The EU wants to rely on the WTO as the UK leaves to be an active member and supporter of the WTO

The EU spent hours arguing over migration policy, with Italy opposing the draft Council conclusions. Finally they reached agreement with a few face saving formulas for the disputants.

Mrs Merkel got language into the document about countering “secondary movements of asylum seekers between member states” The German Interior Minister is demanding a stop to migrants moving from Italy across the German border to take jobs, benefits and housing in Germany. I don’t see how this weak phrase solves that problem, nor see how the EU with freedom of movement and Schengen rules could prevent a lawful refugee from moving from country a to country B if they wish.

Italy got language in about exploring how migrant centres could be set up outside the EU to process applications. There is no commitment to implement such a policy, no special budget, and as yet no idea of where and how this could be done. It may be enough for the Italian PM for the summer, but Mr Salvini will need some tangible answers. Italy wants an end to boats arriving with many migrants now.

The end of the Council presented a friendly face because no-one had lost or been slapped down. Instead the issues drift on to another Council. The one positive out of it for all of us was a new found enthusiasm for the World Trade Organisation. The EU agreed unanimously to commit to ” a comprehensive approach to improving…the functioning of the WTO” and to promote the “strengthening of the WTO as an institution”. As the Uk shifts from reliance on EU membership to direct reliance on WTO membership for all trade matters, it is good to know the EU takes its membership of the WTO seriously and wants to work with the UK and other like minded members of the WTO to cut trade costs and remove more barriers.

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144 Comments

  1. Adam
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 5:42 am | Permalink

    If the EU wasn’t tied together into such a rigid lump, its parts could act flexibly instead of causing more chaotic tangles.

    • Hope
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:29 am | Permalink

      JR, this is Ruth ironic blog. Cameron went ass in hand to beg for changes including immigration he got stonewalled in particular by Menacain Merkel’s Germany. He came back and lied he reformed the EU and must stay in even though all his main points were dropped before any discussion took place.

      May has been threatened by all in the EU making menacing veiled threats to our nation. She kisses the cheeks of tempoeple who made these threats. Accepts a Belgium shirt as symbolism as staying in the EU, and gives more of our money £300 million, off the books, to build the EU Turkey migration pact to get Merkel off the hook, when it would be in,our interest for her to be removed. We still ahve Rudd and May wanting to give away security intelligence unconditionally and for free when the EU states our country cannot be trusted and have not yet resolved U.K. Citizen rights across the EU!

      Rudd’s newspaper article today bordering the realms of a fairy story instead of accepting the responsibility for her failings to keep us safe, three attrocities, insecure borders, inviting all families of citizens from the EU when our public services overwhelmed and her govt demands more taxes, her failure to change the unfit Home Office, her failure to continue May’s Windrush scandal, and the scandal of murders and soaring crime when Rudd told the police this year their demands for monorail would fall on deaf ears, tell that to the families of victims! If that is not enough then we have her dept telling the select committee they lost 56,000 illegal immigrants this year! Does this help the black Labour market, slave trade, human trafficking, crime, etc. she like May are and were an absolute disgrace.

      Negotiators? No, EU fanatics willing to sale our country down the river at high cost to the U.K. Taxpayer. Oust May and her supporters they are not fit for office.

    • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      @Adam:
      EU27 – sofar unified (on Brexit)
      UK1 – sofar disunited and arguing with itself, even unable to produce its white paper!

      • Edward2
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

        Hungary Poland Italy And others?
        I know you always present the pro EU argument Peter, but the EU 27 are not unified.

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

          Plus the constant refusal to actually make a decision is alienating more of the population within the 27 EU countries.

          They will soon see what many in the UK have already realised, it is not possible to legislate for the benefit of 27(8) countries, each area needs its own arrangements.

        • hans christian ivers
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

          no but they are not alone

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

          @Edward2: Neither am I suggesting EU27 unity on other subjects. On the Brexit negotiations, the 27 heads of government are pretty much of one mind: . . . waiting endlessly for te UK and no preparedness to throw the legal order (on single market and 4 freedoms) out of the window for the sake of a departing UK.

          • libertarian
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

            PvL

            Point one there are only 3 freedoms, Germany has been resolutely vetoing the other one for 25 years Oh and it now seems that not all of Germany is onside with some of the other freedoms either.

            I agree that this Tory government is the most incompetent we’ve ever had and Brown took some beating but May has managed it. You should thank you’re lucky Gold Stars or else the fracturing of the EU would be far more evident

        • libertarian
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

          I think you’ll find that Germany is split and Merkels days look numbered too.

          The EU is papering over the cracks whilst the UK media focus entirely on whats going on here

          • hans christian ivers
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

            Libertarian,

            It looks like yo will be wrong on Merkel as well

          • libertarian
            Posted July 4, 2018 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

            hans

            You think so? You think she has the power she once had? Interesting, that she will be known forever now for reintroducing “transit” camps back into Germany

            Oh and the word is *YOU* .. Yo is a word used only by 18 year old hipsters

      • Claudia
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:03 am | Permalink

        Very simplistic view. The EU 27 are beginning to see their individual difficulties in the very probable case of no-deal. I’d wait to see how unity amongst the 27 works then.
        It’s not surprising that the British government has had to deal with disagreement on Brexit, after all, the country is divided almost half and half on the issue, but when needed, Parliament has come through successfully: the European Communities Act 1972 has now been repealed by the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and a date for Brexit has been set in statute. Furthermore, all factions in Parliament have agreed that any separation of NI as proposed by the EU is not acceptable and won’t be accepted. What the government should also point out is that EU proposals on the border are illegal and contrary to the Belfast Agreement which the EU purports to be guarding.
        Despite disagreements, Britain is finding a common path to a difficult issue.

      • acorn
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

        Peter, EU number crunchers, are trying to discover how many UK Brexiteer MPs and their shadowy financiers, have applied for residence in an EU member state. You will know where to paste any data you have. 😉

        • libertarian
          Posted July 2, 2018 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

          acorn

          You are so funny, are you really that ignorant? You are trying to imply that they are jumping ship in order to retain EU rights when in fact anyone in possession of a brain cell knows that if you currently own a home or business in an EU country then it will be necessary to get the correct permits to stay… Why dont you add up how many Europeans are applying for residence in the UK too for balance

          • hans christian ivers
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

            Libertarian

            We make it personal again , you really have to learn to argue your points, without becoming insulting and personally involve people.

