The EU Summit

The UK may want the EU summit to be about that post Brexit relationship, but much of the time will be taken up with the rest of the EU trying to stitch together a new migration policy. That will be followed by a meeting of the Eurozone Heads with Germany wanting to reinforce the austere disciplines of the scheme against possible challenges from Italy and others. The rows over migration may make the issues over the Euro more intractable and fractious.

When the PM is allowed to put the UK case I want her to be strong as well as her usual courteous and helpful self. She should say the UK negotiators have been more than generous so far in responding to EU demands for money we do not owe, and in potentially accepting powers and controls we do not have to accept during a possible transition. In return the EU now needs to offer a comprehensive free trade agreement for goods and services which leaves the UK free to spend it own money, make its own laws and conduct its own trade policy. If the EU rejects any such suggestion then the UK should simply leave on March 29 2019.

The public have rightly shrugged off the latest round of Project Fear statements. Airbus has no wish to try to sell planes without wings, and is not about to substitute Chinese wings for UK ones. There need be no queues of lorries at Dover or other UK ports once we leave. The UK will control those borders and will use the electronic and advance filing systems we already use for our trade to avoid needing to calculate customs dues whilst the driver waits at the border.

There hasn’t been a new Project Fear worry for some time. The Remain media just seem to like recycling old materials time after time, with no particular purpose.

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300 Comments

  1. Mark B
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    She should say the UK negotiators have been more than generous so far in responding to EU demands for money we do not owe, and in potentially accepting powers and controls we do not have to accept . .

    I would just like to ask my fellow contributors to this site to ponder on the above.

    In return the EU now needs to offer a comprehensive free trade agreement . . .

    Why ? And what if they don’t ? Which they will not. What then, because the PM has already ruled out the no deal option.

    We are being sold out. The UK will sign up to an EU-LITE deal.

    PS This is not a ‘Summit’, it is a meeting.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      Pondering…pondering…still pondering…

      Hope – I’m sure you are right, not only will the EU negotiators Barnier etc. not accept, the other 27 EU member countries will not accept.

      • Mark B
        Posted June 29, 2018 at 5:23 am | Permalink

        Shame. I thought you would amongst those clever enough to see it. Obviously wrong.

    • Peter Wood
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:48 am | Permalink

      Dr. Redwood is, as always, positive and hopeful.

      However in reality this meeting will have almost no interest in Brexit, it’s all about the survival of the EU/Merkel. Mrs May should more usefully stay home and work on balancing the budget, based on a WTO terms of trade with European nations.

      Just wait a few months and the EU as we know it now will probably no longer exist.

    • Rob Drummond
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

      You ask: Why ?

      i a surprised you dont appear to know already! and the answer is

      ”Because its in their interests” and if you dont think so I suggest you do more research.

      • Mark B
        Posted June 29, 2018 at 5:25 am | Permalink

        But whose interests ? You clearly cannot see that it is the EU Commission that is doing the negotiating not the member countries.

    • Bob
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      She is going for a soft Brexit with the UK following EU rules/ regulations and upholding EU law. This will stop Britain signing free trade agreements.

      To ensure she gets her way, the whole cabinet, not the Brexit subcommittee has been invited to Chequers to agree.

      • Richard Evans
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

        I have said from the day she was shoe horned into the position of PM, Theresa the Appeaser would “sell us down the river”. She is the Establishment choice.

        “When the PM is allowed to put the UK case I want her to be strong as well as her usual courteous and helpful self.”

        She is NOT strong and remember there are no friends in Business.

        Utilising a similar quote from Abraham Lincoln – Only MAY could have managed such a coup, wringing one last spectacular defeat from the jaws of victory.

        • Mark B
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 5:27 am | Permalink

          +1

      • JasonW
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

        She’s gone over there looking for a deal with them as if we were equal partners..the EU won’t see it like that..they see too many red lines in place and for that reason there will be no deal..so the clock is being wound down for appearances sake

        • Zorro
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

          Why should they do anything when they know she is useless, a hopeless negotiator and has conceded everything!?

          zoro

      • Ken Worthy
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

        Dead right. Even the Brexiteers seem to be preparing to surrender. One was quoted as saying that we should not put free movement of people into the Brexit white paper. Instead we should keep it as a last minute bargaining chip. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

    • Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink

      According to the Conservative Home website May wants to surrender. So she has sidelined her Brexit subcommittee and will try to appeal to a broader Remain base in the full Cabinet.

      I don’t trust her and she could try to keep people in the dark for as long as possible and then rush through a fudge which is not fully understood.

      One problem is Brexiteer MPs are not completely united and can be picked off individually.

      Meanwhile the EU will continue to stall. At least Barnier has been honest in saying there is nothing on offer. May’s problem is her unwillingness to go to WTO terms and the civil service attempts to sabotage them.

    • NickC
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:54 am | Permalink

      Mark B, Of course the EU won’t offer us a comprehensive free trade deal – it would destroy their fortress Europe. The EEC didn’t offer us such a deal in 1972, they didn’t even do so in the mid 1980s as Mrs Thatcher’s 1988 Bruges speech told us. So they’re not about to change their minds now.

      The idea that the EU is interested in trade rather than power, is the triumph of hope over reality. For years otherwise sound eurosceptics who know the EU for what it is – a corrupt political project to recreate the Roman Empire by technocracy rather than war – have ignored their own analyses. There is no magic about this – it is independence or subjugation.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

      Mark B

      Worst case scenario….

      Due to the current severe difficulties facing the EU, needing to shift its usual intransigent stance significantly to negate a possible EU fracture, there will be a clamour by the usual suspects (Blair et al), to initiate a new deal proposal that will (perhaps) carry greater favour with the majority of UK citizens. On the suggestion, that the people are so very tired of the Government’s sheer incompetence and lack of Brexit progress…..coinciding with the usual tedious MSM blah, blah, blah spin that will erupt to support this new initiative!

      Referendum 2. could be put back on the table with the message to the UK citizens the EU will be much more willing to give the UK a much better deal to remain?

      • Helen Smith
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

        There won’t be a second referendum because if there was the government would have to give Sturgeon a second Scottish referendum.

    • Posted June 28, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

      Mark B

      “We are being sold out. The UK will sign up to an EU-LITE deal.”

      Sadly, I think you are correct. There is not the resolve in parliament to stop her doing so.

      There was a theory that she was just waiting to be forced by circumstances into a ‘No Deal’ outcome where she could claim she had no other choice. However, her whole attitude is so demonstrably pro-EU that this can be dismissed as wishful thinking.

      More likelihood that she will remove herself from public life – sharpish – once the deed is done.

    • Posted June 28, 2018 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

      In return for what? the UK paying for what it owes anyway?

      • ji
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

        We owe nothing. Hopefully you’ll get it.

      • NickC
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

        Rien, At least half the £39bn is a bribe pure and simple. You know as well as I do that we cannot owe more than we would have paid in if we had remained in the EU (about £17.5bn net).

  2. zorro
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    I would suugest that their purpose is very clear- to undermine the will of the people. These people need to pay a price for their deliberate and unpatriotic undermining of our position.

    zorro

    • jerry
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:57 am | Permalink

      @zorro; “I would suugest that their purpose is very clear- to undermine the will of the people.”

      Oh prey, do tell us what that “will of the people” is, there were 29 different Leave and 18 Remain campaigns, no one knows what the will of the people is, other than to leave the political institution of the European Union. Nor did the GE of last year shine any greater light on the will of the people either.

      Want to tell others what the will of the people is, hold a specific referenda on the How question, otherwise all you are doing is projecting your own (“unpatriotic”, for all we know) opinions…

      • Lifelogic
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:04 am | Permalink

        The will of the people is to be an independent nation again. One that makes its own laws through its own democracy and is again in charge of its destiny.

        • jerry
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

          @LL; Not according to the question of the 2016 referenda, it merely asked if the UK should leave the European Union, indeed options for Brexit covered many ideas, even what became known as the Norway Option, even your idea of being a Greater Switzerland – but just how independent of the EU are the Swiss, not very…

          • NickC
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

            Jerry, Exactly, we voted to Leave. So no control over the UK is acceptable.

          • Lifelogic.
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 5:08 am | Permalink

            No the Swiss have the misfortune to be surrounded by the EU. The UK is in a far better position far larger and surrounded only by sea. Alas we we high tax, anti business, pro EU, wasteful, socialist government and have had for many years.

          • jerry
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

            @NickC; We voted to leave the European Union, that is all, Norway, nor Switzerland, nor Monaco are not in the European Union…

            @LL; Tell that to those living in NI, post Brexit they will have the EU on two side. Are you suggesting that there should be a border poll in NI?

            As for your rant about what our government is, perhaps you are correct, but that is what the people elected, it’s called living in a democracy…

      • Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:10 am | Permalink

        Jerry,

        Leavers know exactly what they voted for. Don’t try to pretend otherwise.

        Taking Back Control.

        EU can work with us where there are mutual benefits. If not we go to WTO terms.

        • jerry
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

          Peter; “Leavers know exactly what they voted for.”

          Of course they do, any one (or a combination) of those 29 different campaigns. Don’t try to pretend otherwise.

          What we do not know, because no one has been ask3ed, is what the majority opinion is on How we should leave, if you don’t want to actually ask the people then you will have to accept what the majority governing party decide the people want. Trying to project your personal opinions onto the majority does nothing but discredit your cause, giving ammunition to those wishing to find fault with Brexit.

          • NickC
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

            Jerry, The electorate voted on what was on the Referendum ballot paper, not on the different campaigns. That is – Leave, or Remain. Only.

          • Anonymous
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 2:06 am | Permalink

            So why did only 70000 turn up to the march ?

          • jerry
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

            @NickC; Exactly, but it tells us nothing about what the electorate want as an international trade policy in place of our EU membership post Brexit. Stop trying to project your opinions as if they are the majority opinion, if you want to do so you will need to win a second referenda that has specifically asked such a question. Do you even have a first understanding of what democracy is and is not?

            @Anonymous; That’s a bit like asking how many turn up to a UKIP conference. Neither equates to a national referenda on the issue!

      • mancunius
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:49 am | Permalink

        The will of the people is for UK national independence. Any customs union with the EU or remaining adherence to single market rules undermines that national self-government.

        In the 2017 General Election 87% of the electorate voted for one of the two main parties who both insisted in their manifestos that we would leave the EU single market and not have a customs union with the EU.

        It’s an established remainer tactic to say we ‘didn’t know what we were voting for’. We certainly did, and haven’t changed our minds. I do have the strong impression though that some remainers thought they were voting for ‘more of the same’ – but no such thing is on offer in the EU. Its Goldilocks years are over.

        • DaveF
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 4:28 am | Permalink

          or maybe English national independence?

          Don’t worry mancunius we’ll get the boot out the door soon enough

          not only from the EU but the rest of the world is also fed up with our non-stop whinging

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:55 am | Permalink

        Money, laws, borders.
        100% control.
        Anything else is not the will of the people.

      • Edward2
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

        It was explained to us in that Leaflet and in many speeches made by our PM and Chancellor.
        Leaving meant leaving the SM the CU and the ECJ
        Quite simple.
        But I fear our Government will leave us half in.

      • libertarian
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

        Jerry

        You just told us old bean… The will of the people as expressed in the referendum was to leave the EU. Its always been made very clear by both the UK and the EU what this means. Your obsession with what happens AFTER we’ve left is important but isn’t part of that discussion.

        The EU has repeatedly told us that they won’t negotiate fully until we’ve left

      • NickC
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

        Jerry, The will of the people was expressed by their votes in the 2016 Referendum under the conditions set by Parliament. The choice was binary: Leave or Remain. Only. Parliament did not provide a half-in/half-out or variable option. Our decision was to Leave the EU.

        The “How?” question was addressed by the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who stated in the HoC: “If the British people vote to leave, there is only one way to bring that about, namely to trigger article 50 of the treaties and begin the process of exit, and the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away.”

        No possible version of “How?” that trespasses on our decision to Leave can possibly be valid following our democratic vote on the binary decision offered us by Parliament, however much you twist it.

        • jerry
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

          @NickC; The only people trying to twist the result are those like yourself.

          “The “How?” question was addressed by the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who stated [it] in the HoC”

          Indeed, but then Norway is not in the EU, hence why some were putting forward a policy that became known as “The Norway” or “Flexit” Option, it was one of the 29 Leave options legally put before the people in 2016 – how many voted for it, we simply do not know, as you say the sole question was a simple binary one. If you are so convinced that what the people want is your ideal Brexit why be so scared of a second referenda, other than perhaps the sure knowledge you would loose?

          “No possible version of “How?” that trespasses on our decision to Leave can possibly be valid”

          Well that is that then! Forget democracy, what do the people actually want -they must never be asked, not by a second referenda, nor presumably by a manifesto pledge (that goes against your decree) at a general election…

          Fortunately for our democracy even if Mr Cameron’s binary EU Referenda was legally binding on him and the electorate no future government can be held hostage to the polices of a previous government [1] – could this be the real reason why, first Mr Cameron resigned, and then Mrs May held a snap general election, so as not to place the government in a political straight jacket.

          [1] if that is not the case then, for example, the 1979-1990 government would not have been able to privatise, would not have been able to introduce Trade Union reforms, would not have been able to sell off council houses, nor reform the LA Rates system etc.

      • Posted June 28, 2018 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

        Mmm. The word is ”pray”, Jerry. Or is there a subliminal message there?

  3. Nig l
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:39 am | Permalink

    Not just the Media. Greg Clarke and his acolytes seem to very much ‘have their hands in the till’. Once again a senior politician ‘in the pocket of’ big business.

  4. DUNCAN
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    Courtesy? Look where that’s got us, nowhere. It’s time to end with the niceties, pleasantries and public expressions of togetherness and get brutal and honest

    We voted to leave the EU. It’s not happened and it still hasn’t happened.

    It is my belief that my party and its MPs tolerate this PM. Why they tolerate her I have no idea. Maybe they think she’s so weak that she’s malleable and easily manipulated. I hope that’s the case but then politicians are politicians and so tend to take decisions based on political considerations as opposed to doing the right thing

    It’s all getting very, very tiresome

    • Timaction
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

      Indeed. Their intentions are so obvious that it is very tiresome. Legacy politicos have sold us out for over 40 years to their EU project whilst smugly lying and spending our taxes on it. To add insult to injury they then give away £12 billion in more foreign aid and 0.7% of our GDP. At the same time they tell us they will have to raise taxes to pay for the International Health Service and home care for our elderly. How is Mr Hunts charging of health tourists doing after 8 years? No evidence when we visit our Doctors or A&E.
      Brexit has confirmwd many of our fears that MP’s, Parliament, civil servants and the Lords are not fit for purpose. Time for major reform of our voting system, legislator and clearing of the swamp!!

