Sir William Cash, I and others opposed the delay to our exit from the EU when the government embarked on it. We complained about the way the government agreed to the delay on the terms offered by the European Council and rushed it through in UK law by a Statutory Instrument that was not even debated. Yesterday, after much delay and argument, the government allowed Sir William a ninety minute debate in a committee where there was a secure opposition and government majority to approve the Statutory Instrument anyway. I am grateful to him for securing this debate and for submitting an important legal case about the way the government pushed through delay to our exit.
Many of us attended the Committee though we had not been included as members of it because we wished to put the case against delay, and to support Sir William’s legal case concerning the imperfections of the Statutory Instrument which in his view made it void. In the Commons any MP can attend and speak at a committee, though only those made members of the committee can vote. Time did not permit speeches from most of those wishing to speak, though a series of lively interventions made sure the case for exit did not go unheard. I was allowed a couple of minutes at the end of the proceedings.
I said that it was sad day for Parliament when something of this magnitude fell to be debated in a small committee over just 90 minutes, As it entails the spending of additional £7bn or more on EU contributions, and submits us for many more months to EU laws and requirements, it should be debated by the whole House and voted on by every MP. I drew attention to the growing gap between many members of the public and Parliament over honouring the referendum decision. Many voters believe MPs should keep their pledges from the 2017 General Election when both Conservative and Labour promised to get us out of the EU by 29 March 2019 in accordance with the laws Parliament passed and the wording of the EU Treaty. I explained why our democracy needs us just to get on with it, to leave. When we voted to renounce the EU Treaty we did not vote to lock ourselves into two new Treaties.
The conventional media decided to ignore these heated and important exchanges between pro Brexit MPs and the combined ranks of the Conservative and Labour establishments. Labour simply failed to speak up for leaving and would not oppose the government.
May 21, 2019
Sir John,
£7 billion spent in 90 minutes.
Cost to fix frozen pensions £500 million.
Could the government arrange a six and a half minute committee meeting to fix this problem?
May 21, 2019
£7 billion is all the taxes raised for one year from about half a million average people. All thrown away after 90 minutes of discussion by MPs. Half a million people working for perhaps 800 hours each just to raise that amount of tax (before they keep any of their earning themselves at all).
Is it any wonder we have some problems with productivity?
May 21, 2019
Another reason we have productivity problems is the huge increase laws and lawyers and of course similar areas like health and safety, employment laws, tax compliance and planning …… so many people doing things that are largely unproductive distracting people from productive work. A huge burden on the productive.
The BBC actually has a fairly sensible Reith Lecturer for a change (Radio 4 today) – Jonathan Sumption (this despite being a lawyer) – he did however read History first – which is usually a good sign I find. (Though Physics, Maths or Engineering are rather better still).
May 21, 2019
‘Productivity’ is not a problem; the fact that people don’t understand economics and economists don’t understand it either is the problem.
Measures of productivity are of various types: partial, multi-factor and total. Measures such as GDP as labour productivity are partial, they apply only one output (and sometimes one input) – as in calculating productivity for a firm/process as ‘value added’.
It is a serious error to try to pretend that this equates to the productivity of the workers, since the effectiveness / effort of the workforce is not being considered.
And yet we see this being stated by MPs time and again – a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
When all outputs and inputs are included in the productivity measure it is called a total productivity measure (including more than one, but not all, is knows as a multi-factor measure).
Take an example. If GDP is an indication of productivity that suggests that if you raise income taxes, GDP will increase so everyone suddenly became more productive. Without doing anything different ion their jobs…
Really? No, of course not. I truth, increasing tax would such a disincentive as to reduce effort and therefore reduce productivity. And to change behaviour such that people found ways to be liable to less tax.
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear – especially regarding the flawed understanding of productivity in our current group of MPs and media.
May 21, 2019
Hammond and Rudd’s comments over the past two days show why the fake Conservative are done. You can no longer trust them. There are a minority few but they have remained loyal to a party wedded to betray the nation on the biggest democratic vote in history. Mayhabs Servitude Treaty was voted down by the biggest margin in history now allowed to come back on worse terms for a fourth time! She should have resigned after ten biggest loss in parliamentary history, if not got sacked. Last week the ruling Tory 1922 committee wanted her stay!
Now we anticipate Mayhab will offer “temporary customs union” and some form of referendum if voted for by parliament! She is the most dishonest and worse PM in history.
May 21, 2019
Indeed May is making it worse and worse. The UK needs more employment red tape, an EU customs union lock in and more & more green crap lunacy like it needs a hole in the head.
I see the the BBC Physics pin up boy “Brian Cox” says Spending money on rockets is not futile (Telegraph yesterday). Mars has a place in out future.
Well perhaps, but rather a long term investment Brian. You invest your money on it Brian – not mine please. I suppose these rocket ‘investments” would almost make HS2 look like good value. Needless to say Cox has misguided “BBC think” views on Climate Alarmism too – rather unlike most sensible physicists.
May 21, 2019
So it came to pass, Caroline Bell, AKA civil servant, always said it would come to this style of betrayal that she has laid out today. This is not Brexit.
Mayhab fails to accept her betrayal trying to blame others. She and she alone extended beyond 29/03/2019 no one else, not govern,want, not cabinet not parliament. Only Mayhab. She is the most dishonest PM in history. How about a referendum on her, thereby giving the public the right to decide what her party has not the courage to do.
Why are so called leave ministers still in government?
May 21, 2019
I’d really like to know your opinion, John (sir!), what the media might have chosen not to cover this important event.
It’s a curious thing… Do they think the public isn’t interested? Are they directed as to what can be published … and if so, why?
Can you give us your opinion?
Thank you.
May 21, 2019
No deal used to be called leaving the EU.
Nick Timothy writes a very good article in the Sun about what Tory strategy is required against the left of New Labour stance the current fake Tories position.
For example, Rudd and co write in the Guardian about Climate change being on,par with anti terrorism. Quite offensive when she was,responsible for two atrocities on her watch where people died and where the Manchester one was through insecure borders! Not enough she lost 56,000 illegal immigrants, the day after told police chiefs any request for money would fall on deaf ears. The worse murder rate and knife crime for decade’s where this week it reached 100 knife crime deaths for the year to date!
Today we read British steel is on the brink of collapse with the loss of 25,000 jobs because of EU energy policy, environment, industrial and state aid policies apply and the UK is powerless to help because of EU rules and laws and Rudd and co think Climate is on par with terrorism. At a time when Germany, China and Asia burn coal like it is not going out of fashion! Javid had this problem when he was on his jolly to Australia a few years ago and realised he and the country we’re powerless to do anything against EU rules and laws! Out of touch Tories, just by about hundred miles or so.
We read how the Tory leadership and by articles written by them give the impression All is okay. It is fine to spend £150 million on elections they promised would not take place or a few weeks ago Mayhab told us it would be unacceptable! They think the public will forget the biggest betrayal in political history and move on!
May 21, 2019
In truth Hope leaving the EU was NEVER called no deal. In 2016 all the leavers told us what a great deal we’d get. Never a whisper we would leave without a deal. Leave.EU’s leaflets in 2016 said explictly that Article 50 wouldn’t even be triggered until a deal was agreed with the EU. Whatever leaving the EU means, it cannot mean no deal. That is why Parlaiment is blocking no deal.
May 21, 2019
Helena, the Withdrawal Agreement is not a deal.
We haven’t even started to negotiate a deal with the EU.
We can leave without signing the WA or leave having signed it.
The day after we have finally left we begin a process towards a deal with the EU.
There is no such thing as “no deal” because we leave and carry on trading with all world nations under WTO rules.
May 21, 2019
Helena
Sorry you should pay more attention. EVERY SINGLE one of the remaining supporting politicians including the PM told us we would trigger A50 the day after the referendum and leave 2 years later . You really have zero credibility. I would post the video of him saying it but its not allowed on here
The EU ‘s own rules , you know the institution you voted for their rules say you leave THEN negotiate . No deal is a great deal. We can talk FTAs some other time , if the EU is still there
May 21, 2019
No. We were always told about a trade deal known as ‘the deal’. It was never a Withdrawal Agreement and never ever was it her servitude plan that she labeled ‘the deal’. She substituted the trade deal to be known as her deal. A deceit.
May 21, 2019
Get out of the EU cleanly, go for cheap on demand energy, scrap the Paris accord, scrap carbon credits, kill Ed Milliband’s insane climate change act, cut taxes, relax employment laws and all the other damaging red tape – it is not hard to see what needs to be done to improve the economy and become competitive.
Hammond & May’s agenda is alas the complete opposite. Can I even bear to listen to the dire robotic socialist PM pushing her mad W/A bill at circa 4.00pm today. No one currently in Cabinet pushing this lunacy is suitable to be May’s replacement.