            I thought Professors had to be more objective mine were

    • bigneil
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:32 am | Permalink

      Adam, the EU still isn’t as rigid as the EU wants to be. 100% control over all what was, individual countries.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

        @bigneil: The 27 individual countries ARE the EU. Aka “the EUropean Council”, the ultimately detemining body.

    • Peter
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

      Civil service not best pleased with such a meeting, allegedly.

      Trump may also meet Brexiteers in private when he visits the UK. That would be interesting.

    • margaret howard
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

      Chaotic tangles? What – a la May’s cabinet? The 27 different nations conducting civilised discussions should be an example to England’s disunited power grabbers all after May’s job. Just as split as the country after the disastrous Brexit vote.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 3, 2018 at 6:39 am | Permalink

        Have you not noticed the power struggles going on in Spain Italy France Germany and Belgium recently?

        • margaret howard
          Posted July 3, 2018 at 10:33 am | Permalink

          Have you noticed they are between different countries rather than the same nation? None of them have, as far as I know, paid £1b danegeld to a disreputable party to keep themselves or their prime minister in power.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 3, 2018 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

            No I haven’t noticed that.
            I think most have a problem with policies on things like economics and immigration set by the EU Commission who refuse to compromise or deviate from their long term plan.
            PS
            The Ulster Unionists are are duly elected party who are not disreputable.
            Unless your definition is anyone who has policies you dislike.

  2. Mark B
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    They sat around and horse traded to little effect. But if any of those countries had truly been independent then they would be free to act in their own interests and not compromise.

    I am all for compromise unless it runs against certain core principles. But being in the EU forces compromise. That is why middle of the road political parties are much preferred – less hassle.

    So another can is kicked down the road. All the heads of government can now go back home and declare victory.

    Off topic

    I have not been following the World Cup but, and I never thought I would ever say this. Well done and congratulations to France on their victory.

    🙂

    • Hope
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

      Expect a proportion to come here, May is useless and will do anything for the EU to curry favour.

  3. Mike Stallard
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    Didn’t the ‘Council have a very few words – agreed on the spot – about Brexit too? I wonder what they said?

    • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      @Mike Stallard: They’re still hoping for a (realistic) Uk white paper to emerge one day.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:37 am | Permalink

        Having flatly rejected all previous proposals and having refused to even start talks on trade until after everything else is acceptable to them.
        Be honest Peter you surely realise now that the EU have no desire to do any kind of deal with the UK.

        • hans christian ivers
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

          According to David Davis, the Eu wants a deal as well.

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

          @Edward2: I Am being honest Edward2 – there have been no new proposals forthcoming, and the “revamped” old delusional papers were predicitably “dead on arrival”. I’ve earlier called this a lack of understanding by the UK. Remember that the purist brexiteers now in government deluded that they could do bilateral deals with Germany (cars) and Italy (proseco). Such an elementary lack of knowledge about the EU that it should really embarras all better informed UK politicians and public. If YOU are honest, you must confess that it was quite a sore sight.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:38 am | Permalink

            We are of course in the middle of the negotiations and a lot is being said but little is being agreed.
            I think a deal may happen at the very end but currently I think the EU have little desire for any kind of deal.
            It is disappointing because the EU will suffer if their trade with the UK declines.

          • libertarian
            Posted July 4, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

            PvL

            You do know that the UK leaving the EU has the same financial impact on the EU as if the 19 smallest members all left instead .

            I think the EU bluster is about to be exposed fully by Trump & the USA , its a shame our government lack the courage to lead and take the EU to task

        • margaret howard
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

          Edward, you would do well to remind yourself occasionally that it was Britain that voted Brexit, not the EU. When Britain begged to join the EU they had to fulfill certain criteria so now the same applies to leaving. As happens in all clubs there are other members to consider.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:33 am | Permalink

            True, but it is in the interests of the EU to also have a good relationship with the UK in terms of free trade and so on.
            There is already enough unemployment in EU nations without creating more.
            There are millions of jobs at stake in Europe too.

          • libertarian
            Posted July 4, 2018 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

            margaret

            You would do well to remind yourself that we have FULLY complied with the EU procedure on leaving the union ( its not a club) by triggering Article 50. Thats it, there is nothing else. Triggered , we leave within 2 years.

      • Helen Smith
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:35 am | Permalink

        The EU is not acting in accordance with its treaty obligations under Article 50, which are to negotiate future trade arrangements with a country that leaves under Article 50. It doesn’t need a white paper. The UK has put numerous suggestions forward and it refuses to negotiate. The UK should take it to court.

      • Woody
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

        By “realistic” I presume you mean bend over and hand over our money … that’s clearly what the eurocrats hope for … and better not get.

      • zorro
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

        The ‘realistic’ UK white paper you want is complete submission to the EU, contnued membership of SM/CU and vassal state staus – Go fly a kite!

        zorro

      • libertarian
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

        PvL

        White paper you say?

        This is it , its so simple that it throws the EU into confusion

        We would like a Free trade Agreement with the 27 , with mutual standards recognition. It really is that easy. EU has to answer yes or no.

        • hans christian ivers
          Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

          they have already answered no as an WTO agreement would most likely mean a frontier in NI, so you do not have to ask

          • Edward2
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

            But the UK has said they don’t want a border.
            So does the EU want one?
            If so they can build one
            Call it the Dublin Wall perhaps

          • libertarian
            Posted July 4, 2018 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

            hans

            Did you not understand even that most basic statement? Free Trade deal or WTO. If the EU has chosen WTO, thats fine by me, best result ever. What the EU does with its borders is nothing to do with us. The UK/Irish border will remain open as it has since 1923

    • acorn
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink
  4. Stred
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    The problem for the EU is that the IOM /UN rules that economic migrants should be accepted as refugees, as they are fleeing poverty. As the only places in the world with severe poverty are also doubling population and have millions who can pay for the boat trip, the EU is proposing to set up centres in Libya to assess migrants and issue permits. This means they will not have to risk drowning and will soon have free movement to satisfy the. The needs of big business. Nothing changes behind the presentation.

    • Richard
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

      Strong links have developed this decade beween the EU in Brussels and the IOM in Geneva, particularly the EU-IOM Strategic Cooperation Framework:
      http://facts4eu.org/news_feb_2017.shtml#how_eu_partners_with_pro_migrant_un_agency

      EU law & policies create additional practical obstacles to controlling non-EU immigration into the UK.
      As the academic Bruce Newsome recently said: “More than two-thirds of asylum applications to Britain from 2015 to 2017 involved claims of sexual persecution, which are impossible to deny, given that the ECJ has repeatedly ruled that asking questions is a violation of privacy..”