      • Anonymous
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:19 am | Permalink

        “Brexit has confirmwd many of our fears that MP’s, Parliament, civil servants and the Lords are not fit for purpose.”

        The one good thing to have come out of the referendum.

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

        Timaction

        Amen to all that…nicely put sir!

  5. James Wallace-Dunlop
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    Would interim EFTA, or even EEA, membership not be preferable to the Transition on offer? We would get
    – Ability to strike and implement free trade deals (or even opt for unilateral opening)
    – Control of our fisheries
    – No ECJ jurisdiction (the efta court is preferable to the ECJ)

    • Ian wragg
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      The EFTA court shadows the ECJ and we would have to accept FoM financial contribution.
      This would become the final destination.
      Not what we voted for.
      If Nick Timothy is to be believed we are now heading for free movement as well as Single Market for goods.
      May really must go.

      • John O'Leary
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

        Nick Timothy and to a lesser extent our host are responsible for the mess we currently find ourselves in with the threat of a catastrophic no-deal Brexit looming large. Thank god she is no longer listening to that ignoramus.

        The EFTA court’s job is to adjudicate on that part of the EU acquis that has relevance to the EEA agreement. That is about 25% of the total acquis and would have relieved us any need to be involved in the Common Agriculture Policy, Common Fisheries Policy, Common External Tariff and Common Commercial Policy. FoM is part of the EEA agreement but is mitigated by Article 112 providing a UNILATERALLY invocable safeguard measure which can be used to secure a permanently applicable protocol as Liechtenstein have already done. Unlike the CJEU the EFTA court is an arbitration service designed to resolve disputes and is not binding on the member states.

        If you think TM, no matter who she is advised by, will get a better deal than that then you are barking at the moon. We will most probably end up with a far inferior deal and still tied to the CAP, CFP and ECJ.

        • NickC
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

          John O’Leary, The WTO deal is not only the best deal by far, it is the only deal that complies with our decision to Leave. Signing the EEA agreement puts us back under the control of the EU, even if it is “only” 25% of their laws. That is not Leave however you twist it.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 5:06 am | Permalink

          If you think the EU would allow us to stay in the EEA knowing that we intend to abuse Article 112 to control freedom of movement from the rest of the EU then you are barking at the moon. Moreover we would not even get as far as being readmitted to EFTA under its present Vaduz Convention, rather than the original Stockholm Convention, unless we committed to freedom of movement of persons.

          But you have been told all this before, not least in a comment which started:

          “John O’Leary, you’ve already been told that is wrong, weeks ago, so why do you nonetheless repeat it now?”

          on November 1st 2017, here:

          http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/10/31/the-banks-negative-view-of-brexit/#comments

      • Helen Smith
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

        There won’t be FOM because Labour would vote against it, a sure fire vote winner!

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

      And continued uncontrolled and unlimited immigration from the EEA countries, but no solution to the largely fabricated ‘problem’ of the Irish border which is said to be the crucial blockage to negotiations …

      How often does it has to be pointed out that the EFTA countries are not in any kind of customs union with the EU countries, and that the Irish government long ago rejected out of hand even a so-called “light touch” border like that between Norway (EFTA) and Sweden (EU)?

      https://news.sky.com/video/is-the-norway-sweden-border-a-solution-for-ireland-11141058

      “Is the Norway-Sweden border a solution for Ireland?”

      Would something like this be good enough for the Irish government?

      Nope, from 03:12 in, they reject:

      “anything that would imply a border on the island of Ireland”.

    • Richard1
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

      Yes either would be better. EFTA for 3 years while we sort out a sensible long term arrangement seems by far the most sensible course. The idea the govt might walk away now is fanciful. A Swiss style EFTA at least for the interim period would be far better than what is now likely to be on offer. Dan Hannan has been right on this.

  6. Tabulazero
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    Brexit is now a sideshow for the EU. The UK will get the Brexit it craves but it will be one designed by the EU.

    Airbus, Nissan or Siemens will not leave immediately but will curtail investment and over the next 10 to 15 years the effects will be felt.

    Brexit is a once in a lifetime opportunity for France, the Netherlands or Germany to grab a large share of the UK’s industrial base and service industry. Why would they pass on it ?

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

      Nissan, the government’s poster child of “it won’t be a problem” have halted investment plans in the UK until they know the outcome.

    • Edward2
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

      Did you blame the EU when loads of companies in the UK and Europe transferred production to China over the last 20 years?

    • libertarian
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

      Tabulazero

      Airbus investment in the UK amounts to getting taxpayer subsidies of £350 million… What investment

      Statement on Seimens website

      Siemens to invest £27m in new UK 3D printing factory ( March 2018 )

      Peter Parsons

      Statement by Nissan

      Nissan is cutting hundreds of jobs at its factory in Sunderland as demand for diesel cars continues to dry up.

      The Sunderland plant, which builds the Qashqai and Juke SUVs, will continue to build Nissan cars post-Brexit – and the company insisted that the UK’s exit from the European Union had nothing to do with the decision – but falling demand in the wake of numerous diesel controversies in recent years and months has left the Japanese company with no choice but to cut jobs.

      This is once again part of the major F*** Up the Conservative Govt has made over the diesel car fiasco

      Its laughable how the remainiacs have left all common sense behind and attribute every up and down of the normal business cycle as due to Brexit. Its why they aren’t taken seriously.

      • Peter Parsons
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

        You might want to listen to yesterday’s interview with the CEO.

        • libertarian
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

          Peter Parsons

          Why? I listened to the CEO of Goldmans Sachs who said he was moving to Frankfurt then promptly built his new HQ in London.

          You might want to stop being naive

          • Edward2
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 7:42 am | Permalink

            And good job we didn’t listen to the CBI leaders years ago who wanted us to join the Euro.
            Sadly we did listen to them on the ERM and suffered the dreadful consequences.

          • Peter Parsons
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

            They didn’t “promptly” build anything. Their HQ decision was taken and committed to in 2014, 2 years before the EU referendum happened.

            Attempting to use a decision taken in 2014 as a validation of Brexit is naive IMO.

          • libertarian
            Posted June 30, 2018 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

            Peter

            Construction has only just started on GS building. I’m not using the decision to validate Brexit , are you simple? I told you not to believe what CEO’s of big corporates spout in public.

            Care to explain why the banks haven’t all moved to Frankfurt as the Remain camp assured us they would?

    • NickC
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

      Tabulazero, Why do you portray the UK as a supplicant? What is so unique about the UK, in your estimation, that makes us unable to govern ourselves? Why do you suppose that the UK cannot prosper as an independent country?

      Your statements above are merely your guesses based on your view of our total inadequacy without the EU governing us. But your view doesn’t make a lot of sense: it ignores history; and it ignores comparable countries in the rest of the world.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

        It does not ignore the fact that it is the UK that is leaving. Brexit will happen no matter what and it will be the UK and not the EU which will bear the brunt of the consequences.

  7. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    So we’re generous in providing money we DON’T OWE,?? Then why are we paying it? Its not as though we have money to throw away. Hammond is destroying our economy while at the same time handing money out for foreign aid like sweeties and expecting us to give him more tax. Your government really has lost the plot John. The recent announcements from Mrs May and her cabinet over taxes, cars and wood burners etc are a sure fire way of making her government even more unpopular if that were possible. She gets worse as time goes on if that were possible. Why could the EU be interested in debating Brexit when they know she is falling over herself to grant them their every demand?

  8. Richard1
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    Of course corporate executives should be able to say what they think is in the best interest of their businesses, and I can understand a business which depends on sending parts and products to and fro across the channel being concerned at a potential change in arrangements. I would be in their shoes. It would of course have been better had Mrs May spelled out from the beginning 1) the UK’s negotiating objectives with the EU and 2) what the WTO fall-back option would have meant in practice should these negotiating objectives not have been achieved, and then gone ahead and made arrangements for WTO in case the EU behaved as it turns out they have done (not surprisingly).

    What is very odd is that corporate executives who spend much of their time negotiating deals of one sort or another think that it is a good negotiating ploy to announce ahead of a negotiation that you will accept whatever the other side offers. Even the Labour MPs with their trade union backgrounds and contacts should be able to appreciate this point!

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

      She did, on January 17th 2017 in her Lancaster House speech:

      https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

      “The government’s negotiating objectives for exiting the EU”

      Today on the BBC the Tory MP Graham Brady, chairman of the 1922 Committee, said that the government should be “cleaving to the principles that were set out in that speech”, and I would generally agree with him on that.

      So here are snippets of what she said about the EU Single Market, easily found and checked by searching for the word “single”:

      “What I am proposing cannot mean membership of the single market.”

      “… membership means accepting the ‘4 freedoms’ of goods, capital, services and people. And being out of the EU but a member of the single market would mean complying with the EU’s rules and regulations … without having a vote on what those rules and regulations are …”

      And “accepting a role for the European Court of Justice that would see it still having direct legal authority in our country”.

      “It would to all intents and purposes mean not leaving the EU at all.”

      “… that is why both sides in the referendum campaign made it clear that a vote to leave the EU would be a vote to leave the single market.”

      “So we do not seek membership of the single market.”

      Similarly here are the core principles that she annunciated with respect to the EU Customs Union:

      “I do not want Britain to be part of the Common Commercial Policy and I do not want us to be bound by the Common External Tariff. These are the elements of the Customs Union that prevent us from striking our own comprehensive trade agreements with other countries.”

      And she repeated this only yesterday in Prime Minister’s Questions:

      https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-06-27/debates/159B11F7-2F5A-4004-AD72-5AA5DBC0F732/Engagements#contribution-A37FCCE8-3437-46F2-827E-57DBEDDBD77A

      “We will be leaving the single market and the customs union so that we can do exactly that—have an independent trade policy and negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of the world.”

      So why doesn’t she demand the resignations of pro-EU ministers like Greg Clark who very clearly do not accept that position? All they do is keep muddying the waters and weakening the government’s negotiating position.

  9. hans christian ivers
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    John,

    Interesting perspective on the summit and the potential perspective.

    If, the remainers again keep coming up with the same arguments, your fake news about the border and other issues do not seem to change either. All rather sad.

    • stred
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:59 am | Permalink

      https://brexitcentral.com/eu-cynically-exploiting-irish-border-keep-britain-under-the-thumb/

      There was an excellent article explaining the deliberately concocted problems over the NI/Eire border, in which it was reported that Mr Vardakar cancelled the high- tech solution, which was being worked on by Irish customs and would have been ready by the time the UK leaves in 2019. Perhaps it is explicable that this action, which would leave Eire at a great disadvantage if no deal were to be agreed on zero tariffs and having to put conventional border posts on their side, while the UK used cameras and did not. The explanation may be that the Commission did not wish to make the border too easy and planned to raise the issue as a way to force the UK into a customs union with EU controls and law, as at present.

      What is inexplicable, unless there is high- level collaboration with Remainers in government and the Kit-Kat plotters, is that the UK government has also cancelled plans for the electronic monitoring of customs at UK ports. Surely, to do so and deliberately leave the UK with no walk away option amounts to working for a foreign power against their own nation. Perhaps some consider their nation to be the EU.

      Could some honest MPs please interview some members of the civil service who are loyal to the UK and find out what is going on? Prosecution for treachery should follow, when and if we are able to leave in reality.

    • libertarian
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

      hans

      unnecessarily rude

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

        you should know what it looks like

        • libertarian
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

          hans

          I do, you are.

          Much love x

    • NickC
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

      Hans, JR is only saying what every independent nation is entitled to do. If Remains like you want to be sad about that reality, who am I to stop you?

  10. agricola
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    Absolutely agree, I will add however that I consider it most important that on return a detailed report is given to the H o C on exactly what the EU reaction is. We the voting public deserve to know exactly where we stand with the EU after this summit and what our future action will be. I think a preliminary opening to Mrs may’s speech to them should be that we have had enough of Galileo exclusion, airbus wings, security exclusion, don’t make me laugh, and Irish border nonsense. It is EU make up your mind time, do you want unrestricted free trade on goods and services plus all the other areas where cooperation makes sense or do you wish a clean break in March next year with no further payment by the UK.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

      The EU is under no obligation to solve the UK’s problems or make Brexit a success.

      The EU will hold the UK liable for the settlement of the net liabilities it incurred as part of its membership and is perfectly happy to revert to WTO terms if the UK chooses to do so.

      The EU will however not permit the UK to have its cake and eat it at its expense. The UK will not be better out of the Single-Market than in. It will therefore cease to enjoy many of the privileges that comes with membership.

      The EU has been repeating this message for the past two years. What is so hard to understand ?

      • NickC
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

        Tabulazero, We don’t want the EU to “solve the UK’s problems”. I thought the vote to Leave made that clear?

        The Institute of Chartered Accountants’ (ICAEW) report of June 2017 concluded that the net exit charge for the UK would be a payment to the EU of either £5 billion or £15 billion or £30bn, depending on assumptions.

        However Futurus, the Think-Tank, points out that the ICAEW high scenerio is not applicable because we will be paying normal contributions during the non-transition transition (so not counted in the settlement). In either of the low or central scenerios, Futurus estimates that the EU owes the UK about £5bn due to different assumptions.

        Finally the EU has no control over us after we Leave, especially in our relations with other countries. So there is no question of the EU “not permitting”.

        • Tabulazero
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

          It would be true if the UK was ready to accept to trade on WTO terms. Do you think the current government is heading that way ?

          No.

        • stred
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 8:41 am | Permalink

          The mysterious missing billions in the civil service/May bribe may be the amount the EU is planning off balance sheet ‘security’. This would include the plan to build a port in SE africa and new versions of the ‘groundnut scheme’. To get an idea of how previous attempts to make Africa a pleasant place to live in pick up a copy of Tim Butcher’s book Blood River about the Congo, where he found that DFID millions for rebuilding the main road around the rapids had disappeared along with the rebuilding. Alternatively, they could stop operating a ferry service and bribe the Tunisians to operate a return airline service. But they won’t, because of the EU rights court.

