The polling  tells government a large majority believe the planet is warming thanks to man made CO 2. Polling would also tell government that a majority do not think that means they  should buy an electric car, install a heat pumps or stop eating meat.
More curiously around half do not even want to accept a free smart meter urged on them  by greens. People have been suspicious about these products fearing they might be used to change tariffs or even cut power off at busy times. This has always been denied by the suppliers and the smart meters fitted have not been used in these ways.
Now we learn that the energy companies do want to use them to get people to use power overnight and not use it during the morning or evening peak. They plan to offer new tariff schedules with cheap overnight power and dear peak hour power. They say these will be discretionary, not mandatory.
I guess it would be possible to set washing machines, driers and dishwashers to run overnight. You could not cook the meal,turn the lights on  or have the Tv running outside peak hours. The tariffs would have to be steeply tiered to change conduct but will put people off if the  rates are too high for all the normal uses people will have at peak times.
All this is only needed because we keep putting more wind generation on the  system leaving us short of power at peak times on low or very high wind days.
February 12, 2022
Good morning.
Smart meters are not smart they are means of control, and I do not want that. There were many denials about the things which are now emerging, such as load control where they can switch off your supply twice a day for half an hour.
The very fact that both government and the energy industry are pushing this hard makes me suspicious. They would not do it if it was not in their interests and not ours. So I have been resisting a smart meter and will continue to do so. I have an App that allows me to submit my energy readings and can turn off and on my own lights etc.
February 12, 2022
The meters are not being promoted by the companies because of the arguments made by Green political activists as Sir John states.
It is because they very much suit their business interests, e.g. by not having to pay meter readers, and as far as they go, literally nothing else.
Householders may very well hear jolly words on the BBC about their benefits, but the actual pressure – and the suggestion that resistance is useless anyway – comes entirely from the companies.
I have batted it all away so far, and they now seem to have given up. Since lockdown many people have set up online accounts to give their own meter readings, so the savings for the companies is probably not what it was, and their interest has perhaps waned.
I think that the user, and only the user, should decide whether they are free to use energy if it is otherwise available, and at all times.
February 12, 2022
It doesn’t take a big back of envelope to work out that reading 30 million meters once a year is unlikely to cost more than ÂŁ5 each on average. We have already spent at least ÂŁ12bn on smart meters, enough to cover 80 years of meter readers.
February 12, 2022
You can be sure that whatever the costs, the companies will make sure that the customer, and not they, pay for them.
Readings were only one aspect that I gave as an example anyway. There are others, such as being able to profile demand more finely, and to pay wholesale prices better tailored to that, increasing profits.
February 12, 2022
+1
February 13, 2022
In my London residence we agreed to a smart meter 5 years ago because crawling into the cupboard was a pain and they always asked me to do it anyway. The supplier was Ovo and when they stuck the rate up, we changed. Then the meter stopped working. It didn’t save any electricity anyway. When the new company stuck its price up, we changed back to Ovo. But the meter didn’t change back to working. Last bill, the reading after a visit, which is now much more difficult, was ÂŁ1300 credit. How come the readings are still not correct?
February 12, 2022
I have been using a web site to submit my meter readings for at least 10 years. I canât remember the last time a meter reader visited my premises. I still receive regular exhortations from my supplier to have a smart meter installed.
February 12, 2022
ditto
February 12, 2022
@Mark B; Indeed, and some energy companies now appear to be breaking the law by not offering a non smart meter when requested. Anyway, talk about reinventing the wheel, customers do not need ‘smart meters’ to use cheaper off-peak electricity in any case, many were doing so in the days of Economy 7 back in the late 1970s, not just for heating as was the original intent but timing their washing machines to come on during the ‘economy’ period for example.
February 12, 2022
I have likewise resisted a smart meter so far as it does not actually save any money at all, and my meter readings are already sent in every month.
I understand that series one meters are now obsolete due to the fact that they do not allow change of supplier in many cases.
Series two metres I am informed work on 2-3 G technology which the Government plans to switch off in a few years time, so they will then also be obsolete, given this roll out is costing all users about ÂŁ400 a pop whether you have them or not, it seems a complete and utter waste of money.
So we are all now paying for Smart meter installation, for green supplements, and VAT on all of our bills, why not scrap it all, and reduce our bills by 35%.
Smart meters about as useless as Smart motorways.
February 12, 2022
âSmart meters about as useless as Smart motorwaysâ, indeed, but think about the profits to all the contractors âŠ
Interestingly enough a FoI request (# 763.569) on which companies are involved in Smart Motorways got the following answer from Highways England:
gov.uk âSmart Motorway Programmes contractor detailsâ ⊠âLive SMP schemesâ, âCompleted SMP schemesâ, ⊠all on 17/07/2018
February 12, 2022
smart meters don’t kill people, unless you try to divert round them.
February 12, 2022
@Mark B +1
February 12, 2022
I use to have a âfunâ conversation with agents offering a free smart meter which could save me ÂŁ200 a year. I agreed to this if they sent me a cheque for ÂŁ210 each year as the meter they were offering was for a communal stairs which consumed ÂŁ10 of electricity a year.
As a side issue they are not âfreeâ. I understand the cost of a meter is approx ÂŁ30pa over their 15 year life which is another green tax added to electricity bills. Most people are quite capable of knowing how to reduce their consumption without an expensive meter.
February 12, 2022
Which poll?
What poll?
Will the govt. ever learn about polling?
Slewed, skewed, fixedâŠ.towards the desired answer.
February 12, 2022
And especially when the MSM has been pumping out the propaganda on climate change , the BBC hardly does a news, current affairs, environmental or farming programme that doesn’t come with a lecture on their beloved topic.
February 12, 2022
+1
Exactly!
February 12, 2022
Indeed or Skiing, Gardening, Travel, Cooking, weather, dog, cat, golf, cricket⊠programme without pushing climate alarmism.
February 12, 2022
Did the poll find out what percentage of British people think we can reduce our carbon footprint by reducing immigration, and the fossil fuels needed to burn for winter warmth?
February 12, 2022
+1
LolâŠno. They only ask the convenient questions!
February 12, 2022
SirJ those polls that suggest the majority believe the earth is warming is suspicious, I too want to âsave the planetâ when asked, I also believe in protecting our environmentâŠbut Iâm not a climate crusaders hell bent on a green revolution leading to the one-world policy of net-zero
February 12, 2022
+1
Absolutely!
One never gets to answer the question properly.
Nobody wants the environment destroyed but the people pushing zero plastic bags in which to carry plastic-swathed goods, are the ones who have been destroying it ceaselessly for at least two centuries.
February 13, 2022
How many worlds are there, then?
February 13, 2022
a good start would be continuing to eliminate plastic coverings and bags. Enforcing no sewage poured into rivers. Harbours/docks banning ships which are found to flush their tanks out in the ocean. Finally stopping HS2. Actually doing something about reducing import of LPG and Coal. Seriously tackling and banning the worst polluting vehicles on major roads. Installing clever traffic lights that do not merely alternate timed Green lights even when no traffic is waiting on the other roads by using detectors more.
February 12, 2022
Iâm pretty sure there used to be an electricity tariff called âEconomy 7â or suchlike.
People who went onto it did do their (automatic)washing overnightâŠor at least one hot load I suppose? But I think then water was heated by electric immersion heaters not the measly, max temp. tinny, annual purchase washing machine.
And it was how storage heaters functioned.
And slow cookers.
And dishwashers for those who had them then.
But none of it was obligatory.
February 12, 2022
Storage heaters were an all round con. Not only did they give off fierce heat in the mornings only to cool in the late afternoons and evenings when they were wanted, but no sooner had 2 million people bought them than the Callaghan government put up the price of the electricity. One of the things which brought that government down.
February 12, 2022
+1
Yes. I remember grandparents being much enamoured of them until the problems you mention manifested themselves. Then they were not happy.
I think they were metal shellsâŠhuge⊠filled with concrete (?) blocks.
There were a couple here when we moved in
February 12, 2022
The storage heaters I had years ago worked reasonably well. Heated up overnight on Economy 7, they had vents you kept closed during the day and opened in the evenings when you needed more heat. They did run out of steam about 10 pm. They are only useful as background heating. Iâm under the impression that modern storage heaters are a lot more efficient and effective.
I supplemented the storage heaters (village had no gas) with a 14 kw log burner.
February 12, 2022
+1
February 13, 2022
Dead correct.
February 12, 2022
I agree Everhopeful, just like I taught my kids years ago to pocket their waste while out to protect the countryside and animals.
However went I witnessed the thousands jetting into Glasgow, Boris FLYING down to London and back to attend a dinner I realised we are being scammed. Then I find out that CO2 is a trace element, I always knew it was in the plant and human life cycle, I now ignore any dozy remarks from that green section of politicians. Their game is over as far as I am concerned .
February 12, 2022
Why is this government ( and many before ) constantly trying to engage us in a game of make believe? The immutable rules invented by them.
In a world where cats are mistaken for footballs and said govt. is about to silence us forever?
What do saner MPs think of the Online Safety BillâŠaimed at shutting down dissent?
Can they be happy?
February 12, 2022
Of course.
Having denuded us of energy they must want to use smart meters to regulate consumption.
When the wind donât blow the switch will be firmly turned to âOFFâ.
Freeze, starve, die. We have already broken your spirit. So no worries there!
