Brexit An uncivil war

I watched this C4 film on Monday evening. It was a typical Remain influenced take on the referendum, and a missed opportunity to say something new about the campaigns.

The whole film was skewed to exploring the Leave campaign rather than the Remain campaign. I mainly watched it to see more of the background to Remain but was disappointed. The movie did not even include George Osborne in it, yet he was arguably the most influential Remain campaigner. Remain went mainly on Treasury matters and used endless amounts of UK Treasury and international finance materials. Peter Mandelson was only referred to in passing in the film though he too seemed to have a big role. There was no exploration of why the punishment budget did not work or how they came to run such irresponsibly false forecasts as they did for the short term period after a Leave vote.

There was no discussion of Project Fear or of why people did not believe the wildly wrong forecasts of a worse future. The Remain campaign was seen as the work of just one man, Craig Oliver. I don’t know whether he will like his representation or whether the most revealing scenes of him and the campaign even happened.

We saw him inspecting the Remain headquarters at set up time and telling them if they did not meet his requirements he could run it out of Number 10. There was no discussion of whether this was appropriate or legal. We did not see them planning to send a leaflet at taxpayers expense just before the campaign proper began, seeking to use the power of government and the idea that this propaganda sheet was in some way the truth as a means of closing down debate.

We saw Mr Oliver shouting and swearing down the phone to the BBC, complaining that they were giving equal airtime to Leave when he was fielding “Nobel prize winners” for the news. This scene represented the Remain idea that the establishment had more right to a say and a vote than anyone else, and expressed the huge Remain frustration that the BBC and electorate were not being more deferential to the galaxy of establishment people they had lined up to endorse Remain. We saw no scenes of how all these people were approached and used. It would have been good to have seen how for example the President of the USA was persuaded to say “back of the queue” which became a famous moment.

We saw Mr Oliver completely lose his temper with a focus group when the members of it continued to resist the very clear establishment messages he had been sending out. In an unprofessional moment he broke into the room, took over the conversation and hectored the people present to accept his view of the position. Some of them pushed back hard, showing how Leave voters simply did not believe the establishment dodgy forecasts and resented the hectoring tone Remain adopted throughout.

The message of the film if it had one at all was that clever ways of using digital technology to contact voters won it for Leave. There was no consideration of the possibility that a large number of UK voters voted to take back control because that is exactly what they want to do. The popular wish for a proper democracy and the wish to be independent again somehow escaped the attention of this movie. It was like many other media commentaries patronising about Leave voters.

It had plenty of inaccuracies. It had Sir William Cash on the Vote Leave Board when he was not a member nor at the meeting featured. The representation of Sir Bernard Jenkin was very inaccurate.

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217 Comments

  1. Stephen Priest
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:20 am | Permalink

    Thank you. You bravely watch it so we didn’t have to.

    • Peter
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

      I did not watch it either. I was more interested in the government defeat in parliament yesterday and its possible impact on a clean Brexit.

      Conservative Home discusses this at length today – but nothing is particularly clear.

      Bercow also had an impact today – as widely anticipated – by allowing Remainers the chance for even more amendments.

      • Hope
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

        JR, parliament has sunk to a new low. It is difficult to understand why about 20 of your remain fanatic colleagues are not deselected and forced to undertake a by election.

        I have a clear conscience and I am glad I did not vote for either main party.

        It is now very clear a lot MPs are adamant to defy the public vote to leave the EU. None of these have any honour and should resign. That will not happen, so what do you suggest? Lose the vote next week and call an election for April so we leave on no deal?

        All those who wish to be elected state unequivocally whether they are remain or leave. There are so many lairs who stood to be elected on a false premise that they should never hold office again. It is a swamp that needs clearing. I truly hope civil unrest breaks out towards Politicians. They deserve it.

  2. Mark B
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    Did not watch it so cannot comment.

    History will show that the people of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, when asked in a referendum whether or not they chose to either, Remain members of the EU or, Leave the EU, chose to Leave. History will also remember that the political class and the establishment when faced with the answer they did not like, worked their socks off to nullify our decision.

    Some people are just sore losers.

    • margaret howard
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:58 am | Permalink

      Where does that leave the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland who voted overwhelmingly to Remain? What provision do you think should be made for them?

      • Edward2
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

        The referendum was for the whole of the UK
        Last time I checked that included both Scotland and Wales

        • Hope
          Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

          England never gets a say on anything despite overwhelmingly being the biggest cash cow for the U.K. Parliament. Where is our parliament?

        • Edward2
          Posted January 10, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

          And Northern Ireland

      • Mark B
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

        Margaret

        It was a UK wide referendum. If you are so concerned about the rights of individual nations within our Union being properly represented, you will join our kind host, JoolsB, Old Albion and and many others in demanding that England has its own parliament and voice. But people like you lack both the morality of their beliefs plus, the logic to go with them.

      • rose
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

        Bristol voted to remain. London voted to remain. Oxford and Cambridge voted to remain. But the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland voted to leave.

      • rose
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

        PS Scotland was reluctant to remain in 1975, but she did remain.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

        The provision laid down in the Act ordering the referendum.

      • Beecee
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

        Kill the Barnett Formula and let them go their own way.

        NI will become Leave whilst Scotland will be bankrupt without the English taxpayer bailing it out.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

        Margaret

        The UK population voted as a whole, not on an individual basis.

        If Scotland want to stay in the EU that is up to them to organise a referendum for independence, then if they win, I guess they can do exactly that, in the meantime they still take huge sums of cash from our UK Parliament to help fund the services they are responsible for.

        Likewise Northern Ireland, I think in fact it has already been agreed that when the majority in Northern Ireland want a united Ireland that wish will be granted, but again I guess the cash from the UK will stop.

        That reminds me, I remember when Ken Livingstone was Mayor of London he wanted London to be declared a Nuclear Free Zone in the event of War, such was his delusion.

        When you are a sovereign Country you can have as many choices as you want on so many things, (subject to being in Government of course), that’s why so many of us wanted to leave, so our Government can make our own choices, free from foreign control.

        Why not support that aim ?

      • Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

        Perhaps you might enlighten us as to how you would have seen Leavers in Wales, say, being ”provided for” had Remain won.
        Your insight would be welcome. Remainers never attempt to shore up their argument in favour of their much-revered EU, never seek to praise and defend its values, never try to explain to those of us who are committed Brexiteers WHY you feel the way you do and WHY the EU is a Jolly Good Thing.

        We’d listen. Go on, Ms Howard, do try.

      • Jagman84
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

        Scotland voted to remain in the UK and Northern Ireland are the most loyal and avid supporters of the Union. They were free to make their own choice in the EU referendum but have to abide by the will of the majority. Democracy is like that. Remainers are fully entitled to put forward their arguments but prefer to scaremonger. Maybe they struggle to find any benefits of the EU that cannot be replicated outside it and at zero cost.

      • Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        Free to opt for independence. If that’s what the majority in those countries now want.

      • acorn
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

        margaret, this Brexit episode has, at last, highlighted the simple fact that the so-called United Kingdom is anything but that. We have four nations, in a sort of federation, that basically can’t live together and would be better off separating.

        The obvious route would be for Scotland to be declared and internationally accepted in UN terms, as a separate independent sovereign state. I think the EU would absorb it painlessly as a member state, as long as it converted to the Euro currency.

        Is there anyone on this planet that doesn’t want to see a united Ireland; apart from a few religious fanatics that are propping up a Conservative party government in Great Britain?

        England and Wales voted Brexit which is a least something they have in common. To keep the Welsh on side, it would be simplest to replicate the Welsh Assembly in the other nine English regions to start with. This would allow the administrative-bureaucratic mess in the City State of Londen to be sorted.

        • Edward2
          Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

          You might think “they would be better off seperating” but Scotland did not actually vote to be independent and in Wales and Northen Ireland there is no real demand for a referendum on independence.
          Even the Republic of Ireland shows no real desire for one Ireland.
          But if they were all demand to go it alone that would be brilliant for England.
          England would save billions.

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

        Margaret. They can leave if they want to. At the moment they chose to be part of the UK. They know where their bread is buttered. They will have to just lump it. If you want to belong to the UK then accept what happens in the UK. If not, leave like we want to leave the EU.

      • Adam
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

        The provision to accept the decision of the UK majority.

      • Cerberus
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

        It was a UK-wide referendum. They are in the UK. If you go down the reductio ad absurdum argument route then all constituencies voting remain would stay in the EU. A ridiculous position.

      • Dennis
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

        Margaret – What provision should be made for the 4 million who voted for Farage and got 1 MP?