  11. Andy
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Indeed, Airbus has no wish to sell planes without wings. But it has made clear that if your Brexit is too bureaucratic it will make those wings elsewhere.

    No manufacturer wants to move but Brexit is so damaging to business they may have no choice. Moving production of wings or a new car model to another country is expensive but the anti-business Tories may leave business with no choice.

    Airbus knows its business better than you do. Likewise BMW. And John Lewis. And Nissan. And all the other companies which actually import stuff.

    They often rely on hundreds of lorries a day going in each direction going smoothly across the Channel. Even a 2 minute delay to these will have hugely negative consequences for their businesses. And that willl affect workers and consumers.

    Honda has done work to estimate the cost of your Brexit. It has assumed that post Brexit EU imports will take as much time and require as much cost and bureaucracy as imports from the US. To cope with the disruption to its just-in-time manufacturing Honda would have to build the biggest building on Earth. That is the model you are proposing.

    The sad truth is that most Tory MPs – including I suspect virtually all the Brexiteers – had not even heard of the customs union until well after the referendum. They did not know what they were voting for. Embarrassing.

    • Pud
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

      In my pre-referendum discussions, it was Remainers who didn’t understand the customs union. They had a vague feeling that the single-market was good, but most were surprised to hear that the customs union a) existed and b) meant that the UK had to apply standard EU tariffs to non-EU produce and that these tariffs usually existed to protect EU suppliers. For example, the UK produces no oranges so ideally would source them from any country but the EU insists on tariffs to protect the Spanish orange growers. Another example – coffee beans have no EU tariff but roasted coffee does, which allows Germany, who doesn’t grow a bean, to make a fortune from coffee.

      • Helen Smith
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

        Pretty sure they didn’t know all the tariff money collected is then sent to Brussels.

    • Richard1
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

      I saw the FTs claim on Honda also. What is difficult to understand is that there is no delay on products coming in from outside the EU – or parts in global supply chains – but Honda fears delays of up to 9 days while physical inspections are carried out at the channel ports. I agree the Govt could and should have been much clearer in explaining how this will not in any circs happen – at least on the U.K. side – but this scare mongering seems absurd.

      Stand back from it for a moment – the argument is that unless you are part of a regional governmental structure, with common regs, taxes, unrestricted immigration etc, you can’t run a just in time supply chain. It is quite absurd.

      • Andy
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

        Except that we are not part of a regional government structure, immigration is not unrestricted and business and incomes taxes are for the national government to set.

        What we share with the EU is regulation – and it is that shared regulation (which Brexiteers loathe) which makes trade seamless. The products meet the same minimum standards so they can be traded barrier free.

        This is not the case with the US where standards are lower. American manufacturers and producers have to make separate products for the EU to meet our higher standards.

        This will be most evident in food. Dr Fox thinks Brexit means he can flood the UK with Frankenstein foods from America – and that voters will like it. Let’s see how that works out for him.

        Sure some biologically or chemically changed unhealthy American tat may be cheaper but then Americans tend to be less healthy and to die younger – so that’s your trade off.

        And, of course, because our country will be packed full of low standard US food products a hard border will be needed with Ireland and checks will be needed at other ports so the EU can keep substandard goods out.

        • Edward2
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

          Standards are not higher or lower just different.
          Businesses have to meet the requirements of all the nations that sell into.
          They do this already
          Some European nations have different standards to others.
          Electrical systems and plumbing systems for example.
          And your claim American standards are low is ridiculous.
          You plainly have never tried to sell into their markets.

        • NickC
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

          Andy, So you’re admitting that the EU will install a hard border in Eire? Regulation isn’t “shared” it’s imposed by a centralist corrupt technocracy. And EU food standards are pretty low: worse infection in chickens than in the USA; infected eggs; dire animal welfare; horse meat in French “corned beef”; and so on.

        • libertarian
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          You talk complete drivel

          Some US standards are FAR higher than the EU… Why do you think they jailed VW executives for breaking them? EU manufacturers have to make seperate products to export to the USA.. At last Andy discovers international business

          Most products made in advanced countries in the world meet the same minimum standards, 1) Because there are more than 50 GLOBAL standards institutes, 2) It makes sense to make products you can sell to 195 countries.

          On the subject of food you like a bit of Horse meat lasagne do you Andy, salmonella in your chicken and a bit of forced fed goose, to make their liver explode . Good wholesome EU fayre

        • Richard1
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

          Well that’s full of silly myths. Food standards are perfectly acceptable in countries like Canada australia etc and although outside the major cities there isn’t much to recommend US cuisine it is an EU myth that it’s unsafe. I’ve eaten lots of it myself with no ill effects. Sensible trade deals are based on mutual recognition and letting the consumer choose, not micro-dictation by jobsworths. Anyone can see that the direction of travel in the EU is to common govt. Look at the current discussions over the budget. Being out of the euro will be no hiding place.

          You have failed to answer the point as to how just in time supply chains work across borders where there is no customs union nor single market equivalent.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 5:41 am | Permalink

          At present the EU trusts the UK authorities to keep those nasty low standard US products, such as that horrible “chlorinated chicken” with lower rates of bacterial infection than our lovely healthy EU chicken, out of the UK.

          The UK has passed certain domestic laws, EU Single Market laws, which prohibit the importation into the UK of any goods which the EU would regard as contraband; and the EU trusts that the UK will be sufficiently rigorous in the enforcement of those laws that it is now deemed unnecessary to intercept and check goods as they cross the land border into the Irish Republic.

          So on what reasonable grounds would the EU refuse to continue to trust the UK to properly enforce its domestic laws if there were new laws to prevent goods which the EU regards as unacceptable being exported from the UK to the Republic across that border?

          That is the alternative legal and practical model which keeps the border between Liechtenstein and Switzerland completely open without regulatory alignment between the two territories:

          http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/05/17/the-business-of-england/#comment-935654

          and there is no reason why it should not work just as well at the land border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic.

          • Andy
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 6:33 am | Permalink

            Gosh – in your own minds you’ve all become trade experts. Except of course the actual trade experts, big business, keep pointing out that you’re wrong. But as Victor Meldrew proved angry pensioners always know best …..

            It is a fact that American standards are overwhelmingly lower. The US puts profits before people. In the EU it is the other way around. Perhaps they have better quality semi-automatic rifles over there but I’d rather they kept them there.

            The direction of the EU is not to become a central government. Seriously if you genuinely think France or Denmark or Portugal want to be run by Brussels then you are just deluded. They are just all grown up enough to understand that shared rules and regulations facilitate trade.

            Incidentally these rules are not imposed by Brussels – we agree to them. The very few which are approved by majority to which the UK has objected tend to be things to do with how filthy our air or water is. Obviously the Tories don’t care about this stuff – they’re happy for poor people to to be polluted to death.

            As for ‘why won’t the EU just trust us after Brexit.’ Well what happens when someone breaks that trust? As of now if we break the shared rules the EU or any company or individual who has been wronged has recourse to the ECJ – as the arbiter. And vice versa. That’s a red line for you so you’ve ruled this option out. Dumb, isn’t it?

            Oh and the notion that the ECJ always rules against us is also fake. In more than 20 years up until the end of 2017 the UK had only been taken to the ECJ 83 times and we won most of those. The ones we lost largely concerned environmental breaches – including a ruling about waste water. You have literally voted to take back control of our sewage. Go you.

          • Edward2
            Posted June 30, 2018 at 9:26 am | Permalink

            Complete nonsense.
            Reads like a letter to a Student Newspaper
            Profits before people…nasty America…lovely EU….horrible old people…blah blah.

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted June 30, 2018 at 11:06 am | Permalink

            Silly, ignorant boy. From the start the project has been directed towards the establishment of a pan-European federation, go and read the 1950 Schuman Declaration. And while it started out with each member state having the power of veto over almost all legal acts that changed long ago so that now there are few cases were the UK or another country can veto a proposal. And as for big business being trade experts, surely you must realise that big business will always want to protect its vested interests and if it has got itself nicely set up to operate with one system it won’t want to see that disrupted for no obvious benefit to itself.

          • libertarian
            Posted June 30, 2018 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

            Andy

            Thats because some of us actually trade and do so internationally. You on the other hand pretend to have a business with a 7 figure profit.

            US standards are lower are they? You might want to read what the EUROPEAN UNION said about how harmonised most standards and regulations are when they were trying to negotiate TTIP

            Dear oh dear , I dont think you are who you say you are, i think your a lefty uni student

    • Edward2
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

      If you actually read what the Airbus Chairman said you realise he never said he wants to get wings made in China or elsewhere.
      That’s a MSM spin on the story.
      He asked for urgency in settling a deal and clarity of what is propsed.
      The UK is offering free trade.
      But the EU wants to play up.

    • Stred
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

      Even a two minute delay for lorries would have hugely negative consequences!!!

      The M25 must be bringing manufacturing to a halt.
      This bloke claims to run a business.

    • libertarian
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      Which country are they moving wing production to & why is it easier from there?

      You keep on trotting out this cobblers about lorry delays at ports. Its a myth, thats NOT how imports/exports happen. You’ve been told this so many times

      From Honda website

      Honda has promised to keep making and selling cars in its Swindon factory despite the raft of uncertainties facing the economy and a hammering of profits at the plant.

      The Japanese car giant has sounded a bullish outlook on its future in the country despite seeing profits in its UK subsidiary fall 21pc for the year to March 31, partly down to the recent slump in sales

      48% of all components at Honda UK are sourced from British companies this is up from 31% in 2011 and Honda expect to have more than 50% locally sourced

      • acorn
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

        The snag is the 48% of components that are UK sourced, have a large import component in themselves. SMMT (?) reckons that brings down the “pure” UK sourced value added for such components, to 25%.

        Opel-Vauxhall (PSA Group), have a similar problem. This falls foul of EU’s FTA product import rule; 60% of the price must be generated in the “country of origin”. You can get around these rules if you can prove one or more of three “Cumulation” rules apply.

        I am sure that libby, as this sites “international business man”, can explain the detail for you. 😉

        • libertarian
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

          acorn

          I’m sure we can….
          You will have to provide evidence for your post as SMMT website doesn’t back you up

          Meanwhile The Automotive Council UK says your wrong

          Cars manufactured in Britain are becoming more British, according to a new Automotive Council study released today ( 2017). The report, Growing the Automotive Supply Chain – Local Vehicle Content Analysis, shows that 44% of all components used by UK car makers now come from domestic suppliers, compared with 41% in 2015 when the study was last carried out.

          The key findings of the report are:

          The amount of locally sourced parts is a key measure of success for the UK automotive industry as the majority of the sector’s value-added is created in the upstream supply chain.
          In value terms, the parts sourced by UK car manufacturers from UK first-tier suppliers has increased from 36% in 2011, to 44% in 2017.
          British engine manufacturing rises again in May, up 5.1% to 242,391 units.
          18.7% growth in production for export offsets -12.4% decline in domestic demand.
          Six in 10 UK-built engines now shipped to global car plants, with 779,809 exported year-to-date.

          key point is ‘Sourced from local tier 1 suppliers”

          Any further news on the French South Koreans shipyards ?

          • acorn
            Posted July 7, 2018 at 6:52 am | Permalink

            “That real figure in the UK is really more like 25% because whilst we buy just under half our components from a UK supplier they in turn buy it from a range of suppliers in the UK and beyond so the actual figure is more like 25%.

            “If the target is 55-60% it shows you the distance we would have to go.”

            Asked why the government is saying it is more like 44%, Mr Hawes, the chief of the Society of Motor Manufacturers, replied: “The UK automotive industry on average buys about 44% of its parts from a UK supplier but that’s not what rules of origin is.

            “You have to look at something called ‘originating content’. What proportion of the content comes from the UK in our instance. That is more like 20-25%”.

    • getahead
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

      Sorry that you are embarrassed, Andy.

    • NickC
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

      Andy, VoteLeave had regaining control of our own trade policy as number two in its priority list: impossible unless we leave the customs union. There was (and is) no requirement to discuss EU policies in the way you define them now. Did you know before you voted, as I did, that we couldn’t set our own trade policy whilst controlled by the EU?

      Many of the policies of the EU were debated explicitly, and some implicitly. Have you even read Lisbon? There are pages and pages of particular policies which you clearly know nothing about. Those policies are not stand-alone so it is absurd to arbitrarily extract only parts of the treaties. Moreover there was no pick’n’mix option on the ballot paper: it was a binary decision, on balance, to accept the treaties as they stood or reject them in their entirety.

  12. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Such a great quote from yesterday’s Wall Street Journal:
    “The British political class increasingly resembles a British tourist asking a foreigner for directions: Unable to make itself understood, it simply shouts louder. Complaints about EU “theologians” only reveal a worrying lack of understanding of the realities of an organization of which the U.K. has been a member for 43 years. If Britain is to avoid getting hopelessly lost, it had better start learning the language.”

    • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:00 am | Permalink

      P.S. what is meant here is that the EU will always protect its singel market, which includes the four freedoms and oversight by the EJC as common referee. No way it can ever compromise on that. Those are the limits of a rule-based contstruct like the EU.

      • Edward2
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:38 am | Permalink

        Which is why we need to leave the EU.
        The EU will be much happier without the UK as a member.
        It can carry on as it wishes, probably to becoming the United States of Europe.

      • Ian wragg
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

        Thanks for the translation Peter.
        We British are so thick and stupid
        Germany out of the football
        Merkel under notice and Italy collapsing in chaos.
        Dream on Sherlock.

        • hans christian ivers
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

          Ian,

          What exactly has changed in Italy in the last few weeks, that it ahs suddenly turned into a CHAOS or was that the case before as well?

          • getahead
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

            No Hans, everything is fine in Italy. Except for the people who live there.

          • NickC
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

            Hans, Disobeying their lords and masters in the EU?

      • Know-Dice
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:51 am | Permalink

        PvL, most who contribute on this blog understand this.

        The problem as you correctly point out is our elected representatives on both sides of the Chamber and also the unelected House of Lords don’t.

        And congratulations on renewing your contract with the Netherlands branch of the EU propaganda department 🙂

      • Brian Tomkinson
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

        As you say the EU is a protectionist club. Not sure adopting a hostile attitude to a country with whom it has a trade surplus of £80bn is a wise way to “protect its single market”.

