store selling mainly British vegetables but people used to buy seasonally then. Now they want their year around favourites so we have to import them as the ground gives way to the next seasons crops.

  47. Cuibono
    April 28, 2023

    I believe our postal system was wrecked by ā€œharmonisingā€ with the EU.
    I used the great new postman-pick-up-from-your-house system. ( Another ploy to make us ā€œstay indoorsā€)
    Letter printed. Label paid for. Letter collected. ( I spoke to the postie)
    Later an e mail from Royal Mail saying it was unable to fulfil my collection request.
    Luckily letter was on my iPad so I could print a second and send via post officeā€¦but what if it had been a really private handwritten letter? I havenā€™t heard another word from RM.
    And I gather that all is not settled with the Horizon scandal yet!

    1. Mickey Taking
      April 29, 2023

      A ‘Royal’ farce of a service.

    2. hefner
      April 30, 2023

      We have it here in all its splendour: ā€˜I believe our postal system was wrecked by ā€˜harmonisingā€™ with the EUā€™.
      1/ no need to check anything, ā€˜I believeā€™. An act of faith, maybe as your coming pledge of allegiance to the king?
      2/ there had never been a ā€˜harmonisingā€™ effort of postal services led by the EU. What was discussed in November 2019 within the EU was how to make the postal services more competitive through increased privatisation, and essentially via separation of postal mail (letters) and parcels.

      All processes that were already well ā€˜advancedā€™ (like in rotten) in the UK with the 2002 failure of Consignia, the 2006 panicky reestablishment/partial privatisation of International Distribution Services plc then thanks to the Postal Services Act 2011 the final privatisation from 2013 of RoyalMail, ParcelForce Worldwide or GLS (General Logistics Systems, a UK Company based in ā€¦ Rotterdam) and the subsequent arrival and growth of the foreign-owned DFS, DPD, Hermes (Evri) and others.
      What is delightful is that The Post Office Ltd (as the company dealing with rapidly disappearing post offices in shopping centres and rural communities) is distinct from Royal Mail.
      This brilliant state of affairs has practically nothing to do with the EU but is mainly the result of our own clever clogs in Parliament and subsequently created private companies.

      But ā€˜I believe ā€¦ā€™ I guess you deserve what you get being so uninformed and incurious.

  48. Ian B
    April 28, 2023

    In today’s Telegraph ā€“ UK Taxpayers face another bill, this timefor more than Ā£200bn thanks to the inept management of the BoE by Governor Andrew Bailey assisted by Rishi Sunak. This is over and over the previous taxpayer funded payments for their mistakes.

    The Conservative Government in this, silence, their refusal to manage the Taxpayers money on behalf over the taxpayer is deafening. Not only donā€™t they manage ineptitude they reward itā€¦ This Conservative Government wants the UK to suffer ā€“ why?

    What could all these Ā£billions have paid for?

    You will be punished for even mentioning ‘Brexit’

  49. Keith from Leeds
    April 28, 2023

    The current state of affairs is criminal. We left the EU to take back control & are now told we will repeal only about 800 of the 4000 EU laws because the Lords will destroy the Repeal bill.
    Too many MPs voted to remain because they had no belief in the UK or the people of the UK, & no understanding of what sovereignty means. The first duty of any Parliament is to serve the people of the UK & ensure we have energy security, & as far as possible, food security. It seems neither of those outcomes is a priority, but the utterly stupid net zero is. Why do none of our MPs seek to educate themselves about this critical aim, which is driving the impoverishment of the UK? There is now plenty of information & well written books showing the farce that net zero is.

    1. Timaction
      April 28, 2023

      No, they have invested too much to admit they were wrong and foolish. 0.04% of the atmosphere is the bogey gas CO2. You would have thought they’d pick another believable gas. CO2 is a trace gas that all plant life needs to survive. Without it, all life on Earth would die. I invite all believers to show/state or show me the evidence that I’m wrong……. .silence.

  50. James Freeman
    April 28, 2023

    Rather than scrap all EU laws, which is a very blunt instrument, you should evolve all UK regulations to benefit businesses, consumers and the broader economy

    To do this, you need to define the set of principles to reform regulation across the board and should include the following:
    * Common law concept of everything is permitted unless expressly forbidden.
    * No precautionary principle.
    * Clearly labelled British standards instead of laws and let the consumer decide.
    * If someone proposes regulations for the common good, like the environment and health & safety, there should be a cost-benefit analysis to prove how everyone benefits. It should specifically look at the impact on barriers to entry for start-up companies.
    * They should be non-prescriptive, enabling businesses and entrepreneurs to devise the best way of solving the problem instead of telling them how they should do it.

  51. Bob+Dixon
    April 28, 2023

    I am 82 and voted to join the EU.
    What a mistake.
    I corrected the mistake by voting for Brexit in the referendum.
    After a period of musical chairs for Prime Ministers and Cabinet posts,
    The current lot are to end some of the EU rules enshrined in our constitution.
    What a leap forward.
    Not good enough for me. Bin the lot.
    I am a Conservative but have not been able to vote conservative.
    Will I see a Conservative party before I fall off my perch?