February 12, 2022
What about the state sponsored terrorism if ordering Cuadrilla to concrete over their fracking Wells.
Come on John, this is the decision of one man get up in Parliament and demand an explanation.
February 12, 2022
+1 Opencast mining caused our houses to rattle when they were blasting and items fell off shelves. I am sure fracking hasn’t caused anything quite so bad, so why sacrifice the benefit to so many for the benefit of the very few? It seems that noisy minorities make the rules these days, and the silent majority lose out every time.
February 12, 2022
Yes. And then there is tin mining. Parts of Cornwall are not suitable for building due to the ground being weakened.
February 12, 2022
@Mark B; Many would suggest that is a good thing, although some it seems are never satisfied…
February 12, 2022
You only have to utter the words ‘green’ and you’re front of the queue
February 12, 2022
@Ian Wragg; Not sure what all the fuss is about, any disused well has to be capped & sealed, no different to sealing old mine shafts etc, and what is to stop a fracking company simply drilling a new well should Fracking policy or economics change?
February 12, 2022
You’ve got it upside down, Jerry.
Anger addicts are looking for any excuse to start hyperventilating. If there isn’t one then they’ll invent it.
February 12, 2022
Ridiculous response by you NHL to someone correctly complaining that a company that could produce massive amounts of gas, which we need, is being forced by the government to stop work.
February 12, 2022
we notice that about a man from Amersham/Chesham.
February 12, 2022
@Peter2; “someone correctly complaining that a company that could produce massive amounts of gas, which we need, is being forced by the government to stop work.”
You mean like in the 1980/90s when totally economic coal mines were closed down well before their reserve’s had been exhausted, due to an alternate set of political and economic rules that meant they were no longer wanted?
February 12, 2022
No I don’t mean that Jerry
But thanks for guessing.
February 13, 2022
@Peter2; “No I donât mean that Jerry”
Well you might not have meant that but that is what said!
The fact is, if this govt is pulling the strings of the energy companies then so were the govts of the 1980s and early ’90s when they locked away hundreds of years worth of coal in favor of alternatives.
February 13, 2022
No you said that Jerry
I didn’t.
Try and understand the difference.
You often hark back to decades ago.
Yet it has little current relevance.
February 13, 2022
@Peter2; “I didnât.”
Stop deigning what you said, all you do is make yourself look like the troll -again, given your comment in question is still visible above.
“Try and understand the difference.”
There is no difference, just different energy products/technologies, different political ideologies.
“You often hark back to decades ago.
Yet it has little current relevance”
You say that but surely do not mean it, otherwise you have proved my (original) point once again.
Or are you seriously trying to suggest others (here and elsewhere) do not also “hark back to decades ago”, for example: citing the 1978/9 Winter of Discontent; citing the 1967 Devaluation; often claiming that every single Labour Govt has exited with the economy in worse shape than when they entered govt; singling out the late 1940s nationalizations or the form the NHS took under the Attlee Govt; even trying to pin the Three Day Week of Jan ’74 on the Labour govt that began in March ’74! I’ve even read far more obscure criticisms by others of the past, such as the decision to cancel TSR2.
Reference to history is as relevant today as it always has been, it is how we learn not to make the same mistakes twice, hopefully; or not to accuse others of doing what the commentator or their preferred political faction had themselves done previously. Checking/remembering historical facts saves many a political opportunist from looking the hypocrite, you should try it! đ
February 14, 2022
I didn’t say anything about closure of coal mines Jerry
You brought that topic up in your post.
Go back and re read what you said.
PS
Very sad that as your pedantic arguments fail you again resort to the T word.
February 12, 2022
Why should they be forced to drill again? The enforcement of sealing is authoritarian by fanatics apnd must be refused. I hope the companies have acted accordingly to protect their interests, and those of the country for that matter.
February 12, 2022
I hope Cuadrilla sue’s the government for loss of earning into the ÂŁbillions
February 12, 2022
@TPW; So these are production wells being shut down, not wells that either did not produce the expected commercial returns, are exhausted wells, or are ‘abandoned’ bore holes?
February 12, 2022
Well said Greg.
Billions of pounds worth of desperately needed UK gas resource shut down by a stupid government decision.
February 13, 2022
Oh for pity sake, we are talking about ‘cheap’ on-shore Fracking, not deep sea exploration for oil or gas, most of the Billions will have been spent on Geo-physical surveys etc, the cost of drilling a bore hole is small in comparison. No one has lost the knowledge, in fact many a time even when viable reserves are found other (production) bores/wells are drilled anyway.
February 13, 2022
Do you create contrary posts as your hobby Jerry?
It seems obvious that importing gas when we have huge reserves inside the UK is the wrong thing to do.
We lose tax revenues and jobs and cheaper energy supplies.
When the huge increases hit you later this year perhaps you might change your tune.
February 13, 2022
@Peter2; Thanks for the laugh, take yo own advice, and it will be noted that once again you choose to attack me rather than debate the point in question!
I do agree though, yes we should be using all the energy resources the UK has available, rather than be reliant in imports, so when will Boris be phoning Mr Scargill for advice about reopening the coal mines, after all with something like 500 years of coal under our feet tat is a lot of created coal gas even if less efficient that methane based gas… đ
February 13, 2022
You started it.
Harking back to coal is a totally irrelevant argument.
Yes maybe some mines that were marginaly economic were closed prematurely.
But what connection has that decades old decision by Labour and Conservative governments got to do with the stupid decision to run away from fracking?
February 12, 2022
They’ve spent millions sinking these 2 Wells and have been told to fill them with concrete. Would you drill again, I certainly wouldn’t.
Normal capping is just that, a removable plate is put over the hole and can be removed when required.
February 12, 2022
Good article in todays Telegraph motoring about EVs. 3 tested in rural England and all found to be wanting.
None doing anything like the manufacturer claimed mileage. Frequently having to drive with heating off to conserve battery
Lack of rural chargers and expensive if having home supply box uprated to alow eapid charging.
Another article on heat pumps costing a third more than equivalent gas system and not so warm. Let the rebellion begin
February 12, 2022
+1
February 12, 2022
In 2030 because of this government the only topics of discussion will be about the number of miles obtained before recharge and the number of wind turbines actually spinning
February 13, 2022
and how much local farmers get paid for having cut up wind turbines stacked on their once SSSI. And career opportunities for those who need to be employed recycling petrol and diesel cars, similarly for those who can use an oxy-acetylene torch. Also vacancies for those needed to treat hypothermia and malnutrition.
February 12, 2022
+1
Agree. That is terrible.
February 12, 2022
When is the Coronavirus Act going to be repealed and the 1984 Public Health Act altered so we can not be imprisoned again?
Ending restrictions means nothing in this climate of obfuscation and lies.
February 12, 2022
+1
The 1918 Spanish flu pandemic lasted 2 years
The 2020 Covid virus pandemic lasted 2 years
But only one made money for the rich and allowed politicians full dictatorial control
February 12, 2022
2020
Agree 100%âŠ
It was all about the money and power.
February 12, 2022
“All this is only needed because we keep putting more wind generation on the system leaving us short of power at peak times on low or very high wind days.”
Yep – the need for surge pricing seems to be further evidence of the failure of the UKs energy policy.
February 12, 2022
With our host’s permission … and interesting article by Andrew Neil.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10503839/ANDREW-NEIL-madness-ignore-answer-energy-crisis-thats-lying-feet.html
February 12, 2022
Had a look. Here’s an amusing comment; I wonder who posted it, “Why are old Tory white men telling us to further destroy the planet. Being green is about protecting the future of our planet.”
February 12, 2022
The reason why âa large majority believe the planet is warming thanks to man made CO2â is that they have been endlessly told this by propaganda from the BBC, governments, charities, duff experts, university with grant seeking vested interests and quangos, often illustrated with endless weather porn all wrongly blamed on CO2. A bit warmer and a little more CO2 is, on balance actually a positive thing.
Generating electricity when not needed is generally an expensive mistake as storing electricity is very energy wasteful and very expensive too. The more you load the grid with wind power the more this is a problem and the more you then need these expensive smart meter solutions.
The best solutions are fracking, natural gas, coal, oil and soon we will have better nuclear and nuclear fusion. Energy from cheap fusion could easily remove CO2 from the atmosphere were it ever needed. But it will not be I predict.
The idea of using car batteries to store excess wind power is also daft. The depreciation of car batteries per charge/discharge cycles is often more than the value of the electricity stored. Stationary/heavier/cheaper batteries are better suited to this, though even they make little economic or environmental sense.
Anywaywho wants to wake and find their electric car battery flat?
February 12, 2022
The reason the vast majority believe the climate is changing is because it is. So much so we can actually see and experience it in our own lives.
February 12, 2022
Yes, the climate has always changed, even before humans appeared on the earth. CO2 has been much higher in the past and not every ‘expert’ agrees that CO2 is the culprit.
February 12, 2022
The climate has always been changing and always will. Where I live, I was told 40 years ago my house would be underwater in 10 years. The opposite has happened and the tide is further out than ever. In fact, if you look at the historical coastline it has moved about 3 miles out.
The term Global Warming was dropped for Climate Change, I wonder why? Probably because there is no evidence that there is any warming.
There is no climate emergency. An emergency is when your house is on fire. This is all propaganda generated by Governments and the media.