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

          @Brian Tomkinson: Trade there will always be.
          Throwing away our rule book (the treaties) for less than half a percent of European GDP? Doesn’t seem wise to me.

        • getahead
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

          Brian,
          Except when Theresa May is its prime minister.
          Peter,
          Rubbish as usual.

      • Dave Andrews
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

        Isn’t it ironic that one of the four freedoms – movement of people, is now under threat in the EU? We could find that this issue, pivotal in the Leave vote, on which David Cameron failed to get even a modest concession, ends up being abandoned by the EU anyway. We may find out that the Irish border becomes more open than the borders between EU states after we left.
        If only the referendum vote had been delayed by say 3 years, the result could have been to remain, because free movement of people had been abandoned through the populist uprising.
        On the other hand, with the turmoil that’s going on in the EU, we might still have preferred to leave anyway.

        • Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

          The “free movement of people” was adopted extremely early and comprehensively by the UK. Other countries too much longer (as was allowed under the rules) and had limitations. What is happening now is that those limitations are being standardized. It is ironic that the country with the clumsiest implementation of the mobility freedom is also the country that wants to leave. My guess is that some people saw the end of the cheap labour mine coming when Germany opened for workers from Poland and Romania and is now looking for imports of labour from further away. Within the EU that would be difficult but once out, there are no external constraints on imposing labour from, eg Bangla Desh, Ukraine or Nigeria. Maybe that is not quite what the folks in Peterborough expected.

          • Anonymous
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

            Rien Huizer – Not many ordinary people in Britain wanted uncontrolled EU migration. They were always miffed about it though they managed to rub along as the English always do with migrants (the Scots, Welsh and Irish are not so friendly to outsiders settling in their parts.)

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

          @Dave Andrews: If your politicians had understood a bit more about the EU, they would e.g. have limited immigration in the way that Belgium did, simply appying the possibilities and tools in that rule book. You might also have had a blue, purple or green passport, in the same way that Croatia has a almost black passport.

          • Sir Joe Soap
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

            Indeed.
            The politicians here never really understood what the people wanted.
            The difference is that now the people have told them, and they still by and large pretend not to understand.

            We should probably have remained in EFTA from Day 1, had we known that the trading arrangement between 9 countries would turn into a nation of 27, with its own army, currency etc etc.

            The 1975 vote WOULD have been different had today’s situation been known and made clear then. 100% guaranteed.

          • NickC
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

            PvL, The waiver was time limited, and we were unable control immigration as we saw fit.

      • Alison
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:24 am | Permalink

        Peter, and also Hans Christian: strip away the veneer and there are big challenges to (1) freedom of movement within the Schengen area, in particular at the moment between Germany and Austria – concrete demands for policed border – and (2) the euro zone, with Italy questioning its euro zone membership. Mrs Merkel did us all a big favour when she allowed all those migrants into Germany: she angered many Germans straight off, and as time passes, more and more Germans are more than angered. Migrants try to come to the EU because they know that once in, they can move freely between EU countries with or without a visa, ie to Germany, Sweden, the UK … Remove that freedom of movement, and I bet most would-be migrants would think otherwise. Of course, the real root of the migrant problem (excepting the Middle East) lies in the poverty, weak economies, corruption in too many African countries. Here again the EU does not help at all, with the higher tariffs it imposes on non-EU countries’ outputs.

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

          @Alison: Consider that Africa’s population may grow by more than 200% by 2050, and you’ll see (irrespective of Schengen) that the only way could be to make it sufficiently attractive to stay in Africa. The EU is already the largest aid-donor and is focussing on addressing the problems together with African countries. It is not only about tariffs, although lowering tariffs without hurting the EU agro sector too much will have a role to play.
          The euro will improve, don’t worry on our behalf, you have your pound.

          • Sir Joe Soap
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

            A role to play!!!!

            Enabling third world countries to sell their product into the EU and provide them with enough to feed themselves, regardless of your farmers’ BMWs and Airbus flights… has a “role to play”… wow how magnanimous of you! Those African farmers will be so pleased!

            Why not do it then?

          • NickC
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

            PvL, Aid is not the answer, jobs are. The EU destroys jobs in Africa.

          • David Price
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 5:32 am | Permalink

            When the migrant crisis started the UK position was that local aid and support was preferable to accepting migrants into southern Europe. Merkel/your betters decided otherwise and that’s worked out well for you citizens.

            According to the OECD 2017 statistics on regional aid you are incorrect, the largest ODA donor to Africa was the USA providing 18% of total with EU institutions second at 12%. The UK alone was fourth at 8% of the total and you will have to subtract the UK contribution from your claims of EU aid in future.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

        A certain German Interior Minister doesn’t seem to agree with you. Freedom for refugees to move into Bavaria, Germany? Let’s see.
        The rules-based system which allowed bail-outs for Greece…. clearly rules are there to be changed, so Let’s see.
        It’d also be nice to see a signed set of accounts for your rules-based system-or doesn’t internal accountability need to happen within this particular rules-based system?

        • Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

          Refugees (or rather migrants, very few genuine refugees among the undocumented arrivals these days) do not benefit from the four freedoms until they have settled status. The “refugees” coming to the UK via Calais for instance, are neither refugees nor interested in refuge. They have been recruited by people smuggling networks with roots in the UK as well as in Africa to come and join the large informal labourforce in the UK. Courtesy of the most basic defense against illegal immigration: ID and residents’ registers that are lacking in the UK.

          • Sir Joe Soap
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

            I am speaking of refugees or other migrants moving between Continental European States, once they have registered in the first state. You either have Freedom of Movement between EU States in your “rules based system” for registered folk, or you don’t. To start sorting and selecting categories of people who do and don’t qualify for free movement goes against the rules in the rules-based system, and is what Mr Cameron attempted to do 3 years ago, I think. (His attempt failed).

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

          @Sir Joe Soap: You prove indeed a lack of understanding, as this German Interior Minister is all in favor of the four freedoms. This issue about migration is quite separate.

          • Sir Joe Soap
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

            So Freedom is Movement is fine for whom? Why do you have totally open borders between for example Belgium and the Netherlands if you actually want to stop migrants moving between them? What do you expect them to do at the border, call the local police and report that they’ve just crossed an EU border? Does this also apply to tourists from USA and Japan or just those “nasty migrants??

            Your rules-based system is nonsense and is breaking down.

      • Timaction
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:37 am | Permalink

        You mean unelected dictatorship Mr EU!

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

          @Timaction:
          More than half of your parliament (1441 parliamentarians) consists of unelected members.
          All of the European Parliament is (directly) elected.
          The most powerfull EU institution (European Council) consists of heads of democratic governments.
          Even our Mr. Humphrey ( i.e. Mr Juncker, president of our civil service) was elected!
          Collective rule-making by 28 (soon 27) countries is not the same as a dictatorship, but as I had already quoted the Wall Street Journal, – UK politicians don’t understand the EU.

          • Edward2
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

            I can’t remember ever voting for any EU Council or Commission members.
            Which is a problem because they are the ones with the real power in the EU.

          • Edward2
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

            It is a very odd voting system 28 with votes but only 9 pay in.
            The rest ie the majority only take money out.

          • Anonymous
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

            “You have one unelected executive – here, have another.”

          • Timaction
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

            Very selective Mr EU. You are deliberately disingenuous. Mrs Merkle and Mr Macron conspire with the 5 Presidents to make the laws, policy and directives that are rubber stamped by a puppet parliament. Elected my foot!!

          • NickC
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

            PvL, The HoL is only a revising chamber with little power and under the control of the HoC, as you saw with the EU (Withdrawal) Act.

            The EU parliament may be elected but not by us and has only limited power, unable to originate legislation, or form a government.

            The EC acts mainly by QMV and the UK very rarely got its way, or was unable to halt detrimental EU laws.

            J-P Juncker was not elected by the people.

            EU “democracy” is on the same level as that in the GDR – you can vote but you just get more EU.

          • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

            @Edward2 / Anonymous / Timaction: Not understanding the EU even worse than I thought! Uk prime ministers are EU Council members and, I have to assume, are considered by you to have been democratically elected in the UK. All 28 members pay in (about 1% of their GDP) and some get more than 1% back because they are poorer. The UK isn’t (materially) poor, compared to e.g. Poland. This so-called exucutive is simply our civil service (the EC) and your belief that they hold the power is a few decades out of date. They can only carry out what is in the treaties. You also forget the vetting and approval by the EP, a parliament with more powertools than the UK parliament at its national level. My experience with the British is that they understand a lot about cricket, but not about the EU, probably due to a lack of interest. So celebrate your “independence”!

          • Edward2
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 7:51 am | Permalink

            Only 9 actually pay in more than they take out.
            No citizen actually votes directly for anyone except their MEP and the real power of the EU rests elsewhere.
            28 members all with a vote yet only 9 are net contributors.
            Add a reducing power of veto via Qualified Majority Voting and you have an undemocratic organisation.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:20 am | Permalink

        Hmm, in that case, a no-deal clean break seems like the best option for the UK, and I might have to cancel my order for a new BMW.

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

          @ad Davison:
          One BMW out of some 2,691,423 vehicles (2017) won’t collapse that business, so please go ahead,

          • David Price
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

            But around 11.7% of EU car exports are to the UK are at risk if the EU won’t agree reasonable trade arrangements. That is 22.7b Euro for Germany alone. And then there is the pucker factor – irritate too many potential UK buyers and they will take their custom elsewhere, I already am.

            Having run a Mercedes and a Toyota for over 10 years I feel German cars and so-called quality are vastly over-rated, I would pick the Japanese car every time, especially if built in the UK.

          • Sir Joe Soap
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

            But a couple of million sold to the UK and USA?

          • Edward2
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

            The UK and the USA are the two biggest markets for BMW.

          • Jagman84
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

            Every journey starts with a first step. Ever since your interjections began on this blog, I have consciously avoided buying anything originating in the Netherlands. Your rudeness deserves no less. I know of many who now avoid French and German produce, as do I. It helps in bringing down the deficit as well! A win-win situation!

      • agricola
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:30 am | Permalink

        Then it will cost them £20 billion in transition contributions and at present trade levels £12 Billion per annum in duty until such time as the UK finds alternative sources and the amount the EU sells us declines. A high cost to the EU in support of a failed religion as other members are progressively discovering.

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

          @agricola:
          The EU (e.g. the Netherlands) does very well in selling outide the UK, I’m not too bothered. In world markets we might still continue to outperform the UK.

          • agricola
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

            One can only assume that you do not own vast flower fields, cheese factories or dairies. Those that do in Holland might be a touch more concerned.

          • Alison
            Posted June 30, 2018 at 8:03 am | Permalink

            PvL, Do the Netherlands export figure include what I call the ‘Rotterdam effect’ exports – delivered to Rotterdam, for onward freight? ie goods produced outside the Netherlands?

      • Andy
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:43 am | Permalink

        Correction – the EU will always protect Margaret Thatcher’s single market. It was, after all, the great lady herself who proposed it. Europe was not convinced at first. It is now.

        The irony is that those who claim Mrs Thatcher’s legacy as their own are actually dumping on her greatest achievement.

        • Edward2
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

          If you bother to check Lady Thatcher was very disappointed how the SM was declining into a protectionist bloc cutting out poorer countries with red tape and tariffs.
          Her original idea for a free trade Europe has been ruined.

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

          @Andy: Ironic indeed.

        • NickC
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

          Andy, Margaret Thatcher was an enthusiast for an EU single market based on mutual recognition rather than the EU’s preferred centralised rule based model. As she said (Bruges 1988):

          “Indeed, it is ironic that just when those countries such as the Soviet Union, which have tried to run everything from the centre, are learning that success depends on dispersing power and decisions away from the centre, there are some in the Community who seem to want to move in the opposite direction.

          We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level with a European super-state exercising a new dominance from Brussels.”

      • Richard1
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

        If the EU will not implement comprehensive FTAs unless counter-parties submit to these 4 freedoms, inc subjugation to the ECJ and presumably to any rules the EU makes as it goes along, that must mean the EU will never sign modern mutual recognition type FTAs, neither with the U.K. nor anyone else. That will leave the EU to wither as a protectionist bloc, increasingly unhappy as the pressure cooker of the euro builds up. If I was an EU voter like you I’d be pressuring my Govt to start getting real about a cooperative and open trade policy, starting with the U.K. The age of empire has passed.

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

          @Richard1: Don’t misunderstand! For a comprehensive FTA no four freedoms nor EU nor EEA membership is required! I just watched a Dutch TV clip where Dutch agro exporters (half of the 70,000 have no experience of exporting outside the EU) are being trained to fulfil Canada import requirements and paperwork, all as a preparation for Brexit. With Canada we have an FTA, and the UK’s future FTA will be most like that of Canada (barr the UK deleting its red lines).
          The Netherlands will be prepared.

          • Edward2
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

            Meanwhile trade between Canada and both the UK and your country carries on as it has done for decades.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

          ?

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement

          “The Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) is a free-trade agreement between Canada, the European Union and its member states.”

      • NickC
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

        PvL: “a rule-based contstruct like the EU”??? Hahahaha . . . I’ll put you in for joker of the day, Peter.

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:53 am | Permalink

      A quote tweeted by Nick Gutteridge of the Sun summarises this well:

      “There is not an issue of general distrust towards the UK. That’s not the issue, but the EU is a rules-based system. Why is that? It’s because 28 member states do not trust each other spontaneously; they trust each other because they work on the basis of agreed common rules with common enforcement, common supervision and under a European court that will make sure they all apply the same rules in the same manner. They trust each other because there are remedies available. If you don’t have these remedies, you’re a third country.”

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

        @Peter Parsons: Indeed (I’d seen this quote as well).
        Imagine we’d just work on the basis of trust with the UK, and then a future, Trump-like prime-minister takes over . . . help!
        Better to work on the basis of agreed rules and a common referee.

        • Sir Joe Soap
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

          We don’t seem to be able to come up with a Trump-like PM, sadly. In that respect, at least, you seem to have nothing to worry about.

        • NickC
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

          PvL, Don’t be more silly than usual. Trust is essential in business but only a fool ignores the law. And English law is so well regarded that many agreements throughout the world are based in English law.