      • Stred
        Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:26 am | Permalink

        The link sets out exactly the IOM /EU policy of using migration to fill labour and skill shortages. Merkel was following EUU policy.

  5. Lifelogic.
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Indeed just a sticking plaster that resolves nothing.

    More idiotic Tory proposals to kill the private rented homes with three year minimum contracts (binding for the landlord only one assumes). As if the grossly unfair taxes were not too much already. Moronic socialist buggering up the market yet again to damage both tenants (with less availability) and landlords. Also damaging job mobility and the economy in general. May is clearly just as bad as tomb stone Ed Miliband. Of course a three year contract could take us into Corbyn then he would steel you property off you even further perhaps for ever. The message seems to be kick your tenants out now and sell up.

    • mickc
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:50 am | Permalink

      I entirely agree about the ridiculous proposals for rented residential property. The current system works reasonably well. These proposals will kill off private landlords, already started by the tax regime, and opens the way for any remaining private tenancies to be compulsorily converted to protected tenancies when Labour win the next election. We have a Red Tory government. …

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:52 am | Permalink

      This tenant policy is so bad it’s unbelievable for all the reason that Lifelogic says.

      The rental market is already skewed in favour of tenants. When I let two properties a few years ago both sets of tenants decided not to pay their rents. I had mortgages to pay on both properties. Court action takes ages and you never get your money back. In the end I sold the properties.

      Letting property is the about only viable investment left, now Theresa May wants to destroy that.

      There is a simple way for a tenant to keep their home. Pay your rent on time without question, don’t do anything bad to the property or your neighbours. That is all a landlord would want from tenants.

      Every policy Theresa May announces is more left wing than Brown and Blair. She has not brought in a single conservative policy since she has been Prime Minister.

      So far we have had feeble Brexit negotiations, getting angry with Trump over a tweet, not getting angry with France and Germany for actively trying to divide, first Scotland then Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom.

      Theresa May is introducing ever rising taxation, energy caps which are proven never to work, constant attacks on businesses such as naming and shaming them for the so called “gender” pay cap. She has limited stop and search because she think Police officers are racist, the net result of which has been an increase in street crime and more black people murdered. She want to give £20 billion a year extra to the NHS, which most people can guess is unlikely to bring much of an improvement in service.

      Today she is saying: “the Brexit vote was also a judgement on how our economy and society works for people.” What nonsense! It was a vote to leave the EU lock, stock and barrel.

      Please Conservative MPs you must realise that she is a socialist cuckoo in your Tory nest.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:57 am | Permalink

      LL, yep the minimum contract length will further distort the rental market. If the market were suitably competitive then some landlords w would be differentiating and offering longer contracts, but with limited supply this isn’t happening. The limited supply comes from (a) the conditions of the market itself, (b) landlords reticent to offer longer contracts due to (i) asset price increases and (ii) tenant behaviour, (a) and (bi) flow from the shortage of new housing stock which as Letwin’s report notes is due to developers controlling the build completion rate such that house prices are not affected. This is where the market failure is and, in the same way that OPEC need to pump more barrels, developers need to complete more builds. Correcting this failure is what is needed.

      From a macroeconomic perspective, shifting more residents into rental and out of home ownership is important due to financial cycle and debt overhangs. In countries with higher proportions of ownership the financial cycle is longer, those with lower (e.g. Germany) it is shorter. If there is not a shift back to rental then UK will have to rely on macroprudential policies.

      So fixing the build completion rate is key, which relates to the structure of the developer market, if there is intervention this is where it is needed.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      Yes, this is daft.
      Landlords are loaning their assets to people and it should be between the landlord and tenant to agree terms. When you don’t need the house and the tenants are good there is no need to move them on. If they don’t pay or make a nuisance of themselves 12 months is plenty of time to have to put up with that.
      Most tenants here don’t want more commitment than 6-12 months so there is no way they will generally sign up for a 3 year commitment. If they want a long term commitment mortgages are cheaper.
      The end game of course is confiscation of your house for an indefinite period with rent controls leaving you with a paltry rent. Another sell signal for houses.

      • jerry
        Posted July 2, 2018 at 7:37 am | Permalink

        @SJS et al; “The end game of course is confiscation of your house for an indefinite period with rent controls leaving you with a paltry rent.

        That might well be the intended end game, if so, good!

        But for those landlords investors who don’t like such T&Cs being imposed, what are they going to do, sit on unoccupied properties (which will likely be the next hosing problem targeted, via CT) or sell up, releasing properties to market causing a much needed deflationary trend in to the market.

        Government’s, should, govern for the majority, not the minority. Investors can invest in other ‘opportunities’ someone needing a Home to live in do not have such luxury – of course the State, most likely the next government admittedly, could simply build a few million low rent social homes as they did in from 1945, thus sorting out the many problems with our housing market…

    • Hope
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      May copied and gold plate his policies and ideas! May stated in parliament to him that should would build on what he done! The same person Cameron and Osborne called Red Ed and used as a threat with Sturgeon in their election bid!

      Do not forget it was the pro EU fantatic left wing liberals in the Tory party who got May elected to PM, Clarke, Soubry, Grive Hammond, Green Woolaston etc. perhaps why no action against them for acting against govt policy.

    • Stred
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:36 am | Permalink

      This applies now in Scotland. Friends could only get their trashed house back when the tenant left after other problems. It works in Germany and other countries where tenants abide by contracts and maintain property as let. A German landlord with property here told my agent that he could not believe the difference between German tenants and British. They may be trying to winkle out landlords for the CGT.

  6. sm
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    A friend is a senior captain in one of the world’s largest container shipping companies. I have just learned that even cargo ships have a legal obligation to rescue those ‘in peril from the sea’, and that therefore one of their vessels dallied in the Mediterranean for some time until given permission to land 100s of migrants in Sicily in the past week.

  7. formula57
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    “Italy got language in about exploring how migrant centres could be set up outside the EU to process applications” – and given confidence in Mrs. May’s capabilities, might we ask how many such centres she has agreed to host in the UK?

  8. DUNCAN
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    I would like to know why the Tories who recognised back in 1998 that Blair and his cronies intended to change the rules on immigration into the UK from both EU and non-EU sources remained silence?

    Blair took the issue of mass immigration, weaponised it, politicised it and then used it to change the ethnic nature of the SE and other major conurbations for electoral advantage. The Democrats in the US use Mexican immigration for the same purposes. Both parties use people as little more than political capital and represents another pillar of their client state political strategy

    The Tories appear unable to counter the slander of racism. They need to understand that this is not an issue of race and ethnicity but an issue of politics. Labour abuse these people for electoral gain and indeed as a propaganda in their continual race card attacks on anyone who dare question mass immigration

    My party’s failed on so many issues but on this they have been catastrophic.