The real problem is the uncontrolled growth in the human population but it’s un-PC to tackle this.
February 12, 2022
It is perfectly reasonable to talk about the growth in the human population. The problem is that you think it is other people who are the problem.
What if the problem is people like you?
February 12, 2022
Or you?
February 13, 2022
Yes, the CO2 per head is worst for the Canadians, pretty bad for UK people, but quite low for a Chinese person.
February 12, 2022
Agree â I also remember being told 40 years ago that the UK coastline would be flooded
The whole climate crusade is judged on the UN IPCC report that ocean levels would increase and the world as we know it would be destroyed âŠ.nothing has changed
February 12, 2022
I think that is what the Covid-19 pandemic and the vaccines were designed to tackle.
February 12, 2022
@Andy; No one can “see and experience [climate change] in our own lives”, all people are seeing or experiencing is weather, hence the old adage; One Swallow doesn’t make a Summer…
To know if the climate is changing, and how, one has to look back decades, even centuries, perhaps millennia.
February 12, 2022
Yes, there’s nearly half as much CO2 again in the atmosphere as there was in pre-industrial times.
If it were in a layer at ground level, then in would have increased from ~10m to ~15m thick.
(For comparison the essential ozone would be about 3mm thick)
If there were no CO2 at all on the other hand, then the oceans would be frozen solid.
Its effects are dramatic.
February 12, 2022
From lowest to highest, the major layers are the troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere and exosphere – which one are you talking about?
They exist out to about 10,000k, definitions will vary.
You seem deeply disturbed about 17 feet or 5 metres.
February 12, 2022
If all the atmospheric CO2 were concentrated in a layer at ground level of 100% CO2.
Get it now?
February 12, 2022
Well 1.3 degree rise since 1850.
Measured as a global average.
The world is on fire…lol
February 13, 2022
+100000000000
February 12, 2022
Really Andy? How many thousand years have you been around for then?
February 12, 2022
@BOF
To be fair, in my 70 years, I have observed the climate changing. When I was a kid, in a suburb of London, we had snow every winter. Often several bouts of snowy, freezing weather in a winter. We often slid on frosty pavements. Ice on pavements was common. Now, snow is very rare (and half an inch stops everything) and winters are much more temperate. Summers are, I would say, milder. In fact we seem to be gradually losing the seasons. There is definitely change. What causes it is another matter.
Reply Not so. The hottest driest summers I have experienced were in the 1960s and 1970s, not this century. Plenty of snow in various parts of U.K. this century.
February 12, 2022
This is the third winter in a row with no snow as yet and daffodils open in January.
I don’t recall anything like that as a child.
February 12, 2022
No snow this winter? Tell that to people who were cut off recently. Just because snow doesn’t get to Nottingham, doesn’t mean that’s all there is.
February 12, 2022
Plenty of snow January 2021.
February 12, 2022
Many parts of Northumberland have seen their first snow of 2022. … Snow fell in Alnwick and Berwick this morning (Thursday 6th Jan 2022)
February 12, 2022
In fact NLH in MY 77 yrs in Devon the first Daffâs are always out on the bank out side my house, and I can only remember a few year we had snow, which was gone by lunch time.
Different local weather , not global!
February 12, 2022
@NLH; “I donât recall anything like that as a child.”
Well I can recall seeing both snow and daffodils open in January, in fact 50 years ago it wasn’t unknown for people to be cutting their lawns on New Years day too, this in the central southern England geographical area. Snow being more rare than early daffodils.
February 12, 2022
The climate is indeed changing always has always will. It did so before humans existed and will do so after humans depart.
February 12, 2022
Andy,
The climate has always been changing.
There is no anthropological reason for why the Earth began to warm after the last ice age 22,000 years ago and there is no climate crisis as the Greenland (note the name) ice core temperature readings show temperatures up to 3 degrees higher than today long before the Industrial Revolution.
Does the Earthâs temperature follow atmospheric CO2 concentration or vice versa and isnât blaming CO2 just a Marxist scam/hoax to economically cripple the West as evidenced by the fact that it is clear that China and Russia are simply not concerned at all?
February 13, 2022
yep – how many in the UK died of respiratory issues caused by smog, vehicle pollution, coal fires and hypothermia being snowed in for days/weeks?
February 12, 2022
Hear, hear, Lifelogic!
February 12, 2022
+1. LL
February 12, 2022
@LL; You really do not seem to have a first clue as to how most conventional power stations work, the only exception being plants that use gas turbine (jet) engines, all the rest, nuclear included, have periods where excess heat has to either be vented via cooling towers or used via use in the steam-turbines that drive the actual generators. This is rational behind Economy 7 style tariffs and why some very large users of electricity, such as smelters, operate(d) mostly during the night, it is also what allowed pumped hydro-electricity to be economically viable, pump the water using ‘waste’ electricity (heat) during the might, use the water to power the hydro-generators during the day.
February 12, 2022
I understand this all perfectly well. It can indeed be uneconomic to ramps some methods of generation up and down rapidly. Another good reason why wind and solar power (that needs such rapidly flexible back up) is usually rather inefficient when this back up is accounted for.
February 12, 2022
@Jerry. With 50 years in the electricity generating industry behind me, I can clearly see that you have scant knowledge of the way a power station works.
Carry on the good work Lifelogic.
February 12, 2022
@Syd; Well you might have worked in electricity generating industry but you have zero knowledge of how boilers work and damage then, if not cause then to explode!
When a boiler is producing very hot water (or steam) you have three options, use it, vent it or over pressurise the boiler, those are the only three options
February 12, 2022
Keep digging Jerry
February 12, 2022
There is no excess heat which has to be vented, it is more efficient and environmentally friendly to operate at base load hence cheaper electricity at night when domestic demand is lower. BTW I worked in power stations for 40 years finishing as a manager.
February 12, 2022
@Ian Wragg; Which is what I said, try actually reading my entire comment!
February 12, 2022
They are captured by their own stupidity and hubris. Unable to admit their mistake and then doubledown and and find, what they think at the time, a solution to the problem eg smart meters. Just switch off, or charge more, at peak times and use behavioural science to control consumption whilst masking over the fact that you are doing nothing to meet ever growing demand due to even more stupid ideas.
February 12, 2022
It was always pointed out by those familiar with smart meter design that they were a means of control by the supplier as well as by the consumer. Your supply could be controlled (shut off) by the supplier. We now see a variation of this with the proposed surge pricing. I do not trust denials of the suppliers which is why I have resisted the bombardment of letters and phone calls by my supplier to have one fitted. Nor do I trust a government not to order them to cut off supply. That policy was established for businesses by Cameron’s coalition government.
February 12, 2022
There is another problem that most people ignore with regards self-reading and smart meters, the absence of the old style meter reader is a safety hazard. I have personally been present when a old style meter reader discovered over heating company fuses (they were so hot you could not touch the bakelite), the ‘live-side’ engineers arrived very promptly, having totally replaced the company fuse equipment they described what was found upon removing the old equipment as a house fire about to happen…
February 12, 2022
All smart meters:
– Have an IP address and are theoretically capable of being hacked.
– Have at their heart a 100Amp relay and can be remotely disconnected.
– The price of each energy unit (e.g. Kw hours) can be changed by the provider at any time; consider for example, if a provider added 0.5p per unit across a million households the amount of extra money that could be gleaned without anyone noticing.
Clearly, smart meter users are going to be vulnerable to ‘time of day’ energy costs. Steer clear of them is my view.
February 12, 2022
Smart meters use mobile networks and therefore do not have an IP address. Electric companies have always had the capability of turning you off – especially if you do not pay your bills! Smart meters all have visual displays so you can still check what you have been charged and therefore argue with them if they mischarge you.
February 12, 2022
What they allow is remote turn off.
So that means that if for some reason there were under capacity, then “they” could decide priority, as to whom should be cut off.
That might tempt some not to care too much about maintaining adequate supply security, don’t you think?
February 12, 2022
NLH :
Yes, and they can also provide thieves with the information as to which properties are unoccupied.
February 12, 2022
Maybe Jacob Rees-Mogg MP in his new capacity could repeal the EU intelligent (smart) metering directive, which we adopted
February 12, 2022
Only Parliament can repeal laws which it has enacted or ratified.
February 13, 2022
As Brexit Minister he could get the ball rolling
February 13, 2022
Johnson (Carrie?) seems to have skipped round the need for that !
February 12, 2022
Smart-metering has been an enormous mis-direction of capital – right up there with running an Olympics. I won’t have one in my house. As for your opening sentence, the public thinks that because of non-stop government propaganda.
February 12, 2022
A mis-direction of capital – one of the few things governments are very good at:- HS2, Wind Power, subsidies for EVs, test and trace, vaccinating children, Net Zero, the counterproductive lockdowns, over complex and very high taxation, the dire NHSâŠ
February 12, 2022
Well said SEA_WARRIOR
February 12, 2022
Dear Sir John
I understand our incomparable Business Secretary Mr Kwarteng last year admitted that ‘smart meters’ will become redundant if Britain ends gas boilers and goes over to hydrogen boilers. These would not be compatible with the current ‘smart meter’ models. I also gather the government has given the energy companies a target of 85% installation of these meters by 2024. I wonder if Mr Kwarteng has spelt out why this makes sense, given the hydrogen option. He must surely have considered the matter, and informed Parliament of the view he is taking, I would hope.