        • APL
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

          PvL: “and then a future, Trump-like prime-minister takes over ”

          Peter, stop teasing us. If only.

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted June 30, 2018 at 11:38 am | Permalink

          Trump withdraws from treaties so there would still be no recourse.

          A bit of a red herring really.

          An FTA encompassing trade without payment or freedom of movement is already in place so just needs ratifying to safeguard the EU’S £80 billion trade surplus.

          Without consultants and politicians things really can be that simple.

      • libertarian
        Posted June 29, 2018 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

        Tabulazero

        What are the consequences of leaving exactly?

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      In some ways, that’s correct. Mrs May is the classic hapless British Tourist, but most of the commentators on here can quite easily find their own way without directions. So this attitude might apply to some politicians, and to those frightened of a few large businesses, but by no means to all of us who are quite happy to take a lack of response from the EU as an indication of their disinterest.

      We’d take back our EU-based assets, stop our EU contributions forthwith, keep our 5 eyes and NATO membership and move on. We’d leave our borders open and offer worldwide free trade, whilst simultaneously protecting our strategic interests by e.g farm support. We’d be prepared for a period of difficulty but eventually our industries would grow again on the back of our inventiveness and ability to import and pay for those skills we need and no more.

      We’d know precisely where we were going.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

        @Sir Joe Soap: Not such an unlikely outcome. But not one which your younger generations will appreciate. SO please leave via art 50, and return in a decade (or two) through art. 49, as there will likely be a majority for rejoining the EU.

        • Sir Joe Soap
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

          Youth would not vote for this if they experienced your levels of Eurozone unemployment in the outer Zone.

    • NickC
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

      PvL, If what the WSJ says is true about British lack of understanding of the EU (and it clearly is untrue) then the EU certainly doesn’t understand the British. And of course you don’t have to: you are bigger, more powerful, and more ruthless. And more smug. And btw we have been members for 45 years 6 months, not 43 years.

    • a-tracy
      Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:00 am | Permalink

      I wonder if the WSJ will allow our British politicians that are “Unable to make itself understood, it simply shouts louder.” a right to reply to their accusations.

      It was such a shame that May didn’t give Daniel Hannan a run at Cameron’s seat or Osborne’s, perhaps she could do what Labour do and promote him straight to the Lords (like Adonis or Chakrabarti) because he speaks the EU lingo.

  13. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    I may have been misdirected by the media but I was shocked to read that there is a cabinet summit on 9 July to determine the cabinets final wish list and proposals to the EU.

    This should have been decided before we served our Article 50 notice and then held belligerently with little or no compromise.

    What a complete cock up of a good negotiating position.

    Shocking

    • jerry
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:04 am | Permalink

      @NS; You cant make a final wish list until you have made at least one other (the clue is in the word highlighted), nor can you make such a final list until you know what the other side is offering. Before A50 was triggered it might well have been the UK’s governments -indeed many a Brexiteers- wish to have a close, full & free trade agreement with the EU27 post Brexit, but now in the light of the intransigence of the EU, it might be just to get the hell out on WTO terms!

      • Narrow shoulders
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

        @jerry “in the light of the intransigence of the EU”

        Exactly. If (as Dennis writes below) the Lancaster House speech had been deemed to be our position and we had stuck to it then the EU would either have had to come to us somewhat or we would leave on WTO terms.

        With £80 billion trade deficit that is a strong negotiating position which has been whittled away by fifth columners within parliament and other influencing positions.

      • libertarian
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

        Jerry

        Not sure I agree with that. When I go into a negotiation I normally go knowing what my bottom line/final wish list is.

        • jerry
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 6:01 am | Permalink

          @Walter; Doing what you suggest is not negotiations, it is being block-headed, unwilling to adjust your ‘bottom line – do you work for the EU by any chance?!…

          As I said, only once negotiations have started can you make a final list, indeed how can you make a such a list until you know what the other side might want, if the other side is adamant that you can’t have X there is little point demanding X, if you do not adjust your bottom line you might as well spend the day at your golf club than a boardroom – and of course in some cases breaking of negotiations is the only correct option…

          • libertarian
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

            jerry

            Clearly you’ve never run a business.

            You miss the point entirely that a serious negotiating position is to walk away if the deal doesn’t stack up. If you go into a negotiation without knowing that you will get taken to the cleaners . Of course theres wriggle room

            Have you never bought a house or car Jerry?? If you had you would know that before entering the negotiation you knew what your maximum figure would be. This is so blindingly obvious that I think you’re arguing for the sake of it .

          • jerry
            Posted June 30, 2018 at 11:28 am | Permalink

            @Walter; How many more times, the clue is in the emphasised word I used, neither @NS nor myself were talking about the UK’s initial “wish-list”, or are you seriously suggesting that David Davies has been going empty briefcase to Brussels since 29th March 2017, if not before?!

            The only person who doesn’t understand what negotiating means is you Walter, nor the meaning of the word final by the looks of it, Thus it is blindingly obvious that you’re arguing for the sake of it – ho-hmm…

          • libertarian
            Posted June 30, 2018 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

            Jerry

            Please stop making yourself look stupid

            FINAL means the end game the FINAL result. Of course I know what I want before I start … you’d have to be pretty dumb not too.

          • jerry
            Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:01 am | Permalink

            @Walter; But we are near the end point of the two year A50 negotiating process, it is the end game, thus any current wish-list is the FINAL one. Agreement is needed by late October (perhaps mid November) thus agreement has got to be reached in about six to eight working weeks -unless the politicos and eurocrats forgo their usual long summer recess.

            The only person making themselves look “dumb” is you Walter, once again you argue for the sake of it, jumping in with both feet with your faux high and mighty, “the man that can”, stance that fools no one other than those exposing the arguments you wish to support.

            PS John, your reCAPTCHA has gone back to using unacceptable picture verification, often with fuzzy images, almost certainly against UK accessibility/disability laws. If you try reloading the images to get a image set that can be seen, or actually contains English (UK) definitions of the clue, it blocks your IP number!

          • libertarian
            Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

            Thanks Jerry

            The man too scared to even tell us what he does for a living , telling us that do trade how to negotiate..

            1) You missed the point that the EU said they wouldn’t negotiate anything UNTIL we had left

            2) You go on and on about this all the while completely ignoring the basic point

            Lets try again Jerry

            If you dont know what you want BEFORE you start you will end up with whatever your given. I’d love to go into a negotiation with you, it would be like taking sweets from a baby

          • jerry
            Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:26 am | Permalink

            @Walter; Sorry, you are wrong again old chap, try reading the thread rather than just trolling!

            1/, Incorrect, the EU said they would not negotiate until we had sent our A50 letter. Unless you’re living on Mars you can’t argue that the EU is negotiating with the UK, well at least they are calling it that, yet we have not yet left the EU.

            2/. No, the issue is about the FINAL wish-list, not the first. Lets try again Walter, @NS said, and I quote [again my emphasis]; “I was shocked to read that there is a cabinet summit on 9 July to determine the cabinets final wish list and proposals to the EU.”.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:32 am | Permalink

      But Theresa May gave her Lancaster House speech ten weeks before she triggered Article 50, the main problem is that she has since been manipulated to accept things she rejected in that speech.

      • Andy
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:45 am | Permalink

        By manipulated you mean she has stopped believing in fairies and golden unicorns.

        • libertarian
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          Serious question

          Can you think of any positive benefit of any kind coming from leaving fully the EU?

      • Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

        How can you knmow she has been manipulated. She is probably trying to make the best of a poor hand.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

          Well, if so she is making a very poor fist of doing that …

        • Sir Joe Soap
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

          Haha
          Like completely screwing up the last General Election that she called?
          There’s nothing quite as pathetic as dealing your own cards, face up, choosing 2s and 3s, then realising you could have dealt yourself 4 Aces.

          Hapless is too weak a word.

    • Alison
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

      Narrow Shoulders is right. A year and a half of farce. If Mrs May had a Cabinet appropriately balanced with Leavers, we would not have this farcical situation where she does not know whether to negotiate for Customs Union membership for goods (heaven forbid), or worse. By ‘appropriately balanced’, I mean every single member of the Cabinet actively working for Brexit. 100%. The country voted to leave the EU.

      That approach would have silenced those tonnes of words muttering, misleading, spouting fake news, and putting non-Leave stuff into Mrs May’s negotiations. Criminal.
      On top of that Mrs May seems to be utterly spineless. I am sure she is courteous, but I fear she is also highly sensitive – and the EU Commission are using that mercilessly.
      So, what to do now? We have to try to keep Mrs May up to the mark in the next fortnight.

  14. Lifelogic
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Indeed but is T May actually capable of doing this? She seem not to possess any leadership abilities, vision or backbone at all.

    You say:- “UK negotiators have been more than generous so far in responding to EU demands for money we do not owe, and in potentially accepting powers and controls we do not have to accept during a possible transition.”

    Indeed they have (to the EU) but not very generous to the people who will have to pay these bills or suffer the costly regulations for longer. Or the businesses who are rendered less able to compete by them. I am not sure you can be “generous” when giving away other people’s money (extracted under threat of imprisonment). Especially when Hammond and May are clearly planning to damage the economy with yet further tax rises (from the current hugely over taxed position). This largely to waste on the dysfunctional NHS, HS2, the EU, greencrap, aircraft carriers without aircraft and other lunacies.

    • Qubus
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:52 am | Permalink

      Mrs May always has an opinion: it is that of the last person who sat on her.

  15. formula57
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Your second paragraph conflicts with your previous, well-founded assertion that “we do not have to pay to trade” surely?

    Why have UK negotiators ” been more than generous so far in responding to EU demands for money we do not owe”?

    The Express newspaper reports Mrs. May is to offer future payments to help the Evil Empire control migrant flows which if true might be unnecessarily and damagingly “courteous and helpful” but does not pass the “strong” test.

    • stred
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      This is probably where the 39 bn comes from. To pay them for off balance sheet bribes.

  16. Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    Lots of ”shoulds” though, Dr Redwood.

    And hasn’t the time passed for being ”helpful”? Surely ”strong and robust” are the way to go now, and perhaps even courtesy might be kept to a minimum. It could be seen as weakness by those who are looking for it.

    Surely, we shouldn’t be paying any money in the interests of trade. Isn’t that bribery?

    • MickN
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:04 am | Permalink

      I don’t know about “Strong and robust” – “Strong and Stable” didn’t work out very well did it?

  17. Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    There was a very good period with Brexiteers issues in the news in a positive way. Several politicians got space to put the case for No Deal. There was news of possible deselection for a noted Conservative opponent of genuine Brexit.

    Now it seems Remain are getting the column inches again. We already know this meeting will amount to nothing. Which way May proceeds in future is the key question.

    Like many, I am already sick and tired of this issue though we seem to be stuck with it.

  18. Bob
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    “The Remain media just seem to like recycling old materials time after time, with no particular purpose.”

    A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth. … If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself. … Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:16 am | Permalink

      Especially true if there is never any effective rebuttal, and this government has made no significant attempt to rebut the rubbish pumped out about Brexit. One may quite reasonably ask why that it is: why are public resources still being misused to produce anti-Brexit propaganda to feed out through the media, but hardly any are being used to counter the constant attacks on the government’s official policy? Well, I think we can all work out one possible answer to that question.

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

      “Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious.”

      I agree. Painting it on the side of a bus seems to work pretty well it seems.

      • libertarian
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

        Peter Parsons

        Yeh, I wonder why remainers are so gullible they believe bus advertising?

        I wonder why the Remain camp hasn’t put out their own bus advert to overturn the result.. I mean it really is that simple so why not do it?

        You dont think that it might be that remainers can’t think of a single reason to need to stay in the EU, being as they are all virtue signallers, or people like Andy with issues about his parents generation

        • Peter Parsons
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

          As Aaron Banks stated in his evidence to the select committee, the Leave campaign was not above playing on emotions and “leading people up the garden path” (his words, not mine).

          There are multiple reasons to stay in the EU, such as the retention of frictionless trade with the UK’s largest trading partner and export martket, and the retention of a UK manufacturing base (it is Patrick Minford who has predicted that Brexit would largely eliminate manufacturing in the UK).

          • Edward2
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

            You continue to repeat the myth about what Prof Minford said.
            He was asked if the UK could survive without a manufacturing sector.
            He said yes, he thought it could.
            He didn’t say that was what he wanted
            He didn’t say Brexit would result in that.

    • jerry
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      @Bob; “Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious.”

      Indeed, hence why UKIP kept banging on about EU migrants ‘stealing British jobs’ and why eurosceptics kept banging on about the EU only allowing straight cucumbers etc…

      • Anonymous
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:45 am | Permalink

        Both are true.

      • Edward2
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

        And remain told us huge increases in unemployment Huge increases in taxation and a recession.

        • jerry
          Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

          @Edward2; Seeing that you have a crystal ball, tell us what are next weeks Lotto numbers are mate, we’ll share the winnings….

          • libertarian
            Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

            Jerry

            Well on the employment front I can tell you

            We have 4.1% unemployed and 716,000 unfilled full time job vacancies

          • Edward2
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 12:03 am | Permalink

            Odd reply from you Jerry.
            Remain supporters predicted all the things I mentioned would happen if we dared to vote to leave.
            And none of their predictions happened.
            If remain had a crystall ball it is useless.

          • jerry
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 6:15 am | Permalink

            @Walter; Indeed! Which suggest that EU migrants are not and never were ‘stealing British jobs’, those who are able and want a job can get a job, assuming that they are not just bone-lazy or to far above their place in society. If a EU migrant can travel two-thirds the way across the EU to find these jobs then why can’t British people travel a couple of hundred miles, why can’t British people work the required hours, abide by the required (hygiene/safety) dress code etc?

          • a-tracy
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

            Libertarian, those full-time job vacancies what sort of jobs are they, highly skilled or low skilled? What are the skills our teens aren’t gearing up to take advantage of? Does this information get fed back into the High Schools of the areas that these vacancies exist in? Also what % of those 716,000 jobs pay more than £18,500 pa?

          • libertarian
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

            Jerry

            Thanks for your post about migrants

            Have you never read any of my posts on that issue?

          • libertarian
            Posted June 29, 2018 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

            a-tracy

            Well obviously the jobs are across the range but here are some indicators

            The 4 largest areas of shortage are in

            Construction, Transportation and storage, Creative and tech, science and healthcare

            The average salary on offer is £28,700 ( across all jobs )

            Schools and the department of Education aren’t remotely interested in the jobs market, thats why we have high youth unemployment , that and the Tory government bu**ered up apprenticeships and T levels …. again..