May 21, 2019
LL
“kill Ed Milliband’s insane climate change act,”
lmao…..that statement invites a suggestion that wouldn’t be allowed on here.
May 22, 2019
Hi Pominoz
What a great suggestion and it is so nice to see someone else make the point about frozen pensions. We Frozen Pensioners don’t get much support on this Forum. . After 16 years, my wife and I find our UK State Pension is now worth very little despite all the years we paid in for it. We live in Canada. When I first mentioned it, I got knocked down by Lifelogic !!
May 21, 2019
I note Gordon Brown who cost the country as taxpayer a fortune and then like a coward and a traitor to his party’s promises signed the Lisbon Treaty behind a screen is making disgraceful smears against the Brexit Party. He needs to take a long look in the mirror. How many Labour donors were given peerages? What gave him the right to give away our taxes to bribe Scotland?
May 21, 2019
Hope….you don’t even mention the catastrophic benefits give away pretending to ensure children escape poverty. The reality was benefit hand-outs to secure votes for Labour. Who is going to vote against them when you keep getting hand-outs without ever needing to work, or move to find work, which is exactly what tens of thousands of EU workers are doing coming here. The honest praiseworthy ones add to our labour force, the few (?) enjoy benefits and the most tolerant country to live in.
May 21, 2019
It was not a sad day for Parliament. It was simply Parliamentary process. You are sad only because you didn’t get your own way. Tough. You are in a tiny minority. Your no-deal scorched-earth views are rejected by 600+ MEPs as extreme. That’s parliamentary democracy for you
May 21, 2019
Since when did democracy give 500 people the right to overrule the vote of 17.4million people?
How very europhilish
May 21, 2019
Unfortunately, we lend them the “right” every five years. We allow them to lie, scheme, cheat and fiddle as much as they want to (or can get away with) within that time period.
Thankfully, we also take back that “right” at the end of those five years, if not sooner. Next time round I rather suspect a record number of our existing representatives will not be returning to Parliament.
What a joyous day that will be.
May 21, 2019
Julie…If I thought it would have an impact I’d be down on my knees every day praying to be rid of the majority of MPs, all parties included.
May 21, 2019
J Bush. Don’t you mean how very childish?
May 21, 2019
We are not for no deal, but no deal is clearly far better than May’s putrid £39 billion handcuff deal. A better deal (or indeed several deals and agreements) will inevitably follow once we have left while retaining out £39 billion.
May 21, 2019
If the Remain supporting MPs (including the PM and Cabinet) shared your attitude of “it’s tough if you’re on the wrong side of a democratic vote” the UK would be out of the EU now.
May 21, 2019
Dear Emily–Yes, that is parliamentary democracy for you and what a pathetic sorry sight it is. What we want is more direct democracy so that we can stop paying attention to what people say, many of whom have no claim to intelligence or judgement or the ability or desire to represent those who elected them. Many might be good at kissing babies or have a nice pair of legs but not much else. Parliament is well past its sell-by date.
May 21, 2019
Erm…
True in parliament.
The big question is this does Sir John represent the views of his constituents? And the even bigger one (for us) is whether or not he speaks for the people of the United Kingdom.
We’ll see on Thursday won’t we.
May 21, 2019
Mike…..I’m not sure what you are getting at. In this system aa party MP, unless IND, is nominated on the basis of the whip, and is expected to vote with the government. The PM is voted for by them, the PM selects the Cabinet. Ordinarily that method is a sort of democracy, unfortunately we have a stubborn, grasping, lying PM, and a party of MPs who ignore the will of the people, not just their own supporters. That doesn’t seem to be a democracy. Turning to Sir John, he always behaves for the good of the nation, although recently that can be questioned over the inability to exert force to remove the PM we ever had. Sir John has voted for the will of the people, and several times has been re-elected with handsome majorities. The vote on Thursday may well indicate extreme dissatisfaction with the PM and Government actions. Sir John has fought them all the way. In what way could the result indicate whether he speaks for the people? You lost me there!
May 21, 2019
Dear Emily, I would not call 17.4m+ [1] a “tiny minority”, whose opinions our host and his eurosceptic colleagues are representing.
What has the UK’s post EU membership policy got to do with 600 odd MEPs?!
OK, so a majority of MEPs wish to call our hosts post Brexit policies extreme, may I trump your democracy hand, 17.4m+ UK voters believe that EU’s policy is ‘extreme’.
The tide is in favour of the eurosceptics. Funny how those MPs who want the UK to Remain, such as Chuka Umunna (on Marr Sunday) are now making any excuse NOT to hold another referendum, suggesting that there is now not enough time, yet I’m sure if CUK, the LDs and others were to ask the EU they would grant another (short) extension expressly for a second referendum, so time can not be the real reason for this about-face by Chuka, lack of support perhaps?
That’s
parliamentarydemocracy for you…[1] and increasing, many who voted Remain now back Leaving, either because of the way the EU has acted during the A50 process or because they understand the substance of the WA.
May 21, 2019
You appear to only care about democracy and majorities when you can get your own way Emily ! The 2016 vote and the rise of the Brexit Party show that the Merkle Treaty is not wanted here and it is your attitude that is ‘extreme’. The World trades on WTO terms !
By the way we have MPs in the British Parliament.
May 21, 2019
Leaving with nothing was explicitly denied as a possibility throughout he referendum just as an outright Brexit bonus was promised . There is no mandate for it .
The Brexit Party is about even with the explicitly anti Brexit Parties and to e it seems likely the votes for Labour are largely remain as are some Conservative voters. That looks in line with long term polling showing a majority against Brexit
May 21, 2019
Who mentioned “leaving with nothing” as an outcome?
Quite ridiculous Newmania.
May 21, 2019
No Deal if you prefer, exclusion form the single market immediate hardship for exporters ( and it is only this visible disaster they care about ).
No terms for dealing with the rest of the world , huge risks for the currency inflation jobs and much more , none of which anyone voted for
Are there no limits to your irresponsible arrogance ?
reply The USA and China have no FTAs with the EU but have access to the single market for their exports!
May 22, 2019
@Newmania; “No deal” would mean not even WTO rules! There is no such thing as a ‘no deal’, the expression was dreamed up by Remain to try and scare, its meaningless drivel.
As our host said in reply, there are plenty of very successful economies who trade with the EU but have no FTA.
May 21, 2019
You seem to forget the dictation of the WA was taken by Remainers, not Leavers who would have negotiated properly and asked for a Free Trade Deal which May never did. It was never a real negotiation. Don’t say again that Davis was in charge, you know that is not true which is why 3 of them resigned. Barnier offered a FTA last year but it was not taken up even for discussion. You have a very short memory span but facts are of no consequence to Remainers looking to score what they think is a point.
May 21, 2019
600 MEPs ? Your unconscious Euro-fanatical bias shows, MPs you probably mean.
May 21, 2019
The Tories are toast. This is because 17. 5 million did not vote for any kind of deal.
May 21, 2019
And most of us have always been well aware that leaving the EU was never all about trade.
Our ‘representatives’ are acting as if we don’t know that. We don’t all have a narrow and ill-informed ‘remain’ mindset.
May 21, 2019
Emily,
Yet most MPs voted for holding a referendum, then they voted to pass Article 50, then they stood on manifestos promising to leave the EU.
Now they do their best to stop the UK leaving the EU.
The delays are just an attempt by pro EU MPs to stop us leaving.
Just think what the UK could have done with that £7 billion.
PS
The Withdrawal Agreement is not a deal and it is not actually leaving.
There is no trade deal contained in it.
So tell us why the earth will not get scorched the day after we sign it.
May 21, 2019
Indeed. Leaving without a trade deal is guaranteed by the stance of the EU.
May 21, 2019
Emily Jones,
I think the WA is the scorched earth policy of the EU. It gives the UK uncosted obligations in the future, it gives the ECJ an onoing role in many areas after the transition period for a number of years, it gives the possibility of an in perpetuity backstop (risk confirmed by the Attorney General)…this is the scorched earth in which the UK is to negotiate a future relationship.
Even ignoring the shocking situation above, the WA submits the UK i.e. 66million people, to no democratic representation for 21 to 45 months (4 years!) of the transition period. A PM, Government and Parliament that wishes to take laws with no representation is beyond polite description. Taking a people that voted for independence into colony status whilst negotiating that independence is morally corrupt. It is deeply worrying for the UK that there are people who are willing to ignore the democratic referendum, that there are people who are willing to blindly sign away representation, that are people willing to not prepare for independence. Some might not like the Hoeys, Redwoods or Farages, but these are the people that are consistent with democracy. It is tragic for the future of UK’s democracy that those who dislike the above ‘democrats’ did not hold the PM and Government to account in developing the WA. We now have remain parties (libdems, green, chuk) explicitly standing against the democratic referendum, we have a Labour party with no and all positions, we have individuals throwing milkshakes, accusations of right wing extremism, and accusations of corrupt funding to try to damage the only democratically consistent choice at EU elections.