February 12, 2022
I had a free smart meter fitted. It would not work, despite three separate energy firms sending out an engineer to fix it. The problem is my solar panels, the software in the meters cannot understand that I generate much of my own electricity, particularly during the middle of the day. That is when my domestic appliances are set to run, though it took my cleaner a long time to get it. Last year I sold roughly 300MW of solar juice to Scottish Power
There is no shortage of energy whatsoever in the UK, as I have repeatedly pointed out. This morning wind is giving us 14.15GW or 52% of demand. We are also exporting 2GW to the French via the interconnectors. CCGT is only 4GW. Think about how much imported gas that is saving us!
Indeed, the problem is the tremendous price rises for oil and gas – imposed upon us by the fossil fuel cartel – that is holding us to ransom this winter
February 12, 2022
Re your sale, I take it that you mean MWh, SG?
So you’re claiming very roughly 820 kWh per day?
How ever big is your panel installation?
Are you sure?
February 12, 2022
300 KWH for the year seems more likely about ÂŁ50 worth.
February 12, 2022
Worth rather less than that on today’s export tariffs from domestic solar for a post 2017 installation. Typically they pay 3p/kWh, though you may be lucky enough to find close to 5p/kWh.
February 12, 2022
@NLH
Yup typo should have been 30MWh
I need a new laptop but can’t afford one what with diesel for my car at 153.9p
February 12, 2022
But you have a cleaner and 30mwh is for the fairies.
Your making it up as with many of your outstanding.
February 12, 2022
That’s still 30,000 kWh, around 80kWh per day, which seems rather a lot unless you have quite some panels.
February 12, 2022
On your litre of diesel at ÂŁ153.9p our government tax take is ÂŁ0.58p + VAT at 20%âŠ.thatâs a little earner for our government
February 13, 2022
glen – he is paying ÂŁ1.53p not ÂŁ153.9p – – forgive me I did have to laugh.
February 12, 2022
How many roofs does your installation cover? The typical 4kWp installation on a home generates about 3.8MWh per year, perhaps 4MWh if you live in the SW.
February 12, 2022
Sakara Gold : âLast year I sold roughly 300MW of solar juice to Scottish Power.â
Thatâs very impressive, Sakara.
300MW of power requires 1 million 300W solar panels running at maximum output.
Even if you meant 300MWhrs (energy instead of power) this would equate to a constant 34KW of power and require over 100 300W solar panels operating at full power 24/7/365.
Where do you live?
February 12, 2022
@Original Richard
MYOFB
February 12, 2022
Sakara Gold : âIndeed, the problem is the tremendous price rises for oil and gas â imposed upon us by the fossil fuel cartel â that is holding us to ransom this winter.â
There may have been price rises for oil and gas but they are still far cheaper than renewables, especially when it is considered that renewable prices do not cover the costs of their own intermittency.
In fact, if the renewables were to use hydrogen as storage to cover their intermittency then the installed windmill power needs to be increased 4-fold to maintain grid stability and output when the wind isnât blowing.
February 12, 2022
@Original Richard
Absolute crap – as usual from you
You do not know what you are talking about
February 12, 2022
Sakara Gold : âThere is no shortage of energy whatsoever in the UK, as I have repeatedly pointed out. This morning wind is giving us 14.15GW or 52% of demand. We are also exporting 2GW to the French via the interconnectors. CCGT is only 4GW. Think about how much imported gas that is saving us!â
14GW represents about 7% of our total energy requirements, and of course windmill power is unreliable. So 14GW one moment, 2 GW the next.
And BTW, the 2GW sold to the French (now -0.04 GW as I write) may even be at negative prices because it is cheaper than paying windmillsâ constraint payments.
Reply Yes, I have never denied wind can do us well when it blows at the right times, but you do need to have one hundred percent back up with all the costs of that stand by plant for when the wind does not blow or blows too much and you need to stop the windmills.
February 12, 2022
@Original Richard
Absolute nonsense. Have you ever done any research on the economics of our investment in renewable power? Your frequent posts on this subject are absolute rubbish – so I think not
February 12, 2022
I see one person quoting facts and figures that can be checked, and another person spouting insults, but not offering any factual correction.
So I know who to believe.
February 12, 2022
Very well said Richard
February 12, 2022
Just about every time you claim something is rubbish it is in fact correct. It’s a reliable indicator. UK primary energy demand was 6.89 EJ in 2020, down from around 8 EJ a year according to BP World Energy Statistics. Divide by 3,600 seconds to get 1914TWh, and again by 8784 hours (leap year!) to get an average consumption of 218GW of energy. I make 14.15 to be 6.5% of 218. Other sources may have a slight variation on the total primary energy consumption, so I think the 7% figure is about right. Your attempt at rubbishing with no sourcing is completely wrong.
February 12, 2022
Sakara Gold :
Yes, I have, which is why I keep posting. The true costs of renewable energy (if intermittency is unacceptable) are not yet widely known.
Windmills have a capacity factor of 50%, viz the average power output is 50% of the quoted installed/maximum capacity because of intermittency.
The windmill electricity to hydrogen and back to electricity cycle is only 36% efficient (viz, you only get back a third of the electrical energy with which you started).
Put those two facts together and have a think about it.
February 12, 2022
Gas is indeed only supplying 4gw
That’s because demand is down 10gw on a quiet Saturday morning. When people get back to work on Monday that demand will ramp up to cover it the wind will then be supplying 30% and gas 40%.
Also these gas turbines need to be kept on hot standby for when the wind doesn’t blow.
February 12, 2022
Do energy companies retain enough public trust to be believed when they say their time differentiated tariffs “will be discretionary, not mandatory”?
Perhaps the advertising copy may not be as explicit as “Sign up to our ultra expensive all the time single tariff or enjoy our exclusive off peak (3 a.m to 4 a.m.) good value smart tariff: the choice is yours and you can cancel at any time”.
February 12, 2022
You can also draw cheaper electricity overnight and store it in your solar batteries. Your smart meter monitors this too.
You may now just be able to have batteries that you can store overnight electricity without the need for solar panels, I’m looking into this now.
February 12, 2022
Many people who have EV’s use dual tariffs. One for the day, which is higher, and one for the night which is lower. They understandably use the nighttime tariff to charge their cars but, for how much longer as energy becomes rationed and choice becomes scarce ? I can see a time when these EV users wake up in the morning to find their car batteries low because the energy companies have been using them to cover short term supply problems.
February 12, 2022
It will be relatively rare for there to be a supply shortage at night once you subtract EV demand: running down one EV to charge another would be not very sensible. However, there might be a small risk of not being fully charged up on ordinary days. The time when charging demand will soar will be around holidays, when longer journeys are much more common, and yet the flexibility to fill up ahead of time is largely lost in restricted range EVs. You may fill up with petrol ahead of a Bank Holiday, but you will manage your trip to the coast and back and the next week’s commute etc. before you will be below half full. The EVs will be hoping for chargers they can use in Blackpool, Bognor and Brighton to be able to get home.
However, peak demand occurs during the evening rush hour when cars are on the road, rather than plugged in to be discharged, so I think there is a large degree of optimism built in to assumptions of how much grid support car batteries can offer. Too much assumption about pensioners keeping their car plugged in aside from a weekly shopping trip I think. Likely to be less popular as people discover the effects on battery life.
It will be bad enough dealing with the need to spread out charging even at relatively low levels of EV market penetration. The other day we heard that the government expect about 19TWh of electricity use for transport by 2030, which is about 50GWh per day. Spread over 8-10 hours overnight that’s a manageable 5-6GW. Aside from holidays most drivers would only need a relatively small topup requiring perhaps 10kWh input, or just over 3 hours on a 3kW trickle charge, or a bit over an hour on a 7kW domestic charger. But it you have 5 million owners drawing a peak of 15GW or more at some point in the evening that becomes an entirely different problem – and even more so as EV penetration increases. The problem multiplies even more for local cable networks to your local transformer. These are sized on assumptions of relatively low levels of continuing demand, and the idea that across 30 homes on a local cable only 3 or 4 will be using their kettles at the same moment. That sort of assumption is no longer valid for EV charging unless it is managed right down to street level. You may be in a bidding war with the neighbours for the right to charge up your EV, and they may bid you up just to spite you if they don’t like you.
February 12, 2022
Your working on the assumption that we donât have any national resources of coal, gas and oilâŠ.which we have in abundance
Thereâs no need to restrict energy usage, or have differing tariffs or create extra storageâŠif we use fossil fuels
February 12, 2022
Yes, our power demand is more during the day and less during the night, so the national grid wants to encourage us to use more at night and less during the day.
Essentially many tariffs overcharge us overnight.
But this has always been the case … eg economy 7. So this idea is far from new as you are trying to suggest.
The modern version of economy 7 have been around for a while now, for example I’m on “octopus go” which is designed for electric car users – the idea is that you charge your car in the same way as your phone – plug it in over night and its fully charged in the morning. A smart meter is needed to measure the per half-hour usage so I can make use of the cheaper electricity.
Sometimes you can even get paid for using electricity overnight since thats cheaper than trying to shutdown nuclear when demand is low ( the way the grid works is that power generators need to match demand .. so sometimes they are required to switch off … obviously we need more storage instead of doing this ). It doesn’t happen often, but I’ve experienced this myself. Good explanation here https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/why-power-prices-turn-negative .