            Computer Weekly annual survey 2017 suggests ( I think they are on the over pessimistic side but not by a lot) that there will be

            800,000 IT, digital and tech jobs unfilled by 2021 . The New tech industries are in a massive growth spurt with one new startup every 50 minutes !! Recent startup Improbable is the first UK startup to be valued at $1 billion

            The average salary in IT is…. £59,000

            Before someone asks

            Zero Hour Contracts represent 2.8 % of the workforce and 8% of the workforce earn a living wage or less. Automation, AI, IoT and VR are removing low skilled jobs, including fruit picking and packing. There are 32 million in employment

            We urgently need to upskill our young people

          • a-tracy
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

            libertarian, I despair about the lack of forward planning by the education ministry and the business ministry, you would never get away with this lack of anticipation in a private business – those that do hit the wall and crash and we should not be just gambling with the University resources and loans we provide to students.
            I think it maybe because High School teachers don’t have the IT, digital and tech skills to pass on to the next generation, obviously we won’t attract teachers in these skills if you compare teaching salaries to the high £59,000 average salaries, but perhaps we could tempt the next generation of apprentices into these companies, incentivise the companies to train them and pass on skills like we offer universities, if we offered a free degree with a payback to teach first for a couple of years after graduation the basic skills you need to take on this degree level training, something has got to change. Too many students coming out with Sports Science degrees that employers don’t need or want and too few with the skills that are required.

            The people I know on zero hours contracts are retired people that take these position from choice and allows them freedom to duck out of work all over summer, others are students – I don’t believe the problem is as big as some people like to make out, and if those that are on them don’t like them they should re-skill during their time off work and look for something more permanent.

      • libertarian
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

        Jerry

        Sir Steve Nickell of Bank of England estimated that wages were 2% lower due to free movement of labour

        Oh and here’s the regulation

        Commission Regulation (EC) No. 2257/94

        Although the remain camp obviously were right when they said we’d lose 500,000 jobs, the City would move to Frankfurt and WW3 would break out

        • jerry
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 6:19 am | Permalink

          @Walter; Sir Steve Nickell of Bank of England estimated that wages were 2% lower due to free movement of labour”

          Or put another way, wages had been 2% above a sustainable level…

          • libertarian
            Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

            Jerry

            Your childish insistence one trying to associate me with a Mitty like character is laughable from someone who bottled even telling us what you do for a living

            If you knew half of the things I’m involved with, who I advise and the people that I work with your head would explode.

          • jerry
            Posted July 3, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

            @Walter; “If you knew half of the things I’m involved with, who I advise and the people that I work with your head would explode.”

            Well I’m all ears, or at least eyes, not that I would expect you to break any confidential information of course.

            Talk about the pot trying to call the kettle black though, after all you have evaded answering every time I have asked for the name (or Ofcom licence number) of the radio station you own, nor do you cited the TV programmes you have been invited to appear on, heck you don’t even mention the channel name – but then anyone can be a YouTube ‘Star’ these days! 😉

            Even if you are some high-flying person in Industry & Commerce, that alone doesn’t make you correct, after all how many times have well known leaders of Industry & Commerce been criticised on this very site (and others) for “getting it all wrong”.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:41 am | Permalink

      Good point Bob, and that’s why we on the leave side just cannot make our truthful and valid points only once. We need to counter the liars and the myth peddlers time and time again, all the way, lest their poisonous seeds of misinformationtake root.

      We see remainers arguments defeated on this blog every single day to the point of ridicule, yet they still come back with the same old tired discredited garbage. It is part of a brainwashed mindset. People who just cannot accept they were wrong, and they lost. It’s called intransigence.

      Tad

    • Andy
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

      Brilliant post which sums up why Leave won in the first place. 30 years of Eurosceptics lies followed by more lies about immigrants and yet more lies about £350m for the NHS. You lot all believe the falsehoods because you have heard them all so often and you refuse to engage with facts.

      • Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

        Andy – do tell us some facts about your much-admired EU, then. Tell us about just a few of the benefits we have forfeited by voting ‘out’. Tell us too how your EU masters would welcome and reward us, should we suddenly decide to remain shackled, as you remainders wish. What great rejoicing would there be?

        Just a few simple points would suffice. Have a go at producing your own propaganda, instead of using tired old Project Fear soundbites. It obviously annoys you that we’re not convinced about the goodness of your revered institution – so try and convince us, rather than satisfy yourself with recycled insults.

      • libertarian
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        That would be the fact that the Remain camp Said

        Absolutely no way there would be any move towards an UE defence force

        That we would lose 500,000 jobs immediately following a leave vote

        That the City would relocate to Frankfurt ( you Andy promised us this one on many occasions)

        House prices would plummet

        Interest rates would rise rapidly

        Households would be £4300 per year worse off

        That WW3 would break out

        So how come your lies failed even though you claim them as facts ?

      • Edward2
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

        Remain lost because they ran a very negative campaign.
        Symbolised by Project Fear.

  19. Newmania
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    Airbus shifting out of the UK is probably inevitable in the long term but the 14000 jobs will no doubt be replaced by fake jobs so the figures will look just fine and that what really counts isn`t it John. Nissan are running down their investment in Sunderland and Banks are already shifting their operations abroad . We all know what the Conservative Party thinks of business ,and we have Boris Johnson to thank for putting it, shall we say , succinctly .
    But its not “Business ” its jobs , families services education health , it is real lives .

    I look at this political class , indifferent to the fears of families up and down the country , as their jobs hang in the balance, and I wonder what made them this way? What blow in childhood , what bitterness form schooldays , what deep seated flaw made them so lacking in care ?

    I wonder if we are actually of the same species sometimes

    • libertarian
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

      Newmania

      You’re an interesting character as you want to completely ignore the reality around you and carry on pretending everything is bad because you need it to be to justify your views

      Anyone one more time

      There are 718,000 unfilled full time jobs vacant in the UK

      There are 27,490 Engineering jobs vacant in the UK

      Boeing has announced they are opening a UK factory to build aircraft wing components

      Nissan has shed 100 jobs due to poor sales cause by the EU/Govt fiasco over diesel engines

      NO bank has moved, not one. Ardent remain supporters Goldman Sachs and Bloomberg have both started work building new European HQ’s … in London

      I do however agree that this Tory government is the worst one since Ted Heath and maybe even worse

      I have a question for you though and I’ve asked every other extreme remainer on this forum and not one has made an attempt at any answer yet.

      Here goes

      What in your opinion Newmania is the main benefit of being in the EU

    • Anonymous
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

      Indifferent to fears about mass immigration is the indifference that brought you Brexit.

      For the sake of a few thousand jobs you are saying we must import millions of people.

      The figures don’t stack up and they haven’t for decades now.

    • NickC
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

      Newmania, There are (officially) over 9 million people in the UK not born here. Given the disparity of NINos and the IPS, that number is very likely an underestimate, probably by a factor of 2. Real British families displaced by a flood of around 18m migrants. But Remains don’t care about that.

  20. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    The so-called EU Summit is topsy-turvy; more like the Abyss. Money, laws, regulations, chaos & all kinds of people swirl around the event horizon, poised to sink ever deeper into its lowest levels of nonsense.

    Brexiteers have chosen a better way. Out Now!

  21. jerry
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Mrs May should not be attending this EU summit, the government needs to start putting some distance between UK and EU affairs/policies, much of which we no longer have any influence over since the referenda and triggering the A50 process, if we ever did. It would be a crystal clear signal that the UK is prepared to walk away next March without a ‘deal’ and that we are now actively preparing to do just that unless the EU starts serious negotiations – indeed President Trumps up-coming visit is another opportunity to send such a signal.

    “Airbus has no wish to try to sell planes without wings, and is not about to substitute Chinese wings for UK ones.”

    Would it matter if they did move production? In doing so all they will have done, besides spend vast amounts of money on the move, is leave a highly skilled and willing workforce, never mind buildings, for a competitor to move into. Airbus have proved that wings can be built and transported anywhere, nor is doing so an exclusive technology. Same for any motor manufactures who assemble their vehicles in the UK, the UK is still well placed in the world market even if the EU27 becomes restricted, whilst component supply chains could be satisfied either locally or from the RotW.

    “There hasn’t been a new Project Fear worry for some time. The Remain media just seem to like recycling old materials time after time,”

    Cough! John I’ve not read your website for some weeks, perhaps even months, on my return it is as if I never want away… Project Fear is alive and well on both sides of the debate!

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

      Agreed. Bear in mind that any company worth its salt would be re-sourcing components locally for the wings/cars etc well ahead of moving an assembly operation. Just think the thing through makes you realise it’s hot air. It seems these “businessmen” and women are remote from real business and in some political cloud.

    • libertarian
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

      Jerry

      The break from the site has done you good, and welcome back. You were missed, I prefer debating with you and your more thought out points than the raving loons that have been posting about their parents , grandparents and unicorns etc.

      I also agree for the most part with your above post too.

  22. margaret
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    yes: there are key moments when strength as well as cooperation need to take the forefront and this is one of them .

  23. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Britain risks signing up to the worst possible Brexit deal, Theresa May’s former chief of staff has warned as it emerges several Cabinet ministers want freedom of movement to effectively continue after Britain leaves the European Union.

    This on front page of today’s Telegraph reinforces the fears many of us have about Mrs May’s handling of Brexit: “Writing for the Telegraph, Nick Timothy tells the Prime Minister she must urgently harden her negotiating strategy, adding: “The time for playing nice and being exploited is over”.
    Mr Timothy, one of Mrs May’s closest allies, says she has been “undermined” by Parliament and her own Cabinet and now risks being pushed into the worst possible outcome.
    He accuses Greg Clark, the Business Secretary, of making the case for free movement. He says Philip Hammond, the Chancellor, has “blocked meaningful no-deal planning”.”

    Brexit in name only seems to be the order of the day.

  24. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Will Theresa May be taking along Olly Robbins to give her more bad advice?

    A clip of her arrival at a much earlier EU meeting was shown on TV recently; she had with her that avuncular chap with a beard, Tim Barrow, but Olly Robbins was also lurking in the background.

    From June 2017:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39236683

    “Brexit: The people who are negotiating”

    You seem unwilling to recognise that he is leading us to disaster.

  25. Michael
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    I do not agree that the PM should be “her usual courteous and helpful self”

    Mrs Thatcher would not have approached an EU summit in that way. The PM needs to be strong, forceful and outspoken.

    Destabilise the 27 and be ready to manage a no deal should it come to that

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

      Michael

      EU summit “The PM needs to be strong, forceful and outspoken”

      Very good! However, one does not treat one’s own future paymaster badly if one seeks a politically lucrative, highly remunerated position, that is currently on offer to all dutiful Politically failed devotees, now does one? Brussels is full of them!

      Ask Blair, he is still seeking his Presidental position in Brussels?

  26. dittoagain
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    We voted to leave we did not vote to leave and then to have a transition period– we don’t need a post brexit relationship with them and the EU is not going to offer us a new deal that in any way compromises their four freedoms so then let’s just get on with it- and no need for attending any more of these silly meetings

  27. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Well she’s as courteous but as hapless as a German football coach who has pre-booked their place to see their team play at the World Cup Final. Your team can’t play, and it’s not going to happen!

    As you say the EU has other priorities. They just won’t be interested in Mme May and her team squabbling and scrabbling around. Frankly they’re right.

    The businesses need to re-source components in the UK as far as possible, and get with the plan. Localisation is the new globalisation, and they should be de minimis second-sourcing from the UK. Cable assemblies don’t have to be made for the Mini in Romania.

    Your government needs to work for a no deal Brexit, because frankly the EU aren’t interested. As Ambrose E-P writes today, open the borders to tariff free access and let the EU compete with worldwide sources for our business.

  28. Ghost of JB
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Thanks, John, an enjoyable and thoughtful piece as usual.

    Aside from the Remainiacs who troll sites like yours, most conservatives would agree with you, I’m sure. As others have said, however, our current “leadership” seems to want to please everyone, which is always a recipe for failure.

    Do you have faith that what is delivered will meet the requirements of our manifesto and respect the result of the referendum, or are you expecting a fudge?

  29. John Payne
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Its amazing how Remainer’s spew out project fear statements such as build up of traffic at our ports and at the same time claim demand for British products will fall. These two are not 100% compatible arguments.
    Since our major export trade with EU is Financial Services we don’t need lorries to carry these services through ports.
    Our major import trade with EU is consumer goods which means lorries come into UK full and many will leave empty (based on remainer’s claim we won’t sell so much to EU). I am not sure how long it will take for empty lorries to pass through customs, not long I suggest.

    I have a suggestion for BMW which would resolve their problem of delivery of parts for the Mini (once a successful and well known British car). Solution is simple make all assembly parts in the UK, and save on transport and potentially labour costs.

    There are plenty of ways we can counter project fear “sound bites” and its about time those wanting to leave the EU to bring their ideas to press.

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 2:17 am | Permalink

      The one that is most risible is Airbus. Its goods from UK fly in a specially developed aircraft (nicknamed Beluga) from Broughton to Toulouse or by by sea. Some parts are made in the United States. Apparently this extremely time sensitive supply chain is at risk from queues caused by paper form-filling taking more than one minute at Dover so that Airbus might have to move its wing manufacturing to China.
      I find it incredible that so many in Parliament are so ignorant and stupid – especially in the Remoaner Brexit Select Committee they take such politically motivated assertions seriously.

  30. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    I may be wrong, but it seems to me that this Bill which has just completed its passage through both Houses of Parliament:

    https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/haulagepermitsandtrailerregistrationbill.html

    “Haulage Permits and Trailer Registration Bill”

    could be used to help enforce UK controls on exports across the land border from Northern Ireland into the Irish Republic in order to assist the EU in protecting the integrity of the EU Single Market while keeping that border as open as it is now.

    If the use of that particular new UK law would not be appropriate for that purpose then it would be a simple matter to pass another new UK law which did the job: so if you want a permit to take goods across the border into the EU Single Market then you must ensure that the goods you carry comply with all EU requirements, and if you fail to do that – for example, by taking across a load of US-style “chlorinated chicken” – then you will risk losing your permit, and facing criminal prosecution, fines, and imprisonment.