Irrespective of original position at the time of referendum, many (individuals, politicians, business leaders …) need to reflect deeply on the value of democracy and it’s relationship to their choices and behaviour. Sadly they are not. Throwing away democracy as an act of stubbornness is carelessly frightening.
May 21, 2019
… moreover the chance of being in an unrepresented Turkey-trap plus Customs Union. One despairs for democracy.
May 21, 2019
Spoken like a true europhile. Please tell us all what deal May and co have other than to bind us to the Eu until such time as we concede to their terms and even then be still hamstrung. The Eu stated when Article 50 was submitted they will not negotiate a trade deal till we have left, so surely to just leave and then negotiate without having your hands tied is the better choice and would enable us to make trade deals with the rest of the world at the same time. Unless of course you do not wish to honour the referendum and keep us tied to the Eu.
May 21, 2019
Pray explain why it is ‘extreme’ for us to want the UK to again become an independent country, as it was for centuries before politicians lied to us, cheated us and dragged us ever deeper into the EU at such truly horrendous cost? Why is it that remainers can only castigate leavers as extremists, little Englanders, racist etc etc? What is it that you fear from UK democratic independence from the German hegemony called the EU?
May 21, 2019
Thank you for posting this, ‘Emily’. A timely reminder before EP polling day of why that ‘tiny minority’ needs to make itself heard again, to tell the arrogant, entitled, anti-democrats who have spent the last three years blocking Brexit that we are still 17.4 million, that we haven’t gone away, and that we will be free.
May 21, 2019
This is to misrepresent events. Mrs May delayed the Brexit day by getting the EU to agree to it. No one else. It was not approved by Cabinet beforehand still less by the HoC, despite the fact the date was enshrined in
law. The nature of the SI was previously challenged by Cash. This after the event Committee debate is the reason why people like myself voted for Brexit. It was to stop the UK legislature being treated with such contempt in this way.
May 21, 2019
You mean a highly corrupted parliamentary process Emily. The extension beyond March 29 was agreed secretly in Brussels without any deference to the procedures required by the European Union(Notification of Withdrawal)Act 2017. Before any such agreement, the House of Commons should have had the opportunity to debate the statutory instrument required to give effect to the delay. It is quite inappropriate that any perceived need for delegated legislation, should be passed into law by the illegitimate use of the Royal Prerogative, and[dubiously]legitimized ex post facto.
May 21, 2019
Emily
Its you who are having hissy fits because you were soundly beaten by democracy. Go and cry somewhere else. The rest of us are fighting a rearguard action to defend democracy
May 21, 2019
Denigrating someone for their views, does not mean you have won an alternative argument. If there are risks to a No Deal situation, it’s the job of Parliament to formulate a way to mitigate them. Nothing is risk-free.
As for your views that JR is part of a tiny minority, may I suggest you take note of the overwhelming public support for The Brexit Party’s policy of leaving the suffocating embrace of the EU under WTO terms? That will be The Peoples’ democracy for you.
May 21, 2019
@Emily. There’s every chance we will have a new “Parliamentary Democracy” in the not too distant future. Whether that happens, will be a matter for us plebs ….. the true democracy.
May 21, 2019
Emily Jones
Utter rude, self indulgent nonsense.
Leave WON!
May 21, 2019
You are a sad undemocratic cry baby ignoring the will of the 17.4 million who voted to leave the single market, customs union and control of the ECJ. An end to freedom of movement and massive payments for an annual £80 billion deficit. We want out of the undemocratic racket and return to WTO.
May 21, 2019
Whilst I might agree that leaving without some sort of managed transfer of responsibility is not ideal, to call it scorched earth is just absurd. Perhaps you were trying to amuse us. Leaving the e.u. is more like moving to a new house in a new district, starting a new life.
May 21, 2019
……”600+ MEPs as extreme”….a Freudian slip perhaps?
However, never a truer word has been spoken. Remoaners asininity is limitless it seems!
May 21, 2019
Are congratulatios due Emily? At my time of reading you had 19 direct replies ( I make 20 ) to your post – It may be a record.
May 21, 2019
Emily
It is a sad day when someone sensible, like you, can write non-sense.
Go back and listen gain to the promises made by D Cameron, etc. Listen to the many saying it was a ‘once in a lifetime decision,’ and that if we decide to leave, ‘we will leave.’ We did decide to leave, despite those obvious attempts to scare us into wanting to remain.
Go back to the 2017 election manifestos. Do they have no meaning? If they don’t it’s a worse day than you can possibly realise.
When you’ve done that, go and look at the Lisbon treaty and see what it means for this country. It means being part of a European super state run by unelected officials. Who are they? Not the 700+ MEPs we are about to elect.
It will mean we HAVE to have the Euro, we will not be able to control our borders. We will not be able to control our money and boost our economy when needed. It will mean we have a parliament which is totally hamstrung.
There will be no point in voting anymore.
Maybe you think it’s a good idea to be part of a ‘United States of Europe?’ The problem with that, the model of the USA is not the one we will be following, it will be more like the USSR before the wall came down.
This is very, very serious, and it’s amazing remain got 48%. It should have been 0%!
We want to leave the EU. We want to be part of Europe but as a free, sovereign state, if parliament fails to deliver that for us, as we voted for, woe betide them.
May 21, 2019
Jones
Errm…..I think you’ll find it’s remainers who are the cry babies.
May 21, 2019
Afraid democracy within our various Governments has been failing badly over the last couple of decades, but this Parliament and Prime Minister appears to have taken it to another level.
Thank you and others for speaking up, shame upon those who were part of the fix, few seem to have realised that every month of delay adds £1 billion to the EU coffers and our bill, which is especially galling given the EU are not making any noise about moving on their position, and May has nothing more to offer other than even more capitulation, whilst Mp’s have been, and will be away on holiday again shortly.
All this and yet still the majority in your Party do not seem to want to do anything about your leader.
I hope the Country really shows its contempt for all of the main Party leaders on Thursday.
May 21, 2019
@Alan Jutson; “I hope the Country really shows its contempt for all of the main Party leaders on Thursday.”
Thursday is not a protest vote, we need to elect effective MEPs, not toothless tigers or EU sycophants, in case Brexit goes belly up (short or long term), few on this site want us to remain but if that does become the reality we need to be able to effectively oppose, and that means building bridges, not burning them, within the EP and those in the ECR and EPP, groups, and even those of more moderate left.
Those whop think that UKIP or TBP, and their fellow europhobe parties across the EU28, are anything more than toothless tigers really do not understand how the EP functions.
May 21, 2019
Jerry
Did I say it was a protest vote ?
I understand perfectly well that those who get elected will need to serve time as an MEP.
Perhaps all of those in other Countries who have actually been protesting over recent months will also want their MEP’s to vote for change from within, as indeed do I should we actually remain for any lengthy period.
May 21, 2019
Alan Jutson; “Did I say it was a protest vote ?”
Yes! How else would it be showing “contempt for all of the main Party leaders”?
May 21, 2019
Jerry
Because they are showing their contempt to the public for the referendum result !
What goes around comes around.
You reap what you sow !
May 21, 2019
Alan Jutson
No point arguing with him Alan, he’s one of the remain side’s internet trolls.
May 21, 2019
@Steve; You are a great advert for UKIP style democracy, anyone who disagrees with the party line is a troll…
May 21, 2019
Given our current MEPs’ record of defending British interests – low to non-existent (see Article 15&17 passing this year, etc.) – it would be hard for their replacements to be any more toothless. Sending a new group who despise the EU project makes it clear that Britain wants out, in a way our Prime Minister and current representatives have failed to, and a result which May cannot claim supports her deal.
Given the limited power of the Parliament compared to commision and council, all the British people can do to send that message is elect those MEPS who genuinely decry the project. If other countries were to do the same, it would either force reform or reveal the pointlessness of the whole body, to the same end.
May 21, 2019
@AI; But who won the last EP elections, yes the toothless tigers you complain of…! Why would any of the more EU MEPs & groups accepting choose to help those wishing to destroy the EU.
May 21, 2019
If our current ones (who wish to preserve the EU) are toothless as you said, saying we shouldn’t vote for different ones because they might be just as useless makes little sense.
If anything, its a better reason to do so, as there’s a chance the new ones might not be useless!