Octopus go currently costs me 5.5p/unit (inc vat) for 5 hours, which equates to 1.4p/mile compared with petrol which is usually around 20p/mile. So this makes a lot of sense – saves me money, reduces CO2 and is great for grid balancing.
I’m not sure what data sources you are using for wind power, as I type this https://grid.iamkate.com/ reports 14.12GW wind compared with 3.55GW Gas, so overnight (and more so now even during the day) we are low CO2. The data at https://grid.iamkate.com/ does show that last year wind wasn’t great, but this year so far wind has generated us more than gas.
The idea that man-made CO2 is causing our current climate crisis is not a “belief”, but a fact. This is science. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_climate_change for more info ( eg “Nearly all actively publishing climate scientists (97â100%) say humans are causing climate change.” ).
Many households now have a home battery which can be charged overnight when there is low grid demand and power the house during the day. Makes a lot of economic sense ( I’ve just ordered one, with the current high energy bills due to our high use of gas, I calculated payback time at about 1.5 years ).
So I see the existing smart meters as a good idea – it means I can make use of overnight electricity to save money and use more low-carbon electricity.
Note that even smarter meters are on the way … eg you tell your energy company when you are going to need a fully charged car and they control when the charging actually happens. Sometimes it might be 2am-4am other times 3am-5am. So you always get a fully charged car by 8am but its at the lowest possible cost to you.
The electricity companies know when energy is cheap (or free) after all.
Honestly, Sir John, I would recommend a visit to Octopus Energy to catch-up on the latest innovations and how it will be helping us all. Looks like your knowledge is out-of-date. Looking forward to your report back.
February 12, 2022
Crisis? I don’t see any crisis. Can you point me in the right direction so that we may cast our eyes upon this crisis?
I’d say the crisis to which you so determinedly refer exists squarely and firmly embedded in your own imagination
February 12, 2022
+1
Agreed. Before we start using so called science to support a political dogma, I think he would best served to research such things as the, Milankovitch Cycles. Widely believed to be behind the causes of Ice Ages ie REAL CLIMATE CHANGE !!!
February 12, 2022
Agree
February 12, 2022
Yes Dom and in the so called scientists grants for next year! But remember also, science is always evolving and NEVER settled
February 12, 2022
PETER. Scientists will tell you that when there is consensus on science, it is no longer science.
February 12, 2022
Also if a subject feels the need to call itself âscienceâ it probably is not – Christian Science, Social Science, Climate Science (in the main)âŠ
February 12, 2022
No, they won’t.
Read up on the Scientific Method.
February 13, 2022
you are getting confused between ‘theoretical’ and ‘factual’ science.
February 12, 2022
Yes. A very fast moving technology , with Octopus at the forefront, too much fake news through ignorance albeit itâs a slippery slope to the next step of political interference making it cheaper for the Red Wall to âbuyâ votes or âpost codeâ switch offs when green fails.
Not Sure battery are as wide spread and expensive. The âliesâ around heat pumps now exposed. I see you may have to link your car to the grid to give electricity back?
How do you make certain it is charged back up when you need it. A sudden emergency? Sorry no juice and wonât that extra in and out degrade your battery even quicker?
February 12, 2022
Excellent post.
I agree Sir John is a little out of date. Electric car buying is booming. Last year the second best selling car was a Tesla, and I am certainly seeing a lot more new electric cars on the roads. I expect my next purchase will be electric (but then I was pursuaded to buy Diesel back in the day).
In the “old days” when the capacity of the phone network was limited we had different phone rates at different times of day. This is why some of the older generation still tend to phone after 6 (old habits die hard). My current all electric flat has economy 7 and storage radiators.
However the last 3 properties I have lived in have all been unable to use electric smart meters because the meters are all in locations that cannot get signal. This is my main objection to smart meters – no amount of chasing or advertising is going to be able to make the current versions of electric smart meters work in many properties.
The ability to use the market to match supply and demand is a basic axiom of capitalism. So differential pricing makes perfect sense for a commodity which is very difficult to store.
February 13, 2022
I am in favour of a free market. So let’s cut all the subsidies to green generators, and the protectionist taxes they benefit from and ensure that the market gets to decide whether investing huge sums in the grid to cope with renewables, and more in backup generation to cope with renewables is a free market outcome. It isn’t. The reality is that the electricity supply has been a centrally planned disaster, imposed by government edict.
February 12, 2022
The opening paragraph is surely a parody? One, the public is clueless, fact. Two, polling is a criminal scam, fact.
I have members of the public in my family. Believe me when I say, they’re clueless on every single public issue of the day which of course is great for governments, parties and politicians who can pump out lies, concoctions and crap knowing the public are so easily bamboozled
And polling companies like Yougov. Well, I trade stocks and I have never bought stock in Yougov. I don’t buy shares in companies that use its influence to justify oppression, State bullying, destruction of freedoms and utterly immoral methods of operations
Polls have become a threat. I saw a poll two weeks ago in which it stated that 85% of British people believe free speech must have limits. Now that is dangerous in the extreme. Without free speech governments, States and party politicians become all powerful and all dangerous
Climate change is a Neo-Marxist scam designed to encourage wealth transfer from private to the now authoritarian western State.
February 12, 2022
Neo Marxist = Frankfurt school who want to replace the leaders in all our institutions. The rot has set in so deeply we will need to throw these people out. Start by getting rid of the BBC and sacking any lecturer who tries to cancel free speech.
February 12, 2022
Agreed on all points.
Witness the Scamdemic. Whist they were all telling us to stay at home and hide under the bed, they were out partying. Clearly the KNEW the virus was not as serious was made out.
I said here at the time that the whole thing was a SCAM as they never closed the borders and kept moving the goalposts with regards to restrictions. Now they are using the Russia / Ukraine spat as a distraction to take our minds and draw away our attentions to the new powers they have given themselves and the problems of countless government policy failures. And it’s working!!!
February 12, 2022
Nay, witness the Leave vote.
February 12, 2022
I have not accepted the offer of a free smart metre for all the reasons the energy companies said they would not do.
Once again it is all about control, this time to compensate for the very poor and intermittent energy from wind and solar. When government or big companies keep pushing a plan I am always suspicious and look for the hidden agenda. This is simply to cover up for total incompetence and failure to have an energy plan that works.
I have read, I think in TCW, that zero carbon could cost each household ÂŁ18,000 per annum!
February 12, 2022
Off topic, just as expected, once again the UK government caves in:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brexit-uk-signals-it-could-accept-checks-on-goods-for-northern-ireland-1.4800080
“Brexit: UK signals it could accept checks on goods for Northern Ireland”
We still have a government which is on the side of the EU as much as it is on our side.
February 12, 2022
I have serious doubts the government is on our side. Past actions seem to indicate they care little, if at all, about the UK and only get off their backsides when their job is threatened, ie. self interest. Unfortunately, the other main parties are just as bad. Time for a new party that puts UK interests first.
February 12, 2022
The UK accepted checks on goods from GB to Northern Ireland when David Frost and Boris Johnson negotiated for this to happen in 2019. The British public then voted for those checks by approving them at the 2019 general election. Just about every Conservative MP then also voted for those checks when they approved the Withdrawal Agreement in January 2020. Farage and his Brexit Party MEPs all voted for these checks in the European Parliament as well.
Brexitists might now be ranting and raging about what they agreed to – frankly they are always ranting or raging about something – but you all agreed to this more than 2 years ago. Itâs really rather sad watching your campaign against the Brexit you wanted.
February 12, 2022
Unfortunately few of those who voted for it in Parliament are “ranting and raging about what they agreed to”.
They should be, and they should be pressing hard on Boris Johnson to abrogate the protocol, but they are not.
Boozy lockdown ‘gatherings’ in Downing Street, and consequent evasions and lies in and out of Parliament, yes, they are important and make them think that perhaps he should resign, but the potential for a resurgence of violence in Northern Ireland, and the break up of the country, are not that important to them – or you.
February 12, 2022
Brandon Lewis wants unionists to return to power sharing:
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/northern-ireland-protocol-unionists-must-to-return-to-powersharing-says-brandon-lewis-3565314
This is how one of them responded:
âNationalists and republicans have made clear they would not accept a single extra camera on our border with the Republic of Ireland, therefore why should my unionist constituents have to tolerate the EU demanding them to open their suitcases when traveling from one part of the United Kingdom to another. Indeed, a recent EU report even claimed people should be charged for the checks. Imagine the outcry if anyone had to stop at Aughnacloy when crossing in to the South and open their luggage and pay for an EU official to check it.”
She is right about the camera business, as pointed out over four years ago:
https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/12/01/uk-housebuilding-and-property-is-doing-fine/#comment-904450
“So I can fully understand why the government in Dublin is absolutely opposed to the installation of cameras or any other electronic equipment within miles or kilometers of that fictitious line arbitrarily drawn across the map of the island of Ireland which some wrongly describe as a border. As made clear last week, they will not tolerate âanything that would imply a border on the island of Irelandâ … ”
Oddly enough, though, there are in fact buried cables to count and analyse the traffic crossing that border which does not actually exist:
https://www.tii.ie/roads-tolling/operations-and-maintenance/traffic-count-data/
A map here:
https://trafficdata.tii.ie/publicmultinodemap.asp
February 12, 2022
Worse than that, it’s a government on the side of Sinn Fein.