  31. Freeborn John
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    The problem is that May has a remainer case rather a brexiteer one. From her very first meeting with the EU Commission after sending the Article 50 letter she has wanted a cosmetic Brexit modelled on her earlier Judicial & Home Affairs opt-out-and-back-in-again. This is surely plain for all to see now. You have to remove her because the public will not vote for this incredible level of incompetence at the next election. She stacked her committees with a Remain majority and now that her Brexit committee has a pro-brexit majority she is bypassing it to use a wider cabinet that she believes will back her incompetent cosmetic Brexit.

  32. rick hamilton
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Barnier has no imagination (if he did he wouldn’t be a bureaucrat to start with). He can only think in terms of EU rules. When we leave, these do not apply to the UK. Therefore either the EU accepts an entirely new arrangement designed specifically for the UK or we walk away, whatever the consequences.

    No business enterprise wants tariffs, or borders imposed where there are none at present. So the EU must treat the UK like we treated Ireland in 1922, that is as a close trading partner who will remain so after leaving the political union. That is a bespoke arrangement. There is no point comparing the UK with Norway or Switzerland because we are already in the EU and they were not. We are not a supplicant begging for admission, but a full member who is fed up with its bone-headed intransigence. We have also contributed ( I heard ) about 450Bn in the last 40 years to help them create their ever closer union.

    I would approach this as one had to approach impossible oriental negotiators decades ago. Just confront them with our position as above and let them work out the answer for themselves. If you go along with the ‘more detail is required’ nonsense you are finished.

  33. Norman
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    It’s a fine morning in late June, with a sense of well-being in the air! I like the up-beat and generous tone of what you set out, John, and hope this is how it will go. I understand all the negatives and anxieties expressed in the above comments, but I think its in order, at this crucial juncture, to support Mrs May to get the job done – a very tough challenge, and a huge responsibility. I also think the EU is facing other historic challenges, but will not and cannot compromise on its basic constructs. There are obvious wider strategic implications, so it is right that our PM has tried hard to be reasonable: but equally, she must not compromise the will of the British people as expressed in the Referendum. I do not agree with all her stances, but I continue to wish her well, and hope she can deliver.

  34. Martyn G
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    It seems to me that the PM is going along the path of handing the UK over to the EU in such a way that never again will we be able to run our own affairs, and with little or no say any more at all at the EU seats of power. I remember G Brown, Labour PM, treacherously agreeing to the removal of the name England from the map of the EU and to the UK being split into 3 regions e.g. the SE of England became part of Northern France via the Manche region.
    I think that our remainers (and TM is one) are determined to ensure that never again shall the UK and England in particular influence or hinder the formation of the USE. How much I hope that I am quite wrong in that thought.

    • Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:30 am | Permalink

      Martyn,

      I have the same worries. I still cannot believe after the referendum we got to this state and so far nobody has stepped in to stop this happening.

  35. Russ
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    How high is this ‘summit’? Can normal people reach such heights?

  36. Oracle
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Germany has internal problems building. France, unable to cope with its youth unemployment is trying to reintroduce National Service which it envisages will have teenagers picking up litter, making office staff cups of coffee, and being go-fers for little pay.
    It is bound to catch on in Spain too…especially in Valencia. Fake News BBC Newsnight cannot keep a civil tongue in its head when interviewing Germany’s AfD. Panic in our Establishment and the Establishments of the EU.

  37. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    I find it hard to understand how the government can have got itself into such an almighty pickle over the largely fabricated ‘problem’ of the Irish land border unless there has been a rather cunning plot to do that, a strategic plot to gradually maneouvre Theresa May into her present corner, and a plot which I suspect involves people outside of the UK as well as some diehard Remainers, collaborators, here.

    Why did the UK government carry on talking about making just a few hardly noticeable, but yet to be properly defined, changes at the border long after the Irish government had stated in terms that it would not accept any changes at all? Why did Theresa May not steal a march by saying that as the Irish were taking that absurd and intransigent position then the UK would give way and commit to leaving the border exactly as it is?

    And why did the UK government not point out that Labour’s plan to continue with some kind of customs union would not by itself solve this ‘problem’, because the final removal of all controls on the Irish border depended on the advent of the EU Single Market, just the Customs Union had not been enough?

    And why did Theresa May unnecessarily accept responsibility for solving the EU’s side of the ‘problem’ as well as our own side, essentially adopting an argument which was being used by Remoaners here as well as by the EU and the Irish?

    Fortunately she did say that the UK could not do it alone, it would need help, and now that Leo Varadkar has openly said that he sees no reason why he should help the UK I reckon she could be let off the hook on that, if she wanted to be let off the hook.

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 2:05 am | Permalink

      Lots of reasons. First Mrs May’s insistence on a deep and comprehensive partnership instead of simply leaving the EU and rebuilding UK as a self-governing sovereign state first. that allowed the EU to introduce into the withdrawal arrangements under Article 50, all sorts of restrictions on the future. It also meant she could not establish clear objectives in the negotiations that distinguished what she wanted from membership of the EU or even outlined what an independent UK needed.
      Second she is a poor negotiator.
      third she is a poor communicator.
      Fourth, she is obsessed with detail and secondary issues and has little insight into complex big pictures.
      Fifth, she actually sees little wrong with UK remaining ‘aligned’ with the EU- splendid euphemism for vassalage.
      Sixth, she is a technocrat by nature and a supra-nationalist by belief and experience. When she goes to Brussels she meets with people like herself. She is comfortable with them. How can supra-national government by the combined efforts of all these people like her not be the best for Britain and, indeed, all countries, at least in Europe?
      Seventh, she is out of touch with ordinary people. She does not value and does not understand patriotism and believes the sovereign self-governing nation state to be obsolete.
      Apart from that she is a very nice person but a bit crass on the PR front. It was an act of great selfishness and cruelty on the part of the Tories to elect her as leader. Both Leave and Remain factions believed that because of her weaknesses, they could control her. So she won, poor woman.

    • JM
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

      Denis..not correct..Veradkar did not say that he sees no reason why he should help the UK about the border…he said that it was not his job to do so..also talking about hooks..Veradkar did not make the hook nor was he involved with keeping anyone on it.. that prize surely goes to IDS Gove boris Cash and the rest.

      If you want UK nationa independence like JR does it now looks like you’re going to have to go on the streets and declare it like the irish did one hundred years ago..but this time please leave us out of it..JM Co Armagh

  38. iain
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    In all the years since Ted Heath took us in to the ” Common Market” the ONLY Prime Minister who has stood up to the EU was Mrs Thatcher. She obtained a rebate because she was not leaving the discussions without it. Will there ever be another ?????

    • Mitchel
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:23 am | Permalink

      The comparison of Thatcher with May would seem to vindicate Marx’s famous quip about history repeating itself first as tragedy,then as farce.

      • BrexiteerwivMusket
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

        That’s the second joke he made. The first was the Communist Manifesto

  39. Original Richard
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    History shows that it is false to believe that membership of the EU protects our businesses when in fact so much has been moved abroad that we now have a £80bn/year trading deficit with the EU, which includes $30bn/year in vehicles and automotive parts.

    Whatever damage the EU can do to our economy outside of the EU it is nothing compared to the damage the EU can inflict upon us when we are in the EU and subject to all their rules and regulations.

  40. MPC
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    One thing Michael Heseltine has been consistent and correct about since the referendum is that the EU will definitely not offer any ‘deal’. So where are the detailed plans for WTO?

    • BrexiteerwivMusket
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

      He is good at buying helicopters

  41. Andy
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    It is clear you all think that your Brexit is going wrong. Most of you now correctly recognise that it is a car crash.

    But you believe that everyone else is to blame for that car crash, and that none of it is down to you.

    Before June 2016 you used to blame the EU for all of our problems.

    Now you also blame the majority of MPs, the Lords, high court judges, the BBC, the Civil Service (particularly Olly Robbins), the CBI, the TUC, Tony Blair, Airbus, BMW, Sir John Major, Labour, the SNP, Ireland, Angela Merkel, Gareth Southgate, the FBI, Ikea etc etc etc.

    Actually the only ones to blame for Brexit going wrong are the people who voted for it. YOU.

    It is not my fault that none of you knew what you were voting for. Grow a pair and start taking some responsibility for this entirely predictable mess YOU have created.

    • Blue and Gold
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

      Couldn’t have put it better myself!

      • BrexiteerwivMusket
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

        No you couldn’t Blue and Gold. Well done!

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

      Well, I have sometimes offered Theresa May my personal advice, I think perfectly sensible well-reasoned and well-referenced advice from somebody who is not stupid or racist or xenophobic but who has seen the need for us to leave the EU for over two decades now, and I even told her directly in the early hours of June 8th 2001 that despite her narrowish victory in that general election she should expect us to leave the EU in the end, because that is what would eventually happen, we would not be giving up; however oddly enough for some reason she has preferred the advice of a senior civil servant whose heart is in the EU – as indeed is hers, still, at bottom. That is why it has been going wrong.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted June 28, 2018 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

        https://www.channel4.com/news/by/gary-gibbon/blogs/brexit-white-paper-takes-shape

        “Olly Robbins, it seems, is attempting to get ministerial licence to pursue a series of approaches ranging from a Norway-style rule-taking approach to those with more sovereignty but less access to EU markets … ”

        “But if Mr Robbins gets his way next week and the White Paper options as currently drafted pass, if he’s right too on the EU27 appetite for negotiation on this basis, then by the time the EU has engaged with the most Norway-like of the options in the White Paper we will already be sliding closer to the exit date. The scope for re-thinking the UK approach without moving the exit date will be limited … ”

        Why are pro-Brexit Tory MPs allowing this to happen?

        • Alison
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 5:57 am | Permalink

          Thank you, Denis, for that link. That is an enraging piece, with all too predictable contents. You didn’t quote this titbit from the end of the article:
          “based on un-minuted conversations which Olly Robbins recalls having with EU officials”
          Deeply unprofessional or devious not to minute meetings. Could we ask (if necessary, under FOI) for a list of and then minutes of all discussions – formal and ad hoc – Mr Robbins has had with officials from member states in the last ten months, perhaps?

    • Edward2
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

      Andy
      You make things up by saying what you think other people’s views are and then blame them for holding those views.
      It is a very odd way of arguing.

      Remain are throwing every obstacle they can in the path of leaving the EU and then blame others for the delays.
      It’s clever propaganda technique but it still will not work.

    • Anonymous
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

      Create a crisis and then complain that there is a crisis.

      This has been Remain’s obstructive tactic all along.

      We are not getting the Brexit we voted for and so will not take responsibility.

      Andy tells us that there is a wrong way to vote.

      I don’t like people who tell others that there is a wrong way to vote.

      • Marina
        Posted June 29, 2018 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

        Leave won.

        You are getting exactly what you voted for.

        Grow up, stop whining and take ownership of the calamity you have unleashed on our country

    • BrexiteerwivMusket
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

      Still not left the UK? The clock is ticking. Yemen is nice this time of year. Have a good time! Take a tent, no not the broad church pc type…a canvas one.

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 1:44 am | Permalink

      it seems to have escaped your notice that the people running Brexit are Remainers. That could possibly have something to do with it going wrong, non? Remainers should not be allowed to run anything in government. They are ideological, unpatriotic and really rather ignorant, blind to reality, and stupid, not to mention, prejudiced and often quite hateful. Typically the sort of arrogant, ill-educated, bad mannered people who harangue and abuse strangers on the underground for being in public carrying a bag with the slogan, “The EU is not my bag”.

  42. Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Absolutely agree with the approach proposed in this blog, but the question is whether Mrs May has the gumption to take that approach. Looking at her previous actions, the answer is probably not. Some way must be found to put pressure on her to do the right thing for this country and to stop trying to please the EU.

  43. Posted June 28, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,

    There are two ways to achieve a hard brexit: (1) by giving up negotiations about the withdrawal agreement’s formal wording or (2) by continuing negotiations and agreeing on a formal withdrawal agreement butafter that arriving at a result for the future relationship that is unlikely to be accepted by all 27 remaining members and non-negotiable for the UK.
    Take your pick. Imo the best domestic effect would be achieved by sabotageing the withdrawal process and blaming the EU for intransigence. Then Mr Fox can do his favorite US trick and get Mr Trump to ride to the rescue. That would satisfy Legatum requirements and present to the UK public a “better” replacement for the EU relationship. The consequences will take some time to arrive, but in time for the elections, which Labour will win but then Labour will have to dismantle Fox’s booby trap, probably impossible. Good politics in a two party system.

    The EU negotiators are familiar with all possible scenarios and will continue to be “difficult” because they do believe that the UK government lack the internal power to arrive at anything but a very hard brexit, as long as a large minority of the Conservative party is against continuation of the EU (ie, not the UK/EU relationship but the EU itself in its current form) . Not very good for the UK economy but as said, good politics if that is what one wants. Of course this type of activity will not sufficiently undermine the EU to make it disintegrate. Probably the contrary. Which is a very good reason for the EU negotiators to go on even in the knoewledge that it will lead to nothing.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

      You’re over-thinking this.

      52% of Britons want the EU to do what is good for it, on the basis that the UK can do the same. We have different ideas about what is good for our country.

      We can predict that your youth unemployment rates in southern countries won’t end well.
      We think that letting 1 million migrants into Germany wasn’t the cleverest solution.
      We don’t understand the earlier need to remove all customs posts for a Schengen agreement and then putting them up again to stop migrants moving between Schengen states.
      We don’t understand why you threw away different currencies, put in the Euro with strict rules for national budget deficits, then bailed out those countries who failed to reach the target.
      We don’t understand why we had to bail out Ireland in 2008, when Germany had a large surplus which it could have lent to its client state.
      We don’t understand why you have such a large focus on trade agreements for goods, when we are unique in the “old EU” in having a far larger service industry.
      We don’t understand your antipathy with us as an EU member when we wish to amend rules for us for our special situation (a la Cameron “negotiation”).
      Now, when we wish to leave the rules-based organisation (where rules are made overseas) we don’t understand why you are making this so difficult for both parties.
      Finally, we don’t understand why, as the second largest “paymaster” to this organisation, we aren’t receiving more courtesy and less threats from EU-based politicians and businesses when we question the rules then withdraw from them.

      British people are quite stunned by this insulting and arrogant behaviour.