        • Dennis
          Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

          for UKIP…

      • libertarian
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

        margaret howard

        Oh dear , it leaves them in exactly the same place as anyone who voted UKIP, Green or Lib Dem in an election, virtually no representation. It leaves them were people who vote for Labour in an election , losers

        I know you want to live in a dictatorship but at least give learning how democracy works a try

      • John Hatfield
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

        It leaves them as still part of the United Kingdom, Margaret.

      • JoolsB
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

        “Where does that leave the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland who voted overwhelmingly to Remain? ”

        They voted as members of the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom voted to LEAVE.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

      Have you noticed that if any one Remainer in th media write about Brexit they alway suse insults

      Alex Massie in teh Spectator: “Brexit headbangers”

      • Mark B
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

        That’s a hate crime.

      • libertarian
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

        Stephen Priest

        Its because they have no arguments at all, there is no reason what so ever to belong to the EU, everything they think it gives them you can get by NOT being a member . That leaves them with scaremongering and abuse

        Just look at the posters on here to see how lacking in evidence yet full of vitriol they are , eh Andy

  3. Ronald Olden
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    The Remain side benefited from huge taxpayer, trade union, establishment and business funded propaganda, and the Leave side from privately funded indirect advertising.

    In neither instance were the costs attributed to the campaigns themselves. How on Earth can the front pages of the Sun Newspaper on Referendum Day not be included in one side’s advertising? And the Daily Mirror the other?

    With the exception of the Taxpayer funded Government Booklet however I don’t object to any of this. Money spent in election campaigns are always the tip of the iceberg in influencing people.

    But the sanctimonious rubbish we hear from some Remainers about minor irrelevant overspends on this and that, is ludicrous, especially in an election when people’s attitudes were so entrenched anyway.

    How stupid do they think the public are? I’ve never met, nor heard of, a single person who was influenced by the Leave campaign into voting Leave instead of Remain. Or even saw this bus with its’ slogans on it.

    I think John Redwood however, underestimates how big a contribution the Remain camp itself made towards provoking people who might not have voted at all into voting Leave.

    I’ve always maintained that Leave didn’t ‘win’ this Referendum. It was Remain that ‘lost’ it. And they haven’t learned a single thing since.

    How many of us want to be associated in our own minds with Gary Lineker, Eddie Izzard, Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Alastair Campbell etc etc etc. They’d do their own side a favour by hiding in a cupboard.

  4. Richard1
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:12 am | Permalink

    Yes that was my impression – remain propaganda. We did not hear Craig Oliver’s character say “we’ve got [nobel prize winners] predicting 1/2m extra unemployed, an immediate recession and a collapse in investment”, because of course these haven’t happened. There should also have been a seen where the remain campaign plans what to say. Perhaps it could have had them asking “can we think of anything positive to say about the euro/schengen/free movement/the CAP/CFP/ diesel + wind energy policy/ federal direction of the EU etc”. Then perhaps Craig Oliver could have been got to say “no that won’t work there’s nothing positive to say on those, we will stick to predicting a recession and maybe WW3 if the stupid plebs vote to leave”. That would have made for a better portrayal.

    • Richard1
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:33 am | Permalink

      Scene

  5. Lifelogic
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    I tend to agree with all that.

    Also hugely irritating to watch (on 4 on demand) as so many very long advertisement breaks that you cannot skip (adverts for nothing I am remotely interested in anyway). Perhaps I need to dig out my video recorder.

    The BBC bias was hugely pro remain all the political discussion programmes were about 5 to 1 pro remainer. The BBC interviewers with the possible exception of Andrew Neil massively pro remain with the usual BBC group think.

    Newsnight last night had about half the programme devoted to discussing a few people shouting words at Anna Soubry. Then we had Nicky Morgan and then lots of time for Rowan Williams. The Archbishop talks very slowly in almost completely meaningless sentences. He thinks having a referendum was wrong and article 50 should be revoked. He even seems to think politicians are ‘experts’ and should over rule the very stupid voters. Well perhaps 20 or so MP’s are I suppose. Most voted for the ERM, HS2 and all but a handful for the Climate Change Act so most are clearly complete and utter ‘group think’ idiots.

    “Patience if a virtue” he says, well it certainly is if you want to hear anything sensible from Rowan. No wonder the C of E is in such decline.

    Then to cap the BBC’s endless remain agenda they have the lefty, wrong on almost everything and ex SNP ‘economist’ Lord Finkelstein.

  6. Bob Dixon
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    My partner and I decided not to watch as we expected that it would not be an accurate account of Remainers and Leavers.

    We do not condone the actions of verbally abusing some MP’s and a journalist.

    We are not surprised that some people feel anger at Remainers.

    Remainers are are desperate to overturn the referendum result. The TVs film is an example.

    Calling on the police to protect them when they should consider the anger they are causing.

  7. Peter Wood
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Will you kindly advise; has Mrs. May already complied with the ‘Grieve amendment’ requiring a statement to the HoC, by her statement on last 26th November?

    Thank you.

  8. Anonymous
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    I don’t recall any sort of internet advertising or targeting towards me during the referendum, nor does anyone I know.

    Perhaps it must have been so subliminal that we didn’t notice it – gullible that we are.

    I’m just glad they didn’t dwell on the Aaron Banks conspiracy. It turns out that he didn’t have enough influence to stop the use of the gross figure on the side of the Leave bus.

    • Anonymous
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

      Yes.

      In fellow Leave company we all do the same thing when a Remainer tells us we were duped and didn’t understand what we were voting for.

      We suck in our breath and roll our eyes to each other discreetly.

      I use a polite and subtle method when I am accused of not knowing what I voted for and this is to ask “So who are your MEPs ?” this gets them every single time. I have never even had to use the second question “And what EU parties to do they belong to ?” let alone the third “So what is it that you like about the Group of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists [to pick one of thirty EU parties depending on who I’m talking to] ?”

    • Man of Kent
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:55 am | Permalink

      Agreed , I was totally unaware of any messages sent to me or anyone in the area I was leafletting .
      We did not see any of the communications allegedly sent to a million potential voters on the programme.
      The results when they began to come in , particularly from the North East , were quite staggering in their size and consistency .
      For voters in Nissan territory supposedly reliant on the EU for their jobs the move was ground breaking .
      But these , according to Remain , were thick voters who didn’t understand what they were voting for but who all had computers and were influenced in an unfair way .

      Quite pathetic really !

      My son , a computer programmer, tells me that any approach would probably be on the basis that potential leave voters would say prefer beer to wine , like to holiday at home rather than on the continent etc . The buying profiles and their interests from Facebook , Google , Amazon would then be an indicator of potential supporters .
      They would then be targeted .

      What is remarkable is that the solidity of Vote Leave is standing up in the face of all the same Project Fear Mk II assertions from TM and the pay roll vote .
      It cannot be that some digital trickery persuaded people to vote in an uncharacteristic way , if so then support for No Deal would have evaporated by now .
      But this is probably what May is counting on ??

    • Alison
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

      The gross figure on the side of the bus is actually understated, for 2016 for example, by c £13m per week (using EU figures, plus the amounts the UK government hasn’t seen fit to tell us that it has been paying to the EU, on top of the official amounts), I calculate the UK govt would have £363m per week to spend on the UK.

  9. Mick
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    It was typical channel 4 rubbish
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1069258/brexit-news-theresa-may-nicky-morgan-no-deal-withdrawal-agreement-leave-EU-BBC-newsnight
    Do these mps take the public for idiots or what, all they are after doing is trying to thwart Brexit, then you wonder why people are getting upset and aggressively in the mps faces, well here’s a prediction for you if we don’t leave on 29th March this year I fear that it will cause a lot more resentment and aggressiveness by the hot heads in this country

    • Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

      And not just the ”hotheads”, Mick. There are a lot of law-abiding and otherwise peaceable people out here who would be prepared metaphorically to ”man the barricades”.

      • Turboterrier.
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

        @ L Jones

        Far more than a lot, if push has to go shove

  10. Lifelogic
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    Do our major airports really not have any radar or other way to detect if there is a drone flying over their air space? Do they just rely on the public to spot them for them (or think/ claim to have spotted them)? Then they bring the airport to a complete standstill or just arrest innocent couples and keep them in custody to pretend they are doing something. The government, police, defence forces and airports seem to be rather incompetent to say the very least.

    How can the public be expected spot an unlit drone flying at night anyway?

    • Dame Rita Webb
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      Might be a bit cynical to suggest that when ever Mrs May faces yet another setback in the HoC, a drone seems to be spotted at an airport and that blows everything else off the news agenda.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

      Many politicians and journalists (invariably with little understanding of the engineering or electronics) are speculating about jamming equipment for drones. Currently the authorities do not even seem to be able to detect if a drone is even really present let alone jam it or destroy it! Rather hard to jam them when they could so easily be designed to work on many different radio frequencies or even to be pre-programmed for a given or random route – so as not to need any communication with a base transmitter at all.