    I want my party to stop ducking contentious issues. It is unfortunate we have a leader and a PM who is obsessed with detoxifying the Tory party. We are constantly responding to Labour’s slanders and dancing to their tune. it’s pathetic.

    The silent majority want controlled borders. They’re not racist, they’re realists. It is unfortunate that we have a PM who would prefer to remain silent on important matters like this.

    • Hope
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

      In 2003 the govt service provider claimed at a meeting it was not known the number of people entering our country but the public services were so overwhelmed in the south east the govt, New Labour, wanted to distribute the people around the country.

      May has lost hundreds of thousands under her as HS and Rudd this year lost 56,000. How do these people work, where do they live, get health care, school? This on top of historic record immigration figures which are three times lower than the NI numbers issued to EU nationals. Time for Tories to stop lying, covering up and hiding the truth from the public. Tories taxing us more than for forty years. More than the last Labour govt, despite Osborne stating 80 percent cuts 20 percent tax rises. Another false Tory claim. JRM states tax is at 37-38 percent. Record high 40 percent since 1970. Unfunded spending spree announced by May to hike taxes again for NHS without any regard or costing of immigration or illegal immigration. We all had 5.6 percent tax hikes to council tax plus add ons covered by other budgets! We cannot afford May in office.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

        The media are now stating that the population could be over 66 million.
        Several years ago leading supermarkets using data on rises in food buying, rises in footfall and other sophisticated customer data said they thought there was a population of over 70 million.
        The problem with the current understating the population by government is that all decisions about planning necessary infrastructure is based on population numbers and growth projections.

        • miami.mode
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

          E2. Supermarkets are the ideal place to gather data, but they would want specific details kept secret.

        • hefner
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

          Not specifically for you, Edward, but maybe for some on this blog: can you stand in front of a mirror, look at yourself and repeat three times:I was dumb as a brush when some years ago I opposed the possibility of identity card (and this in the UK, the country on the west of the European continent with the highest density of cameras).

          • Edward2
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

            Yes ID cards might help
            But in the EU where such cards are the norm, there are still hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants

          • hefner
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

            But without an ID and a residence permit, they cannot claim any benefit.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

            But no deportation.
            So it has little practical impact.
            In the UK you need some form of ID and an NI card to aid the access to welfare.

          • libertarian
            Posted July 4, 2018 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

            hefner

            You can’t claim benefits in the UK without an NI number/ID

            Heres the relevant bit from DWP website

            Proof of identity – Such as a birth certificate, marriage or civil partnership certificate,passport, medical card, driving licence, UK residence permit, ID Card (Resident permit), EEC identity card or recent gas or
            electricity bill. We may ask to see several of these documents for each person.

      • Mark B
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

        Hope.

        We cannot afford their generosity.

    • Dr GP
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

      It’s very easy to deal with it.

      Just 4 rules.

      1. No criminals.

      ……………………………..
      2. No discrimination.

      Same rules for Irish, Germans, Romanians Chinese, US, Australians

      Same rules if you are gay straight, trans, asexual,

      Ditto for black white, yellow …

      Ditto for male female, young old.

      3. No recourse to public funds.

      That means no recourse to other tax payer’s money. You have to pay in full for all your state services. No welfare, 3K a year for the NHS. 7.5K a year for your child’s education. 2.5K a year for common goods. ….12K a year in total.

      4. No cap.

      The only one that people will complain about is the no recourse to public funds. So I suggest a crowd funding site also be set up. People get to select a migrant who doesn’t meet the test and they can sponsor them, putting their money at risk. They have to make up the short fall, they have to pay for the cost of any investigation and cost of jailing them, deporting them if they break the rules.

      At its heart its a question of consent. Not that MPs consider consent. They want others to be forced to pay.

      • Peter
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:47 am | Permalink

        It’s a lot easier than that:-

        1. The country decides who to let in. End of.

        No pandering to special interests.

        Choice is now demonised as ‘discrimination’ by the ‘no borders’ madmen.

      • Andy
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

        Would this apply to people already here? Seeing that many pensioners take out far more than they have ever put in.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 2, 2018 at 11:44 am | Permalink

          Have pity on the poor and old Andy.
          Not everyone can be as lucky as you.
          Some have poor health or disabilities from birth.
          Some work hard in low paid jobs all their lives.

          What kind of dreadful society are you looking for?

    • jerry
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

      @Duncan; “I would like to know why the Tories who recognised back in 1998 that Blair and his cronies intended to change the rules on immigration into the UK from both EU and non-EU sources remained silence?”

      They didn’t remain silent on those issue back in 1998, the problem was the turf war that was still going on in the Tory party at the time, thus the more reasoned opinions within the party were constituently getting drowned out by the more shrill voices (and picked up upon by the tabloid MSM, as is the norm), which in turn simply made Blair stronger as his “Honeymoon” period became ever-more extended in the public’s eyes.

  9. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    So let’s all hope that Trump won’t wreck the WTO !
    In “conservativehome”I read:
    ” a Brexit Britain left clinging to the wreckage of the World Trade Organisation” (taken only a little out of context 🙂 )

    • Col Bellion
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:01 am | Permalink

      Mr Redwood has urged us to leave the EU and put our faith in the WTO at the very time that the WTO is being destroyed.

      R eply No its not, and your EU believes in it and relies on it

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

        @Col Bellion: The EU will continue to rely on the WTO, AN extra for the UK would be a FTA, possibly like Canada’s CETA. The UK-post-future-Brexit won’t get much closer to the EU without crossing its sacred (?) red lines.

        • jerry
          Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:18 am | Permalink

          The WTO is not being wrecked, it’s the non WTO trade deals that are under pressure from President Trump, don’t believe all you read in the centrist (Fake news) MSM!

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

        And according to numerous articles in its own treaties the EU believes in the further liberalisation of world trade, as previously detailed here:

        http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/08/30/mr-draghi-wants-more-free-trade-so-why-not-accept-the-uk-offer/#comment-886295

        But not with any country which dares to decide to leave the EU, then the EU will seek to disrupt the existing trade.

        That is the unscrupulously hypocritical way that the EU system works.