May 21, 2019
@AI; According to a certain boastful Mr Farage, UKIP won the 2014 EP elections, and with a total of 24 UK MEP elected indeed they did!
The 19 Conservatives and 1 UUP MEPs did more for Brexit or protecting the UK interests within EU than UKIP ever did because they were able to work within the larger ECR group and also the largest of all groups, the centre-right wing EPP.
May 21, 2019
Oh yes – Thursday IS a ”protest vote”.
In any event, what makes you so sure that those Brexit Party representatives are not less ”effective” than career politicians?
Aren’t we continually told that the EP actually is just a talking shop? That real power resides elsewhere with your unelected EU overlords?
May 21, 2019
@L Jones; Sorry but you do not seem to have a first clue how the EP works, if you did you would understand how toothless small groups or non-aligned MEPs are, unless they can work with the other larger groups, that is why the ECR or Greens-EFA are effective but the likes of the EFDD or ENF are not.
I’m not doubting that the EU and thus the EP is woefully undemocratic but if all we are going to do is send ineffective MEPs to the parliament what is the point of sending any whilst still a member of the EU?
Sorry, but the EP and EU are still laughing at Mr Farage (remember his post referendum ‘speech’ in the EP?), and they are now laughing at the UK too….
May 21, 2019
That is a rather circular argument Jerry.
You say we should vote for main group candidates and not the Brexit Party because they are a small and ineffective group in the European Parliament.
Then you say these smaller party groups can be effective if they work with larger groups.
Then you say the European Parliament has little real powers.
I think maybe you might consider the trends in other EU member nations and see voters in other nations voting for parties that want real reforms and radical changes to the way the EU is organised.
By voting for these kind of parties, those of us who have wanted that change and reform for many years can see just a little bit of concern on the faces of the Commission
Perhaps soon, those little groups will become larger groups.
We shall see what happens after the EU elections are revealed.
May 21, 2019
jerry…..they can laugh as much as like, but I liken it to the ship is sinking while they make merry, we anticipate the dire event coming along, and are checking lifebelts and ensure the lifeboats will work.
May 21, 2019
@Fred H; “I liken it to the ship is sinking while they make merry”
Indeed UKIP’s boat has sunk and TBP’s boat is already listing…and yes I bet the EC are very merry.
But love is blind, as is faith, carry on climbing about a listing boat if you are intent on drowsing in self pity when your ill-judged vote(s) sink Brexit.
May 22, 2019
@Edward2; Not circular at all, assuming you understand how the EP works. Yes any of the smaller groups could seek the help of a larger more powerful group, but why would any group that is (basically) supportive of the EU’s very existence offer their support to groups whose de facto aim is to destroy the EU?!
Eurosceptic trends in the rest of the EU are irrelevant unless large enough to create a single powerful group, there is no signs of that happening, the eurosceptic factions are to diverse to co-exist as a single group, the EFDD & ENF combined (2014-19 EP) would have had 78 MEPs, that would have made them the third largest group, above that of the ALDE group with 68…
May 22, 2019
jerry…..UKIP did rather well in the last EU election, and if it were not FPTP in the UK, would have many seats in the Hof C. Since Farage, who speaks directly without fudge, lies and manipulation decided he was needed to ensure leaving once again vs the May pretence, BREXIT is doing rather well. It has a basic common ground with what was UKIP–ie…to represent those who wish to leave the EU. No hidden rules, laws, deals….just leave. Immediately after we might be able to arrange trade arrangements to suit both sides, and be able to strike beneficial deals ( yes deals) under WTO with all the other countries far and wide.
Love is blind sums up precisely what is wrong with the lock-in that the EU forces on member states. For some that strange early infatuation lingers on, but rather more come to understand what the relationship is actually about. One side tends to win.
May 22, 2019
@Fred H; Either you are looking into a crystal ball or you are referring to 2014, a lot of water over the UKIP bows since then. As for your opinion of Mr Farage, non so blind as those who choose not to see, as you said yourself, love is blind…
“For some that strange early infatuation lingers on, but rather more come to understand what the relationship is actually about”
Perhaps, but the EP is still a nice Gravy Train non the less and quite indispensable, as it is the only platform many of then have.
May 21, 2019
No it is not £7 billion at all. It s much higher, we have all the other items the U.K. Pays on a percentage basis to pay as well like the EU overseas aid, payments for Turkey, so on and so forth in addition to any yearly contribution. Hence the alleged commitments when leaving.
JR, time has come to take action against Mayhab, Hammond and co.
Why has Heseltine not been expelled when Remainer Lewis made threats to all party members?
May 21, 2019
Hope
Agreed
May 21, 2019
The government is still refusing to listen to the electorate, roll on the next GE.
May 21, 2019
Proof enough that it’s time sweep the whole lot away and get some politicians who actually represent the voters.
No money for elderly social care but £7 billion to be wasted by Brussels.
The whole establishment is a disgrace.
May 21, 2019
And no money for the defence of our country, our model railways and stopping our citizens being knifed on the streets it seems…
May 21, 2019
Agreed Mike but plenty to house etc anyone who turns up in a boat heading for the South coast. Ferried in by coastguard or Border Patrol Sea taxi, for a life on our taxes.
May 21, 2019
@Ian Wragg; “No money for elderly social care but £7 billion to be wasted by Brussels. The whole establishment is a disgrace.”
It has been thus for years, but that has not stopped you and others like you on the hard right supporting it all the time the establishment were doing your bidding – no doubt a case of “I’m alright Jack”, until know… You cite elderly social care but it wasn’t the EU, nor the traditional left for that matter, who cut funding to such services, out sourcing them to contractors, privatising them outright or expecting charities to pick up the States slack when (intimidate and extended) families reach breaking point.
May 21, 2019
Jerry,
The point is the UK pays to Brussels a NET (meaning after the rebate and money paid to the UK from the EU on various projects) of 11-12 Billion Pounds each year. This is your tax money being given to the EU to give to other countries and keep to spend on itself. This money should be spent in the UK on services for UK citizens. Joining the EU was a and is a very poor investment for the UK tax payer.
May 21, 2019
That is only the yearly contribution the figure is much high and hidden from the U.K. Taxpayer.
Jerry, you have no right to call Alan hard right because of his views. You do not know him. Simply ridiculous unsubstantiated twaddle.
May 21, 2019
@Hope; Then you have no right to call, for example, Mr Corbyn left wing, or should we be allowed to judge peoples words?
May 22, 2019
If you were to judge by words Jerry, then it is plain that Corbyn is left wing in his politics.
Alan, who has written many excellent posts on this site for many years is certainly not hard right.
I think he deserves an apology from you for your completely unjustifiable slur.
May 22, 2019
@Edward2; “If you were to judge by words Jerry, then it is plain that Corbyn is left wing in his politics.”
That was my point, judgement is relative, to you and I he is left wing, others here believe he is a Marxist, but to a true Marxist Mr Corbyn is far from even being left wing!
“I think he deserves an apology from you for your completely unjustifiable slur.”
But there is nothing wrong in being described as hard right (or hard left), I could understand people getting upset had I used either the word “Far” or “Extreme” as that would have certain connotations. It is not me who is trying to use political brickbats rather than rational arguments, nor is it me who is jumping on a opportunist bandwagon once again, is it Eddie?
May 21, 2019
@Peter Wood; Both the Labour party and LDs believe that the UK can fully fund any EU membership commitment and the NHS etc, but then they are not pushing a tax cutting agenda to win votes…
May 21, 2019
More abuse from Jerry, the one that lectures others on not being rude
“hard right” thats pathetic and juvenile
May 21, 2019
@libertarian; I take it that you can’t actually argue my point then?… You also have a funny definition of personal abuse, especially when you never seem to be overly bothered when people call others “Socialist”, even member of the Conservative party.
May 21, 2019
Jerry
“Then you have no right to call, for example, Mr Corbyn left wing”
You do not personally know anyone on here, and as for Mr Corbyn – he’ll tell you himself he’s left wing.
To call our fellow contributor ‘hard right’ is a bit out of order, and childish.
May 21, 2019
@Steve; Yes, my bad, I meant to write Marxist, and many on this site do called Mr Corbyn a Marxist (all rather childish, if I may say so…), and no he would not describe himself as one, then what about you calling me a “Remain troll” further up, after all you do not know me…
Stop throwing stones @Steve, you are living in a glass house yourself!
May 21, 2019
Steve: “To call our fellow contributor ‘hard right’ is a bit out of order, ”
We could do with one or two ‘hard right’ people in the Tory party, it might start acting like a Conservative party.
May 21, 2019
Indeed it is. Parliament is ignoring the electorate so unfortunately the whole lot needs to go and elect those who represent us. The civil serpents also needs a deep clean and change of selection processes to remove PC and replace with meritocracy!