    ,

  52. John McDonald
    April 28, 2023

    Our Politicians love to say how the people in China, Russia and a few other countries do not have a say in how their country is run and are dictated to by the state. We can’t defend how these states treat decent. The situation is apparently less oppressive, on the surface, in the UK but just as effective at ignoring democracy to achieve the governing globalist elites greater Europe under Brussels ( there are signs however that it is getting more repressive using the courts/legal system to supress political decent).
    At least the Chinese and Russian Governments are proud of there countries and want them to be politically independent of the EU and the US.
    I think our Politicians(most) and Civil service want a greater Europe so they don’t actually have do any government and take responsibility for their citizens well being and wishes, but still get a big salary which increases year on year no matter the state of the country.

    1. Ian B
      April 28, 2023

      @John McDonald +1

  53. Bryan Harris
    April 28, 2023

    ~

  54. glen cullen
    April 28, 2023

    Home Office ā€“ 27 April 2023
    Illegal Immigrants ā€“ 93
    Boats ā€“ 2
    Happy Bank Holiday weekend in a 4*hotel

    1. Mickey Taking
      April 29, 2023

      Nice holiday weekend in a coastal hotel for illegals, but little space left for others like tourists.

      1. Diane
        April 29, 2023

        MT: Tourists – You beat me to it. These particular tourists cost us a lot of Ā£ and I don’t just mean the Ā£6 million a day bandied around day in day out, the tip of the iceberg anyway. Along with all else our tourism & hospitality is being trashed & it seems to me it’s been forgotten about, with aviation (incl. APD issues – e.g LHR ), Tourist Tax, our hotels, our pubs / restaurants and Retail all coming into play. The question of tourist tax / VAT reimbursement in the news recently is one example where we may be able to make what is not an insignificant gain. It’s said that we lose out an estimated annual Ā£3 billion income by ignoring this alone. We need the tourist pound and spending here. Apparently they are spending elsewhere. Sadly our pubs are closing at an alarming rate too & have been for some time now, like them or not, a part of our British life. One example heard recently where the landlord’s gas bill alone in Jan 2022 was Ā£438 and in Jan 2023 was Ā£2370. He’s reached the end & is shutting up a lovely, characterful shop! So very sad.

  55. Sulis
    April 28, 2023

    Dear Sir John Redwood
    Perhaps they do not believe in Britannia: ‘Britons never will be slaves’.
    For your Party , the tide has turned.

  56. Geoffrey Berg
    April 28, 2023

    Most Remoaners, especially those in ‘the establishment’ believe those perverse enough (in their eyes) to support Brexit have no talent whatsoever – and it has been like that for decades!
    However I found out more last Wednesday how damaging ‘regulation’ (beloved by Remoaners) has become. I attended the 100th and last A.G.M. of the Manchester Building Society. It has been operating at a loss. So I asked the Chairman of the Society why it didn’t do what I would advise any of my commercial tenants who were trading less and making a loss to do, that is reduce staff numbers(Manchester B.S. has around 50 staff, no branches and just a Head Quarters). He told the Meeting that it is necessary to employ all their staff so as to comply with all the duties imposed by regulations and their regulator. Indeed he said all the smaller Building Societies and even the medium sized ones are struggling with the regulatory burden. So the Manchester B.S. will be merged without a Members’ vote with the Newcastle B.S. (their nearest branch is about 100 miles away in Penrith) – so much for mutuality for the benefit of Members, though the staff are being well protected! So this regulation is so costly that it is making it unviable for small operators to continue to exist and thereby destroying competition in the marketplace. So Regulation is not helping but harming consumers

  57. Ian B
    April 28, 2023

    @johnredwood – “People often need to use cars and vans to get to work, to do the shopping and to enjoy leisure time. So why do so many Councils charge us high taxes”

    Could be the destruction of communities is preferable to serving their electorate ā€“ they are of course lead by the malfunction of this Conservative Government

  58. Bramble
    April 28, 2023

    Successive PMs have not used backbench brexit talent because they can clearly see that what was promised hasn’t happened and no need for me to drag it all up again but suffice to say that by this time we should have been in the sunny uplands rolling in clover- but it was all a pipe dream – a pipe dream promised by deluded types who were characteristically unable to think this whole thing through and now see where we’re at – when I look out at the horizon I don’t see any ships coming in with cheap food produce from our new trading partners in places far away – instead when I look the other way and see only food banks.

  59. Rhoddas
    April 29, 2023

    There is no actual democracy, who voted for anything to do with the climate and net 0? who voted for the widescale handouts to everyone at the cost of massive frauds? who voted for open door of 1m+ people in a year?

    none of those points that were put to the electorate apart from last one when they voted against and were ignored? also don’t forget that 52% of people voted to leave the eu, backed up with an unanimous vote to push through the decision in last general election , when is that happening?

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