    • libertarian
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

      PvL & Col Bellion

      The EU has suddenly discover the usefulness of the WTO, to help then counter Trumps Tarriff rate rise and to save face when UK leaves the EU

      Truly the EU leadership is total incompetent and inept

      They are now in big trouble as the German Car industry is in meltdown over all this

      ps Only a deluded remainer can look at the growth of the WTO and conclude its being destroyed… Lol dream on

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

        conclusions without source or reason and unnecessary why of arguing your pointes of view, I am sure the professor can do better than that

    • Fishknife
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      Help! I fail to understand how the EU can impose “retaliatory tariffs” without themselves being in contravention of WTO rules.
      (Which they now vigorously support)
      Were I Trump I’d be unhappy at subsidising the EU so it could discriminate against my exports.
      It’s time Europe paid its way and Germany and France stopped sponging off the world.

    • acorn
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

      CFR’s Edward Alden has called Trump’s willingness to bypass the WTO the death of the institution.

      “The appeals system is also under pressure. The Obama administration drew criticism from many members for a May 2016 decision to block the reappointment of a South Korean judge to the WTO’s Appellate Body, the first time any country blocked the appointment of a judge from another country. Trump has continued to block new appointments, leaving three judgeships out of seven vacant and hobbling much of the court’s work.”

      The EU; USA and China, can shut down the WTO anytime they want.

    • Triggered
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

      Trump believes the WTO is not working properly or at least not as satisfactorily as America itself would like. He has quoted aspects of non-compliance by China which he says the WTO failed to remedy.
      Trump invariably has a microphone when he speaks but few people hear what he actually says. I think their ears probably function correctly as units. But something seems to have disrupted their individual and collective word and thought processing activity. Perhaps they are on medication …on a special licence of sorts. At least they won’t have fits, possibly.

  10. Lifelogic.
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    Two good pieces in the Telegraph Today. Heffer:- Why the Cabinet must not give in to the deluded obsessives in Brussels and Hannan:- Time for an Anglosphere free trade area.

    Indeed it would hugely benefit the Angloshere and the World.

    • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:14 am | Permalink

      @Lifelogic: Hannan’s well known ideals would get you close to a free for all jungle. It might turn into a desert.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:09 am | Permalink

        I’ve read Hannan’s articles and “free for all” law of the “jungle” are not his views.
        He would use WTO rules and he likes tariff free frictionless trade.

      • Nig l
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

        By realistic, I presume bailing out your budgets ad infinitude?

      • Nig l
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

        As opposed to your financial desert in Greece and Italy etc. Your reply confirms that your mind is closed. There is only one project, long live the project. To hell with the millions of unemployed, especially under 25s, people’s bank accounts raided, bond holders savaged, note not governments, pensions. Social security cuts, etc, the project must go on just like the ludicrous bandwagon that moves the EU every six months to assuage national feelings.

        The latest discussions and so called agreement, in reality meaning little of substance, just to keep Mutti in power shows how risible that project is.

        I might not always agree with Dan Hannah but at least he is prepared to explore and offer alternatives. You are stuck in the post war time warp of your founding fathers.

  11. Denis Cooper
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Oh, right, so then they won’t mind relying on WTO arbitration panels:

    https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/disp2_e.htm

    to help resolve any trade disputes which may arise with the UK once we have left the EU and thereby resumed control of our trade policy, as Theresa May unequivocally promised in her Lancaster House speech of January 17th 2017:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

    Rather than this brazen nonsense about continuing to submit to decisions of their EU federal supreme court, as if we had only gained some kind of dominion status:

    https://brexitcentral.com/dominion-status-or-independence-from-eu/

    So, for example, if Irish customs notified UK customs in Northern Ireland that certain goods being brought across the land border into the Republic did not meet EU Single Market requirements, as we had solemnly promised they all would:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/06/30/the-eu-council-decisions/#comment-943742

    but there was some arcane dispute about the correct interpretation of the rules then the final decision on that could be referred to a neutral arbitration panel convened up by the WTO, rather than to the EU’s own court.

    However I think it would be best for the EU and the UK to agree that they will always stop sending across any disputed stuff in the interim while awaiting the outcome of an appeal to the WTO.

    After all we wouldn’t want people in the EU to be forced to eat the same nasty, properly disinfected, chicken that the Americans have to endure, would we.

  12. hans christian ivers
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    John,

    WHat is your view on rTump saying he wants to leave the WTO?

    • libertarian
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

      hans

      Another Trump “dead cat” …. Everyone falls for it every time.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted July 2, 2018 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

        just like the steel tariffs

        • Edward2
          Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

          Only fair considering the dumping of underpriced steel flooding into America from China and some EU countries.

        • libertarian
          Posted July 4, 2018 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

          hans

          Nope NOT like the steel tariffs , the EU cars tariffs are like the steel tariffs , USA leaving WTO is the dead cat…. Blimey mate

  13. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Well you can see why Mrs May feels at home in this “kicking the can down the road” environment.
    We’ll need somebody altogether more forthright and decisive at the helm.

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted July 2, 2018 at 5:28 am | Permalink

      Dear Sir–I wonder how many people, like me, saw that Mrs May had written an article in the Torygraph and, as ever lately, simply couldn’t be bothered even to start reading it. Bit odd I agree but I have no interest in what she has to say and pretty much never had. She is vapid and the opposite of the inspirational convincing leader we need. It is completely obvious that Boris should take over.

      • rose
        Posted July 3, 2018 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

        Alan Duncan said on Friday night on AQ – and he loathes Boris – that the strength of character shown by Boris was absolutely seminal in procuring a 4-1 vote at the conference of OPCW. He also said the coalition Boris got up after Salisbury was the greatest diplomatic response in living memory. Couldn’t we do with a bit of that leadership and dynamism in no 10? No wonder the media are terrified of him and try at every opportunity to traduce and destroy him.

  14. Peter
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Victor Orban has little interest in talking shops. He just states that Hungary is not taking any asylum seekers and outs measures in place to ensure that is the case.

    Elsewhere new parties arise in reaction to Merkel’s disastrous encouragement of the Third World to migrate to Europe.

    I don’t really think the EU statements about WTO matter too much.

    Of more consequence for us is whether the Conservative party can prevent Mrs. May from selling out on the delivery of a genuine Brexit.

    • Helen Smith
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:43 am | Permalink

      If May does, then Labour, which has sat on the fence mostly, would come out for a proper Brexit, sweep into power, I would vote for them for the first time ever if it meant leaving the SM, and the Tories would cease to exist in their current form. Win/win.