May 21, 2019
I agree, our MPs don’t realise its not their decision, the decision as made by the people, and all they had to do was ensure we left by the 29th march. Its sad that the people think more of british democracy than the MPs do ?
May 21, 2019
The whole country is greatly indebted to Sir William Cash, you and others.
When this Parliament of Quislings is judged by history, your honourable exceptions will save it from universal condemnation.
May 21, 2019
In due course the voting public will help sort the mess out, although a better PM would not have allowed it to occur.
May 21, 2019
It is indeed a sad day to have such bad and hugely costly decisions taken in such an undemocratic way. When are we finally going to get a PM with a working compass and some vision, who is for real democracy, small government, low taxes, freedom and choice?
I see that tax to death Hammond is off to talk his usual drivel about no deal to the CBI tonight. Mays and Hammond’s treaty is not Brexit in any sense, it does not respect the referendum result, it is even worse than remaining. It is a pair of £39 billion handcuffs for furture UK governments and is hugely anti-democratic.
Time for Hammond and his 100% plus taxes (on people who dare to move home, pensions savers and landlords) to be culled. The man is an economic illiterate. Taxes are at the highest rate for 70 years and are, of themselves, hugely damaging to the economy. His version is absurdly complex and idiotic too inflicting further economic harm.
May 21, 2019
Yes government behaviour in this area has been appalling. They have descended to the level of a banana republic or was it always thus. Has Brexit just cleared some of the smoke.
I smell a rat in the orchestrated blows struck at the Brexit Party yesterday. First the possibly libelous attack by Gordon Brown. Who put him up to it, where did he get his information. Worth a legal investigation. Likewise the on cue announcement of the Electoral Commission. Who in it triggered it, where did they get their information. As an MP I would insist that their exoneration comes before Thursday if that is the case. Otherwise I smell an establishment rat. Members of the EC need to be publicly identified and made to explain their actions in court or before an HoC committee at least.
Those in the swamp are begining to sense the receeding level of water.
May 21, 2019
agricola
“Those in the swamp are begining to sense the receeding level of water”
Water ? I thought they were squirming around in their own sh** to be honest.
May 21, 2019
SI’s are indeed being used by May to circumvent Parliamentary scrutiny but I believe we are passed the stage of Parliamentary scrutiny anyway. We have now entered the stage in which the abusive duopoly that is May-Corbyn has torn up the rule book and is utterly determined to crush all opposition both within and external to Parliament
Tory Eurosceptic MPs continue to play by the rules and May and her Ministers take immense pleasure from this conformist approach.
May and her Marxist buddy Corbyn have torn up the rule book and have decided to crush the spirit of British democratic politics. They care not if they’re seen to be doing so because there’s no opposition to their disgusting and dangerous behaviour.
So what Tory Eurosceptic MPs do? They continue to play by the rules.
It is my belief that every Labour and Tory Brexit MP who aligns themselves with their own party is reneging on their duty to protect British democracy from attack by a Europhile political establishment that is now determined to crush any opposition to its Remain plan
In the real world outside of Westminster, Oxbridge, London and the Home Counties there’s a growing contempt for what we are seeing. Anger at how the State’s been infected and taken over by Europhiles planted by New Labour from 1997 and how the system’s been deliberately nobbled to protect EU membership
From the BBC right through to the Electoral Commission are all populated by liberal left, pro-EU placemen and political appointees
It is my belief that the Electoral Commission will try and find a way to disband the BP and fatally damage Farage. If they do this then democracy in the UK will become a mere veneer and the voice of the people will be silenced
May 21, 2019
Please could you provide a link to a video, or preferably a transcript.
May 21, 2019
First Delegated Legislation Committee:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegated_Legislation_Committee
Video here:
https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d7e9d4bc-621c-467a-bf22-42b02969b13b
It would be better if there was a transcript.
May 21, 2019
Good morning and thank you, Sir John an Bill Cash MP.
7000 Million pounds Sterling. That is what it has this government cost this nation. Just think of what could have been done with that money ? Disgusting!
Our exit from the EU is looking more and more a sham and, regrettably, proving President Vladarmir Putin right when he said that BREXIT will show whether or not we have a democracy.
May 21, 2019
Long before him,100+ years ago,Lenin wrote that British-style representative democracy was a sham.
May 21, 2019
“We have a former prime minister, a news release to the BBC and then the Electoral Commission saying they’re coming in tomorrow. This is direct political interference in an election campaign. It’s an establishment stitch up, it’s an outrage” says Farage.
He is surely right, just from a timing point of view (two days before polling day and for just the one party) it is an outrage. The extablishment are clearly getting rather worried.
May 21, 2019
This ‘direct political interference’ with the assumed complicity of the Electoral Commission has consequences, weakening what little is left of people’s trust in democracy.
I have noted previous comments on social media that, if you vote for the Brexit Party, make sure you use black ink, not pencil, so that your vote can’t be altered (although they can still spoil / damage / lose your voting paper so that it doesn’t count).
Maybe paranoia, but clearly some of the electorate no longer have trust in the EC to conduct elections fairly.
This can only result in failure to accept the voting result, particularly a close one; and to seek political change through means other than the ballot box.
The ‘Mother of all Parliaments’ is fast turning into a Banana Republic. It is no longer fit for purpose, and hence the Brexit Party’s campaign slogan ‘Change Politics For Good.’
Democracy, Political Reform, Establishment reform (BBC, quangos, Civil Service) have all become issues as important as leaving the EU.
For the long term health of this country it is important that the Brexit Party succeeds.
Out with the old, in with the new.
May 21, 2019
Indeed.
May 21, 2019
If you look at the 11 members of the EC not one of them has produced anything. A collection of retired civil servants,ex politicians, and ex BBC exdcutives. None of the politicians would have a love of the Brexit Party so I would treat their intervention with the greatest suspicion. Almost certainly someone with alterior motives proded them in this direction and they obliged.
May 21, 2019
James
“This ‘direct political interference’ with the assumed complicity of the Electoral Commission has consequences”
I’d say it potentially has extremely serious consequences. If they want to turn this very nasty and put the brexit issue onto the streets then they’re going the right way about it.
Then again, perhaps a good old fashioned scrap is the way to shut remainers up once and for all.
I’d be up for it.
May 21, 2019
This is one of many distortions or avoidance of telling the whole story coming from the BBC News today.
The demise of British Steel unless they secure a £75m loan from the government and the loss of 4,000 jobs and 20,000 jobs in dependent businesses. All due to the uncertainty of Brexit. The BBC failed to mention that they had already received a £175m loan, and no government would be allowed to give further financial assistance. Of course, this British Steel is not the great industry that we all remember, but a very small part of it taken on by a new company. This company was allowed to use the British Steel trading name.
Radio 4 reported the news more accurately at 7am this morning.
And then we have a far-right entrapment scandal in Austria recorded in 2017, and now released days before the EU elections.
Distorted news is fake news.
May 21, 2019
It is not just the BBC,it’s the whole of the “corporate-globalist” media across the western world.
See also the scandal about the OPCW report ommission re the supposed Syrian chemical attack last year.Who has picked up on that apart from Peter Hitchens in the MoS and RT.
May 21, 2019
I see that Hammond is saying that there is no mandate for a No Deal and that it would hijack the referendum result. Bollocks. It was leave or not leave and now poll after poll indicates the public would be happy with a No Deal. Even the words are a lie. We would leave with a WTA deal.
The no mandate is for Hammond and his EU loving mates to do all they can to keep us in.
May 21, 2019
Please can you let us know whether there will be a legal challenge to extension two as is being undertaken by Robin Tilbrook against the first extension. Thank you.
May 21, 2019
Amazing how quickly some things can be brought to bear ( out of the way of the public eye) and the leaving process goes on for ever and ever.Being disallowed to speak always infuriates myself as others do not represent accurately and somehow miss the important points.
I listened to an interview by TB yesterday evening who also thinks that given the problems we should either get cleanly out or stay in .
May 21, 2019
Give parliament a straight choice of a WTO exit or no Brexit.
If they choose no Brexit, at least we live to fight another day. We can kick out all the undemocratic MP’s from the list of those who voted to revoke, and start again.
May’s ‘deal’ is Remain. Those who vote for May’s ‘deal’ will be treated likewise. and once the reality of the ‘deal’ sets in, even the Remainers will rebel.
May 21, 2019
”…. even the Remainers will rebel.”
They won’t unless they’re in danger of losing their ”jobs”. They must therefore surely believe that May’s surrender treaty ensures that they won’t lose out. After all, with the EU in charge (as per this treaty) their ”jobs” will indeed be safe, as we won’t be ALLOWED to vote in a eurosceptic party, will we?