    • Edward2
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

      You are assuming that the EU wants to do a deal.
      It does not.
      Leaving to WTO trading rules is what the UK will have to accept.
      Sooner we realise this the better.

      • Posted June 29, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

        The EU wants to do a deal that suits the EU (similar to what the UK would want if it made up its mind about what it would want). Such a deal must conform to well known principles and, most importantly, be credible. Acountry thatchanges its mind constantly and allows populist sentiments to undermine treaties (in the Trump fashion) is not credible as a partner because such a country will always cherry-pick whatever is agreed. The pre-Brexit Britain had foreign policy principles that took it into two world wars and made an effort to explain to the electorate that any relationship has costs as well as benefits.
        That seems to have disappeared and is the main problem of keeping the brexit process consensual.

        • Edward2
          Posted June 29, 2018 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

          I disagree.
          Nothing the EU has done so far makes me think they have any real desire to do any deal.
          There has not been any slight hints of what compromises they might make.
          Just repeated statements that their orginal position is fixed.
          A deal normally requires movement and goodwill on both sides.

          • Posted July 1, 2018 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

            I did not say they want to compromise. Iguess they reackon they do not have to. But a deal on EU terms would be welcome of course. This is not rocker science or some game of bluffing. It is simply matching both sides strengths and weaknesses and figuring out where there is an area of overlap. The UK position is as yet undefined, the EU position is crystal clear and the EU is ready to move on even if the UK walks away.

            That the UK position is undefined is -in the short term- to the advantage of the government because latent conflicts within the ruling party may be disabled before they become acute and then out of the set of future deals known to be acceptable to (all of) the EU 27 countries one or two might be chosen to start proper negotiations.

  44. John Dodds
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    The only thing strong in the PMs speeches is the smell of hypocrisy.The coming Chequers talks will be the Leavers being overpowered and outvoted by the PMs Remainers giving her the excuse that she is not to blame.In Africa the cry in these circumstances is ” I am not the one”.As for the Conservative Party,future survival is most unlikely thereafter.

  45. Mick
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/980864/brexit-news-date-delay-theresa-may-hilary-benn-brexit-select-committee-EU-summit
    That’s been the strategy of the Brexit committee mainly full of remoaners all along to thwart Brexit and delay as much as possible, someone should whisper in Benns ear that we are leaving next March 2019 and if he and his buddies don’t like it then pack your bags and go live in your beloved Europe , you might as well because come the next GE all the remoaners will be looking for alternative employment, bye bye you’ll not be missed

  46. Glenn Vaughan
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Let’s at least cheer ourselves with two items of good news from outside the UK.

    Firstly, President Trump will be able to strengthen the U.S. Supreme Court with another conservative appointment when Anthony Kennedy retires on July 31st.

    Secondly, Germany has been eliminated from the football World Cup at the earliest possible stage.

    If Margaret Thatcher was alive today she might well be urging us to “Rejoice! Rejoice!”

  47. Nigel Seymour
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    These are extracts of text taken from HM Gov booklet sent to every household prior to the EU referendum at a cost to the taxpayer of circa 9 million pounds. There is an issue concerning what the UK public did or did not understand regarding the Referendum. I wonder how many actually read the booklet? If you don’t know anything about this booklet then I suggest you take more interest in what’s actually going on…

    ‘ Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK’
    – So, 17.4m voters disagreed and yet those who voted to remain think we should have another referendum. If another referendum went the way of leave would there be a call for a 3rd referendum?
    ‘ Remaining inside the EU guarantees our full access to its Single Market’
    – So, This said to me that we would be leaving the Single Market? Am I right or wrong?
    ‘ Losing our full access to the EU’s Single Market would make exporting to Europe harder and increase costs’
    – So, This said to me that we would be leaving the Single Market? Am I right or wrong?
    ‘ If the UK voted to leave the EU , the resulting economic shock would risk higher prices of some household goods’
    – So, Having read this, did I not understand what this meant?
    ‘This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide’
    – So, Having read this, did I not understand what this meant?

  48. Malcolm Edward
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    I agree with you – we need our PM to be strong.
    However Mrs May needs reminding that her job is to stand up for British interests and it is not to appease the unreasonable demands of the EU.

    As an independent nation we can react to mitigate EU hostility, if we are sold out we will be unable to.

    On immigration we already have enough people in the UK and we have been far too lenient – there should be no more net immigration.

  49. Posted June 28, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    You keep saying that the Withdrawal Agreement is somehow linked to and indeed contingent on the Future Trade deal. It isn’t. And it never has been. I do not know why you keep lying. The EU will not start trade talks beyond the loose framework till we have left. You do read the EU paperwork I suppose?

  50. Blue and Gold
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    No new ideas just the same old Right wing ideology that Project Deceit are continuing.

    No wonder the UK public are getting increasing fed up with the Brexiteers/Brexmoaners, and the majority now wish to Remain in the EU.

    Borders…why is Mr.Redwood not screaming from the rooftops to get our border back to Dover rather than Calais, seeing he wants to ‘ take back control’? Of course we all know the answer to that!

    The media are nearly all for Brexit, led by the PM, Paul Dacre.

    Gullible people swallow up the distorted view of the world that the elite, establishment Brexiteers have.

    I have said this many times before, if we have a No Deal, it will not affect the finances of Mr Redwood and his elite chums. It will affect the kind of citizens they claim to want to help.

    • BrexiteerwivMusket
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

      The majority wish to exit the EU. The vote was on 23rd June 2016. Sorry you missed it.Parliament has since voted to accept the outcome. The two major parties included it in their manifestos as accepting it though they accepted it prior to the referendum too .The exit takes place in nine months time. Getting a passport for you to leave the UK is pretty easy.

    • mancunius
      Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

      The opposite appears to be the case – see YouGov polls and summary, June 20/21st 2018.
      “When we ask what people think the government should do about leaving the EU, just over half (53%) think that it should go ahead with Brexit, mostly on its current course (42%) though 11% would prefer a softer Brexit. ”

      So it seems the population has become increasingly fed up with Remoaners, and more now wish to get on with Brexit and Leave the EU, come what may.

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 1:38 am | Permalink

      You seem to have a problem with facts. Clearly you are one who has his own truth.

  51. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Well, this is where Theresa May has got us by taking bad advice from civil servants who have never wanted us to leave the EU and who still do not want us to leave the EU and who are so lacking in patriotism that they would actually prefer it all to end in tears if it cannot actually be prevented, a kind of scorched earth Brexit … now we are being lectured by the Irish Prime Minister:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0628/973770-eu-council-summit/

    “Mr Varadkar said: “The lack of progress in the negotiations on the withdrawal agreement has been very disappointing.

    “We still need to see detailed proposals from the UK on how it intends to deliver on the clear commitments it made in December and March.””

    The Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg actually has the most important part of the answer to that, the same one that he gave to Guy Verhofstadt last week:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh4LlXtwJjM

    “Guy Verhofstadt to Rees-Mogg: EU would insist on a hard border”

    Because, the former said, “The rules are the rules, you cannot change the rules.”

    That video is now followed by one of Jacob Rees-Mogg making a visit to the border in the company of a Sky reporter.

    “The practicalities of continuing as we are, are very straightforward if there’s the political will to do it.”

    Correct, after all we have had stuff coming over that land border into the UK without any let and hindrance for more than a quarter of a century now, since the advent of the EU Single Market in December 1992, paragraph 36 here:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/638135/6.3703_DEXEU_Northern_Ireland_and_Ireland_INTERACTIVE.pdf

    basically taking it on trust that there will not be too much that does not comply with EU standards and so there is no real need to intercept and check it at the border, and that will not change for us in the foreseeable future – not unless and until we decide that some EU standard is no longer good enough, or the EU is no longer properly enforcing some of its standards – and as far as the other side is concerned we could continue to provide a legal guarantee that we will not be allowing anything to be sent across the border that the EU would regard as contraband, see my earlier comment about haulage permits:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/06/28/the-eu-summit/#comment-943336

    It is all perfectly practicable, if the political will is there on both sides.

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 1:36 am | Permalink

      I don’t blame the civil servants. I blame Mrs May alone, of whom I wrote the day she was elected leader of the Conservatives, “That’s the end of Brexit.” see my separate comment.

    • JasonW
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 4:44 am | Permalink

      Denis..it’s a little late Rees-Mogg visiting the irish border..saw him on TV yesterday and if anyone looked so out of place it was R-M with his city attire standing there on that bridge looking a bit lost with the whole of the traffic whizzing by..sad really

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted June 29, 2018 at 8:05 am | Permalink

        He said beforehand that he would gain little by visiting the border and he said the same afterwards, that it was interesting but really it had told him nothing new and relevant which would help solve the so-called ‘problem’. I can see his point because this is just a deliberately contrived political and legal obstacle to the orderly withdrawal of the UK from the EU much more than it is any real practical problem. I notice that you choose to criticise Jacob Rees-Mogg rather than criticise the man from the EU Parliament who spends most of his time on changing the rules for saying that you cannot change the rules.

  52. libertarian
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    ****** Breaking News *****

    Sorry to bring you bad news ….. For Andy, Newmania, Tablazero, hans, Rein , Blue & Gold etc

    British defence giant BAE Systems has won the tender to design and manage the construction of nine anti-submarine warships. The deal represents the biggest peacetime building programme in Australian naval history and is worth $35 billion, or £20 billion.

    • Rb
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 9:32 am | Permalink

      e building programme in Australian naval history and is worth $35 billion, or £20 billion.

      >
      The Australians are spending a fortune on ‘Defence’. They have spent 5 billion on a few American drones just to fly around photographing the sea. Its quite scary. I hope we dont see this here.

  53. Stop The Tyranny!
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone know why certain individuals in Kent have a sort of James Bond (I am above the law license) to grow ultra strong cannabis?
    And Sativex is just a cannabis plant liquidized and put in a spray bottle.

    • libertarian
      Posted June 29, 2018 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

      Stop The Tyranny

      The factory is a medical research establishment. Most of the cannabis grown there is for research purposes. The synthesised drug called Sativex, to help those with multiple sclerosis and is available on the NHS in Wales but not in England due to cost

      GW is the global leader in developing cannabinoid-based medicines. cannabidiol (approved by FDA as Epidiolex in the United States) is to treat certain rare and catastrophic forms of childhood-onset epilepsy.

      Dr. Geoffrey Guy and Dr. Brian Whittle, two well-known entrepreneurs in the UK biotech sector worked closely with both the UK Home Office and the UK’s medicines regulatory authority on establishing necessary licences and procedures to facilitate the progress of a cannabinoid research program.

      • Bible Prophecy
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

        Cannabis is a plant anyone can easily grow from seed in sunlight. Big Pharma cannot just confiscate Gods property to make a quick buck.

  54. Iain Gill
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    No water supply in rugby at all again.

    Our public sector infrastructure looking 3rd world again.

    Schools will shut again, as they are not allowed to open if the water is off, and parents won’t be able to go to work.

    Come on John tell the people running the country it’s simply not good enough.

  55. Prigger
    Posted June 28, 2018 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    BBC Question Time
    The first question related to Rendition and alleged torture of detainees around the time of 9/11 in the year 2001.Immediately two panelists started condemning Trump for being against human rights and also brought Boris into the equation. Boris, I believe was merely a journalist and a humble MP for Henley. Trump was not a politician at the time let alone President.
    I know I have written this before, but some people should ask themselves, including the SNP, why first, they have been obsessed with Trump years before he became a politician and why they are going loopy about Boris in a political act absolutely nothing to do with him.

  56. Peter D Gardner
    Posted June 29, 2018 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    the most revealing thing Guy Verhofstadt said to the Brexit Select Committee was that this is not a negotiation in the classical sense. It brought to mind the criticisms of the Government made by the UK’s Rep in Brussels who was ‘moved on’ – sorry can’t remember his name. Basically UK is bound by EU rules so it cannot be a free negotiation until the UK has actually left. As Verhofstadt said, that is why Article 50 distinguishes between a ‘withdrawal agreement’, which is to be negotiated within the EU rules, and a ‘framework’ of the future relationship and only the former is subject to the two year limit.
    By insisting on her single goal of a deep and comprehensive partnership Mrs May has created confusion and allowed the EU to insist upon including in the ‘withdrawal agreement’ conditions that severely restrict the scope of yet to be held negotiations on the future relationship, such as the backstop on the Irish Border, which is a proxy for much wider restrictions on UK, and thus would severely compromise UK’s future independence.
    Mrs May has made most of the mistakes in “The Idiot’s Guide to Negotiating for Beginners” textbook, but this one will be the most damaging to UK’s interests well into the future.

  57. Stop Political Fake
    Posted June 29, 2018 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    Theresa May and EU leaders are involved in a plot to create the political will and theater to deliver “apocalyptic” punishment for having the temerity to vote to leave the EU. That should teach us once and for all!

  58. Stop Political Fake
    Posted June 29, 2018 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    The Dutch prime minister, Mark Rutte said: “I don’t want to talk in apocalyptic terms”

    >
    That means he does want to talk in apocalyptic terms.

  59. Rb
    Posted June 29, 2018 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    John, imagine how the European Media is reporting Britain at the moment. They are reporting we were involved in rendition, torture (which is of course terrorism) and at the same time Theresa May is indirectly threatening Europeans with terrorism if they cut ties with us on security.

    The EU media machine is intentionally engineering things to make Britain look the evil nation, not the EU empire. And Theresa May is helping them in this plot. The idea is EU politicians cannot screw us over completely without the will of the European people in support.

  60. Dennis Zoff
    Posted June 29, 2018 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    John

    Facts4EU

    THERESA MAY SPLASHES THE CASH – AGAIN!
    AGREES TO GIVE EU €330 MILLION EXTRA?
    UK TO PAY INTO VOLUNTARY FUND FOR TURKEY?

    …..any explanation on this unjustified expenditure?

  61. Rb
    Posted June 29, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    It would help our image abroad if our politicians were seen to do something about the rendition and torture news. If only that it then gets reported overseas. We cannot afford to not care about our international image (like the Americans didn’t care after 911) as we are not a superpower like them and we were not the ones attacked on 911. America is another country.

  62. Bible Prophecy
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    The Righteous regardeth the cause of the poor, the wicked regardeth not to know it.
    The first century church had “zeal” for the poor and needy (many of us have lost that zeal).

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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