    • Chris
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

      In response to your last sentence, the Cons party apparently does not have the guts or the integrity to prevent Theresa May from selling out, and neither does it have the wish to prevent her. So much for the claim that the majority of Cons MPs are Eurosceptic, something that was said early on. Nothing could be further from the truth, apparently.

  15. alexP
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    We all know by now that JR would like nothing better than to see the EU completely wrecked–it is not good enough that we leave but to pull the whole place down would be much much better..well we won’t have long to wait because from what I hear Trump is determined to do just that – to pull down the whole WTO NATO EU and the UN as well..his meeting with Putin this week has got to be more than ominous..the meeting between John Bolton and IDS with side kick Rees-Mogg and some of the other right wing think tank group says more..it says that all order and decency is about to go out the window..some in that group think that anything would be better than having Corbyn in government and of course that is where we are headed probably in a short space of time..it’s all about ‘myself before party’ and ‘my party before country’- who wouldn’t be totally dismayed and out of it with all of this muck going on

    Reply Don’t lie about me. I have always wished the EU well for states that like it.

    • zorro
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

      What utter nonsense! I think that you are slightly over-reacting. Anyway, I thought that your EU with its ‘four freedoms’was invincible. I suppose that the EU and its fifth columnists shouldn’t have threatened the UK so much 🙂

      zorro

    • Original Richard
      Posted July 2, 2018 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

      As a leaver I have no wish at all to see the EU “completely wrecked” – not least because we already have enough economic migrants from the EU seeking jobs in the UK because of severe youth unemployment in the EU.

      The fact that Leave won the referendum shows that the Conservatives were completely justified in offering a referendum – not that this would be seen as a reason for those opposed to democracy.

  16. William Long
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    I wish I could be as confident as you that the EU really enthuses over the WTO, and these were not just empty words inserted at the end to make it appear that something positive had emerged.

  17. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Brokenshire acting like Cameron Mark 2 – “of course there will be a deal so we don’t need to prepare for no deal”

    Worrying.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:29 am | Permalink

      He’s staring down the rifle barrel from the wrong end. No doubt May the same.

      Worrying.

  18. Original Richard
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    I am hoping that the EU’s intransigence to negotiate a deal will mean that we revert to trading with the EU on WTO rules and terms.

    The existing arrangement is so unfair that we have an £80bn/year trading deficit with the EU.

    And for this “benefit” we pay a substantial membership fee when others pay nothing, must accept millions of people immigrating into the UK, and be forced to share our assets and our military.

    To quote someone else, it is time we stopped being the EU’s piggy bank.

    • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:28 am | Permalink

      @Original Richard: I suppose it must also be totally “unfair” that the UK exports far more services to the EU27 than vice versa?
      Productivity and competiveness may be better pointers to trade deficits.

      • David Price
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

        If the issue were productivity and competitiveness the EU would not prevent free trade with all and sundry, they wouldn’t have very high tariffs against products from elsewhere and they would have established free trade in services decades ago.

        The only reason for the EU is protectionism, pure and simple, and they will happily break their rules and everyone else’s if it suits them (HoneyGate, DieselGate etc), by “them” I am referring to the German and French establishments and their pilot fish.

      • Timaction
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

        As always talking nonsense Mr EU. The EU has no single market for services and have dragged their feet as it doesn’t help the Franco / German dominance of the evil empire. Very large deficit with both included for a huge fees. Besides what has it got to do with you???!

      • Peter Martin
        Posted July 2, 2018 at 7:10 am | Permalink

        Trade deficits/surpluses arise almost entirely through currency ‘manipulation’. Most of the world manipulates their currencies, in one way or another, (they’ll use the term ‘managed float’ for example) to suit their exporters and so run export surpluses.

        This means countries who let their exchange rates truly float, (UK,USA, Canada, Australia, NZ) will end up with a trade deficit most of the time. One country’s surplus is another country’s deficit. It has to be. It’s just arithmetic.

        And if an economy is losing money to pay for net imports it has to be replenished from somewhere to prevent it falling into recession. That means the government has to deficit spend or we have got to borrow too much ourselves.

      • Original Richard
        Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

        “Productivity and competiveness may be better pointers to trade deficits.”

        Or perhaps clever subsidies and the use of secret non-tariff barriers may be pointers to to trade deficits ?

        Or by breaking the Eurozone rules every year on trade surpluses ?

        Or making sure the rules work for Germany as for vacuum cleaners ?

        Or just simply the use of blatent fraud as with the diesel emissions cheating devices used to promote German diesel sales ?

  19. Chris
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Why is Theresa May writing about this in the Telegraph (revamping politics) when she cannot even engineer Brexit? A read of the comments section to this article shows exactly what readers think of Mrs May. She, and her followers, do not seem to realise the very shaky ground they are on. I urge Tory Brexiters to approach Mr Brady as this type of future spelt out by Mrs May (fudged Brexit and “new” politics) are going to lose her an election and cause immense damage to this country:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/30/mission-goes-beyond-brexit-comprehensively-renew-politics/#comments

  20. Ian wragg
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    So what’s been leaked of the coming white paper May wants a customs partnership where collect EU taxes. Free movement of goods and services overseen by the ECJ and free movement of EU workers. She is willing to let an unelected remainer civil servant lead the negotiations. This looks very much like remaining shackled to the rotting core of the EU with no actual representation.
    Indeed the word Vassal state covers it nicely.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

      I suspect that forthcoming White Paper on the UK’s negotiating objectives is really intended to provide an opportunity for Theresa May to get away with reneging on most of the negotiating objectives that she laid down on January 17th 2017 in her Lancaster House speech:

      https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

      “The government’s negotiating objectives for exiting the EU: PM speech”

      “Prime Minister Theresa May set out the Plan for Britain, including the 12 priorities that the UK government will use to negotiate Brexit.”

      That is why Remoaners are so keen that she should publish it even if there is no real need for it, and why they will be bitterly disappointed if she sticks with the principles she laid down then.

      Which is what Graham Brady has said she and others should do:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/06/28/the-eu-summit/#comment-943433

      but she probably won’t do.

    • Timaction
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

      I hope you are wrong as this will lead to civil disobedience and the Government loosing it’s mandate to rule. May must go with all her remaining a!!

    • Original Richard
      Posted July 2, 2018 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

      I hope you’re wrong because it won’t be a “White Paper” but a “white flag” Mrs. May will be issuing.

  21. ChrisS
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    The inexperienced and rather ignorant Varadkar rather let the cat out of the bag when this week he stated that “we’re 27 member states, the UK is one country, we’re 500m people, the UK is 60m.