      Jamming RF communication is perhaps not a good plan at airports!

      • Bob
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

        “authorities do not even seem to be able to detect if a drone is even really present”

        They used to be described as UFOs.

  11. Dougal Hamer
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    It is impossible NOT to be patronising about Leave voters when they keep saying such absurd things. I’ve even heard some say that no deal is fine because we can simply trade on WTO terms, while in truth there is not a country on the planet that simply trades on WTO terms – because those terms are so very bad

    Reply You are badly informed.MFN under WTO is how we trade successfully today with USA, China. Japan, Brazil etc

    • Dougal Hamer
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:18 am | Permalink

      Thank you for proving my point about Leavers’ ignorance. We certainly do not trade with any of those countries on MFN under WTO – instead, we (as a member of the EU) trade with them on the basis of a host of agreements on co-operation and recognition which go far beyond the very limited rule of MFN under WTO. Inform yourself of the EU/ US agreements here –
      http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/united-states/.
      We lose all of these agreements after Brexit – Mr Fox has renegotiated precisely none of them – and then we do crash out to the catastrophe of MFN under WTO

      • Edward2
        Posted January 10, 2019 at 6:25 am | Permalink

        Those agreements will transfer to the UK after we leave.
        Many nations have expressed their willingness to do this because they want to continue the beneficial trading relationship.
        It is silly of you to claim none are in place because none can be in place until we leave the EU.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

      Tosh a WEO Brexit is the best way to go. Then negotiate as needed with the EU in out mutual interests around this. May’s deal achieves nothing, they pay a huge fee for nothing and destroys the UK’s negotiation position.

    • acorn
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

      Dougal is correctly informed. MFN under WTO is basically meaningless on its own. It is the Mutual Recognition Agreements and the lesser Equivalence Agreements that allow bilateral trade to occur between States. The WTO has no control over those except to encourage fairness in the application of MRA across all its members; the MFN bit.

      The question you should be asking Mrs May is how many MRA /Equivalence deals are the civil service working on and when can they be operational? The EU has about 200 Equivalence deals with third countries and at least a 100 MRA with the US alone.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

        Hilariously acorn you actually think that nations will refuse to sell us anything on 30/3/2019.

      • libertarian
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

        acorn

        Trade happens between buyers and sellers , thats it . If you work out some side deals to minimise paperwork thats great but its NOT necessary in order to sell stuff to people . If you had every run a business you’d know that

      • Alison
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

        All this, including MRA, is clearly covered in Labour Leave’s ’30 truths about leaving on WTO terms’ document – see page 11: “WTO Agreements impose obligations on countries to agree mutual recognition where it is objectively justified. Refusal by the EU (or the UK) to agree Mutual recognition Agreements for their mutual trade would be treated under WTO Rules as arbitrary and discriminatory, since each would be offering MRAs to other countries for the same products and services and would also be permitting domestic producers to sell these same products or supply these services in their home market.”

    • Zorro
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

      What nonsense! You clearly do not understand how WTO works if you are saying this. There are different WTo statuses e.g. MFN and also articles which allow for continuation of no tariffs pending conclusion of a trade deal. WTO is about breaking down barriers to trade. I cannot bear to remember the number of times Remainers say that ‘there wiil be no legal basis for trade – everything stops on 31/03 etc etc’ ….. All utter tosh – Facilitation of Trade Agreement ratified last year? The EU can huff/pufff and do whatever it wants, but it cannot afford to jeopardise in reality its relationship with one of its major customers – no matter how hard it may try 😏

      zorro

      • acorn
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

        Zorro, I am willing to bet that my next door’s new English Boxer puppy, knows more about how the WTO works than you do.

        • Edward2
          Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

          Having spent decades exporting and importing I can say to Zorro you are right.

        • Zorro
          Posted January 10, 2019 at 4:54 am | Permalink

          How much?

          Zorro

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

      Dougal

      I thought the EU was a WTO Member, thus it abides by the same rules as all other members.

      How could it complain about trading on WTO rules.

      Please explain.

    • David Price
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

      Yet it seems the EU wishes to trade on WTO terms with the UK, a major customer, because it clearly doesn’t want a fair trade arrangement. Meanwhile there are countries who do wish to trade with the UK and want to discuss trade agreements.

    • Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

      Is that what Facebook says? I’ve heard it does. Though I don’t bother to look for myself – I have a life, and that life is mainly taken up with making a better life for those around me. Hence the belief in the UK and not in the EU.

      ”Patronising about Leave voters” eh? Surely not. You’d have to have the moral high ground and be somewhat better informed to be effectively ”patronising”. Do you poorly educated people even know what the words means? (Said patronisingly)

    • Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

      Thanks John

  12. Roy Grainger
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    As our public-sector chum Andy has told us repeatedly that Leave supporters were all ignorant pensioners the whole premise of the film that social media was important in the vote is plainly absurd !

    • DennisA
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      Indeed. I am neither on Facebook nor Twitter, so how Mr Banks got to me I have i idea.

      • DennisA
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

        no idea

    • Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

      Good point, Roy. I wonder if Andy will comment on this.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

      I did not watch it but if this was the premise how ironic!

      Old people apparently caused us to vote to leave the EU but it is young people (those who wish to stay in) who use social media most prolifically

      Square that circle.

  13. Dame Rita Webb
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Funnily enough the Guradain didn’t like it either, called it ‘superficial, irresponsible’ and only awarded it two stars

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:14 am | Permalink

      The Guardian reviewer, Lucy Mangan, writes:

      “. . . the difference between the official campaign and Farage’s fascistic version, Leave.EU . . .”

      Should she apologise for calling Farage a Fascist?

      Or are only Remain/Mainstream politicians worthy of an apology?

      • DennisA
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:07 am | Permalink

        I noticed that the Speaker, from his privileged position, referred to those (misguidedly I believe) harrassing Anna Soubry, as fascists. Such an easy word to throw around these days.

        • Cerberus
          Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

          Look at the state of the AfD leader on ITU who was battered by 3 unknown assailants in Germany. He disagreed with the left wing narrative so is a ‘nazi’ deserving of this abuse. Soubry needs to wind her neck in.

  14. Caterpillar
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    C4 film may have been unbelievable but so was parliament yesterday. Having failed to hold the Govt to account (i.e. Preparing for Brexit) for 2.5 years, Grieve, Cooper and 301 others went an unbelievable step further intentionally acting to prevent Govt from preparing. This behaviour is disturbing.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:15 am | Permalink

      We won’t need to raise taxes to pay for nor deal. We’ll be keeping the money we currently pay the EU.

      • Mitchel
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:32 am | Permalink

        There are organs of the state which are looking at ways of channelling funds,ex-EU, to the likes of Poland,Romania,the Baltics and Ukraine to keep them aligned.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

        Stephen Priest,

        My point was they have not done their job for a 1000 days, and now seek to hinder what the 2016 people’s vote advised.

        That we now have a biased Speaker alongside an antidemocratic mob inside the HoC shows there will be no efficient way to recover democracy, it is going to get scarily bad.

    • Bob
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:32 am | Permalink

      The result of the vote on Cooper’s sabotage bill was 50.5% vs 49.50%.
      Will the Remainers be calling for a second “politician’s vote”?

      • Stephen Priest
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

        It was historic.

        The first time in history the Labour Party voted against tax rises.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

        The irony would be lost on the mob that is in the HoC, they are shameful.

  15. BCL
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    I suppose one should expect more propaganda rather than a truth. Most of the media is for remain and most of what they say isn’t worth listening to. The remain side is not only responsible for bringing democracy and parliament into disrepute, with MP’s attempting to thwart the will of the people, but the media also. Where once the BBC, in particular, was an example of how to do journalism to the world, I for one now distrust everything I hear. The remoaners have done great damage to this country. The sooner we are out, preferably on WTO rules, and can start moving forward, the better.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:06 am | Permalink

      Most of the media: what about the Murdoch media, rags like the Express, the Telegraph, etc. I guess the only newspaper in the UK with balanced reporting is the FT, mainly read by people whose employers pay (and poor pensioners like myself).

      The BBC that is much maligned by people who do not appreciate good, commercial free and fact-checked reporting (they make mistakes too of course) is probably the best non-biased media organisation in the world. Just ask a few professionals.

      You may not enjoy the news that non-biased media bring, but that is up to you. Be proud that you have access to commercial-free television in your country (assuming you live in Britain).

