John Redwood (Wokingham)
(Con): This Parliament is letting the public down. Three years and four
months ago, I and 17.4 million people voted to leave the European Union. We
voted to take back control of our laws, our borders and our money, and we
are still waiting for that to happen. We were told by the then Prime Minister
that he would send a letter announcing our decision immediately after the
result, and under the treaty we expected to be out after two years with or
without agreement by the European Union.
Instead, we find
ourselves today having yet another debate after so many groundhog days in this
place, with the same people rehearsing the same arguments, as around half the
Members of the House of Commons—we will find out whether it is more than
half—are still trying to stop any kind of Brexit, and are forcing those of us
who believe in Brexit to dilute what we are trying to do and delaying our
enjoying the fruits of our Brexit vision.
Let us look at
the agreement, because it is far from ideal from the point of view of a leave
voter. I am delighted that the Prime Minister has today reassured us that we
will completely take back control of our fish, and that we will decide how that
amazing resource is nurtured, looked after and used by our country. That is
very welcome. I also accept that the documents show that we will not have to go
into battle with our troops on a vote that we have lost, and that we are not
about to be sucked into losing the sovereign control of our Government and
Parliament over our foreign and defence policy.
But we are still
in trouble with the powers of the European Court of Justice over our laws. I am
grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) for
contributing to the Bill, because there is now a sovereignty clause, and I hope
it works; it is a definite improvement. However, I am extremely worried by the
situation in Northern Ireland.
Jim Shannon (Strangford)
(DUP): Does the right hon.
Gentleman not understand that Unionists believe that our sovereignty has been
removed by this agreement, and that being a Unionist in Northern Ireland is
very different from being a Unionist in the rest of the United Kingdom,
including the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency? Does he not feel that
Unionists have been duped and deceived in how this agreement has been brought
forward?
John Redwood: I
do not like the provisions on Northern Ireland for the reasons that the hon.
Gentleman and his colleagues have set out. I want the whole country to leave,
and Northern Ireland to be a full part of the United Kingdom under the same
arrangements. If there are any different arrangements, I certainly want a
consent mechanism that is acceptable to the representatives from the Democratic
Unionist party and the people they represent.
I am also extremely worried about the money in this set
of proposals. We never talk about the money, and so many MPs seem to think that
giving billions away to the European Union is just fine. Taking back control of
our money was central to the campaign. Indeed, it was very contentious, because
people argued about exactly how much it was. I do not think it has been
properly quantified. The liabilities are potentially large and long lasting,
and there is no attempt in the agreement or the Bill to control them.
Owen Paterson (North
Shropshire) (Con): Could my right hon. Friend give us his best estimate of
what he thinks the bill will be?
John Redwood: Well, we are told £39 billion, but I think
that is a very low estimate; I think it will be considerably more than that and
will stretch many years into the future under some of the headings that
we are providing for. My worry is that the EU will be the main driver in
deciding what the bill is because there is not a satisfactory dispute
resolution procedure. That means that the EU could levy the bill, saying that
it is European law and that it knows best what we should be paying. We have to
be extremely careful.
If the Bill does make any progress tonight—that is not
looking very likely from some of the things people are saying—I hope that there
will be considerable concentration in Committee on whether there are mechanisms
for having better discipline over the money, because we voted to take back
control of the money. I want some of that money for hospitals, schools and
other public facilities in my constituency, and I hope that many other Members
of Parliament take the same view. It would be very galling indeed if we found
that we were technically out of the European Union but were still paying it a
great deal of money.
I approach this agreement in a spirit of disappointment,
but I think the Prime Minister was deeply damaged and undermined by the
European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019, which greatly reduced the
bargaining leverage of the United Kingdom Government, and I think people
recognise that. It is strange that that legislation, which might as well be
renamed the “breaking the Prime Minister’s promises” Act, is permissible
because surely we either have confidence in our Government and in the Prime
Minister to be able to keep his word, or we do not have confidence in our
Government collectively, in which case we can get a different Government. This
Prime Minister has said that he will take us out on 31 October. There is a lot
of support for that in the country, and I hope that we can find a way to make
it take place. The Prime Minister has said that we would preferably leave with
a deal, but that if we cannot get a decent deal we will leave without a
so-called deal.
I think the language is totally misleading. There is no
such thing as a no-deal Brexit. There is either leaving and signing a
withdrawal agreement or leaving and not signing a withdrawal agreement. Were we
to leave not signing a withdrawal agreement, there is an aviation agreement and
a Government purchasing agreement, there are haulage and customs arrangements,
and there is a general agreement on facilitation of trade through the WTO, so
we would have a managed WTO exit, which I think would work extremely well.
I want to spend
that money in Britain to promote growth and a stronger economy. I want the free
trade agreements that I think we might be able to generate with the rest of the
world. If we just left, the EU would want to negotiate a free trade agreement
with us, but all the time it thinks it has a chance of our not leaving it is not
going to offer anything or be positive about that, because it thinks it might,
from its point of view, do something better.