    Everything to do with Brexit has been overshadowed by the EU’s arrogant attitude. It started with Merkel’s total humiliation of Cameron when she offered probably her best ally in the UK absolutely nothing. That effectively lost him the referendum before the campaign even started.

    Their arrogance has meant that from day one, the 27 have done nothing but attempt to bully us into accepting a form of Brexit which would leave us under the ECJ and compliant to all their single market rules and Customs Union. In other words, a form of Brexit that nobody would recognise as independent.

    We should be applying a “USA Test” to each and every proposal that emits from Brussels. In other words, would what is being proposed be acceptable to a US President , any US President, even one as ineffective as Obama ? If it would not be acceptable to the US, it should not be any more acceptable to a newly-independent United Kingdom.

    So far nothing suggested by Brussels would remotely be considered acceptable by the USA. In fact, I doubt whether the EU would even dare propose the US should sign up to what they expect us to agree to

    We only have one chance to get this right and it has to be the case that No deal is better than anything Brussels is going to allow. If we leave with no deal, there can be little doubt that the EU will soon be back with a different attitude, ready to make some sensible deals to allow trade to continue as before.

    Backbone and discipline is what what has been needed from our side to get a deal remotely acceptable to an independent UK. Unfortunately our Government has been disgracefully undermined at every turn by Remainers, even those within its own ranks.

  22. DUNCAN
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    The plan for decent, moral Tory MPs should be simple.

    One. Get the UK out of the EU by threatening this appalling PM with a leadership election

    Two. Once out of the EU, depose this insult to Conservatism and replace her with a Conservative who believes

    • Chris
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

      Hear, hear, Duncan.

  23. Monza 71
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    The 27 can’t agree on anything at the moment and, given the changed balance of forces in Brussels, particularly the greatly diminished Merkel, this is not going to change anytime soon.

    Our Government desperately needs to stand its ground and resist the demands coming at it from all sides to agree a deal, any deal. This particularly applies to the ludicrous postering from that idiot Varadkar.

    The Bavarian State Government, already Merkel’s most difficult coalition partner, must be seriously worried about a No Deal scenario. As the home of both BMW and Audi, Bayern probably stands to lose more jobs and GDP from No Deal than any other region in the EU. How long are they going to sit quietly and allow Merkel to be so uncooperative towards a trade deal with us ?

    May needs to stay firm and resist the poor kind of deal on offer. Self interest will soon cause the very wafer-thin united position of the 27 to fall apart in the face of a strong and determined stance for the UK team.

    Has she got the guts ?

  24. Nig l
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Interesting article in the Thunderer claiming May will face down rebels and impose her solution to Brexit being happy to take on a leadership challenge. On the basis she wanted to remain, that doesn’t fill me with confidence, albeit Finkelstein et al are in the softest exit possible camp so this could just be puff.

    Please continue to remind her what we voted for in the Tory mandate, and if she doesn’t follow that, we want a general election not some arcane process purely for Tory MPs who will vote on the basis of their own selfish needs, who will offer them jobs etc, rather than the wider electorate.

    • Peter
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

      Yes, there are similar stories elsewhere that she will defy any challenge. It may just be paper talk. We are not in a position to know.

      • zorro
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

        If she is challenged and properly tackled – she will run away….

        zorro

    • Mark B
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

      She knows that the Leavers are a small minority and do not have the stomach, let alone the support, to oust her, and both she and they know it.

      It will be BREXIT in name only or, EU-LITE.

  25. agricola
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Do not get carried away with any EU new found enthusiasm for the WTO. When the EU decides to drop it’s protectionist policy towards trade, I will begin to believe in their sincere interest in the WTO. At present I think that they would prefer to control it rather than work constructively with it.

    Marilyne Allbright on the re-emergence of the fascism she experienced in childhood was less than informative. Marr tried to get her to taint Trump with fascism, she declined the offer. Both failed to point out that fascism and lesser forms of nationalism are symptomatic of the politicians in power to deal with the very real concerns of the people. Hitler rose out of the failure of Versailles. Franco gained power in Spain with the help of Hitler and Mussolini because the democratically elected left proved incapable of fulfilling the desires of those who elected them. Current dissent across the EU is a direct result of the failure of it’s unelected politicians to pay attention to the concerns of it’s people.,or acknowledge democracy.

    Marr ended with the head of the NHS advocating the confiscation of personal assets to pay for end of life care. This encourages a very devious life to hide assets, but puts no responsibility on the feckless who being asset free get it for nothing ,so completing the pattern of their lives. Unadulterated socialism.

    • Stred
      Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      Stevens also pushed the line that the NHS is working on the event of a no deal, in case the EU suddenly decides to ban the export of medicines and equipment to the UK and insists that nurses and doctors return to their EU homeland. To have such a deluded soul running our biggest employer is worrying.

      He also said that the NHS is 30%more cheaper than the German health service, forgetting that it provides outcomes 100% worse.

  26. LenD
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    There is nothing there to say the EU wants to work with the UK or any other government through the WTO..how will it be then when Trump tears down the structure of WTO..it’ll be back to yhe 1930’s and everyone for himself..and we know where that led

  27. Malcolm Edward
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    I look forward to the day when we have a PM who actively supports dealing with the EU on WTO terms. No divided loyalties. No muddle.

  28. Dioclese
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    If Italy is serious about reducing the number of migrants entering their country, then the answer is simple. Stop the boats landing in Italy as they did recently.

    The migrants don’t want to stay in Italy, so diverting them to other EU countries isn’t going to result in mass land crossings into Italy…

  29. Prigger
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    “NHS planning ‘extensively’ for no-deal Brexit” ~The Grand Duchy of the BBC

    Let’s hope they and the NHS are totally relocating to the EU. Hilary Clinton and Obama did extensive analysis in regard to US health care and she stated the conclusion as being “We can’t afford a British style National Health Service”

    So, it is a fair conclusion if the NHS attempts landing on the Continent they will be met by a barrage from coastal big guns and strafing by the European Defence Air Force unless the EU can persuade Mrs May that continuing to pay for NHS waste and incompetence is part of the Brexit Deal. She’ll probably agree.

  30. HarveyG
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    It’s good to hear that the EU will work closely with UK through the WTO when we leave..we need this confirmation now that rumours abound that President Trump is about to introduce tariffs and sanctions that contravene it’s rules..we don’t want to be seen as being on the wrong side of history with this one

  31. Blue and Gold
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Should have read…….. ‘ UK political history’.

  32. Denis Cooper
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Off-topic, it is a great pity that during his interview with Andrew Marr this morning the minister James Brokenshire forgot to mention a few salient points …

    1. The government should be taking into account the needs of all UK businesses, not just the 6% or so of UK businesses which export some of their product to the EU.