      • Edward2
        Posted January 10, 2019 at 6:29 am | Permalink

        I’m surprised you don’t see the pro EU editorial policy of the FT.
        The FT is perfectly entitled to have such an opinion but it is odd you never noticed.

    • Jagman84
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

      I do not believe that WTO trading is intended to be the final destination. Rather a suitable stepping stone to broker more lucrative deals with the Nations who have expressed a willingness to do so. The EU trade is in extreme danger of becoming secondary to our RoW interests.

      • Mark B
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

        I agree.

  16. jerry
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    “I watched this C4 film on Monday evening.”

    Having seen a trailer, the caricature of Boris, I didn’t bother to watch.

    “It was a typical Remain influenced take on the referendum, and a missed opportunity to say something new about the campaigns.”

    You expected that from Ch4, from a dramatisation?!

    I have no doubt your critique of the programme is spot on, that said;

    Once upon a time, before the over comercalisa6tion of UK broadcasting industry in the early 1990s “Brexit An uncivil war” would have been the title to a to a documentary, taking the opportunity to say something new about the campaigns, to give us incisive insight, not just a dumbed down (so called) docutainment drama designed to appeal to a certain audience demographic and thus drive commercial ratings/income – most likely the same audience as Ch4 News, enough said…

    Sorry John, it’s far to late now to start complaining about the beast of an industry the govt you were a part of created.

  17. MickN
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    Brexit as seen and played out by remoaners. I decided not to watch it as Christmas has left me a bit short and I don’t want to have to be buying a new television just now.

  18. Everhopeful
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Knew what it would be like and so did not watch..scarcely watch any tv now for similar reasons. Agenda…always an agenda…no entertainment value.
    Sounds like…as usual the Remainers tried to change history and reality.
    If leaving the EU is sooooo difficult/ impossible and soooo wrong why did Cameron give us the Referendum?
    Oh yes..he thought we were so stupid we would fall for all the state propaganda and vote according to its diktat!
    Well..he was wrong!

  19. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    Slightly off topic

    Jeremy Corbyn uses the amendment to the finance bill to claim there is no majority in the house for leaving the EU on WTO terms. He is making 1+1=1.5.

    The opposition has opposed the government to try to force a general election and has been joined by some mal contents within the government’s party. This is not 5he same as no majority for leaving with no deal.

    Further off topic. Dennis, how many times has our newly empowered, sovereign Parliament waived through EU legislation without scrutiny since the referendum? Is it really empowered or is it self serving?

    • Brigham
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:50 am | Permalink

      1+1=1.5
      Corbyn comes across to me as somebody unable to comprehend even this.

      • Arthur Wrightiss
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

        It was carefully calculated by Diane Abbott.

  20. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    I did not watch the C4 programme. The lead is not an actor whose performances enthuse me and the trailers did not peak my interest so can not comment on its veracity.

    • Bob
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

      I didn’t watch it because I don’t have a TV Licence.
      I could watch it on catch-up (All4) but I won’t, because Channel 4 is a BBC spin-off propagating subversive propaganda.

      I make an exception for Supervet.

  21. fedupsoutherner
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Exactly, it was the reason I didn’t bother to watch it. I knew it would be representative of Remain before it was even shown. Nothing on the TV lately shows any advantages of leaving. All we hear is doom and gloom. I was speaking with my hairdresser yesterday who voted remain and even she said if there were another vote she would vote leave now. Everyone is sick to the back teeth of politicians arguing over something they all agreed to do and yet somehow can’t find it in themselves to follow that up. No wonder frustration is building with the public and people like Sourbry are being heckled. It’s all a bit pathetic in what is supposed to be a democracy and a parliament which has been around for many years. They should know better. FFS just get on with getting out and we can show the world what they already know. We can be successful out of the clutches of the EU.

    • Steve
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

      FUS

      “Exactly, it was the reason I didn’t bother to watch it. I knew it would be representative of Remain before it was even shown.”

      Same here, I knew it would be a load of subversive lefty C4 brown stuff, and I was right.

  22. Nicholas Murphy
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Presumably we get to see the ‘back of the queue’ shenanigans exposed in 28 years time. We will also see how every other friendly nation, like Australia, was asked to offer their support to the UK staying in the EU. It will show how the government was doing all it could to keep us chained to Brussels, despite its protestation, or downright lie, that it had ‘ruled nothing out’.

    • Steve
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

      Nicholas Murphy

      Hopefully those responsible would still be alive. And who knows by then we might have a nationalist government.

      ‘go figure’ to coin a phrase.

  23. ferdinand
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    The programme was just as expected, suggesting that some underhand polling methods had captured voters ‘not available’ to Remain. What else would you expect from Channel 4s elites.

    • Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

      Are they ”elite”? I don’t think so. Do you?

  24. Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Is this the same film that Dan Hannan has reviewed on Conservative Home?
    The tv – ITV and BBC – are both so enmeshed in their own ideas that I no longer listen to their views – on Brexit, on Global Warming, on the NHS. I walk out when yet another ‘victim” is wheeled out to be coaxed into bursting into tears over their unjust treatment by the NHS, by the Welfare system or by Life in General.
    Another thing – Radio 4 has turned into Woman’s Hour. Where is Jeremy Paxman?

  25. Andy
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    It is a TV drama. It is not supposed to be an entirely accurate historical representation.

    Shakespeare wrote drama based on history but even he employed more than a little dramatic licence.

    So don’t worry. This is not a remain ploy. It is a TV a show. The off switch is available.

    And you are right. It is not accurate. As Carol Cadwalladr points out it does not show Vote Leave’s leave cheating and lying. And that data you think is smart? How much came from Cambridge Analytica?

    A TV show will not establish this. The inevitable public inquiry into Brexit will. And I suspect the public inquiry will make you all even less happy still.

    • Dame Rita Webb
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:13 am | Permalink

      I thought leave won because of the overwhelming number thick elderly voters in the North, like me, backing it? Not the sort of people who would be brainwashed by a computer algorithm, even assuming they knew how to use a computer in the first place.

      • Brigham
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:53 am | Permalink

        I am deeply offended Rita. as I am a thick elderly voter in the south I didn’t even get a mention.

      • Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

        Yes, Andy. Dame Rita is spot on. Perhaps you could comment on this apparent anomoly/inconsistency/incongruity/aberration?
        I think there are many of us here who would be interested to read your take on this.

        • Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

          ”anomaly”, that is. I’m not really iggurunt.

    • Al
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

      Would this be the public enquiry run by Remain campaigners, or do we stand a chance of an impartial one that will also investigate government spending and use of resources during this period?

      A certain expensive leaflet comes to mind, but the suggested misuse of government’s office facilities that this purported documentary suggests could be another thing to be examined.

      • Andy
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

        Yeah. The public inquiry will be run by Remainers – because the vast majority of the next generation are remainers and we will run it.

        In the meantime I note as Brexit spirals further out of control the Speaker has become the latest traitor. An ever growing Brexiteer list which includes high court judges, the BBC, Channel 4, all the living former prime ministers, every chancellor for the last quarter century, all but a handful of former cabinet ministers, the Governor of the Bank of England, universities, the head of the NHS, big business and so on and so on and so on.

        Perhaps we willl soon be forced to wear EU flag armbands to identify us as the pathetic Brexiteer witchhunt for the enemy within continues.

        The problem is – and always has been – each and every one of you.

        • Edward2
          Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

          Look up the show trials in Stalin’s Russia available on the internet.
          That’s where you are heading with your hateful attitude Andy.

          • hans christian ivers
            Posted January 10, 2019 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

            Edward2

            You are both too much and you should know better

          • Edward2
            Posted January 10, 2019 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

            He needs telling his threats sound like the path to totalitarianism.
            I like democracy.
            The people are in charge.
            Not an elite who think they know best.

        • Al
          Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

          Thank you Andy for confirming that you believe that the public inquiry will be biased, and see no problem with this.

        • Mitchel
          Posted January 10, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

          When you wear those EU armbands en mass will you be singing “Tomorrow belongs to me”?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

      A rather poor comparison with Shakespeare’s plays, given that it is widely recognised that many of them were also intended as propaganda …

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

      Andy. The off switch is available. The on switch never got used in our house. We are fed up watching pure junk.

    • Alison
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

      Andy, but in due course (ie from next week), people will believe that what is in the screen drama is fact, is the truth, real history. Just as lots of people around the world believe what is in eg a Steven Spielberg film on Enigma is what happened in real life.

      These programmes need to be prefaced with and end with statements that what is portrayed is not fact.
      Not having watched this programme, I don’t know if this one was.

  26. a-tracy
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Didn’t watch it. When you say “digital technology to contact voters won it for Leave.”
    This is interesting I don’t have Facebook, my children were constantly bombarded with Remain messages and doom messages. We are told that it was the oldies that voted in their masses for Leave yet most digital technology users are under 40.