February 12, 2022
@Denis Cooper; There is a reason why many a celerity, never mind politicos, never read the MSM or gossip mags – half-truths and lies; printing what they want their readers to believe, not necessarily the whole truth! Do you honestly believe the Irish Times will ‘bat’ for the UK, rather than either the wishes/needs of the RoI or EU27?
February 12, 2022
As is arranged from time to time the Irish Times article actually originated with the FT, at least two of the authors are with the FT, and it is described as “Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2022”.
https://www.ft.com/content/ec8b211e-315e-4527-a1e0-08fff2263566
“UK edges toward accord over Northern Ireland trade checks”
February 12, 2022
@Denis Cooper; The FT being a somewhat Europhile newspaper if I’m not mistaken….thanks for making my point.
February 13, 2022
Only too happy to help you make whatever point it was, jerry.
February 13, 2022
My point Denis; all you keep doing is regurgitating partisan opinion/theory pieces as if a fact, not proof of what the UK govt is doing, or planning to do, if these MSM articles had any validity surely they would cite a White or Green paper, a published SI or Bill, meaning you could do likewise?
It seem to me what the FT/IT article were reporting was based on a leak, most people though understand when negotiating it is often necessary to seek clarification, in this case what might be the minimum checks the EU would accept within a revised NIP framework, in asking it is not a commitment nor offer what so ever ever, although ‘trouble-makers’ intent on mischief will often dress it up as such.
“The verbal offer was considered so sensitive it has not yet been provided in written form.”
Well by that measure why not also search out Republican sympathetic publications or websites too, cite their claims, that the UK govt is planning to cut NI free, force a ‘border poll’, as a solution to the NIP problem (after all NI did vote to remain in the EU…), another misinformed brickbat found and delivered by you Denis…
February 13, 2022
People have different opinions Jerry
Not everyone agrees with you all the time.
I realise this comes as a shock to you.
February 13, 2022
@Peter2, do you create contrary posts as your hobby? đ
“People have different opinions Jerry”
I’ve never suggested otherwise Peter, so why should that “comes as a shock”[1]. But once again you’ve failed to grasp the nuance of the issue above, it’s about holding a credible opinion by way of citing credible sources or citing relevant (historical) facts – If Denis was to post a URL from a .gov.uk or the UK parliament sites citing a publication or a Hansard entry (heck even an official EU communication) then I’m all ears, until then “once again the UK government caves in” is opinion generated by those wishing to divide the eurosceptics and embolden the europhiles.
[1] an aside, you always appear far more shocked than me, given your usual style of ‘comment’ thrown back at myself, Andy and others not of your own political ideology
February 13, 2022
Endless pedantic contrary essays from you Jerry.
But what is your actual point?
February 12, 2022
Denis Cooper. What a surprise! Not.
February 12, 2022
Storage heaters used to be popular as well. As usual, part of the problem is the insane UN plan to grow the population to 18 million by immigration and the complicity of our politicians in the process.
February 12, 2022
Strange that the UN is only bothered about energy storage and usage of the rich developed countriesâŠ.never ever shouting out the likes of China
But then again, like our own law enforcement, theyâre going after the countries that have money and are willing to pay
February 12, 2022
It seems to me it is the Government who are responsible for urging people to use smart meters rather than ‘greens’ or energy companies. I refer you to the ‘Smart Meter Policy Framework Post 2020’.
February 12, 2022
But you’re forgetting to mention who ‘urges’ governments, Brian.
February 12, 2022
Ahh, Yes. I was. Well said.
February 12, 2022
Brian
Many of these EnviroMENTAL Charities (sic) serve nothing more that quasi-political pressure groups. Many of them describe themselves on their website as, Professional Campaigners. None of them, those that I have seen, have ever run a business, employed people or made anything.
February 12, 2022
Point taken. Agree.
February 12, 2022
+1
February 12, 2022
The two examples I have seen to exploit smart metering and cheaper overnight electricity are washing machines and EV charging. But this is already possible now with device timers, smart metering is not required now or as long as time-of-use is optional. The goal is control to optimise load on the grid and in the case of EVs the energy providers also hope to exploit connected EVs to generate income through arbitrage, regardless of the degradation to the EV owners battery.
Your last paragraph is the core point – they are doing this because energy is becoming a restricted and/or uneconomic resource because those responsible have failed in their planning and provision of supply which is being outstripped by poor planning for demand.
February 12, 2022
+1
Or to put it another way, they are using Smart Meters to paper over the cracks in the system they have neglected.
February 12, 2022
Smart meters are just another scam. A way to extract more money from us, control our behaviour and track our every action. They also put out large amounts of electro magnetic radiation. The only people that want them are those too lazy or dim to research the truth about them.
February 12, 2022
Agree
Usefulness for customer â zero
Usefulness for energy supplier â they can sack all the meter readers
Usefulness for government â they can control the grid and the customer consumption
âŠand they arenât free â they taxpayer funded
February 12, 2022
Sir John, I find myself at odds with you today. Smart meters are not free, their cost is another impost added to utility bills and charged to customers regardless of whether or not those customers have such a meter fitted. Also, it is not “curious” that many people do not want them. It was apparent at outset that they were a means of exercising remote control over individual household supply and that government was at best only telling part truths, again. The Mark 1s did not work properly. The Mark 2s reportedly do work ok, mostly and for properties that consume supply, but apparently they can have problems with properties that supply into the grid. Smart meters require the householder to power them and the meters send signals home many times per day; one of my neighbours won’t have wireless devices in her house. I have no problem in submitting my conventional meter reading online and do so when requested by email.
February 12, 2022
@Walt +1
February 12, 2022
No smart meter for me yet after being badgered incessantly a few years back when the media were reporting all sorts of problems with the first type. I send meter readings on line. No problem at all. I can go to my under the stairs cupboard regularly, daily if I really want to, to look at or record the number of units clocking up and I am competent if necessary to do a quick calculation to roughly estimate how my eventual bill will look. All very easy. And as for losing my gas hob to be forced to hob cook electric, then I’ve already warned others to expect the air to be blue & a possible deterioration in food quality. Gas hob / electric oven best combo to my mind. All those ÂŁbillions already spent, we’re so good at that though aren’t we.
February 12, 2022
And in other news it is alleged Truss/Johnson will cave in on NI and accept customs controls. If so a sell out and more evidence as if it is needed that Johnson is weak and cannot be trusted.
February 12, 2022
He has to go – but I think he will survive Partygate and the result will be hundreds of Conservative councillors having to lay down their political lives. I will be spoiling my ballot-paper in May.
February 12, 2022
I fear your assessment will become true
February 12, 2022
Disgusting sellout if true. Boris is so out of touch with the majority of British people.
February 12, 2022
all those electric cars getting charged is going to make things a lot more complicated for the electric companies as they overtake the ability of locals grids to cope
February 12, 2022
I have decided the only way I can be free to live the way I wish to is to install solar panels in order to become independent of the grid to some degree. It is costly but I am looking at it as an investment based on a comparison with the interest I would get from my cash rather than how long will it take to return my investment.
Only time will tell if I made a wise choice, but electricity is trending towards being more and more costly and uncertain. Fortunately thanks to covid I’ve over 2 years of holiday money to spend.
February 12, 2022
‘Thanks to Covid’ was presumably shorthand for ‘thanks to lockdown restrictions’, I take it? Countries with Covid but without such retrictions did no worse than us, or better.
February 13, 2022
Solar panels can make good sense provide you have an unobstructed roof that faces roughly South, don’t live in a cloudy part of the country or too far North, and you are able to make good use for yourself of the middle of the day output from April though September. The last bit is crucial. You will get very little for electricity you sell to the grid: the economics depend on saving on spending on grid supply.
February 12, 2022
Yes – they finally admitted the real reason for smart meters, which had nothing to do with the propaganda they put out.
Like so many things we are told by the authorities that turn out to be full of deceit, smart meters are but another control mechanism.
Again that is down to the constant barrage of disinformation on the subject.
When are we going to be free of the psychological brainwashing the government inflicts on us, daily!
If anybody imagines that this society is not broken, mainly thanks to those that have power over us, then they are living in a dream world. We are literally being taken into a new dark age, where truth is almost gone, and deceit is the only law we now know and be certain of.
February 12, 2022
Smart metres are smarter than politicians who want to outsource our energy production to foreign countries then stick their fingers in their ears, shut their eyes and pretend the outsourced energy has zero carbon emissions.
We have been told for decades there is 24 hours to save the planet. Told by groups funded by China and in the mean time China gets on with over taking us in terms of power production.
The only evidence I have found for climate change is chopping down all the forests for farming land 5000 years ago. Unless you want to go back to reforesting the whole world the best you can do it replant lots of trees and reduce pollution.
Carbon zero is a complete nonsense and has zero credibility.
February 12, 2022
There are more forests worldwide than there were 100 years ago. Deforestation of the planet is a myth.
February 12, 2022
Agree – The UN IPCC rising oceans is also a myth, and if thatâs a myth so is the need to restrict global temperature to 1.5c, and therefore no need to reduce man-made co2 or ban the car
February 12, 2022
Sir John,
It is very difficult to see the benefit of smart meters and people seem resistant to this coercive technology when the answer to the energy crisis lies in the enormous onshore gas fields beneath our feet.