    2. The government should be thinking about the UK economy as a whole, not just the 12% of GDP which is exported to the EU, and it should certainly not allow the minute tail of 0.1% of UK GDP which is driven across the Irish land border to wag the rest.

    3. The government should have listened to EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier back in
    2012 when he reported that creation of the EU Single Market had added about 2% to the collective GDP of the EU member states, and noted the conclusion made in another study that the UK has gained only about half of that average, about 1%; while the UK economy has not collapsed since we voted to leave the EU, as some had predicted, but has grown naturally by about three times that one-off benefit of the EU Single Market.

    4. The government should recognise that the UK economy is dynamic and responds well to changes whatever their origins, and even if some companies exporting to the EU do suffer some degree of hurt from changes involved in Brexit any consequent job losses will be dwarfed by the natural employment “churn” in the economy.

    5. The government should make it clear that just because we are leaving the EU that does not mean that all of a sudden we will have to start inspecting goods coming in from the EU which we have not been inspecting for the past quarter century, and there is no need for us to start recruiting large numbers of additional customs officers.

  33. Chris
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood, you keep referring to us “leaving” the EU. We are not going to with Theresa May’s fudge. “According to the Sunday Times, Theresa May is set to warn Brexiteer MPs that they will have to remove her from office if they want to stop the Government pursuing a Norway-style Brexit deal that will keep Britain closely aligned to EU Single Market rules and regulations on goods”. The question from those who won the Referendum and voted to Leave is What are the principled Tory Brexiter MPs going to do about it? Are you going to uphold democracy against all the efforts of the Remainers (including our PM apparently), much of the media, and the EU itself to destroy democracy? You have been given this opportunity by Theresa May to do something. Take it, please.

  34. mancunius
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Merkel’s desperate claim that she has made bilateral agreements is collapsing in ruins: after the Cezch Republic and Hungary denied yesterday having made any agreement with Germany, now Poland has joined its voice to theirs. Macron has already refused to take back any refugees from Germany – ‘as France is not a country of first refuge’; Kurz in Austria has refused point blank: Italy will certainly not take back any refugees from Germany.
    The migrant camps are a will o’the wisp – the EU’s vague intention is to bully Bulgaria and a couple of other countries on the eastern perimeter into agreeing to build a few camps in return for a) a money bribe, that will go straight into the politicians’ pockets and b) as a quid pro quo agreeing to fast-track Bulgaria into the euro and grant EU membership to Macedonia etc. overlooking their lack of convergence.
    Ah – but this is the EU, the ‘rule-based system’ that Verhoftsadt and Barnier are constantly bragging about.

    • mancunius
      Posted July 1, 2018 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

      Germany’s made idea of getting Tunisia to build migrant camps was quickly shot down when it was pointed out there are more economic migrants from Tunisia than from anywhere else.

      • mancunius
        Posted July 1, 2018 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

        ‘mad’ not ‘made’

  35. ian
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Looks like most of the right wing of the Tory party will be wiped out soon.

  36. HardyB
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    With IDS comments this morning on Sunday Politics..he’s still holding out for some kind of bespoke arrangement with them that will allow us to have whatever trade we like but also trade with the rest of the world at the same time.. outside of all EU norms..well it’s all wishful thinking and even if Mrs May agrees to put this or something like it forward as a proposal..well it will be a complete waste of time..remember the quotes from IDS a few years ago about how the Bavarian car workers would put pressure on Mrs Merkel..well it hasn’t quite worked out like that..nor has M Gove promises that the French wine industry would come to our help..so it’s all pie in the sky..the EU is first of all a political bloc and at the moment very cross with IDS, Gove and the others who have brought Britain to this impasse..so continuing on with silly talk about how they are going to respond in a positive way to reasonable solutions that are based on pluck it out of the air is just that..all pie in the sky and a complete waste of time.

  37. Bible Prophecy
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    I am sure within time independent nations who also break from the EU will become our trading allies and bulwark against EU hegemony. This is what our secret services should be doing. Forget working to please the Americans, we should be working to form anti EU alliances behind the scenes so we have leverage. IO

  38. Bible Prophecy
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    We will end up a pariah nation like Russia if we don’t play ball with the globalists. People need to start waking up fast and finding us leverage. I can assure you saving Europe from terrorism is not leverage. As its all faked. Theresa May is getting very bad advice OR just posturing for our benefit and its all theater.

  39. hefner
    Posted July 1, 2018 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    It was so good to read in the Sydney Morning Herald (Australia) that John Bolton met IDS, B. Jenkins, W.Cash and others in the ERG to discuss the future US-UK trade deal that President Trump is keen on signing two years after the UK leaves the EU. Unfortunately the PM had not been able to make herself available for such a meeting. A missed opportunity?

  40. robert lewy
    Posted July 2, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    I ponder on how the EU now regard prospects for BREXIT.

    They can clearly see the weakness of the UK Government beset by intra Party dissension.
    This clearly gives them ample opportunity with the help of Remainers to discourage or dilute BREXIT even to the extent of demanding a continuing Tribute to the EU.

    However, the divisions within the UK possibly suggest a different outcome.

    If a Bad Deal is offered to the UK TM will be unable to “sell” this to Leavers in her cabinet and I feel that they would be prepared to bring the Government down with a no confidence motion. However, in such circumstances even TM would likely lean towards a WTO outcome

    If a bland BREXIT is offered which was acceptable to Remainers but not Leavers in the Cabinet, again TM would risk the wrath of Leavers in the cabinet and Labour MPs in Leaver constituencies with possible defeat in Parliament. If TM failed to achieve Parliamentary support any attempt to force this bland BREXIT through would likely lead to Leavers in the cabinet bringing the country down.

    This leaves the possibility that the EU may actually offer the UK a Free Trade Deal which would satisfy both Remainers and Leavers in the cabinet even if it involved a continuing contribution to the EU.

    So for the EU its Free Trade or WTO plus Enemy Cubayn.

  41. con
    Posted July 3, 2018 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    In a WTO environment instead of free trade, the cost of average tariffs to the EU would be around £11 billion based on £240 billion exports to the EU.
    The cost to the UK would be £27.5 billion based on £550 billion imports from the EU.
    Suddenly one can see why the EU is demanding its pound of flesh for a free trade deal. It would be worth a net £18.5 billion to the UK. About the same as our gross payments to the EU.
    Am I right or have I missed something?

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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