    ONS figures “Virtually all adults aged 16 to 34 years were recent internet users (99%) in 2018, compared with 44% of adults aged 75 years and over.
    “https://www.statista.com/statistics/507422/distribution-of-facebook-users-in-the-united-kingdom-uk-by-age-group/

    Statista says only 7% of facebook users are over 65 years.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

      Yes, nobody has addressed the assertion that “the older generation won it for Leave” versus “digital advertising won it for Leave”. I have no desire and never have had to have a Facebook account. Perhaps our host was swayed by Facebook, but I certainly wasn’t!

      • Rien Huizer
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

        That means that your vote came cheaply!

    • Sue Doughty
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

      It is the older generation now saying we should remain as if that averts a war like what they lived through!

  27. Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Don’t know why C4 or any TV station is making films about brexit at this time. We are so near the end now that you would think they would be holding off and planning to do stuff on the aftermath- ie. for showing anytime after 29 March. So say around May or June next should be good time for documentaries after all there should be plenty of material about to report on at that stage and then this combined with first hand accounts from people on the front line who were close to the action should make for riveting viewing.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

      Telltale. They won’t be interested in making a programme next year after we have left. It will be good news and that doesn’t suit their agenda.

  28. Alan Jutson
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    It was a Drama not a documentary, but it was advertised and promoted as a documentary.

    Like so many films/programmes of past and present, historical facts have been changed or manipulated to suit the producers point of view, hence the reason I have not viewed it.

    Unfortunately so many people nowadays believe what they see on a screen, not matter what the subject, hence why fake news (project fear) is such a powerful a tool, until proven otherwise.

  29. A.Sedgwick
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    The 20 Conservative MPs who voted with Labour on last night’s amendment should have the Whip withdrawn and be de-selected. Abstentions would have been acceptable, voting against is an indication they could cause a general election and they can hardly participate as Conservatives.

    • BCL
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:19 am | Permalink

      I agree. I don’t think the word “traitor” is too strong to use of such people.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

      Sedgwick. Agree.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

      A Sedgwick

      100% agreement with you

  30. George Brooks
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    This is all part of the ‘Remainer’ onslaught that will get worse between now and 29th March.

    C4 News launched it’s attack on Leave when this film was announced and no doubt in an attempt to maximise the ratings. Up until then Jon Snow had been relatively even handed but not now. I am very pleased that he was pushed back into his box by ID-S last night who explained very clearly that the amendment to the Finance bill did not change the fact that parliament has already voted to leave with or without a deal. Snow tried continually to talk ID-S down and then gave up and ended the interview abruptly. By then the wheels had been taken off that story and thrown away.

    We have to expect more trumped up legal challenges and no doubt more disruption in parliament before we escape from the EU. Once we have left I hope sincerely that all Remainers accept that they did not succeed and return to back this country to the hilt and not attack it in an endeavour to prove their project fear forecasts

    • Steve
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

      George Brooks

      “Once we have left I hope sincerely that all Remainers accept that they did not succeed and return to back this country to the hilt and not attack it in an endeavour to prove their project fear forecasts”

      It won’t come to that, as there is a reckoning on the way. Most remainers especially those in government will be otherwise engaged in running for the hills.

      After we have left the EU there is no way the public will allow any of these traitors anywhere near Westminster. The next General Election is going to be payback.

  31. bigneil
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    With the amount you do and all the comments you have to read and sort for here, I’m surprised you actually get time to watch any tv or relax.

    • Stred
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

      And now he has to find time to polish his armour and sharpen his sword.

    • Stred
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

      And now he has to find time to polish his armour and sharpen his sword .

  32. Hardlyever
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    C4 should instead do a programme on the US National security advisor John Bolton and on what he has been up to for the past four days in Israel..looks loke his plans have gone up in a puff of smoke if reports are to be believed

    • Mitchel
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:39 am | Permalink

      Elements of the UK Defence and Foreign Policy establishment love John Bolton-they are more neo-con than the neo-cons themselves and get a thrill living vicariously through them…. compensation,as they would see it, for the near total impotence this country has been reduced to.

  33. Adam
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    The programme attempted entertainment & regarded accuracy as of lesser importance. Leave’s higher intelligence in strategy development, team management, communication, and target audience reach & motivation, were well presented.

    Parts of the programme were sloppy & a lazy mixture of hasty fragments. Some of the intended lookalikes were awry. Overall, it did manage to entertain, yet could have been so much better if effective actors were used & other higher quality standards had been maintained, or even reached.

  34. libertarian
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    Dear Andy, Newmania, hans, Margaret howard , tabulazero etc

    Another one bites the dust

    The President Chairman of the ports of Boulogne-Calais, Jean-Marc Puissesseau has told the Today Programme that “the trucks will be passing as they are doing today” through his port. He confirmed that with customs his port will only be checking for veterinary and sanitary controls, “for which we have already been building infrastructure and parking, but that will not influence the traffic in Dover.”

    “We will not control the exports, only asking the papers already, the custom declaration, that’s all! The import, as you won’t control [restrict], there will not be a queue in Dover because there will not be control, so where is the problem?!”

    Oh dear you will need to find another scare story

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:45 am | Permalink

      I’ve just sent the link to that to the editor of the Maidenhead Advertiser, as relevant to my most recent letter:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/01/05/beware-of-central-banks-who-want-things-to-be-normal/#comment-986073

      The last two paragraphs of which letter read:

      “Why, therefore, should Theresa May – incidentally herself a diabetic – order UK customs officers to unnecessarily hold up consignments of insulin and other medicines from well-known companies on the continent, which will be no more risky after we have left the EU than they are now?

      And if she really believes that French customs officers may arbitrarily delay such consignments on their way to the UK, as well as arbitrarily delaying the clearance of our exports which will present no higher risk to the EU Single Market after March 29 than they did before, when they were almost all just nodded through, why is she not publicly protesting to the French government and pointing out their obligations under that treaty article?”

      But you have forgotten to add “Theresa May” to your list of scaremongers, as for a long time now it has seemed very likely that much of this tosh actually originates from Downing Street, and as has been pointed out here and elsewhere for months now very little of it is ever contradicted by official sources. In fact the government made no real attempt to rebut any media criticisms of its policy until it set up that short-lived blog to counter attacks on Theresa May’s rubbish ‘deal’:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/29/futile-project-fear-figures/#comment-977142

      “… after so many months of deliberately allowing criticism of official government policy to go almost completely unchallenged, and in all likelihood covertly encouraging such criticism, suddenly Theresa May sees the need for a blog … ”

      In total just seven entries, between November 23rd and December 6th …

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

      He is a Le Pen supporter and his are not the views of the French government. He will have to apply the rules like everyone else. If there is no need for controls (on British exports, not on EU exports), thhen there will ne no controls. But is there is a sudden change to third country status without a trade agreement (aka “WTO”) incomeing traffic will be subject to the same sort of controls applied to Belarus on the Polish border..

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

        “He is a Le Pen supporter”

        Is that the best you can do?

        What rules? Cite chapter and verse, don’t just make stuff up.

        Where have you seen the French government expressing a different view about the degree to which border controls may have to be intensified and the likely consequences? Give links to reliable sources where the French government has contradicted the reasoned view of the man running the ports, and once again do not just make stuff up.

        We’ve already been through this, back in October when I challenged you as follows:

        http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/10/24/my-urgent-question-on-the-eu-customs-union-and-draft-withdrawal-agreement-22-october-2018/#comment-968954

        “If you really think that the WTO, or somebody else, would demand that the EU must treat the UK, until that moment an EU member state and still in full alignment with all relevant EU law, in exactly the same way as it treats Russia, then you’ve lost all grip on reality.”

        You didn’t reply then, and now here you are just repeating the same rubbish in flat contradiction of the bloke on the job.

      • Steve
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

        Huizer

        “He is a Le Pen supporter”

        He’s probably a decent chap then.

      • libertarian
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

        Rien Huizer

        Lol , his politics dont agree with mine so he’s wrong.

        Yup WTO has the same controls its always had, if you’d ever exported anything you’d have some idea what you’re talking about.

        I thought you lot relied on the testimony of experts ?

        • libertarian
          Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

          ps

          By the way Rien neither Belarus or Poland have a border with France , so no they aren’t the same rules

    • Stred
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

      Mrs Balls was of the opinion that big employers would fold for lack of parts arriving just in time, while trying to scupper real Brexit yesterday. Mrs Morgan seems just as worried and is also in full reverse mode. Could Brexiteer MPs consider taking them on a day trip to Calais to meet M.Puissesseau who could explain very slowly how he is going to continue making money by not holding up traffic.