May 21, 2019
JR: “the government allowed Sir William a ninety minute debate in a committee where there was a secure opposition and government majority to approve the Statutory Instrument anyway.
How very nice of them, and what better way to bring Parliament further into disrepute.
We need to be keeping a tally of the additional expenditure incurred by the despicable regime. The total of it should fall squarely on their individual shoulders. Something that is unlawful should not be paid out of British tax funds.
May 21, 2019
is this brief debate available to view on Parliament TV on the Web, please?
Reply Yes, the link is in a reply to this blog
May 21, 2019
I see Hammond is going to tell the CBI that no amount of preparation in the world could prepare UK for no deal. I also read a cabal of 60 Conservative MPs will work to block Boris and block a no deal policy. This is why no-one should vote for any Conservative candidate at any time from now on, even if they are personally pro-Brexit you risk enabling the institutionally Remain Conservative Party to exercise power. We need to vote against the whole lot of them.
May 21, 2019
[…] John Redwood reports on it in his Diary today – worth reading, as always. Here’s a brief but hot clip of Mr Rees-Mogg as […]
May 21, 2019
O/T I think it is an absolute disgrace that the Electoral Commission are today investigating the funding of the Brexit Party. According to Nigel Farage they looked into the way that they were funded last week and gave them a clean bill of health. They then refused when requested to put that in writing.
Guido Fawkes yesterday has done his own investigation into the funding of Campbell’s lot. There are many claims that are only allegations – but we all know will not be investigated with the same vigour. Neither will there be anyone looking into how Chukkies Chickens are funded.
I am one of the nearly 110,000 that have registered and paid their £25. I sent a further donation of £50. Because of the way the attempts to stitch them up are going I shall send a further £50 later today. HOW DARE THEY !!! Roll on Thursday.
May 21, 2019
If you look at the report you will discover the person complaining is not familiar with how Paypal works: most Paypal business accounts automatically accept foreign currency and convert it to pounds. Other Paypal accounts simply retain balances in seperate currencies – which I don’t believe the Brexit party do as the receipt shows conversion. (The difference between currency conversion and money-laundering is quite significant.)
If a British citizen has been on holiday, works abroad, or simply holds francs/dollars/euros/etc, they could quite easily donate that currency and have them converted.
May 22, 2019
MickN….Sadly it seems we won’t know the countries’ various results until the small hours of Monday morning. I doubt any pre-result forecast for the UK regions will provide a clue. The polls do seem pretty consistent, but who knows? In many ways Monday breakfast news could be quite momentous, a breath of fresh air blowing across parliament to temporarily shift the stench of scheming over the last 3 years. Lets hope the outcome is maintained for the next GE.
May 21, 2019
It can’t be said that a small number of decent MP’s didn’t fight the government over Brexit …. Well done JR in supporting the referendum decision once again, and to Bill Cash who has been at the forefront in opposing the EU for so long now.
It should be clear by now that our political establishment is working very hard to make us subservient to the EU, having given up their British identity and become EU clones …. One still wonders how such people could so easily deny where their real loyalties should lie.
It is simply not acceptable that May gets her way – Even if the court case is won that says we have really left the EU, will the EU allow that? Will it make any difference?
May has to be kicked out Now – Not when she feels ready!
May 21, 2019
There is footage of Mr. Farage telling Bill Cash that he put party before country
over Maastricht. If the Brexit Party completely supplants UKIP, it will be that
much harder to stop Mr. Farage being the only Brexit voice. If people are
minded to vote UKIP, Mr. Farage might refuse to co-operate with them,
yet he is unlikely to, because we all know he puts country before party.
Reading the Leave EU Twitter account, most of the comments seem in favour
of the Brexit Party. I do not doubt Leave EU’s enthusiasm for the People’s Vote,
but I recall them tweeting that, under first-past-the-post, we had to vote Tory
in the 2017 general election. Notwithstanding the principled stance of a small
number of “Spartans”, how close has that election got us to becoming a vassal
state! I think of the line in A Man for all Seasons: “Don’t make trouble –
or if you must make trouble, make the sort of trouble that’s expected”. It is
now not expected that people will vote UKIP. There lies the shock value.
May 21, 2019
All pretence of the UK being a democracy has been demolished by this Government and this Parliament.
May 21, 2019
Symptomatic I am afraid of the duplicitous nature of some MPs and their complete disdain for democracy.
May 21, 2019
I think the public are unaware of the way some important decisions or proposals are dealt with ‘in committee’. We should be grateful you lift the veil on some of this political chicanery.
May 21, 2019
Can we please have an investigation into the 124,000 members of the Conservative party and 500,000 members of the Labour Party who paid £25 and £3 respectively and so are not publicly named? They could be Russians.
May 21, 2019
Doesn’t work that way it seems, as these are establishment parties, and the EC has no problem with keeping the 2 party system going…
But wasn’t the Electoral commission hot off the grid in investigating Farage – Makes you wonder what is going on, especially when MP Priti Patel provided reams of evidence against Remainer funding that was dismissed out of hand…
Just what evidence did brown supply?
May 21, 2019
We can but hope for a landslide Brexit Party victory this week.
May 21, 2019
I am hoping that Barry Legg will be successful – surely the case can be expedited through the Courts as it has such a monumental importance to the whole country?
May 21, 2019
I do not understand why leading Brexiteers in Parliament are apparently unwilling to support the Judicial Review case brought by Robin Tilbrook. From what I gather, the Barry Legg case is yet to issue proceedings and even if it did, it is not as strong as the Tilbrook case which needs the sort of funds and publicity that Gina Miller was able to raise. I assume people believe it would be politically toxic to be associated with the English Democrats even if their case has a good chance of success.
May 21, 2019
Whilst most polls have remain ahead there was a close survation poll of 49% to 47% just over a week ago and “leave at any cost” is also polling ahead of “stop Brexit” if you put it that way. I have no idea who would win a second referendum.
I think we must have one either way. 52/48 is just not enough to irreversibly turn the country upside down risking jobs services security and our children`s future.
We must also reform our system to allow the it to adjust to the new remain v leave constituencies in the future .
May 21, 2019
Just not enough? When proportion ~0.5 then the referendum that was held is a logical approach (wisdom of crowds, p~0.5, binomial distribution). If it turned out not to be close then it would have been a waste of time and money. If one of either Remain or Leave was clearly much more superior (it is a multifaceted decision) then there would have been no need for the referendum – the choice could be simply argued. On the other hand eating olives and ice-cream together is clearly worse than eating either alone, so time has been spent by some (i.e. remain leaning politicians) crafting olive ice-cream as the reference point for comparison. (Leavers did not need to do this as they had already beaten the second best choice of remain). As things are going the PM intends to feed us olive ice-cream whilst the majority prefer one or the other.
May 21, 2019
52/48 would have been more than enough to keep us in had it gone that way and accept all that the EU will do in future. Read the 5 Presidents Report. Remain are risking all our futures, although ‘risk’ may be the wrong word. Certainty is more likely.
May 21, 2019
I notice that Philip Hammond will be telling the CBI how bad it would be to leave the EU without a deal, as if they needed him to tell them what they already proclaim …
I wonder how he would have reacted if he had been the Chancellor in 1998 when the CBI was recommending that we should join the euro:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/120407.stm
Many Tory politicians agreed with the CBI on that, and the current Director-General Carolyn Fairbairn seems to have become a power behind the throne.
Personally I would still prefer to get the legal loose ends tied up and think it would not be the most sensible course to leave without any deal on anything whatsoever.
However as far as trade is concerned the UK government has been greatly exaggerating the economic losses if we defaulted to the existing WTO treaties, rather than agreeing a new special trade treaty with the EU.
In contrast the German government takes a much more sanguine view:
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/03/10/tuesdays-vote/#comment-1001867
They may not feel the same need to lie as the UK government.
May 21, 2019
Classic. Just the most recent and timely example of why The Brexit Party is attracting huge support from former die hard Conservative and Labour voters. There are honourable exceptions, but the existing mix within both main parties is certainly close to being beyond redemption. A huge weeding out of MPs is well overdue and will most certainly be accomplished at the next elections.
May 21, 2019
So what has happened to my post of 2 hours ago. Do you think the actions of Gordon Brown and the Electoral Commission are acceptable. What has happenened to clarity and honesty in politics. By avoiding this issue have you become an establishment trojan horse.
May 21, 2019
Dear Mr. Redwood,
I find it intriguing and perhaps disturbing that establishment figure and ex-Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, yesterday called for an investigation into the funding of the Brexit Party and lo and behold, the very next day the Electoral Commission descend on the headquarters of the party in order to conduct an investigation into where the money is coming from. What a coincidence!