Arguments against using this low carbon clean fuel have been throughly debunked, with one exception: ground water contamination, as has occured in the US.
If this single technical aspect were resolved, the case for fracking would be overwhelming and my query is whether yourself your readers see a way forward on this issue.
February 12, 2022
The main benefit of a smart meter is that it enables you to save money. It shows you, in real time, how much electricity you are using and what it is costing you – and enables you to modify your behaviour accordingly to save money.
I had a smart meter in my last house. We saved a couple of hundred pounds a year after having it installed. It helped us spot a probably with our kitchen lights. We thought they were LED bulbs – but it turns out a lot of them actually werenât. We have a very big kitchen. We changed the bulbs and our energy costs plummeted.
The future is about better insulation, using less energy to achieve more, generating more of your own power and heat – and the rest being supplied by renewables. That is where we will get to. Your generation can either help us or you can get out of the way because we are doing it anyway. We are fed up with Baby Boomers causing problems.
February 12, 2022
Dear Andy.
I take it that you need to keep the lights on in the kitchen all the time as it is so big, so you’re not into economising on saving power, just money.
February 12, 2022
Your experience with smart meters says more about you than the efficacy of them. Anyone chucking away hundreds on electricity is a bit dim, I’d say and if you don’t know what LED lights are – well ffs.
February 12, 2022
There’s a lot of misinformation about groundwater contamination risk. In parts of the US Marcellus shale, the gas bearing strata come up all the way to the surface. Indeed, Drake’s original oil well in 1859 was only 69 feet deep. There are over a million private water boreholes in Pennsylvania, many of them drilled into this gas bearing rock that have methane contamination without any attempt to exploit the gas. In the UK water aquifers are supported by layers of impermeable clays that keep the water above them, and the shale is 1-2 miles lower down with the gas sealed in by more layers of impermeable clays that have kept it there for a hundred million years or more.
The standard for wells requires 3 concentric steel cases between the surface and into the impermeable clay beneath, with concrete filling around them, and monitoring systems that check for any risks of leakage, as well as boreholes into aquifers near the well designed to sample for the slightest sign of contamination. The result is extremely low risk of any breach that actually results in contamination – one well casing may get corroded but not all 3 simultaneously – and rapid reaction to shut down the well if there is any problem, so that the impact is minimal and local, and cleanup and repair is feasible. There are already over 2,000 wells that have been drilled onshore over many decades in the UK without any significant aquifer contamination problems.
February 13, 2022
Thank you for that comprehensive post re groundwater contamination
What further objection can there be to onshore fracking?
February 12, 2022
On a related subjects- HUMAN RIGHTS – It seems the government is planning to reform the Human Rights act 1998.
How much can we trust in the detail when we read sections like this:
This is so vague and could easily be used against the unvaccinated to punish them for no real crime.
The concept of government forcefully imposing its will on us is far from being imagination when you take into account a recent law passed in the city of ULM, Germany, where they are allowing violence against those not wearing a mask. They can also be shot:
Just where is the government taking us!
February 12, 2022
It is fairly clear from the data that there is climate change and man made CO2 is the most plausible explanation. The main effect is somewhat warmer winters. The effects which generate the most hysteria – floods, wildfires etc – are mostly exaggerated, much are caused by other man-made activities such as failing to manage woodland or building on flood plains. The data do not support the view that there is a significant increase in âextremeâ weather events, though of course itâs always possible to come up with a time series or other limitation which shows that they do.
As set out very well in Prof Steven Kooninâs book, there is not the evidence to support the view that there is a climate âcrisisâ or âemergencyâ.
So it seems climate hysteria is rather like covid hysteria, but played out over a timescale 20-30x as long. We get bogus forecasts of doom from no doubt well-intentioned experts, damaging measures implemented by govts in an official panic, on which cost-benefit analyses have not been performed. And these measures – like lockdowns for covid – have little or no actual effect on the climate. As with covid, the statist, interventionist measures are implemented against the background of demands from shrieking leftists and panic fanned by a broadly leftist media. So of course, as with covid, the majority of the public âbelieveâ in climate change. But that does not absolve govts from a responsibility to ensure proper debate, including sceptical challenge to hysterical prognoses of doom, and thorough and rigorous cost-benefit analyses of measures proposed.
February 12, 2022
I rashly thought the emails unearthed from UEA would have sounded the end of the Global Warming scam.
No wonder Obama was able to claim a “consensus” when every contradictory claim was suppressed and censored.
If that’s how science really worked, nobody would have heard of Albert Einstein and satellites would unaccountably keep missing their target. Newton’s Laws lasted a very long time…
Still, it seems that human beings relish old men wandering around proclaiming “THE END IS NIGH!”
I find it strange that if a parent promised a new bike or pony for Christmas that never materialised, the parent after a couple of Christmases would find the child paid no attention. But the scammers predict “red wine will be produced in Newcastle in 30 years time” but such predictions never come true, but people still say “just you wait, any day now!” and still they are believed.
February 12, 2022
You’ve fallen into the Weak Inductive Reasoning trap.
Fortunately our court judges are alert to this.
Remember “plebgate”? It turns out that one of the witnesses was false. However the case rightly did not fail, because the others were true, and so it succeeded.
The UEA incident does not discredit the diligent work done at thousands of universities and at meteorological centres around the world either.
February 12, 2022
Wine was produced in Northumberland by the Romans, so we’ve cooled a bit since then. After that the middle ages had an ice age with winter fairs and bonfires on the Thames, so we’ve warmed a bit since then. All before the industrial revolution. They don’t tell us what caused these things to happen because they can’t just latch on to a fashionable cause to explain it so they ignore it.
February 12, 2022
We have long had smart meter style half hourly pricing for larger industrial consumers, together with extreme surge pricing for high demand periods under the Triad system. That encouraged many companies to install their own generators to avoid the peak prices, and it did flatten daily grid demand profiles significantly – in fact to the point where the Triad system is no longer considered useful, partly because so much industry has already shut down. It is far from clear that this was the best way of dealing with the problem from the point of view of the economy as a whole.
Now the problems are exacerbated by renewables intermittecy. We can no longer guarantee when grid supply will be tight because it depends on when the wind drops. The plan is to visit the consequences on ordinary consumers.
February 12, 2022
When they make energy supply variable with their greenery, to make the Grid function they have to get control of demand , thus smart meters. Of course they can’t be honest about it other wise it would kill off their greenery dead in its tracks, so they lie . From Gov.UK website…..
“Smart meters put consumers in control of their energy use, allowing them to adopt energy efficiency measures that can help save money on their energy bills and offset price increases”……
The last thing Smart Meters are about is giving people control, quite the reverse , as reported in the papers in Sept 2020…..
“ENERGY firms will have to power to turn off household central heating under new smart meter proposals.
The plans would allow providers to turn off a household’s heating supply whenever it felt usage was getting too high…It argues that it would only switch off supplies when the grid was in a state of “emergency” and that it would be managed through smart meters.”
When Governments are saying it’s in your interest or they are giving you control etc it is a warning to you that the opposite is planned.
February 12, 2022
Running machines at night is all very well in a detached house, but it is antisocial behaviour in a terraced house or flat. Most people want to sleep at night undisturbed and not have noise coming through from their neighbours’ machines and plumbing.
February 12, 2022
A very good point. There is also the consideration of not leaving on machines, washing, dishwasher, dryers etc., when unattended for safety reasons. This I observe personally. We’ve seen reports of what can happen, although as a well known comedian once pointed out, we don’t seem to have the same degree of worry with our fridges !
February 13, 2022
Yes, Diane, the only time I have ever had to call the Fire Brigade was when the washing machine caught fire.
February 12, 2022
Valid point.
February 12, 2022
Quite right and very worth mentioning.
February 12, 2022
Smart meter, funded by taxpayer, communist control of the people
Vehicle black box (2030), funded by taxpayer, communist control of the people
Why is a conservative government intervening in what is a matter between a business seller and the customer
Build Back Bolshevik
February 12, 2022
It is intrinsically authoritarian, but I don’t see why that would only mean the communist kind.
The private sector, by our shopping habits, mobile phone usage, browsing histories, and the rest, knows vastly more about us than does the State as it stands. A cosy tie-up between that and any government of whatever stripe would be the dystopia that you rightly fear.
That’s more likely with a right wing government too, I’d say.
February 12, 2022
Well yes, you obviously would say that NHL
February 13, 2022
Why would a government which brought in the Human Rights Act – with its right to privacy but vehemently opposed by the Right – do less to protect that privacy than those who opposed it?
February 12, 2022
Boris will not listen to common sense so someone has to point out to him that not one conservative voter supports this insanity, and the eco loons will never vote for him anyway. Appeal to the only thing that matters to him i.e. getting reelected.
February 12, 2022
I want a world where the customer is king and supply & demand is determined by the consumer
I want a world where there is real freedom of choice to purchase anything without my government persuading me otherwise via tax, social engineering or outright bans
I want a world where my purchases arenât controlled or monitored
I want a world where my government doesnât intervene between the relationship seller and buyer
I want to return back prior to Cameron before this Tory Partyâs slide to socialism and their crazy pursuit, in conjunction with the UN, towards green revolution, communist ideals and wokeness
February 12, 2022
Economics 101 exam question:
Are smart meters smarter than the politicians who signed up to them? “Discuss, using one side of the paper only.”