      • Jagman84
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

        Mrs Balls couldn’t run a bath, let alone a multinational company.
        Just to repeat, JIT is carried out by logistics specialists with buffer stocks at warehousing, local to the customer, not on cross-channel ferries. Inclement weather is more of a concern than any imagined delays at UK ports.

    • Zorro
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

      Hahaha, Libertarian, it’s so unfair for them bless – we will have to find them a safe space to comfort their certain triggering at this jolt of reality 😂

      zorro

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

      The relevant part of the Today broadcast was from 52 minutes in here:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0001yfm

  35. rick hamilton
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Well what do you expect from C4 or the BBC, both propaganda channels for the nanny-state Left and anti-Brexit fanatics who know or care nothing about the realities of international business.

    The HoC seems to be stuffed with ‘experts’ on the ‘disaster’ of WTO terms who ignore the daily assurances of people who actually run the ports etc. that the planning is done.

  36. Brigham
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    Sir John! I was extolling your financial acumen to a friend of mine, when she told me that your knighthood was to shut you up. She was most put out when I told her that somebody like you would never be “shut up” no matter what the incentive. She is an ardent remainer so I suppose we should feel sorry for the poor woman.

    • Sue Doughty
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

      Knighthoods never shut anyone up. Once you’ve got it you know it cannot be taken away so you don’t have to take orders from anyone.
      Growing up we had neighbours who were awarded knighthoods for services to British exports. His wife would henceforth be called Lady but my mother insisted anyone who had a title must only drink tea from bone china cups with saucers. Having bagged the knighthood they sold the business and relocated to somewhere sunny with a swimming pool. I hope Sir John doesn’t do the same.

  37. agrictola
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Do not expect political clarity from a bunch of luvies.

    Last night a majority of MPs voted against a no deal solution to leaving the EU. I found this to be very amateur thinking. It is one thing to hold the private thought that you would prefer to leave the EU with an agreement that was good for both sides. It is a crass negotiating stratergy to hamstring the negotiators by removing our ultimate sanction.

    If there is any chance of the EU making any concessions that would make the WA acceptable to Parliament it will only happen if we actually leave with no deal ln 29th march this year. The reality of no deal is the only factor that could loosen up their thinking. So for Parliament to block this I find it incredibly amateur behaviour.

  38. libertarian
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Len Broughton

    Which law have they been proven to break?

  39. Dominic
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Can someone please stop the taxpayer funded subsidies being dished out to these parasitic, lefty organisations whose only raison d’etre is to try and politicise the apolitical British population with their propaganda

    You wouldn’t know we had a Tory government in power but then I suppose we’ve got a PM more in tune with the liberal left Europhile client state she so readily embraces

    I yearn for the day when Jon Snow, Paul Mason is stacking shelves at Tesco or better still Asda

  40. Alan Joyce
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Dear Mr. Redwood,

    I see you have deleted my post from yesterday and also my re-submission of it today. It was merely an attempt to inject a little humour into proceedings and completely inoffensive yet you allow a certain individual on your blog to insult all and sundry on an almost daily basis.

    I must confess that I am very disappointed in your actions. I did not think you would resort to the suppression of contributions to your blog of a non-controversial nature, i.e. censorship.

    • Mark B
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

      Alan

      Welcome to the site mate.

      All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others 😉

    • Alan Joyce
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

      Dear Mr. Redwood,

      I understand that this is your blog, run in your spare time and at your own expense and, therefore, you are the sole arbiter of what gets to be published. However, would you at least do me the courtesy of explaining why it is you have decided not to post my last submission.

      I repeat that it is not crude or vulgar. It is not libellous and it contains only one link to another website which can easily be checked out and is itself non-contentious.

      I would like to understand why you permit one individual to post quite distasteful remarks about many others who contribute to your blog but do not allow a little balance into the equation.

  41. Shieldsman
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    David Lidington has no confidence in the EU’s WA passing through Parliament, he turned down a £10,00 bet.
    In the event it fails Labour are threatening another attempt at a no confidence vote.
    Parliament is in a real turmoil and only 79 days to go to Brexit. Are there any rabbits left in the hat?

    • Caterpillar
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

      Shieldsman, odds available today we’re

      HoC Reject 1 – 10
      HoC Approve 5-1

      If they’d accept an £7 or £8bn bet at least we could hedge the divorce bill.

  42. oldwulf
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    I did not watch the drama. Events have moved on and it is well out of date.

    Whilst so called “Brexit” has been extremely divisive for the UK and has exposed the rift between the establishment and the democratic majority, we may look back in a few years and wonder what all the fuss was about ?

    I might be more interested in a drama about the rise of right wing politics in Europe. Who could be trusted to provide a balanced view of this ?

    • Mark B
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

      Someone once said;

      If you tell a lie often enough, sooner or later it becomes the truth.

  43. oldtimer
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    We did not watch it either. My wife and thought about the possibility of watching it later via C4s online service. That is until we started to read the terms of service where, inter alia, it said it would have knowledge and control of our passwords among other intrusive information and liberties they sought to exercise if we were rash enough to sign up. We were still reading the terms of service when we were, apparently, timed out and cut off. We did not bother to go back. So the programme will go unseen in our household.

    I thought that Tim Shipman`s book, All Out War, provided some good insights into the Brexit campaigns as well as providing a gripping read. And then there were the thousands of unsung foot soldiers pounding the pavements who usually get ignored.

  44. Atlas
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    The Atlas household watched the C4 programme last night.

    Our conclusion? An interesting bit of Remoaner leaning drama, that nevertheless showed brief insight into the ‘we know best for you’ attitude of some of the players on the remain side.

    It did raise the issue of people trying to work out what you really think by what you have said in public. I remember Tony Blair as PM wanting to detect criminals before they were even criminals using what are similar methods. This is a big brother issue that is not going to go away.

  45. Edwardm
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    O/T. By passing a motion to limit government funds for preparing for the default “no-deal” WTO terms option, the opposition parties plus the 20 conservative remoaners are undermining preparations. This is an act of national sabotage, and by their actions, the naming of such MPs as traitors surely has some basis.

    These remoaners need to be aware that their actions are stoking a lot of resentment among leavers and anger levels are going up.

  46. Iain Gill
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    I have not seen the Channel 4 show, although I wanted to real life got in the way.

    I have been a keen reader of Dom Cummings blog, although he seems to have gone quiet recently, probably keeping his powder dry especially in view of the nonsense legal processes the state has started against him.

  47. TheyWontCrushBrexit
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Thank you John for ‘taking one for the Team’…by watching the programme so I didn’t have to.

    Our household never watches the political news on BBC, ITV, C4 or Sky, because of their blatant, anti-Brexit bias.

    We certainly don’t voluntarily watch any extra, anti-Brexit propaganda.

    The harder those Brexit traitors push…the more we will resist.

  48. BOF
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    ‘The whole film was skewed to exploring the Leave campaign rather than the Remain campaign. I mainly watched it to see more of the background to Remain but was disappointed.’

    Do you think, Sir John, that the reason for not focusing on Remain was because there was absolutely nothing positive in their whole campaign. In all my conversations with Remainers while campaigning for leave this was the one thing that stood out. There was never a positive message, only project fear. Many ‘fears’ were deliberate distortions of the truth.

    We are now nearly three years from where the campaigning started (which was well before the official start) and nothing has changed. Project Fear is STILL all they have to offer. Were I on that side of the argument I think I would die of embarrassment.

  49. Mick
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    I see the remoaners are in overdrive with mp grieve putting in a amendment that Mrs May would have only 3 days and not 21 days to comeback to Parliament if her deal is rejected, time to play hardball with these remoaners Mrs May and if Grieves amendment is passed then she should put off the meaningful vote again

  50. Stred
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Who has been convicted? Was it not the case that all of the Electoral Commission board were remainers and that some expressed the opinion that the referendum could be overturned? Did three of them leave after a court found that they had advised the leave campaign that they could transfer money and then changed their mind and decided to fine them for doing as advised? Have they now decided that they are not qualified to do their job and handed the matter to others, who have not yet prosecuted anybody?

  51. Mark J
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    No Brexit on 29th March will do more than just bring down the Government, it will bring down democracy in the UK too.

    Quite a few I have spoken to will never vote again if Brexit is “cancelled”, “delayed”, or “thwarted”. as that trust in Politics will be lost – for good.

    It is high time the Remainers were kicked out of the Conservative party. Local associations choose more suitable candidates to support, and to then hold a GE, as article today were saying should happen.

    Do the Conservatives really need Anna Soubry, Ken Clarke, Nicky Morgan, et al. continually trying to thwart democracy and the Government?