Before revolting Remainers get their dander up about all registered parties being subject to laws on donations – I agree.
I wonder if the Electoral Commission will release any of their findings just in time for Thursday’s EU elections?
May 21, 2019
PS
it’s now back again is it all down to the neurotics of Captcha.
May 21, 2019
Mr. Hammond is reported to be making a speech today to the CBI (the organisation which does not list its members or declare from whom it receives its funding, although we do know some comes from the EU) where he illogically describes a “no-deal” Brexit as “hijacking Brexit”.
We are seeing the Tory High Command/a majority of Tory MPs as being so pro-EU that they are determined to stop Brexit either through Mrs. May’s new EU treaty – which is definitely not Brexit – or simply by revocation of Article 50 – both in complete contravention of the referendum result.
Such anti-democratic behaviour will be electorally unforgivable.
And even if the Tory High Command are forced to remove Mr. May through some “event” making it impossible for her to continue to be PM, they will ensure that the two new candidates for election of a replacement leader will again be two pro-EU supporters neither of whom will be acceptable to the membership.
At this point the Conservative Party will be in a hole from which they may never be able to climb out.
May 21, 2019
OR
The CBI has less than 250 members , because some members are organisations like NFU they list all NFU members as if they were also members of the CBI, they are not. there ar 5.8 million businesses in the UK the CBI represents less than 0.001% of businesses
May 21, 2019
I think we can see the way this is going. Parliament will vote down Mays deal again, May will resign and be replaced by a new PM who will at least say they prefer no deal to a bad deal. The EU will stick to its guns having won a great victory. So there will be no progress over the summer, Oct 31 will approach and again terror of the cliff edge will be invoked by Continuity Remain amplified by the bbc et al. There will be a new extension granted conditional on a second referendum which will take place some time in early 2020.
Who knows how it will turn out. There must be at least a 50% probability we will never leave, either because there’s a fair referendum and remain wins, or (more likely) because the referendum is fixed by having only Brino and remain as choices, children are given a vote etc.
What was the moment of defeat for Brexit if this happens? I think it’s the failure of Tory MPs to get rid of mrs May once it became abundantly clear how useless she is. The 17 election was the first chance, acceptance of the backstop vassal statehood was the second, and the chequers Brino plan was the third. And there have been many more since, but action came too late.
Maybe there will be another crack at it some time in the 20s after the next bout of EU integration. Better remember the lessons for next time!
May 21, 2019
I think it was lost (in this first phase) at the point Gove knifed Boris in the leadership contest and May was elected unopposed. The 17 election was a blessing is disguise really because if May had got a reasonable majority in that election she would have used it to pass the WA which she would have “negotiated” in exactly the same way.
May 21, 2019
Yes Gove’s sabotaging of Boris was surely one of the biggest political blunders of the last decade. Opened the door to May unopposed and has had a tremendous knock-on effect on the Party & the Country. Even if Gove really felt Boris would have been a poor leader, it seems likely that he would have been better than May.
May 21, 2019
Yes I agree with that. A big majority for May would have meant 5 or 10 years of her odd mixture of social democracy and nativism, as well of course as Brino.
May 21, 2019
I think Mr. Gove and Mr. Grayling and possibly others were Conservative Party remainer “plants” in the Brexit camp.
There is no other explanation for their subsequent actions after leave won.
May 21, 2019
The conventional media did not cover this debate but I and many others no longer go to the conventional media, in particular the BBC as a first port of call for our news. Your excellent blog post is one of the first things I open everyday. Can’t say it made me very happy though as I now have to do a days work to earn some of the £7bn in tax to pay for this sham of a democracy.
May 21, 2019
John Redwood and other Tory Brexit MPs must confront and challenge the intimidation being meted out to the BP. What we are seeing is Labour’s client state attacking their main political threat in the North of England
Brown’s intervention is a travesty. This man like the entire Labour party are a stain on our nation’s values and a danger to our democracy
You have moral duty to defend the BP against this disgusting intervention from the Labour-EU-Tory infected Electoral Commission
May 21, 2019
The mini manifesto of the “modernisers” in the Conservative Party (One Nation Caucus) will, I suspect, repel grassroots even more. It harps on about leading with regard to combatting global climate change, deindustrialising the economy, keeping foreign aid commitment as it is, and many more of those issues that we are all meant to be supportive of. With regard to climate change “Battling climate change must “be given equal standing with counter-terrorism,” they say..”
The Cons Party is indeed in dire straits. I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.
Nick Timothy writes about it in The Sun today, and states that it is they, the so called modernisers, who are harping back to the past and Blair days.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9117930/nick-timothy-conservative-ballots-fire-brexit/
“….All in all, it amounts to an elitist, liberal agenda. There is little to say to ordinary families concerned about job security, the cost of living, crime, immigration, housing or the quality of local services.
And of course, there is little to say about Brexit…”
This is the most wonderful opportunity to completely revamp politics and the Conservative Party. The first step will be to vote decisively in the elections this Thursday. The next will be for The Brexit Party to give us candidates for Parliament to vote for, with policies that espouse true grassroots conservatism without a shred of the left liberal/cultural Marxist policies of our so called “Conservative” government at the moment.
May 21, 2019
Are they CHUK candidates passing themselves off?
May 21, 2019
Thank goodness we have you, Sir John, and some other honourable souls to speak for us. I don’t suppose I’m alone in feeling utterly helpless – and sometimes hopeless. As no doubt do you.
May 21, 2019
Gordon Brown and his friends in the Electoral Commission are clutching at straws. The singular attack on the Brexit Party is blatant and contrived. It will backfire! No party is squeaky clean, if for no other reason than careless auditing. All those involved in this ‘put up job’ need to be held in contempt. Brown’s behaviour during the Lisbon Treaty signing off, was disgraceful; refusing to attend, then slinking off to sign the wretched thing ‘in camera’. And does anyone recall ‘endogenous growth syndrome’? He had a ‘5 minute’ lesson in economics, and forever after postured as an economist! He’s an economic illiterate, who like most remainers, wants to stay in for social and cultural reasons, like all the other ‘Emilys’ out there.
May 21, 2019
Sir John, I realise you are extremely busy trying your best to insist the vote to leave the EU is honoured, but if you were to have the time to read various political forums… Guido, Telegraph… etc you will see that there is increasing anger from the British people at how our vote is being subverted by the Conservative cabinet and Theresa May. Anti democrats are now in panic mode as The Brexit Party seek to change the inertia and deceit of this current government, and try to discredit others. I would not say that the vote on Friday is a protest vote, I would say that the British public seeing their government exposed are actually outraged and now seek radical change. Your article will surprise no one. We are being bounced into servitude. I hope you and your colleagues stand firm and oppose this treacherous treaty, but May must go, preferably today.
May 21, 2019
The Electoral Commission is trying right at this moment to disqualify the Brexit Party in the election.
May 21, 2019
Tony there will be hell to play if that happens. Are they looking into the financial affairs of other parties? No, thought not.
May 21, 2019
How is your quick, cheap and simple Brexit based on a “friendly” offer to the EU going now Sir John ?
Reply It was never tried. It would have worked well.
May 21, 2019
Siomon
Sadly because everything is run by low intellect remainers , the obvious was never tried.
The people negotiating Brexit are the same people who
1) Dont know the rules on election addresses
2) Think taking your strongest option off the table is a negotiating tactic
3) Dont understand that all parties operate limited companies
4) think political violence is acceptable if its against someone you disagree with
5) dont understand how digital marketing and paypal work
6) believe everything they see written on the side of a bus
7) have no idea about international trading and customs unions
8) have not understood that we have frictionless trade around the world due to free market technology
May 21, 2019
On the contrary, it was exactly what David Davis, and later Dominic Raab, tried. It took them all of 5 minutes to be politely advised by the EU that if you choose to leave the club, you can’t expect to continue to be treated like a member. A lesson J Redwood has yet to learn.
reply I do not wish to be treated as a member! I want to leave and end our contributions and our acceptance of EU laws.
May 21, 2019
but you also keep saying you expect the EU to continue to trade with us as it does now, without tariffs or any new barriers. THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN. You are leaving the club
May 21, 2019
Henry….You seriously think the EU people whose jobs rely on making and selling to UK are going to just give up and join the growing millions of unemployed? Don’t forget the balance of trade is that the EU needs us more than we need them. Which is why fundamentally we wish to arrange trade outside the closed shop mentality of EU trade.
May 21, 2019
did you watch the film about verhofstafdt? it was quite good – one felt some sympathy for Verfolstadt & Co due to the sheer ineptitude of the UK team. But Raab did propose exactly such a friendly offer vs no deal and was told (by the EU!) that Mrs May had already caved in on this point. so the friendly offer vs no deal route has never been tried. maybe time for another go.