February 12, 2022
Atlas. How about one word?
February 13, 2022
a very short one, not a sheet of paper but the space not printed on our postage stamps.
February 12, 2022
“The polling tells government a large majority believe the planet is warming thanks to man made CO 2.”
That’s hardly surprising considering the relentless AGW propaganda being force fed to the public and the suppression of any who challenge the AGW hypothesis.
I feel that the bigger issue is the fact that our thoughts and speech are now heavily policed by government, msm and big tech. The situation in Ottawa is a case in point where the state funded media parrots whatever fake news the government feeds to them.
Members of the public have been uploading hours of raw video footage from the protests to YouTube which tells a different story to the official narrative. My worry is that now even Nadine Dorries wants to implement government control of the internet.
Dangerous times.
February 12, 2022
Agree, dangerous times indeed, I fear for our future if good men stand by as democracy slips away
February 12, 2022
Another example of making the something compulsory having the opposite effect of the intention .
If smart meters and surge pricing were a matter of choice, I would likely adopt the technology to save money. But being unable to reverse my decision, I will resist smart meters. Mission creep is inevitable. I am not going to risk having no electricity when the wind is not blowing.
February 12, 2022
Wise words
February 12, 2022
It seems that no matter how carefully I edit my own contributions they are not published. Boo hoo …
I have been listening to a lot of old country music recently. Eschewing sophistry it was famously described as : ” Three chords and the truth”.
John Redwood has become the opposite.
February 12, 2022
Sir John’s confidence as to the sorts of comments that he is content to publish appears to be waning.
Reply Not at all, it I see no need to repeat negative lies too many times.
February 12, 2022
He publishes a lot of rantings from the EUrophiles on this site, showing immense tolerance. The problem would appear to be …………………. you.
February 12, 2022
Perhaps a Ministry of Silly Walks should be set up. The Climate Change Committee and the whole bunch in charge of the Department of Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy could then be transferred to positions where they would do less damage.
February 12, 2022
There have long been meters that offer low rates of electricty at off peak times. These are such as Economy 7 and Total Heating Total Control (provided by the Hydroelectic in the north of Scotland). However these will be made redundant shortly as the Radio Teleswitch System is switched off. Those of us that need an off peak rate for electric heating in the North of Scotland will therfore be in all but forced into having a smart meter as the meter will no doubt need to be changed and costs on a standard tariff will be too high.
February 12, 2022
A smart meter in my house? NoâŠnoâŠ..NO!
February 12, 2022
“The polling tells government a large majority believe the planet is warming thanks to man made CO 2…”
Because the government teaches little children that this is the unimpeachable truth. The government includes this highly contestable propaganda in the national Curriculum under “Physics” when it is at best “Politics”. That this happens btw is thoroughly wicked.
February 12, 2022
“Set washing machines, driers and dishwashers to run overnight”
A practice which UK fire brigade leaders have specifically warned against. In any case, if millions of EV’s are going to be charging overnight there won’t be any benefit to the grid by household appliances being run then. And, since there will no longer be an “Off Peak” period, unit prices won’t be much cheaper than during the day…
February 12, 2022
Off topic. Sadiq Khan mentoring of gangsters by ex gangsters. It doesn’t work. America’s tried it for decades.
An ex gangster – having earned his stripes and goal time – gets paid to regale his war stories to a class of fawning kids who look upon him and say to themselves “Look ! I can be a gangsta, have the bling, the women, the fun, do my time come out of prison and have a well paid career with Lambeth Council and an affair with some pretty social worker to boot.”
The mentoring that is missing is responsible fathers – not gangsters, who should NOT be revered or consulted in any way.
February 12, 2022
One thing we are always told is not to have a washing machine running unsupervised because of the risk of fire, I think it would be dangerous to set up a wash then retire upstairs to bed, even with working smoke detectors. Yet again, bit like Grenfell Tower, the need to be green trumps safety and common sense.
February 12, 2022
Grenfell Tower’s cladding was mainly to improve the look of the area, and so to increase property values in that then Tory council district.
February 12, 2022
Twaddle.
It was an effort to improve insulation of the block.
February 13, 2022
The planning permission submission made it quite clear that the main aim was to improve the insulation, bragging of exceeding the building standards regulations.
February 13, 2022
Building regulations are not the responsibility of planning departments, but of Building Control.
The work was done as part of a redevelopment improvement of the whole site.
From the Planning Statement, the main concerns were aesthetic and social impacts.
It’s easy enough to find.
February 13, 2022
Who employs building control?
February 12, 2022
I do not believe those polls Sir John. Opinion polls are always fiddled to suit some pressure group, business or dare I say it, government policy.
I doubt VERY MUCH whether a large majority of the U.K. public even now, are credulous enough to believe the planet is warming due to CO2. Remember the council workers who voted to name their new grit wagon Gritta Thunberg?
However, it is true that the present Government seem determined to empty the national grid so that no industries can run and most citizens have no heat or cooking, even boiling a kettle. I am sure you know about the U.N. Agenda 21 and you can form your own conclusions.
Smart meters have been ALMOST FORCED on us for many years. We are not so credulous as to believe the propaganda that they are designed to save us money.
We do realise they are designed to ration our energy consumption. Causing many of the old and otherwise useless humans to die.
February 12, 2022
+1
February 12, 2022
Surge pricing is completely unacceptable, but a lower overnight tariff would be a very good idea. Given the foreseeable increase in electricity usage it would malke sense to try to balance this out by encouraging overnight use for things such as charging electric cars, running washing machines and even charging up the electric central heating – your local Wokingham company Tepeo would benefit from this!
February 12, 2022
âMore curiously around half do not even want to accept a free smart meterâ
Iâm really surprised that only about half the population of the UK have smart meterâŠ.Iâve been bombarded by calls, text and emails every couple of weeks for the past 10+ years to install a smart meterâŠthey even trick you by saying their installer is in my area
If after all the propaganda and sales pressure no one is really interested in smart metersâŠ.maybe joe public is telling you something â we donât want smart meters
February 12, 2022
People need to waken up and seek out the information on “global warming” published by real scientists rather than believing to government narrative. The “hockey stick” illusion proposed by Al Gore is pure fantasy and should be treated as such. However, as with Covid, it suits government to exercise an ever increasing level of control over us. Once they have that they will be extremely reluctant to give it up. Smart meters are simply another device to enhance that control over our lives.
February 12, 2022
Spot On…..I’d just like to see some balanced data
February 12, 2022
The politicians are still saying that using windmills :
âWe are now the worldâs leader in offshore wind â a fantastic success story of Government and the private sector working hand in hand to cut costs and deliver ever more electricity at plummeting costs.â (Conservative Party manifesto 2019)
âWe will become the Saudi Arabia of windâ (PM Sept 2020)
âWe will be able to power the country on the breezes that blow around these islandsâ (PM Oct 2020)
But a reading of the Net Zero Strategy and watching Parliamentary Commission meetings shows a plan to use far less power in 2050 than we use at present and because of the intermittency of renewables the system will be geared to matching demand to supply rather than supply to demand as we have today.
Hence the need for smart meters to curb demand when the wind doesnât blow either through pricing or rolling blackouts.
Weâve already been told by a transport minister that owning a car is outdated â20th-century thinkingâ and we must move to âshared mobilityâ.
A fortaste of what is to come.
February 12, 2022
âWe will become the Saudi Arabia of windâ (PM Sept 2020)
Living in tents, in a desolate desert subservient to the elites praying to the new green gods
February 12, 2022
For me living in Spain it is not a consideration. However I am reminded of the saying beware of greeks baring gifts.
February 13, 2022
Beware of the EU smart meter directive
February 12, 2022
SURELY anyone who does their own research knows that there is no correlation between CO2 and the warming of the planet?
There is so much information out there now it is simply appalling that such ignorance still exists.
February 13, 2022
The ignorance appears to be centered in our own parliament
February 13, 2022
Smart meters are for CONTROL purposes. Big Brother is watching. Why do you think they are offered/installed for free. Nothing is FREE in life. You will soon find out.
February 13, 2022
“The polling tells government a large majority believe the planet is warming thanks to man made CO2.”
“Public Opinion” is a social construction. Each and every day we are subject to yet more terrifying environmental news, claiming catastrophe of one sort or another and it is all our fault, we must change how we live and we can then “mend the planet”. This is the art of propaganda and it is internalised, such that it is difficult to find even friends and family who don’t believe the CO2 story from the UN. It is not surprising therefore, that polls simply reflect back what has been input so consistently and effectively. By doing so, they further add to the “weight of opinion” and ensures that contrary facts and evidence are discounted as the ramblings of “denialists”.
February 13, 2022
At the moment we have a demand led electricity supply. As fossil fuels become depleted, we shall have to turn to other means. This includes smart meters. The days of cheap fuel are over.
It will take decades and lots of dosh to implement this, we have to start now.
The consumer will pay, nobody else (including the government) has money. Government handouts are just them giving out your money.
There is no alternative so please stop winging. Exactly the same thing is being done in many other countries.
February 13, 2022
I came here to explain why “smart” meters are a thoroughly bad idea, but I see that I don’t have to, because I’ve been beaten to it by, so far as I can tell, everybody else.
Well done, chaps.