    Standing on a clear Brexit mandate, with a solid plan should see the Conservatives past the line. Many just want to get out of this mess (and the EU) to see what they voted for, carried out.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

      MarkJ. I said exactly this tonight. I WILL NOT vote for any main stream party if Brexit is not achieved. I think alot of people will not vote at all. What is the point when they never deliver on their promises? All lies and we obviously don’t count in their eyes.

      • Al
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

        As I have said before, not voting at all works for the benefit of the main parties. If you can, swing your votes to smaller parties, independents, or vote for specific mainstream candidates who’s views you approve of and can trust to stand up to their party.

        If you don’t vote, that’s a vote lost. If your vote swings, you can reduce a majority by two, and help an independent or small party candidate retain their deposit.

  52. James bertram
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    I watched it and enjoyed it. Yes, full of inaccuracies – but it was not entirely pro-Remain in content. The most dramatic moment, and I think intended to be so, was in the focus group when the woman lost it, saying she was sick and tired of being ignored, of being called ‘thick’, of meaning nothing to anyone, of having nothing in life herself – putting forward the emotional case for ‘Leaving’: that 3 million of voters that voted leave had not voted before, and felt lost to and left out of society. This was Craig Oliver’s conclusion at the end – that Remain had lost the argument 20 years ago because the elite had persistently ignored the underclass (Brown’s ‘bigoted woman’ approach) for decades. Yes, just one element of the positive case to vote Leave, but well put. The programme was largely targeted at Remain voters – and, in this way, I think it helped challenge their view that the Leave vote from the working class was because this underclass were racist, stupid, didn’t know the facts, and were easily misled, or whatever patronising arguments that Remainers regularly come up with.
    Agree, though, that the other central premise, that a conspiracy of technology firms (American, perhaps, Trump led) stole the vote from Remain, held little water.

  53. Tweeter_L
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t watch – I didn’t think my blood pressure would be able to take it. I don’t think it’s the right time to be doing docu-drama about this issue which is far from settled: it looks like mischief-making of the first order.

    More so-called “People’s Vote” campaigning on “Today” this morning: they just can’t understand the simple concept that there is only “deadlock” in Parliament because the majority there won’t accept the result of the first “people’s vote.”

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

      Tweeter. You are right. There didn’t need to be a deal. We should have just left as the vote said. Nobody said we were going to still be paying money to the EU while at the same time having our say taken away. What a shambles.

  54. Dominic
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Dominic Grieve. The enemy of democracy. The enemy of the people’s will. The enemy of all that is decent, moral and just.

    His behaviour with regards to Parliamentary procedures in cahoots with that utterly vile Bercow is nothing less than a full frontal assault on popular democracy

    This snake is a disgrace to all that we hold dear

    • DaveM
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

      Unfortunately he’s being supported by the Speaker. When the Speaker ceases to be impartial, Mr Redwood, does that mean Parliament is effectively no longer a functioning legislature? Very serious times for our democracy.

    • RICHARD J MOORE
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

      Dominic Grieve is a hero for what he has achieved for democracy. Parliament is sovereign. Parliamentary sovereignty is the most important part of the UK constitution. Referendums are only ever advisory.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

        Read the leaflet.

    • hefner
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

      For me, there are at least two problems with your post: 1/ the UK is not a popular democracy but a parliamentary one, (this from the time of the Glorious Revolution) 2/ I seem to remember that the USSR/China/North Korea are/were supposed to be popular democracies.
      So is this what you want?

      • Edward2
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

        That’s is ridiculous Hefner.
        USSR China and North Korea are plainly not democracies.
        They have a rich elite who ignore the wishes of their citizens.
        Err..a bit like the EU then.

    • Andy
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

      He is my MP. He is an honourable and decent man – whose legal knowledge puts pretty much everyone else in Parliament to shame.

      The responsibility for this entire mess lays with Brexiteers – who lied and lied and, when they got caught lying, lied some more.

      Everything they promised you in 2016 was untrue – and is proven more so everyday. It really is time to direct your anger at them.

      When the Brexit prison sentences are handed out it will not be the Grieve’s, Clarke’s and Soubry’s who are sent to the cells. Those on the ERG WhatsApp group have much to fear when it full contents are leaked. Which they inevitably will be.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

        You are getting more hysterical by the day Andy.
        In both senses of the word.

  55. KZB
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Oh yes it did ! At the end they made this viewpoint abundantly clear. It was put right at the end intentionally, as that would be the point taken away by the viewer.

  56. DaveM
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    Leave didn’t need a campaign. It would have won anyway.

  57. Nigel Seymour
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    That remoaner barrel must be a mighty big durable one as it’s been scraped beyond belief!

    I’ll stick to my prediction over the past 18 months that Art50 will not happen come March and will be extended at least for a further year maybe? What will then happen in May when the MEP elections take place?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

      Only today:

      https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-01-09/debates/A6E6F8C6-20DA-42BC-8ACD-C488F12E2A4F/Engagements

      “Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)

      According to that invaluable website TheyWorkForYou, the Prime Minister has assured the House on no fewer than 74 previous occasions that we will be leaving the EU on 29 March. Will she categorically confirm today that there is absolutely no question at all of delaying that date?

      The Prime Minister

      I am happy to repeat what I have said previously — that we will be leaving the European Union on 29 March. I want us to leave the European Union on 29 March with the good deal that is on the table.”

      So that will now be 75 occasions she has said it.

      The easiest and quickest way to change the exit date would be through a resolution passed by both Houses:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/07/19/the-wto-global-trading-model-and-mr-barnier-time-for-the-media-to-mend-its-language/#comment-948838

      After today’s disgraceful performance by the Speaker perhaps it can no longer be assumed that it would have to be a resolution proposed by the government.

    • mancunius
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

      The EU is no longer prepared to extend Art. 50 except for a second referendum, into which it would of course put as much financial and political backing of the remain side as possible, and would demand that the UK government and the opposition both join the campaign to remain, to ensure their victory.
      Punitive terms would then be inflicted on the UK as the ‘price of remaining’.

      Parliament might be induced to vote for this farrago if they get emotionally worked up about a WTO exit they are not ‘prepared for’. Poor dears, they’ll never be prepared for anything – bedtime, a common cold, governing the country: all seem an impossible challenge to them.

  58. Pauline Jorgensen
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Didn’t watch it as I was confident it would be inaccurate sensationalised media spin dressed up as fact – obviously a good decision

  59. Sue Doughty
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t watch it. Mainly because on dorsteps and in streets the Vote-leave campaigners found people had already made up their minds and didn’t need any leaflets or persuasion from anyone – the campaigners on both sides made no difference to the outcome of the vote. Knowing that a TV show about those who thought they had made a difference seems to be pointless viewing time.
    This country had grown sick to the back teeth of being bossed about by unsackable unaccountable people who don’t listen – the campaigners were not heard or read about.
    Now get on with it, deal or no deal we leave and prosper.

  60. Posted January 9, 2019 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Yea load of Luvves giving a lefty Lib Dem , view we were warned by the Express, so we did not watch it quite enough of that sort of thing on the BBC, sick to death of the Remoaners, they suffer from No Democricy.
    The House is no longer working for the voters, those that disagree with a Democratic vote should simply be thrown out !

    We are a laughingstock

  61. Den
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Douglas Carswell was also a critic and was one featured in this tale. He was actually there and said it was always a joint effort With Cummings/Elliot and Hannan leading.

    https://capx.co/the-brexit-film-was-good-television-but-was-it-accurate/?omhide=true&utm_source=CapX+Newsletter&utm_campaign=458baecc12-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_07_17_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dcdc78d804-458baecc12-241820233

  62. Shieldsman
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Continental Businesses including the meat trade are saying we do not want a hard Brexit, but neither does anyone in the UK (including the 17.4 million leavers).
    You can put it down to the intransigence of Barnier and the Commission failing to negotiate a trade agreement in the two year article 50 timescale. Instead they have spent the time designing and thrusting their diabolical withdrawal agreement upon Theresa May, without even discussing trade. It does not even look like the Cabinet splitting ‘Chequers’.

    • TheyWontCrushBrexit
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

      ” but neither does anyone in the UK (including the 17.4 million leavers)”.

      Please do not attempt to speak on behalf of 17.4 million voters.

      Polls show significant and growing support for a WTO exit.
      Over 300,000 people have signed a Petition for a No Deal.

  63. rose
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    We watched it to the end. It was, as Bevin would have said, “clitch after bloody clitch.”

    The Conservative MPs were foppish buffoons and Gisela and Kate Hoey barely got a look in. The Leave organizers were sinister, near criminals, bending our minds with technology. Leave voters were angry, stupid, and uninformed, with no ethnic minorities and no young people.