May 21, 2019
Well said, Sir J.
May 21, 2019
You are of course aware the the UK Political and Administrative Establishment have moved everything in order to remaiIN EU either formally or by stealth through the PWA as a treaty?
Who in Government has attempted to accept the EU’s simple offer of an MFN-FTA ? Nobody because that would entail a simple clean break from the EU.
May 21, 2019
[…] A short Committee meeting with a big consequence […]
May 21, 2019
……………………..
The referendum vote was not the govt’s to tamper with.
Taxpayers money does not belong to them to do as they please with.
All is done in secrecy in underhand ways.
There is an unspoken agenda.
And as with my sister …nothing can stop them.
Or not until someone brave and honest fearlessly calls them out
May 21, 2019
The message from the media, most MPs the cabinet and shadow cabinet is that the WA and 2nd peoples vote is welcome and indeed the majority view of the people……..so why are they also claimimg that the Breit Party will win the euro elections ?
The government should realise that if the Breit Party win the people have again indicated that they wish for an WTO option and that they expect it to be implimented immediately
May 21, 2019
Praise for you, Sir John, in article on the Conservative Woman website:
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/what-next-none-of-the-cabinet-is-fit-to-remain-in-office/
Discusses how with a new leader Cabinet should be completely revamped, and the position of Chancellor should go to Sir John. I think many here will agree.
May 21, 2019
I agree but can’t see the party pulling back from total destruction of their own making. Its just a shame that true believers in democracy like John will have to go down with them. I can’t wait for Thursday and hope our votes speak loud and clear.
May 21, 2019
Appalling that this has not been a major story in the news and thank you Sir John and Sir William for your challenge to the bullies. Such a meeting by a desperate biased remainers govt with colossal £7bn at stake defies incredulity, insane in the private sector.
Unduly rushed undue haste by proverbial fools in a rush to kill off Brexit.
Pressurised MPs railroading decision making is blackmailing worthy of Banana republics not the mother of all parliaments.
This does not pass the litmus test of reasonableness, a key cornerstone of English law.
Headless chickens running around in ever decreasing circles and tomorrow they will discover their treacherous consequences.
May 21, 2019
Just a comment, reinforced by reading the comments here, the only people who ever say about the referendum “people didn’t know what they were voting for” are people who voted Remain.
May 21, 2019
Roll on Thursday.
May 21, 2019
Is the Electoral Commission going to investigate how the Tory, Labour, Liberal and Green Parties, and the SNP, raise their money? Check where every penny comes from? Can anyone make an allegation without evidence and the electoral commission will investigate?
May 21, 2019
The remainer establishment want to erect(if they haven’t done so already), a ‘Berlin Wall’ around the EU, with no one being allowed in and no one allowed out! If the checkpoints don’t work, you have the barbed wire, and if the barbed wire doesn’t work, there are the goon towers. Great fun can be had by pinpointing which rules and regulations correspond to each of these 3 barriers; however much more fun can be had by dismantling the wall, brick by brick, only this time the MSM are conspicuously not there with their cameras to record the events, as they don’t wish to encourage us ignorant, stupid, uneducated, right wing racists, nationalists and patriots!
May 21, 2019
Complete the defenestration of the fifth columnist software known as the Maybot.
Vote down any attempt to get MV4 to the HoC (why is Brady allowing this nonsense)?
Have the leadership rules changed to allow more than 2 to go to the membership (to prevent Rudd and co blocking the only hope you now have, Johnson).
Also – if anyone magically drop out after the last 2 are known, then allow the previous candidates to come back in i.e. if one drops out from the last 2, the 3rd-placed person comes back in. If they won’t, then the 4th and so on. If none come back then re-run the whole process. NO MORE CORONATIONS and no more conniving to thwart the will of the membership. Your party is doomed if Boris isn’t leader by summer.
Glad you see that the media are a large part of the problem here. Perhaps one of your next articles could tell us what you are proposing to do to fix this?
May 21, 2019
I can’t see what is funny when you commented that it’s a travesty of justice .Strange behaviour.
May 21, 2019
Sir John,
Can you not ee that May’s claque of Cabinet and Payrollers do not care for anything to do with democratic procedures, or for the Tory Party, – all that matters to them is to remaIN in the EU at all and every cost to the nation.
Only by splitting off from these creatures and taking the national Local Associations are you going to force the issue.
May 21, 2019
Peter Bone gets the government to confirm that the legal default is leaving without a deal. Why did Theresa May apparently lie and repeatedly tell MPs and the public that No Deal was off the table? It never was, as many of us said at the time.
https://twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/1130797796284669952
.@PeterBoneUK “Is it still the default position of the Government that on the 31st October we’ll leave on a no-deal basis if no agreement has been made?”
May 21, 2019
But now we know Mrs May is backing the second referendum
May 21, 2019
Sir John
Justing watching the PM
Sorry you need to jump ship the Tory Party are finish
The PM has just completely sold the people out
May 21, 2019
That’s it – final red line gone. And your party still hasn’t got rid of her.
May 21, 2019
In her speech Theresa May fails to point out that Labour’s demand for a comprehensive and permanent customs union with the EU is not based on positive reasons, such as facilitation of trade, but on a negative and anti-democratic determination that the UK government should never have the independent power to negotiate trade deals in case a future wicked Tory government makes a deal with the evil Americans so they can force us to eat their chlorinated chicken, and then charge us vast sums for the NHS treatment we will inevitably need as a consequence:
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/05/18/where-is-the-withdrawal-treaty-bill/#comment-1021293
“… the key thing is the government want to be able to do their own trade deals … if we have a trade deal with the United States … that could mean Trump’s America and big private healthcare corporations getting their hands on NHS contracts.”
“… despite assurances we have been given on protection of environmental, food and animal welfare standards, the International Trade Secretary has confirmed that importing chlorinated chicken as part of a US trade deal remains on the table.”
Why does Theresa May not point this out? Because behind the facade she too does not want the UK government to have the power to make independent trade deals.
May 21, 2019
What could happen maybe is there will be another referendum between remaining and the WA and remain will win. That will for remainers be the end if the matter and they will celebrate. What is the chances of this happening?
May 21, 2019
Have you decided if staying with the party is the right thing, to get change in Mrs May, Sir John? Today’s announcement from her just adds more insult to the considerable injury she has inflicted on our democracy.
I find it hard to understand how anyone who opposes her can remain loyal. At some point those who do become part of the problem, cruel as that may sound. But as long as you and others remain you provide succour and you are abused for it.
May 21, 2019
May and Corbyn. A liberal left fascist and a Marxist crawling together over the putrid, rotting corpse that is British democracy
And what do Brexit MPs do? They remain loyal to their parties while Westminster burns
May 21, 2019
This country’s democratic traditions and its institutions are an inch away from total obliteration by a client state that’s thrown away any pretence of impartiality
The State’s now infected by New Labour, Europhile parasites and the ERG REMAIN SILENT
The actions of the Electoral Commission today should send a shiver down the spines of all true democrats coupled with Brown’s intervention is nothing short of an attack on our most important national, our democracy
And still the ERG REMAIN SILENT
And May now wants a second referendum.
The ERG and all Brexit MPs have a fundamental duty to crush this attack on our democracy
May 21, 2019
As has been oft repeated, there is something rotten in the State of the UK. If neither the Conservatives nor the Labour Party nor those dubious LibDems cannot solve it, the people have no choice but select a new Party that speaks for the ordinary citizen and their aspirations, just as it used to be, multi-decades ago.
The way forward for us Brits is to “Go back to the Future”.
May 21, 2019
[…] A short Committee meeting with a big consequence […]
May 21, 2019
THank you, Sir Bill, and colleagues for this. A lot of engineering went into keeping the debate’s allocation of time short and organising a schedule clash.
I take your point about lack of coverage of this.
May 21, 2019
One thing that is very noticeable from reading your book “We don’t believe you” is how little I knew about the ERM fiasco, something I blame on relying on the BBC in those days for news. The BBC certainly has not changed, really it aught to be privatized.
I hear the latest information from the PM is that a referendum will be offered to the country. However I’m wondering if I heard it correctly since it was:
“Most importantly, if MPs back the deal in the first stage, the Commons will have the opportunity to vote on whether to hold a referendum – except it would be between May’s new deal and ‘no deal.'”
Now I would have no fear of the country picking anything but no deal, of course the sting is voting for her deal and then having the referendum vote opportunity lost. Could they combine the vote?
This referendum would be a new question and not a repetition of the first question, thus democratic, I’d guess 70-80% of the country would prefer WTO terms.