    There was no hint that this was a David/Goliath contest. The government side were represented as decent, gentlemanly, and no suggestion was made of the abuses we all saw in real life – using the civil service, national think tanks, big business organizations, and various international bodies, briefing the different campaigning organizations together every day, extending the registration process by two days, sending a £9 million leaflet, overspending, etc etc. Oliver in particular was absurdly miscast, but then he was the author of the book on which it was based, and he advised all the way through. So he comes out more as a Cameron figure than what he actually is!

    Quite right about George Osborne. He played a huge part. He even turned a member of my family by saying we could always have another referendum to come out, but once we had voted out we would never get a chance to go back in!

    Thank goodness you weren’t in the film. But it is a sign of their deep ignorance that you weren’t.

  64. miami.mode
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    The programme seemed to me to have been written by a peevish Remainer.

    My mind to leave the EU was made up prior to the adoption of the euro.

  65. Mactheknife
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    John Redwood. Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability, and I want you to know that we are with you. In watching this tripe you have done us a great service and saved us from dealing with the tiresome luvvie Cumberbatch and the metropolitan media types in general.

    Now I’m off to follow my passion of car sticker collecting. I hear Bercow’s wife has a good collection.

    • Edward2
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

      great post mac

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      Mactheknife. Giggle, giggle. Nice to have a laugh. thank you.

    • TheyWontCrushBrexit
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

      Bercow was unaware of that “car sticker”.

      He refuses to use his booster seat and so can’t see the sticker.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

        Brilliant comment, Wont crush Brexit

  66. Lookalike
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    First thing after 29 march I am going to remove all mention of the Eu from my passport then I am going to iron on plastic cover..colour blue..can get in the hardware shop

  67. rose
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    He is also reckless. If he and his co-conspirators scupper an orderly exit on WTO terms, then they may bring about a disorderly one.

  68. Gongoozler
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    How interesting that so many here are prepared to comment on the programme and yet admit to not having watched it!

    When I was a little boy I sometimes used to put my fingers in my ears and hum when somebody said something I did not want to hear.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

      Gongooler I didn’t need to watch it. The trailers told me enough. Bilge with a capital B.

  69. margaret
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    I watched’ Alias Grace C/O Netflix , The drama explored the plight of women in past centuries with the maid servant protagonist Grace as the central figure. It simply highlighted the position that if men , women and others are to achieve; then they musn’t give up on their independence.

  70. Denis Cooper
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    That weasel David Lidington is at it again, but the DUP see straight through his deceit.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/north-to-get-veto-if-backstop-triggered-uk-minister-says-1.3752297

    “North to get ‘veto’ if backstop triggered, UK minister says”

    “The British cabinet office minister David Lidington said the proposal amounted to giving the Northern Assembly a “veto”.”

    But DUP deputy leader Nigel Dodds immediately points out:

    “The Assembly would not be able to override UK international legal obligations as the backstop provisions would be in the treaty”

    Moreover:

    https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/stormont-would-have-veto-over-eu-rules-under-british-proposals-on-brexit-backstop-37696009.html

    “Leo Varadkar has said it would not be acceptable for Northern Ireland to have a veto over conditions attached to the backstop.

    Speaking in Ethiopia, Mr Varadkar said he had not been fully briefed on the position paper published by the British government today which indicated Stormont would be given a veto over new EU laws if the so-called backstop is triggered.

    “The existing Irish protocol does provide for an input by the Northern Ireland Assembly already but I don’t think we could have a situation whereby the Northern Ireland Executive or Assembly had a veto power because that would essentially give one of the two communities a veto power over the other and that would create a difficulty,” he said.”

    Obviously from his point of view it is not only acceptable but essential that Dublin has a veto over any future arrangements between the UK and the EU, as it does, but it would never be acceptable to the Irish government for Belfast to have a veto.

    Somehow this basic point has been entirely missed by commentators in the UK media, who choose to focus on the present suspension of the Assembly.

    • rose
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

      At present Sinn Fein are able to hold all the other parties and communities to ransom by bringing the Assembly down and keeping it down, courtesy of Tony Blair.

  71. Posted January 9, 2019 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Sir John the war started in 1962. Sir Piers Debenham stood against the Conservatives in Dorset on the Common Market issue. He was sent to Coventry and his daughters claim it killed him. Many great men and women have fought for Brexit all their lives, both Tory and Labour. One day we will remember them in an appropriate manner. Hero’s all!

  72. Dominic
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    May, Bercow and Grieve are working together to nobble Brexit. All three are a threat to British democracy and threaten the integrity and diminishing level of trust we have in Westminster politicians

    A giant of a politician needs to rise up and swat these flies away to save our country, our democracy and our parliament

  73. Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    Here is a note to the Remainers:-
    This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
    This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
    This other Eden, demi-paradise,
    This fortress built by Nature for herself
    Against infection and the hand of war,
    This happy breed of men, this little world,
    This precious stone set in the silver sea,
    Which serves it in the office of a wall
    Or as a moat defensive to a house,
    Against the envy of less happier lands,–
    This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.
    This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
    This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
    This other Eden, demi-paradise,
    This fortress built by Nature for herself
    Against infection and the hand of war,
    This happy breed of men, this little world,
    This precious stone set in the silver sea,
    Which serves it in the office of a wall
    Or as a moat defensive to a house,
    Against the envy of less happier lands,–
    This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.

    William Shakespeare, “King Richard II”, Act 2 scene 1
    Greatest English dramatist & poet (1564 – 1616)

    • Nigel Seymour
      Posted January 10, 2019 at 10:50 am | Permalink

      Superb!!

  74. Gary Rollo
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Delighted to see Parliament seize control from Mrs May today. I am sure Mr Redwood will want to salute Mr Grieve, Ms Soubry etc. At last Parliament is calling the shots

  75. Simon Coleman
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    It’s very easy for the media to be patronizing about Leave voters when they get their ideas from…patronizing wannabe populist politicians like yourself.

    • Edward2
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

      You sound like a childish heckler rather than someone with opinions they want to air.
      Very sad

  76. Simon Coleman
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    How could any representation of Bernard Jenkin be accurate?!

    • Edward2
      Posted January 9, 2019 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

      One which represents him properly and mirrors his views and attitudes will plainly be accurate.

  77. bigneil
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    After watching the Brexit program I hope you found time to watch Wednesday’s “Undercover Big Sting” on Ch5. Four immigrants – all here and committing crime. An Asian man, been here 13 years, openly says he has never worked, never paid a bill, obviously can use the NHS etc – selling fake Credit cards, Fake UK driving licenses, Fake anything Fake documents – with all the dangerous possibilities that entails. 13 years living on the taxpayer. Another was an immigrant woman from Lithuania who was selling stuff that should ONLY be sold in a pharmacy. A Chinese man bragging about fake dvds and sticking a tax-free £1k+ a DAY in his pocket- and offering fake tobacco laced with poison. And another selling Fake I-Phones. ALL immigrants enriching this country with their criminal activities, while living off our taxes.
    Meanwhile, the M6 was closed for a while because a load of illegals had been discovered in the back of a lorry – -how many decent English people had their days screwed up due to this? – – Immigrants – – beneficial??? – etc ed

  78. Paul H
    Posted January 9, 2019 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    I had been looking forward to it, but in the end it quickly became obvious that many of the protagonists were being played for laughs (Spitting Image, Dead Ringers, Comic Strip, etc.) with facile caricatures. This was particularly egregious for Farage and Banks, but applied to many of the others. Seeing Elliot presented as some kind of wet fish also did not ring true.

  79. Captain Peacock
    Posted January 10, 2019 at 2:39 am | Permalink

    War is the right word its war against Brexit it has come to something when the Irish feel they can bully the UK as if we give a toss about them.
    Yet May takes it all not once have I heard her fight back can you see Margaret Thatcher sitting back and talking all this.

  80. David Webb
    Posted January 10, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    I watched it. I agree with Sir John’s criticisms, and those made by others close to what actually happened.

    It was drama, and when drama messes too much with the facts on which it’s based, it’s usually for the worse (as with Finest Hour and the absurd Tube scene). So Douglas Carswell – an MP who knew his constituency inside out – got portrayed as someone who was taken aback at finding some of the people in their Clacton homes.

    Nevertheless, there were plus points. The show was essentially about Benedict Cumberbatch playing Dominic Cummings … and when you have the big star playing the central character, the audience will tend to side with that person.

    It’s an entertaining programme … if you’re not watching it out of principle, or through fear of getting annoyed at Remain drivel, just give it a go (but keep Sir John’s remarks, and Dan Hannan’s, in mind).

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